Post by: BowBender87 on June 30, 2011, 11:39:20 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 30, 2011, 11:41:42 AM
Post by: BowBender87 on June 30, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
Post by: Tbar on June 30, 2011, 11:57:12 AM
Post by: BowBender87 on June 30, 2011, 12:15:42 PM
Post by: Tbar on June 30, 2011, 01:35:07 PM
Post by: cem3434 on June 30, 2011, 04:36:38 PM
would the temp pass allow me to drive in and scout before season? I guess ive never really heard of a temp pass what all can you do with it? I couldnt find alot of information by doing the search on here or anywhere else for that matter.
They will sell one to your buddy, but not you because you didnt draw and they already sold out all of their yearly passes. If your buddy does buy one, you cant be in the vehicle with him on their property otherwise they will take his permit if they catch you guys together. I think it cost $275 for the White River Tree Farm pass, but I wouldnt waste your money.
We had bull permits in White River last year and we had a pass, but you can get to most of the good spots on Hancock's land by just riding a mountain bike. There is also a ton of FS and DNR land that hold a lot of elk.
PM me with your number and I will give you some advice.
Post by: 7mag. on June 30, 2011, 10:35:19 PM
would the temp pass allow me to drive in and scout before season? I guess ive never really heard of a temp pass what all can you do with it? I couldnt find alot of information by doing the search on here or anywhere else for that matter.
They will sell one to your buddy, but not you because you didnt draw and they already sold out all of their yearly passes. If your buddy does buy one, you cant be in the vehicle with him on their property otherwise they will take his permit if they catch you guys together. I think it cost $275 for the White River Tree Farm pass, but I wouldnt waste your money.
We had bull permits in White River last year and we had a pass, but you can get to most of the good spots on Hancock's land by just riding a mountain bike. There is also a ton of FS and DNR land that hold a lot of elk.
PM me with your number and I will give you some advice.
They are not sold out, they have over 250 left. I just bought one today. The cost is $225.00. There is a lot of country in that unit that is not private, so if money is an issue, a pass for the tree farm is not the only way to go.
Post by: BowBender87 on June 30, 2011, 11:16:08 PM
Post by: pope on June 30, 2011, 11:37:03 PM
Post by: bigtex on June 30, 2011, 11:37:29 PM
well it sounds like it should be an exciting hunt for sure. I checked out the Hancock website but didnt see where my buddy would be able to purchase a pass. Money is def not an issue, we're going to do this right and do what we have to in order to bag a good bull. So 7mag you think you can point me in the direction on to how my buddy can pick up one of these passes? If anyone has some pictures of a White River bull id love to see it.
There is no info about Hancock passes on their website. You purchase the pass at Work Sports in Enumclaw. Here is the recreational access info phone number for Hancock: 1-800-782-1493.
Post by: BowBender87 on July 01, 2011, 12:57:27 AM
well it sounds like it should be an exciting hunt for sure. I checked out the Hancock website but didnt see where my buddy would be able to purchase a pass. Money is def not an issue, we're going to do this right and do what we have to in order to bag a good bull. So 7mag you think you can point me in the direction on to how my buddy can pick up one of these passes? If anyone has some pictures of a White River bull id love to see it.
There is no info about Hancock passes on their website. You purchase the pass at Work Sports in Enumclaw. Here is the recreational access info phone number for Hancock: 1-800-782-1493.
Thanks alot man. Thats good to know. Does Work Sports carry maps for that area as well?
Post by: trophyhunt on July 01, 2011, 05:18:47 AM
Post by: MooseStock on July 01, 2011, 09:24:19 AM
Post by: bentley30-06 on July 01, 2011, 11:44:07 AM
Post by: YoterHunter on July 01, 2011, 05:56:08 PM
Post by: BowBender87 on July 01, 2011, 09:52:30 PM
The White River Unit should not be a quality elk hunt...the tribes dominate all of it and have access to it year round. Before it was a draw hunt, we were archery hunting in there and two indians laid out four elk with rifles and we were stuck with our bows. I have still had success around that area though because they do not want to get out of there trucks and glass. There is a lot of land that is accessable through the hancock land, but I wouldnt waste your money on it. Your just as likely to get a nice bull if you go up 72 road. Hit the timber and the 15-20 ft tall noble fir patches. The strong scent of those noble firs cover your stench up well and the elk up there tend to rut hard in those trees at about that age. Get up there and try to locate a bull before light and start your stock. Find wallows in the hidden timber and stick to them if they are being using in the heat of september. These are pictures of what I found up there and the bull i got archery. They are up there....there just taught to hide.
Nice bull man. Thanks for all the info guys. Going to be scoutin soon. ill try to get some good pictures of some bulls in velvet and put em up here. good luck this year
Post by: kibber on July 02, 2011, 06:52:02 AM
Post by: link on July 02, 2011, 08:16:51 AM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on July 02, 2011, 03:06:12 PM
Post by: BowBender87 on July 02, 2011, 11:19:43 PM
Gonna have to fight for the last couple bulls that are left with the indians. Good luck!
Ive heard. Atleast ill get a good work out! :chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on July 03, 2011, 01:24:41 AM
Congratulations! You'll have a great time.
Post by: Swatson on July 03, 2011, 05:41:15 AM
Post by: bigcuz on July 03, 2011, 07:54:21 AM
pm me if you have any more questions
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on July 03, 2011, 08:06:31 AM
Post by: chim-chim on July 03, 2011, 01:04:24 PM
Post by: cem3434 on July 03, 2011, 01:41:43 PM
I think the Indian season starts the 15th of September, so all of you arrow flingers show have a head start on them at least. Based on what I seen last year, the 72 and Knoble Knob area are the way to go!
Post by: danceswitharrows on July 03, 2011, 02:27:09 PM
Post by: Swatson on July 03, 2011, 03:30:12 PM
I drew this tag for the first time this year and have been scouting twice so far and have seen over a hundred elk every time that was on hancock land havent wonder over to the 72 road yet but will be doing that tuesday
Only made it about 6 or 7 miles up the 72 on Saturday. Still a lot of snow up there!
Post by: Bowtech7 on July 03, 2011, 07:36:08 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 03, 2011, 09:49:24 PM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on July 04, 2011, 10:37:56 AM
Post by: BowBender87 on July 04, 2011, 12:02:04 PM
Who is this bowbeder cat? Comes on here to dig for info? Just schittin ya Corb, I'll see if I can get any more info for ya, and let ya know next time I see ya at work. Might wanna check with Jake up in Birch, I know his brother or buddy had it the same year Matt did. Later
How else am I supposed to get on these big bulls unless i got all these great white hunters such as yourself given me there "Professional" advice. We dont all hunt at night with our 257 wby!
Post by: cem3434 on July 04, 2011, 02:28:47 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 04, 2011, 02:38:32 PM
The tribes can hunt anytime they want, all they need is something to celebrate and they can call it a ceremony hunt. The normal season for them runs Aug.1st till Feb 14th I believe.
I think the Indian season starts the 15th of September, so all of you arrow flingers show have a head start on them at least. Based on what I seen last year, the 72 and Knoble Knob area are the way to go!
Post by: JBar on July 04, 2011, 03:07:57 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 04, 2011, 03:15:26 PM
Post by: cem3434 on July 04, 2011, 06:20:39 PM
I also have a friend who works for the Muckleshoot Public Works Department and he did a little research. They are not allowed to kill cows during their season only bulls. He also told me that they only harvested 42 bulls total last year and 39 bulls the previous year.
None of us like that they basically can hunt for 4 months with any weapon, but its their right as stated under some treaty. I think that every thread about the White River unit gets hijacked due to somebody wanting to bitch about the tribe. There are a ton of elk in the unit and I bet that cougars kill more than the Indians.
I guess my point is, stop bitching or go push your elected leaders into forcing some changes. Go educate yourself on the issues, so you don't look so damn ignorant by making blanket statements like there is no elk left because the tribe killed them all. Stop hijacking the threads because all you are doing is adding fuel to a fire that has no way of burning out in the foreseeable future.
Post by: Bowtech7 on July 04, 2011, 06:41:59 PM
Post by: cem3434 on July 04, 2011, 07:29:06 PM
I think if you see a bull that is at least 280 then you should start thinking about letting an arrow fly. We seen several bulls that were 280 plus and a couple of pigs that were 330" plus. I think that you will have fun and its a big area, so just get away from the roads and you will be successful.
Let me know how the scouting is going and I will try and give you some tips or other areas to check out after you have a look around the area.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 04, 2011, 07:42:14 PM
I talked to their enforcement officer many times last year. He stated that their season starts on September 15th and each member is only allowed one bull per year. Any ceremonies that are approved by the tribe allows for additional animals to be havested, but there are only a couple of the members of the tribe that can hunt for the ceremonial kills.I would venture to say that you are the one with limited information on the tribes when it comes to hunting elk in the white river. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the mucks and the 10 other tribes that hunt there. I get my info from the warden that has over 30+ years fighting these a holes. No one said there was no elk left, and the indians do for a fact slaughter the elk in there. I think you have a *censored* for the tribes because one might be a friend and maby you want to hunt with him sometime? Not all Hate comes from rumors, most of the hate for the way the tribes hunt is from real facts. They rub it in our face and most of us hate them for it, it may be our governments fault but it's just the same old bs that will be around forever. As far as the thread getting jacked, I think he's had some good help so far. People are telling it the way it is for the most part. I would love to have the tag someday, I just hope they put it in the bull catagory where it belongs or open it to everyone and not just the tribes with a few lucky non indians to draw permits.
I also have a friend who works for the Muckleshoot Public Works Department and he did a little research. They are not allowed to kill cows during their season only bulls. He also told me that they only harvested 42 bulls total last year and 39 bulls the previous year.
None of us like that they basically can hunt for 4 months with any weapon, but its their right as stated under some treaty. I think that every thread about the White River unit gets hijacked due to somebody wanting to bitch about the tribe. There are a ton of elk in the unit and I bet that cougars kill more than the Indians.
I guess my point is, stop bitching or go push your elected leaders into forcing some changes. Go educate yourself on the issues, so you don't look so damn ignorant by making blanket statements like there is no elk left because the tribe killed them all. Stop hijacking the threads because all you are doing is adding fuel to a fire that has no way of burning out in the foreseeable future.
Post by: bigtex on July 04, 2011, 07:53:28 PM
I talked to their enforcement officer many times last year. He stated that their season starts on September 15th and each member is only allowed one bull per year. Any ceremonies that are approved by the tribe allows for additional animals to be havested, but there are only a couple of the members of the tribe that can hunt for the ceremonial kills.I would venture to say that you are the one with limited information on the tribes when it comes to hunting elk in the white river. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the mucks and the 10 other tribes that hunt there. I get my info from the warden that has over 30+ years fighting these a holes. No one said there was no elk left, and the indians do for a fact slaughter the elk in there....Not all Hate comes from rumors, most of the hate for the way the tribes hunt is from real facts. They rub it in our face and most of us hate them for it, it may be our governments fault but it's just the same old bs that will be around forever. As far as the thread getting jacked, I think he's had some good help so far. People are telling it the way it is for the most part. I would love to have the tag someday, I just hope they put it in the bull catagory where it belongs or open it to everyone and not just the tribes with a few lucky non indians to draw permits.
I also have a friend who works for the Muckleshoot Public Works Department and he did a little research. They are not allowed to kill cows during their season only bulls. He also told me that they only harvested 42 bulls total last year and 39 bulls the previous year.
None of us like that they basically can hunt for 4 months with any weapon, but its their right as stated under some treaty. I think that every thread about the White River unit gets hijacked due to somebody wanting to bitch about the tribe. There are a ton of elk in the unit and I bet that cougars kill more than the Indians.
I guess my point is, stop bitching or go push your elected leaders into forcing some changes. Go educate yourself on the issues, so you don't look so damn ignorant by making blanket statements like there is no elk left because the tribe killed them all. Stop hijacking the threads because all you are doing is adding fuel to a fire that has no way of burning out in the foreseeable future.
:yeah:
The WDFW Officer in that area is approaching 40 years as a WDFW Officer and has spent it all in that area. The White River was the first has been the worst killing area for tribal elk hunting in the entire state. The area has the most tribes in the state that hunts it however the biggest problem for that one officer (and others that have worked the area) has always been the Muckleshoot tribe.
Post by: bentley30-06 on July 05, 2011, 12:35:24 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 05, 2011, 06:33:16 AM
Thanks bigtex, that warden is a friend of the family and I have the up most respect for him. I wish he would write a book on his life's experiences, that would be a real eye opener for a lot of people. I'm not looking forward to the day he retires, we both agree that the muck's will probably go out and kill a few bulls in their celebration of it. We need to talk him into writing that book, take care.I talked to their enforcement officer many times last year. He stated that their season starts on September 15th and each member is only allowed one bull per year. Any ceremonies that are approved by the tribe allows for additional animals to be havested, but there are only a couple of the members of the tribe that can hunt for the ceremonial kills.I would venture to say that you are the one with limited information on the tribes when it comes to hunting elk in the white river. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the mucks and the 10 other tribes that hunt there. I get my info from the warden that has over 30+ years fighting these a holes. No one said there was no elk left, and the indians do for a fact slaughter the elk in there....Not all Hate comes from rumors, most of the hate for the way the tribes hunt is from real facts. They rub it in our face and most of us hate them for it, it may be our governments fault but it's just the same old bs that will be around forever. As far as the thread getting jacked, I think he's had some good help so far. People are telling it the way it is for the most part. I would love to have the tag someday, I just hope they put it in the bull catagory where it belongs or open it to everyone and not just the tribes with a few lucky non indians to draw permits.
I also have a friend who works for the Muckleshoot Public Works Department and he did a little research. They are not allowed to kill cows during their season only bulls. He also told me that they only harvested 42 bulls total last year and 39 bulls the previous year.
None of us like that they basically can hunt for 4 months with any weapon, but its their right as stated under some treaty. I think that every thread about the White River unit gets hijacked due to somebody wanting to bitch about the tribe. There are a ton of elk in the unit and I bet that cougars kill more than the Indians.
I guess my point is, stop bitching or go push your elected leaders into forcing some changes. Go educate yourself on the issues, so you don't look so damn ignorant by making blanket statements like there is no elk left because the tribe killed them all. Stop hijacking the threads because all you are doing is adding fuel to a fire that has no way of burning out in the foreseeable future.
:yeah:
The WDFW Officer in that area is approaching 40 years as a WDFW Officer and has spent it all in that area. The White River was the first has been the worst killing area for tribal elk hunting in the entire state. The area has the most tribes in the state that hunts it however the biggest problem for that one officer (and others that have worked the area) has always been the Muckleshoot tribe.
Post by: cem3434 on July 05, 2011, 08:40:48 AM
As far as Bruce goes, he has been in that area for a long time and it appears to many people that he sometimes has his own objectives. This is the opinion of many others that I know because of some decisions he has made, especially with relocating cougars closer to Enumclaw. I probably spent 30 days in the unit last year scouting and hunting and I never seen him one time. I have only ever met the guy one time about 10 years ago and he didn't say anything that pushed me into liking or disliking him.
I know the Indians killed more than the 42 bulls they reported last year, but lets not forget about our fellow white poachers. When I was hunting in there last year, we bumped into 3 (grandfather, father and son) white guys hunting during modern firearm season for elk and none of them had a permit. I had to convince them that the season had been closed in there for years and was permit only. They told me that they had never stopped hunting in that area and never were aware of the closure. If we are so ignorant to think that the Indians are the only ones poaching elk, then same on us.
Like I said before, I understand that you and many other members have been fighting with the tribes for along time and NOBODY likes the fact that they basically have a private hunting reserve. This is obviously a very touchy issue with you and several others on this site, so take all of your anger and try to figure out how to make your elected officials work for you. I do agree with you that if WDFW isn't going to properly patrol the unit, then re-open it to everyone and don't just let the Indians kill the majority of the bulls in the unit.
I also agree that any hunter that has this tag should be informed about the tribes going on killing sprees in the unit, especially during the rut. WDFW should up there patrols in units like the White River where the Indians hunt. In all of my time scouting and hunting last year, I only ever seen one DNR patrol officer and the Muckleshoot enforcement officer several times. The lack of patrol is one of the biggest problems and this is something you could probably do something about if you called your elected officials enough. :twocents:
Post by: trophyhunt on July 05, 2011, 12:47:07 PM
Like I said before, I understand that you and many other members have been fighting with the tribes for along time and NOBODY likes the fact that they basically have a private hunting reserve. This is obviously a very touchy issue with you and several others on this site, so take all of your anger and try to figure out how to make your elected officials work for you. I do agree with you that if WDFW isn't going to properly patrol the unit, then re-open it to everyone and don't just let the Indians kill the majority of the bulls in the unit.
I with you on this statement, but with the money the tribes throw at the politicians our voice will always fall on deaf ears. As far as the wardens objectives, I can't and wouldn't speak for him but I'm pretty sure it would be a life long dream of his and many, many others in this state if we could all be seen as equals in the field and on the water.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 05, 2011, 01:17:03 PM
Post by: cem3434 on July 05, 2011, 05:25:55 PM
I do piss people off and that's not what I'm intending to do, this subject is the most important to myself and other hunters that I hunt with. Not to mention a few guys on this web site. The white river is my favorite unit in this state mostly because it's where I grew up in as far as my hunting life goes. And it used to be over the counter for years, if I could hunt the blues everyear for big bulls then that would be my favorite by far. So I don't mean to be personall it's just my fav spot and when indians do what they want in their it eats at my core, and a few others. No bad feelings intended.
I know no bad feelings were intended on your behalf and I hope no bad feelings came across on my behalf. I think we are on the same page with our thoughts on the Indians hunting this area the way they do, but you have obviously have had more run ins with them than I have.
On a side note to all of you guys that drew this tag, trophyhunt and bigtex gave me a lot of useful information when I was trying to learn the unit last year. If they offer up any information to you guys, then you should probably heed to their advice.
Post by: bigtex on July 05, 2011, 07:03:44 PM
As far as Bruce goes, he has been in that area for a long time and it appears to many people that he sometimes has his own objectives. This is the opinion of many others that I know because of some decisions he has made, especially with relocating cougars closer to Enumclaw. I probably spent 30 days in the unit last year scouting and hunting and I never seen him one time. I have only ever met the guy one time about 10 years ago and he didn't say anything that pushed me into liking or disliking him.
I do agree with you that if WDFW isn't going to properly patrol the unit, then re-open it to everyone and don't just let the Indians kill the majority of the bulls in the unit.
WDFW should up there patrols in units like the White River where the Indians hunt. In all of my time scouting and hunting last year, I only ever seen one DNR patrol officer and the Muckleshoot enforcement officer several times. The lack of patrol is one of the biggest problems and this is something you could probably do something about if you called your elected officials enough. :twocents:
WDFW does patrol the White River unit quite a bit actually. As many of you know the unit is very large and has a ton of logging/forest roads, so actually running into any officer can be rare unless its at a check station. Cem, I think you may be wrong about the DNR Officer, there is basically no DNR land in the White River unit, I think you may have seen the USFS Officer (White pickup with green stripes)
The White River unit has two "main" landowners, Hancock Timber and USFS. Hancock has an agreement with WDFW Enforcement in that WDFW must patrol atleast 600 (the number I last heard) hours of Hancock lands in Pierce and King Counties (White River, Snoqualmie, Kapowsin and Eatonville Farms) and Hancock pays WDFW for this service. WDFW always goes beyond this number. Pierce County sheriff and the local USFS Officer who is a commissioned Pierce County Deputy also patrols the Hancock lands in Pierce County. So there is actually quite a bit of enforcement/patrol activity on the White River tree farm, and Bruce probably does the most patrol time on any Hancock lands in this state, and nearly all of that being on the White River.
But like I said in the beginning, just because you haven't seen a WDFW Officer doesn't mean they aren't there, the unit is big and has a ton of roads.