Post by: Curly on July 07, 2011, 08:03:02 AM
Post by: gasman on July 07, 2011, 08:11:16 AM
Personllay, I don't care. They are there, and it is likely that they could have migrated.
Am I happy they are there? No, not at all :bash:
Post by: Machias on July 07, 2011, 08:11:53 AM
Post by: CedarPants on July 07, 2011, 08:13:06 AM
Well two points, if the DNA results say they are the Large version from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming then I say there's a damn good chance of it. If however they are the smaller version that's come down from BC, what's to say they are not the wolves that were supposedly poached near Twisp? They keep saying that pack went from 12 to 15 animals to 2, what's to say they did not just up and move?
Exactly
Post by: Curly on July 07, 2011, 10:41:22 AM
Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.
Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state. Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.
Post by: Machias on July 07, 2011, 11:24:51 AM
It's been almost 20 years now since I saw wolves near Wenatchee Lake. I always assumed those wolves traveled from Canada to get there. It's not all that far from Wenatchee Lake to the Teanaway, so why would it be so hard to believe that wolves from Canada could end up in Teanaway???
Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.
Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state. Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.
It's not hard to believe that at all, in fact, if I was a betting man that's what I would conclude.....unless they are the wolves from ID, MT and WY....then I think they got a ride.
Think about this, the smaller BC wolf will not be able to withstand the colonization of the wolves from ID, MT and WY. In other words an invasive species will wipe out a native species.
Post by: meathunter on July 07, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
Meat
Post by: Goomsba on July 07, 2011, 01:15:15 PM
Well two points, if the DNA results say they are the Large version from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming then I say there's a damn good chance of it. If however they are the smaller version that's come down from BC, what's to say they are not the wolves that were supposedly poached near Twisp? They keep saying that pack went from 12 to 15 animals to 2, what's to say they did not just up and move?
Exactly
:yeah:
Post by: grundy53 on July 07, 2011, 01:18:16 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 07, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
It's been almost 20 years now since I saw wolves near Wenatchee Lake. I always assumed those wolves traveled from Canada to get there. It's not all that far from Wenatchee Lake to the Teanaway, so why would it be so hard to believe that wolves from Canada could end up in Teanaway???
Now, with that said, I also think it is possible that some wolf lover types maybe did drop off some wolves to help try to get them established.
Maybe I am naive, but I just don't see WDFW doing any sort of sanctioned wolf planting anywhere in the state. Granted they have been infiltrated with a bunch of predator loving people, but I just have a hard time believing they would risk planting wolves; it seems like it would be very hard for a public agency like that to keep plantings secret.
It's not hard to believe that at all, in fact, if I was a betting man that's what I would conclude.....unless they are the wolves from ID, MT and WY....then I think they got a ride.
Think about this, the smaller BC wolf will not be able to withstand the colonization of the wolves from ID, MT and WY. In other words an invasive species will wipe out a native species.
NO doubt on that!!!
Post by: whacker1 on July 07, 2011, 03:31:09 PM
I don't think WDFW planted them. But I wouldn't be surprised if conservation northwest did....
:yeah: or some other group.
Post by: Dave Workman on July 07, 2011, 04:49:07 PM
The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.
If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
:IBCOOL:
Post by: whacker1 on July 07, 2011, 06:42:44 PM
You guys... sheesh.
The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.
If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
:IBCOOL:
What do you mean, we can't know as they havenever tried to enhance an animal population.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on July 07, 2011, 07:17:09 PM
You guys... sheesh.
The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.
If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
:IBCOOL:
:yeah:
I don't know if WDFW is directly involved in releasing wolves. I am not sure what would happen if it were ever directly proven that they have or that they did. I'd venture nothing. USDFW has been caught and it proven that they plant evidence to farther thier ESA agendas. So no, I don't trust them, either of them. They work behind the scene with C NW & DFW, that is my opinion. I don't believe those groups are up to any good. They so desperately want a massive wolf presence in Washington. They do not care what the consequence of their actions will be. It will be interesting if the wolves go West instead of East. The question is will WDFW relocate them outside of King County. While those folkes demand all these programs I'd venture they would never allow them in their lives to be impacted. Maybe I am wrong there. We will see.
Post by: danderson on July 08, 2011, 07:36:50 AM
the following year moose reports with pictures confirmed that moose were moving into the valley, I know of at least 4 different moose now with one being born this year, point is we dont know what the WDFG is up to, who else has access to radio collars.
Post by: whacker1 on July 08, 2011, 08:22:13 AM
About 3 years ago a friend of mine told me about 2 cow moose that he spotted in the teanaway both with radio collars on, at that time there had not been any reported siting in our valley, so most folks figured that he saw cow elk instead,
the following year moose reports with pictures confirmed that moose were moving into the valley, I know of at least 4 different moose now with one being born this year, point is we dont know what the WDFG is up to, who else has access to radio collars.
tribes, W.S.U., and likely other institutions.
Post by: bearpaw on July 08, 2011, 08:47:48 AM
However, when you consider the recent Fast & Furious scandal in BATF of selling guns to drug cartels, then think of the misapropriation of funds by USFWS that was exposed in congress by Jim Beers and was used to fund wolf introduction in Idaho/YNP, then look at the ties that Defenders of Wildlife and Conservation Northwest have with the WDFW. No wonder nobody trusts the state on wolf management.
Has anybody been keeping a head count at wolf haven. :chuckle:
Post by: Heartsblood on July 08, 2011, 10:06:38 AM
Post by: Cougeyes on July 08, 2011, 11:58:25 AM
Post by: Alchase on July 08, 2011, 12:07:18 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/fieldnotes/2015546358_summer_research_counting_wolf_pups_and_hunting_grizzly_bear_hair.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/fieldnotes/2015546358_summer_research_counting_wolf_pups_and_hunting_grizzly_bear_hair.html)
My question of how many more "not yet called packs" are they observing and tracking?
Post by: jackmaster on July 08, 2011, 12:14:38 PM
:yeah: if they werent directly resposible, then they damn sure know who is....You guys... sheesh.
The WDFW obviously didn't dump these animals.
If the WDFW tried to enhance an animal population, they'd never survive.
:IBCOOL:
:yeah:
I don't know if WDFW is directly involved in releasing wolves. I am not sure what would happen if it were ever directly proven that they have or that they did. I'd venture nothing. USDFW has been caught and it proven that they plant evidence to farther thier ESA agendas. So no, I don't trust them, either of them. They work behind the scene with C NW & DFW, that is my opinion. I don't believe those groups are up to any good. They so desperately want a massive wolf presence in Washington. They do not care what the consequence of their actions will be. It will be interesting if the wolves go West instead of East. The question is will WDFW relocate them outside of King County. While those folkes demand all these programs I'd venture they would never allow them in their lives to be impacted. Maybe I am wrong there. We will see.
Post by: UBA on July 08, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Post by: colockumelk on July 09, 2011, 08:27:48 AM
Someone fitted them with collars so someone knows where they came from or trapped. I think someone dumped um off prefitted with radio collars and waited til now to confirm a pack. If they did migrate in look at all the great land they traveled thru to get there. Why did they choose that area? Well because that's where they opened the cage.
:yeah:
Post by: turbo on July 11, 2011, 12:07:16 PM
I will kill any wolf I see!
Post by: dreamunelk on July 11, 2011, 08:53:16 PM
As for the special interest groups, well they seem to get away with everything!
Post by: grundy53 on July 11, 2011, 11:04:49 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on July 12, 2011, 08:27:45 AM
The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack. Good for them. We should be thrilled that they're doing something.
Post by: Arrow on July 12, 2011, 10:10:23 AM
The below pictures are from northern ID. Notice how they corner the elk in a spot where she is traped with nowhere to go and the one wolf on her back. These are very smart and big animals especially when they are in a pack.
Post by: bearpaw on July 12, 2011, 10:20:33 AM
I have yet to see any indication that WDFW wants to work with local people. Their endangered species division appears to be controlled by Defenders of Wildlife and similar organizations. The wolf plan that has been presented is based on a lot of disneylike wolf propaganda based on the Isle Royal model of wolf biology. Guess what, Isle Royal wolves have eaten themselves into extinction, they are down to 2 female wolves and its questionable if wolves will die out comppletely.
WDFW should talk to the Idaho F&G about their on the ground experience with wolves to develop the WA wolf plan. Our Wildlife Commission should be talking with Idaho's commission. Those commissioners have seen first hand what happens with wolf mismanagement. :twocents:
They made a big deal about the peer review of the washington wolf plan, nobody knows who any of those people even are, it should have been peer reviewed by biologists familiar with recent game management in Idaho, Montana, and Canada.
Post by: jackelope on July 12, 2011, 11:03:56 AM
I have yet to see any indication that WDFW wants to work with local people. Their endangered species division appears to be controlled by Defenders of Wildlife and similar organizations. The wolf plan that has been presented is based on a lot of disneylike wolf propaganda based on the Isle Royal model of wolf biology. Guess what, Isle Royal wolves have eaten themselves into extinction, they are down to 2 wolves and its questionable if wolves will die out comppletely.
Do you have a source for this info?
Post by: Cougeyes on July 12, 2011, 11:56:25 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 12, 2011, 11:56:49 AM
http://www.northlandoutdoors.com/event/article/id/195189/publisher_ID/36/ (http://www.northlandoutdoors.com/event/article/id/195189/publisher_ID/36/)
Isle Royale pack down to 2 female wolves
Moose numbers are stable but still half of the long-term average.
By: John Myers, Duluth News Tribune
Several members of an Isle Royale wolf pack in this 2006 photo include the immigrant male wolf (the gray wolf in the middle right) along with his radio-collared daughter and mate wolf on the far right. The single male, which crossed to the island in 1997, has 22 offspring, 34 grand-offspring and is responsible for 56 percent of the gene pool among island wolves. (Photo courtesy Michigan Technological University)
One wolf is responsible for more than half of Isle Royale pack’s genes
The number of wolves roaming on Lake Superior’s Isle Royale has dwindled to just 16 with only two breeding females — a population level researchers say may not be sustainable much longer.
If the two remaining mating females were to die before raising female pups, the wolf population could be headed to extinction.
That’s the report released Tuesday from researchers at Michigan Technological University who have been studying moose on the island for 53 years, considered among the longest-running predator-prey studies in the world.
“The situation is kind of precarious,” said John Vucetich, the Michigan Tech professor who leads the research effort. “Every wolf has a 25 percent chance of dying in any given year, so we could lose those remaining females at any time.”
The 16 wolves counted this winter are down from 19 last year and 24 in 2009.
Once numbering as many as 50, with seven packs, the wolves are down to one pack.
Vucetich said the sex ratio should be close to 50-50 “and it’s been 40 years since we only had one pack. So we have three big issues that are working against them.”
“But it’s always been precarious,” said Rolf Peterson, former head of the Isle Royale research who is still involved in the island study, noting that the average population size is only 24.
The scientists acknowledge that National Park Service policy for the island favors a hands-off, natural management. But they say the Park Service should consider introducing wolves to help reduce inbreeding and bolster the population.
“There’s no formal policy that says they shouldn’t step in toward genetic rescue. But it’s an option we think they should at least take a look at,” Vucetich said. “Is it better for the wilderness or for the park if wolves go extinct? Or should something be done to keep wolves on the island? We are getting close to that decision.”
Isle Royale National Park officials could not be reached Tuesday afternoon for comment.
With no new wolves entering the population, inbreeding appears to be affecting the island wolves’ ability to reproduce and thrive. Researchers in 2009 confirmed that inbreeding is causing wolf deformities such as weak vertebrae. A spinal deformity has been found in 100 percent of wolf skeletons tested.
Wolves crossed ice and first came to the island about 1950. Wolf numbers have ranged from a low of 11 in 1993 to a high of 50 in 1980.
Moose numbers up
Scientists say the moose population appears to be slowly recovering after their numbers bottomed out a few years ago. They counted 515 moose during this winter’s count, up from 510 last year and the year before.
Moose calves on the island were larger this winter, and the fat content of bone marrow indicates that adult moose are better nourished now. The scientists have spotted three sets of twins in the past two years, the first twins since 2005. Winter ticks, which posed a severe threat to the Isle Royale moose in 2007, have declined significantly since then.
Researchers say moose appear to have hit bottom at 385 in 2007, though their numbers remain less than half their historic, long-term average. Scientists speculate that warmer weather has spurred parasites and other problems for the moose.
“We’ve been thinking they are about to pull out of their really low period. And the habitat has rebounded, with lower moose numbers, so there’s lots of food for them to eat,” Vucetich said. “If they don’t come back stronger fairly soon, then the impact (from climate change) may be bigger than we had previously thought.”
Moose came to the island around 1900, peaking at 2,445 in 1995.
Scientists were on the island from January to March, counting and studying wolves and moose.
Isle Royale, a U.S. National Park, sits about 15 miles from Grand Portage off Minnesota’s North Shore and is primarily a wilderness area. It’s a nearly controlled natural environment because there is only one predator — wolves — and only one major prey — moose — with no deer, bear or human hunters involved.
Post by: Cougeyes on July 12, 2011, 12:04:11 PM
Post by: Machias on July 12, 2011, 02:32:02 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 12, 2011, 07:46:23 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false)
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
Unfortunately Isle Royale is often cited in wolf research, here's an example:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuSSbiGgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=wolf+additive&source=bl&ots=cOa01qoZn8&sig=V-7PusYxbrnkag-BTPu7Pdk_6fA&hl=en&ei=wQAdTtSDJYi6sAOC5Zi7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=wolf%20additive&f=false)
This is likely because it's such a closed environment and because it's "easy".
Quote
Isle Royale’s biogeography is well suited for thehttp://www.isleroyalewolf.org/wolfhome/home_files/Annual%20Report%202011%20color.pdf (http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/wolfhome/home_files/Annual%20Report%202011%20color.pdf)
project’s goals. That is, Isle Royale’s wolves and
moose are isolated, unable to leave. The population
fluctuations we observe are due primarily to births and
deaths, not the mere wanderings of wolves and moose
to or from the island. Nature is difficult to understand
because it usually includes interactions among so
many species. So it helps to observe where ecological
relationships are relatively simple. On Isle Royale,
wolves are the only predator of moose, and moose are
essentially the only food for wolves. To understand
nature it also helps to observe an ecosystem where
human impact is limited. On Isle Royale, people do not
hunt wolves or moose or cut the forest.
That article is neat to read. I assume the detail in that article is the #1 reason that people keep referring to that place...it's seemingly good info but in reality it's not.
Post by: MtnMuley on July 13, 2011, 01:47:08 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2011, 01:55:06 PM
Post by: CedarPants on July 13, 2011, 01:56:30 PM
This topics title should be changed to " Did Conservation Northwest Plant Wolves in the Teanaway?".
Agreed
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2011, 02:00:54 PM
http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/rescue (http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/rescue)
Post by: briancorneal on July 13, 2011, 02:08:07 PM
Post by: Curly on July 13, 2011, 05:07:19 PM
This topics title should be changed to " Did Conservation Northwest Plant Wolves in the Teanaway?".
Here you go. :tup:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,79574.new.html#new (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,79574.new.html#new)
Post by: pjmcbride on July 19, 2011, 12:37:09 PM
Post by: Lowedog on July 19, 2011, 06:16:18 PM
you guys have been saying that wolves were in the area for a long time...why would there be a conspiracy theory now?
The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack. Good for them. We should be thrilled that they're doing something.
:yeah:
There have been threads on here in past years where people talked about wolf sightings in the Teanaway. I know a guy who claims to have seen one real close to there 2 or 3 years ago. I remember my mom saying she saw a wolf on Blewett pass about 5 years ago. I also know a guy who lives right on the Teanaway River who said he had wolves after his chickens in his yard 10 years ago.
WDFW finally confirms a pack there and now it is a big conspiracy like they just showed up over night. :dunno:
Post by: Wenatcheejay on July 19, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
you guys have been saying that wolves were in the area for a long time...why would there be a conspiracy theory now?
The WDFW responded to wolf sightings and got a collar in the pack. Good for them. We should be thrilled that they're doing something.
:yeah:
There have been threads on here in past years where people talked about wolf sightings in the Teanaway. I know a guy who claims to have seen one real close to there 2 or 3 years ago. I remember my mom saying she saw a wolf on Blewett pass about 5 years ago. I also know a guy who lives right on the Teanaway River who said he had wolves after his chickens in his yard 10 years ago.
WDFW finally confirms a pack there and now it is a big conspiracy like they just showed up over night. :dunno:
I think we all know there are wolves all over Washington. The frustration is how they confirm wolves. There could be 100,000 wolves in washington but until the proper authority says there have been 15 confirmed packs that have been confirmed to breed in the same place for three years it does not matter. It is the willful stupidity of our WDFW and all the wolf loving people that piss people off. There is no conspiracy, there is no paranoia. There are facts, they are just ignored.
Post by: rtspring on July 19, 2011, 07:32:03 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 19, 2011, 07:47:41 PM
Post by: pjmcbride on July 19, 2011, 09:49:15 PM
Post by: Miles on July 19, 2011, 10:11:44 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yobeat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2FComputer-Addict.jpg&hash=7754ad8dbc2d16e7f5f0c7adb05785e0e36b7cf2)