Post by: Jerbear on July 20, 2011, 10:09:13 PM
About 2-3 weeks ago, Gun Owners of America emailed me and many others, requesting that we sign a prewritten letter and they would forward it to our senators. This letter ask the Senators to sign a letter opposing any U.N. treaty that infringes on the Second Amendment. Thirty signed. They need 34 to defeat it, and they got 30. Yes the menopause twins from WA State did not sign.
If someone on this site could post the letter from GOA it would be appreciated. I don't know how.
Last week the so called UN "preparatory committee" for the third time to work on the massive Arms Trade Treaty (ATT).
Few details of the treaty have been made public, but here are some.
Require gun owner registration
Require ammunition microstamping
Defines manufacturing so broad that any gunowner who adds so much as a scope or changes the stock on a firearm would be required to obtain a manufacturing license.
Issue a ban on some types of semi-auto weapons
Include a ban on 50 cal weapons.
demand the mandatory destruction of surplus ammo and confiscated weapons.
Ofcourse we know that the Oboma administration will try to include all the anti gun things that they have not been able to pass through congress.
The deadline for a final version of the treaty is July 1212.
Australia didn't think it would happen.
Where is the N.R.A. on this issue. Proably in the 80 million dollar firing range Harry Reid helped them get funds for in Nevada, listening to Barb Streisand bad mouth George Bush.
Post by: jyerxa on July 20, 2011, 10:18:17 PM
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on July 20, 2011, 10:27:15 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on July 20, 2011, 10:30:36 PM
I have heard lots of talk about this. And I do not think gun owners will stand for it. We are different from these other countries in that we have it in our Bill of Rights. Not saying they will not try it. If any thing could cause a civil war the right to Keep and Bare could do it. :twocents:
Post by: Jerbear on July 20, 2011, 10:54:28 PM
GOA sent emails or letters out to ALL members. I will ask again, what did the NRA do? Wayne on the radio or television does not contact all the membership.
The NRA has a lot of good members. The upper management has thrown them under the bus on several occasions as of late.
So lets just say I did not say anything about the NRA. What are you thoughts on on over riding the Second Amendment, and be regulated by the U.N.
Ghosthunter you are right. We will not take it.
Post by: grundy53 on July 21, 2011, 06:02:48 AM
Semper Fi my friend and fellow Marine, I have proably done more research in my 72 years than you can imagine. Want to see proof. I have letters back to Scoop Jackson and Warren Magnuson, and that my friend was proably before you were born.
GOA sent emails or letters out to ALL members. I will ask again, what did the NRA do? Wayne on the radio or television does not contact all the membership.
The NRA has a lot of good members. The upper management has thrown them under the bus on several occasions as of late.
So lets just say I did not say anything about the NRA. What are you thoughts on on over riding the Second Amendment, and be regulated by the U.N.
Ghosthunter you are right. We will not take it.
Wayne wasn't on the radio or television. He was in front of the U.N. deligates. testifying that the American people will not stand for this. Probably a little more convincing then some letters....
Post by: BobW on July 21, 2011, 06:10:41 AM
Post by: MikeWalking on July 21, 2011, 06:36:38 AM
As far as the Micro stamping goes.. :dunno: I've heard some interesting arguments against that based on monopoly issues. Need another reason to hate Seattle? The whole issue came about when the Seatle based engineers that created the technology couldn't sell licenses to use it to gun makers so they hired lobbyist to make it a law to buy their product.. :crap:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 21, 2011, 09:48:21 AM
"We the people are just as much a check and balance"
and that is what the second amendment is for.
While we are stuck with Murray for over 5 more years. Washington is the "check" of common sense!
cantwell must go out with obama Nov 2012
Post by: jyerxa on July 21, 2011, 10:11:25 AM
Don’t know what to do about this mess. It’s gone to far.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 21, 2011, 10:26:49 AM
Post by: Heartsblood on July 21, 2011, 12:14:57 PM
I don't post here much, and this kind of thing is why. I researched this a couple years ago. This is intended to make it hard on terrorists. The UN cannot change our constitution. A little digging on the internet and you would find this out also. They are not going to take our guns and any orginization that tries to tell you other wise is trying to make a little hay for themselves. Flame on guys.:yeah:
Whenever a democrat is the president these stories come out of the woodwork. Microchips! Primers! Our guns! Oh my! There's no place like home.... There's no place like home.... There's no place like home.... There's no place like home.... There's no place like home....
:tinfoil:
Post by: Special T on July 21, 2011, 12:21:48 PM
Post by: frostman on July 21, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
You guys need to get a grip! This is not about terrorists! This is about the world community trying to bring down The United States of America! If obama and his lap dogs like murray & c*ntwell and ALL OF THE CANDY ASS LIBERALS have their way they would sell us out to the UN in a heartbeat! Only problem is the citizenry is armed!
Do not be so naive as to think that this is actually some kind of "anti-terrorism" measure or that democrats like obama are in favor of your 2nd amendment rights. These crazy liberals think us gun-toting bubbas are terrorists.
We should NEVER concede ANY of our gun rights, EVER to ANY country or world body.
Just think for a minute - What would this world be like if there were no America?
Post by: Heartsblood on July 21, 2011, 01:53:36 PM
Post by: Machias on July 21, 2011, 02:09:17 PM
BobW: This is intended to make it hard on terrorists.
http://nation.foxnews.com/terrorism/2011/07/21/dhs-characterizes-terrorists-white-americans (http://nation.foxnews.com/terrorism/2011/07/21/dhs-characterizes-terrorists-white-americans)
Post by: Heartsblood on July 21, 2011, 02:29:09 PM
The Un cannot change our constitution.
A little research would verufy that fact.
No one is coming for our guns.
Someone is benefiting from the fear mongering of this issue.
Those are the points I meant the :yeah: for.
"Look to see who benefits..." and then we begin to see the true motives for such fear piece that seems to crop up every 8 years or so, and last equally as long...
Post by: Heartsblood on July 21, 2011, 02:41:49 PM
Quote
This is not about politics...:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on July 21, 2011, 04:21:04 PM
Semper Fi my friend and fellow Marine, I have proably done more research in my 72 years than you can imagine. Want to see proof. I have letters back to Scoop Jackson and Warren Magnuson, and that my friend was proably before you were born.
GOA sent emails or letters out to ALL members. I will ask again, what did the NRA do? Wayne on the radio or television does not contact all the membership.
The NRA has a lot of good members. The upper management has thrown them under the bus on several occasions as of late.
So lets just say I did not say anything about the NRA. What are you thoughts on on over riding the Second Amendment, and be regulated by the U.N.
Ghosthunter you are right. We will not take it.
Semper Fi devil I was simply stating that the NRA has been proactive on this issue up to, and including standing up to the UN in person. There are many of our brothers, and sisters in arms that gave their lives to protect this great nation we need to honor them by standing up for the ideals that they died for one of which is the second amendment. The sharp words were meant for anyone who is reading this that complains about what goes on in our government, and its dealings with the UN while sitting at home on election day.
Post by: Jerbear on July 21, 2011, 06:31:15 PM
You are right about not voting. Maria Can't do anything well, is a classic example. We had Slade Gorton, a hard working pro gun Senator. People sat on the butts on election day, and look what we have.
I have voted in every election since 1960. You had to be 21 to vote back then. I have not missed an election since then. I have written many letters to out elected officials,n and just went back and read some of them. Sad situation.
I wrote to Jackson, Magnuson, and our local Congress person, representing the Yakima area, Catherine May. She was a Republican. All three assures me that they would study the 1967 Gun Control act and vote for the good of the people. All three voted for it. And today, so far, the Republicans have not come up with someone to run against Maria. It just can't get any better. :IBCOOL:
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on July 21, 2011, 08:20:39 PM
Post by: dawei on July 21, 2011, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: frostman
This is not about terrorists! This is about the world community trying to bring down The United States of America! If obama and his lap dogs like murray & c*ntwell and ALL OF THE CANDY ASS LIBERALS have their way they would sell us out to the UN in a heartbeat! Only problem is the citizenry is armed!I am also 100% in agreement with frostman. This fight, and I truly believe it is coming; is not about our freedom - IT IS ABOUT OUR LIBERTY! The sooner we can elect a CONSERVATIVE government the better we will be.
Do not be so naive as to think that this is actually some kind of "anti-terrorism" measure or that democrats like obama are in favor of your 2nd amendment rights. These crazy liberals think us gun-toting bubbas are terrorists.
We should NEVER concede ANY of our gun rights, EVER to ANY country or world body.
Just think for a minute - What would this world be like if there were no America?
Post by: weasel on July 22, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
Treaty." i think treaties must be ratified by 2/3 of Senate or House. Massive noncompliance...Sorry about the rant..
Post by: Special T on July 22, 2011, 01:02:03 PM
Post by: BobW on July 24, 2011, 04:47:11 PM
Post by: BobW on July 24, 2011, 08:28:31 PM
I want you to know my dad in a WWII vet, and a disabled koran war vet, a life long hunter and fisherman, and a liberal. I really resent comments like "CANDY ASSED LIBERALS" he saved 14 GIs throwing a granade out of a foxhole, it took his left hand. I would like to say all he got was a silver star but hay this was the 50's.
Point is all liberals are not anti gun or anti hunting.
Post by: TheHunt on July 24, 2011, 09:59:55 PM
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on July 25, 2011, 04:59:13 AM
Post by: grundy53 on July 25, 2011, 05:34:17 AM
Bob was your dad a liberatarian, or a liberal? Some dont realize there is a big difference there, and if he was pro gun, pro hunting than he would hardly fit in the pro gay marraige, pro abortion, pro gun control, pro animal rights, anti military liberal agenda of today. The use of the word liberal to define the so called progressive, neo-socialist is a much newer term than liberatarian which many think are the same the true liberatarian have much more in common with the right rather than the left.
Or even a Democrat. Back then Democrats were not liberals. Atleast not like we know them today. The progressive movement infiltrated the Democratic party and made it what it is today. So it wasn't bad to be a democrat back in the day.
Post by: BobW on July 25, 2011, 06:08:24 AM
Post by: BobW on July 25, 2011, 06:13:06 AM
ON one point you mentioned, abortion should be between the women, her doctor, and her god. You or me or the government shouldn't have one damn thing to say about it.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 25, 2011, 05:16:29 PM
Frostman
I want you to know my dad in a WWII vet, and a disabled koran war vet, a life long hunter and fisherman, and a liberal. I really resent comments like "CANDY ASSED LIBERALS" he saved 14 GIs throwing a granade out of a foxhole, it took his left hand. I would like to say all he got was a silver star but hay this was the 50's.
Point is all liberals are not anti gun or anti hunting.
As mine was USN 1934-1954 Chief gunners mate WWII Pacific,and Korea. This is a pic of his last "Tin Can" He also voted straight party lines. Lost him years ago. I can say with certainty that he wouldn't be voting that way now. Hell yeah I have voted for Scoop Jackson, Maggie, and Dixie Lee Ray (until Baghdad Jim beat her in the 1980 primary) in my time. But you will not find me voting for ANY of the three to the Left over there.
As for this;
Point is all liberals are not anti gun or anti hunting.
the people that run that party now sure seem to be.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From another thread in This topic
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,80263.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,80263.0.html)
Obama Nominates Anti-gun Activist to Country’s Second Most Important Court
Monday, 25 July 2011 10:41
In case you were thinking that Barack Obama’s hatred of the Second Amendment was subsiding, Obama has now nominated -- to the country’s second-highest court -- an avid leader in the effort to destroy firearms manufacturers using frivolous litigation.
The nomination of Caitlin Halligan -- formerly the solicitor general of New York -- to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals would put a rabid anti-gun activist in a position where she could do maximum damage to the Second Amendment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry M Jackson was considered a "Hawk" How many politicians with a "D" beside their name could be considered that now?
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on July 25, 2011, 07:11:50 PM
By the way both of us are a little more old fashioned than that. All the pro this and anti that came about after the 60s and 70s and as far as I'm concerned has wrecked both parties. There used to be moderets on both sides.
ON one point you mentioned, abortion should be between the women, her doctor, and her god. You or me or the government shouldn't have one damn thing to say about it.
On the abortion thing I would have to strongly disagree the women made her choice at inception a child is not a choice it is a life. If I chose to kill any human being in a civil society I would expect to be punished to the full extent of the law. You may not consider a fetus a child that is your opinion I consider it a child the day it is concieved, and I dare say I would not want to answer to St. Peter on the murder of a defenseless child. You may consider this a extreme point of view that loses the right votes I am of the opinion murder of the most innocent, and defenseless in our society is a travesty. I too served my country murder is not a right I signed on to protect.
Post by: b.roberts on July 25, 2011, 07:43:21 PM
I don't post here much, and this kind of thing is why. I researched this a couple years ago. This is intended to make it hard on terrorists. The UN cannot change our constitution. A little digging on the internet and you would find this out also. They are not going to take our guns and any orginization that tries to tell you other wise is trying to make a little hay for themselves. Flame on guys.
You are probably right not worrying about this since it isn't going to get ratified in the senate. However, a signed and ratified treaty is equal to the constitution as far as jurisprudence is concerned. If a treaty were passed that violated a portion of our constitution, the treaty would probably supercede the constitution.
Post by: Machias on July 26, 2011, 10:39:36 AM
By the way both of us are a little more old fashioned than that. All the pro this and anti that came about after the 60s and 70s and as far as I'm concerned has wrecked both parties. There used to be moderets on both sides.
ON one point you mentioned, abortion should be between the women, her doctor, and her god. You or me or the government shouldn't have one damn thing to say about it.
I saw a good bumper sticker, had a photo of a baby and a photo of a baby seal and said guess which one is protected. Sure the doc, the woman and God have a say, I guess in your world the baby has no say? :dunno:
Post by: frostman on July 26, 2011, 06:33:13 PM
Frostman
I want you to know my dad in a WWII vet, and a disabled koran war vet, a life long hunter and fisherman, and a liberal. I really resent comments like "CANDY ASSED LIBERALS" he saved 14 GIs throwing a granade out of a foxhole, it took his left hand. I would like to say all he got was a silver star but hay this was the 50's.
Point is all liberals are not anti gun or anti hunting.
I have the utmost respect for all who have served this Great Country of ours and I truly believe that your Dad and all who have laid their lives on the line for me and you are what makes this country great.
That being said, I stand by my tag line of "liberalism is a mental disorder".
Notice also that I also stress "vote out all incumbents, always." The overall problem with our representative government is we do not have term limits, so we get career politicians. Their only goal is to keep power. They keep power by continually promising gifts from the teasury for people who are unproductive. This is liberalism. Jefferson (my favorite liberal) warned of this 200 plus years ago
The only ones who truly deserve these gifts are men like your father! People who have sacrificed for our freedom.
God Bless you and your Dad.
Post by: frostman on July 26, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
In my county ther is a local offical that is a Democrat but conservative... I would say in the Scoop Jackson mindset.. He would have run as a republican but there is no a republican could get enough votes in the Valley... Republicans either need to take a few steps down the slippery slope to get elected, or really get thier cat together and really sell the people on why our state needs them... I think republicans rely too much no being RIGHT on the issues and don't take the time to educate people on why they are right... The republicans job is a harder never ending job. :twocents:
Dude, this would mean that we would have to get people to pay attention and think. Good luck.
I do agree though. The Scoop Dems were all part of the whole "Great Society" in the '60's (failed liberal tripe). They were the first ones to really start bringing the federal money to their states. Scoop and Maggie were good at this and around here it was put to pretty good use for a long time.
Me thinks the teet is running dry.
Post by: BobW on July 27, 2011, 06:29:46 AM
It is a choice and it should be made by the people that are the most aware of the situation.
Anymore both parties are more and more the same. It's all about imposing beliefs on others. If you don't want to own a gun, then don't. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Stop telling others how to live their lives.
That would be smaller government.
Post by: Machias on July 27, 2011, 08:00:47 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 27, 2011, 08:11:01 AM
Post by: Machias on July 27, 2011, 10:32:18 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 27, 2011, 10:56:53 AM
Sorry :jacked:
Gotcha, Sir. All's good. :tup:
Post by: BobW on July 27, 2011, 02:09:04 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 27, 2011, 02:21:41 PM
I think it was started by me.... I was trying to make a point, unsuccessfuly I guess. So for my last comment on this. You are correct, I think a womens RIGHT to chose is no more or less important than your or my right to own guns.
Actually, you may think what you wish, but a woman's right to choice it's less according to law. The right to bear arms is in our Constitution. Roe V Wade could easily be overturned with a new Supreme Court battle. On the other hand, the 2nd Amendment stays unless a constitutional amendment is passed and ratified by the states, or a Constitutional convention is held to re-write the entire document. This would also need to be ratified by the states.
But again, the discussion here has to do with guns, the Constitution, and the UN; not abortion. I think we can all agree that politicians who want to pick and choose which of our rights they wish to protect are not only terrible Constitutional scholars, but a great danger to the future of our society as we know and love it.
Post by: Special T on July 29, 2011, 10:57:55 AM
I think that is the major problem with ALL politicains is that it is easy for them to kick the can down the road so that they can pass on making hard decsions...
Post by: turbo on August 29, 2011, 05:52:02 PM
Washington is one of the laughing stocks of the country and your vote is already counted. I will keep trying to voice my opinions through voting but It's really pointless.. :bash: :bash:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 29, 2011, 07:34:07 PM
Born and raised here and hate it. 43 years old and I have finally realized my vote is worthless. We are all slaves to the Boeing union and the teachers union and King County. We can't and won't win. When Gregwhore was re-elected I was stunned. When Murray was re-elected I gave up. Only fools keep electing these wastes of oxygen and we are surrounded by them everywhere. I still have yet to meet anyone that will actually admit they voted for these clowns.
Washington is one of the laughing stocks of the country and your vote is already counted. I will keep trying to voice my opinions through voting but It's really pointless.. :bash: :bash:
I know how you feel--we here in Eastern Washington don't feel like our votes count. We are greatly outnumbered by the squishies on the I5 corridor. Look what happened to Jay Inslee. We voted his lying sack a$$ out of this area, and he went over where his own kind are, and got voted right back in again. Now he wants to be our next Governor. But don't give up--if you remember the last election, Patty Murray didn't win by a landslide. She won by the skin of her teeth. Proof that more voters are waking up to what the liberal mentality is doing to this country. The UN? We give them the most monetary support, and a free headquarters on US soil, and they constantly try to stab us in the back. I think it's time to pull them off the teat and boot them out.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 30, 2011, 09:24:39 AM
Older yet turbo, and have seen a few more years of the slide.
Post by: Skillet on August 30, 2011, 09:53:46 AM
Questionable whether this thread should have been allowed on the main board to begin with, but it has now run the gamut of topics and it still a political thread. There's a place on the board for these posts now - let's move this there.
:twocents:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on September 01, 2011, 05:53:53 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 02, 2011, 06:23:08 AM
Born and raised here and hate it. 43 years old and I have finally realized my vote is worthless. We are all slaves to the Boeing union and the teachers union and King County. We can't and won't win. When Gregwhore was re-elected I was stunned. When Murray was re-elected I gave up. Only fools keep electing these wastes of oxygen and we are surrounded by them everywhere. I still have yet to meet anyone that will actually admit they voted for these clowns.
Washington is one of the laughing stocks of the country and your vote is already counted. I will keep trying to voice my opinions through voting but It's really pointless.. :bash: :bash:
You should move. I didn't like living where I was on the east coast and moved in '89. I love it here. One of the cool things about living in the US is that anytime you want, you can move anywhere you want. You could move to more conservative ID or MT and still get the benefits of living in a NW state. If I were as unhappy as you say you are, I certainly would. And, no offense meant by it. Not trying to get rid of you
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 02, 2011, 07:26:44 AM
There was a post on here not long ago maybe a week about NRA vice president Wayne LaPierre speaking to the UN about this very subject. Please do some research before ranting about the one orginization that did step up, and in very strong words told the people of the UN that this will never fly in the United States. Honestly did anyone believe that either Cantwell, or Murray would sign on to this treaty. They needed to be booted out on there ear we had a chance with Dino guess more of us should have gotten off our ass, and voted. I certainly hope that the passion you feel on this matter gets you, and everyone you know to the ballot box this november.the problem is this state is split 50/50 with the Demos having a lttle edge .....until we get a few more Republicians in there we are screwed...those two women make my gut hurt :chuckle: :yeah:
Post by: Special T on September 02, 2011, 07:33:05 AM
BH45 I think Dino's problem was he was tying to be the kinder gentler republican... Confrontation works in political campaigns, if you don't have the fire to attack your opponent that you disagree with you aren't likely to win. :twocents:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 02, 2011, 08:24:10 AM
I love the land here in this state but HATE its politicians! I think that a large portion of the problem was the large influx of Liberal Californians in the 80's and 90's... I think their thinking and voting skewed our traditionally conservative in nature Democrats. If you look back at our history of governors for this state you have to go back to the 1901 before you have a streak of several governors fro the same party... I think our governors really turned down hill With Mike Lowery. I think Booth Gardner is where the start of the change in Democrats... The change from physical investments in infrastructure, to "investments" in our future.... It is my opinion that this change has made it easier to fudge the success of them spending our money prudently... When a hi-way, bridge,etc is built there are hard facts as to the cost and benefit... "Investments" in things like education and children health are fluid and harder to ascertain the value of the investment...Dude ...this is why I like you so much :chuckle:Your all over it ....Keep this site straight :yeah:
BH45 I think Dino's problem was he was tying to be the kinder gentler republican... Confrontation works in political campaigns, if you don't have the fire to attack your opponent that you disagree with you aren't likely to win. :twocents:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on September 02, 2011, 08:53:06 AM
Post by: Special T on September 02, 2011, 10:59:58 AM
Post by: npaull on September 06, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Politicians absolutely LOVE the gun issue, just like they love the abortion issue, because it polarizes the voting base but in fact, virtually never goes anywhere. Both issues are so firmly entrenched in legal precedent that a durable (note that word it's important, because challenge laws pop up and are shot down all the time) and substantial change to the current system is hard to conceive. The politicians don't actually have to do anything - just say a few words and presto, an energized voting base.
Let us not forget, too, that all of us agree on some degree of arms control, it's just a question of where we draw the line. It's not a black and white issue. Very few people (probably no one, frankly) on this board would argue that anyone should be able to obtain surface-to-air missiles without any sort of surveillance. Most would probably agree bazookas and land mines are over the line too. It gets hazy in the assault-weapon category, for sure. It's a nuanced issue; making it "all or nothing" loses support no matter what side you're on... just my thoughts.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on September 07, 2011, 06:47:13 AM
Yeah, like when "they" define my 742 Woodsmaster as an assault weapon