Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: jdb on June 18, 2008, 08:05:08 PM

Title: pyrodex or black?
Post by: jdb on June 18, 2008, 08:05:08 PM: pyrodex or black? I use pyrodex but as soon as I run out I think I'll try black powder. JB
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: lee on June 19, 2008, 05:57:15 AM: Hi,

While black works just fine, it is just not practical to use when compared to the other propellants on the market. It is just to corrosive and is to quick to foul the lands and grooves.

We usually will fire a round or 2 the day before "Opening day" to insure the sighting is on. I then reload for the hunt without cleaning the bore. With Black, the bore will start to corrode within 24hrs in this climate. I don't have this problem with "777".

I used Pyrodex for 20 years before switching to "777" and don't have any complaints with it. "777" is supoose to have an increase in velocity, thats why I switched.

Yer mileage may vary,
Lee
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: CP on June 19, 2008, 07:16:26 AM: I don’t like Pyrodex. It seems to burn slow and it is inaccurate, at least in my rifle. I will hunt with BP because I’m stubborn and a purist but BP is hard to find and it is dirty. My rifle cleans up with soap and hot water and I don’t have any corrosion problems with BP.

I started using “777” on the range. It is cleaner than BP, just as accurate, doesn’t stink, and it may just have a bit more pop to it. I would hunt with “777” if I had to but I will never buy Pyrodex again.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: Sagedawg on June 19, 2008, 07:32:32 AM: When I first started shooting black powder, I used pyrodex and thought it was fine. Then I got my hand on some real Swiss made black powder and used that and thought everything was great. Still use it in my traditional, but it is somewhat hard to find in the stores. I also used it in my inline until T7 came out and now thats all I use in my inline. I dont like the pellets from any maker, so I only shoot the loose because it lets me fiddle around with my loads.

Sage
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: scudmaster on June 19, 2008, 11:56:21 AM: For the pureist, I can see BP, but if your going to use a substitute, might as well make it 777 or the like and avoid the clean up/corrosion hastle. IMHO.

Cheers.

Scud
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: shag on June 19, 2008, 05:42:51 PM: Pyrodex seems to be the most accurate in my smokepole. I do like the advantages that 777 has. But accuracy seems more important to me. I am gonna drop the powder charge a little with the 777 and see if that helps.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: p-ohana on June 19, 2008, 05:56:05 PM: I've just started shooting my M/L and I'm using Pyrodex w/ #11 precussion caps. The question I have will the #11 caps ignite 777?
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: shag on June 19, 2008, 06:40:27 PM: No problem. 777 dose add velocity. Not sure how much. My rifle liked 100grs of Pyrodex alot!! 100grs of 777 and I've lost accuracy. Heard 100gr of 777 is the equivlant of 110grs or more of Pryodex. That is why my next trip at the range i'm gonna see how 90 grs of 777 shoots. Hope accuracy comes back! As 777 is much less corosive.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: CP on June 19, 2008, 07:55:41 PM: Quote from: p-ohana on June 19, 2008, 05:56:05 PM
I've just started shooting my M/L and I'm using Pyrodex w/ #11 precussion caps. The question I have will the #11 caps ignite 777?

They light up 777 better than they ignite Pyrodex. I use #11 caps and I haven't had a misfire or lite fire unless I screwed up the load.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: scudmaster on June 27, 2008, 12:56:41 AM: I'm assuming you are all using loose 777 with the no 11? I have also heard that two 50gr pellets of 777 are the equivalent of 90gr volume of loose. Anyone hear the same?
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: M_ray on June 27, 2008, 01:12:56 AM: Quote
The question I have will the #11 caps ignite 777?

That's fine as long as you are using LOOSE powder and not pellets! I had a misfire two years ago on a spike at 70 yards. I read the fine print on my box of pellets and it said "for use with 209 ingintion" I called Hodgson and spoke with a really nice guy there and his explanation was that no 11's could fire pellets 999 times out of a thousand but there's allways that chance it's not going to fire so they don't recomend it! He said 777 powder and no 11's was fine. I had gotten lucky and they worked for me well up until that point ... well I switched back to the powder and haven't had any problems since!
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: HntnFsh on July 13, 2008, 04:56:58 PM: Dont mean to stray but how about Jim Shockeys powder.Ive heard good things about it.But havent tried it.Any of you have input?
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: scudmaster on July 13, 2008, 11:21:17 PM: Quote from: M_ray on June 27, 2008, 01:12:56 AM
Quote
The question I have will the #11 caps ignite 777?

That's fine as long as you are using LOOSE powder and not pellets! I had a misfire two years ago on a spike at 70 yards. I read the fine print on my box of pellets and it said "for use with 209 ingintion" I called Hodgson and spoke with a really nice guy there and his explanation was that no 11's could fire pellets 999 times out of a thousand but there's allways that chance it's not going to fire so they don't recomend it! He said 777 powder and no 11's was fine. I had gotten lucky and they worked for me well up until that point ... well I switched back to the powder and haven't had any problems since!

Have you tried musket caps with the pellets?
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: tbotts on July 19, 2008, 08:02:48 AM: I have used clean shot and pyrodex in the past, but now I use 777. It cleans up easier. No problems with accuracy at 90 gr.
I would like to try Swiss bp but can't find it in any of the stores here. It can be ordered online, but it has to be shipped by the case. Can't justify paying that much just to try something that I might not even end up using.
I also tried the 777 pellets in my inline with #11 caps and couldn't get any ignition.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: M_ray on July 19, 2008, 02:47:32 PM: Quote
Have you tried musket caps with the pellets?

Yeah one of the first years I switched to 777 pellets I used musket caps and they worked fine! the only reason I changed back? I shot at a deer one year and after my reload I relized I had dropped my caps out of my pocket somewhere (you see the musket caps don't fit in the speedloader lid like the no 11's do) I ran over to my hunting partner tmike and asked for a cap and he hands me a no 11 :( !!!!!! well thats when I figured it's better to use the same stuff as your partner in case you loose something!
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: scudmaster on July 19, 2008, 08:39:03 PM: Thanks for the response. My partner and I are both switching to musket caps this year, so we will both have the same. Also I have found there is a inline muscet capper as well. I will give it a try and let you know what I discover.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: M_ray on July 19, 2008, 11:17:52 PM: Yeah I went back to no 11's cause I have 4 speed loders and 2 bottles of 777 powder to use up. So I don't figure I'll be switching any time soon... or at least until they allow 209! :chuckle:
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: scudmaster on July 22, 2008, 05:20:25 PM: Yeah,

And with the price of caps and powder these days, makes no sense to switch when you have something that works.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: buckhorn2 on August 20, 2008, 07:39:19 AM: I watched jim shockey and went to cabelas and asked for american powder in the sticks. When I got home and tryed it it would;nt shoot in my gun. Then a friend said he tryed it and it was;nt as good as 777 but said we did;nt buy jim shockey gold. If you buy it make sure to say jim shockey gold or you will end up with what i got.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: bobcat on August 20, 2008, 07:55:15 AM: I wouldn't use anything but Triple 7 or Pyrodex. I've heard bad things about that Jim Shockey stuff.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: Buckblaster on September 21, 2008, 10:52:12 AM: I am new to muzzy shooting but have been reloading for my rifles for years. Just messing around so far trying to get familiar with the gun and and the loads. Naturally, I started comparing loads for groups and velocities. I had pretty good groups with almost all the loads. Here's what I came up with using the chronograph with Pyrodex and T7 out of my .50 cal. Black Diamond XR:
295 gr Powerbelt, 100 gr Pyrodex pellets - 1470 fps
348 gr Powerbelt, 100 gr Pyrodex pellets - 1465 fps
350 gr MaxiHunter, 100 gr Pyrodex pellets - 1390 fps
350 gr MaxiHunter, 150 gr Pyrodex pellets - 1540 fps

348 gr Powerbelt, 100 gr T7 pellets - 1465 fps(less velocity than loose powder)
348 gr Powerbelt, 100 gr T7 loose - 1580 fps
350 gr MaxiHunter, 100 gr T7 loose - 1530 fps
350 gr MaxiHunter, 110 gr T7 loose - 1650 fps
348 gr Powerbelt, 110 gr T7 loose - 1680 fps
295 gr Powerbelt, 110 gr T7 loose - 1740 fps
50 cal musket ball (178 gr), 110 gr T7 loose - 2020 fps
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: Sagedawg on September 21, 2008, 11:24:11 AM: Thats a very informative post. Thanks for sharing this with all of us.........to bad you didnt use a Knight :chuckle: :chuckle: just kidding you.

Sage
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: shag on September 21, 2008, 11:41:25 AM: I've heard 777 and pyrodex offer the most consistant pellets. Not sure. Have heard others including Shockeys have quite a variance in weight pellet for pellet. In our world that don't fly. So far I've had best accuracy with pryodex. Am gonna work on reduced and possibly increased loads with 777 to see if I can find a happy medium. I'll make it work. love the ability to shoot my rifle and basicly not worry about corrosion with 777. Just bought some precision bullets and their website reccomends 110 grs of 777 for longer ranges. I have a feeling 90grs will be more like it for me.

I once again just couldn't justify spending coin on pellets when I can get a jug for alot less and shoot alot more.

Still pouring!!
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: clindsayrun on September 21, 2008, 11:47:58 AM: Lots of good ideas here. I may have to make some changes.

So I'm shooting a TC Omega with 150 gr of Pyrodex (rec. max load for the gun). It's shooting 6 inches high and 4 to the right at 50 yards w/the sights maxed out. No good right. So I need to drop the load to something more manageable, like 130 gr...

Would you recommend trying loose powder like 777 or should I just keep working with the Pyrodex until I get it right?

-Corey
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: shag on September 21, 2008, 01:14:54 PM: clindsayrun, Those williams sights? I went to a T/C peep sight. Best move I ever made.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: clindsayrun on September 22, 2008, 11:50:53 AM: Similar to a williams fiber optic, but it's the TC Fiber Optic Sight.

I took a look at the TC Peep sight online. Maybe I'll make the change...can't hurt at this point.

-C
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: shag on September 22, 2008, 04:35:47 PM: The williams peep I had I also had adjusted all the way out and still was high. I swaped it out for the old school T/C peep and well.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: C-Money on September 30, 2008, 07:18:36 AM: I used 80gr black powder with a patched round ball from a 54 cal Hawken. Seemed to work fine out to 100yards. Watched my friend kill a muley doe with this combo.
Title: Re: pyrodex or black?
Post by: dfwdon on October 03, 2008, 07:22:49 PM: Does anyone use 777 in a sidelock?