Post by: 10Key on August 15, 2011, 01:31:17 PM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on August 15, 2011, 01:39:30 PM
With some ammo, I can only get about 2" groups at 100. With the hand loads we worked up, its now shooting sub MOA groups. Sometimes it just takes finding the round your gun likes.
Post by: rasbo on August 15, 2011, 01:39:44 PM
I am having a heck of a time getting my Remington 30-06 mountain rifle to group worth a darn. I have tried a few different rounds to no avail. Besides swapping ammo again (I am currently running Remington 165 grain accutips), how should I start narrowing down the issue?let someone else shoot it,what kinda groups are you getting?bench rest off hand vise???If I have a problem I let someone else try it to make sure its not me..and go from there...some guns just dont shoot well..
Post by: spookgus on August 15, 2011, 01:47:16 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 15, 2011, 01:49:46 PM
Those mountain gun barrels get hot and whippy quick.
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 01:50:01 PM
Quote
Check for loose guard screws, bases and rings.
Everytime I've ever had a problem it was the scope.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 15, 2011, 02:02:36 PM
Post by: jackmaster on August 15, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on August 15, 2011, 02:36:29 PM
QuoteCheck for loose guard screws, bases and rings.
Everytime I've ever had a problem it was the scope.
Exactly, never had a problem other than it always being the scope... Swap out the scope completely and try it and see what you get with it.
Post by: wastickslinger on August 15, 2011, 02:45:14 PM
Just kidding.
I like the idea of having someone else shoot it too. Then check bases, rings, scope. 9 out of 10 its a scope or ring issue.
Post by: superdown on August 15, 2011, 02:52:55 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on August 15, 2011, 02:57:19 PM
Post by: MuleySniper on August 15, 2011, 03:00:17 PM
let someone else shoot it just for their grouping. Dont pay attention to where they hit and do not change it based on where they hit. Everyone shots a little different it seems.
It does work! Stickslinger can never hit anything. I don't have any problems hitting the x with his rifles. He blames it on his lazy eye.
MS
Post by: jackelope on August 15, 2011, 03:02:12 PM
How big are the groups?
Post by: bloodhound on August 15, 2011, 03:11:33 PM
Post by: superdown on August 15, 2011, 03:12:24 PM
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 15, 2011, 03:14:21 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 15, 2011, 03:26:18 PM
-Steve
Post by: 10Key on August 15, 2011, 09:50:02 PM
Post by: Mookie on August 15, 2011, 10:00:04 PM
Are the groups consistently the same size and shape? Vertical or horizontal stringing? Is it throwing a shot wide? How is the trigger?
Post by: actionshooter on August 15, 2011, 10:24:56 PM
Post by: SkookumJeff on August 15, 2011, 10:47:57 PM
If your rifle has fixed sights on it, pull the scope and shoot with the sights, if the groups tighten up, you need a new scope.
Skook
Post by: Miles on August 15, 2011, 11:06:58 PM
I just went through this with my brand new savage. I had a Nikon prostaff 4-12 with a weaver tac mount. turns out it was a bad scope, barrel and the cheap stock, all combined it shot horrid. Replaced the scope, shot way better (it actually grouped), then I replaced the barrel, shot super, then I replaced the stock, stopped throwing shots.
:chuckle:
So basically you got a new rifle, and it shot better then the old one.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 15, 2011, 11:09:49 PM
Post by: high country on August 16, 2011, 08:18:03 AM
Post by: Curly on August 16, 2011, 09:06:35 AM
Post by: Alchase on August 16, 2011, 11:41:12 AM
Another thing to try is to shoot at the smallest target you can. I like to use small chevron type targets and shoot for the very tip of the chevron. I had grouping issues in the past using large 'dot' targets...difficult to get exact dead center.
Actually I do just the opposite when sighting in. I use large targets that have vertical and horizontal lines bisecting the center of the target (most targets do this) then I use the whole cross hair aligned with both vertical and horizontal lines at the edges of the target, not the center of the target. This ensures the same aimpoint every shot. Once dialed in I then move to a small target. Aim small shoot small, but to do that you have to have consistency first.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 16, 2011, 12:56:55 PM
Thanks for the ideas. I have a nikon pro staff scope and am shooting Remington Premier Accu tips in 165. They group 4-6" at 100 yds and I have shot it off a bench with a front rest, no rest and off hand, with similar results. I have tried Hornady and Federal ammo in 165 grain solid point bullets. Before I head back to the range I am going to check all of the scope mount screws, check the crown (it is crowned) and wait a bit longer between rounds. The trigger is heavy it seems, I am sure that it is still factory set. Also, I will see if I can get another shooter to give it a try. I would think groupings of 2-4" wouldn't be too much to ask
Yes, your rifle should shoot less than 2" at 100yds. But just shoot some Remington Corelokts until you figure things out. No reason to waste money on better ammo. I've been a competitive shooter on and off for years. Those of us that shoot sub-MOA groups at any distance don't do it with 6 pound triggers. I'll agree with 'smaller target' is better. But not so small that you can't see it at that distance through the scope at it's highest power. I use 1" paster squares on white paper. Set your cross hairs like this for the best opportunity to group tightly. Don't adjust your scope at all. Shoot to the same point of aim every time and see what your groups are like. Then after shooting a group, adjust your scope depending upon where the group is. Wait one minute for the number of each shot fired. (one minute after the first shot, two minutes after the second shot, three minutes after the third...) Don't drink coffee/MountainDew and such, to keep your BP at rest. A front rest is great, but a butt rest on V'd sand bag is a big help. Tuck the rifle in to your shoulder tighly. Sometimes I put the off hand on top of the scope, sometimes pulling back on the Butt-wrist with a relaxed trigger hand. Everyone's a little different there. Find what is comfortable for you. Find target in scope. Exhale. Hold... As you're applying increasing pressure on the trigger until she fires. You want this to be a surprise, not a reaction to seeing the crosshairs right where you want them and jerking the trigger. If you can't hold that breath long.. Breath, release tight grip.. Blink eyes and restart the process of aquiring target and applying steady/increasing pressure on the trigger after you've exhaled. I'd have to watch you shoot to give more pointers, but that's a good place to start.
Unless you can tell me that you shoot 'your other rifle' to 1" groups all day long, I'm allowing the posibility of something wrong with the sighting system or shooter error. Those Remington barrels shoot just fine out of the box.
-Steve
Post by: bod on August 16, 2011, 01:21:02 PM
Post by: jackmaster on August 16, 2011, 02:06:25 PM
Post by: Mookie on August 16, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
So basically you got a new rifle, and it shot better then the old one.Damn skippy :tup:
Post by: ducksoup on August 16, 2011, 07:15:07 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 16, 2011, 11:54:05 PM
except the holding your breath part once you put enough time into shooting you should be able to control your breathing enough
Agree'd, but I don't think we're talking to a vastly experienced shooter. Initially I'll advise to hold breath on the exhale with an improving shooter.
I shoot slowfire pistol with one hand at 50yds. Breathing is not an option.
-Steve
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on August 17, 2011, 06:41:33 AM
Get a snap cap and a dime. Have a friend help you and get in a good steady shooting position. Charge the weapon and take the safety off. Have your helper place the dime on the top of the end of the barrel. Work on your trigger squeeze where you can fire the weapon with out the dime falling off. We did this by the hour and our results improved dramatically.
Post by: 10Key on August 17, 2011, 07:14:24 AM
except the holding your breath part once you put enough time into shooting you should be able to control your breathing enough
Agree'd, but I don't think we're talking to a vastly experienced shooter. Initially I'll advise to hold breath on the exhale with an improving shooter.
I shoot slowfire pistol with one hand at 50yds. Breathing is not an option.
-Steve
You are correct, I've put ~50 rounds through this rifle and it is my first.
Post by: high country on August 17, 2011, 07:17:02 AM
Post by: Miles on August 17, 2011, 07:21:05 AM
take a buddy shooting. have your buddy load your rifle for you, and place a spent round in it randomly. it will tell you a lot about your form.
Excellent advice. I used to shoot a lot with someone that would do this quite frequently...you'd be amazed how many people will swear up and down that they are not pulling shots or flinching, that is until they get the "dummy round".
Post by: 10Key on August 28, 2011, 05:34:47 PM
We started with giving the rifle a good cleaning, starting with an overnight soak of copper solvent. I couldn't believe the nastiness that came off this morning. Then on to your typical cleaning with solvent, etc. We then hit the range with me shooting the rounds that I have been shooting for some time. I took four shots, spaced out time-wise as advised above. I was all over the place. The first shot was off paper, the second was in the neighborhood and the third and fourth were within 4" of the second shot (first on paper). That didn't go so well. So then it was time for my brother to hit the bench. He ended up shooting a 2.5" group of three shots, spaced out time similar to my round. He was consistently hitting approximately an inch right of his aim point, so we adjusted the scope slightly. He took to more shots and he was dead-nuts on target.
So, it seems to me that someone (me) needs to get some practice under their belt. It seems that I am pulling (anticipating) the shot a bit, which I think I can help with maybe a slightly lighter trigger pull and obviously, putting more rounds through it.
Thanks for all of the input.
Post by: high country on August 28, 2011, 05:57:24 PM
Post by: Bob33 on August 28, 2011, 06:01:33 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 28, 2011, 06:33:29 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 28, 2011, 06:38:18 PM
think I posted something in this form last week under JERKING THE TRIGGER :chuckle: :dunno:take a buddy shooting. have your buddy load your rifle for you, and place a spent round in it randomly. it will tell you a lot about your form.
Excellent advice. I used to shoot a lot with someone that would do this quite frequently...you'd be amazed how many people will swear up and down that they are not pulling shots or flinching, that is until they get the "dummy round".
Post by: high country on August 28, 2011, 07:52:20 PM
MT.Rifle is a sweet gun ... but if your shooting more than 2 shots every 15 minutes and are exspecting 1/2 groups forget it ..... the barrels are not made for continous shooting ... the barrels are to thin and were made for going light ....I have loaded many a loads and mine does shoot 1/2 groups but only when I shoot 2 shots and let the barrel cool before shooting 2 more shots ... just not made to bang off 5 shots and exspect 1/2 groups :twocents:I have a rem ti in 270win that I can shoot .75moa with almost every time and often much better. I have a few targets saved from it where 5 shots go inside .7 moa......not bad for a 7lb all up rig.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 28, 2011, 08:01:02 PM
Post by: high country on August 28, 2011, 08:03:22 PM
Post by: jyerxa on August 28, 2011, 10:10:36 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 29, 2011, 12:17:23 AM
What is your most successful hobbie?
-Steve
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 29, 2011, 08:25:51 AM
Post by: 10Key on August 29, 2011, 08:44:47 AM
To the others, the goal never was or is to make this thing a benchrest shooter or a tack driver. The results I was getting were simply unacceptable for hunting. With the help of those that posted to this thread, we determined it to be user error, not the rifle, scope or mounts or the ammo. My brother was able to get sub 2.5" groups when he shot it, which is great considering MY previous results.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 29, 2011, 08:48:23 AM
Post by: twistiron on August 29, 2011, 09:00:46 AM
Post by: high country on August 29, 2011, 09:49:58 AM
Post by: Rob on August 29, 2011, 10:12:09 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 29, 2011, 10:14:03 AM
I consider a 2.5moa gun to be in need of serious work.
I won't disagree, but if you've read this whole thread, it assumed to be a new rifle. I'm sure it is quite capable of better groups than that as she sits. I'm leaning on shooter experience.
-Steve
Post by: SkookumJeff on August 29, 2011, 12:26:55 PM
I won't disagree, but if you've read this whole thread, it assumed to be a new rifle. I'm sure it is quite capable of better groups than that as she sits. I'm leaning on shooter experience.
-Steve
Personally, I would NOT 'assume' ANYTHING about a new rifle these days. Sad to say but quality issues are common with new firearms. That may or may not be the problem here, just sayin...I wouldn't assume anything...just because it's new. Remington in particular, is having 'issues' with quality lately....
Skook.