Post by: White Tornado on August 19, 2011, 10:28:33 AM
Yesterday evening, while out for a ride in the boat and looking for signs that the mighty humpy run was on track for the Sept 1 opener, I saw a tribal gill net being set in the lower Stillaguamish River (Hat Slough). I don't understand why anyone, tribal or not, would be allowed to set gill nets in a river that has such a small number of native chinook returning each year. The forecast for this year was under 800!!! This just really makes me believe that there are those out there that just do not give a crap about the future of these fish runs. Why take a chance on killing some of the last few native chinook just to net some pinks? There must be places and ways to net humpies that would not put the Chinook at risk.To me this seems like pure stupidity and indifference for the future of the wild fish.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: By the way I did not see a single fish jump or roll all evening.
Post by: Kola16 on August 19, 2011, 10:37:43 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 19, 2011, 10:40:45 AM
Post by: 6x6in6 on August 19, 2011, 10:49:22 AM
I wonder how it works for the "incidental" netting of Chinook since their quota was only 25 this year and the netting season for Chinook ended a week ago?
Here's their most current netting schedule for pinky's. Feel free to click but it will just piss you off. The damn fish only get a 24 to 48 hour net free opportunity to make the mad dash. :bash:
http://stillaguamish.nsn.us/fishing%20regs.htm (http://stillaguamish.nsn.us/fishing%20regs.htm)
Post by: fish vacuum on August 19, 2011, 12:14:21 PM
That is the river I fish :bash: I went fishing last night there just to catch and realease.
For pinks?
Post by: Kola16 on August 19, 2011, 12:19:30 PM
Post by: fish vacuum on August 19, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
Post by: Kola16 on August 19, 2011, 12:31:27 PM
Post by: birdmanwa on August 19, 2011, 11:13:57 PM
Sad isn't it.
I wonder how it works for the "incidental" netting of Chinook since their quota was only 25 this year and the netting season for Chinook ended a week ago?
Here's their most current netting schedule for pinky's. Feel free to click but it will just piss you off. The damn fish only get a 24 to 48 hour net free opportunity to make the mad dash. :bash:
http://stillaguamish.nsn.us/fishing%20regs.htm (http://stillaguamish.nsn.us/fishing%20regs.htm)
And all this talk about salmon restoration, what a joke. The Indians control the salmon and they don't care about the future. They are the worst thing for our salmon future.
Post by: fish vacuum on August 19, 2011, 11:22:47 PM
It's kings definetly should be protected a lot better.
It's closed to salmon fishing until Sept 1st to help protect the kings while other neighboring rivers are open in August. Incidental catch and release of kings is one of the big limiting factors on other salmon fisheries on the Stilly. One more reason people shouldn't be out just to CnR before it's open.
Post by: birdmanwa on August 20, 2011, 07:38:36 AM
It's kings definetly should be protected a lot better.
It's closed to salmon fishing until Sept 1st to help protect the kings while other neighboring rivers are open in August. Incidental catch and release of kings is one of the big limiting factors on other salmon fisheries on the Stilly. One more reason people shouldn't be out just to CnR before it's open.
But when there are nets in the river, a couple people fishing isn't going to kill as many as a gill net. Just like the Skagit, think how many kings are killed in the Indian nets versus how many are caught a sportsman, its a joke.
Post by: longknife on August 21, 2011, 04:36:22 PM
Throw some bales of straw rite down the middle of the river, they dont care about anything, why should we??
Post by: Kola16 on August 21, 2011, 04:56:12 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on August 21, 2011, 06:58:20 PM
That river used to have a special run of White Kings, the best eating fish there was, all gone now, the last one I heard cuaght was in 1980 something.
Post by: longknife on August 21, 2011, 09:37:10 PM
Post by: Kola16 on August 21, 2011, 09:45:55 PM
I saw a tribal gill net being set in the lower Stillaguamish River (Hat Slough).
Did you see this?
Post by: autopilot70 on August 21, 2011, 09:47:29 PM
Post by: coyotemadness on August 22, 2011, 01:24:19 PM
Post by: sharpeshooter on August 22, 2011, 04:16:04 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on August 23, 2011, 03:24:28 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on August 23, 2011, 03:49:20 PM
Post by: birdmanwa on August 23, 2011, 04:24:30 PM
They net pinks for the same reason they net chums, roe. The Japanese pay top dollar for salmon roe and humpy and chum eggs are the most abundant sources. That is why you will find those mountains of fish on the side of the river. They bring in the nets, strip the eggs out of the hens, and then throw everything into a big pile to rot. awesome...
Talk about a complete waste of a resource, we can't even fish the river for getting a dinner for our family for another week and they damn Indians are netting the river just for the eggs. Makes me sick, and the best part is that we can't do anything about it, but don't worry we will keep making more salmon habitat to help the salmon smolt. In other words we will keep wasting our money so the Indians can kill and waste more fish every year
Post by: Kola16 on August 23, 2011, 04:30:31 PM
Makes me sick, and the best part is that we can't do anything about it, [/quote]
Can't we :rolleyes:
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 23, 2011, 04:44:48 PM
Post by: Kola16 on August 23, 2011, 04:49:40 PM
Post by: sharpeshooter on August 23, 2011, 05:16:17 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 23, 2011, 05:29:47 PM
The only joke I saw on this thread was when you tried to convince us you were trying to CNR for steelhead. Yea, ummmhmmm sure... :rolleyes:
Post by: HOYT6.0 on August 23, 2011, 05:32:10 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on August 24, 2011, 08:19:48 PM
They net pinks for the same reason they net chums, roe. The Japanese pay top dollar for salmon roe and humpy and chum eggs are the most abundant sources. That is why you will find those mountains of fish on the side of the river. They bring in the nets, strip the eggs out of the hens, and then throw everything into a big pile to rot. awesome...
Talk about a complete waste of a resource, we can't even fish the river for getting a dinner for our family for another week and they damn Indians are netting the river just for the eggs. Makes me sick, and the best part is that we can't do anything about it, but don't worry we will keep making more salmon habitat to help the salmon smolt. In other words we will keep wasting our money so the Indians can kill and waste more fish every year
How can this be aloud?? It was only just a few years ago we had record runs of chums on the Skagit and Stilly. Then the roe market became popular and within 2 years the chum were almost wiped out, and now we can't fish for them. Are the humpies next? For God's sakes what's the world coming to is this sort of horrific practice continues?
Post by: longknife on August 25, 2011, 11:52:45 AM
To all of those who say "just throw a hay bail down the river" where do you think those nets go?! Have you ever seen a ghost net choked with fish in the river? I have and it sucks. I don't agree with tribal netting like most of the rest of you but I'd rather see those fish that are caught be put to use rather than get caught in a ghost net and go to waste.
Where is a mountain of fish on a river bank not a waste?? Its no more diffrent than a big log floating down stream, catching, and making your "ghost net".
Dont think they should be there at all.
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 25, 2011, 11:56:04 AM
Forgot to add, throwing a hay bale down the river is way different than a log taking a net out. They both end in the same terrible result but one is preventable. :hello:
Post by: longknife on August 25, 2011, 12:02:54 PM
hell they are already selling fish on Tulalip 3 silvers for 25 bucks. No eggs, but at least they are using them.
Post by: Kola16 on August 25, 2011, 12:34:04 PM
Kola,
The only joke I saw on this thread was when you tried to convince us you were trying to CNR for steelhead. Yea, ummmhmmm sure... :rolleyes:
I was fishing for steelhead, I just happened to hook into a humpy :chuckle: I can't even afford a hay bale anyway because I don't even have a car :P
Post by: woodswalker on August 25, 2011, 01:23:36 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 25, 2011, 01:26:15 PM
Post by: woodswalker on August 25, 2011, 01:30:58 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 25, 2011, 01:43:05 PM
Post by: woodswalker on August 25, 2011, 01:51:54 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 25, 2011, 02:07:31 PM
Anyone have pics of a rotting fish pile?
Post by: FC on August 25, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
Post by: Goldeneye on August 25, 2011, 03:56:13 PM
Post by: longknife on August 25, 2011, 09:24:18 PM
AND,,,
On the reservation, Marine Dr, the old gravel pit on the steep hill, across from it,(where they killed all the turkeys they transplanted) the yellow gated road is a fish dump. There are fish being dumped by the truck load.
Post by: Kola16 on August 25, 2011, 10:11:37 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on August 26, 2011, 01:21:29 PM
Set gillnetting when done properly with the right mesh size and the right leadline weight used on the correct tides and checked regularly is a very efficient and effective fishery. Unfortunately in the state of WA the Boldt decision allocated 50% of all catch to the natives and they are not always using these privileges in the correct way. Also the fish bio's in WA are not always on top of their game, all the best bio's are up in AK where they actually manage their fisheries correctly. I for one don't agree with the Boldt decision, as I'm sure most here don't either. I would like to see a revised decision where native households are only allocated a subsistence permit for fish in their ancestral tribal area, not given the rights for commercial sales of the fish without obtaining a commercial permit like the non-natives do and being given a preferentail fishing season also. I would like to see more videos and photos of the abuse and neglect of the Boldt decision being published and made known throughout the public. Remember in the in the 90's when the anti's had the petitions to end hound hunting for bears and cougar and also ban bear baiting? Joe public on the streets of Seattle saw a picture of a cute little bear cub in a tree. Why not take a page from their book with some pictures of piles of dead fish stripped of their roe (I have seen this on the Skokomish river) and put a title of "living the traditions our ancestors taught us." We need to get the ball rolling and take some action by getting publicity on this matter, or else another year will pass and we will be here talking the same old story as our renewable resources are wiped out. :twocents:
:yeah: Boy ain't that the truth, well put, and it may be the only hope we and our salmon have since we can't change the Boldt Decision and the indians refuse to.
Post by: singleshot12 on August 30, 2011, 04:20:44 PM
How can this happen? All those fish wasted because of the demand for caviar in Japan? Get ready for a pink salmon sport closer coming soon in the next couple years.
Any NDN's on here want to try to justify another 100% waste of our resource?
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 30, 2011, 04:29:56 PM
I saw thousands of Pinks being seined near the mouth today. Seems now that the Chum are almost wiped out for their egg roe the Pinks are next.
How can this happen? All those fish wasted because of the demand for caviar in Japan? Get ready for a pink salmon sport closer coming soon in the next couple years.
Any NDN's on here want to try to justify another 100% waste of our resource?
I'm not going to justify what they're doing because it pisses me off as well. It's abuse at its worst and I have not seen it personally down here in Yakama but I have witnessed members getting into trouble with the law for trying to do it.
They are abusing and wasting a natural resource that many enjoy and many do not get to enjoy and I agree with you that it needs to stop. If they feel the need to dispose of salmon in a careless way then why not donate it to a shelter or something to that affect so it can feed those that go hungry everyday. Just an idea for now.
Post by: singleshot12 on August 30, 2011, 04:50:30 PM
Or it's goodbye Humpy now
Post by: birdmanwa on August 30, 2011, 06:04:14 PM
I certainly hope there is an effort to use the meat. I haven't seen or smelled to the piles yet this year, maybe they're getting better at disposing them :dunno: I also hope the Tulalips have some sort of quota too,but then was talking with someone today that says they don't..Somebody besides themselves needs to make sure they do stick to their quota if there is one.
Or it's goodbye Humpy now
They are suppose to have a quota but when they are suppose to keep track for themselves, we all know they don't follow it. It's a real shame for what they do, they are a bunch of slime. Like previously posted they wiped out the dog salmon and now they will do it to the pinks and then complain to the state on how there is no salmon now and then probably demand more money, so they can sit on their reservations all day and collect tax dollars.
Post by: singleshot12 on August 30, 2011, 06:12:26 PM
Post by: birdmanwa on August 30, 2011, 08:24:00 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 30, 2011, 08:41:36 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 30, 2011, 08:47:22 PM
Post by: birdmanwa on August 30, 2011, 09:07:23 PM
Simple use the media against them, the media is a powerful tool, and has the ability to change things, and with election's coming around the corner you can get some power players on your side. When you see waste of wildlife and violations of treaty rights take photo's, take videos. Provide them to the local news, post on forums and youtube :twocents:
good point, but one person can't do it alone all the sportsman need to do it if we all want the resource to be available for future generations. I will do the best I can. I can't stand it any more. I hate having to determine how fishing was based on if the engines netted or not.
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 30, 2011, 10:27:34 PM
I hate having to determine how fishing was based on if the engines netted or not.
wow. really dude? completely unnecessary. that makes us look like white trash that just want all the fish for ourselves. of course if you meant engine like vroom vroom engine, my apologies. :rolleyes:
Post by: fish vacuum on August 31, 2011, 01:19:55 AM
Between gillnetters and seiners, the commercials are getting up to 4 days a week in Port Susan, Port Gardner, and Skagit Bay. Probably some of the same guys who crushed the chum runs in recent years.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/salmon/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/salmon/)
Post by: singleshot12 on August 31, 2011, 07:24:16 AM
I'm sure there are a few Pinks making it up the river but I can almost also guarantee 2 yrs from now returns will be too low and we won't even be able to catch a Humpy.. Unbelievable .
Post by: seth30 on August 31, 2011, 09:04:19 AM
we can even have the red star hyprocrites (hippies) do the fighting for us with the proper media leverage :twocents:Simple use the media against them, the media is a powerful tool, and has the ability to change things, and with election's coming around the corner you can get some power players on your side. When you see waste of wildlife and violations of treaty rights take photo's, take videos. Provide them to the local news, post on forums and youtube :twocents:
good point, but one person can't do it alone all the sportsman need to do it if we all want the resource to be available for future generations. I will do the best I can. I can't stand it any more. I hate having to determine how fishing was based on if the engines netted or not.
Post by: White Tornado on August 31, 2011, 05:30:32 PM
I think Sundance makes some very good and valid comments as well as suggestions on what could be done to improve many of the issues that everyone has expressed. Just not sure how a person or group of fishermen can go about trying to fix what seems to be a very badly broken system of fish management in Washington. Many special interest groups all fighting for as big a piece of the pie as they can get without considering the future generations. I worry that my grandchildren will grow up in a state that does not have a salmon run worth fishing. :'( You would think that the commercial fishermen, native and non native, would feel the same.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 31, 2011, 06:50:47 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on August 31, 2011, 07:31:12 PM
Getting CCA more involved in our neck of the woods might help also.
This tread has covered several subjects.........Netting in rivers with dangerously low numbers of wild Chinook, fishing for salmon just to harvest the roe and wasting the fish, over harvesting of the fish runs by native and non native commercial fishermen.
I think Sundance makes some very good and valid comments as well as suggestions on what could be done to improve many of the issues that everyone has expressed. Just not sure how a person or group of fishermen can go about trying to fix what seems to be a very badly broken system of fish management in Washington. Many special interest groups all fighting for as big a piece of the pie as they can get without considering the future generations. I worry that my grandchildren will grow up in a state that does not have a salmon run worth fishing. :'( You would think that the commercial fishermen, native and non native, would feel the same.
Post by: singleshot12 on September 01, 2011, 06:52:23 PM
Here ya go >:(
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/tribal/2011-12agreement.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/tribal/2011-12agreement.pdf)
Post by: birdmanwa on September 01, 2011, 08:04:37 PM
I hate having to determine how fishing was based on if the engines netted or not.
wow. really dude? completely unnecessary. that makes us look like white trash that just want all the fish for ourselves. of course if you meant engine like vroom vroom engine, my apologies. :rolleyes:
How does this make us look white trash? It doesn't bother me if they are collecting fish for their tribe, but their not. They are selling them all for the roe. Just like they did for generations :bash:
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 01, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
Post by: longknife on September 01, 2011, 09:17:15 PM
Tulalip members get some serious kick back from the casinos(every household, every month, plus their government pay). I think this is why we are seeing more and more indians fishing.
I will say this, we got them at one time,,,but they are getting all those weak ones at the casinos, and winning now!!!
Post by: fish vacuum on September 02, 2011, 01:20:54 AM
This state and most others prioritize commercial fishing because they do bring more of an economic benefit to the state
Many studies say the opposite when comparing the $ of sport fishing versus the $ of commie fishing.
Post by: Goldeneye on September 02, 2011, 10:56:03 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 02, 2011, 11:05:05 AM
Post by: Stilly bay on September 02, 2011, 12:22:58 PM
I still don't understand why our state prioritizes commercial fishing...They destroy runs, can't fish selectively and can never eliminate bycatch, and after all this, they provide less of an economic benefit to our state than sportfishermen do.
Here ya go >:(
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/tribal/2011-12agreement.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/tribal/2011-12agreement.pdf)
This state and most others prioritize commercial fishing because they do bring more of an economic benefit to the state and they can better manage a fishery with commercial fishing. Commercial fisheries do not destroy runs, poor salmon management destroys runs. Commercial fishing can be a selective harvest with almost no bycatch if the fishery has the proper restrictions on gear selection.
To address the issue of an economic benefit, first the fishermen must buy a commercial permit and a boat (none of this revenue goes to the state but the taxes do). If that boat is built in one of the may shipyards in WA then that provides jobs. Then the permit might be bought through Dock Street Brokers, again providing more jobs for WA residents. Next the fisherman must buy gear, most likely from Givonovich nets or Redden etc. providing more jobs. If they choose to not hang the gear themselves then they pay a net hanger, another job. They must also hire a crew who buys commercial crew licenses from the state, more WA jobs and WA revenue. They have to pay taxes on the diesel they put in their vessel, another tax revenue for the state. Now the boat can go fishing and catch fish, then they must deliver their catch to a processor. That processor will have some type of a tender vessel on the water or a truck at a boat launch/dock to receive that catch. All those people are being employed by this fishery. Next the fish must be processed and then delivered to market, all of which cost money and labor. This is just one big chain reaction that creates jobs and revenue for the state of WA. One commercial fishing vessel through this chain reaction provides more revenue for the state then all the guys standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a rod on the river.
Next the commercial fisheries are an effective management tool for the river systems WHEN they are MANAGED CORRECTLY. If the target species is Chinook salmon they SHOULD restrict the fishery to gillnet gear with a mesh size greater then 7.5", this would allow all smaller salmon to pass through the over sized mesh. Conversely when targeting pinks use mesh NO greater then 4" and so on so that each type of salmon can be targeted more effectively. Also restrict the gillnetters from using monofiliment gear, require the use of 6 or 9 stand gear which may be seen more easily in the water by the fish. Reduce the fishing areas to where the commercial fleet can only effectively catch fish destined for a specific river so they do not intercept fish bound for another, possibly struggling river system. The seine fishery is effective and provides a high quality fish however it cannot selectively fish for certain types of salmon like a gillnet can with gear restrictions. While some may disagree with next statement, it has been historically proven that rivers that obtain over escapement provide a diminished return in the future compared to those meet an optimal escapement goals. So when a certain river system is about to be slammed with fish it is a safe estimate that the recreation fisherman will not be able to stop the flow of fish that could endanger the spawning goal of that river, therefore using commercial fishing to meter the flow of fish into the river system is necessary.
I am by no means saying that commercial fishing should be the only priority of this state, and by all means there are many river systems that cannot handle commercial harvest in this state and they are way below historical escapement numbers and need to be watched closely. However, through proper management and severe modification to this state's management of the salmon there could be a bright future. Perhaps there could be an allocation plan laid out that allots a certain percentage of every run to recreational and commercial fisherman where the run would not be in danger and everyone would get a piece of the pie.
good points and well said. however hard facts aside I would be willing to trade all the fish at the market and jobs commercial fishing provides just so long as my grandkids to be can have a recreational fishery in the future.
I also think we need to take a good hard look at all the fish farms and the immense amounts of damage they are causing to the ecosystem and fisheries.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 02, 2011, 06:46:44 PM
good points and well said. however hard facts aside I would be willing to trade all the fish at the market and jobs commercial fishing provides just so long as my grandkids to be can have a recreational fishery in the future.:yeah:
I also think we need to take a good hard look at all the fish farms and the immense amounts of damage they are causing to the ecosystem and fisheries.From what I've heard/read, most of the 'science' that has come to conclusions about the damage from fish farms was funded by the commercial lobby.
But agree, need to look at fish farms and also the hatcheries. They keep putting more and more hatchery fish in the ocean, but their food sources are shrinking.
Post by: fish vacuum on September 03, 2011, 01:03:01 AM
This state and most others prioritize commercial fishing because they do bring more of an economic benefit to the state
According to the WDFW's economic analysis of non-treaty commercial and recreational fisheries in the state, "Recreational fishing generates the larger share of economic impacts, supporting 12,850 jobs or more than three-quarters of the fishing-related jobs in 2006."
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/pub.php?id=00464 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/pub.php?id=00464)
Post by: longknife on September 03, 2011, 05:56:05 AM
That S#%t just pisses me off and needs to end ASAP! If they want to abuse their rights then they should be dealt with harshly! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
If its government, dosent that make fellonies for this *censored*?
Post by: FC on September 03, 2011, 11:07:11 PM
That S#%t just pisses me off and needs to end ASAP! If they want to abuse their rights then they should be dealt with harshly! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Common stuff dude, have a look around Hood Canal in another couple months! If you do you will find pile after pile....
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 04, 2011, 08:27:35 AM
Don't remember who asked. Someone wanted to see a picture of a pile of salmon on the river bank. I saw this pic from the last humpy season going through on the pic scroll on this site. The pic was taken by forum member cascade. I do not know the details other than it's titled Salmon waste. Anyways for whoever wanted to see a picture of a pile of humpy's, here's one.
that is disgusting! :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: birdmanwa on September 05, 2011, 08:08:09 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 05, 2011, 08:26:30 PM
I'm surprised too how many people just don't seem to care anymore. They just figure the waste and abuse of our resource is just a part of life I guess.
Post by: Kola16 on September 05, 2011, 08:37:36 PM