Post by: Curly on August 29, 2011, 03:51:21 PM
When I was done returning my item, the customer was still outside complaining to a manager about the guy carrying a weapon in the store. He must have been giving the poor manager an earful for quite a while.
Just thought I'd share. Kind of interesting, I thought. Not sure why the guy didn't conceal carry (since he has a CPL) and avoid the hassle, but it is his right and I'm glad there are people out there standing up for their rights.....
Post by: Kain on August 29, 2011, 04:00:09 PM
Post by: Curly on August 29, 2011, 04:02:52 PM
Post by: Kain on August 29, 2011, 04:03:21 PM
Post by: h20hunter on August 29, 2011, 04:05:39 PM
I have said it many times and I'll say it again. The exercising of rights in an inflamatory manner do not help protect anything, only encourage those that disagree to try and have those rights further limited.
Post by: firefighter4607 on August 29, 2011, 04:06:49 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 29, 2011, 04:13:29 PM
Post by: BuckHunter23 on August 29, 2011, 04:22:05 PM
Post by: jrebel on August 29, 2011, 05:44:57 PM
I also have the right to walk around without a shirt.....you wont see me doing that at lowes either. :chuckle: :chuckle: Get my point.
Post by: FC on August 29, 2011, 06:06:43 PM
Post by: runamuk on August 29, 2011, 06:12:31 PM
I'm all for open and conceal carry... With that being said, why open carry places where you know people will be offended. All it does is upset / offend future voters. It does nothing to protect our gun rights. I went to Lowes on my way home from a hike yesterday. I open carry my 1911 on hikes with a high hip holster. I purposely took it out of the holster and left it in my rig with my wife while I went inside. It is not worth offending other to prove we have certain rights.
I also have the right to walk around without a shirt.....you wont see me doing that at lowes either. :chuckle: :chuckle: Get my point.
actually many businesses have signs
no shirt
no shoes
no service
so no right to go shirtless :yike: :chuckle:
and just listen to the hub bub about the bikini barista's you dont have to patronize them but seems the easily offended are out there everywhere just looking for someone to offend them or violate their safety in the case of open carry and their prudishness in the case of bikini clad hotties serving coffee ....
I open carry a rifle in the woods or a shotgun...my pistol is either in a bag or inside a pocket when I carry :dunno:
Post by: jrebel on August 29, 2011, 06:27:16 PM
Oh yeah and I would offend if I wore a bikini as well... :chuckle: :chuckle: However, I love bikini baristas, even if there coffee sucks. :tup:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 29, 2011, 07:06:28 PM
Post by: boneaddict on August 29, 2011, 07:14:46 PM
Quote
I have said it many times and I'll say it again. The exercising of rights in an inflamatory manner do not help protect anything, only encourage those that disagree to try and have those rights further limited.
Perfectly said.
Post by: 44 Flattop on August 29, 2011, 07:18:51 PM
Post by: iusmc2002 on August 29, 2011, 08:06:47 PM
Most people that open carry want the attention. A guy I know is one of them. He purposely wore his gun on the hip and walked into a bank. When they told him he could not carry his weapon in the bank, he demanded that they show him their policy in writing. I do not understand why you'd want to create an issue just because you have the right to do something. The bank produced their policy and then asked him to leave. Which of course caused a scene with others in the bank. I have a CPL as well and would rather go the route of concealing than draw attention to myself. As someone else said, these types of folks only draw negative attention to the issue and can't truly be doing any good for our future rights. Maybe there are some places where this is acceptable, but I am positive I couldn't make it a mile where i live before someone had a cop on my ass. The woods are a different story for me as well.
First off, the guy you know is a complete fool, won't disagree with you there.
You wouldn't make it a mile without having a cop on your ass? So what? If a LEO is in such disregard of the law, maybe you're the one to teach him about it. You can't expect EVERY citizen and EVERY LEO to be aware of the Open Carry law, but why are you afraid of having a cop on your ass because you are excercising a right? Worrying about being ID'd by a possible attacker, I can sort of understand that. Open carry in a store? What's inflammatory about that? Just because Citizen Joe doesn't like it, why should that affect how you carry? So if you won't open carry, or don't think others should open carry because its inflammatory, why even bother to have the law? I believe thats called ATROPHY = Use it or lose it.
Post by: Guy on August 29, 2011, 09:40:36 PM
That said - it does attract attention. Frankly it scares people. Much simpler and easier to just carry concealed. Legal to carry openly? Sure. Smart? I don't know... Cops still have to investigate if someone gets scared and calls 911 and reports a "man with a gun." In fact, that will likely cause quite a response, because cops don't like the idea of someone shooting up a bunch of people in a park, school, store or wherever. All they know when they start for the call is that there's been a "man with a gun" reported. Could be anything from a guy walking down the street to show a new shotgun to his neighbor, to a gang banger looking to shoot somebody.
Regards, Guy
Post by: sirfunkeybut on August 29, 2011, 09:53:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 29, 2011, 09:57:00 PM
Post by: predator guy on August 29, 2011, 10:04:59 PM
If more people would walk around with a handgun plainly visible on their hip, maybe people wouldn't be so jumpy and call the cops so quickly. I think it's a good thing there are people willing to exercise their rights. However, I am not one of them. Just not brave enough I guess, to go walking around town with a .357 on my belt.I agree. The more exposure of your sidearm, then people may become more accustom to seeing one and not be so "offended".
Post by: spookgus on August 29, 2011, 10:08:47 PM
I concur. Exercise your rights as damn well seen fit. There is always going to be some pinko against liberty. In the end the only mortals to answer to is the family.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 29, 2011, 10:19:53 PM
If I was a bad guy and wanted a pistol, I'd rather take it off some *censored* who is wearing it like jewelry in the mall parking lot, than break into a home to try and find one with no idea what might be waiting for me inside. Ask a cop about the effectiveness of a sidearm within 20' of an attacker with a knife - and that's seeing and being aware of the threat coming at you. Open carry in a crowded environment to make a statement, might as well carry unloaded - that way the d-bag who takes your pistol can't shoot you with it.
Post by: stumprat on August 29, 2011, 10:45:32 PM
I was at Costco in Tumwater on Saturday returning something when I overheard a customer complaining to an employee about a person carrying a weapon. Then the pistol packer came over and I overheard him mention that it is within his rights to open carry and besides that he has a conceal carry permit. Then I heard him say something about the other customer had been harassing him about the weapon.........then he walked out of the store.
When I was done returning my item, the customer was still outside complaining to a manager about the guy carrying a weapon in the store. He must have been giving the poor manager an earful for quite a while.
Just thought I'd share. Kind of interesting, I thought. Not sure why the guy didn't conceal carry (since he has a CPL) and avoid the hassle, but it is his right and I'm glad there are people out there standing up for their rights.....
This guy should have known that Costco has always had a no firearm policy. Most of the guys that open carry. Spend alot of time on opencarry.org
Costco's policy has been repeatedly documented there.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 29, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
What bothers me most about Costco is they have no signs posted. They try to slip under the radar. Addressing members one at a time.
The courts have already ruled that carring a firearm in plain view may cause alarm. But that alarm is not warrented. Unless there are other factors. Aggressive behavior, handling the firearm, yelling whatever. Walking around pushing a shopping cart with a holstered gun no problem.
What the concern should be is that while you are exercising your 2A rights another person does not like it so they try to get you in trouble. Maybe someone does not like your T shirt, or what you say or write. Are you willing to give those rights up?
A right is a right and if you do not take it for a walk once in a while than you will loose it. People need to learn to look at the person instead of the gun. What some are arguing here is no different than anti hunting rhetoric. Except hunting is not a protected right under the Constitution.
You do not have to exercise your rights but please do not be willing to give them away just because you are not interested in that right. Because the right you care about will be the next one on the chopping block.
As far as cops. Every police force in this state has been or should have been trained in the law pertaining to open carry. There is no excuse for some of their behavior.
Please be protective of all our rights in this country. They were bought and paid for with American blood.
Post by: Swannytheswan on August 29, 2011, 11:41:23 PM
Well I have been a open carrier for a few years now. And a member of the forum. I do not open carry to draw attention to myself. When I open carry it is because it is the easiest thing to do on that day at that time. I also have a CPL and I go back and forth depending on what I am doing and wearing. As for Costco it is well know that Costco does not allow firearms. Any firearms. It is the policy in all their stores. Do I agree ? Nope but I do not open carry there.
What bothers me most about Costco is they have no signs posted. They try to slip under the radar. Addressing members one at a time.
The courts have already ruled that carring a firearm in plain view may cause alarm. But that alarm is not warrented. Unless there are other factors. Aggressive behavior, handling the firearm, yelling whatever. Walking around pushing a shopping cart with a holstered gun no problem.
What the concern should be is that while you are exercising your 2A rights another person does not like it so they try to get you in trouble. Maybe someone does not like your T shirt, or what you say or write. Are you willing to give those rights up?
A right is a right and if you do not take it for a walk once in a while than you will loose it. People need to learn to look at the person instead of the gun. What some are arguing here is no different than anti hunting rhetoric. Except hunting is not a protected right under the Constitution.
You do not have to exercise your rights but please do not be willing to give them away just because you are not interested in that right. Because the right you care about will be the next one on the chopping block.
As far as cops. Every police force in this state has been or should have been trained in the law pertaining to open carry. There is no excuse for some of their behavior.
Please be protective of all our rights in this country. They were bought and paid for with American blood.
:yeah:
and not to mention those same ppl that are offended by seeing your gun are also offended that you hunt and kill the cute animals. The guy that open carries to offend such as the guy going in the bank to make a scene does hurt the cause but someone just open carrying in lowes or anywhere else does help the cause as more exposure will reduce the number offended (look at the Gay rights movement) In my opinion the guy in costco handled it well he informed of the law and calmly left the store .(i am assuming as I didn't see anything to state the opposite) Does costco have the right to prohibit it? yeah its their business and if you don't like it don't do business with them!
Post by: ghosthunter on August 30, 2011, 07:42:54 AM
My one last thought is this.
Because I am a law abiding citizen of the US (and anyone like me) I should be able to strap on my gun and go coast to coast with no problem at all. No permits, hoops, nothing. Until I prove I am not worthy of that right. There should be no laws that restrict my method of self defense across this country.
Post by: BIGINNER on August 30, 2011, 07:50:02 AM
Any property owner can ask gun carriers to leave. No problem. Any 2A person should leave upon request.
My one last thought is this.
Because I am a law abiding citizen of the US (and anyone like me) I should be able to strap on my gun and go coast to coast with no problem at all. No permits, hoops, nothing. Until I prove I am not worthy of that right. There should be no laws that restrict my method of self defense across this country.
:yeah:
Post by: Curly on August 30, 2011, 08:53:01 AM
In my opinion the guy in costco handled it well he informed of the law and calmly left the store .(i am assuming as I didn't see anything to state the opposite) Does costco have the right to prohibit it? yeah its their business and if you don't like it don't do business with them!
I don't think he was even told to leave, but he did leave anyway (I didn't hear everything that was said though). He sounded a little irritated (and rightly so IMO), but yeah, I think he did the right thing and just left. The guy doing the complaining sounded like a raving lunatic and it seems like he just wouldn't stop talking about it with the manager.
Post by: TheHunt on August 30, 2011, 09:23:28 AM
Post by: high country on August 30, 2011, 09:52:11 AM
Post by: Bustyn on August 30, 2011, 09:58:18 AM
The exercising of rights in an inflamatory manner do not help protect anything, only encourage those that disagree to try and have those rights further limited.
Well said. I generally keep my weapon concealed, and I do not carry in Costco since I am aware of their policy prohibiting firearms in their stores. They have their rights too. I simply do not shop there any longer.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 30, 2011, 12:38:23 PM
The exercising of rights in an inflammatory manner do not help protect anything, only encourage those that disagree to try and have those rights further limited.
Well said. I generally keep my weapon concealed, and I do not carry in Costco since I am aware of their policy prohibiting firearms in their stores. They have their rights too. I simply do not shop there any longer.
If you do not exercise a right because you are afraid some person will be offended, than you have already lost the right. And weakend the Constitution both state and federal.
Post by: h20hunter on August 30, 2011, 12:46:58 PM
You may practice a religion that I do not agree with. However, if you choose to represent the religion outside of your own home or place of worship I will be, or not be, offended, angry, outspoken, or whatever depending on how you choose to exercise that right.
To me, it is simply a manner of tact.
Those with great passion sometimes lack tact.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 30, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
I disagree.
You may practice a religion that I do not agree with. However, if you choose to represent the religion outside of your own home or place of worship I will be, or not be, offended, angry, outspoken, or whatever depending on how you choose to exercise that right.
To me, it is simply a manner of tact.
Those with great passion sometimes lack tact.
As is your right.
People are offended by hunting. It is not a right. Are you going to give it up? Because it offends them.
Post by: h20hunter on August 30, 2011, 01:01:54 PM
I have tact...or at least I try.
Post by: 7mag. on August 30, 2011, 01:03:07 PM
With that said, I carry concealed every where I go. I don't carry openly, because I am not well enough versed in the law, to put a LEO in his place if approached. I don't feel I have enough solid information to defend myself at the scene, to not end up arrested. It is not worth it to me to possibly lose my concealed license, just to make a point. I also am not interested in attracting attention from anyone, especially would be bad guys. I would much rather have the element of surprise on my side in the case of an emergency.
I commend those that carry openly, I wish though, that some of them would be a little less brash, because as some of you have said, they are making it worse, not better. I think attitude plays a big role in touchy subjects such as this one.
Post by: h20hunter on August 30, 2011, 01:07:43 PM
However, you state that you carry concealed......easy enough to do....it is the "screw them" attitude that I don't believe furthers anyones cause.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 30, 2011, 01:09:00 PM
I can't believe some of you people. Since when is it our duty to walk on eggshells to not offend the easily offended? Screw them. All the people that are so easily offended by what other people are doing while minding their own business, need to wake up and mind their own damn business. I don't need someone else telling me how to go about my life, I'm doing just fine.
With that said, I carry concealed every where I go. I don't carry openly, because I am not well enough versed in the law, to put a LEO in his place if approached. I don't feel I have enough solid information to defend myself at the scene, to not end up arrested. It is not worth it to me to possibly lose my concealed license, just to make a point. I also am not interested in attracting attention from anyone, especially would be bad guys. I would much rather have the element of surprise on my side in the case of an emergency.
I commend those that carry openly, I wish though, that some of them would be a little less brash, because as some of you have said, they are making it worse, not better. I think attitude plays a big role in touchy subjects such as this one.
Well said
Every activity has it's good and bad participants.
Exactly my point if I am going about my lawful business it is no ones business but mine or the property owners.
Post by: h20hunter on August 30, 2011, 01:11:04 PM
Post by: 7mag. on August 30, 2011, 01:24:26 PM
The brash "screw you" walking on egg shells mindset is what aggravates issues whether it be gun rights, religion, ford vs. chevy, bud vs. micro brew.
However, you state that you carry concealed......easy enough to do....it is the "screw them" attitude that I don't believe furthers anyones cause.
The screw them attitude comes from being tired of being told what to do while minding my own business. I don't ever tell anyone what they should be doing, as long as they are not affecting me, or breaking the law. I expect the same courtesy.
It is the same for any thing that someone else doesn't care for. If I am in the grocery store in my hunting attire, on my way to or from hunting, and someone starts to tell me how wrong I am for hunting. Or when a liberal family member starts to give me grief for carrying concealed. I am polite at first, to try and keep the peace, but if they persist, screw them. I am not here to make others happy. I always am polite and courteous, but if someone wants to screw with me, well they had better be prepared for me to defend myself.
As for open carry, I truly believe in our rights, but I feel that sometimes you should pick your battles and try and remain tactful and courteous. Without being there, it's hard to say what kind of attitude is presented. I do think that sometimes some people use open carry as a way to get attention, and I believe that hurts the cause. There is a time and place for everything, and sometimes better judgement could be used.
Post by: h20hunter on August 30, 2011, 01:26:18 PM
I agree with that as well.
Post by: iusmc2002 on August 30, 2011, 09:26:51 PM
I can't believe some of you people. Since when is it our duty to walk on eggshells to not offend the easily offended? Screw them. All the people that are so easily offended by what other people are doing while minding their own business, need to wake up and mind their own damn business. I don't need someone else telling me how to go about my life, I'm doing just fine.
With that said, I carry concealed every where I go. I don't carry openly, because I am not well enough versed in the law, to put a LEO in his place if approached. I don't feel I have enough solid information to defend myself at the scene, to not end up arrested. It is not worth it to me to possibly lose my concealed license, just to make a point. I also am not interested in attracting attention from anyone, especially would be bad guys. I would much rather have the element of surprise on my side in the case of an emergency.
I commend those that carry openly, I wish though, that some of them would be a little less brash, because as some of you have said, they are making it worse, not better. I think attitude plays a big role in touchy subjects such as this one.
If you don't feel well versed enough in the law to not get arrested, why do you take the chance of carrying then? I'm not trying to degrade you, please don't take this like that. But, our state law states Open Carry. You have a CHL and carry concealed, that's your choice and works for you. What if you're like "Gramps" a couple posts up and your sidearm is accidentally spotted? What do you do then, when the police show up? I guess a lot of it has to do with how it's called in......
Reality v. Saldana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOoMksr_IeY#ws)
Post by: Tacitus42 on August 31, 2011, 03:24:29 PM
Post by: runamuk on August 31, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on August 31, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
Use it or lose it.
Post by: runamuk on August 31, 2011, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: Curly on August 31, 2011, 07:06:43 PM
How :dunno: in a scenario like mine just how does a person do it....I cant..... so in my case the open carry law doesnt really exist.
Yeah, just like Costco apparently has a policy against it. (Would be nice if they posted a sign so a person knew their rules before walking in).
Sucks that you can't carry at school. With the shooting incidents at schools the last several years, you'd think that more people packing heat would deter shooting like that.
Post by: Special T on August 31, 2011, 07:38:51 PM
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?s=f5b7a1772e082dc14fa8f2dc2d46247f&attachmentid=3385&d=1280151535 (http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?s=f5b7a1772e082dc14fa8f2dc2d46247f&attachmentid=3385&d=1280151535)
Post by: rtspring on August 31, 2011, 07:47:55 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on August 31, 2011, 08:15:00 PM
I do not get that people will walk by 20 or 30 people cc every day and than they see a gun on a guy pushing his kid in a Walmart and come un glued. Really? It's still a gun. Really if I where that afraid of them I would want everyone OC so I could move away from them.
I do not buy the afraid of guns thing. I think it is just people trying to tell other people how they should live.
I am holding hands with H20 on the covering game and stuff like that. I understand the who dead furry creature and blood thing.
But a guy walking down the street with his dog oc in a holster dressed nice and they have to call the cops? Really?
Post by: Alchase on September 01, 2011, 04:43:54 PM
Why do people think one is more important then the others? :dunno:
Post by: 7mag. on September 03, 2011, 03:33:26 PM
I can't believe some of you people. Since when is it our duty to walk on eggshells to not offend the easily offended? Screw them. All the people that are so easily offended by what other people are doing while minding their own business, need to wake up and mind their own damn business. I don't need someone else telling me how to go about my life, I'm doing just fine.
With that said, I carry concealed every where I go. I don't carry openly, because I am not well enough versed in the law, to put a LEO in his place if approached. I don't feel I have enough solid information to defend myself at the scene, to not end up arrested. It is not worth it to me to possibly lose my concealed license, just to make a point. I also am not interested in attracting attention from anyone, especially would be bad guys. I would much rather have the element of surprise on my side in the case of an emergency.
I commend those that carry openly, I wish though, that some of them would be a little less brash, because as some of you have said, they are making it worse, not better. I think attitude plays a big role in touchy subjects such as this one.
If you don't feel well versed enough in the law to not get arrested, why do you take the chance of carrying then? I'm not trying to degrade you, please don't take this like that. But, our state law states Open Carry. You have a CHL and carry concealed, that's your choice and works for you. What if you're like "Gramps" a couple posts up and your sidearm is accidentally spotted? What do you do then, when the police show up? I guess a lot of it has to do with how it's called in......
Reality v. Saldana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOoMksr_IeY#ws)
That's why I don't carry open. I have been approached by police because someone spotted my "concealed" pistol. I produced my permit, and that was the end of it, after they checked me out, and ran the serial number on my pistol.
Post by: Fixnbirds on September 30, 2011, 11:49:46 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 24, 2011, 03:53:22 PM
I was at Costco in Tumwater on Saturday returning something when I overheard a customer complaining to an employee about a person carrying a weapon. Then the pistol packer came over and I overheard him mention that it is within his rights to open carry and besides that he has a conceal carry permit. Then I heard him say something about the other customer had been harassing him about the weapon.........then he walked out of the store.
When I was done returning my item, the customer was still outside complaining to a manager about the guy carrying a weapon in the store. He must have been giving the poor manager an earful for quite a while.
Just thought I'd share. Kind of interesting, I thought. Not sure why the guy didn't conceal carry (since he has a CPL) and avoid the hassle, but it is his right and I'm glad there are people out there standing up for their rights.....
You should have told the manager you saw the person complaining eating produce & stealing merchandise and they that you suspect that they are using someone Else's Costco Card, they also made fun of a disabled child and made racist comments to another member of course then state, I AM VERY OFFENDED. Then, when the "high horse anti gunner" goes, "huh?" State you are now in fear for your safety and need an escort out of the store because of the possible violent intents of the other costumer.
Post by: Savage Hunter on October 25, 2011, 08:51:14 PM
Post by: Special T on October 26, 2011, 08:04:51 AM
Post by: coachcw on October 26, 2011, 09:33:45 AM
Post by: runamuk on October 26, 2011, 09:40:52 AM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on October 26, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
Post by: Special T on October 26, 2011, 09:57:30 AM
(1) It sends the same message as if there was a gun in it.
(2) There is NO WAY a goverment agency can deny a demonstration without huge backlash. A leather or fabric holster cannot hurt anyone anymore that the pen and paper most people carry... :twocents:
Post by: wraithen on November 20, 2011, 12:45:39 AM
Post by: Swannytheswan on November 20, 2011, 03:41:09 PM