Post by: BigTines on August 31, 2011, 08:59:43 AM
So....which do you reccomend? 165 or 180 grain for both deer and elk?? Thanks!
Post by: halflife65 on August 31, 2011, 09:12:09 AM
I would've been happy to use 165s but my rifle didn't seem to shoot them as accurately.
Of course, now I shoot a bow or a .300WSM but I still have the .30-06.
Post by: Dirty Mike on August 31, 2011, 09:23:56 AM
Post by: bobcat on August 31, 2011, 09:27:15 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 31, 2011, 09:55:42 AM
Post by: GoldTip on August 31, 2011, 10:02:39 AM
Post by: woodswalker on August 31, 2011, 10:05:17 AM
If you dont handload, find a factory load that shoots from your rifle..then buy a bunch of it and PRACTICE. Hitting with either weight puts more critters down than missing.
Post by: SkookumJeff on August 31, 2011, 10:50:10 AM
If you're going to use a low price type of bullet (core lokt, power point, etc) go with the heavier 180 grain. If you're going with a more "premium" bullet such as a Nosler Partition or a Barnes, then use 165.
Yeah, economy 165 hunting bullets just won't kill an elk. :rolleyes: ;)
Seriously, different bullet weights have different compromises between downrange energy and velocity (trajectory). I've always considered the 165 grain spitzer an optimal bullet for the .30-06 giving excellent compromise in range, relatively flat trajectory and impact energy. With proper bullet placement any 165 grain spitzer designed for hunting traveling at the velocity the bullet is designed for will kill all big game in north America.
Skook
Post by: high country on August 31, 2011, 10:51:24 AM
Post by: Bofire on August 31, 2011, 10:53:01 AM
Carl
Post by: zackmioli on August 31, 2011, 10:58:41 AM
Post by: C-Money on August 31, 2011, 11:02:15 AM
Post by: bobcat on August 31, 2011, 11:15:40 AM
Quote
If you're going to use a low price type of bullet (core lokt, power point, etc) go with the heavier 180 grain. If you're going with a more "premium" bullet such as a Nosler Partition or a Barnes, then use 165.Yeah, economy 165 hunting bullets just won't kill an elk. :rolleyes: ;)
Seriously, different bullet weights have different compromises between downrange energy and velocity (trajectory). I've always considered the 165 grain spitzer an optimal bullet for the .30-06 giving excellent compromise in range, relatively flat trajectory and impact energy. With proper bullet placement any 165 grain spitzer designed for hunting traveling at the velocity the bullet is designed for will kill all big game in north America.
Skook
That's just kind of a general rule of thumb I'd go by, didn't mean to say it's the only right answer. I like using premium bullets for elk, and the reason I would go lighter than 180 is only for the reduced recoil. I would actually go with a 150 grain Barnes if it would shoot in my rifle. But i do believe if you're using "soft" bullets like the Core-Lokts, you might as well go with the 180. There's no downside to it, the 180 will shoot just as far as any other weight.
Post by: addicted on August 31, 2011, 11:19:19 AM
Post by: Goldeneye on August 31, 2011, 01:47:44 PM
Post by: FALFire on August 31, 2011, 02:33:48 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 31, 2011, 06:11:10 PM
Post by: Curly on August 31, 2011, 06:41:25 PM
I am no 06 fan but I would go with the 180 :twocents: it seems to drop sheet better than the lighter bullets .....at least a few of my 06 buddies tell me!
With you being a 140 gr 270 Win fan, I would assume you would be a fan of 165 gr Hornady's in the 30-06. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on August 31, 2011, 06:51:53 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 31, 2011, 06:53:15 PM
I am no 06 fan but I would go with the 180 :twocents: it seems to drop sheet better than the lighter bullets .....at least a few of my 06 buddies tell me !:yike: not a 06 fan :bdid: Thats just not american :chuckle:
Post by: youngbuckslayer on August 31, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
Post by: addicted on August 31, 2011, 08:17:51 PM
My answer is...you'll get at least four pages of opinions. :chuckle:
and you still won't know which one is better. :chuckle:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 31, 2011, 08:35:59 PM
Curly ...you may have got me on this one ....I really can not tell ya ... Maybe because the 06 is so popular I have to hate it :chuckle: :chuckle: Maybe if everyone did shoot hornadays I would not hear all the negitive issues with an 06....But seriously It has alot to do with bullets and shot placement ... I can not handle hearing someone tell me they shot something behind the shoulder and they lost it ......if an animal is hit threw the vitals there is no way he will live ...same with a sharp broadhead , if its hit solid it is not going far UNLESS YOU GO AND CHASE IT ONCE YOU HIT IT... THEN YOU MAY LOOSE IT !!!! Always give it time to expire ...like an hour if it is a solid kill shot ....I only shoot bear in the shoulders because I do not like chasing them with brush over my head ..at least a shoulder shot on bear gives me the chance to shoot him again if needed but not to often do I need to shoot twice :twocents:I am no 06 fan but I would go with the 180 :twocents: it seems to drop sheet better than the lighter bullets .....at least a few of my 06 buddies tell me!
With you being a 140 gr 270 Win fan, I would assume you would be a fan of 165 gr Hornady's in the 30-06. :dunno:
Post by: SkookumJeff on August 31, 2011, 08:56:17 PM
That's just kind of a general rule of thumb I'd go by, didn't mean to say it's the only right answer. ~
Sorry Bobcat, just my poor attempt at some humor, I couldn't help myself when I saw your comment. 150, 165, 180 grain, whatever works for ya, just put the bullet in the right place and that critter will drop....spending enough time with the rifle to get proficient with it is a lot more important in my humble opinion than the difference between 165 and 180 grain bullets.
I wonder how many elk have been taken with the 30-06 Springfield since it's been used as a hunting cartridge? My first 'real' hunting rifle was an aught six...
.. the 'aught six'....the cartridge that helped win the great war.
God bless America.
Skook
Post by: bobcat on August 31, 2011, 09:15:29 PM
Quote
150, 165, 180 grain, whatever works for ya, just put the bullet in the right place and that critter will drop
The problem is what about when you don't put the bullet in the right place? I mean if you could always guarantee the bullet would go in precisely the right spot, then you'd be just fine with a 243 and an 80 grain bullet. I like the 30-06, I don't think there is a better all around big game cartridge. But I really think it's at its best with the 180 grain bullets (for elk). If you're talking about deer, well, then it really doesn't make a bit of difference. For deer you really just want the most accurate bullet you can get. And as I said, if you go with more of a "premium" bullet, then a 150 is just fine.
Post by: follow maggie on August 31, 2011, 09:20:18 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 01, 2011, 03:33:04 AM
Skook Your right ... But we all have our favorite rifle ....and its our nature to dislike what someone else likes .... But thats all good thats what makes this world turn :chuckle: :tup:Quote
That's just kind of a general rule of thumb I'd go by, didn't mean to say it's the only right answer. ~
Sorry Bobcat, just my poor attempt at some humor, I couldn't help myself when I saw your comment. 150, 165, 180 grain, whatever works for ya, just put the bullet in the right place and that critter will drop....spending enough time with the rifle to get proficient with it is a lot more important in my humble opinion than the difference between 165 and 180 grain bullets.
I wonder how many elk have been taken with the 30-06 Springfield since it's been used as a hunting cartridge? My first 'real' hunting rifle was an aught six...
.. the 'aught six'....the cartridge that helped win the great war.
God bless America.
Skook
Post by: high country on September 01, 2011, 07:16:35 AM
Quote150, 165, 180 grain, whatever works for ya, just put the bullet in the right place and that critter will drop
The problem is what about when you don't put the bullet in the right place? I mean if you could always guarantee the bullet would go in precisely the right spot, then you'd be just fine with a 243 and an 80 grain bullet. I like the 30-06, I don't think there is a better all around big game cartridge. But I really think it's at its best with the 180 grain bullets (for elk). If you're talking about deer, well, then it really doesn't make a bit of difference. For deer you really just want the most accurate bullet you can get. And as I said, if you go with more of a "premium" bullet, then a 150 is just fine.
you will find many guys making up poor off season practice by shooting 3380eargasplittinloudenboomers. a good hit starts at the trigger man, if he lets fly a scabby shot, he should expect scabby results, bullet size, weight and speed be damned.
Post by: bobcat on September 01, 2011, 07:18:54 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 01, 2011, 07:30:58 AM
My answer is...you'll get at least four pages of opinions. :chuckle:
I can't believe it went 2 pages so far. What could the difference possibly be when shooting a deer between a 165 grn bullet and a 180. Especially when you can kill the same deer regularly with a bullet half that size out of a .243. It's more about bullet quality and what your gun shoots better than 165 or 180 grains. This thread would be much more meaningfull to me if we were talking about which bullet brand to use than the weight difference for a deer.
I really liked the Barnes TSX in 165 or 168 grain, I can't remember now. My A-bolt really liked them. The .30 cal bullet of choice for me now is the 180 grain Accubond.
There, that ought to get it to 4 pages.
:)
Post by: bobcat on September 01, 2011, 07:33:33 AM
Post by: high country on September 01, 2011, 07:54:34 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 01, 2011, 07:56:32 AM
:chuckle: :yeah:My answer is...you'll get at least four pages of opinions. :chuckle:
I can't believe it went 2 pages so far. What could the difference possibly be when shooting a deer between a 165 grn bullet and a 180. Especially when you can kill the same deer regularly with a bullet half that size out of a .243. It's more about bullet quality and what your gun shoots better than 165 or 180 grains. This thread would be much more meaningfull to me if we were talking about which bullet brand to use than the weight difference for a deer.
I really liked the Barnes TSX in 165 or 168 grain, I can't remember now. My A-bolt really liked them. The .30 cal bullet of choice for me now is the 180 grain Accubond.
There, that ought to get it to 4 pages.
:)
Post by: one-eyed Ross on September 01, 2011, 08:03:10 AM
(have I included everything?) :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on September 01, 2011, 08:04:25 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 01, 2011, 08:05:35 AM
Quote
you know in places like ak and mt, they have found their animals to die regularly with 22 centerfires.....heck, the natives in the village kill a ton of stuff with rimfires.
Sure, and fiberglass sticks with sharp metal points on them also kill a lot of animals (arrows). But he asked about what to use in a 30-06. I suppose we could try to convince him that a 30-06 is much too big for elk. But I've never been a believer in "overkill". When choosing a bullet it's not just how well it will kill, it's also how well will it shoot? I like heavier bullets for their better ballistic coefficient. It may not make a big difference but a better BC certainly doesn't hurt. And, as I said, there isn't a downside to using a 180 grain in the 30-06. Other than possibly recoil, if that's an issue.
Post by: jackelope on September 01, 2011, 08:07:12 AM
He was asking for deer AND elk.My opinion stands, even if he said "deer, bear, elk, moose, sheep and goats"
Post by: bobcat on September 01, 2011, 08:12:02 AM
Quote
My opinion stands, even if he said "deer, bear, elk, moose, sheep and goats"
And I do agree. 15 grains of bullet weight is not significant. I haven't had time to do it yet, but I plan to work up a load for elk with my 30-06, using a 150 grain Barnes. As you said, it's not the weight that matters, it's the quality of the bullet and how well it shoots in your particular rifle. (are we up to 4 pages yet) :chuckle:
Post by: one-eyed Ross on September 01, 2011, 08:16:05 AM
Post by: Curly on September 01, 2011, 08:16:18 AM
(that should get it up over 4 pages now)
;)
Post by: bobcat on September 01, 2011, 08:20:12 AM
Post by: Curly on September 01, 2011, 08:23:17 AM
Post by: high country on September 01, 2011, 08:51:24 AM
Another thing.......if you use core lokts, you better like eating lead fragments. :twocents:
good reason to take a clean lung shot.....no meat to lose
Post by: Curly on September 01, 2011, 08:53:17 AM
Post by: addicted on September 01, 2011, 10:30:51 AM
A gut shot is a gut shot, 15 grains wont make a difference. Marksmanship kills better than energy and hydrostatic shock(fast) combined. :chuckle:
I'm feeling kinda trollish today. :dunno:
Post by: addicted on September 01, 2011, 10:31:23 AM
Post by: Curly on September 01, 2011, 10:43:19 AM
4 pages ;)
Good job. :tup:
I'm surprised we couldn't get much of an argument over core-lokt bullets. There are a ton of people who swear by them.......and a few (like me) who swear at them......
Post by: addicted on September 01, 2011, 11:23:14 AM
i could probably add 4 more pages........ remington sucks, ruger sucks, winchester sucks, mariners suck, and leupold has 3rd rate glass. :yike:
Post by: gaddy on September 01, 2011, 11:31:37 AM
Post by: SkookumJeff on September 01, 2011, 12:10:14 PM
Now then, where's my .45-70 and 500 grain solids, I see a coyote in the front yard..... :)
Post by: high country on September 01, 2011, 12:15:22 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 01, 2011, 03:53:36 PM
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 02:10:32 AM
I'm feeling kinda trollish today. :dunno:
Leave it to the pros unless you enjoy seeing "an error has occured". :chuckle:
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 02:15:22 AM
Bobcat...you've been right all along!
He's blushing now...
Post by: addicted on September 02, 2011, 02:22:37 AM
I'm feeling kinda trollish today. :dunno:
Leave it to the pros unless you enjoy seeing "an error has occured". :chuckle:
you know someone did a good job of pissing the mods off when everyone within a thousand miles gets blocked because of it.
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 02:24:20 AM
:chuckle:
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 02:31:31 AM
http://www.huntfishnw.com/index.php?topic=273.msg2703#msg2703 (http://www.huntfishnw.com/index.php?topic=273.msg2703#msg2703)
Post by: addicted on September 02, 2011, 02:46:46 AM
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 03:00:14 AM
Chamber the 165 grain, then follow it up with a 180, then 160, then 180, etc...
It's the best of both worlds. :chuckle:
Post by: addicted on September 02, 2011, 03:21:57 AM
Post by: Miles on September 02, 2011, 03:27:59 AM
Post by: high country on September 02, 2011, 06:03:27 AM
That should help.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 02, 2011, 07:09:09 AM
remington core lokt's are one of the few factory loads i can get for a 7x64 so i was considering giving them a try..... unil i found some nice hornady's for the same price.
i could probably add 4 more pages........ remington sucks, ruger sucks, winchester sucks, mariners suck, and leupold has 3rd rate glass. :yike:
[/quote hahahaha Core lokts definately suck :chuckle: just like shooting a granade ...it just blows sheet to pieces :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on September 02, 2011, 08:09:27 AM
Sticking with the thread topic and attempting to bring us into the 5 page status, I'll recomend alternating the rounds in your rifle.
Chamber the 165 grain, then follow it up with a 180, then 160, then 180, etc...
It's the best of both worlds. :chuckle:
Rotate softs and solids too? Or no need to worry about that with bucks and bulls...maybe only if they're in the rut and a little unpredictable?
Post by: shootem on September 03, 2011, 02:07:50 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on September 03, 2011, 04:03:19 AM
I am no 06 fan but I would go with the 180 :twocents: it seems to drop sheet better than the lighter bullets .....at least a few of my 06 buddies tell me !:yike: not a 06 fan :bdid: Thats just not american :chuckle:
+1
.. the 'aught six'....the cartridge that helped win the great war.:salute:
God bless America.
...
Post by: Bean Counter on September 03, 2011, 04:07:55 AM
In the 06 trajectory difference between 165 and 180 is virtually zero. The 180 is better at long ranges. I'd use the 180 if my rifle shot them well.
Carl
I shoot the cheap Federal Power Shok's from my .30-06. I've posted the same question regarding 150 grain vs 180 grain. I was surprised to read on Federal's website that the difference in trajectory at 300 yards, with a 200 yard zero, is less than an inch. It was only three inches at four hundred yards. After learning this I will slowly deplete my 150 grain supply on dogs and target practice and will exclusively run a 180 grain inventory from now on.
To the 'cheap' haters, I'll say this: The farthest I can shoot at my range is 550 yards. Last week I was shooting these cheap rounds, from an old Ruger M77, with a basic Leupold duplex reticle scope and no bipod, hitting an iron disc with a 12" radius 3 shots out of 4. Talk all you want about 'bullet design' but to me the round obviously has decent aero dynamics and consistent powder charge.
There :stirthepot: ... That should keep it going :chuckle:
Post by: shabbydu on September 03, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Post by: Curly on September 03, 2011, 06:20:19 AM
To the 'cheap' haters, I'll say this: The farthest I can shoot at my range is 550 yards. Last week I was shooting these cheap rounds, from an old Ruger M77, with a basic Leupold duplex reticle scope and no bipod, hitting an iron disc with a 12" radius 3 shots out of 4. Talk all you want about 'bullet design' but to me the round obviously has decent aero dynamics and consistent powder charge.
There :stirthepot: ... That should keep it going :chuckle:
Well, the "cheap" bullets usually shoot very accurately, just don't hold together so well once hitting game. So, when going with Remington Core-lokt, Fed Power Shok, or Winchester Power Points, you just have to be aware that the bullet may not hold together. So, what you need to do is: 1)shoot heavy for caliber bullets so that the impact velocity will be slower 2) shoot heavy for caliber bullets so that there is more weight available for penetration after the bullet sheds 50% of its weight, and 3) make sure that your shot placement is right on; (double lung, or head/neck).
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 03, 2011, 07:40:48 AM
Post by: high country on September 04, 2011, 06:23:03 AM
Post by: Curly on September 04, 2011, 06:50:12 AM
I heard a 150 will bounce right off and a 180 will plow tip to stern. It has to be the extra 30 grains....makes pretty good sense as it is an extra 3/700th of a pound.
Nope, I think you heard wrong. The extra 0.000002 Tons for the 180 gr causes it to be slow enough out of the 30-06 that bullet doesn't disintegrate like the faster 150 gr might (with a Core-Lokt type bullet anyway).
Now if we're talking bonded bullets or solid copper bullets, then the 150gr could be a good choice.....
Post by: addicted on September 04, 2011, 06:53:01 AM
I heard a 150 will bounce right off and a 180 will plow tip to stern. It has to be the extra 30 grains....makes pretty good sense as it is an extra 3/700th of a pound.
Nope, I think you heard wrong. The extra 0.000002 Tons for the 180 gr causes it to be slow enough out of the 30-06 that bullet doesn't disintegrate like the faster 150 gr might (with a Core-Lokt type bullet anyway).
Now if we're talking bonded bullets or solid copper bullets, then the 150gr could be a good choice.....
if you want a quick kill, it's gotta be a tracer.
Post by: high country on September 04, 2011, 07:00:58 AM
I forgot that the 100fps difference was the difference between retension and disintegration.I heard a 150 will bounce right off and a 180 will plow tip to stern. It has to be the extra 30 grains....makes pretty good sense as it is an extra 3/700th of a pound.
Nope, I think you heard wrong. The extra 0.000002 Tons for the 180 gr causes it to be slow enough out of the 30-06 that bullet doesn't disintegrate like the faster 150 gr might (with a Core-Lokt type bullet anyway).
Now if we're talking bonded bullets or solid copper bullets, then the 150gr could be a good choice.....
Post by: Curly on September 04, 2011, 07:12:50 AM
I forgot that the 100fps difference was the difference between retension and disintegration.
Should be closer to a 200 fps difference between the 150 and 180.
Maybe I was unlucky and shot a deer with titanium ribs, but the 150gr Core-lokt blew apart after hitting that rib on the way in. I won't use 150gr Core-Lokts in the -06. I read somewhere that those type of bullets should be limited to around 2800 fps MV..........
Post by: addicted on September 04, 2011, 07:50:05 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 04, 2011, 08:05:00 AM
Curly ....all my bad information on an 06 has been from a 150 gr core lokt ...including one of my uncles in P.A which I have witnessed blowing shoulders off whities and watching them go like a bad out of h&ll...plus I remember one occasion where I dumped a doe and the others ran to him within 10 ft he shoots the deer flips inside out then gets up and takes off .... I ran up to him to Find pieces of bone literally imbedded in the bark of birch tree ....bleD for about 100 yrds then nothen ...true story BUT I am not sure exactely where he hit it ...I am sure at close range like that he just pulled up saw hair and shot ...Since I dumped mine at about 150 on a dead run with a .243 using a 100 gr bullet......I forgot that the 100fps difference was the difference between retension and disintegration.
Should be closer to a 200 fps difference between the 150 and 180.
Maybe I was unlucky and shot a deer with titanium ribs, but the 150gr Core-lokt blew apart after hitting that rib on the way in. I won't use 150gr Core-Lokts in the -06. I read somewhere that those type of bullets should be limited to around 2800 fps MV..........
Post by: high country on September 04, 2011, 09:31:42 AM
I forgot that the 100fps difference was the difference between retension and disintegration.
Should be closer to a 200 fps difference between the 150 and 180.
Depends on how close to the muzzle you measure velocity.