Post by: briancorneal on September 10, 2011, 09:50:47 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 10, 2011, 09:52:15 AM
I even called the St. Helens treefarm hotline before I left. So here I am at home with no elk, all tags intact, and 360 miles worth of gas spent. Weyerhauser, I strongly dislike you right now. You better be open next week!
When did you call the hotline? They updated it on Thursday the 8th, and it said that the tree farm was closed to all hunting. You must have called on Wednesday?
Post by: shorthair15 on September 10, 2011, 10:24:03 AM
Post by: Bigfoot_44 on September 10, 2011, 12:11:08 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 10, 2011, 12:12:19 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 10, 2011, 12:18:54 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on September 10, 2011, 01:46:26 PM
Post by: Crunchy on September 10, 2011, 02:15:06 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 10, 2011, 02:27:29 PM
State land in Toutle is open??
Private timber land is the only thing closed. NF and State land is open.
Post by: bobcat on September 10, 2011, 02:31:10 PM
State land in Toutle is open??
Sure it's open, but you can't get to it. Unless you have a helicopter drop you off.
Post by: Bigshooter on September 10, 2011, 02:34:28 PM
Post by: briancorneal on September 10, 2011, 03:03:14 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 10, 2011, 03:19:54 PM
Timber compaines are not suppose to be able to block off state land.
There is a ton of landlocked (no access) state land in this state, mainly DNR land. People need to remember that DNR land is not solely for recreation, but to generate revenue (mainly in timber).
Post by: Bigshooter on September 10, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
Timber compaines are not suppose to be able to block off state land.
There is a ton of landlocked (no access) state land in this state, mainly DNR land. People need to remember that DNR land is not solely for recreation, but to generate revenue (mainly in timber).
I talked to A lady that was working for DNR a couple years ago and she told me that if there is state land, that any private timber company has to give access through there land to the state land. Road access. You can't cut through land that is closed unless its a road.
Post by: bobcat on September 10, 2011, 05:02:46 PM
Timber compaines are not suppose to be able to block off state land.
There is a ton of landlocked (no access) state land in this state, mainly DNR land. People need to remember that DNR land is not solely for recreation, but to generate revenue (mainly in timber).
I talked to A lady that was working for DNR a couple years ago and she told me that if there is state land, that any private timber company has to give access through there land to the state land. Road access. You can't cut through land that is closed unless its a road.
That's not true. Especially for recreational access. The DNR generally always gets right of way through private timber company lands, for purposes of timber harvest and other land management activities. The right of ways through private land are not necessarily open for the public for recreational access. I know of lots of DNR land in this area that does not have any public access. And there are even more areas in which the only access is through private land such as Weyerhaeuser, and if Weyerhaeuser is not allowing recreational access on their land, then you simply cannot hunt the state land. (unless you have a way to fly in to it)
Post by: funkster on September 10, 2011, 05:11:48 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 10, 2011, 05:23:02 PM
It sucks yes, but we all know that this is a concern each year at this time of year. It is private land and can be closed at the discretion of the timber companies at any time. Everyone that hunts early bow on private timber land is in the same boat, lots of blood,sweet,tears and money goes into elk hunting and we dont need 2,500 threads crying about it. Their property is their property and it is more than that, it is their business and livelihood. If a fire did break out it would cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. I thank the timber companies for atleast giving me an opportunity to have access to their land. They keep the hotline updated so if you didn't check it before you left, than dislike yourself. Remember it is a privilege to hunt their landYep guess that clears it up ...... :dunno:
Post by: bloodhound on September 11, 2011, 12:01:22 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on September 11, 2011, 05:18:49 AM
i was informed a few years back when my dad got drawn for there that they let in the permit hunters still even if its closed. you just have to go through a special gate. and you cant camp.
Not when its closed due to fire danger. But otherwise they do,do that.
Post by: Trailstrider on September 11, 2011, 07:26:44 AM
We all have to live with the hot weather, just pray for early rain....
Note of thought;
Grass takes one hour of full rain to be fire resistant
Small sticks and twigs 10 hours
Bigger branches and small trees 100 hours
Logs and trees 1000 hours.....
We dont need a fire with resorces in the state streached thin fighting the fires we curently have!
Post by: FSTaxidermy on September 11, 2011, 07:54:56 AM
Ditto :twocents:It sucks yes, but we all know that this is a concern each year at this time of year. It is private land and can be closed at the discretion of the timber companies at any time. Everyone that hunts early bow on private timber land is in the same boat, lots of blood,sweet,tears and money goes into elk hunting and we dont need 2,500 threads crying about it. Their property is their property and it is more than that, it is their business and livelihood. If a fire did break out it would cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. I thank the timber companies for atleast giving me an opportunity to have access to their land. They keep the hotline updated so if you didn't check it before you left, than dislike yourself. Remember it is a privilege to hunt their landYep guess that clears it up ...... :dunno:
Post by: Hunter Dug on September 13, 2011, 10:04:28 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on September 13, 2011, 10:10:58 AM
Post by: bigtex on September 13, 2011, 10:13:54 AM
Hurts my head to hear guys throw there whole hunt away because you have no idea what is going on in the unit you apply for.
:yeah:
One of my biggest pet peeves.
Post by: PolarBear on September 13, 2011, 10:19:05 AM
Mine as well!
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 10:36:18 AM
Quote
There is a ton of state land in the Toutle unit that is open right now with plenty of access. 3000 road, 4200 road, 4250 road, 2700 road, rock creek road . You guys just need to do your homework.
Do you know that for a fact? If people do their "homework" by calling the access hotline, it says the "public access corridors are closed due to extreme fire danger." Which means you can't get on any of the roads you mentioned, except Rock Creek, since you don't have to go through Weyerhaeuser to get on that road.
If these roads are open like you say, it is contrary to what the Weyerhaeuser access hotline is saying. I just called and it says the public access corridors are generally open, EXCEPT during "extreme fire danger". And in another part of the message, it says the St Helens tree farm is closed to ALL recreational access, due to "extreme fire danger".
Post by: Hunter Dug on September 13, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 01:09:12 PM
In 2001, I had an archery bull permit for Toutle. The gate on the 4100 road was closed and Weyerhaeuser security was guarding the gate, to be sure nobody parked there and walked in. That's right, I couldn't even walk in to hunt the state land.
However, I complained about this to the WDFW, and did get my 9 points back.
Post by: Hunter Dug on September 13, 2011, 01:25:52 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 01:35:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 01:47:37 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 13, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Believe me, in 2001 there was no way to get to the state land. I had scouted many weekends all summer long, and they shut it down just before hunting season. The gate I'm referring to is the first gate as your driving in along the South Fork Toutle River. If that gate is open now, then yes, you can drive into the large block of state land. But in 2001, that gate was closed, locked, and being guarded by Weyerhaeuser security. The guy actually told me that I should go hunt the Ryderwood unit. :bash:
I have never ever, ever seen this closed ever. Even in 04 when weyerhaeuser shut everything down in there when St. Helens woke up, this was open because of the state land. I know I had a tag and I called DNR.
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 01:53:10 PM
Quote
I have never ever, ever seen this closed ever. Even in 04 when weyerhaeuser shut everything down in there when St. Helens woke up, this was open because of the state land. I know I had a tag and I called DNR.
Yep, it sure sucks for me. I've never heard of it being closed since then either. I take it you weren't there in 2001?
Like I said, the WDFW did give me my nine points back, which allowed me to draw a Peaches Ridge muzzleloader permit the following year.
Post by: Hunter Dug on September 13, 2011, 01:56:18 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 13, 2011, 01:56:56 PM
QuoteI have never ever, ever seen this closed ever. Even in 04 when weyerhaeuser shut everything down in there when St. Helens woke up, this was open because of the state land. I know I had a tag and I called DNR.
Yep, it sure sucks for me. I've never heard of it being closed since then either. I take it you weren't there in 2001?
Like I said, the WDFW did give me my nine points back, which allowed me to draw a Peaches Ridge muzzleloader permit the following year.
I wasn't in there in 2001 but I was in there in 96 and either 98 or 99 with a couple different buddies that drew archery tags. And both years weyerhaeuser shut down, but you could still get on the state land.
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 02:00:57 PM
Quote
I wasn't in there in 2001 but I was in there in 96 and either 98 or 99 with a couple different buddies that drew archery tags. And both years weyerhaeuser shut down, but you could still get on the state land.
I know. I've heard that from others as well. The one year that I drew a Toutle tag and it was the only year the entire unit was off limits. (except for possibly Rock Creek in the south end of the unit.)
But like I said before, from the Weyerhauser message, it sounds like that access corridor is closed right now. Maybe the gate is open, but the message says you can't drive on that road. :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 02:06:48 PM
Quote
Ah I see what your saying so. Yesterday there was no gate from the asphalt to the 4200 road. But If I understand correctly your saying that as soon as you turn off the asphalt and start following the south fork then you are on Weyerhauser land, which would prevent you from getting to the 4200 road leading to state land. I was always under the impression that was state land leading to Weyerhauser land.That's right. I couldn't get to the 4200. And to get to state land, you have to go 3 or 4 miles up the 4200 before you get to it.
Post by: Bigshooter on September 13, 2011, 02:11:38 PM
QuoteI wasn't in there in 2001 but I was in there in 96 and either 98 or 99 with a couple different buddies that drew archery tags. And both years weyerhaeuser shut down, but you could still get on the state land.
I know. I've heard that from others as well. The one year that I drew a Toutle tag and it was the only year the entire unit was off limits. (except for possibly Rock Creek in the south end of the unit.)
But like I said before, from the Weyerhauser message, it sounds like that access corridor is closed right now. Maybe the gate is open, but the message says you can't drive on that road. :dunno:
Your probably right about the access. Maybe I was trespassing those times. :dunno: I just hope we get some rain before muzzy season starts.
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote
Your probably right about the access. Maybe I was trespassing those times.
No, you were probably fine. I know a lot of years Weyerhaeuser has closed their land to hunting but specifically said the public access corridors are open. This year, the message doesn't say that, but the gate is apparently open, so I'm not sure.
Either way, the archery Toutle permits now have a late season in December, so if they can't, or don't hunt now, they will still have 2 weeks in December. (which means people can't ask for their points to be reinstated, like I did)
Post by: Arteman on September 13, 2011, 03:06:36 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 03:24:41 PM
How am I "way wrong"? I know for a fact access to the state land was closed in 2001. I was there, and so was the Weyerhaeuser security guy at the gate. If you listen to the message on the hotline it indicates that the public access corridors are closed during periods of extreme fire danger, which is the reason they give for Weyerhaeuser land being closed to all recreation currently. So I take it to mean that the "public access corridor" is closed. Whether it is locked up or not, I don't know, because I haven't been down there. If it really is open, they should make that more clear in the message so people with special elk permits don't have to waste a trip down there to find out.
So are you telling me that I COULD HAVE got into the block of state land in 2001? If so, how do you suggest I could have gotten past the guard at the locked gate?
Post by: Arteman on September 13, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 04:09:15 PM
Quote
There is a gate right pass the tracks on the 4100 but I've never seen it shut, are you sure you didn't miss your turn and come to the 4100 bridge gate that takes you into weco?
Yes, I'm sure. I had maps and GPS, and like I said, I scouted that state land all spring/summer, figuring that if the Weyerhaeuser got shut down I'd still be able to hunt the state land. I knew the way into the state land. This was the very first gate, near the big Weyerhaeuser sign. I stopped at the gate and talked to the Weyerhaeuser guy who was sitting in his truck guarding the gate. I told him I just wanted to get to the state land. He told me I couldn't get there.
It seems weird to me that nobody else can recall being locked out of the state land in there, in 2001. That was the reason the WDFW gave me my points back.
Also, why does the access hotline say the public access corridors are now closed, if they are not?
Post by: Curly on September 13, 2011, 04:15:00 PM
Also, why does the access hotline say the public access corridors are now closed, if they are not?
Good question.
Post by: bobcat on September 13, 2011, 04:48:58 PM
Post by: Crunchy on September 13, 2011, 07:33:38 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 14, 2011, 02:05:26 PM
Because Weyerhaeuser’s private timberlands have been closed to public access, the Department of Natural Resources block of state lands in that area are inaccessible.
Post by: bobcat on September 14, 2011, 02:10:46 PM
Quote
Because Weyerhaeuser’s private timberlands have been closed to public access, the Department of Natural Resources block of state lands in that area are inaccessible........ except by helicopter
:chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on September 14, 2011, 02:14:55 PM
QuoteBecause Weyerhaeuser’s private timberlands have been closed to public access, the Department of Natural Resources block of state lands in that area are inaccessible........ except by helicopter
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Mr T on September 14, 2011, 03:37:28 PM
It sucks yes, but we all know that this is a concern each year at this time of year. It is private land and can be closed at the discretion of the timber companies at any time. Everyone that hunts early bow on private timber land is in the same boat, lots of blood,sweet,tears and money goes into elk hunting and we dont need 2,500 threads crying about it. Their property is their property and it is more than that, it is their business and livelihood. If a fire did break out it would cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. I thank the timber companies for atleast giving me an opportunity to have access to their land. They keep the hotline updated so if you didn't check it before you left, than dislike yourself. Remember it is a privilege to hunt their landYep guess that clears it up ...... :dunno:
Yep, that is what I had to explain to myself as I read the notice Thursday evening. My little trailer was packed, with valueables waiting by the door to leave the next morning. I just sat and giggled uncontrollably on the couch. My wife asked if I was going to get mad, and I just continued to laugh uncontollably. Oh well it was only 8 years worth of points. Hopefully it stays closed until late season :chuckle:
Post by: Trailstrider on September 15, 2011, 08:27:34 PM