Post by: longknife on September 11, 2011, 05:05:28 AM
Post by: Bigtine96 on September 11, 2011, 05:46:59 AM
Post by: Buckslaya on September 11, 2011, 08:48:55 AM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
I guess you dont like indians
Post by: runamuk on September 11, 2011, 08:53:54 AM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
I guess you dont like indians
Its probably more so the nets he doesnt like, they are everywhere. and its funny (not haha funny) because much of the gorge you are told how to decorate your yard and how to build so as not to ruin the scenic nature then the river is littered with nets and chunks of styrofoam and plastic used as cheap bouy's...I cant believe the amount of abandoned net there is on the shorelines and in the rivers you snag up in it constantly. This isnt second hand this is my personal experience this summer....the netting on the Columbia is ridiculous...
Post by: Hunterman on September 11, 2011, 09:31:48 AM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: birdmanwa on September 11, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
*censored* sir *censored* :tup:
yes it is. The indains netting this year is out of control. They are netting what seems like everyday. It's amazing how some fish are getting by. They have no respect for nature, like they claim. The Indains are the worst thing for our natural resource
Post by: HntnFsh on September 11, 2011, 10:51:07 AM
Post by: NWBREW on September 11, 2011, 11:44:28 AM
Only some of them.Some are way better than our infamous WDFW!
Very true indeed.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 11, 2011, 12:00:35 PM
Post by: Caseyd on September 11, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
No marker :dunno: probably didn't know he was on it until it was to late.
Post by: NWBREW on September 11, 2011, 12:15:27 PM
give them a new G-LOOMIS ROD and a hook and we all live happily ever after :chuckle:
I would too. :chuckle:
Post by: longknife on September 11, 2011, 12:30:02 PM
Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
No marker :dunno: probably didn't know he was on it until it was to late.
exactly the case, so i trimmed as far as i could go before impact, and hammered down, thanks for the dad help hunterman tony! Like i would do it intentionaly to *censored* up my 8k outboard. When it happens to you, you can do what the hell you want, i will do what i do.
Post by: logger on September 11, 2011, 12:38:53 PM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
The only thing that pisses me off about this is, it wasn't me. good job. :tup: :tup: run is spot on the gorge is full of people tellin you how to live, but take one look at some of places where the fresh fish signs are, I wouldn't let my dog eat there, pretty damn dirty
Post by: NRA4LIFE on September 11, 2011, 12:44:31 PM
Post by: longknife on September 11, 2011, 01:05:57 PM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
I guess you dont like indians
Honestly, theres a dirtbag croud in every race! Then there are respectful citizens that deserve our respect, in EVERY race. Its just hard to find the respectable ones!
Post by: Huntbear on September 11, 2011, 02:40:31 PM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
The only thing that pisses me off about this is, it wasn't me. good job. :tup: :tup: run is spot on the gorge is full of people tellin you how to live, but take one look at some of places where the fresh fish signs are, I wouldn't let my dog eat there, pretty damn dirty
:yeah: :yeah:
x2
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 09:01:35 AM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
The only thing that pisses me off about this is, it wasn't me. good job. :tup: :tup: run is spot on the gorge is full of people tellin you how to live, but take one look at some of places where the fresh fish signs are, I wouldn't let my dog eat there, pretty damn dirty
:yeah: :yeah:
x2
I agree that it's there fault for not properly marking their nets and some of those "fresh fish signs" tend to be understatements but I don't think I'd be on here bragging about destroying someones property because the mans always listening and reading and I'd hate for someone to be in trouble for this type of incident because it would do nothing but harm then good.
Post by: longknife on September 12, 2011, 09:43:51 AM
Or trim up, and stay above the net, and power up?
Either way, i was going over it.
Post by: FC on September 12, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
I agree that it's there fault for not properly marking their nets
Why would anyone get in trouble for running over an unmarked net? I would think he would be able to sue for damages to his boat if anything...
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: FC on September 12, 2011, 04:34:16 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
I guess I never read any bragging in this thread, it actually sounded like the one who started it was pretty pissed that someone set an unmarked net and endangered him and his boat, I would be pissed too! I don't know how you get bragging out of being unable to avoid...Whomever set that net is damn lucky they didn't screw up the OP's lower unit or motor!
Post by: runamuk on September 12, 2011, 04:42:25 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
I guess I never read any bragging in this thread, it actually sounded like the one who started it was pretty pissed that someone set an unmarked net and endangered him and his boat, I would be pissed too! I don't know how you get bragging out of being unable to avoid...Whomever set that net is damn lucky they didn't screw up the OP's lower unit or motor!
I guess I read it the same way sort of a shout out to the a-holio who didnt mark his net and risked damage and potential for injury to another party....it aint braggin in my book...
is it just me or was society a little more polite back when we still "took it outside" when someone was a total dumb ass? :dunno: all this PC watch what you say someone might get offended or sue you stuff has sure made people rude and self centered....
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 05:00:42 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
I guess I never read any bragging in this thread, it actually sounded like the one who started it was pretty pissed that someone set an unmarked net and endangered him and his boat, I would be pissed too! I don't know how you get bragging out of being unable to avoid...Whomever set that net is damn lucky they didn't screw up the OP's lower unit or motor!
I guess I read it the same way sort of a shout out to the a-holio who didnt mark his net and risked damage and potential for injury to another party....it aint braggin in my book...
is it just me or was society a little more polite back when we still "took it outside" when someone was a total dumb ass? :dunno: all this PC watch what you say someone might get offended or sue you stuff has sure made people rude and self centered....
Pump the brakes you two...all I said was be careful. "IF", notice the quotation marks and capital letters, "IF" that person had went crying to somebody and tried putting the blame on him because "THEY" were the dumba$$e$ that didn't mark their lines and almost caused serious damage to his boat and/or himself then the smartest thing would've been not post it and or at least not here.
If it was me I would've done the same thing with the exception of going back and giving them a piece of my mind and also reporting their dumba$$e$. I too, miss the old days when men could step outside and kick the S#%t out of each other and call it a day but, society has gotten soft these days and they will try anything they can except take responsibility for their actions.
Again, calm down you two, I never stated I was defending the Indian, it is "his fault" I already acknowledged that.
Post by: FC on September 12, 2011, 05:01:08 PM
is it just me or was society a little more polite back when we still "took it outside" when someone was a total dumb ass? :dunno: all this PC watch what you say someone might get offended or sue you stuff has sure made people rude and self centered....
No it's not just you, I wholeheartedly agree!
Why not post it? The only one who has referred to it as bragging so far is you! The thread started as a rant over some buttplug being so irresponsible as to risk damage to any/all boats that passed by and 8-2 gets a TON of traffic!
Post by: runamuk on September 12, 2011, 05:05:33 PM
and Brakes...pshhhh I dont need no brakes :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 05:18:20 PM
is it just me or was society a little more polite back when we still "took it outside" when someone was a total dumb ass? :dunno: all this PC watch what you say someone might get offended or sue you stuff has sure made people rude and self centered....
No it's not just you, I wholeheartedly agree!
Why not post it? The only one who has referred to it as bragging so far is you! The thread started as a rant over some buttplug being so irresponsible as to risk damage to any/all boats that passed by and 8-2 gets a TON of traffic!
All I said is it wasn't smart to post it and again I wasn't the only one that pointed that out nor was I the first one to point that fact out. Might want to go back and read and see who actually pointed that fact out before you go jumping to conclusions stating I'm the only one to mention it.
Post by: FC on September 12, 2011, 05:25:03 PM
I hope i cut your net rite in the middle!! No red marker bouys, at 50 mph, trim up, im glad i went over it, and cut your lines!! AND yes that was my middle finger as i did it!!
The only thing that pisses me off about this is, it wasn't me. good job. :tup: :tup: run is spot on the gorge is full of people tellin you how to live, but take one look at some of places where the fresh fish signs are, I wouldn't let my dog eat there, pretty damn dirty
:yeah: :yeah:
x2
I agree that it's there fault for not properly marking their nets and some of those "fresh fish signs" tend to be understatements but I don't think I'd be on here bragging about destroying someones property because the mans always listening and reading and I'd hate for someone to be in trouble for this type of incident because it would do nothing but harm then good.
Here ya go! I re-read it n' everythin'
You stand corrected. No conclusions were jumped to in the writing of this or previous messages by me in this thread.
Have a nice day! :spank_butt:
Post by: longknife on September 12, 2011, 05:27:49 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
NO, i wont keep it quiet, and learn we wont stand for it anymore.
Plateau,, you seem like a respectful native(by your posts in previous), but your people are far and few from it out here. Tired of seeing waist, filth, and greed from indians who dont give a *censored*.
I did nothing wrong, and will take it to court, and will win if they want to proceed.
You tell me how you see bragging, then why was that brought up?
Post by: birdmanwa on September 12, 2011, 06:51:29 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
NO, i wont keep it quiet, and learn we wont stand for it anymore.
Plateau,, you seem like a respectful native(by your posts in previous), but your people are far and few from it out here. Tired of seeing waist, filth, and greed from indians who dont give a *censored*.
I did nothing wrong, and will take it to court, and will win if they want to proceed.
You tell me how you see bragging, then why was that brought up?
Well said my sir. The Indians are the worst at the filth and greed when it comes to salmon. They are the ones rubbing and bragging in our face when they come right next to boats fishing and drop their nets. We shouldn't be quiet about what they are doing to our resource, its complete waste and they don't care. The whole native pride crap is a joke, what's there to be proud of?
Post by: Bigtine96 on September 12, 2011, 07:28:33 PM
Hhmm...good points but it all comes back to is CYA, cover your a$$. Lets say they did cry foul and then the blame game started do you really want to waste your time in court because you bragged about it on here or some other site that can be linked to you? Again, their loss and fault but keep a story like this off the net to save yourself a headache that is not worth it.
NO, i wont keep it quiet, and learn we wont stand for it anymore.
Plateau,, you seem like a respectful native(by your posts in previous), but your people are far and few from it out here. Tired of seeing waist, filth, and greed from indians who dont give a *censored*.
I did nothing wrong, and will take it to court, and will win if they want to proceed.
You tell me how you see bragging, then why was that brought up?
Well said my sir. The Indians are the worst at the filth and greed when it comes to salmon. They are the ones rubbing and bragging in our face when they come right next to boats fishing and drop their nets. We shouldn't be quiet about what they are doing to our resource, its complete waste and they don't care. The whole native pride crap is a joke, what's there to be proud of?
Couldn't have said it better myself birdman and longknife :twocents:
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 07:40:28 PM
Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
Looks like somebody before me thought it wasn't smart but hey what do I know right...
Yes its true there are bad apples but then again there are bad apples in every ethnic group and I can say more about others but I'm not going to at this time. If you dislike indians then just say it and don't beat around the bush. I'd rather deal with some body being honest and real then fake. Ill tell you what I'm proud about, the teachings from my great grandmother, grandmother grandfathers , uncles, aunts and father when it comes to our customs and traditions. Sure a lot of respect and honor has been lost with this younger generation but a few bad apples is not going to bring down the teachings I'm passing down to my children and they will pass down to theirs. So when you judge us as a whole saying we are all wastefull, a joke or prideless or whatever you want to generalize us as then maybe you really don't want to see a future of cooperation and partnership. It may take time but there are those of us that want to see change and are not afraid to say it at home and where it matters.
Again I already stated I wasn't defending or supporting the -ndian that was causing the damage it was his fault all I said was CYA and I'm not the only one who said it.
Post by: birdmanwa on September 12, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
Looks like somebody before me thought it wasn't smart but hey what do I know right...
Yes its true there are bad apples but then again there are bad apples in every ethnic group and I can say more about others but I'm not going to at this time. If you dislike indians then just say it and don't beat around the bush. I'd rather deal with some body being honest and real then fake. Ill tell you what I'm proud about, the teachings from my great grandmother, grandmother grandfathers , uncles, aunts and father when it comes to our customs and traditions. Sure a lot of respect and honor has been lost with this younger generation but a few bad apples is not going to bring down the teachings I'm passing down to my children and they will pass down to theirs. So when you judge us as a whole saying we are all wastefull, a joke or prideless or whatever you want to generalize us as then maybe you really don't want to see a future of cooperation and partnership. It may take time but there are those of us that want to see change and are not afraid to say it at home and where it matters.
Again I already stated I wasn't defending or supporting the -ndian that was causing the damage it was his fault all I said was CYA and I'm not the only one who said it.
I don't dislike Indians, I just dislike the way they treat the natural resource in WA. You speak of traditions and such, but really what is the tradition of laying a net across a river and netting the salmon and just taking the roe and leaving the rest for rot. That is not what your ancestors did. No doubt there are bad apples in every race, but the Natives are the ones really rubbing it in our face. There is none or never will be any cooperation with the state, it's not like it would make it better. As a sovereign nation, you as a whole tribe need to clean up the mess, we can't do anything. If there is I would gladly speak my two cents. I understand there is a treaty, but at least put some use to the fish instead of wasting it. I don't care when the Natives catch fish for the tribe.
Post by: singleshot12 on September 12, 2011, 08:25:51 PM
Post by: birdmanwa on September 12, 2011, 08:31:24 PM
:yeah: They're all bad apples in area 8-2. The tribal netting is out of control this year and yes they do seem to get their jollies from their waste and carnage. They are making all indians look bad.
I will agree with that. :yeah:
Post by: longknife on September 12, 2011, 08:33:33 PM
The hunterman coment, i dont think he realized it was accidental, til it was brought to his attention. I think he thought it was intentional.Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
Looks like somebody before me thought it wasn't smart but hey what do I know right...
Yes its true there are bad apples but then again there are bad apples in every ethnic group and I can say more about others but I'm not going to at this time. If you dislike indians then just say it and don't beat around the bush. I'd rather deal with some body being honest and real then fake. Ill tell you what I'm proud about, the teachings from my great grandmother, grandmother grandfathers , uncles, aunts and father when it comes to our customs and traditions. Sure a lot of respect and honor has been lost with this younger generation but a few bad apples is not going to bring down the teachings I'm passing down to my children and they will pass down to theirs. So when you judge us as a whole saying we are all wastefull, a joke or prideless or whatever you want to generalize us as then maybe you really don't want to see a future of cooperation and partnership. It may take time but there are those of us that want to see change and are not afraid to say it at home and where it matters.
Again I already stated I wasn't defending or supporting the -ndian that was causing the damage it was his fault all I said was CYA and I'm not the only one who said it.
If you look in my previous posts, i stated there are respectful natives out there, and deserve respect. Now if you are asking if i dont like indians, well, the local ones no, i dont care for the new generation of waistful, greed, and filth..
Like i said, i had no choice at the time. Am i sorry, HELL NO! Net should have been marked, and was a danger!.
I respect the old school natives! I think they deserve it, no waste, gave back to mother earth and all. But cooperation is needed on both ends, and with the hate from both sides, it is a long way to go, *censored* like this dosent help, but i will not be silenced for anyone!
Especially a native telling me to keep it quiet. Now, i understand your post points of view. I understand to watch whats said, and cover my ass, but i didnt brag, if others say something, so be it.Like on another site, someone posted not to go public on pictures, and reports of mountains of fish, because they cant prove who did it. BS, Im not sweeping it under the rug because it might be a white man. Im sick of it! We all have to pay part to make it better, not one or two apples.
Post by: logger on September 12, 2011, 08:50:55 PM
Post by: FC on September 12, 2011, 09:18:24 PM
For the record I don't care who's net it was. longknife was totally in the right.
Same here.
Post by: lokidog on September 12, 2011, 09:45:56 PM
Now there's a real smart way to ruin your motor, and go to jail when you get caught..Real smart :bdid:
Hunterman(Tony)
Looks like somebody before me thought it wasn't smart but hey what do I know right...
Yes its true there are bad apples but then again there are bad apples in every ethnic group and I can say more about others but I'm not going to at this time. If you dislike indians then just say it and don't beat around the bush. I'd rather deal with some body being honest and real then fake. Ill tell you what I'm proud about, the teachings from my great grandmother, grandmother grandfathers , uncles, aunts and father when it comes to our customs and traditions. Sure a lot of respect and honor has been lost with this younger generation but a few bad apples is not going to bring down the teachings I'm passing down to my children and they will pass down to theirs. So when you judge us as a whole saying we are all wastefull, a joke or prideless or whatever you want to generalize us as then maybe you really don't want to see a future of cooperation and partnership. It may take time but there are those of us that want to see change and are not afraid to say it at home and where it matters.
Again I already stated I wasn't defending or supporting the -ndian that was causing the damage it was his fault all I said was CYA and I'm not the only one who said it.
I don't dislike Indians, I just dislike the way they treat the natural resource in WA. You speak of traditions and such, but really what is the tradition of laying a net across a river and netting the salmon and just taking the roe and leaving the rest for rot. That is not what your ancestors did. No doubt there are bad apples in every race, but the Natives are the ones really rubbing it in our face. There is none or never will be any cooperation with the state, it's not like it would make it better. As a sovereign nation, you as a whole tribe need to clean up the mess, we can't do anything. If there is I would gladly speak my two cents. I understand there is a treaty, but at least put some use to the fish instead of wasting it. I don't care when the Natives catch fish for the tribe.
Personally I see it from this perspective as well. It seems to me that the treaties were written so that the natives would be able to continue their lifestyle with subsistence hunting and fishing, not profiteering (taking roe and tossing meat).
An example I saw a couple weeks ago of them "sticking it in our face" was out off San Juan. There were probably forty sport fishers out there all morning and then about ten minutes after the tide change, at least eight gill netters dropped their nets perpendicular to EVERYone's troll pattern over about a mile and a half stretch of water in a staggered pattern so that everyone else had to zig and zag and go out of their way to miss the nets. At least they were all marked.
Unfortunately, as it is with hunters and fishers in general, it is the bad apples that are the most visible.
Post by: NWBREW on September 13, 2011, 03:08:54 AM
As for the wasting by tribal...I remember those pics and others like them. Yes, there are bad apples in tribal and non tribal but I believe the core of the problem and ill feelings is How and why can anyone get away with it and it be ok? Tribal or not.
For non tribal it's the WDFW. People must adhere to their rules or pay the price.....and they are pretty strict about that.
The Tribal leaders MUST hold people accountable for actions taken within their tribe, whether its wastage or whatever. This is not happening. A change has to be made from within.....at the top and I don't mean people but the thinking of where this land is at....at this time. It would go a long way down the respect line if the leaders stepped up and said that maybe there should be stricter boundries, accountability. I believe there would more of a willingness to work together...like there should be. It is not my land and it is not your land, It is ours. Now before anyone gets their panties in a wad (sorry run) I am Blackfoot and German......you figure it out. :chuckle:
...just because it may be legal, doesn't make it right. This is the greatest country in the world and it should be treated with respect......by everybody. just my :twocents:
Post by: singleshot12 on September 13, 2011, 05:30:04 AM
You would think or would atleast hope other tribes would step forward and be able to do something about it. If tribal officials truly believe in Indian Pride and respect for Mother Earth then this sort of carnage would not be tolerated and something could and would be done.
Legal or not what they are doing is just plain wrong and goes against everything they claim to be. But greed for the all mighty dollar does strange things to people :rolleyes:
Post by: Special T on September 13, 2011, 09:57:12 AM
Post by: runamuk on September 13, 2011, 10:14:38 AM
I think the more that you make an issue us vs them (not just indian) you gain less ground...
I suppose one could say that or one could remember back to us vs them that founded this country if we had taken that attitude we would be under the crown right now.
Or us vs them when the towers came down we could of sat back and done nothing which is what some want and think is the answer.
The civil war I am pretty damn sure that was a major case of us vs them maybe we should of skipped that one :dunno:
The treaty issues are no different than any other us vs them in history all thats left to find out is the outcome :dunno:
:twocents:
Post by: sharpeshooter on September 13, 2011, 12:00:42 PM
Post by: White Tornado on September 13, 2011, 12:48:09 PM
I say if Indians want to harvest the way they did back then, take away there guns and give them bows and take away there powerboats and go back to canoes. I don't recall see 200 horse yamahas strapped to canoes back then. All Indians do is whine and say they own everything. You got your casinos.
The treaties were written and agreed to in a way that seemed right "at that time". Times have changed since then. The way the native peoples harvest fish and game have changed. What they do with the fish and game they harvest has changed as well. The abundance of fish and game have changed dramatically!! It only seems right that the treaties should be changed to reflect the current state of all these changes. The Constitution of the United States has been modified over the years by adding amendments when it seemed necessary. If the Constitution can be modified as time and situation changes, why can't the treaties with the native peoples be modified to better reflect the changing times that we all have to adjust to. :dunno: The spirit of these treaties has been broken by the native peoples who no longer fish for sustenance but rather have turned into a commercial fishing group that is unaccountable, disrespectful and wasteful!!!
Post by: Gobble Gobble on September 13, 2011, 12:56:01 PM
Post by: seansfire on September 14, 2011, 03:27:43 PM
The treaties are a joke and were probably valid 100 years ago but like with the blacks , how long are we supposed to keep paying some a -holes for something our great great grandfathers did? I am a firm beliver the tribes should be out on thier ass and working for a living like everyone else. You can't sell me the idea that the tribes are poor when they own every casino and fireworks stand in the state. Sorry if i come off as an ass or something but i get real tired of people getting something for doing nothing. None of the people getting the benefits suffered one bit. Honor your relatives by being men , not mooching off of the legacy they left behind.
Post by: boonerboy on September 14, 2011, 03:31:31 PM
Honor your relatives by being men , not mooching off of the legacy they left behind.
:yeah:
Post by: birdmanwa on September 14, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
If nobody else will come out and say it then i will, i don't like any of the indians i have ever met when out fishing. They have ALL been rude , wastefull , dirty , people. Didnt matter if we were in a river or out in the sound. They ALWAYS go to a place and rape the water and the beach for everything that is there then leave the garbage and fish carcases laying all over the beach. In case you are all wondering i am referring to the purdy sand spit out by gig harbor. A few years ago they even left a boat full of fish on the beach and went to the bar and got drunk. All the fish were ruined and fish and game did nothing.
The treaties are a joke and were probably valid 100 years ago but like with the blacks , how long are we supposed to keep paying some a -holes for something our great great grandfathers did? I am a firm beliver the tribes should be out on thier ass and working for a living like everyone else. You can't sell me the idea that the tribes are poor when they own every casino and fireworks stand in the state. Sorry if i come off as an ass or something but i get real tired of people getting something for doing nothing. None of the people getting the benefits suffered one bit. Honor your relatives by being men , not mooching off of the legacy they left behind.
Bingo :yeah: Well said. Something needs to change
Post by: Coastal_native on September 14, 2011, 07:05:58 PM
If nobody else will come out and say it then i will, i don't like any of the indians i have ever met when out fishing. They have ALL been rude , wastefull , dirty , people. Didnt matter if we were in a river or out in the sound. They ALWAYS go to a place and rape the water and the beach for everything that is there then leave the garbage and fish carcases laying all over the beach. In case you are all wondering i am referring to the purdy sand spit out by gig harbor. A few years ago they even left a boat full of fish on the beach and went to the bar and got drunk. All the fish were ruined and fish and game did nothing.
The treaties are a joke and were probably valid 100 years ago but like with the blacks , how long are we supposed to keep paying some a -holes for something our great great grandfathers did? I am a firm beliver the tribes should be out on thier ass and working for a living like everyone else. You can't sell me the idea that the tribes are poor when they own every casino and fireworks stand in the state. Sorry if i come off as an ass or something but i get real tired of people getting something for doing nothing. None of the people getting the benefits suffered one bit. Honor your relatives by being men , not mooching off of the legacy they left behind.
Really??? This post actually got a :yeah:
Oh well...Thank you for your contributions to my pro-treaty argument. I can't imagine how much courage it must have taken to openly express such innovative thinking. We need more people like you stepping up and making these comments in public places. We need people to realize that it's only "dirty Indians" and "blacks" that are "drunk a-holes" that mooch off the government.
Please, whatever you guys do, spare me the routine justification about this "being a frustrating topic" or "why are we accused of being racist everytime we talk out against treaties?" or my new personal favorite "why do we have to be so PC all the time?". I personally don't care either way, these kinda posts make me look damn good.
I had no idea you were paying a-holes like me (and blacks) for something your great, great grandfathers did. I have no further comments on this thread, but I will sit back and watch (in enjoyment) as Hunt WA members try to justify or condone this type of post.
Post by: shedcrazy on September 14, 2011, 07:12:29 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 14, 2011, 07:26:57 PM
Is it ok to say something the manner in which he did about say illegal aliens? Is it not possible that he truly has only met the dregs of a group? If I say Rainier Valley or south Seattle how many here cringe? I know some fine people who live there, upstanding hard working and even white, kids attend catholic school.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 14, 2011, 07:43:18 PM
If I say Rainier Valley or south Seattle how many here cringe?Cringe? When I hear those words I check my magazines full, chamber loaded, and doors locked.
Post by: seansfire on September 14, 2011, 07:45:31 PM
i rarely see a native that makes his sole living from netting fish on a weekend. in fact one of the so called natives is a guy who works at the port and takes way more than his fair share of the salmon every chance he gets. this is not a race issue , this is a issue of being fair and doing what is right and ethical.
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2011, 08:03:16 PM
Are all Indians Drunk Slobs? Obviously not. I would however say that i think there is 2 distinct groups of Indians that are not mutually exclusive... I was talking to an Indian friend of mine and we were discussing some of the topics from this board. He told me a story about how he was taking a trip with is girl friend to pick up some native Indian art while up in BC. The directions his girl friend were vague to incomplete. When his girlfriend asked if they were close he said why yes we are the the reservation. Her reply was "How do you know? I didn't see a sign. Did i Miss It? He laughed and said no. So from my limited understanding i would say there are 2 groups people who live on the Reservation, and those who don't... Does that mean that there aren't "Good" people on the Rez? No. Does that mean that there are not slobs that live off the rez? No This same friend also talked about how his brother took such immaculate care of his lawn that you thought his yard was part of a golf course. He put so much effort into it to fight back the perception of "Living on a Indian Reservation".
I would urge people to judge individuals as such. Different and unique in their own way. IF Tribes care about their image they will police themselves. If not i will judge them one by one...
Post by: seansfire on September 14, 2011, 08:17:51 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 14, 2011, 08:24:22 PM
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2011, 09:14:16 PM
I am not Indian but have a couple of friends that are, and my wife has some family friends that i have had the opportunity to have some interesting discussions with. People are individuals and Generalizations are just that.
I think that if a person lives a life of complete ignorance (regardless of race) they are ultimately the ones to suffer for it.
Post by: FC on September 15, 2011, 12:32:14 AM
If nobody else will come out and say it then i will, i don't like any of the indians i have ever met when out fishing. They have ALL been rude , wastefull , dirty , people. Didnt matter if we were in a river or out in the sound. They ALWAYS go to a place and rape the water and the beach for everything that is there then leave the garbage and fish carcases laying all over the beach. In case you are all wondering i am referring to the purdy sand spit out by gig harbor. A few years ago they even left a boat full of fish on the beach and went to the bar and got drunk. All the fish were ruined and fish and game did nothing.
@ Coastal Native and PlateauNDN, This bit I've quoted out may not be what you want to hear but truthfully I wonder sometimes if you guys have ever actually seen a reservation or an area where indians fish. What do you guys see when you either walk onto your rez or past an area where your people have fished? Do you guys see the junk cars all over or the houses that are built so far below code that they should have been condemned prior to completion? Do you not see the piles of carcasses all over the place with the hens bellies ripped open for their roe and then thrown into a pile? I've watched as the fish were pulled from the nets and the females had their bellies sliced open to rip out the eggs and then drop their still thrashing carcass over the side. Do you see the piles of dead bucks on the other side of the net that were cast aside as being worthless and so as not to be counted toward the indian"s quota? I've personally seen beaches and tidelands raped of shellfish and crab in Hood Canal, I watched indians held at rifle-point at the neighbors until cops could get there and tell them that they really couldn't rape the beach owners cultured oyster bed. I could go on at quite some length on the disrespect and waste of fish and animals that I have seen as could many others on this site.
These are all things that the rest of us see every year that we fish and every time we drive through or past a rez. Is it really so surprising that so many of you get lumped in with the majority? When you gloss right over all of this and then start talking about mutual understanding blah blah and how your people deserve everything they've got and more it becomes incredibly insulting. The obvious sense of overbearing entitlement is reprehensible. Insisting that these behaviors I am describing are inaccurate or rare is ridiculous, we all know that no prosecution takes place from the tribe either as we get to watch them all do the same crap every time! The only "native pride" that I've ever seen is your people's ability to rape every resource they can get a crack at and get away with it, I find it particularly special when I get to see them taking a break from raping a salmon run so they can have a bite to eat and smoke weed on the beach in full view of everyone.What's to be proud of in all of this? Not pissing in your pants when you pass out afterwards?
If you want the sterotypes to stop I'm afraid it's on you to clean up your people's image!
I am not saying that you Coastal Native or you PlateauNDN are anything like this but this IS the public image of your peoples. Acting offended when someone points it out is just silly, if I were in either of your shoes I would be all over my people to shape the hell up!
Post by: Coastal_native on September 15, 2011, 02:22:56 AM
To be clear, "my people" are the Quinaults. I see the reservation and the places where we fish almost everyday. Most of the commercial fishery issues you're talking about are not applicable to us, as we do not target roe. Everything else you described...I can get a good look at by driving through places all over Grays Harbor Co. (or the US for that matter).
Based on the words you're putting into my mouth and/or your interpretation of what I think is acceptable or what offends me, I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts. Which is fine, as I give no merit to anything you've posted on this topic either. Unfortunately resource exploitation is a real thing. Historically it was not something that existed in Indian country, and it certainly isn't something that is Indian specific today. What is "silly" to me is how exaggerated and one-sided your posts always are.
Post by: singleshot12 on September 15, 2011, 04:41:50 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on September 15, 2011, 04:59:45 AM
Take half of your tribe and give them continued access and special treatment like the entire tribe has today. Take the other half and make them responsible for providing for their family with no special treatment, no special rights, fully fledged tax paying workers. Tax these new workers and fund all of the special treatment provided the first half... Sound like a fun plan?
Post by: remington300mag on September 15, 2011, 06:51:53 AM
FC, you deserve a respone,
To be clear, "my people" are the Quinaults. I see the reservation and the places where we fish almost everyday. Most of the commercial fishery issues you're talking about are not applicable to us, as we do not target roe. Everything else you described...I can get a good look at by driving through places all over Grays Harbor Co. (or the US for that matter).
Based on the words you're putting into my mouth and/or your interpretation of what I think is acceptable or what offends me, I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts. Which is fine, as I give no merit to anyting you've posted on this topic either. Unfortunately resource exploitation is a real thing. Historically it was not something that existed in Indian country, and it certainly isn't something that is Indian specific today. What is "silly" to me is how exaggerated and one-sided your posts always are.
Tap Danced right around the questions didn't ya???? Guess it doesn't bother you at all....which would mean that the stereo types shouldn't bother you at all! Right??
Myself, I come from a place named "Stinkin' Creek" Tennessee.....there are some white trash, back woods, redneck, law breaking, pieces of crap that live out there...Not all, but some...All I can do is try and live better than they do.....The stereo types do not bother me at all!! Why, cause I am not going to do anything to change those people that live where my family comes from! As well the stereo types should not bother you......because it is clear there are problem people that cause the stereo types and you are going to do nothing to stop it!
Just remember Coastal just because people are trashing on some people of a race....doesn't mean they are trashing on you or your family! If you truly do hold yourself to a higher standard....then hold your head up high.....and when people start trashing on "Dirty Indians".....You and your family can still be proud to call yourself "Native Americans"....
Do I make any sense at all??? Or is my "Dumb, Hillbilly, Inbred, Redneck" side coming out???
Post by: runamuk on September 15, 2011, 07:18:45 AM
"ghetto"
whats this mean? its a stereotype isnt it yet its become fashionable in some circles to emulate this behavior
"white trash"
thats what I aspired not to be because my own grandmother..well great granny from arkansas who was a bigot said white trash was the lowest life of human existence...was cool to know how I rated since we lived within that realm that is called white trash....
"the rez"
also creates an image and not a good one doesnt mean there arent good people, just like the ghetto or white trash not all who come from these places fit the stereotype but the stereotype tends to fit the place....
"government housing"
theres another that brings up all kinds of images
Post by: FC on September 15, 2011, 07:22:55 AM
Everything else you described...I can get a good look at by driving through places all over Grays Harbor Co. (or the US for that matter).
False...and you know it! The rest of us are actually required to adhere to building codes, your rez might not average 15 dead cars per shack but it would be the only one I ever saw that didn't.
Based on the words you're putting into my mouth and/or your interpretation of what I think is acceptable or what offends me, I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts.
This must be the part where you are going to tell me that you and your tribe don't deserve any of the special privileges that you and your race are currently accorded. No? Thought not.
I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts.
On the contrary, I've paid a good deal of attention to your posts and while typically well written and carefully worded they still exude an entitled attitude.
Unfortunately resource exploitation is a real thing.
Why is it condoned now? Are you actively seeking to curb the tribal rape of resources? Are your people going to start putting some of their own money into conservation as opposed to suing others and collecting grants and trying to say that you actually paid for something? If it makes you feel any better, I am against ALL commercial fishing, I don't find indians to be special in this regard but they do tend to be the most rapacious.
What is "silly" to me is how exaggerated and one-sided your posts always are.
Really? I actually played down the last one but I will start taking pics of carcass piles, indians shooting sea lions on the Hood Canal etc. Indians ripping up schools of fish with strings of huge barbed trebles and claiming protection via their heritage. Ironically the sea lion executions didn't bother me but the complete disregard for the safety of others due to ricochet was astonishing. If I had to guess at what the opinions of many of your ancestors would be on the current generation and their insatiable greed I am gonna guess they wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire!
The stereotypes can be fixed if the tribes seek to do so, telling us that they are baseless lowers your credibility into obscurity.
Post by: nontypical176 on September 15, 2011, 10:32:56 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 15, 2011, 12:47:49 PM
I see the dredges of my Tribe everyday because a lot of them are clients of my employer and I deal with not just them but every ethnic group that lives on this Rez. Whites, blacks, hispanics, asian etc... but they are all clients that I deal with whether they are homeless, poor, old, disabled etc...
There are those that do not wish to do anything to curb the abuse of our "rights" and there are those of us that do want to do something and I'm one of them. It doesn't matter how many times you and I have it out and sometimes they are rather enjoyable but in the end you're not the one I have to convince to get on our Tribal Council.
The people here are the ones I have to convince that there is a problem with the way our current Government handles situations like these and many others. We've gone back and forth and the one thing I have learned from all of this is I have found a new source of ideas. Some of the ideas may not hold merit but some do and they are worth exporing and possible implementation.
You've said I before that I've spoken like a true politician and again that's correct. If change is to happen then somebody has to be willing to step into the fire and step into the spotlight of being the one to make the decisions and take responsibility for making changes whether everybody agrees with them or not.
I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.
Post by: FC on September 15, 2011, 02:29:29 PM
I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.
I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.
Post by: Heartsblood on September 15, 2011, 05:22:56 PM
I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.
I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.
I too would be interested to know if there's anything afoot towards addressing the commercial fishing aspect which as we know almost always comes with the heartbreaking waste and often complete depletion of the fish stocks involved.
I think if calmer heads prevailed a bit more, we would see that Indians did not invent commercial fishing, nor are they the only practitioners of such an endeavor. Nor have they done most of the damage in the world to fish stocks comparitively to other groups who also commercially fish. If we were to come at it from this perspective, perhaps we then might see that it's not a specific group that is the problem, rather a specific practice.
It's much easier to blame a group because then we have a name and face to be pissed off at. It's much harder to blame a system which has no human face, is much more elusive to pin accountability on, and would require actual effort/activism to try and dismantle or change.
My buck fiddy.
Post by: FC on September 15, 2011, 06:02:59 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 15, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.
Suburbia destroyed our fish runs.
Post by: Special T on September 15, 2011, 07:12:07 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 15, 2011, 07:18:27 PM
Hearts blood,It think your statement is a pretty fair assessment. With the complaints about waste because of roe only harvest, there should be a business opportunity. I know i feed my dog food that has salmon in it... Not all salmon can command prices good enough for the fresh market... I remember reading somewhere that dead carcasses and or fillet salmon head/bones were hearing reintroduced to some rivers above dams and falls to promote the cadis fly hatch... Not all problems are waste... and like heartblood said if cooler heads engaged it could be better for all.
why isn't it utilized in the fish fertilizer market is my question...fish fertilizer is good stuff and typically falls into the OMRI or organic labeling and would sure be a better use than just chucking them...I understand some body count is needed in rivers for the smolts to eat and to feed the circle of life but that doesn't account for the fish piled on banks....
Post by: Instinct on September 15, 2011, 07:36:29 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 15, 2011, 07:55:24 PM
and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.
Suburbia destroyed our fish runs.
I used to believe this was the major factor--I assume you mean land development. But look at the rivers that are still undeveloped. Sprawl/habitat loss might be huge contributors in certain Puget Sound rivers. You can go down the Queets or Hoh or a few others and see very little human interference. Even the runs in Alaska are at lower levels.
The hatcheries are pumping out so many fish right now (US, Canada, Russia, Japan) that estimates are that there are more salmon in the ocean than have ever been. The commercial fleet is well equipped--side scan sonar, spotter planes, high speed boats, data from scientific buoys, etc. A guy I know that runs a seafood company in Seattle said they could catch nearly every fish out there if they really wanted to.
There is huge demand for salmon right now because of the health food/omega-3/sushi trends.
I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.
I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.
If at all interested in what I think would solve it......Laws, ENFORCED laws. If non-Indians could get away with the same practices as the Indians then (I think) we'd see 1,000 X the nets. Until they have laws against it and get more than slapped wrists it will remain widespread. Laws won't eliminate it outright, just cut it waaaaay down.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 15, 2011, 08:08:59 PM
why isn't it utilized in the fish fertilizer market is my question...fish fertilizer is good stuff and typically falls into the OMRI or organic labeling and would sure be a better use than just chucking them...I understand some body count is needed in rivers for the smolts to eat and to feed the circle of life but that doesn't account for the fish piled on banks....I guessing it is because a buyer hasn't approached them yet. As soon as bycatch/remains have dollar signs attached to them, they'd be selling.
The biggest piles I've seen were from DFW, for 'river nourishment'. DFW had too many silvers return to the hatchery so they were cutting the tails off and then putting them in a trailer. Thousands of them. Then they would take them up the mountain and dump them off the bridge. The bios kept talking about doing this to raise the nitrogen.
Post by: runamuk on September 15, 2011, 08:18:24 PM
Well they are missing an opportunity...can you imagine the promotional value....they would be able to hit the organic market, jump on the whole white self hate and tout the Native American produced, plus hit the made in america and washington grown labels.....it could be as major an enterprise as the recycling of seattles sewage into the growco sterile soil....I see all sorts of money with a little bit of effort and it would be a use of offal or waste so would just give the greens fits of pleasure...funny how the green movement was hijacked by the environmental whacknuts...but hell I say play to their guilt and make some money where you can....why isn't it utilized in the fish fertilizer market is my question...fish fertilizer is good stuff and typically falls into the OMRI or organic labeling and would sure be a better use than just chucking them...I understand some body count is needed in rivers for the smolts to eat and to feed the circle of life but that doesn't account for the fish piled on banks....I guessing it is because a buyer hasn't approached them yet. As soon as bycatch/remains have dollar signs attached to them, they'd be selling.
The biggest piles I've seen were from DFW, for 'river nourishment'. DFW had too many silvers return to the hatchery so they were cutting the tails off and then putting them in a trailer. Thousands of them. Then they would take them up the mountain and dump them off the bridge. The bios kept talking about doing this to raise the nitrogen.
but thats just me always thinking of crazy ideas
dumping too much carcass into the river systems will boost nitrogen but that can have very damaging effects as well....I think the east has some dead zones that show what happens when too much nitrogen enters an aquatic system..
Post by: birdmanwa on September 15, 2011, 08:48:59 PM
You certainly raise some good points heartsblood although indians have been by far the most wasteful pigs that I have ever seen involved with commercial fishing and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.
[/quote
I agree, and the is no sign of stopping. I think we as sportsman need to work together or we will see more of our tax dollars go to the natives to make up for no salmon in Washington. The biggest thing we face is that the natives have their hands in Gregoire pockets right now, which doesn't help us but helps them.
Post by: birdmanwa on September 15, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.
Suburbia destroyed our fish runs.
That's false. It did hurt, but our return runs of fish are getting stronger. Look at the pink salmon, it was one of the largest runs on recorded history, the Columbia is also have recorded runs. It's just when you lay nets across a river and the bay for 7 days a week, it makes it hard for salmon to spawn :bash:
Post by: seansfire on September 15, 2011, 11:24:21 PM
While we are at it you better drive across the Purdy Sand Spit out by Gig Harbor or up Highway 101 around Hoodsport and again count the nets. I sure as hell don't see ANY whites out there with a net in the water or a treble hook. Those of us who follow the LAW would be arrested for it is why. In my book the natives on here bitching about your heritage and that you suffer greatly are full of themselves and should really pull your head out.
Post by: Coastal_native on September 15, 2011, 11:37:26 PM
In my book the natives on here bitching about your heritage and that you suffer greatly are full of themselves and should really pull your head out.
Just out of curiosity, who are the natives on here that "are bitching about their heritage and that they suffer greatly"? I can count us on one hand and I don't recall any posts that fit your description.
Post by: 3nails on September 16, 2011, 03:45:41 AM
Yes, be careful not to slander. In my observations Coastal and Plateau have been nothing but curteous and patient. Though I agree that treaty interpretations need to be changed, these two gentlemen have been nothing but that, gentlemen.In my book the natives on here bitching about your heritage and that you suffer greatly are full of themselves and should really pull your head out.
Just out of curiosity, who are the natives on here that "are bitching about their heritage and that they suffer greatly"? I can count us on one hand and I don't recall any posts that fit your description.
Post by: White Tornado on September 16, 2011, 07:34:37 AM
[/quote] Yes, be careful not to slander. In my observations Coastal and Plateau have been nothing but curteous and patient. Though I agree that treaty interpretations need to be changed, these two gentlemen have been nothing but that, gentlemen.
[/quote]
:yeah:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 16, 2011, 07:57:03 AM
Post by: Heartsblood on September 16, 2011, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, be careful not to slander. In my observations Coastal and Plateau have been nothing but curteous and patient. Though I agree that treaty interpretations need to be changed, these two gentlemen have been nothing but that, gentlemen.In my book the natives on here bitching about your heritage and that you suffer greatly are full of themselves and should really pull your head out.
Just out of curiosity, who are the natives on here that "are bitching about their heritage and that they suffer greatly"? I can count us on one hand and I don't recall any posts that fit your description.
Agreed. This appears to be a straw man accusation. That's one of the cool things about forums like this - people can go back and look for what's been said and in this case perhaps, what hasn't been said.
I too have seen no "bitching" as has been described.
Post by: h20hunter on September 16, 2011, 08:46:45 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 16, 2011, 08:55:07 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on September 16, 2011, 09:16:57 AM
Post by: h20hunter on September 16, 2011, 09:26:18 AM
Like any topic that has a lot of emotional response I will always maintain that inflammatory actions and statements will not accomplish anything. Interactions and opinions will vary greatly depending on area and interactions. Statements that include inflammatory wording and derogatory (sp?) slurs on any side of the arguement will accomplish nothing. Actually, they usually work agains the person trying to make a point.
So, I guess my point for chiming in is regarless if you are a tattoed dentist, net carrying native american, or anglo sport fisherman making statments with insulting terms will get you nowhere.
Post by: sharpeshooter on September 16, 2011, 09:38:50 AM
Post by: seansfire on September 19, 2011, 11:39:57 AM