Post by: runniNgunnin on September 12, 2011, 03:10:45 PM
Post by: BIGINNER on September 12, 2011, 03:26:39 PM
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 12, 2011, 03:41:50 PM
i think you ment blewett pass(on US 97) bluet pass is by mt baker.
your right sir! my bad... :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 04:18:12 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on September 12, 2011, 04:29:24 PM
Glad the dog is doing fairly well. Pretty lucky dog!!!
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 12, 2011, 10:07:30 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on September 13, 2011, 05:50:39 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on September 13, 2011, 05:52:59 AM
Post by: Curly on September 13, 2011, 05:59:48 AM
i think you ment blewett pass(on US 97) bluet pass is by mt baker.
Now this is really funny. Sorry to threadjack, but I can't help myself. Bigginner correcting someone elses spelling just has me laughing........ :chuckle:
Post by: Lowedog on September 13, 2011, 06:01:25 AM
Quote
YAKIMA, Wash. — It seems that the Martinez family sheep-herding operation has already encountered the Teanaway wolfpack, and a sheep was killed. But here’s the interesting kicker: The wolves apparently weren’t the ones who killed the ewe.
A cougar did.
The wolves did, however, very nearly kill a border collie that was trying to keep them away from the sheep’s carcass.
According to Mark Martinez, who oversees the northernmost grazing allotments of the Moxee-based Martinez sheep operation, this incident happened on Tuesday, Aug. 23, on a piece of private land that Martinez sheep have been grazing off and on since the 1940s.
The sheep were grazing in an area west of State Highway 97 just off Forest Road 9738, near a rise known as Red Top. The night before had been windy, apparently enough so that when the ewe was killed, the herder overseeing that band of sheep didn’t hear it and didn’t see the attack. Neither, apparently, did the Pyrenees guard dogs that are trained to protect the sheep from predators.
On that Tuesday, though, one of the herder’s Pyrenees guard dogs was watching over the carcass when four wolves — probably attracted by the scent of the kill — showed up and forced the dog away from its post. The noise of the confrontation brought one or more of the border collies, which then tried to chase the wolves away. The ruckus also brought the herder.
“The herder saw four wolves. One had a collar,” Martinez said.
(A note: State wildlife officers had captured and radio-collared the pack’s dominant female a month earlier.)
“(The herder) was pretty shook up,” Martinez said. “Even after the warning shot (the wolves) didn’t just disappear into the woods. They were kind of hesitant.”
The wolves were finally chased away, but not before badly injuring one of the border collies — badly enough, Martinez said, that the veterinarian told him if one of the bite wounds had been even a 16th-inch to one direction, the dog would have suffered excessive hemorrhaging and died.
State wildlife agents came to the site the next day and determined the ewe had been killed by a cougar, and Martinez said the state also offered to pick up the tab for the vet bill. But while the grazing season is almost over, Martinez is concerned his family’s sheep operation is in for a lot more troubles down the line.
“I’m hoping we don’t lose any stock,” Martinez said. “But that’s never the case when you’re out in the woods and there’s all sorts of wildlife that, once they acquire a taste for lamb or sheep, they’ve found a food source.
“And they’re going to continue to utilize that food source.”
– Scott Sandsberry
Post by: boneaddict on September 13, 2011, 06:10:38 AM
Doing its job in the face of real danger. LOVE animals like that!
Idabooner witnessed SEVERAL TIMES how the wolves allow the cat to kill as they are probably more effecient at it, then they run the cat off. This was specifically so for the younger wolves with one adult, or where their hunting abilities were limited. THAT WAS NO ACCIDENT. He watched it happen several times. THen the cat would be forced to go kill again.
Post by: bearpaw on September 13, 2011, 07:47:31 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 13, 2011, 08:03:13 AM
i think you ment blewett pass(on US 97) bluet pass is by mt baker.
Now this is really funny. Sorry to threadjack, but I can't help myself. Bigginner correcting someone elses spelling just has me laughing........ :chuckle:
:yeah: :dunno: He's learning
Post by: mulehunter on September 13, 2011, 08:14:37 AM
Lucky Pups wolf doesnt know how to fight with Farm dog in Ellensburg. Soon they will kill dog.
G.D. doesnt know who kill it. He just guess and he sound like he is protecting those wolves pack just like story about Larry's loss two cows in Carlton. :bash:
Mulehunter
Post by: Shed Stud on September 13, 2011, 08:50:18 AM
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 14, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
http://www.king5.com/news/Wolves-Visit-Blewett-Pass-Sheep-Bite-Herd-Dog-129767188.html (http://www.king5.com/news/Wolves-Visit-Blewett-Pass-Sheep-Bite-Herd-Dog-129767188.html)
Post by: seth30 on September 14, 2011, 06:54:35 AM
Post by: twistiron on September 14, 2011, 07:14:14 AM
Post by: ribka on September 14, 2011, 07:16:25 AM
Good thing they were able to save the dog. I think this latest wolf attack is a taste of things to come....
But according to wolf luvers on here wolves only attack the sick animals. Maybe the dog was sick? :tung:
More of the sama attacks on pets and livestock if *censored*s in WA get their way and more wolves are introduced
Post by: ribka on September 14, 2011, 07:25:09 AM
HERE YOU GO BOYS!
http://www.king5.com/news/Wolves-Visit-Blewett-Pass-Sheep-Bite-Herd-Dog-129767188.html (http://www.king5.com/news/Wolves-Visit-Blewett-Pass-Sheep-Bite-Herd-Dog-129767188.html)
I look forward to some "kick butt hunting there" because of the wolves
CUZSIS:
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2011, 03:46:01 PM »
Quote
Hey guys, let's blame the wolves (or any animal) for poor management by Washington state.
Wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, they're all fine to have in an area. And good for it. We don't need people trapping beavers (and paying them to do so) because the cougars have a taste for beaver and do it for us. The wolves will take the weak and sick giving us some absolutely kickbutt trophy deer and elk in the long run. All around good stuff.
Post by: mkcj on September 14, 2011, 07:45:05 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2011, 08:02:07 AM
man thats sickening, you have a third generation farmer struggling to make a living and they have to figure out the compensation? if you ask me if he cant shoot the attacker then he should get at least double head price! i have seen tough hounds fight yotes and win but these canadian wolves are big fast strong animals i am not sure of a dog breed that can compete? even a big pit/ american bull dog/ shepared is really not a fair match and when its a pack your talking adding easily $20,000 in training, purchase, and care to the hearders overhead by adding a pack of large gaurd dogs.
Here's the kicker, by saying a cougar killed the sheep which then supposedly attracted the wolves, there is a good chance there will be no compensation. This ploy was used in the Rocky Mountain states. The wolfers say they support funding for ranching losses, but many ranchers are unable to collect due to technicalities and to investigators who do not want their precious fuzzy wolves to take the blame for killing livestock.
Do you actually believe a cougar killed the sheep? I honestly don't know, it depends who investigated the kill and if they were honest about it or not, but some of these people in WDFW are wolfers who do not want wolves to look bad, I give it a 50/50 chance that this whole statement stinks. 8)
There are ways to tell whether it was a cougar kill or a wolf kill, the two animals kill entirely different, I would liove to see the photos of the kill.
Post by: Huntboy on September 14, 2011, 08:09:44 AM
Here's the kicker, by saying a cougar killed the sheep which then supposedly attracted the wolves, there is a good chance there will be no compensation. This ploy was used in the Rocky Mountain states. The wolfers say they support funding for ranching losses, but many ranchers are unable to collect due to technicalities and to investigators who do not want their precious fuzzy wolves to take the blame for killing livestock.
Do you actually believe a cougar killed the sheep? I honestly don't know, it depends who investigated the kill and if they were honest about it or not, but some of these people in WDFW are wolfers who do not want wolves to look bad, I give it a 50/50 chance that this whole statement stinks. 8)
There are ways to tell whether it was a cougar kill or a wolf kill, the two animals kill entirely different, I would liove to see the photos of the kill.
:yeah:
Post by: seth30 on September 14, 2011, 09:09:34 AM
Post by: runamuk on September 14, 2011, 09:19:55 AM
man thats sickening, you have a third generation farmer struggling to make a living and they have to figure out the compensation? if you ask me if he cant shoot the attacker then he should get at least double head price! i have seen tough hounds fight yotes and win but these canadian wolves are big fast strong animals i am not sure of a dog breed that can compete? even a big pit/ american bull dog/ shepared is really not a fair match and when its a pack your talking adding easily $20,000 in training, purchase, and care to the hearders overhead by adding a pack of large gaurd dogs.
Here's the kicker, by saying a cougar killed the sheep which then supposedly attracted the wolves, there is a good chance there will be no compensation. This ploy was used in the Rocky Mountain states. The wolfers say they support funding for ranching losses, but many ranchers are unable to collect due to technicalities and to investigators who do not want their precious fuzzy wolves to take the blame for killing livestock.
Do you actually believe a cougar killed the sheep? I honestly don't know, it depends who investigated the kill and if they were honest about it or not, but some of these people in WDFW are wolfers who do not want wolves to look bad, I give it a 50/50 chance that this whole statement stinks. 8)
There are ways to tell whether it was a cougar kill or a wolf kill, the two animals kill entirely different, I would liove to see the photos of the kill.
felines typically strangle crushing windpipes and canines disembowel or hamstring two opposite ends of the animal...this is basic animal biology stuff anyone with a tv can learn watching any African animal show :chuckle: seriously I know plenty of first graders who could tell you that...its not rocket science :dunno:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 14, 2011, 09:29:13 AM
felines typically strangle crushing windpipes and canines disembowel or hamstring two opposite ends of the animal...this is basic animal biology stuff anyone with a tv can learn
Unless you watch this film, where they show examples of wolf killed livestock with windpipes removed
http://cryingwolfmovie.com/ (http://cryingwolfmovie.com/)
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 14, 2011, 04:26:34 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 14, 2011, 04:30:59 PM
hell I cant laugh at anyone for spelling because I seem to have the samre problem ..... :chuckle: :chuckle: :yike:i think you ment blewett pass(on US 97) bluet pass is by mt baker.
Now this is really funny. Sorry to threadjack, but I can't help myself. Bigginner correcting someone elses spelling just has me laughing........ :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2011, 04:38:27 PM
they could not really "investigate" the killed animal because the sheep herder did what sheep herders do when they find killed/dead sheep.... skinned it out to save the hide and let the dogs eat a free meal. sorry boys, dont worry though im sure my uncle will have many more sheep for them to investigate soon.
I hope they move on so he doesn't suffer additional losses. :tup:
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 14, 2011, 05:12:53 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2011, 05:19:07 PM
they could not really "investigate" the killed animal because the sheep herder did what sheep herders do when they find killed/dead sheep.... skinned it out to save the hide and let the dogs eat a free meal. sorry boys, dont worry though im sure my uncle will have many more sheep for them to investigate soon.
I hope they move on so he doesn't suffer additional losses. :tup:
What I meant is I hope the wolves move on, away from their sheep.
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 14, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
Post by: seth30 on September 15, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
Post by: Hoyt204 on September 15, 2011, 02:23:50 PM
Post by: runniNgunnin on September 16, 2011, 01:25:12 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on September 16, 2011, 02:04:19 PM
Not sure I'm serious, but I'd like to screw with those guys some and really make them defend their actions on how good of an idea this whole thing is.
Post by: runamuk on September 16, 2011, 08:35:46 PM
felines typically strangle crushing windpipes and canines disembowel or hamstring two opposite ends of the animal...this is basic animal biology stuff anyone with a tv can learn
Unless you watch this film, where they show examples of wolf killed livestock with windpipes removed
http://cryingwolfmovie.com/ (http://cryingwolfmovie.com/)
I am watching this now if i see actual footage of repeated windpipe removal I will change my tune otherwise I will stick with what I have seen and experienced watching canines and felines killing...
nothing will ever make me jump on the annihilate all wolves bandwagon....sharks maybe, gators maybe, mosquitoes yes fleas and ticks yes all other animals have a place even if we don't see it or like it :dunno:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 17, 2011, 06:14:37 AM
I think that "Crying Wolf the Movie" show at least one ripped out windpipe during that long splatter flick montage of wolf attacks. It was just one (or two) amoung many, and could have even been the result of a cougar or other attack. Or it could have resulted from when the wolves started chowing down on their now dead prey.
Post by: Kain on September 17, 2011, 09:37:00 AM
Gray Wolf Kills Elk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkBX2oGWOw#)
So just because a kill has its throat ripped out doesnt mean it was or wasnt a wolf. But if the hamstrings are torn up it will almost always be a wolf.
There is also claws evidence with cougars.
Mountain Lion Takes Down Mature 160 Class Mule Deer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLqJCGNCjo#)
Cougar catches an elk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwUfP9RkRs8#)
But as with all nature there are no hard and fast rules. :chuckle:
Cougar hunts a bighorn sheep (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840CCbREatg#)
Post by: runamuk on September 17, 2011, 09:53:15 AM
I was in no way saying windpipes are only damaged by cats but the opposite that is usually the only place there will be killing damage on a cat kill. Like Kain pointed out cats go for the head and neck....
the movie was pretty good but most the kills they showed were typical canine shred and eviscerate :dunno: didnt see any that I would of attributed to a cat
Post by: demontang on September 20, 2011, 10:14:17 AM
Post by: mulehunter on September 20, 2011, 01:13:43 PM
Mulehunter.
Post by: 358NM on September 20, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
In Neimeyers book Wolfer he goes into great detail on how he examines dead animals to determine how and by what they were killed.
Your explanation is very close to what he has written.
And of course there are exceptions.
The technical aspects of the book and trapping in general were very interesting.
Post by: Kain on September 20, 2011, 01:42:39 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on September 20, 2011, 02:14:06 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebuzzmedia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F01%2Fmaddog_1.jpg&hash=f0be6f3c30fbd5194ac32e15534c471969e49fb9)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbullykuttas.pkscoop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FCaucasian_Shepherd_Temprament.jpg&hash=edb912610e238a2a85bea8bd4567ee30e8c2e352)
Cane Corso
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abouttimecanecorso.com%2Fimages%2FChaos.jpg&hash=90038cca1c5f0eec313c3606ff7bb65b8366ed84)
Post by: Lowedog on September 20, 2011, 02:17:49 PM
Thanks, I will try to find a copy.
I went to Amazon and downloaded a free Kindle app for my laptop and then bought the book and downloaded it.
Post by: 358NM on September 20, 2011, 02:24:38 PM
Another great read on wolves and how they hunt and kill and why they should be controlled to keep ungulate populations from declining is Jim Rearden's book The Wolf Man Of Alaska. It is the life story of Frank Glasner another government trapper from about the 1920's to the 1950's. Maybe it has been mentioned here before but it has lot of great first hand observations of wolf behaviour in it.
Post by: bearpaw on September 23, 2011, 05:45:48 PM
I would suggest watching wolves kill to know how they kill. Here are videos showing wolves killing. Wolves attack the hind end and the neck (the windpipe, not the spine), sometimes one end of the animal, sometimes both ends.
If you look at any of dozens of photos and videos floating around the internet and email, most wolf kills are left in the open and not hidden at all. You can even watch videos to see the wolves kill their prey in open ground and eat it there. They sometimes eat most of the flesh, leave most of the bones, and often only eat some of the hind end, anus, and fetus. Alll videos and photos of wolf kills I have seen and that my son has seen in the wild are usually in the open where its easy for the wolf pack to eat. They have no concern about hiding it. It seems to me very easy to distinguish cougar kills from wolf kills and I am willing to stake my reputation on that fact. This is BS if they say they cannot tell wolf kills from cougar kills, or else the investigating person doesn't know what to look for. :dunno:
Two Wolves Hunting an Elk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2xdRGQ4HT0#)
Wolves Hunting Elk in Snow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4EXm31NyF4#)
Wolves Hunting Bison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_3QiWQh8M#)
Wolves vs Elk Bull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi0J3CFqiXo#noexternalembed)
Post by: Lowedog on September 23, 2011, 07:31:38 PM
Post by: danderson on September 23, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
I have seen a lot of kill sites and was wondering is there a way to tell the differance between a wolf kill and a cougar kill after all the animal has been consumed, I am thinking cougars break up the bomes more to get at the marrow , verses wolf kills dont consume as much so the remains will be more intact.