Post by: goosegetter79 on September 24, 2011, 06:16:04 PM
"My hunt so far.. past up a good 5 pt elk within 10 yards on Tuesday. Shot a bear with my bow at 90 yards like an idiot and hit it a touch back on wed, spot and stalk. Lost that one to a brush field and 90 degree heat. Had 12 voicemails today so had to pack up and handle work... (life)".
Seems kind of far for me but i've never shot a bow in my life!! Would you take a shot like that?
Post by: steve04 on September 24, 2011, 06:23:57 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 24, 2011, 06:27:18 PM
Did this particular *censored* learn hunting in Utah?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 24, 2011, 06:28:07 PM
Post by: mtbiker on September 24, 2011, 06:31:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 24, 2011, 06:32:40 PM
It's just ridiculous how far people will take shots these days. If you want to shoot that far, use a rifle! :bash:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 24, 2011, 06:33:43 PM
I wouldn't shoot any animal at 90 yards, but I would consider shooting this guy at 90. ;)
That's a little harsh.
But you could consider arming the bear, and giving him a night scope. WDFW regs, and I'm sure Idaho's also, don't apply to Ursus
Post by: goosegetter79 on September 24, 2011, 06:43:13 PM
"I posted this situation cause I am ashamed it happened. I really don't care that some of you feel like you need to reassure me that my wide open broadside 90 yard shot was a bad choice. Thanks guys, I am aware. However I had a pass through and I will post pictures of my victory armor piercing arrow if u don't believe me. I have an adjustable sight and ranged the bear every step. I just hit the bear a touch back and the alder brush hillsides of north Idaho can prove to be impenetrable at times when your trying to track blood . I was practicing 60 yard shots at camp that same day so my confidence in my equipment was high. I would not shoot an elk that far not because of the skill but because I care much more for the hunt of the animal. Yes there all animals but we do not have a hurting bear population and I never actually hunt specifically for bears since i don't care to eat one. I don't trophy hunt for bear, I have passed up many of bears in many of sizes and given the right day id shoot any of them or walk away from them. Remember I am not just shooting bears and leaving them.lol. I am very honest and as you can tell from this post I don't care to only share successful stories to make people think that I am perfect or better than I am. I have shot at more animals and bigger animals than I have hit and the farthest shot before this was 60 yards. There's many more important steps before making a shot then how long it is. Knowing exact range, knowing clear shooting lane, waiting for animal to give proper shot angle, and much more... I have made many of these mistakes because I felt I could do them at 3d shoots all day long, but over the years I have proven to myself that I am far from perfect and I sometimes jump the gun. It's learning curve that I have choose to learn the hard way."
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2011, 07:01:50 PM
Post by: HOYT6.0 on September 24, 2011, 07:19:43 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on September 24, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on September 24, 2011, 07:41:04 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on September 24, 2011, 07:43:19 PM
Post by: Kola16 on September 24, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
We definitely have a few bad apples in the archery hunter barrel.There are plenty in the other departments to.
Post by: SniperDanWA on September 24, 2011, 07:48:00 PM
Post by: deerslyr on September 24, 2011, 08:00:07 PM
The problem is too many people dust off their bow 2 weeks before season ( or wose yet, go out and buy a bow), shoot 10 arrows (maybe) and say... "I am ready ... hit that pie plate 3 times at 40 yards... shoot even hit it a couple of times at 50"... then think they can effectively shoot an animal at those distances. WHat is the cure? No clue but its not just "bowhunters", go to any rifle range a week before modern season.... YIKES!
I shot all summer at the local archery range. the week before season I saw ALOT of new faces. It got to the point where I could barely get a lane and I had never seen any of these guys before and I considered myself a regular. Most of them were shooting 10 inch groups at 40 yards and 12-15 inch groups at 50 yards a few days before the season. They all had to the same response, "thats still in the kill zone of an elk so ill be fine" :bash:
Post by: high country on September 24, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on September 24, 2011, 09:05:29 PM
We definitely have a few bad apples in the archery hunter barrel.There are plenty in the other departments to.
Yes, but as archers we should be setting the standard, maybe the others will catch a clue. Remember, some guy's (Fred Bear, Glen St. Charles and ect.) worked very hard to legitimize hunting in this country. At one time in many states it was not legal to hunt with a bow.
Post by: elkaholic on September 24, 2011, 09:05:51 PM
The ol stink eye.....
Post by: rebal69972 on September 24, 2011, 09:16:48 PM
Post by: Tacomahunter on September 24, 2011, 09:17:39 PM
Post by: pips4bucks on September 24, 2011, 09:51:04 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on September 24, 2011, 10:01:12 PM
Post by: UptheCreek on September 24, 2011, 10:19:29 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 24, 2011, 10:31:46 PM
Post by: bowhunter851 on September 24, 2011, 10:32:40 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 24, 2011, 11:29:39 PM
Post by: rdale14 on September 25, 2011, 12:29:02 AM
Post by: RadSav on September 25, 2011, 04:05:13 AM
I gave my brother strict instructions that if I am ever stupid enough to get a Facebook page he is obligated to kick my ass.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 25, 2011, 04:53:23 AM
Post by: 101521 on September 25, 2011, 06:47:22 AM
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 07:49:21 AM
Conditions were rite, quartering away, and hit him perfict in the heart, piled up no more than 20 yards. Would i do it again, not now, but i had alot of confidence in my shooting, and practicing for 6 months from short to long shots.
Those that never picked up a bow, have no clue what extent others have practiced, and can reach out KILL, and retreve. But your rifles are ok at 500+ yrds, when you hit it in the ass, and say its too far to track. There are people in every hunting method that dont do the work to make it successful.
Post by: high country on September 25, 2011, 08:04:49 AM
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 08:47:15 AM
Getting string jumped a time or two makes a guy wonder how you even think about shots like that.
At 90 yards, do you think they hear it?? Almost a football field away?? Thats a loud ass bow! If thats the case, why hunt at 20 yards, they would jump every time, and make the same poor shot.
Post by: seth30 on September 25, 2011, 08:55:04 AM
I bet they hear the arrow. I put my camera under my target and shot several groups. Every arrow screamed as it went by. If my camera mic picked that up Im sure a animals ears here it as well.Getting string jumped a time or two makes a guy wonder how you even think about shots like that.
At 90 yards, do you think they hear it?? Almost a football field away?? Thats a loud ass bow! If thats the case, why hunt at 20 yards, they would jump every time, and make the same poor shot.
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
I bet they hear the arrow. I put my camera under my target and shot several groups. Every arrow screamed as it went by. If my camera mic picked that up Im sure a animals ears here it as well.Getting string jumped a time or two makes a guy wonder how you even think about shots like that.
At 90 yards, do you think they hear it?? Almost a football field away?? Thats a loud ass bow! If thats the case, why hunt at 20 yards, they would jump every time, and make the same poor shot.
the sound of the arrow is so quiet, by the time the arrow is heard, its inside them, then they jump. The arrows make a sound at 20 yards as well, why dont they jump it? because its too late.
By no way am i condoning this! This just worked out for the best, and lots of practice in case that event happened. Yes, its my trophy, as i feel anything with an arrow is. It just gets to me, the modern, and muzeloaders want to tell archers how unethical we are when you do the same crap. Its not just archers that make the poor long range shots.
Post by: high country on September 25, 2011, 09:07:52 AM
Post by: seth30 on September 25, 2011, 09:10:28 AM
I have seen plenty of whitetails lock in on an arrow at 30-40 yds and duck it or jump it. Bears are not as quick, but a whitey on high alert is an amazing animal.:yeah: I missed a blacktail on opening day, and she actually came back to sniff the arrow. But when I went to notch the second arrow she was gone before I could blink.
Post by: Buckslaya on September 25, 2011, 10:15:54 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 25, 2011, 10:32:18 AM
In my opinion, taking a shot like this, no matter how well you shoot at stationary targets, is irresponsible and unethical, and is typical of a bow hunter who is unable to get close to his quarry (which should be the whole point of bow hunting). There are far too many things outside of your control when shooting at a living thing at this distance. If you act out of respect for the animal, there would never be a question about taking this shot.
Post by: mtbiker on September 25, 2011, 10:46:58 AM
Well said, pianoman9701.
Post by: dscubame on September 25, 2011, 11:06:32 AM
There is the conflicts surrounding bow hunting itself then there are so many conflicts within the bowhunting community.
I find my observation and perception interesting that is all I am saying.
Post by: pips4bucks on September 25, 2011, 11:16:23 AM
I bet they hear the arrow. I put my camera under my target and shot several groups. Every arrow screamed as it went by. If my camera mic picked that up Im sure a animals ears here it as well.Getting string jumped a time or two makes a guy wonder how you even think about shots like that.
At 90 yards, do you think they hear it?? Almost a football field away?? Thats a loud ass bow! If thats the case, why hunt at 20 yards, they would jump every time, and make the same poor shot.
At 90 yards it's unlikely the animal would hear the bow fire, but they'll hear that arrow whistling toward them for sure. I've learned the hard way about noisy arrow flight. I've had 2 animals jump when they heard the arrow and I hit them in less than desireable spots. I recovered both of them but I wasn't pleased with the initial hit. Both shots were under 30 yards and I am really anal about my bow being quiet and have nearly every noise dampening accessory on it.
Now, if I try out a new fletching, and it doesn't pass the noise test, it doesn't go with me hunting.
Post by: goosegetter79 on September 25, 2011, 11:32:16 AM
Post by: christopheri on September 25, 2011, 11:34:14 AM
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 25, 2011, 11:38:24 AM
He could have had a 90 yard pin. So he could have held right on it.
Stupid stupid stupid no matter how you look at this situation.
Post by: goosegetter79 on September 25, 2011, 12:13:06 PM
Goosegetter
He could have had a 90 yard pin. So he could have held right on it.
Stupid stupid stupid no matter how you look at this situation.
K thanks
Post by: seth30 on September 25, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
Post by: high country on September 25, 2011, 04:16:24 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 25, 2011, 06:04:38 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 25, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
:yeah:yeah yeah :yeah: :tup:
Well said, pianoman9701.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 25, 2011, 07:56:41 PM
How much velocity does a arrow lose at that distance? I have never shot that far on purpose :chuckle:Depends on the size of vanes/fletching in comparison to the arrow weight. It is a bit though. With a long, light arrow that has most weight near the broadhead the balance will be far forward so the vanes can be small giving less velocity drop. Whereas with a crossbow the bolts are short and need large vanes to keep steady---so they slow down very quickly.
Post by: got2hunt on September 25, 2011, 08:06:50 PM
Post by: Snapshot on September 26, 2011, 11:07:04 AM
An arrow travelling at 300 FPS takes a full second to reach it's target at 90 yards. It doesn't matter how well you shoot. An animal can move further than a full body length in a second. In addition, I don't care if you're Superman, you can't see small obstructions like twigs at that distance. To add to that, the consequence of wounding a bear with a shot like this is the danger that it puts others in.
In my opinion, taking a shot like this, no matter how well you shoot at stationary targets, is irresponsible and unethical, and is typical of a bow hunter who is unable to get close to his quarry (which should be the whole point of bow hunting). There are far too many things outside of your control when shooting at a living thing at this distance. If you act out of respect for the animal, there would never be a question about taking this shot.
:yeah:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 26, 2011, 11:42:14 AM
I killed my buck this year at 83 yards on the opening Saturday of deer. The buck walked off 40 yards and bedded and didn't move. Arrow almost passed through the deer
Respectfully, were I you, I'd consider that there are things outside my abilities which could effect such a shot, and perhaps you should reconsider doing this again. I say you were damn lucky of a humane kill at that distance. I'm not judging. I'm asking you to think about outside circumstance which might cause you to wound and lose animals at this extreme range, crack shot or not. I, too, can punch paper at a 100 yards, but my limit for living things is more like 40 and under.
Post by: demontang on September 26, 2011, 12:00:33 PM
Post by: NoBark on September 26, 2011, 12:10:10 PM
Post by: dirty24d on September 26, 2011, 12:15:33 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 26, 2011, 12:25:39 PM
Quote
Hey look an animal at 90 yards!! Get ready!!!:chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 26, 2011, 03:01:40 PM
Hey look an animal at 90 yards!! Get ready!!!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :yeah:
Post by: sirmissalot on September 26, 2011, 03:42:33 PM
Some people are just completely full of it. And/or stupid.
Post by: Gobble Gobble on September 26, 2011, 03:49:54 PM
Quote
"I posted this situation cause I am ashamed it happened.
Really!?! I find that hard to believe. :dunno:
Quote
I really don't care that some of you feel like you need to reassure me that my wide open broadside 90 yard shot was a bad choice. Thanks guys, I am aware.
It's obvious he doesn't care what people think.
Quote
However I had a pass through and I will post pictures of my victory armor piercing arrow if u don't believe me.
Great at least he shot a sharp BH that had enough energy left to pass through. I bet it wouldn't have if he hit bone.
Quote
I have an adjustable sight and ranged the bear every step. I just hit the bear a touch back and the alder brush hillsides of north Idaho can prove to be impenetrable at times when your trying to track blood.
An adjustable site is better than a fixed pin?
He hit a bit back because he took a shot 30 yrds farther than what he has practiced!
He should have just said "I didn't try looking because I'm lazy and it was hot."
Quote
I was practicing 60 yard shots at camp that same day so my confidence in my equipment was high.
Confidence in equipment and competence in skill are two different things.
Quote
I would not shoot an elk that far not because of the skill but because I care much more for the hunt of the animal. Yes there all animals but we do not have a hurting bear population and I never actually hunt specifically for bears since i don't care to eat one.
He wont shoot an elk at 90 yrds because he cares about them enough to get 30 yrds closer because he has practiced at 60yrds in camp.
This gives him the :tup: to shoot at ranges beyond what he will shoot an elk at.
He doesn't hunt for them specifically because he "doesn't care to eat them." Then why take the shot in the first place! So he didn't go look for the bear not because he was lazy and it was hot but because he doesn't like to way they taste.
Quote
I don't trophy hunt for bear, I have passed up many of bears in many of sizes and given the right day id shoot any of them or walk away from them.
And he didn't walk away this day why?
Quote
Remember I am not just shooting bears and leaving them.lol.
Yes, he did because he said he doesn't care to eat one and he is "lol" about leaving it.
Quote
I am very honest and as you can tell from this post I don't care to only share successful stories to make people think that I am perfect or better than I am.
It's obvious he thinks he is better than everyone cuz he hit a bear at 90 yrds broadside.
Quote
I have shot at more animals and bigger animals than I have hit and the farthest shot before this was 60 yards.
Another example of the difference between confidence in equipment and competence in skill.
Quote
There's many more important steps before making a shot then how long it is. Knowing exact range, knowing clear shooting lane, waiting for animal to give proper shot angle, and much more...
Knowing exact distance is number one for me because if its beyond my set limit for a shot then the rest doesn't mean crap.
Quote
I have made many of these mistakes because I felt I could do them at 3d shoots all day long, but over the years I have proven to myself that I am far from perfect and I sometimes jump the gun. It's learning curve that I have choose to learn the hard way."
Only about 10% of setups shoot dead on between field points and broadheads. I'm sure his setup is not in the 10%. Another reason archers wound game they get an over inflated sense of confidence when shooting fieldpoints. There great for practice but its a BH that is going to harvest the animal and I personally spend more time shooting them than fieldpoints.
If saying he is far from perfect helps him sleep at night then to each his own and he jumped the gun BIG time in my opinion.
His learning curve looks more like a circle to me as he said he chooses to learn the hard way and not from others mistakes. Someone tell this person to NOT STEP IN FRONT OF A TRAIN AS IT COULD CAUSE HARM TO THE TRAIN.
Post by: Johnb317 on September 27, 2011, 11:43:21 AM
Most of us won't take a shot at a facing animal, but if you're hot enough to take a 90 yard shot... why not? (retorical question)
As has been said before can you make the shot ... should you make the shot.
That's where that word ethics comes into play.
imho... btw - 50 is my self imposed max and that would depend too.
Post by: sirmissalot on September 27, 2011, 03:44:50 PM
The problem is too many people dust off their bow 2 weeks before season ( or wose yet, go out and buy a bow), shoot 10 arrows (maybe) and say... "I am ready ... hit that pie plate 3 times at 40 yards... shoot even hit it a couple of times at 50"... then think they can effectively shoot an animal at those distances. WHat is the cure? No clue but its not just "bowhunters", go to any rifle range a week before modern season.... YIKES!
You're exactly right. Its not fair to the animals.
I had a friend who was new to hunting tag along with me last year. I watched him shoot and we practiced a lot. He proved to me he was a good shot, shooting better than me even at several 3d shoots. Opening day of deer I spot a spike buck in a vulnerable spot, tell him where to go and I pushed the deer to him, 16 yards away my buddy stops the buck with a grunt (just like he saw on tv) deer stops perfectly broadside and he shoots it... right through the guts. Needless to say we never found the poor deer. The next weekend we see a nice little 2 point with an eye guard "he's 33 yards take your time hes not going anywhere" TWACK he shoots right over the buck. The little buck runs a little and stops, back to feeding. "42 yards, take your time and kill him" My buddy shoots high and barely clips his back. Not sure what the moral of this story is other than buck fever can suck, and I don't know how to cure it other than with experience. All three shots were well within both of our comfort zones, and the deer cooperated perfectly. As archers and successful hunters we have probably all missed our share of animals, stretching the limits of ourselves and our equipment out to yardages like 70,80,90+ yards increases the chances of not only missing, but wounding an animal. Unfortunately I know the feeling of not finding an animal which you know is mortally wounded, its a sick and horrible feeling I hope to never feel again.
Post by: throttlejocky20 on September 27, 2011, 04:03:49 PM
Post by: goosegetter79 on September 27, 2011, 06:08:04 PM
"I would not shoot an elk that far not because of the skill but because I care much more for the hunt of the animal. Yes there all animals but we do not have a hurting bear population and I never actually hunt specifically for bears since i don't care to eat one."
Post by: Lowedog on September 27, 2011, 06:50:23 PM
Quote
You have been highly criticized for writing about shots deemed unethical by the NBEF - and other bowhunting writers. Has your opinion changed about taking long shots?
In a nutshell, I guess my feeling about longer range shooting is this: Some people earn the right to shoot farther than other people because they work harder at becoming good shots. If you don’t feel that you need to shoot beyond 20 or 25 yards and never practice beyond 20-25 yards, that’s fine.
The late great Fred Bear made no bones about shooting an animal with his recurve bow up to 60 yards or more. Saxton Pope and Art Young collaborated on the fourth biggest grizzly bear in Pope and Young which they killed somewhere around 70 yards with a longbow. It's ironic that today, where the equipment is more accurate than ever before, there are bow hunters who get genuinely upset when they hear about somebody shooting beyond 30 or 35 yards. I don’t quite honestly understand that. When you look at official Pope & Young statistics on animals entered in the record book it's a real eye-opener too. For example many of the top record book mule deer in Pope & Young where shot beyond 40 or 50 yards. Many of the rocky mountain goats, dall sheep, bighorn sheep and stone sheep in the book were shot beyond 40 or 50 yards. Fred Bear shot his former world record stone sheep at 60 yards with his recurve bow and he made no apologizes for that and killed it dead.
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 27, 2011, 07:56:52 PM
Post by: lokidog on September 27, 2011, 08:53:07 PM
A Candid Interview With Chuck Adams http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/interviews/chuckadams/ (http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/interviews/chuckadams/)QuoteYou have been highly criticized for writing about shots deemed unethical by the NBEF - and other bowhunting writers. Has your opinion changed about taking long shots?
In a nutshell, I guess my feeling about longer range shooting is this: Some people earn the right to shoot farther than other people because they work harder at becoming good shots. If you don’t feel that you need to shoot beyond 20 or 25 yards and never practice beyond 20-25 yards, that’s fine.
The late great Fred Bear made no bones about shooting an animal with his recurve bow up to 60 yards or more. Saxton Pope and Art Young collaborated on the fourth biggest grizzly bear in Pope and Young which they killed somewhere around 70 yards with a longbow. It's ironic that today, where the equipment is more accurate than ever before, there are bow hunters who get genuinely upset when they hear about somebody shooting beyond 30 or 35 yards. I don’t quite honestly understand that. When you look at official Pope & Young statistics on animals entered in the record book it's a real eye-opener too. For example many of the top record book mule deer in Pope & Young where shot beyond 40 or 50 yards. Many of the rocky mountain goats, dall sheep, bighorn sheep and stone sheep in the book were shot beyond 40 or 50 yards. Fred Bear shot his former world record stone sheep at 60 yards with his recurve bow and he made no apologizes for that and killed it dead.
Just because it CAN be done by some doesn't mean it SHOULD be done by all or even most.... I took a 100 yard shot once at an elk, BUT, it was already wounded with a liver hit. I shaved it's chest just low. I had also been shooting to 100 yards that year, accurately. I would never have shot at a healthy elk past fifty yards, but that was MY ethical limit. Another year I limited my shots to 30 yards because my bow had been acting up as I could not get decent groups past that distance, later found that it had a crack in one of the forks.... :yike: I did end up getting a decent little bull though. :)
Post by: Stilly bay on September 28, 2011, 09:07:29 AM
then again what do I know, if I am not mistaken some of the first bow seasons were instituted by a couple of felons who could no longer legally shoot guns in the US, So they bent the rules to continue hunting.