Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: swanny on September 27, 2011, 08:58:08 AM

Title: Eye guards count?
Post by: swanny on September 27, 2011, 08:58:08 AM: Just wanted to be sure, eye guards count as a 3rd point right? Just have to be one inch or longer? I didn't notice it said anything specific to an eye guard in the regs? Thanks!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: youngbuckslayer on September 27, 2011, 09:01:14 AM: eye guards count
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Bean Counter on September 27, 2011, 09:19:28 AM: For it being legal, yes. As far as telling buddies what you shot, I sort of like the west coast tradition of modesty in only counting one side and onlythe REAL points. In the midwest I once saw a 13 POINT BUCK which was really what we'd call a nice 4 point white tail with eyeguards ;)
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 09:25:14 AM: What would that make a spike elk Bean? A no-point with eyeguards? :chuckle:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 09:27:43 AM: Yes, a 2 point with eyeguards is legal, BUT that still doesn't make it a 3 point!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 09:32:08 AM: This argument always makes me chuckle
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Craig on September 27, 2011, 09:49:20 AM: Eye guards count. I say 4X4 with eye guards. For some reason people don't like to admit that they count eye guards but when they measure their deer they sure like those points you get from them.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 09:50:57 AM: Quote
Eye guards count. I say 4X4 with eye guards.

You're not counting the eye guards then. If you were, you would say "5x5".
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: dscubame on September 27, 2011, 09:51:59 AM: Eye guards count both legally and in conversation. Gotta love the elitist though.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Cougeyes on September 27, 2011, 09:53:10 AM: Page 16 in the regs under the definitions it says 3 pt minimum: antler points must be at least one inch long including eye guards. This statement says eye guards are counted towards an antler point as long as it is at least one inch long.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: PolarBear on September 27, 2011, 09:54:57 AM: Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 09:27:43 AM
Yes, a 2 point with eyeguards is legal, BUT that still doesn't make it a 3 point!
:yeah:
I don't count a point that is under 1 inch whether it is an eyeguard or not.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: kirkl on September 27, 2011, 09:56:50 AM: I think hes saying they count for legality but calls it a 4pt with eyeguards. Do you just like to argue or what? :bash: who cares how he says it.

Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 09:50:57 AM
Quote
Eye guards count. I say 4X4 with eye guards.

You're not counting the eye guards then. If you were, you would say "5x5".
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 10:04:41 AM: Quote
I think hes saying they count for legality but calls it a 4pt with eyeguards. Do you just like to argue or what? (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/Smileys/default/bash.gif) who cares how he says it.

I understand what he's saying, and I'm sure he's intelligent enough to figure out what I'm saying. And yes, I do like to argue, but I'm not going to argue with you. Sorry.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 10:10:00 AM: Here's how I've always looked at it. When filling out a hunter's report ... let's say I shot a 2 x 2 with 3 inch eyeguards in a 3-point minimum unit. Am I going to submit my report saying I shot a 2x2? Nope, because those eyeguards absolutely count as points if longer than 1 inch and that is absolutely a legal deer.

Not counting the eyeguards as a point is a matter of personal preferance, not legality. The deer mentioned above would be a 3-point according to the WDFW.

I'm a meat hunter for the most part anyway, so the points generally are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned (while of course always making sure point restrictions are accounted for before pulling the trigger)
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: WildBear on September 27, 2011, 10:16:58 AM: I go with 4x4 with eye guards. Was funny to here the biologist last year calling my deer a 5x5. Guess they just go with the legality of it. :twocents:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: haugenna on September 27, 2011, 11:08:51 AM: When you are talking about a whitetail you count all the points.....example a 12 point buck. When you talk about muledeer or blacktail you call them 4points or 3 points or 4x4's or 2x3's with or without eyeguards.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: TheHunt on September 27, 2011, 11:15:28 AM: Great thread btw... I visit mature folks that are friends of the family and a few are in their 80's. When we talk hunting they say we shot a 6x6 up there and a 7X8 here blah, blah, This is all in the 1930's - 60's. They do not count the eye guards or bowtines. When I show them my bulls they always say that is a 4x4. It used to really piss me off but that is how they counted. They have racks in their barns that are off the hook.

I thought I would just throw this in. I also love the people on TV that say I have just shot a 10 pointers.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Machias on September 27, 2011, 11:29:25 AM: :chuckle: I love this topic every year.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: HornHoarder on September 27, 2011, 11:29:59 AM: what an interesting topic. Seems that it is one that will never be agreed upon, but since you asked heres my opinion. I would count any point that is over 1" long, including eyeguards. If it counts for a legal point in antler restriction GMUs, and is also measured for P/Y & B/C records why would I exclude eyeguards?
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 11:38:34 AM: Quote from: Machias on September 27, 2011, 11:29:25 AM
:chuckle: I love this topic every year.

:yeah: :chuckle: I can hear the anti's now ..... "look here Tom, those animal killers over on Hunt-WA are at it again. Couple weeks ago they threw down amongst themselves over ATV access and closed roads, last week they had to take a discussion outside about what is and what isn't private land, it seems a war is constantly inevitable between them about tribal vs. non-tribal hunting, and now this week they are debating what is and what isn't an antler point. Do these guys agree on ANYTHING?"
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: str8meat on September 27, 2011, 11:42:58 AM: yes eye gaurds count. and yes they are a point in however you say 3x3 with eye guards. its whatever ya like. you'd shoot him if he had forks and guards right? kinda like using only half the deer for food because some people dont think " eye gaurds" count. its a legal point just like his left hind quarter is roasts and steaks.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: CascadeHillbilly on September 27, 2011, 01:30:05 PM: For all the information I can find, eyeguards DO count as long as they are one inch long. This is read straight out of the WDFW Regulations handbook for 2011 page 16. Same goes for elk However a spike with a rare double eyeguard is NOT a 3 point. The antlers have to branch above the ears to be considered a branched antler. So a branch above the ears, and an inch long eyeguard is a 3pt.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: 724wd on September 27, 2011, 01:45:40 PM: i was going to screenshot the regs with the picture showing the eye guard measured at an inch, but they changed the pic! non of the deer in the regs have eye guards now! gonna have to check previous years regs to see when the changed that.

now the important stuff... how I count deer points! :chuckle: whitetail: count each point per side equally, ie 4x5, 2x4, etc. if equal points per side it's a X point (3 point, not 3x3). Mule deer: count each side individually without eyeguards ie 4x4, 3x5, etc. if eye guards are present, add to your description "plus eye guards." if no eye guards are present, "no eye guards."

the southern way of counting ("got me a 8 pointer, yall!") is not descriptive enough! was it a 3x5? a 4 point? 1x7? :chuckle: :tup:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 27, 2011, 02:25:00 PM: Quote from: CascadeHillbilly on September 27, 2011, 01:30:05 PM
For all the information I can find, eyeguards DO count as long as they are one inch long. This is read straight out of the WDFW Regulations handbook for 2011 page 16. Same goes for elk However a spike with a rare double eyeguard is NOT a 3 point. The antlers have to branch above the ears to be considered a branched antler. So a branch above the ears, and an inch long eyeguard is a 3pt.
the regs page 39 say that "2antler points above the ear" not points origionating above the ear. I would think with longer eyeguards the point would be above the ear and legal. So a spike double eyeguard would be legal if the point of one eyeguard is above the ear.
I count any scoreable point for deer or elk.
Careful miles... I bet polar bear has plenty of pope and young unicorns... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: LincolnTWilliams on September 27, 2011, 02:38:46 PM: Quote from: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 09:32:08 AM
This argument always makes me chuckle

For sure! I'm from Pa and we would call a 4x4 with eye guards a 10. Funny though your west coast lingo is wearing off on me... But I will never refer to a 2 point as a forked horn... ever. In Pa they would be refered to as a Y buck... Which might be as equally humrous to you as forked horn is to me.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 02:43:03 PM: In Oregon a 2 point is called a "forken horn". :chuckle: :dunno:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Dhoey07 on September 27, 2011, 02:46:36 PM: This argument will go on forever. Now after saying that, i don't count eyeguards :)
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: 724wd on September 27, 2011, 02:49:59 PM: Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 02:43:03 PM
In Oregon a 2 point is called a "forken horn". :chuckle: :dunno:

forken horn? :dunno: :chuckle: tee hee... he said forken! :lol4: every one knows it's a fork-ed horn! not forked horn, but two syllables, fork-ed. :)
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Bean Counter on September 27, 2011, 02:50:23 PM: Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 10:04:41 AM
Quote
I think hes saying they count for legality but calls it a 4pt with eyeguards. Do you just like to argue or what? (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/Smileys/default/bash.gif) who cares how he says it.

I understand what he's saying, and I'm sure he's intelligent enough to figure out what I'm saying. And yes, I do like to argue, but I'm not going to argue with you. Sorry.

:lol4:

Quote from: CedarPants on September 27, 2011, 09:25:14 AM
What would that make a spike elk Bean? A no-point with eyeguards? :chuckle:

haha.. but I just call a spike a 'spike.' ;)
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: LincolnTWilliams on September 27, 2011, 03:05:18 PM: Hahaha Right a fork-ed horn... sorry. Forken Horn? Really? Even better!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 03:07:19 PM: Yep. Fork-en horn, with an "n". That's right. I'm sure someone on here from Oregon can confirm it.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: swanny on September 27, 2011, 04:14:51 PM: Quote from: youngbuckslayer on September 27, 2011, 09:01:14 AM
eye guards count

Thank you

I thought in previous years the picture showed them in the regs but I didn't see it this year.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Mike O on September 27, 2011, 10:55:50 PM: I count every point, not to give myself credit but to credit the animal. I'm not a fan of "deductions" either (unless it is tax time) because it seems kind of ridiculous to me to penalize the animal for not managing to grow perfectly symmetrical antlers. My blacktail is a 4x3 because it has only one eye guard. The 2010 Texas whitetail in my avatar is a 9-point because it has 2 eye guards but broke off a point in the rut. If I shot it further west I would call it a 5x4. Counting all the points doesn't make me a better hunter but it does seem silly to pretend a point staring me in the face isn't there.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: huntnnw on September 27, 2011, 11:06:41 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Miles on September 27, 2011, 11:12:11 PM: Quote from: Mike O on September 27, 2011, 10:55:50 PM
Counting all the points doesn't make me a better hunter but it does seem silly to pretend a point staring me in the face isn't there.

:chuckle:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on September 27, 2011, 11:13:35 PM: This one always gets good every year! A eye gaurd is a legal point. It does not matter if you count them or not. Mr. game warden will count them and if they make a deer a legal deer "by law" then yes they count :tup:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: huntnnw on September 27, 2011, 11:28:52 PM: so all u guys that dont count them probably shouldnt count them either in point restricted areas so they better have 3 up top..or u are a hippocrit if ya shoot a forked muley with a brow
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: PolarBear on September 27, 2011, 11:33:51 PM: Some folks that I hunt with don't shoot them unless they have at least 3 points on the main beam and still do not count the eye guards. Point restrictions don't matter when your standards are greater than the restriction by at least a full point.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Miles on September 27, 2011, 11:35:46 PM: Some of us don't even count the points anymore, we go by the length and mass of the main beams. Counting any antler growth that is under 15 inches is foolish. That's my standard, try and top that one Polarbear. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: huntnnw on September 27, 2011, 11:43:17 PM: elitest has chimmed in...I wont shoot anyhting unless it has 24" main beams and 18" of mass a side
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 28, 2011, 08:00:49 AM: Guys I hunt with don't even take bullets because their standards are so.far and above the restriction that they won't ever see one that meets. :yike:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: rickomatic on September 28, 2011, 09:54:20 AM: Quote
This one always gets good every year! A eye gaurd is a legal point. It does not matter if you count them or not. Mr. game warden will count them and if they make a deer a legal deer "by law" then yes they count

I don't know about you guys, but I never count eyeguards when making a shoot/don't shoot decision in a restricted area. Not unless they're obviously longer than an inch. I have enough trouble counting points by themselves let alone trying to "measure" eyeguards on a 2x2 to determine if it's technically legal. :o
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: firefighter4607 on September 28, 2011, 12:06:33 PM: Quote from: swanny on September 27, 2011, 08:58:08 AM
Just wanted to be sure, eye guards count as a 3rd point right? Just have to be one inch or longer? I didn't notice it said anything specific to an eye guard in the regs? Thanks!

By the law yes eye guards count if they are over 1".
My :twocents: . Am I going to risk my tag and hunting rights by measuring at eye guards? NO!!!! I know a few people who shot a 2 point with eye guards that were a tad over an inch. I don't want to put myself in thoses shoes.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Dhoey07 on September 28, 2011, 12:11:14 PM: Quote from: 724wd on September 27, 2011, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 02:43:03 PM
In Oregon a 2 point is called a "forken horn". :chuckle: :dunno:

forken horn? :dunno: :chuckle: tee hee... he said forken! :lol4: every one knows it's a fork-ed horn! not forked horn, but two syllables, fork-ed. :)

I say forken horn when describing a 2 point. I think calling it a fork-ed horn just sounds silly
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: boneaddict on September 28, 2011, 12:17:35 PM: Quote
Yes, a 2 point with eyeguards is legal, BUT that still doesn't make it a 3 point!
Yep
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 28, 2011, 12:51:31 PM: Quote
I say forken horn when describing a 2 point. I think calling it a fork-ed horn just sounds silly.

And where in Oregon are you from, might I ask?
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: gundogr on September 28, 2011, 03:03:11 PM: I am probly an old-timer to most of you guys and don't consider myself an elitest. Would I like to shoot a buck with more points, bigger spread, heavier beams than smaller? fork-en right!! (I couldn't resist!) But I am kind of old school cuz my dad and grandad and all those who came before me called my first buck a forked horn even though it had a nice branch up top and about 2" eye guards!! (still haven't forgiven/forgot them that) Anyway, a 4 point bull elk with triple eye guards is a four point in my book. But a forked derned nice one at that!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Alan K on September 28, 2011, 07:03:59 PM: I call it whatever it is so that it's best described. To me that means the points above ears generally, at least with deer. When I think 3 point I think your front fork and a long tine in back, like most people. If someone shot a forked horn with eye guards and told me they shot a nice 3 point, and I went over to look at it just to see a 2 point with eye guards I'd laugh at him/her. :twocents:

And this is generally with blacktails or mule deer. Deer that don't always have eye guards, so the best way to describe them so that anyone would understand what the frame of the rack looks like is to say points above the ears followed by w/ eye guards if it applies.

And sure, a forked horn mule deer with eye guards is legal per 3 point minimum rule, but in describing it to people I wouldn't call it a 3 point, I'd call it a two point with eye guards. It describes the caliber of the animal more accurately.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: SuperDutyHunter on September 28, 2011, 07:29:52 PM: Quote from: 724wd on September 27, 2011, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 02:43:03 PM
In Oregon a 2 point is called a "forken horn". :chuckle: :dunno:

forken horn? :dunno: :chuckle: tee hee... he said forken! :lol4: every one knows it's a fork-ed horn! not forked horn, but two syllables, fork-ed. :)

That's just forken rediculous!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Arteman on September 28, 2011, 07:45:19 PM: Quote from: haugenna on September 27, 2011, 11:08:51 AM
When you are talking about a whitetail you count all the points.....example a 12 point buck. When you talk about muledeer or blacktail you call them 4points or 3 points or 4x4's or 2x3's with or without eyeguards.
I think your right on with this comment, I count them like the way you say about the blacktail and muledeer. Always with whitetail you here people count all the points. Maybe because more often then not all whitetail have eyeguards, at least compared to muledeer and especially blacktail they do. Now what's really funny is when I here my dad count elk where he would call a 5 pt bull a 3 pt with double eyeguards or a 4 pt a fork n horn with double eyeguards, I argue with him about it constantly, he's set in his old ways though.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 28, 2011, 07:47:38 PM: Quote from: Arteman on September 28, 2011, 07:45:19 PM
a 4 pt a fork n horn with double eyeguards

See! There it is! Someone who's apparently from Oregon. A forken horn! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Arteman on September 28, 2011, 07:57:53 PM: Quote from: bobcat on September 27, 2011, 02:43:03 PM
In Oregon a 2 point is called a "forken horn". :chuckle: :dunno:
Agreed, its the same in southwest Wash. Never heard any other way from anybody here, except when somebody shoots a exceptionally big one then I've heard people jokingly say that's isn't no fork n horn, that's a 2 pt.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: 3nails on September 28, 2011, 08:30:27 PM: A visual for how I've always done it. The whitetail (1st pic) I would call a 5x6 with a split eyeguard. The mule deer (2nd pic) I'd call a 4x4 with one eyeguard. The blacktail (3rd pic) I'd call a 4x4 with eyeguards. :twocents:
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: huntnnw on September 28, 2011, 10:10:39 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on September 28, 2011, 12:17:35 PM
Quote
Yes, a 2 point with eyeguards is legal, BUT that still doesn't make it a 3 point!
Yep

but anyone on here who says the brow doesnt count shouldnt be shooting...or they just proved what a hippocrit they are
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: bobcat on September 28, 2011, 10:16:16 PM: I count the eyeguards- but not as points- I count them as "eyeguards". I don't like that a 2 point with eyeguards is legal in a 3 point minimum area. Just because it has eyeguards doesn't mean it's older than a buck that has the exact same size antlers, and configuration, but minus the eyeguards.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: wreckerman5357 on September 28, 2011, 10:37:24 PM: Quote from: bobcat on September 28, 2011, 10:16:16 PM
I count the eyeguards- but not as points- I count them as "eyeguards". I don't like that a 2 point with eyeguards is legal in a 3 point minimum area. Just because it has eyeguards doesn't mean it's older than a buck that has the exact same size antlers, and configuration, but minus the eyeguards.

The only problem I have with shooting two points with eyeguards in 3 point or better units is that its too hard to tell if the eyeguards are big enough to count as a third point! I would have shot twice as many deer over my hunting career if it wasn't for this rule.
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Arteman on September 29, 2011, 09:14:13 AM: Quote from: 3nails on September 28, 2011, 08:30:27 PM
A visual for how I've always done it. The whitetail (1st pic) I would call a 5x6 with a split eyeguard. The mule deer (2nd pic) I'd call a 4x4 with one eyeguard. The blacktail (3rd pic) I'd call a 4x4 with eyeguards. :twocents:
I don't care what you call them bucks, I'd call them all dandys for sure, nice bucks, especially like the blacktail!
Title: Re: Eye guards count?
Post by: Mike450r on September 29, 2011, 09:51:37 AM: I only count one side (like it should be done) For mulies and blackies I would say 2 point with eyegaurds for example. I only count both sides if they are not even but still break it down one side x the other side. i.e. 2 x 3 with eye gaurds. I never say 4 x 4 or 3 x 3 with deer, those would be 4 point or 3 point. Just how I learned it from my grandpa

Elk I don't break it down, all points count, i.e 5 x 5, 6 x 6 etc....