Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2011, 06:51:53 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2Flegalornot.jpg&hash=d1a0ec79923e51607a9cfb3cbff12461d18b5734)
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 31, 2011, 06:57:36 AM
I'm not the spike expert, but am thinking this one could end you up in court. Anythoughts?
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2Flegalornot.jpg&hash=d1a0ec79923e51607a9cfb3cbff12461d18b5734)
See, this is why elk hunting for white folk should just come to an end; Enough already. :bash:
As far a the picture goes, amazing bone. Your photography is really incredible art.
Post by: Woodchuck on October 31, 2011, 06:58:03 AM
Post by: Huntbear on October 31, 2011, 07:23:02 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 31, 2011, 07:23:55 AM
He would have to walk if it were left to me :dunno:
I would pass but some slob will smoke him at 300yds and then leave lay when he walks up to him.
Post by: Woodchuck on October 31, 2011, 07:24:29 AM
Post by: teanawayslayer on October 31, 2011, 07:36:07 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2011, 07:37:24 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 31, 2011, 07:40:11 AM
He would have to walk if it were left to me :dunno:
I would pass but some slob will smoke him at 300yds and then leave lay when he walks up to him.
Naw, your native buddies would throw him in the truck with the rest of their pile. :stirthepot:
"Don't hate the players hate the game."
Post by: Glockster on October 31, 2011, 08:26:13 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 31, 2011, 08:51:46 AM
He would have to walk if it were left to me :dunno:
I would pass but some slob will smoke him at 300yds and then leave lay when he walks up to him.
Naw, your native buddies would throw him in the truck with the rest of their pile. :stirthepot:
"Don't hate the players hate the game."
:yeah: You bet! I'm not picky when it comes to meat. He would definitely go on top of the pile of other animals I slaughtered while road hunting. :chuckle:
Post by: 400out on October 31, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 31, 2011, 09:45:18 AM
He would have to walk if it were left to me :dunno:
I would pass but some slob will smoke him at 300yds and then leave lay when he walks up to him.
Naw, your native buddies would throw him in the truck with the rest of their pile. :stirthepot:
"Don't hate the players hate the game."
:yeah: You bet! I'm not picky when it comes to meat. He would definitely go on top of the pile of other animals I slaughtered while road hunting. :chuckle:
With the .50 cal mounted on the bed of the truck & all the keys to all the gates and all the locators to the collared elk and all the locators to the planted wolves as not to mess up the program and black helicopters as well right? Did I miss anything????
Post by: colockumelk on October 31, 2011, 10:00:21 AM
Exactly what is WRONG about antler point restrictions, true spike etc. This is quite obviously a 1.5yr old just like amost all the other spikes in circulation; but quite un-obvious as to his legality. Leads to nothing but waste because someone will shoot him first and check later.
I agree. If an area is so bad off that it needs to go to "true spike" it needs to just be permit only until the bull to cow ratio is back where it needs to be. The group that my true spike was in had 3 other "true spikes in the bunch." From 300yds away with 10x binos 3 looked like 100% true spikes and one was questionable. Once we had stalked up on them and were within 50yds it soon became apparant that my spike was the only "true spike". I guarantee you that if that had been rifle season all 4 would have been shot. I bet two of those are laying somewhere dead right now because most people are too excited/lazy/irresponsible to check their target and make 100% sure its legal.
The WDFW has talked to me at length about the "True Spike" thing in the Colockum. They believe that it is gonna work. They even went so far as to "guarantee" me that after three years the herd will have doubled its bull to cow ratio. My response was big deal. So instead of 3:100 it will be 6:100. Its still 3x lower than what it should be. I can't wait for the management report to come out showing what the survey results are since this will have been the third season since they went to true spike. Yes expect an article to be sent to the Yakima Herald etc. They did say if the true spike thing didn't work that they would go to permit only. I'm gonna hold them to that.
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2011, 10:10:48 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 31, 2011, 10:26:35 AM
I'm thinking just stop hunting in that unit for a year. If I remember correctly that would also stop tribal hunting there for a year, becasue isn't it written in the articles that if hunting has to be shut down because of management then it also stops that portion. Not trying to turn this into another tribal thread god forbid. I think for management sakes we could go a year. Course more feed for the wolves, but thats another......
Its not written in the Articles it is part of the Boldt Decision. The Boldt Decision left the WDFW the right to manage tribal harvest for managment purposes. So even though we have antler restrictions for "managment purposes" they still can't manage tribal harvest since we have an open season. In legal speak a spike and a 6x6 bull is the same. A bull is a bull. So while the Yakamas and Muckleshoots easily get their 50% when it comes to branch bulls. Legally speaking if you add in all the spikes that are taken during the general season the Tribes don't get their 50%.
If the WDFW did in fact close a GMU to hunting for managment and conservation then they could in fact keep the Tribes from hunting in that GMU. Of course the tribes would fight this in court but it would take years like everything else in our legal system. If they go to permit only and give out say 10 permits for branch bulls then the tribes would also get 10 permits for branch bulls.
I am not a fan or support closing it down for a year. Because after a couple years you would be back to square 1. It should go to permit only until they (WDFW, and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation) can fix and correct the main reasons why there is such a small spike recruitment. Because until the main issue is fixed then you're either treading water or every three yeaers you'll be back to square one. And for those who want to know the main issue is its too open with too many roads.
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2011, 10:30:29 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 31, 2011, 10:39:34 AM
Thanks for explaining that Clock.
No problem Bone. At least someone appreciates my "nerdiness" :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 31, 2011, 04:31:11 PM
He would have to walk if it were left to me :dunno:
I would pass but some slob will smoke him at 300yds and then leave lay when he walks up to him.
Naw, your native buddies would throw him in the truck with the rest of their pile. :stirthepot:
"Don't hate the players hate the game."
:yeah: You bet! I'm not picky when it comes to meat. He would definitely go on top of the pile of other animals I slaughtered while road hunting. :chuckle:
With the .50 cal mounted on the bed of the truck & all the keys to all the gates and all the locators to the collared elk and all the locators to the planted wolves as not to mess up the program and black helicopters as well right? Did I miss anything????
Was that you in the SUV next to me cruising through town showing off my new ride? :rockin: :mgun: :kneel:
Post by: Dan-o on October 31, 2011, 04:42:02 PM
I'd take it home and take my chances, because I wouldn't waste it....
Post by: hunterofelk on October 31, 2011, 04:45:01 PM
Post by: got2hunt on October 31, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Post by: colockumelk on November 01, 2011, 04:34:07 AM
But.... There is a point when it gets so restrictive that it starts to become almost like entrapment. The WDFW never should have put people in this situation to begin with.
Post by: colockumelk on November 01, 2011, 04:35:42 AM
Post by: groundhog on November 01, 2011, 07:40:39 AM
I gotta ask. Do you really believe the WDFW numbers regarding the bull to cow ratio in the Colockum?? Three bulls per hundred cows??? Come on. You can go anywhere in the unit in September and you will find big herd bulls with a harem of ten to forty cows and at least four to six satelite bulls.
The only way to come up with three bulls per hundred cows is to fly the cow herd in April and count the spikes that are still hanging with the cows. Never mind the bachelor groups of big bulls. It is the classic example of "Garbage in garbage out".
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 01, 2011, 07:49:15 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 01, 2011, 08:20:57 AM
Bone, if you don't mind me asking, what camera and lens were you using to take this picture?
:tup: The only appropriate question in this thread :twocents:
Post by: Pathfinder101 on November 01, 2011, 08:35:23 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 01, 2011, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: GoldTip on November 01, 2011, 09:26:41 AM
Post by: Rooster1981 on November 01, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
People for sure need to ne a lot more sure of tje Target they are shooting at. That is for certain. Too many guys that don't care and just shoot.
But.... There is a point when it gets so restrictive that it starts to become almost like entrapment. The WDFW never should have put people in this situation to begin with.
I completely agree, I have found out first hand what happens and its not a fun time. I first thing you do is call it in, if you play by the book the fine is minimal and you dont loose any hunting privileges.
Post by: colockumelk on November 01, 2011, 09:58:00 AM
Clock,
I gotta ask. Do you really believe the WDFW numbers regarding the bull to cow ratio in the Colockum?? Three bulls per hundred cows??? Come on. You can go anywhere in the unit in September and you will find big herd bulls with a harem of ten to forty cows and at least four to six satelite bulls.
The only way to come up with three bulls per hundred cows is to fly the cow herd in April and count the spikes that are still hanging with the cows. Never mind the bachelor groups of big bulls. It is the classic example of "Garbage in garbage out".
Groundhog good question. Yes I do believe it. First of all during September while hunting I found one group of 20-25 cows that had a large 330"ish herd bull with them. Shortly thereafter I found another herd of about 20 with a 260"ish 6pt. On the day I shot my spike I saw around 100 cows or more. There was a total of 5 maybe 6 bulls bugling and running around. So that is about a 5:100 bull to cow ratio. But.... biologists all around the west agree that a healthy bull:cow ratio is at least 15:100. And ALL agree that the ratio that matters is the POST-Hunting season ratio not the PRE-Season Ratio.
The air survey's that the WDFW does in the Yakima PMU's (Primary Management Units) has a high error rate. They survey the winter range and then use a mathematical formula to determine what the actual numbers is. There is one error rate. The second error rate is the Yakima herd is a migratory herd. Meaning a light winter will not have all the elk in the winter range as compared to other winters. There is more room for error.
In the Colockum however they survey the ENTIRE PMU. Also the Colockum elk herd is NOT migratory. Meaning they are always down low. Unless you count the 10 miles from the Naneaum basin to the east end of the Quilomene as a migration. So yes those bachelor groups you speak of are easily seen since also 90% of that herd winters east of the Colockum road in the sage brush. And as a piliot I can assure you that even in the sparse timber of the Colockum elk are very easy to see. You can bank on the numbers for the Colockum being very very accurate. For the Yakima eh not so much. I hope that answered all your questions ground hog.
Post by: groundhog on November 01, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
Clock,
Yep, you answered my question.Thanks for the response. I guess you got it figured out. :chuckle:
Post by: jstone on November 01, 2011, 12:23:51 PM
Post by: colockumelk on November 01, 2011, 12:55:51 PM
Bone, sorry for the thread jack.
Clock,
Yep, you answered my question.Thanks for the response. I guess you got it figured out. :chuckle:
Oh no far from it. I'm still learning everyday. I am just a nerd and have done more research than normal people who have a social life. :chuckle: