Post by: huntnnw on December 05, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 10:07:50 PM
Aside from Deadeye I haven't had any bucks over 130 inches show up on camera since 15 Nov.....and honest almost all 2 1/2 year old plus bucks I have showing up are very sporadic compared to this time of the season in years past. It's like a trickle rut.
Post by: huntnnw on December 05, 2011, 10:15:16 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 10:27:00 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 05, 2011, 10:32:51 PM
Post by: jager on December 05, 2011, 10:41:19 PM
I've not been seeing as many deer this year as I usually do. I'm talking whiteails here. When there was snow in the area a couple weeks ago the lack of tracks confirmed this.
I even went to a spot the other day that is strictly a no hunting area...usually quite few really big bucks....only a saw a few spikes :dunno:
Unit 124 the population is way down. haven't seen an abundance of predator sign... so I don't know. Strange...never seen it this bad.
Post by: PolarBear on December 05, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 10:50:12 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 10:52:49 PM
Are you guys seeing a lack of mature bucks, bucks in general or all deer, does included.
I've not been seeing as many deer this year as I usually do. I'm talking whiteails here. When there was snow in the area a couple weeks ago the lack of tracks confirmed this.
I even went to a spot the other day that is strictly a no hunting area...usually quite few really big bucks....only a saw a few spikes :dunno:
Unit 124 the population is way down. haven't seen an abundance of predator sign... so I don't know. Strange...never seen it this bad.
I'm am seeing less mature bucks than I have in years past but I am seeing dozens of 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks....and even they are sporadic. The overall population seems slightly lower (does included) than it was last year in the areas that I hunt.
Post by: PolarBear on December 05, 2011, 10:56:08 PM
Post by: jnevs23 on December 05, 2011, 10:56:43 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 11:01:35 PM
Yeah, it really sucks over there this year. If they can keep the cats and dogs off of the bucks, we will have a banner hunting season in about 2 years! That snow just before Thanksgiving pushed a lot of deer down by the San Poil, even mule deer which usually do not show up until after the first of the year. There are some hound hunters in the Quartz Mt area right now looking for cats and another group coming in a few weeks. Lets hope they can get a couple of them out of there to up the odds of survival for those little bucks!
I hope they can get some of those cats too brother.
That big snow dump combined with a weird rut really changed movement in my area too.
Post by: huntnnw on December 05, 2011, 11:09:05 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 05, 2011, 11:13:22 PM
Post by: jager on December 05, 2011, 11:17:40 PM
Post by: gjbruny on December 06, 2011, 12:38:36 AM
i have also noticed the same trend this year with a long drawn out rut and less mature animals to choose from....... as of today, i have seen 8 does bred by yearlings this year and that is on my ground alone...... not including the other areas i hunt. that is NOT good for passing on the strongest genes.
one other thing...... during the late bow season, many of us can shoot does to fill tags. i really really wish more guys would do that instead of shooting a 2 year old buck..... or even a 3 year old as a "tag filler". a fully mature doe will yield as much or more meat than a 2 year old buck and maybe 10-15lbs less boned meat than a 3 year old. other than "cull bucks" i hate to see these young deer get shot over does simply because they have a small set of head-gear vs. nothing...... especially when our buck to doe ratios are out of whack. it does nothing for the herd. man i really wish the WFWD would pull their heads out..........
jmo
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 06, 2011, 12:53:13 AM
Post by: gjbruny on December 06, 2011, 02:05:30 AM
Going back to my first post. I forgot to mention in regards to the title of the thread, now that the rut is finally winding down, more hero pics will start showing up as the deer start frequenting the bait piles again.
Post by: huntnnw on December 06, 2011, 03:24:15 AM
We have discussed this before. The does need to be micro-managed and a GMU size area isn't good enough. In deep woods /mountain areas I hunt there are equal or sometimes even less does than bucks. However, on the Farms in the same GMU the does are way out of whack. In the mountain areas I hunt I think taking any buck would be better for the herd than killing one of the does. However, I don't want to do that either unless he is a mature buck so I plan to shoot a doe on one of the farms if things don't work out up here.
:yeah:
Post by: AKBowman on December 06, 2011, 07:43:48 AM
I had a big flurry of buck activity, even some during day when that big rain storm hit around Thanksgiving. Since then it has been pretty gross. Its tough when you hang stands expecting something to happen. Seems like the does are all moving towards the SW facing slopes in the mornings/late mornings to try to get warmed up and get some feed that isnt frozen all day. I plan on using the climber and hunting over the top of my shadow this weekend and next week...looks like the weather is slated for more of the same.
Post by: MtnMuley on December 06, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
now that the rut is finally winding down, more hero pics will start showing up as the deer start frequenting the bait piles again.
:yeah:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 06, 2011, 10:38:44 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 06, 2011, 12:05:54 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on December 06, 2011, 12:33:43 PM
This year the full moon was around 12th of November. I had big bucks coming in during day the three days it was closed. The biggest whitetail I have ever had on camera came in middle of day on 19th. Came back one time in middle of night. Hasn't been back. My son had a shot on a nice 5x5 opening day and shot underneath him. Since then, nothing but doe's and little ones. I was never a believer in the moon until this year.
Post by: KillBilly on December 06, 2011, 12:46:39 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 06, 2011, 04:47:27 PM
Every bow hunter I know right now is dealing with this weird rut. I'm not so confident that it's weird, but that it started early with the moon phases. Look at last year full moon. It was the during the so called peak of the rut here. November 20-23. Of course the game department shut these days down to us because it's the peak. Bucks were going crazy first few days of archery.
This year the full moon was around 12th of November. I had big bucks coming in during day the three days it was closed. The biggest whitetail I have ever had on camera came in middle of day on 19th. Came back one time in middle of night. Hasn't been back. My son had a shot on a nice 5x5 opening day and shot underneath him. Since then, nothing but doe's and little ones. I was never a believer in the moon until this year.
You posted any pics of that big whitetail?
Post by: elkaholic on December 06, 2011, 06:27:17 PM
The game cam my friend has up on his property in stevens county still had the few bigger guys in at night....... He sat in his stand for a week and it was does and a few small guys???
Post by: BAR C3 on December 06, 2011, 07:59:07 PM
Maybe after hunting season. 8)Every bow hunter I know right now is dealing with this weird rut. I'm not so confident that it's weird, but that it started early with the moon phases. Look at last year full moon. It was the during the so called peak of the rut here. November 20-23. Of course the game department shut these days down to us because it's the peak. Bucks were going crazy first few days of archery.
This year the full moon was around 12th of November. I had big bucks coming in during day the three days it was closed. The biggest whitetail I have ever had on camera came in middle of day on 19th. Came back one time in middle of night. Hasn't been back. My son had a shot on a nice 5x5 opening day and shot underneath him. Since then, nothing but doe's and little ones. I was never a believer in the moon until this year.
You posted any pics of that big whitetail?
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 06, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
Maybe after hunting season. 8)Every bow hunter I know right now is dealing with this weird rut. I'm not so confident that it's weird, but that it started early with the moon phases. Look at last year full moon. It was the during the so called peak of the rut here. November 20-23. Of course the game department shut these days down to us because it's the peak. Bucks were going crazy first few days of archery.
This year the full moon was around 12th of November. I had big bucks coming in during day the three days it was closed. The biggest whitetail I have ever had on camera came in middle of day on 19th. Came back one time in middle of night. Hasn't been back. My son had a shot on a nice 5x5 opening day and shot underneath him. Since then, nothing but doe's and little ones. I was never a believer in the moon until this year.
You posted any pics of that big whitetail?
I need to make sure I don't miss them if you do!!! Good luck man!
Post by: jnevs23 on December 06, 2011, 09:30:47 PM
It is puzzling that the lack of mature bucks around seems to be affecting the entire NE corner. This area is very diverse and there is no one thing I can put a finger on that would affect the entire region. For instance take winter kill. Where I hunt it is lowland farming in the area. The deer have it pretty easy down there and it takes a very severe winter to affect this area. Last winter was bad and I was expecting to find more winter kill than normal this spring. I spent a decent amount of time out there this spring and did not see much at all. Same for predators, have not come across any sign of fresh kill. Then I thought maybe it was the mild weather and moon phases pushing them more nocturnal. This likely affected hunting but they should still be showing up on cam. I saw 10-12 bucks that were 3 point or better last year and just one this year. I know some of the bucks i saw were pushed down by snow, but should still be seeing more.
I also have a genetics question that might be another topic for another day. Does a younger deer breeding pass on weaker genes? I have taken a couple biology classes and from what i unserstand your DNA is not going to change based on age. Wether a deer is 2 or 10 he is still going to pass the trait of large antler growth if he posseses it. It seems if a deers father was a massive 5x5, he will at least carry the large antler trait as recessive, i would guess that would be a dominant trait though. So if he breeds at 1 1/2 he is still passing a trait of large antler growth. Anyone have any idea on this? I
Post by: JLS on December 06, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 06, 2011, 10:05:06 PM
Not sure what dates your referring to about 124. I hunted the 24-28th and they were definatly chasing those days, but like I said earlier only one mature buck.
It is puzzling that the lack of mature bucks around seems to be affecting the entire NE corner. This area is very diverse and there is no one thing I can put a finger on that would affect the entire region. For instance take winter kill. Where I hunt it is lowland farming in the area. The deer have it pretty easy down there and it takes a very severe winter to affect this area. Last winter was bad and I was expecting to find more winter kill than normal this spring. I spent a decent amount of time out there this spring and did not see much at all. Same for predators, have not come across any sign of fresh kill. Then I thought maybe it was the mild weather and moon phases pushing them more nocturnal. This likely affected hunting but they should still be showing up on cam. I saw 10-12 bucks that were 3 point or better last year and just one this year. I know some of the bucks i saw were pushed down by snow, but should still be seeing more.
I also have a genetics question that might be another topic for another day. Does a younger deer breeding pass on weaker genes? I have taken a couple biology classes and from what i unserstand your DNA is not going to change based on age. Wether a deer is 2 or 10 he is still going to pass the trait of large antler growth if he posseses it. It seems if a deers father was a massive 5x5, he will at least carry the large antler trait as recessive, i would guess that would be a dominant trait though. So if he breeds at 1 1/2 he is still passing a trait of large antler growth. Anyone have any idea on this? I
Always cracks me up when i hear people say "weak" genes or etc when a young buck breeds. DNA is DNA that buck at 1 1/2 or 10 yr has the same DNA reguardless of age
Post by: gjbruny on December 06, 2011, 10:11:03 PM
. Does a younger deer breeding pass on weaker genes? I have taken a couple biology classes and from what i unserstand your DNA is not going to change based on age. Wether a deer is 2 or 10 he is still going to pass the trait of large antler growth if he posseses it. It seems if a deers father was a massive 5x5, he will at least carry the large antler trait as recessive, i would guess that would be a dominant trait though. So if he breeds at 1 1/2 he is still passing a trait of large antler growth. Anyone have any idea on this? I
the genes will be the same regardless of the age. when your hear people talking about younger deer breeding not being a good thing..... it is not that they are passing on inferior genes...... it is simply the fact that in healthy deer herds, the largest strongest bucks do battle for the rights to do the majority of the breeding thus passing on the strongest of genes. if you have a lot of young bucks doing the breeding, two things are going on..... there is not a healthy population of mature animals in the herd and the buck to doe ratios are out of whack..... this means that it is a virtual free for all and that everything in the current gene pool is passing on its DNA. in herds with healthy B to D ratios with proper age structure..... the little guys don't get to breed nearly as often and the breeding age bucks really have to "earn" their right to breed. the ones that do prove themselves do the brunt of the breeding thus passing on their strong traits.
having said that, the biggest strongest deer don't always have the biggest set of bones on their heads. body mass and power will almost always beat out antlers in breeding battles.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 06, 2011, 10:24:29 PM
Good info in this article below on how unbalanced herds can actually lead to genetic potential not being displayed due to the stress on the yearling bucks being forced to physiologically mature faster than they should.
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/huntingtactics_naw_maturebuck_200808/
Post by: jnevs23 on December 06, 2011, 10:40:03 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 06, 2011, 11:52:44 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 06, 2011, 11:58:07 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2011, 12:02:58 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 07, 2011, 12:07:18 AM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2011, 12:31:25 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 07, 2011, 12:34:57 AM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2011, 12:54:11 AM
Post by: NWBREW on December 07, 2011, 01:16:12 AM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2011, 06:11:06 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 07, 2011, 07:03:33 AM
Post by: Seabass on December 07, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
It was good in Ferry co Nov 15-26th
I'm sure you are right but outside of Ferry county there is no East Side archery open during that time and plenty of gun seasons open.
Post by: Seabass on December 07, 2011, 11:49:07 AM
Genes are genes and it doesn't matter what age you pass them on at. Still the same DNA.This is true but most of the time DNA isn't expressed until the buck is 3 1/2 or older. When you harvest a 2 1/2 year old buck you really have no idea what he would have become and the same goes to him breeding.
I see it in the kids I coach. It is really hard to tell what kind of athelete a kid will grow up to be until he is about 14. I feel like a deer's equivalent age to a 14 year old athelete is about 3 1/2.
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 12:15:55 PM
It was good in Ferry co Nov 15-26th
I'm sure you are right but outside of Ferry county there is no East Side archery open during that time and plenty of gun seasons open.
Archery was open on the east side November 24th, 25th, and 26th in 117, 121, 124 :dunno:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 07, 2011, 01:36:27 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2011, 09:53:04 PM
Post by: Camp David on December 11, 2011, 04:54:23 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 11, 2011, 05:34:17 PM
Pics??
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 11, 2011, 05:44:18 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 11, 2011, 07:17:35 PM
45 I have no doubt that there have been several monsters killed this year.
Post by: jnevs23 on December 11, 2011, 09:01:33 PM
Post by: Oneshot1Kill on December 11, 2011, 09:09:21 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 11, 2011, 09:30:50 PM
Post by: Oneshot1Kill on December 12, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
Post by: Seabass on December 12, 2011, 02:16:26 PM
You are right but that is only 3 of the 12 days the guy was statingIt was good in Ferry co Nov 15-26th
I'm sure you are right but outside of Ferry county there is no East Side archery open during that time and plenty of gun seasons open.
Archery was open on the east side November 24th, 25th, and 26th in 117, 121, 124 :dunno: