Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:06:06 AM
How about we organize a protest at the governor's mansion or the State House? We have a Wildlife Commission that's uninterested in the views and concerns of hunters, so let's let the people of WA know what's going on.
I suggest this. Let's pick a date - for me, April Fool's Day makes all the sense in the world. More people will be available on a weekend day than during the week, but maybe you all have different ideas. We'd need to form committees for different tasks - mission statement, publicity, enrollment, government liaison, media contact, etc.
We start by approaching chain stores like Cabela's and Wholesale to set up info tables and sign-up sheets. People who have media contacts would be getting in touch with them to prep them for the event.
This is just the beginning of an idea. The date isn't set in stone. The mission isn't set. Please start helping the ball get rolling and submit your ideas. Once we have a clearer picture of what most people want to do, we can more specifically organize this event.
Post by: remington300mag on December 07, 2011, 09:13:00 AM
My feeling, if your not willing to fight for what you believe in, your not worth much! I can only hope that we stand together as one voice to make this happen!!
I'm with you Pianoman!!! 100%!!!
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
Absolutely PERFECT!!! Now, lets see how many of the 10,000 users will stand up and be a part of this! Get their friends and family involved. I'm really thinking this is going to finally be a way of getting our point out there that we are done being pushed around!
My feeling, if your not willing to fight for what you believe in, your not worth much! I can only hope that we stand together as one voice to make this happen!!
I'm with you Pianoman!!! 100%!!!
I believe we will stand together. Thanks for stepping right in as the first reply, Rem. I was hoping you would.
Post by: rtspring on December 07, 2011, 09:20:10 AM
Post by: asl20bball on December 07, 2011, 09:32:50 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:34:16 AM
Great idea. We need a clear and pricise message, not just another aimless protest. In my option if we approach this as anti-wolf position will not be be near as effective as if we approach this as presenting the facts and calling for better wolf management and a call to action immediately. Setting up info tables in advance at Wholesale sports, sportco, cabelas etc is a great idea! Maybe form some sort of committe in advance to plan and create literature/handouts. Maybe a concurrent even can take place in Spokane. Lets get the cattlemen on board to. April fools day though? haha? Lets do this thing!
I think the first thing to decide is what message we want to send. Come up with some mission statements. I'll do one, too.
Post by: gaddy on December 07, 2011, 09:36:06 AM
i believe the more info you can get out & people understand the problems sportsmen are faceing the more support you will get.
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 09:36:13 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:37:01 AM
im in. i think if your going to set up info tables you will need to include info about all the impacts wolves are going to have on the state. the hydatid disease & its ease of transmission, populations of game animals, basically everything, lets face it most people just arent aware & need to be educated. if they arent on this site or follow this topic all they get is the occasional artical in the paper.
i believe the more info you can get out & people understand the problems sportsmen are faceing the more support you will get.
So we'll need to do a wolf info sheet.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:37:44 AM
Tagged. I will try my hardest to be there but uncle sam isn't particularly happy when I skip a weekday.
If we do this on April Fool's Day, which would be so appropriate, that's a Sunday.
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 09:39:44 AM
Post by: 1morebuck on December 07, 2011, 09:40:56 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:42:42 AM
Start fundraising yesterday!!! Money will be pretty hard to come by if we don't start early.
Who has experience with this? For what will we need funds? For the things like tables at the stores. I was thinking volunteers. Maybe we could raise funds through Washington for Wildlife because they're already set up as a non-profit. I need some more ideas and direction, please.
Post by: bearmanric on December 07, 2011, 09:43:29 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:44:00 AM
Send me a "News Release" to Kellyr@masoncounty.com and I will publish this in my outdoor publication. It circulates 9,000 in three counties. That may generate some attention.
Thanks Kelly, will do. I think we need to do a little more work on a mission and settle on a date first. Great offer. Thank you.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:45:09 AM
I was thinking of a sit in protest in the entrance to the under ground parking lot. It's across from the Capitol. It would get attentsion if they couldnt get out to go home. I've been so bummed this week. I cant believe our Game department did us this way. The suffering our elk ,deer and moose herd's will suffer from the stress and being eating alive that is mest up. Rick
If and when this comes together, you'll have an outlet for your anger.
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 09:47:56 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 09:53:06 AM
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 09:54:24 AM
Post by: remington300mag on December 07, 2011, 09:54:32 AM
I was thinking of a sit in protest in the entrance to the under ground parking lot. It's across from the Capitol. It would get attentsion if they couldnt get out to go home. I've been so bummed this week. I cant believe our Game department did us this way. The suffering our elk ,deer and moose herd's will suffer from the stress and being eating alive that is mest up. Rick
The true thing is, it isn't the first time they have wronged us! It is just the latest slap to the face that is finally made sportsman reach the tipping point!
Our biggest hurdle is going to be getting this organized......That is why we need a clear cut day and time......I am holding strong that if our heritage means as much to us as we say it does.....people will make it happen!!! And not just a few.....but all!!!
Post by: gaddy on December 07, 2011, 09:56:52 AM
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 09:58:32 AM
i would think some industries would be willing to donate if they understood the potential risk to thier livelyhood in the future if this problem ends up reducing sporting oppertunities & the need for sporting goods, travel ect...
Now we're talkin ....
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:14:07 AM
Protest Mission Statement
To bring sportsmen and women together from all over WA to protest the irresponsible Wolf Program that the Wildlife Commission has pushed through. Also to tell the governor that we want a wildlife commission who represents the people who pay most of the bills and who have done the most for wildlife in this state, the hunters and fishers of WA.
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 10:15:20 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 10:20:55 AM
I would fully support a rally that was targetting the WDFW, it is the WDFW who insisted in all plan options 15 BP's. Even Wyoming one of the main introduction states is only going to manage for 10 BP's.
You need to reconsider your target here before I become involved.
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 10:23:17 AM
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 10:25:40 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:26:43 AM
You need to identify who the enemy really is before you fire your guns. :twocents:
That's why we're having the discussion, Bearpaw. Thanks for the good info.
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 10:28:12 AM
Actually I'm pretty sure the director is chosen by the commission. The problem is that they can only choose from the caniddates that apply, and I think they made about the best choice they could last time.
We need the director from WY, but why would he come to this state. :bash:
Post by: remington300mag on December 07, 2011, 10:28:25 AM
Best I can come up with......but I am no Shakespeare!!
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:29:22 AM
This doesn't sound bad pianoman, but we need to use the anti's language. Makes it harder to for them to fight us that way.
Propose, please. And, as Bearpaw suggested, replace "commission" with "WDFW".
Post by: remington300mag on December 07, 2011, 10:32:39 AM
Post by: Huntbear on December 07, 2011, 10:36:17 AM
Seems on the wolf issue though, they are like the pu$$y whipped husband with its tail between its legs.....
Of course they also seem to like to cater to the money crowd, not the average hunter..
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:38:47 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 07, 2011, 10:41:00 AM
Post by: Huntbear on December 07, 2011, 10:41:23 AM
Post by: mulehunter on December 07, 2011, 10:42:41 AM
Count me in
Post by: gaddy on December 07, 2011, 10:45:41 AM
Post by: rebal69972 on December 07, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 10:47:31 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:48:40 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 10:49:50 AM
The commission could have said, "We don't think 15 BPO's are enough, let's have 25 BP's."
I think you need to look at where this plan came from in the WDFW. We need to attack WDFW and insist they use up to date science that's coming out of ID/MT/WY the last couple years and ask them to quit using the disney science used for the sales pitch for introduction.
I don't solely blame the director yet, he is using info provided to him by the endangered species division. I think he may honestly believe there are only 30 wolves in Washington and that we need 15 BP's for wolves to survive. But if he is a responsible manager and he is shown that their disney science may be off base, then he should seek the facts and clean out the personnel who are misleading wolf management. Maybe I should be more critical of him but I think he is most likely relying on his suposed "wolf experts" who in reality are "defenders of wildlife" propagandists. :twocents:
I think we need to blame the WDFW directly as the primary reason for such a poor plan and we need to criticize the commission for not being more critical of the poor science being put forth by the WDFW and for not sending them back to the drawing board. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:50:26 AM
i didnt realize this was aimed at just the commission. i believe it should include the wdfw & the gov also & stated as so. they are all in the pool so lets throw water on the whole bunch.
This is only in the infancy stages. We haven't settled on a target, on a mission, on the committees we'll need, on how to raise the money necessary, or on who to bring in to help. Keep making specific suggestions.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 10:55:02 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 07, 2011, 10:56:52 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 10:58:47 AM
I guess I would ask first, do we try to get together regionally or??? Do we get volunteers as reps from each region to pow wow with others? Is this the place to start?
Good question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 11:02:53 AM
To bring sportsmen and women together from all over WA to protest the irresponsible and unethical programs that the Wildlife Commission has adopted. To inform the state government that we want a wildlife commission who represents the people who pay for our wildlife conservation, the hunters and fishers of WA.
To educate the people of this fine state of the uninformed decisions made that will slaughter the native plants and animals of washington. To eliminate the anti-wildlife mentality that is ruining our most precious resources.
I'm not good at coming up with stuff on my own like this. Much better at tweaking and analyzing.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 11:06:54 AM
I will do whatever I can and if that is a role that needs filling I will volunteer, won't promise that I am any good at it but will try.I guess I would ask first, do we try to get together regionally or??? Do we get volunteers as reps from each region to pow wow with others? Is this the place to start?
Good question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 11:09:38 AM
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:
Quote
Good question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 11:09:54 AM
Sorry Dale, you beat me to it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 11:11:56 AM
Maybe someone else has some insight on specifically who the enemy is?
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:QuoteGood question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
My intention is that this protest will be about the wolf issue specifically, and the disconnect of the WDFW from our state's sportsmen and women in general. Does anyone disagree with this statement?
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 11:15:58 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 11:19:20 AM
Quote
My intention is that this protest will be about the wolf issue specifically, and the disconnect of the WDFW from our state's sportsmen and women in general. Does anyone disagree with this statement?
I think that's a good route to go, keep it simple and direct.... :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 11:21:39 AM
Maybe someone else has some insight on specifically who the enemy is?
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:QuoteGood question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
The organization of this protest is to include anyone who wants to participate. If we use the WFW to organize, would everyone need to become a member of the WFW? Some may not want to join and yet would still want to participate in the protest.
Post by: buckfvr on December 07, 2011, 11:22:18 AM
Post by: Huntbear on December 07, 2011, 11:29:53 AM
Maybe someone else has some insight on specifically who the enemy is?
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:QuoteGood question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
The organization of this protest is to include anyone who wants to participate. If we use the WFW to organize, would everyone need to become a member of the WFW? Some may not want to join and yet would still want to participate in the protest.
Send a message to Killbilly.. he can answer that better than anyone.
Post by: Huntbear on December 07, 2011, 11:30:39 AM
QuoteMy intention is that this protest will be about the wolf issue specifically, and the disconnect of the WDFW from our state's sportsmen and women in general. Does anyone disagree with this statement?
I think that's a good route to go, keep it simple and direct.... :tup:
:yeah: :yeah: :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 11:32:33 AM
Protest Mission (only a submission)
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
Post by: Curly on December 07, 2011, 11:34:08 AM
Maybe someone else has some insight on specifically who the enemy is?
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:QuoteGood question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
My problem with the commission is that they approved the 4 pnt APR without any science, while ignoring the WDFW biologists. If they can ignore the bios in that case why can’t they choose to ignore the WDFW in the wolf case?
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 11:39:41 AM
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 11:41:19 AM
How about this Mission:
Protest Mission (only a submission)
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
I dig this one a lot more. More venom!
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 11:41:36 AM
Maybe someone else has some insight on specifically who the enemy is?
I think some people are unhappy with the commission because they approved the 4pt rule in two whitetail units, or because they did or didn't do something else. That was an issue that many of us, myself included, had supported.
My advice is this effort needs to be totally focussed on the wolf issue, something we all agree on. If we allow other issues to become involved it will cause us to argue amoungst ourselves and we'll be fewer in numbers and be far less effective. :twocents:QuoteGood question. I'd say that we can do most of the work by teleconference or Skype without travel. I propose that we get a volunteer from each of the WDFW Regions to act as regional coordinators - 6 total. Each of them would enlist help from their area. Let's start with that.
Please let me know by posting if you'll be the coordinator for your WDFW region 1-6.
WFW already has a members-only forum and there are members-only boards on this forum where you can organize. :dunno:
My problem with the commission is that they approved the 4 pnt APR without any science, while ignoring the WDFW biologists. If they can ignore the bios in that case why can’t they choose to ignore the WDFW in the wolf case?
So far, this protest is about the Wolf program as a catalyst, and the other issues which disconnect the WDFW from us as hunters/fishers. Although the 4 pnt rule would fall in there, I think our message here needs to be clearly about the wolves and the disconnect. When we start bringing in a slough of other specific issues, this will get muddled and we'll have confusion and in-fighting. We will address the lack of science-related decisions that the WDFW makes, mainly focusing on wolf recovery.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
here here :tup:How about this Mission:
Protest Mission (only a submission)
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
I dig this one a lot more. More venom!
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 11:46:19 AM
Quote
The organization of this protest is to include anyone who wants to participate. If we use the WFW to organize, would everyone need to become a member of the WFW? Some may not want to join and yet would still want to participate in the protest.
pianoman9701 you may be right, it might be better to not make it a wfw cause, in case some people don't want to join wfw...
curly, there is biology both ways on the 4pt rule, and some of us were in favor of the 4pt rule. I commend the commission for having the fortitude to try the rule in two units. This is why this issue needs to be focussed on wolves so we don't turn this into a 4pt argument and fall apart. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 12:01:03 PM
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 12:04:39 PM
To show the people of WA that WDFW irresponsibly ignored the historical and factual scientific data in our neighboring states that was made readily available to them when putting together Washington's Wolf Conservation and Management Plan, as well as remining WDFW that their performance agreement states the following: It is unacceptable to base priority management decision on outdated, unverifiable information or personal opinion.
My edit of the first part of the statement. I'm still mulling over the second part
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 12:10:23 PM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 12:13:17 PM
Piano, I just checked the link and it appears to be working: http://www.washingtonforwildlife.org/cgi-bin/oc/register.cgi
(the wolf issue was one of the reasons we started WFW)
Post by: KillBilly on December 07, 2011, 12:18:07 PM
Q:Would everyone have to be members to participate?
A:Currently Yes
Q: Is there a workaround
A: Yes - we could do it in the general public area anybody could see what we are doing.
Q: If you are serious, why not join?
A: WFW is a Wa.State recognized Organization and large numbers would mean more than an un organized group. And other Organized groups are more likely to join in and stand with us.
All of Hunt-Wa is encouraged to participate anyway. If they don't have anything to offer during the planning and Organization stage, then joining is a moot point. If they are wanting to be in on it all, then Joining is the way to do it. After it is over, I will take you off the roles if you want. It is free to join as long as you have had your distemper shots.
Let's hear your feedback and thoughts so far.
Post by: KillBilly on December 07, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
wraithen we are a voluntary effort and killbilly may be busy right now. I will ask him to check on your membership.
Piano, I just checked the link and it appears to be working: http://www.washingtonforwildlife.org/cgi-bin/oc/register.cgi
(the wolf issue was one of the reasons we started WFW)
What am I checking for?
Post by: Curly on December 07, 2011, 12:25:56 PM
#1. The pro-wolf loving, anti-hunting, PETA supporting, liberal minded wackos.
#2. The Governor
#3. WDFW
#4. The wildlife Commission
#1. - we have no control over. There is no reasoning with them, but if it weren't for them we wouldn't be in this mess.
#2. - The governor is out the door and she is not going to care about what we think, but I'm pissed at her because she is ultimately in charge of WDFW and the Commission.
#3. - WDFW we still have a little control over since we are financing them by way of license fees. They are constantly screwing us and lying to us..........they piss me off. There are a few good people left there, but mostly it seems they have been infiltrated with anti-hunters.
#4. - I thought the commission was supposed to be our ally. Seems they caved to all the support of the WDFW plan by the pro-wolf folks all across the country.
Post by: gaddy on December 07, 2011, 12:29:54 PM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 12:32:18 PM
I'm still trying to decide who to blame the most for the wolf plan. I may change my mind, but here is my list right now in order of who I blame the most:
#1. The pro-wolf loving, anti-hunting, PETA supporting, liberal minded wackos.
#2. The Governor
#3. WDFW
#4. The wildlife Commission
#1. - we have no control over. There is no reasoning with them, but if it weren't for them we wouldn't be in this mess.
#2. - The governor is out the door and she is not going to care about what we think, but I'm pissed at her because she is ultimately in charge of WDFW and the Commission.
#3. - WDFW we still have a little control over since we are financing them by way of license fees. They are constantly screwing us and lying to us..........they piss me off. There are a few good people left there, but mostly it seems they have been infiltrated with anti-hunters.
#4. - I thought the commission was supposed to be our ally. Seems they caved to all the support of the WDFW plan by the pro-wolf folks all across the country.
Curly, I agree with you on this, I'm not sure of the best path.... :dunno:
Post by: buckfvr on December 07, 2011, 12:33:49 PM
It is a matter of what best serves the political end game. :twocents::yeah:
Post by: Huntbear on December 07, 2011, 12:35:40 PM
On the other hand Bearpaw, if everyone on this thread signed up for WFW, then most of the organizing would be complete. How many of you guys would object to signing up for free with Washington for Wildlife, so we could use the existing organization to expedite this process? I think it's a really good idea. Thoughts? Objections? Bearpaw, is the "join" page fixed today?
Been a member for a long time.. I think by including WFW we will become more viable? believable? not sure the right word here..
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 12:36:42 PM
On the other hand Bearpaw, if everyone on this thread signed up for WFW, then most of the organizing would be complete. How many of you guys would object to signing up for free with Washington for Wildlife, so we could use the existing organization to expedite this process? I think it's a really good idea. Thoughts? Objections? Bearpaw, is the "join" page fixed today?
Been a member for a long time.. I think by including WFW we will become more viable? believable? not sure the right word here..
Legitimate?
Post by: jackmaster on December 07, 2011, 12:39:24 PM
Post by: predatorpro on December 07, 2011, 12:41:55 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 12:45:15 PM
I'm still trying to decide who to blame the most for the wolf plan. I may change my mind, but here is my list right now in order of who I blame the most:
#1. The pro-wolf loving, anti-hunting, PETA supporting, liberal minded wackos.
#2. The Governor
#3. WDFW
#4. The wildlife Commission
#1. - we have no control over. There is no reasoning with them, but if it weren't for them we wouldn't be in this mess.
#2. - The governor is out the door and she is not going to care about what we think, but I'm pissed at her because she is ultimately in charge of WDFW and the Commission.
#3. - WDFW we still have a little control over since we are financing them by way of license fees. They are constantly screwing us and lying to us..........they piss me off. There are a few good people left there, but mostly it seems they have been infiltrated with anti-hunters.
#4. - I thought the commission was supposed to be our ally. Seems they caved to all the support of the WDFW plan by the pro-wolf folks all across the country.
Curly, I agree with you on this, I'm not sure of the best path.... :dunno:
We keep this very simple and lay the blame at the feet of the organization who forwarded it - the WDFW. If we complicate this protest, we're going to start disagreeing on the thrust. Also, it's the turnout that makes a difference in our credibility. This can be a WFW event and, being it's an established organization, that will help with organizing and infrastructure. However, if we don't have thousands of people there making noise on the day we protest, there will be no teeth to our protest, WFW, NRA, or RMEF organized or not.
I do believe that we should use the WFW existing organization to throw this together. That way, we can contribute to the organization the money we need to pay for things like printing and any other unforeseen expenses, as well as having a regional leadership system already in place. I think we should do this and have everyone on this thread sign up if you haven't already.
Post by: KillBilly on December 07, 2011, 12:46:09 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 12:46:54 PM
i just joined wfw, and i will be more than happy to get in on this, i would like to see other issues addressed as well which i know others have brought up, hounds, baiting, and trapping, its a shame to lose parts of are heritage when it isnt necessary, all because we dont have the money to line political pockets, sportsman know what is best for are wildlife...
Those issues are being addressed in the WFW, but I think this protest needs to be about the wolf issue and the disconnect between the WDFW and the sportsmen of this state. We really need to keep the focus tight to avoid losing support and having in-fighting. My :twocents:
Post by: asl20bball on December 07, 2011, 12:50:09 PM
How about this Mission:
Protest Mission (only a submission)
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
Managing wolves=managing ungualtes. I think we're missing a HUGE point here...that being this: conservation is not just for the benefit of hunters and fishers but for anyone who enjoys wildlife. If we don't manage wolves effectively we don't manage ALL wildlife for ANYONE to enjoy...not just us.
Post by: asl20bball on December 07, 2011, 12:53:03 PM
Post by: jager on December 07, 2011, 12:55:43 PM
let me add to my comment above...it is important that we try to connect the person "in the middle" if you will with this issue. There is a huge population that is simply uneducated regarding the matter so we need to provide the common ground here.
Here is my :twocents: I think this bolded sentence should be stricken from the paragraph. I believe there are some who believed in this plan that are not "extremists". That would be akin to someone saying that because I like to hunt I'm a blood thirsty killer. This kind of language will fan the flames, and we need as many people on board here as we can get. Alienating is not the way to do that.
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
Question: Why would someone need to be a member of WFW to participate? Again, don't we want as many people as we can get. Why alienate?
I recently was part of a "mob" that showed up in Olympia for the legislative session last fall. it was only a hundred people...supporting our industry here in WA. We had a 3 pass vans drive over from Spokane as well as several carpools. There were also folks from the west side that came as well. They were shocked to see the size of our group! Many testified to no avail....
I really think we need the numbers and we should not exclude anyone that wants to peacefully demonstrate. We could get members from other organizations to participate as well this way. And as was stated we need to focus on only the wolf plan....for now
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:03:21 PM
let me add to my comment above...it is important that we try to connect the person "in the middle" if you will with this issue. There is a huge population that is simply uneducated regarding the matter so we need to provide the common ground here.
Here is my :twocents: I think this bolded sentence should be stricken from the paragraph. I believe there are some who believed in this plan that are not "extremists". That would be akin to someone saying that because I like to hunt I'm a blood thirsty killer. This kind of language will fan the flames, and we need as many people on board here as we can get. Alienating is not the way to do that.
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. That in favor of animal rights extremists, the WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
Question: Why would someone need to be a member of WFW to participate? Again, don't we want as many people as we can get. Why alienate?
I recently was part of a "mob" that showed up in Olympia for the legislative session last fall. it was only a hundred people...supporting our industry here in WA. We had a 3 pass vans drive over from Spokane as well as several carpools. There were also folks from the west side that came as well. They were shocked to see the size of our group! Many testified to no avail....
I really think we need the numbers and we should not exclude anyone that wants to peacefully demonstrate. We could get members from other organization to participate as well this way. And as was stated we need to focus on only the wolf plan....for now
Mission Edited:
To show the people of WA that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan, not based on science and the experience of other states who have previously adopted wolf recovery plans, and to tell our government the WDFW has become disconnected from the sportsmen and women of WA. The WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, and have participated in the animal recovery and conservation efforts that have made our wildlife flourish, the hunters and fishers of WA.
In answer to your question about who may attend - anyone, WFW member or not. However, it'll be a lot easier to organize if those of us who are willing to put this think together join the WFW. Regional groups are already set up, there's already a secretary and a treasurer. Also, for those who want to contribute to the effort, it'll be easier for them to do so as a member of the WFW. Then we can pay for expenses right our of the WFW account through the treasurer.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 01:14:51 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:18:39 PM
I will go out on a limb and suggest that if he is willing that Jager would be an excellent resource for organizational suggestions. He is a pretty smart guy. :twocents:
I'm up for anything.
Post by: sebek556 on December 07, 2011, 01:21:35 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:25:07 PM
i am all for this, just a idea though, there is a WDFW in spokane, colville and many many other areas, what about hitting all of them on the same day same time? I think as long as we could get groups of atleast 100 at each it would be a great effect covering the whole state to show that this is a state wide issue, not just a local. but then again large number at one place would be amazing as well. But I think we would be more news coverage to hit every WDFW.
My original thought was to protest the Governor, either at the state house during the week or at her residence on April Fools Day. If you guys think we'd make more of a splash spread out across the state, go for it. However, the news always thinks bigger is better. If we have 2,000 in front of the mansion on April 1st, it's going to make a very big noise around the whole state.
Also, someone suggested we get the cattelmen involved. I think that's a good idea. Anyone else? Who can get in touch with them, please?
Post by: asl20bball on December 07, 2011, 01:28:11 PM
Another observation... many people and the pro-wolf folks would simply suggest that we stop hunting in an effort to maintain deer/elk numbers. I think we should be prepared to address this issue too. Maybe in some sort of Q&A handout as to why hunting benefits wildlife & the overall ecosystem perhaps?
We could note that wolves prey mainly on the weak and young and if continued -w/out proactive wolf management- the cow/calf ratios will decrease which in the long term is destruction for the health and sustainability of the elk herds vs the fact hunters harvest animal types tailored for managment/conservation reasons to ensure cow/calf ratios are healthy.
Post by: Curly on December 07, 2011, 01:29:53 PM
I will join WFW later tonight.
Another observation... many people and the pro-wolf folks would simply suggest that we stop hunting in an effort to maintain deer/elk numbers. I think we should be prepared to address this issue too. Maybe in some sort of Q&A handout as to why hunting benefits wildlife & the overall ecosystem perhaps?
We could note that wolves prey mainly on the weak and young and if continued -w/out proactive wolf management- the cow/calf ratios will decrease which in the long term is destruction for the health and sustainability of the elk herds vs the fact hunters harvest animal types tailored for managment/conservation reasons to ensure cow/calf ratios are healthy.
The bolded part above is not really true. The pro-wolf folks want to believe that, but it isn't true.
Post by: gaddy on December 07, 2011, 01:30:28 PM
fact is without being a member of this forum i wouldent be aware of the severity of this issue & most i talk to dont have a clue.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:30:56 PM
I will join WFW later tonight.
Another observation... many people and the pro-wolf folks would simply suggest that we stop hunting in an effort to maintain deer/elk numbers. I think we should be prepared to address this issue too. Maybe in some sort of Q&A handout as to why hunting benefits wildlife & the overall ecosystem perhaps?
We could note that wolves prey mainly on the weak and young and if continued -w/out proactive wolf management- the cow/calf ratios will decrease which in the long term is destruction for the health and sustainability of the elk herds vs the fact hunters harvest animal types tailored for managment/conservation reasons to ensure cow/calf ratios are healthy.
Good suggestion. It has been suggested that when we're in the sporting goods stores with our tables that we have informational flyers about not only the protest, but wolf facts relating to our state's recovery plan. This would include a widely held theory that animal rights activists are using the wolves as a vehicle to stop hunting and ranching here in WA.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 01:33:21 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:34:24 PM
and on the subject of reaching the masses, are there any sportsmen shows comming up? maybe someone well studied & possesing some speaking skills could put on an educational seminar. as i mentioned earlier i think the more people are aware of the impacts of wolves in our state, not just hunters but hickers, campers & everyone that uses the outdoors, the better.
fact is without being a member of this forum i wouldent be aware of the severity of this issue & most i talk to dont have a clue.
I think this is a good idea if the purpose is to get more people to attend the protest. My opinion is that there is already a wolf committee in WFW and a wolf topics board on the Hunt WA forum. Also, our focus needs to remain tight on the protest or we'll wander. There are many websites and much information available out there on wolves to do with hunting. We need to focus here on our protest. My :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 01:35:35 PM
Quote
I think we're missing a HUGE point here...that being this: conservation is not just for the benefit of hunters and fishers but for anyone who enjoys wildlife. If we don't manage wolves effectively we don't manage ALL wildlife for ANYONE to enjoy...not just us.
Extremely good point... :tup:
Quote
Those issues are being addressed in the WFW, but I think this protest needs to be about the wolf issue and the disconnect between the WDFW and the sportsmen of this state. We really need to keep the focus tight to avoid losing support and having in-fighting.
I agree, I also think we need the livestock producers and private land owners on this and need to ask them to critique the langauge to get them involved. If we can get some tribes involved too, all the better. If we keep the main issue focussed on wolves, we might be able to bring many different people together. :twocents:
Some possible langauge edits:
"To show the people of Washington that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan which is lacking current science learned by the Rocky Mountain States who have adopted wolf recovery plans and are now experiencing the impacts of wolf overpopulation, to reveal how disconnected the WDFW has become from the sportsmen and women, livestock producers, and private landowners of WA. The WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, the people who have facilitated animal recovery and conservation efforts, and the people who's lands have helped our wildlife flourish."
Post by: CedarPants on December 07, 2011, 01:37:45 PM
QuoteI think we're missing a HUGE point here...that being this: conservation is not just for the benefit of hunters and fishers but for anyone who enjoys wildlife. If we don't manage wolves effectively we don't manage ALL wildlife for ANYONE to enjoy...not just us.
Extremely good point... :tup:QuoteThose issues are being addressed in the WFW, but I think this protest needs to be about the wolf issue and the disconnect between the WDFW and the sportsmen of this state. We really need to keep the focus tight to avoid losing support and having in-fighting.
I agree, I also think we need the livestock producers and private land owners on this and need to ask them to critique the langauge to get them involved. If we can get some tribes involved too, all the better. If we keep the main issue focussed on wolves, we might be able to bring many different people together. :twocents:
Some possible langauge edits:
"To show the people of Washington that the WDFW has adopted an irresponsible wolf recovery plan which is lacking current science learned by the Rocky Mountain States who have adopted wolf recovery plans and are now experiencing the impacts of wolf overpopulation, to reveal how disconnected the WDFW has become from the sportsmen and women, livestock producers, and private landowners of WA. The WDFW has forgotten the people who have paid the WDFW's bills through their license purchases, the people who have facilitated animal recovery and conservation efforts, and the people who's lands have helped our wildlife flourish."
Good edits :tup:
Post by: jager on December 07, 2011, 01:38:09 PM
I will go out on a limb and suggest that if he is willing that Jager would be an excellent resource for organizational suggestions. He is a pretty smart guy. :twocents:
Awwww shucks...thanks buddy.
I will do what I can...All ya gotta do is ask.
I'll gladly keep putting in my :twocents: :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:43:51 PM
Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Good edits, Dale. And yes Jager, we will need you on the committee for whatever we can get. Thank you.
I think those edits will entice much broader participation, it may still need a lot of work, we need to ask the cattlemen what they think and make them a part of this if possible. They have far more influence than we do. :twocents:
Jager, have you joined wfw?
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 01:53:18 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 01:55:43 PM
Good edits, Dale. And yes Jager, we will need you on the committee for whatever we can get. Thank you.
I think those edits will entice much broader participation, it may still need a lot of work, we need to ask the cattlemen what they think and make them a part of this if possible. They have far more influence than we do. :twocents:
Jager, have you joined wfw?
I'd like to see the protest mission statement stay simple. Once there, different groups and people will speak, but we should keep the original message simple, pointed, direct. I like your revisions. I wouldn't like to see it get any broader.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 07, 2011, 02:02:37 PM
OCCUPY WDFW WASHINGTON STATE
Post by: jager on December 07, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
Instead of setting up at 50 different sporting goods stores and announcing our intentions to protest, maybe we gather signatures instead. We would have to have something printed as far as guidelines on what to say or not say in regards to misinformation..or turning anyone off! Maybe this is something that happens after the protest :dunno:
We don't want to spread our resources too thin. We should focus. NO?
If we announce our intentions, do we not run the risk of having 3x as many pro wolfers there?
In regards to the date, I agree that there may be more people during a weekend, but who is on capitol hill on Sunday?
I know at our regional WDFW office. It is basically located in a business park....Crickets on sunday.
It could be a all-dayer...come before work at lunch after....
I think it would be best to notify all media at a predetermined time preceding the protest...if for nothing else, than to get our turn being heard, not the pro wolfers!
Just thinking out loud here.....
Anybody that can fit that much stuff in a 4.5ft bed pickup then add an elk on top of it and still make it in one trip has to be good at organizing :chuckle:
Don't short change me man, that's 5.5' :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yes I am a member of WFW...
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:08:59 PM
Another thought....
Instead of setting up at 50 different sporting goods stores and announcing our intentions to protest, maybe we gather signatures instead. We would have to have something printed as far as guidelines on what to say or not say in regards to misinformation..or turning anyone off! Maybe this is something that happens after the protest :dunno:
We don't want to spread our resources too thin. We should focus. NO?
If we announce our intentions, do we not run the risk of having 3x as many pro wolfers there?
In regards to the date, I agree that there may be more people during a weekend, but who is on capitol hill on Sunday?
I know at our regional WDFW office. It is basically located in a business park....Crickets on sunday.
It could be a all-dayer...come before work at lunch after....
I think it would be best to notify all media at a predetermined time preceding the protest...if for nothing else, than to get our turn being heard, not the pro wolfers!
Just thinking out loud here.....Anybody that can fit that much stuff in a 4.5ft bed pickup then add an elk on top of it and still make it in one trip has to be good at organizing :chuckle:
Don't short change me man, that's 5.5' :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yes I am a member of WFW...
I don't know, but I wouldn't think the pro-wolfers could get more than 100 people in one place, maybe 150. They're not a big group. They just have big money behind them. If we do this right, I'm thinking we'll have a couple thousand at least. To have that many, it'll be important to get the information out to the general hunting population somehow.
Post by: jackmaster on December 07, 2011, 02:33:18 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 07, 2011, 02:34:59 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:36:51 PM
If research and numbers are a question, where is Colockumelk? That guy is awesome with that stuff.
"Throughout the 1970s and ’80s, the Bitterroot Valley averaged roughly 40 to 60 calves per 100 cows and 30 per 100 in the 1990s. The 2009 and 2010 spring surveys revealed calf:cow ratios of only 14:100 and 16:100, respectively."
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2011/BitterrootElkStudy.htm
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:37:43 PM
Post by: Hi-Liter on December 07, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
But, to really be affective (cattlerancher association, rocky mtn elk etc.) will have to file decalatory relief action/lawsuit against the federal gov't in federal court to get their attention. Thats about the only way this would be possible and to get the wolf issue in front of the court and would get some attention.
Just look at the Heller case that was file in federal court, which the supreme ct. heard de novo and ruled in favor of the Heller which clarified the gun rights of individuals.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:42:20 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
As far as what we have to do is concerned, we have to start making noise and this protest is the way to go about it. Lawsuits can happen, and motions can be filed, but a grassroots effort that garners the attention of our population will make people sit up and take notice. When it's time to vote for governor next year, this issue will be important. The last election was very close. Something like this can change an election and allow us to put a governor in power who will make changes to the WDFW.
Post by: Hi-Liter on December 07, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
I was just suggesting that legal action should be looked into, it will cost money and time. But, in the end that is likely the only way to have the wolf issue/case resolved or at least monitored.
RMEF as I pointed may not be concerned as you pointed out on the woodland caribou, because this is a federal issue dealing with the states. However, it maybe what the states want (wolf intro./management) because they recieve federal funding.
It will be a tough battle to change the WDFW, but keep it going. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 02:58:57 PM
I have read some of the issues here. And there are some good points and concerns. And I commend Pianoman for starting the thread.
But, to really be affective (cattlerancher association, rocky mtn elk etc.) will have to file decalatory relief action/lawsuit against the federal gov't in federal court to get their attention. Thats about the only way this would be possible and to get the wolf issue in front of the court and would get some attention.
Just look at the Heller case that was file in federal court, which the supreme ct. heard de novo and ruled in favor of the Heller which clarified the gun rights of individuals.
That's not the point of this thread, all due respects Hi-Liter. We're organizing a protest, period. Other things may grow out of this eventually, but this is a bout a protest. We want to make a lot of noise very publicly about what has happened here.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 03:06:47 PM
Post by: firefighter4607 on December 07, 2011, 04:17:36 PM
Do we have anyone who owns a print shop who'd give us a break on flyers and/or posters?backwoods_boy is doing printing of shirts, stickers, and other things you should PM him and ask.
Also, someone suggested we get the cattelmen involved. I think that's a good idea. Anyone else? Who can get in touch with them, please?The vice president was just talking about the wolf issue in their news letter. He has talked to Phili Anderson and the Hunter's Heritage Council. He is very disappointed about the vote. Page 2 http://washingtoncattlemen.org/KetchPen/Decemberpg24%202011b.pdf (http://washingtoncattlemen.org/KetchPen/Decemberpg24%202011b.pdf)
There main Office is in Ellensburg. http://washingtoncattlemen.org/contactus.htm (http://washingtoncattlemen.org/contactus.htm)
I will help in any way possible just let me know by PM also I am alright part of WFW.
Post by: blackhorn on December 07, 2011, 05:39:02 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 05:53:31 PM
Maybe someone can educate me here. How have the anti's and pro wolfe types influenced the government so much? What are they doing specificaly? I understand us protesting, but what will it take on all fronts to get our voices heard? Do we have lobyists or what not influencing government? Or are we just alone out there paying license fees without a say in what the WDFW does with our money? Pardon my ignorance on the subject but would really like to know.
The antis have huge money behind them and take advantage of tax payer dollars to sue our own government. This is the HSUS and Defenders of Wildlife with massive budgets and an agenda to end hunting.
We don't have lobbyists, other than RMEF and NRA. The strength will be in a large turnout during an election year to let the politicians know what's important to a great many thousands of hunters in this state. The last election was decided by 130 votes. This is to be a scream that voters will hear. Gregoire is out next year and the new governor will have the power to re-shape the WDFW and commission. If enough of us are involved in this, people will notice. I also think this could make WFW and Hunt WA a more powerful force in hunting politics and policy.
Post by: Gringo31 on December 07, 2011, 06:04:20 PM
I know some folks on the Cattlemens Assoc and when we get a clearer plan, let me know what I can do to reach out to them.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 06:06:52 PM
I feel very strongly that this is EXACTLY what WFW should be used for. If nothing else the wolf committee. It puts a name behind the masses. It has other groups like Idaho for Wildlife that would be an asset as well. There is a lot of good discussion here but some of it may be better in a less public forum, yet, I understand it would be easy to infiltrate. One voice, one concern (at a time :chuckle:)
I know some folks on the Cattlemens Assoc and when we get a clearer plan, let me know what I can do to reach out to them.
Point about planning in the public forum taken. I'll certainly reach out to you, Gringo when we have things lining up. Thank you.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2011, 06:13:07 PM
http://www.washingtonforwildlife.org/cgi-bin/oc/register.cgi
Then tomorrow, go to the WFW homepage and look for the Wolf Protest committee on the left side of the page. Sign up and we'll get to work. Thanks!
Pman
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 06:14:55 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on December 07, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
Post by: wraithen on December 07, 2011, 06:30:50 PM
Post by: Jerbear on December 07, 2011, 10:39:58 PM
Another quick point. Had someone post that the anti hunters and wolf lovers stated that if we would just quit hunting, the problem would take care of its self. Yep. That sure has worked in Yellowstone.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 06:34:37 AM
The mission statement is just about done I think, but we can discuss that more as a committee.
If you'd sign up ASAP, we can get this ball rolling. I'll be on the road all day tomorrow and out of touch, but back on Saturday and Sunday. Thanks everyone for your enthusiasm. Let's make this a huge event.
Post by: CedarPants on December 08, 2011, 06:39:20 AM
Post by: CedarPants on December 08, 2011, 06:39:54 AM
Post by: blackdog on December 08, 2011, 06:50:53 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 08, 2011, 06:57:26 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
Good point, I doubt anyone realized that, when do you think would be better timing?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 08, 2011, 06:59:28 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 07:01:09 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
The 2 new commissioners are both sportsmen, so I don't see a big problem with them. As far as the protest is concerned, if you have a suggestion of how to put something like this together faster and will contribute your time, please join WFW and the group. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot of time and planning to put a large event like this together. Stating that "we're frikking doomed" really won't do much to help. There needs to be more. Thanks,
Pman
Post by: Woodchuck on December 08, 2011, 07:04:21 AM
Post by: blackdog on December 08, 2011, 07:06:19 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 08, 2011, 07:07:47 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 07:10:27 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
If you guys read some of my original posts, my intention was more to have a large demonstration of the Governor to attract attention to this issue in an attempt to make residents of this state take notice of 1. what the WDFW has done, and 2. that they have a choice of who to vote for in the fall for governor.
The last gubernatorial election was decided by 130 votes. The governor has power over the commission and ultimately by his/her appointment, over the WDFW leadership and policies. Unless you think that we need to push for certain legislation that will correct this situation, I don't see where it makes a difference when the legislature's in session. This would have to do more with the governor and with the stir we create with the voting public.
The other suggestion that has come up twice now is to have many smaller demonstrations around the state at either the WDFW offices, or other high profile locations on a certain date. And, there may be other options, as well.
As I've said before, the original mass demonstration idea is only my idea. Whatever we decide as a group will be what eventually happens. The first thing to do is join WFW and let me know you want in on the Wolf Protest Committee. Then we can hash the details out. Thanks,
Pman
Post by: bearpaw on December 08, 2011, 07:12:16 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
The 2 new commissioners are both sportsmen, so I don't see a big problem with them. As far as the protest is concerned, if you have a suggestion of how to put something like this together faster and will contribute your time, please join WFW and the group. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot of time and planning to put a large event like this together. Stating that "we're frikking doomed" really won't do much to help. There needs to be more. Thanks,
Pman
Pman, I think blackdog is exactly right, he knows what he's talking about, it will do us no good to protest after this CNW member is confirmed on the commission. You need to read the dirt Cedarpants dug up on Kuhne, then you will see the light, see posts #20, #27, #32: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,88257.15.html
We may be most effective to try and prevent his confirmation. :dunno:
Post by: blackdog on December 08, 2011, 07:18:09 AM
Post by: jackmaster on December 08, 2011, 07:19:16 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 07:21:57 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
The 2 new commissioners are both sportsmen, so I don't see a big problem with them. As far as the protest is concerned, if you have a suggestion of how to put something like this together faster and will contribute your time, please join WFW and the group. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot of time and planning to put a large event like this together. Stating that "we're frikking doomed" really won't do much to help. There needs to be more. Thanks,
Pman
Pman, I think blackdog is exactly right, he knows what he's talking about, it will do us no good to protest after this CNW member is confirmed on the commission. You need to read the dirt Cedarpants dug up on Kuhne, then you will see the light, see posts #20, #27, #32: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,88257.15.html
We may be most effective to try and prevent his confirmation. :dunno:
So, we're now talking about two different issues - derailing the confirmation of Jay Kehne, a member of Conservation NW that supports the Wolf Plan, and the demonstration. I'm not sure that they shouldn't be handled by two different groups.
Post by: CedarPants on December 08, 2011, 07:24:44 AM
It appears the plan is to show up in April after the Senate has confirmed these Commissioners and the legislature has gone home. We're frickin doomed......................
The 2 new commissioners are both sportsmen, so I don't see a big problem with them. As far as the protest is concerned, if you have a suggestion of how to put something like this together faster and will contribute your time, please join WFW and the group. Otherwise, it's going to take a lot of time and planning to put a large event like this together. Stating that "we're frikking doomed" really won't do much to help. There needs to be more. Thanks,
Pman
Pman, I think blackdog is exactly right, he knows what he's talking about, it will do us no good to protest after this CNW member is confirmed on the commission. You need to read the dirt Cedarpants dug up on Kuhne, then you will see the light, see posts #20, #27, #32: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,88257.15.html
We may be most effective to try and prevent his confirmation. :dunno:
So, we're now talking about two different issues - derailing the confirmation of Jay Kehne, a member of Conservation NW that supports the Wolf Plan, and the demonstration. I'm not sure that they shouldn't be handled by two different groups.
I think he was just pointing out that your "they are both sportsmen so I don't see a problem" comment wasn't really spot on.
I agree though, 2 separate topics. Both equally important
Post by: CedarPants on December 08, 2011, 07:27:01 AM
You know I am in as long as its not during Turkey season ... :yike: Seriously we need to get with it ..... :tup:
BOW no offense, but this is why we fall apart as a group. We always seem to want to take action about these issues, unless it interferes with our hunting schedule.
I will happily sacrifice my hunting time this turkey season if need be to make this happen.
Post by: blackdog on December 08, 2011, 07:28:20 AM
Post by: jackmaster on December 08, 2011, 07:44:41 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 07:56:51 AM
The official announcement from the WDFW about these appointments would lead us to believe that both of these guys are regular guys and hunters, and now, it is apparent to me that the WDFW and the governor are purposely deceiving us so as to have more pro-wolf commissioners confirmed with the blessing of the hunting community. This is not only inexcusable, but may well be illegal.
I propose that we look at a much earlier date for the demonstration to achieve this additional goal. Please give your thoughts. Also, please join WFW quickly so we can move this thread to a private forum and start planning without giving our opponents too much ammo. All of you who are so vocally in favor of demonstrating, put your words into action right away, please. Thanks,
Pman
Post by: CedarPants on December 08, 2011, 07:59:40 AM
After reading Bearpaw's post and Cedar's information from his thread to do with confirmation of Kehne to the commission, and after going to the Conservation NW's website to find out what a pro-wolf organization they are, it is my opinion that we should move up the date of the demonstration to sometime in February or early March and demonstrate the legislature to derail this confirmation and, as Blackdog's last post suggested, request from them the removal of other animal rights-inclined and wolf loving commissioners.
The official announcement from the WDFW about these appointments would lead us to believe that both of these guys are regular guys and hunters, and now, it is apparent to me that the WDFW and the governor are purposely deceiving us so as to have more pro-wolf commissioners confirmed with the blessing of the hunting community. This is not only inexcusable, but may well be illegal.
I propose that we look at a much earlier date for the demonstration to achieve this additional goal. Please give your thoughts. Also, please join WFW quickly so we can move this thread to a private forum and start planning without giving our opponents too much ammo. All of you who are so vocally in favor of demonstrating, put your words into action right away, please. Thanks,
Pman
Totally agree.
Post by: buckfvr on December 08, 2011, 08:38:44 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 08:42:07 AM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/default.aspx
Post by: bearpaw on December 08, 2011, 09:01:14 AM
There's no sense doing this if everyone is not in Olympia. Seems to me we want to do this just before any confirmations begin.
Write to your state legislators. Find them here:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/default.aspx
We need to press Representative Shoesler on this and try to get the whole Republican caucus to oppose Kehne's confirmation. We need to identify which Democrats (there are several who are sportsmen friendly) and press them to oppose Kehne's confirmation.
I think the NRA gives good grades to the following Democrats: Hobbs, Hatfield, Hargrove, and Sheldon. If we can get these democrats and the whole Republican caucus to oppose Kehne's confirmation, we may be able to prevent his confirmation.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 10:09:12 AM
Dear Senator Benton,
Please carefully consider voting against the appointment of Jay Kehne to our WDFW Wildlife Commission.The bulletin that the WDFW sent out yesterday about the appointees is deceptive and is intended to lull hunters into thinking that the WDFW has finally found people who support hunters and sportsmen across Washington state. Kehne does not. His views on animal rights are extreme and he will not represent the people who spend the money on licenses to pay the bills of the WDFW, our hunters and fishermen. He works for an organization which does NOT support hunting and responsible game Management, Conservation NW. This is not someone who should be allowed to write policy for Fish & Wildlife.
We hunters have responsibly conserved and made possible the recoveries of our wildlife since the early 1900s through our license dollars and our millions of volunteered hours of conservation work. No other groups have done anywhere near the amount of conservation work as hunters have, none. Our wildlife is successful and abundant almost completely due to hunters efforts. Accepting people who do not support hunting into the wildlife commission is a slap in the face to the people who've done the real work for our wildlife in our state.
The WDFW's wolf plan will do irreparable harm to our state's wildlife, especially the endangered woodland caribou, elk, and deer. We know this from the experiences of MT, WY, and ID. In adopting the new wolf plan, our WDFW has completely ignored the disastrous effects of over-introducing wolves in those states. Those states have less aggressive plans than the one our WDFW just adopted , much lower human population and population densities, and some of their herds are now down by 80%. Idaho isn't even coming close to culling the number of wolves it needs to stabilize their population and either has Montana. Their wolf reintroduction programs started 16 years ago. ID's revenues related to license purchases and hunting-related economy are down more than $20 million this year alone. Guide services and related business in MT are going out of business at an alarming rate and ranchers and taking huge losses. We need to learn from their mistakes and it appears the WDFW refuses to do so. This plan, if it stands, will harm wildlife populations, business (including our ranchers), and tourism in this state.
Senator Benton, this is not the time to jeopardize WDFW budget money from hunting licenses by turning the wildlife commission into an anti-hunting organization. Please vote against Kehne's appointment, replace other anti-hunters on the commission, and send a message to hunters across the state that you acknowledge their contributions and feel that the wildlife commission of the WDFW is not the place to forward a political, anti-hunting agenda. Thank you for your consideration of my request. I request the courtesy of a reply. Thank you.
Most Sincerely,
John W
Vancouver, WA
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 08, 2011, 10:19:11 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 10:21:48 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 08, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
Post by: asl20bball on December 08, 2011, 11:00:00 AM
After reading Bearpaw's post and Cedar's information from his thread to do with confirmation of Kehne to the commission, and after going to the Conservation NW's website to find out what a pro-wolf organization they are, it is my opinion that we should move up the date of the demonstration to sometime in February or early March and demonstrate the legislature to derail this confirmation and, as Blackdog's last post suggested, request from them the removal of other animal rights-inclined and wolf loving commissioners.
The official announcement from the WDFW about these appointments would lead us to believe that both of these guys are regular guys and hunters, and now, it is apparent to me that the WDFW and the governor are purposely deceiving us so as to have more pro-wolf commissioners confirmed with the blessing of the hunting community. This is not only inexcusable, but may well be illegal.
I propose that we look at a much earlier date for the demonstration to achieve this additional goal. Please give your thoughts. Also, please join WFW quickly so we can move this thread to a private forum and start planning without giving our opponents too much ammo. All of you who are so vocally in favor of demonstrating, put your words into action right away, please. Thanks,
Pman
Just a thought....The Commission meetings typically take place on Fri-Sat. Why not pick one of the Saturday dates. The 2012 dates are 3/9-10, 4/13-14, 6/1-2 (March is in Moses lake tho)
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 08, 2011, 11:03:22 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 11:05:38 AM
After reading Bearpaw's post and Cedar's information from his thread to do with confirmation of Kehne to the commission, and after going to the Conservation NW's website to find out what a pro-wolf organization they are, it is my opinion that we should move up the date of the demonstration to sometime in February or early March and demonstrate the legislature to derail this confirmation and, as Blackdog's last post suggested, request from them the removal of other animal rights-inclined and wolf loving commissioners.
The official announcement from the WDFW about these appointments would lead us to believe that both of these guys are regular guys and hunters, and now, it is apparent to me that the WDFW and the governor are purposely deceiving us so as to have more pro-wolf commissioners confirmed with the blessing of the hunting community. This is not only inexcusable, but may well be illegal.
I propose that we look at a much earlier date for the demonstration to achieve this additional goal. Please give your thoughts. Also, please join WFW quickly so we can move this thread to a private forum and start planning without giving our opponents too much ammo. All of you who are so vocally in favor of demonstrating, put your words into action right away, please. Thanks,
Pman
Just a thought....The Commission meetings typically take place on Fri-Sat. Why not pick one of the Saturday dates. The 2012 dates are 3/9-10, 4/13-14, 6/1-2 (March is in Moses lake tho)
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html
We're actually considering protesting the legislature to not only bring attention to the wolf program mistakes, but to keep the commission from further being loaded with anti-hunters/pro-wolfers. It may be earlier than those dates.
Post by: Gringo31 on December 08, 2011, 11:22:28 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 08, 2011, 11:42:17 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 11:46:52 AM
I like the letter but I think you need mass endorsements of GROUPS to pile on vs John Q. Public. Both are good, individuals and groups. I think every hunting/sporting association should be on board as well as mass signatures at every sporting goods store. I don't think it would be difficult to get hundreds of thousands of signatures in a few months if we could get the word out in a unified voice. :twocents:
I agree with much of what you say, Gringo. I think probably hundreds of thousands of signatures might be overstepping a bit by February or early March. I'm open to help or advice on getting these done. Thank you!
Post by: asl20bball on December 08, 2011, 01:16:42 PM
Do whatever you have the time to do. Write your own if you can or copy mine and sign your name. At the very least, they'll see a bunch of us writing and take note. Either will get attention.
Poly Sci 101 question here.... when I searched for the representatives in my area ( http://apps.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/ )I get different people for Legislative vs Congressional. Which group of folks does this apply to or both?
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 01:25:34 PM
Do whatever you have the time to do. Write your own if you can or copy mine and sign your name. At the very least, they'll see a bunch of us writing and take note. Either will get attention.
Poly Sci 101 question here.... when I searched for the representatives in my area ( http://apps.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/ )I get different people for Legislative vs Congressional. Which group of folks does this apply to or both?
Both. these will go into committees for discussion, I assume. Sometimes, they never get out of committee and the person is left in the position without confirmation. If enough people raise a ruckus with their reps, their reps will push for a vote to have them removed or go to their caucuses to band together before a vote. Let them all know how you feel. The more the better.
Post by: bearpaw on December 08, 2011, 01:56:06 PM
My letter to both my state representatives and senator.
Dear Senator Benton,
Please carefully consider voting against the appointment of Jay Kehne to our WDFW Wildlife Commission.The bulletin that the WDFW sent out yesterday about the appointees is deceptive and is intended to lull hunters into thinking that the WDFW has finally found people who support hunters and sportsmen across Washington state. Kehne does not. His views on animal rights are extreme and he will not represent the people who spend the money on licenses to pay the bills of the WDFW, our hunters and fishermen. He works for an organization which does NOT support hunting and responsible game Management, Conservation NW. This is not someone who should be allowed to write policy for Fish & Wildlife.
We hunters have responsibly conserved and made possible the recoveries of our wildlife since the early 1900s through our license dollars and our millions of volunteered hours of conservation work. No other groups have done anywhere near the amount of conservation work as hunters have, none. Our wildlife is successful and abundant almost completely due to hunters efforts. Accepting people who do not support hunting into the wildlife commission is a slap in the face to the people who've done the real work for our wildlife in our state.
The WDFW's wolf plan will do irreparable harm to our state's wildlife, especially the endangered woodland caribou, elk, and deer. We know this from the experiences of MT, WY, and ID. In adopting the new wolf plan, our WDFW has completely ignored the disastrous effects of over-introducing wolves in those states. Those states have less aggressive plans than the one our WDFW just adopted , much lower human population and population densities, and some of their herds are now down by 80%. Idaho isn't even coming close to culling the number of wolves it needs to stabilize their population and either has Montana. Their wolf reintroduction programs started 16 years ago. ID's revenues related to license purchases and hunting-related economy are down more than $20 million this year alone. Guide services and related business in MT are going out of business at an alarming rate and ranchers and taking huge losses. We need to learn from their mistakes and it appears the WDFW refuses to do so. This plan, if it stands, will harm wildlife populations, business (including our ranchers), and tourism in this state.
Senator Benton, this is not the time to jeopardize WDFW budget money from hunting licenses by turning the wildlife commission into an anti-hunting organization. Please vote against Kehne's appointment, replace other anti-hunters on the commission, and send a message to hunters across the state that you acknowledge their contributions and feel that the wildlife commission of the WDFW is not the place to forward a political, anti-hunting agenda. Thank you for your consideration of my request. I request the courtesy of a reply. Thank you.
Most Sincerely,
John W
Vancouver, WA
Great letter...... I will mention moose in my letter, otherwise it will be much like yours. :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: mulehunter on December 08, 2011, 02:02:57 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 02:04:12 PM
:tup: Awsome letter... :tup:
I know. I'm like Mark Twain, right? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on December 08, 2011, 02:07:46 PM
Post by: mulehunter on December 08, 2011, 02:18:44 PM
Post by: mulehunter on December 08, 2011, 03:38:05 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 03:51:37 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 08, 2011, 03:56:29 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 03:57:59 PM
I would love to volunteer on the commitee but I will be damned if I can find where :dunno:
Thank you Woodchuuck. Have you enrolled in WFW yet?
http://www.washingtonforwildlife.org/cgi-bin/oc/register.cgi
Post by: Woodchuck on December 08, 2011, 04:00:04 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 04:02:51 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 04:05:53 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 08, 2011, 04:18:03 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 04:28:01 PM
I am not on line on the weekends but feel free to call me
[/quote
Please message me with your number. Thanks!
Post by: Special T on December 08, 2011, 04:30:21 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 04:35:18 PM
Here is part of the problem i see with a protest, and why i didn't volunteer... This gov is on her way out, she could'nt care less what happens... I think if you wnat ot make a big difference we need to promote a new GOV with a R besides his name, and talk to our local represantives a dn let them know how we feel. :twocents:
I agree with that and am waiting for Rob to respond to the hunting questions we sent him from WFW, but nothing so far, not a peep. I've also made his campaign aware of this thread and would welcome his involvement. I don't expect a response from the other letter, but who knows? I'd like one of them to take a stand and say that they're in favor of what we're doing for the hunters in this state.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 04:37:24 PM
Post by: Special T on December 08, 2011, 04:57:41 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
Post by: Special T on December 08, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 08, 2011, 05:15:24 PM
Post by: fishinmike on December 08, 2011, 05:31:58 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on December 08, 2011, 07:07:57 PM
Quote
Maybe I am dumb, but I can't find nothing on that WFW forum.
because all the discussion is here..... :(
Post by: PB on December 09, 2011, 11:39:51 AM
I think Rob will keep a low profile on this kind of stuff before an election. I think the best we can hope for is to find someone with some experience about his knowledge/ positions... This upcoming election is going to be about $$$. How to get it, spend it, and save it. Everything else is on the side. If i were a republican in this state i would side step every issue except financial ones... Getting people back to work. After i was elected i might adress the issue but not beforehand... There are enough bunny huggers that might not like a pro hunter/fishermen. :twocents:
I agree with Special T. Rob is going to maintain a low profile on this issue.
We need to get him into office first. He will go in and clean house of most of the agency directors. In fact he may also replace certain members of the Commission as they are appointed by the Governor.
Post by: shorthair15 on December 09, 2011, 11:59:58 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 09, 2011, 12:26:52 PM
I think Rob will keep a low profile on this kind of stuff before an election. I think the best we can hope for is to find someone with some experience about his knowledge/ positions... This upcoming election is going to be about $$$. How to get it, spend it, and save it. Everything else is on the side. If i were a republican in this state i would side step every issue except financial ones... Getting people back to work. After i was elected i might adress the issue but not beforehand... There are enough bunny huggers that might not like a pro hunter/fishermen. :twocents:
I agree with Special T. Rob is going to maintain a low profile on this issue.
We need to get him into office first. He will go in and clean house of most of the agency directors. In fact he may also replace certain members of the Commission as they are appointed by the Governor.
He might be foolish to say he supports hunting in a state that has less than 10% hunters.... :dunno:
I heard a rumour that he at least shoots trap, that puts him ahead of the competiton in my book. :twocents:
Post by: KillBilly on December 09, 2011, 05:19:34 PM
Mission
To share with the citizens of Washington how and where the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has ignored science and scientific data. To share with them how our neighboring states are now suffering from an irresponsible wolf recovery plan. And to share with them how the Departments acceptance of this irresponsible and unmanageable Recovery Plan will likely have an additive effect on prey species in many areas resulting in further declines of prey species and will result in the ultimate decline of predators as a result. We want the conservationists, the Outdoorsmen, the Ranchers, the Farmers, the Cattlemen, the Hunters, as well as the viewers and listeners of this state to tell our government that the WDFW has become disconnected from the citizens of Washington, whom by the way were the original conservationists of this State. The Department of Fish and Wildlife has forgotten the people who have paid the Departments bills through their license and tag purchases, and have participated in the animal, fish, and conservation recovery efforts in the past and present and have made our wildlife flourish. These Citizens are the true Conservationists and Wildlife Managers of the State of Washington.
Post by: Special T on December 09, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
Post by: blackdog on December 09, 2011, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: fishinmike on December 09, 2011, 06:58:06 PM
Post by: fishinmike on December 09, 2011, 09:57:56 PM
Post by: KillBilly on December 10, 2011, 08:34:35 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on December 10, 2011, 09:11:37 PM
Post by: KillBilly on December 11, 2011, 09:34:44 AM
Killbilly,I agree with your last statement ,you never know until they are tested.besides that I agree with the guy for the most part. No way to agree on everything with any possible commission member.
And I forgot to mention that we do need Diversity on the Commission.
We do however have a much bigger fish to fry..
We need to demand that the Department DETAIL and SHARE their plan to Manage the Wolves. The details should include: Funding, Personell numbers, methods of trapping and collaring, methods of tracking, etc.
If they can't produce the above and more then they have no business claiming to have a Wolf Plan at all.
What are the numbers going to look like whhen they do come up with a half/ass plan. This is a monumental task they are facing and I'll bet they are sitting on their asses smiling smugly still.
Post by: CedarPants on December 11, 2011, 09:44:24 AM
Killbilly,I agree with your last statement ,you never know until they are tested.besides that I agree with the guy for the most part. No way to agree on everything with any possible commission member.
And I forgot to mention that we do need Diversity on the Commission. We do have a much bigger fish to fry..
We need to demand that the Department DETAIL and SHARE their plan to Manage the Wolves. The details should include: Funding, Personell numbers, methods of trapping and collaring, methods of tracking, etc.
If they can't produce the above and more then they have no business claiming to have a Wolf Plan at all.
What are the numbers going to look like whhen they do come up with a half/ass plan. This is a monumental task they are facing and I'll bet they are sitting on their asses smiling smugly still.
Completely agree with this statement. In fact, I've reached out to a couple lawyers asking if there is any legal ground we'd have to stand on with this. In my mind, we should be able to request this informaiton and WDFW should be required to provide it. I'm waiting to hear back
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 11, 2011, 10:28:58 AM
I'm not so sure I agree about the commission, but I'm open KB. Considering what Cedar has said and what we've known all along about funding and rancher compensation, the fact that the commission voted in a plan without it being fully thought out indicates to me that some of them are willing to side with the wolf extremists without logical justification to do so. I also feel that if a candidate is on the staff of an organization that believes the adopted plan is a wonderful thing, (which they state on the front page of their site as a victory), he's not going to be a voice of reason in this or other predator issues, or even be a strong supporter of hunting. The only exception to that I can see would be if he were to resign from that organization because of a difference of philosophy about the wolves.