Post by: JohnVH on December 21, 2011, 11:13:49 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on December 21, 2011, 11:49:20 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on December 21, 2011, 12:13:40 PM
Anyone have them? Like them? Use them? Always thought I needed one of them.
If you need something, then it is a responsibility. By not buying one, you are shirking your responsibility. I've decided I need a SP101 .357, and therefore its irresponsible for me not to get one.
To the gun store with us.
Post by: sled on December 21, 2011, 12:14:30 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 21, 2011, 12:25:34 PM
Post by: dannysdaddy on December 21, 2011, 12:45:38 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 21, 2011, 01:26:51 PM
Id like it to be fairly accurate, <moa. I think it would be awesome for a good for everything hunting rifle.
Post by: JohnVH on December 21, 2011, 01:27:09 PM
Anyone have them? Like them? Use them? Always thought I needed one of them.
If you need something, then it is a responsibility. By not buying one, you are shirking your responsibility. I've decided I need a SP101 .357, and therefore its irresponsible for me not to get one.
To the gun store with us.
:tup:
Post by: Helix on December 21, 2011, 01:47:34 PM
They work great and a fast follow up shot is a nice thing to have. Do make sure you know how to assemble the bolt/bolt carrier. Saw a guy who didn't know how to put the pins in his have several failures. That must have been pretty frustrating I'm not sure exactly what he did but I think he put the firing pin retainer in before the firing pin.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 21, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 21, 2011, 09:33:25 PM
Id love some info and tips on where to buy parts (uppers, lowers, etc)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 21, 2011, 09:39:09 PM
Post by: FALFire on December 22, 2011, 05:24:52 AM
Post by: wraithen on December 22, 2011, 08:06:08 AM
Post by: hillbilli on December 22, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
Post by: demontang on December 22, 2011, 09:32:06 AM
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
Size and weight drive me away from the AR10 when you can get an ar15 in rounds that are just as good or better then what is in the ar10 :twocents: I figure why pack around the extra weight when I dont have to cause an ar15 can be plenty have after a day of hunting. But everyone likes different things :chuckle:
What 'rounds' can the 15 have that are as good or better? I have an AR15 lower, I just want something deer legal
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 22, 2011, 09:41:15 AM
.450 bushmaster and .458 socom.
Post by: coop2424 on December 22, 2011, 10:39:55 AM
It really is up to what you want to do with the gun. I think you can setup a nice deer rifle in the ar15 and possibly a good brush gun for larger game if you were only going to take 200 yards or less (200yds is pushing it with the large ar15 calibers) Anything over 200 yards on larger game you would have to go to the ar10. :twocents:
Post by: wraithen on December 22, 2011, 10:44:08 AM
Post by: spookgus on December 22, 2011, 10:57:00 AM
AR-15 for deer, legal in Washington with decent ammo availability and no need for a long heavy barrel I would go 6.8spc. I bet you would be happy with a 6.8 upper from Bison Armory and it won't break the bank. The 6.8 is not as good as the AR10 cartridges but will easliy kill deer at moderate ranges. There is alot of info at www.68forums.comSize and weight drive me away from the AR10 when you can get an ar15 in rounds that are just as good or better then what is in the ar10 :twocents: I figure why pack around the extra weight when I dont have to cause an ar15 can be plenty have after a day of hunting. But everyone likes different things :chuckle:
What 'rounds' can the 15 have that are as good or better? I have an AR15 lower, I just want something deer legal
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 11:17:21 AM
Post by: coop2424 on December 22, 2011, 11:33:36 AM
thanks, Ill research a little more, I dont know anyone with a 6.8 anything, from the little Ive researched they seem like a really slow round ( 2500fps ish ), but Ill keep reading
6.5 Grendel and the 300 blackout are other options. I think if I was building an AR15 just for deer it would probably be the 6.5. Personally I am looking at getting a AR10 for bears and elk where a quick follow up is a big benefit. They are heavier but that just means I need to get in better shape. I also just like the rifles so really just getting it to have it. The reasoning above is for the wife!! :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 11:51:43 AM
6.8 spc and several short magnums or supershort magnums.
.450 bushmaster and .458 socom.
The 6.5 Grendel walks all over the above mentioned out to 600 yards, when it comes to taking game and proven accuracy and it's a conversion that only needs a bolt, barrel and magazine. With the acception of the 6.8 spc. The rest need considerable machine work to the upper receiver/ejection port. Also match grade Hornady 123gr A-max loads are available everywhere. Great for deer, chucks and yotes .$21.00 a box, all the 6.5 Grendel barrels I have shot , grouped them very well.
For several years I purchased Grendel ammo from the link bellow, I could never get a hand load to groups as tight as their 120gr Ballistic tip load. It took my awhile at the bench to get the right hand load combo. They have a large selection of Grendel ammo. While the 120-123gr Gendel load does not have the energy of a .308 at extended distances it does overtake the .308 168gr at 600 yards and beond less windrift and drop. My brother shot a Mulie with his Grendel/16" AA M4 carbine barrel and a 120 Ballistic tip at 493 yards, killed it clean(Double lung) through and through, we never recovered the bullet.
http://www.precisionfirearms.com/29.html
I have had people argue that it wasnt enough gun for that distance, but the same people snivel about my ultra magnums. Some people just like to run their yaps. If I bullet puts a deer right down and passes completely through the animal it 493 yards , its a waste of time to argue that the cartridge didn't perform and at that distance still has the same energy as sticking a 45 ACP with a 230gr bullet against the deers ribs at point blank and pulling the trigger.
This is the Grendel carbine that took the deer, built with a 16" Alexander Arms M4 Carbine barrel.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0268-1.jpg&hash=038f173099a717281f7fc7f35d482d272887940c)
This is the last Grendel I built, I used a 18" stainless Alexander Arms match barrel. Had it turned down and lightened up, threaded 5/8-24 for a suppressor and shortened to 17". Scary accurate with Factory Hornady 123 A-max match loads.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto2-16.jpg&hash=2447cdf9557a7592a3c7f9c52daaecdd7e811323)
This is my Grendels best 300 yards groups shot last fall with Hornady match 123gr .
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-47.jpg&hash=0b79f533372e8a6b390e688a9a88364ba669c22d)
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 22, 2011, 12:56:37 PM
Post by: FC on December 22, 2011, 01:16:06 PM
That's a pretty good group hammer. You might be able to tighten it up a bit if you move your scope forward. Remember nose touching the charging handle for best accuracy. :tup:
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 01:45:24 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 22, 2011, 01:55:47 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 03:33:53 PM
The Grendel has very little advantage over the 6.8 SPCII out of a 16" barrel. This guy knows the 6.8 very well... www.ar15performance.com
Hahaha and he's also making a truck load selling them. They were designed entirely for two different purposes. Comparing them is redundant, it's been hashe out. Over and over, the Grendel serves the short, mid and long range soft target applications. While the 6.8 serves the short and a slight step into the mid, then it's all over but the effects of gravity and the laughing from the Grendel section. So is the game of outer ballistics.
Bring your 6.8 title and we will go rounds out to 600 yards for pink slips. The 6.8 SPC was designed for whacking Tango's in caves. It can't hold with a Grendel out to 600 let alone a 1000 yards. Your comparing apples to oranges. I tried the 6.8 SPC and its a dog compared to the Gredel. Wouldn't mind if you took me up on my offer. I could sell that 6.8 to some chump to fund another 24" Grendel upper.
Post by: h20hunter on December 22, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on December 22, 2011, 04:34:30 PM
He (Mike Milli at DTech), also builds a couple .30 calibers for AR-15's that look very promising. I spoke to him over the phone last year about his new "6mm DTI". It looks like that will be my next upper. He is a one man operation, so his quality is top notch. He will also take time out of his busy day to answer stupid questions from guys like me. I have to give him a lot of credit for his level of patience.
Also, Olympic arms has a 300 OSSM that isn't quite going to perform like a 308 Win., but it's pretty close, and actually surpasses the old 300 Savage, which has always been a good deer getter. They also have a new AR-15 lower with a longer mag well that allows the use of a 22-250 out of an AR-15. I'm going to get one for my 25 WSSM so I can seat longer/heavier bullets out farther and stuff more powder behind them with the longer magazine. Regular AR mags and calibers work in this new lower as well. I don't see a down-side to that, other than I don't have one (yet)!
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 04:39:16 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on December 22, 2011, 05:09:30 PM
Hope you will let us know how it works out when you get it done! I always like to see projects that others are building. I show them to my wife so she doesn't think I'm the only one that just can't be satisfied with what I have.
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Post by: h20hunter on December 22, 2011, 05:29:04 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 05:32:03 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 05:36:22 PM
lol, you guys can sword fight later, first lets build an ar here. :IBCOOL:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: h20hunter on December 22, 2011, 05:40:16 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 22, 2011, 05:47:56 PM
Post by: coop2424 on December 22, 2011, 05:53:57 PM
I'm building a .450 bushmaster right now. I can't wait to kill a bear with it.
I think that may be my next upper for my AR if i can find a good deal on one. Couple of weeks ago cabelas had them in their bargain cave for $520 but of course i didnt pull the trigger. :bash:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 05:58:18 PM
I'm building a .450 bushmaster right now. I can't wait to kill a bear with it.
I think that may be my next upper for my AR if i can find a good deal on one. Couple of weeks ago cabelas had them in their bargain cave for $520 but of course i didnt pull the trigger. :bash:
That's a smoking deal.
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 22, 2011, 05:59:22 PM
:yeah: If I had known that I would be $520 poorer right now.I'm building a .450 bushmaster right now. I can't wait to kill a bear with it.
I think that may be my next upper for my AR if i can find a good deal on one. Couple of weeks ago cabelas had them in their bargain cave for $520 but of course i didnt pull the trigger. :bash:
That's a smoking deal.
Post by: h20hunter on December 22, 2011, 05:59:45 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 06:17:42 PM
For bear you are really under gunned if you go any less than the .50 beoeolf (spelling?).
The .450 Bushmaster would flat turn Boo Boo into a rug in a hurry and do it further out and a whole lot flatter.
Post by: grundy53 on December 22, 2011, 06:19:17 PM
For bear you are really under gunned if you go any less than the .50 beoeolf (spelling?).lol, it was between the .450 bushmaster and the .50 Beowulf. Ammo is more readily available for the .450. Even though I reload that was my deciding factor.
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 06:52:31 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
Ive read of people shooting bears with the 6.8, anything will kill anything, the shooter just has to know how to place a shot
Heck, you can do a bear with a 22-250 or a 220 Swift. using a 60gr Partition for that matter.
Post by: h20hunter on December 22, 2011, 08:02:11 PM
Post by: FALFire on December 22, 2011, 08:10:06 PM
Though the 6.8SPC is a pretty decent little round, I've built several, gave one away and still have one in the safe. They do okay out to 300 yards or so, then they begin to loose faith with the wind and end up all over the place. Yes they can get to 600 yards, I know this because I have a 600 yard range in my back yard, but it's still flat falls short of the 6.5 bullet way out there. There have been lots of chambering changes involved to try to make the 6.8 a really great round, so far little has helped and still, it falls short of the 6.5 Grendel or aka, 6.5LBC which are basically the same with slight neck diameters being the only real difference between these two rounds and both will fire either ammo very well. The changes were due to licensing agreements not due to necessary changes to make one perform better.
Where the 6.5 G or LBC really shines is 400 yards and beyond, it flat leaves the 6.8 in the dust and mostly due to bullet weight and design. The 6.8 cannot launch a 130 grain bullet very fast as it takes up way too much case for powder. The 85 grain bullets do well in the velocity range but fall short for long range stuff. The 6.5 can send a 139gr. bullet out there very accurately at long distances and you can load down to 95's for anything up to small deer and makes for a great coyote round.
The 6.8 was originally developed for the combat troops and performs admirably in short barreled M4's where as the Grendel will do exceptionally well using 18 - 26" barrels with amazing accuracy out to 600 yards and beyond.
I would refrain from jumping into a 6.8 too quickly, do some research and make your decision based on facts.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 08:20:54 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 08:25:33 PM
Any of you heard of a 300 AAC Blackout?
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 22, 2011, 08:33:35 PM
fal, I have a 7mm for long range stuff, the ar would be for <300 yd deer and probably coyotes. Although if money was no object Id go 6.5, but that upper cost 3x what the 6.8 does. If I could find a super deal on a 6.5 Ill buy one.
Any of you heard of a 300 AAC Blackout?
Just read about it real quick. Not too impressed, 30-30 performance almost exactly the same as the 7.62x39. The only up side I see is being able to use a standard bolt, but you still need a different upper for that 30 cal round. Personally if I need a seperate upper to shoot a particular round, then I don't mind having a bolt specific to that upper. 6.8, 6.5, .450, .30 ossm all sound pretty good depending on what you want to do.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 08:48:00 PM
fal, I have a 7mm for long range stuff, the ar would be for <300 yd deer and probably coyotes. Although if money was no object Id go 6.5, but that upper cost 3x what the 6.8 does. If I could find a super deal on a 6.5 Ill buy one.
Any of you heard of a 300 AAC Blackout?
A guy can throw a 6.5 Grendel together way cheap, both those 6.5 Grendel uppers I posted earlier were built from used barrels we purchase off forums such as Snipershide.com and 24hourcampfire.com. You can pick up a upper receiver for a 120.00 and rob the bolt, charginging handle and bolt carrier group out of any other AR upper you have. You can purchase a 6.5 Grendel barrel used for 200.00 to 400.00and most often than not they are sold with the Grendel bolt.
You just have to change the barrel out on a AR you already own, switch the bolt and and stuff in a Grendel mag (12.00) , 30 min swap out and it's GO TIME!
Factory Hornady match ammo is 21.00 a box and very accurate, great way to get brass for reloading. You get a cheap accurate first firing and then the brass to reload. I started off using AA brass for reloading at 92.00 a 100 but after shooting the Hornady match, I get almost 100 rounds for that 92.00 loaded and the brass after its fired for reloading. It's a win, win.
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 09:06:11 PM
Post by: FALFire on December 22, 2011, 09:24:12 PM
Check out this link below, I think you will like what you see. However, you will still need a bolt but you get a free upper with the purchase of a barrel. The other thing is, even for under 300 yards the 6.5 gives up nothing to the 6.8SPC. You still get way better bullets than any of the 270 caliber offerings and continue to have the long range ability. I have been using the 6.8 for about 6 years now and it seldom gets passage from the safe, I also have 6x45, 243WSSM, 300 Fireball, 223's and 308's. The only one I have not built yet is the Grendel but it's on my hit list for sure. I have just been rekindling my love for the bolt guns and building Savages as of late. I will be re-barreling my Rem. 700 223 SPS Tactical into something much more enjoyable in the near future also. Plus I just purchased a new Tikka T3 22-250 and I have been letting the air out of a few coyotes here lately, it's my passion.
http://www.surplusammo.com/blackhole-weaponry-ar-15-18-mid-length-stainless-steel-6-5-grendel-1-9-poly-barrel/
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 09:38:33 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 09:57:26 PM
now were talking, where is a good place to get a bolt? What else do I need to complete the upper? Im new to black guns
A bolt will run you around 70.00 , they are hard to find by themselves. Here is a good barrel with the bolt for a fairly good price and I do like the 8 twist for 6.5's. It's great for the heavies and really puts a spin on the 95gr V-Max's.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/586354/ar-stoner-barrel-and-bolt-ar-15-65-grendel-medium-contour-1-in-8-twist-18-stainless-steel
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 22, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-56.jpg&hash=9cf5dc29e2a648892508c924f353c8c311804e93)
Post by: JohnVH on December 22, 2011, 10:35:07 PM
Post by: FALFire on December 23, 2011, 07:04:26 AM
Here is a bolt from MidwayUSA for the Grendel. It's just a 7.62x39 bolt face, nothing too special.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/798650/olympic-bolt-assembly-ar-15-762x39mm-russian-steel-matte
Post by: demontang on December 23, 2011, 07:47:42 AM
The .243, 25wssm and 300ossm along with the .338-358wssm all perform just as well as the cal's you can get in a AR10 and with Oly making a new lower that has a longer mag well you can ramp up the wssm more which in a lighter package is better performance and better field manners to me. :twocents:
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 23, 2011, 08:15:29 AM
The Grendel has very little advantage over the 6.8 SPCII out of a 16" barrel. This guy knows the 6.8 very well... www.ar15performance.com
Bring your 6.8 title and we will go rounds out to 600 yards for pink slips. The 6.8 SPC was designed for whacking Tango's in caves. It can't hold with a Grendel out to 600 let alone a 1000 yards. Your comparing apples to oranges. I tried the 6.8 SPC and its a dog compared to the Gredel. Wouldn't mind if you took me up on my offer. I could sell that 6.8 to some chump to fund another 24" Grendel upper.
I never said I had a 6.8, my point was that you need a longer barrel than 16" to get the grendel to work as advertised. Out of a carbine there is little advantage, because the grendel falls off pretty quickly too. If you don't mind lugging around a 24" grendel then you should step up to the 308 platform. :twocents:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 23, 2011, 09:02:03 AM
The Grendel has very little advantage over the 6.8 SPCII out of a 16" barrel. This guy knows the 6.8 very well... www.ar15performance.com
Bring your 6.8 title and we will go rounds out to 600 yards for pink slips. The 6.8 SPC was designed for whacking Tango's in caves. It can't hold with a Grendel out to 600 let alone a 1000 yards. Your comparing apples to oranges. I tried the 6.8 SPC and its a dog compared to the Gredel. Wouldn't mind if you took me up on my offer. I could sell that 6.8 to some chump to fund another 24" Grendel upper.
I never said I had a 6.8, my point was that you need a longer barrel than 16" to get the grendel to work as advertised. Out of a carbine there is little advantage, because the grendel falls off pretty quickly too. If you don't mind lugging around a 24" grendel then you should step up to the 308 platform. :twocents:
Barrel length for barrel length the Grendel still has a big ege and is still the upper performer, bullet weight and BC carries the lack of barrel length to a point. I'm not slamming the 6.8, unless comparing it to the Grendel.( Two completely different creatures) Guys have been using them back east and in Texas with great success on hogs, that is with the 6.8 SPC SPEC II cchanbers though, the correct twist form the beginning would have saved the 6.8 crowd allot of headaches.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 23, 2011, 09:38:37 AM
http://www.valkyrietactical.com/
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0441.jpg&hash=b72248a5c87dee40291c25e70555ffa2f559cce0)
Also a nice twist when it comes to custom coatings, I have a hanguard with them right now. So I can't speak for the performance of the finish yet but they have built a solid reputation in a short period of time for a quality product.
CRC Hydrographics
http://crchydro.smugmug.com/Portfolio/Firearms-Gallery/16055891_G4bb6#1205024967_btLG2
Post by: JohnVH on December 23, 2011, 10:34:39 AM
Post by: demontang on December 23, 2011, 11:25:21 AM
Post by: JohnVH on December 23, 2011, 11:31:19 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 23, 2011, 12:12:08 PM
scratch the post, aparently model 1 sales is not good quality
Mod1's are hit or miss, this is a Mod1 stainless 16" upper I put together last spring. Purchased the barrel used from a Deputy Sherrif in Oregon, already had 200 rounds or so through it. I put 1500-1700 on it and traded it of. It was still shooting like this when I traded it. Not bad for a 85.00 used barrel. As you can see bellow , I ran several different loads. The first group pictured has been my 9 twist go to AR load for years, it has shot well in all my 9 twist and has smoked 200+ Rockchucks easily.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0872.jpg&hash=c5b0778be6065812fd73d27e2d8441ca7f1a790d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-57.jpg&hash=c630ea2c129c8cf08dc58faa2dab42db92f7d929)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0762.jpg&hash=0106a560a424f413392cd3b45d12556be839bee4)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0764.jpg&hash=b23d316f07456ed922c84ce5d67c2114fed6bf4d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0763.jpg&hash=5bd2674c89616febcc38a965bf8d7a4a29e8c405)
In this picture , I can't explain the flyer. The trigger broke perfect, my hold was good, everything felt right. I blamed it on mixed brass loaded on a progressive. Hehehe :chuckle:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_3668.jpg&hash=085a0765560aebe410f30d271cb2b69edf442776)
Post by: JohnVH on December 23, 2011, 01:56:31 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 23, 2011, 02:15:44 PM
I wish I knew if Id get a decent one or not, have you heard of J&T? AA? Im half tempted to get the model 1 and chance it, can always put a better barrel on later if it isnt sub moa, right?
(AA) Is Alexander Arms, the original name sake owner of the trade marked name (6.5 Grendel) by Bill Alexander.In all reality the cartridge has been being shot for years by wildcatters and bench rest shooters. So in all reality many people feel he took credit for a already existing cartridge, hence the disputes and cartridges such as the 264 LBC-AR. Bill might have had a better shot at his master plan if he would have taken a course in buisness 101 and not tried the strong arm tactics that the board and bill have applied . It's pretty much in the tank for them.Heck even Satern Barrels had enough of their greed and royalties, they stopped making the best damn 6.5 Grendel barrels on the planet this last year.
Both the Grendels I posted pictures of earlier in the thread are wearing AA barrels.The reason we purchased them used is due to the fact we ordered new barrels through AA, with a promised delivery date of three months out. That turned into two years and we dumped the orders.Word on the street was, they were selling barrels but not taking care of buisness on their manufacturers end and the barrel builder dumped them.
Post by: demontang on December 23, 2011, 02:41:16 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 23, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
They use ershaw barrels and I plan on taking a chance and seeing what I get for that price. I've seen good and bad barrels from all the ar guns. Oly has been the best none custom I've shot so far. But I have shot near as much as some people.
My Grendel barrels extension is marked "ERS" on it's end. It's a Shaw blank but I don't know who did the contouring and extension installation, it's stamped 6.5 Grendel Alexander Arms.
Post by: emac on December 23, 2011, 04:57:33 PM
thanks, Ill research a little more, I dont know anyone with a 6.8 anything, from the little Ive researched they seem like a really slow round ( 2500fps ish ), but Ill keep reading
I have a 6.8 rifle and I had a 6.8 pistol custom made. I started out with a bison armory 18" barell on a stag left handed upper worked great and loved it. Shot a deer at 220 yards one shot no problem. Then I decided to have the 18" barell cut down to 7.5" barell to make a 6.8 pistol (talk about a fun loud toy). I decided to put a bison 20" back on the rifle. Shot my deer the next year at 175. two shots. I have shot numerous yotes with it. In the picture of the guns they are the top two.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx366%2Fmccubus%2FDeer1015-1.jpg&hash=96b7f04c82479ff389924c983eb2f92e9110a1f3)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx366%2Fmccubus%2Fguns021.jpg&hash=e37051e27b015d59e877e9ee4fe6dbd6a1a87689)
Post by: JohnVH on December 23, 2011, 05:02:33 PM
I definately am going 6.5 now, just have to figure out the specifics and what not.
This setup is a little enticing for me
Post by: emac on December 24, 2011, 05:55:29 AM
thats pretty awesome emac!
I definately am going 6.5 now, just have to figure out the specifics and what not.
This setup is a little enticing for me
I have been looking at one of those also. I just don't think anybody makes left handed bolt carriers for them that i can find. When I shoot right handed ar they don't bother me at all but the lefties are so much nicer for me.
Post by: JohnVH on December 24, 2011, 08:45:15 AM
Im looking seriously at an Alexander Arms grendel upper 16" More than I wanted to spend really, but feedback is great.
Post by: JohnVH on December 27, 2011, 08:58:51 AM
searching other options now...
Looks like Ill probably purchase the J&T 16" upper assy with the heavier barrel. Internet search is great feedback, accurate.
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 12:23:11 PM
:tup:
Post by: FALFire on December 28, 2011, 12:41:30 PM
Deal scored on an AA 16" SS upper!
:tup:
Tell us more!! Please :tup:
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 01:49:26 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-xXBjSj3%2F0%2FM%2Fi-xXBjSj3-M.jpg&hash=6d094da44593ebfdf443f11d7aaf3611bb55fd41)
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 28, 2011, 02:11:17 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2011, 04:17:23 PM
Thanks! I should see the upper tomorrow, not sure when the lower build parts or mag and ammo will arrive, either way, by next weekend we should be sighting it in hopefully. I just have to figure out how to build a lower now.
Brownels has a nice step by step video series that is very helpful you might want to checkout. Its free on there site. Youtube also will have some stuff.
Post by: FALFire on December 28, 2011, 04:30:17 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/226782_.html
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 05:36:03 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2011, 06:45:46 PM
Thank you guys!
Great score! To start off, get yourself some Factory Hornady 123gr A-Max loads. See how it shoots. It is increadably accurate out of the Grendels I have shot. I have found it for as low as 18.00 a box. Hard to beat that price loaded and then you will have brass for reloading.
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 06:50:56 PM
Yep, got two boxes coming already! I think I got it for around 19/box. I will be reloading for it in the near future, so Ill work up a pet load that touches itself hopefully!
Post by: wraithen on December 28, 2011, 07:00:28 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 07:02:37 PM
Post by: wraithen on December 28, 2011, 07:06:57 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 07:10:48 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 28, 2011, 08:02:34 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 08:55:18 PM
I received my upper yesterday and picked up my stripped lower today. Put it all together tonight. I'm just waiting for my stock to arrive and it will be done. Can't wait.
whatcha building? pics?
Post by: grundy53 on December 28, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Post by: JohnVH on December 28, 2011, 09:41:29 PM
Post by: coop2424 on December 28, 2011, 09:59:34 PM
Awesome looking rifle make sure to give a report when you get a chance to shoot it. I have heard some good thing with the .450 and plan on picking one up in the near future. What stock you putting on it?
Post by: grundy53 on December 28, 2011, 10:04:02 PM
Post by: coop2424 on December 28, 2011, 10:11:30 PM
Will do. I'm putting on an A2 stock. Might put on a skeleton stock later to save weight. I haven't decided yet.
Is the upper pretty heavy compared to a standard 16" 223? Where did you pick the upper at or did you put it together?
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2011, 05:23:48 AM
It doesn't feel much different. I got it from www.ammunitiontogo.com/ . They are out of Texas. They were about the only ones that had one in stock.Will do. I'm putting on an A2 stock. Might put on a skeleton stock later to save weight. I haven't decided yet.
Is the upper pretty heavy compared to a standard 16" 223? Where did you pick the upper at or did you put it together?
Post by: JohnVH on December 30, 2011, 11:16:48 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 03, 2012, 04:41:38 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 03, 2012, 05:17:34 PM
any of you guys on ar15.com?
I am.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 03, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 03, 2012, 06:20:18 PM
New bear gun ?yes
Post by: JohnVH on January 03, 2012, 09:57:23 PM
any of you guys on ar15.com?
I am.
Im wondering if you can do me a favor and register me? You have to have a non generic email (no hotmail, yahoo, etc....) and I dont have one! :'( They said you can change it after..
Post by: grundy53 on January 04, 2012, 05:20:24 AM
any of you guys on ar15.com?
I am.
Im wondering if you can do me a favor and register me? You have to have a non generic email (no hotmail, yahoo, etc....) and I dont have one! :'( They said you can change it after..
Sure just pm me the info you would like to use like your username and what not.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2012, 05:38:48 AM
New bear gun ?yes
Bring it over next year and we'll go bear hunting. JKEEN and I saw 3 the very first day I took him out for deer muzzy. I saw 11 bears last year. I want to see the damage it does. I've been wanting a 450 or 458 SOCOM for bear.
Post by: grundy53 on January 04, 2012, 05:40:24 AM
New bear gun ?yes
Bring it over next year and we'll go bear hunting. JKEEN and I saw 3 the very first day I took him out for deer muzzy. I saw 11 bears last year. I want to see the damage it does. I've been wanting a 450 or 458 SOCOM for bear.
Sounds good. Thanks for the invite.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2012, 05:43:45 AM
New bear gun ?yes
Bring it over next year and we'll go bear hunting. JKEEN and I saw 3 the very first day I took him out for deer muzzy. I saw 11 bears last year. I want to see the damage it does. I've been wanting a 450 or 458 SOCOM for bear.
Sounds good. Thanks for the invite.
No problem. Just let me know.
Post by: JohnVH on January 04, 2012, 09:24:33 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 06, 2012, 11:48:06 AM
Upper
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-Zphc2gK%2F0%2FL%2Fi-Zphc2gK-L.jpg&hash=c0d461b976bdc51238e3c90b8ef283095d07776a)
Bling, cute little things!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-rpL9DxR%2F0%2FL%2Fi-rpL9DxR-L.jpg&hash=ed7b826ea66f9bb4ebc109c75eb7c88cfcfa46da)
Post by: JohnVH on January 06, 2012, 05:07:22 PM
Assembly was too easy, dangit, but Im addicted, I just want to build them and get another.
Bunch of parts! First time! Only took an hour to figure it out. Trigger is rediculously STIFFFFFFFF, must fix that.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-sBJFHXt%2F0%2FL%2Fi-sBJFHXt-L.jpg&hash=b93a24dcd8abbf99d7434e4b48ec29a497161e66)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-k3q6j8J%2F0%2FL%2Fi-k3q6j8J-L.jpg&hash=79e05ebda338e45c763ea964f5f50c5bd2edea4b)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-mvq68Cm%2F0%2FL%2Fi-mvq68Cm-L.jpg&hash=30e684494a500abe98d81ee87e080b55d0164314)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-w9QQXfb%2F0%2FL%2Fi-w9QQXfb-L.jpg&hash=0436c208618e927f23959866419fafab5ec905f1)
.223, 3 grendels, 7mm mag
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-WkMdhcv%2F0%2FL%2Fi-WkMdhcv-L.jpg&hash=35d1afc37e47de684f3513ef2442056005b86216)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-tvqjfDR%2F0%2FL%2Fi-tvqjfDR-L.jpg&hash=27fa4e411cb1670332ba021fdca20cd53a6d113f)
Chambered two rounds through it, really scratches the cases and bullet, is that normal?
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-mmz9RDC%2F0%2FL%2Fi-mmz9RDC-L.jpg&hash=71d742af3513ff4a8119fe41f7ad0b16b5e0ac4a)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-PLrxGPv%2F0%2FL%2Fi-PLrxGPv-L.jpg&hash=6b3d0e6e315571d4ef29d589aae7e65f7816bc32)
New one on top, no marks...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-HwjfqGh%2F0%2FL%2Fi-HwjfqGh-L.jpg&hash=03fc0e9d63e5363b440df3600a53e5614e04c186)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 06, 2012, 05:58:16 PM
Just got the last of my stuff for my mega build ordered last night. I am working on ordering the stuff for my 2nd one. Going to build the lower and then wait to decide if I want a 458 socom/6.8 or 6.5. I might just build one to sell it, I don't need anymore :chuckle:
Post by: coop2424 on January 06, 2012, 06:27:47 PM
Try this for your trigger. It is free and on mine it made a world of difference tell I get a new trigger.
http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm
Post by: NaturalSelection on January 06, 2012, 06:29:12 PM
I had a 5.56 built out of Rainier Arms. Great guys and the best customer service ever. I had the gun built for coyotes and but a little higher end parts in it. So far its super accurate but I haven't put good optics on it yet.
I want to build a big on myself. Keep this thread thumpin'
Post by: JohnVH on January 06, 2012, 06:39:48 PM
Post by: coop2424 on January 06, 2012, 06:45:53 PM
Thanks coop, I actually had that printed off here, but being my first build just wanted to see that it would work first before I went to modifying it, haha. I just dont know what to get for compound, any idea's?
I used a polish pad on my dremel and a fine paint polish for cars like a rubbing compound i think. It was a couple hears ago so dont remeber exactly what it was. I know you do not want one that is real abrasive and i think it only took a couple minutes to do. A jewelers compound would work also. Doing the spring mod made to most difference with the creep and pull weight. Just make sure not to loose the spring in the sear when taking it apart.
Post by: FC on January 06, 2012, 07:18:41 PM
Save your money and buy a Rock River ARMS NM, Timney or Geissele trigger. Just shoot it as is for a couple of weeks or whatever it takes you to buy a good trigger, you will crap your pants at how much easier to shoot it will be after you swap it!
Post by: coop2424 on January 06, 2012, 07:55:56 PM
Cutting up your springs to lighten trigger pull and help you achieve greater accuracy isn't a very good way to go. When you weaken (cut) your hammer spring you slow it's speed (increase lock time), for accuracy you want the hammer traveling as fast as possible. You can of course also end up getting light strikes from a mod like the one suggested here.
Save your money and buy a Rock River ARMS NM, Timney or Geissele trigger. Just shoot it as is for a couple of weeks or whatever it takes you to buy a good trigger, you will crap your pants at how much easier to shoot it will be after you swap it!
Completely agree to a point. I have way better accuracy with mine since cutting the springs. I have shot a lot of rounds through it and have not had an issue to this point. I know sometime I may have issues but then I will just put the other springs in that I have as a backup. To each their own I just don't want to spend the cash when this does what I need at this point. If I use the gun more often or have issues I will theb possibly update the trigger. :twocents:
Post by: CastleRocker on January 06, 2012, 08:14:18 PM
If you cut off the back of the hammer and/or get the yellow JP spring from someplace like Brownells, that will leave you with a crisp 3 1/2 lb trigger, with pretty fast lock time. Check out Bill Springfield for a trigger as well. I have had a couple of his, I think they were about $50 but it's been a few years ago. His feel MUCH better than the NM trigger that Rock River sells. That being said, the Rock River National Match is a real good trigger. It's just not a great one. Bill does each one by hand one at a time. I'm pretty sure Rock River doesn't. I've done several myself that turned out great. (I've also done a couple that I had to replace). Practice makes perfect. Try it yourself! Just be careful when you hit the 3-4lb mark, it doesn't take much more and you are down into ounces. In fact, I seem to recall now that was why I bought my first one from Bill Springfield!
I've got no experience with Geiselle, Jewell, Timney, or the American Gold (my dream trigger group), or any other trigger that costs me more than two days wages in an AR. I tend to get a trigger to where I can shoot it well, and then spend money on reloading components so I can go shooting.
I've got two Jewells and a Timney in bolt guns that are very nice and crisp. I'm probably missing the boat by not having one in an AR.
Post by: FC on January 06, 2012, 08:44:09 PM
Completely agree to a point.
No offense but from what I've seen, John is putting together a pretty nice rifle. Throwing a ghetto trigger in it with a slower lock time just seems like a waste of time :twocents:
I've done a LOT of the 15 minute trigger jobs.
I've done a LOT of things that I regret too! :chuckle:
The only problem I've had is they tend to not have enough snap to set off some of the harder military or sometimes even Remington primers.
Strong evidence of the slowed lock time you get from cutting that spring, you won't likely have any other problems per se but you will absolutely not have as accurate of a rifle as you could have with a proper trigger with a full power hammer spring.
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 06, 2012, 08:52:01 PM
Post by: coop2424 on January 06, 2012, 09:00:41 PM
Post by: FC on January 06, 2012, 09:10:31 PM
Could you use an Aluminum hammer in an AR? Just thinking less mass to accelerate would equal faster lock time.
I don't think you can get aluminum hard enough to last more than a very few shots. If you look at all the better hammers they all have a fairly thin post leading to an enlarged head with as much of their weight as possible concentrating the force of the strike on the firing pin contact surface. Even with the enlarged head they are still quite light weight.
@coop, I well understand not having the dough to get a rifle setup how you like right away but I've also seen a lot of guys do just as you have and never replace the trigger since they haven't experienced a good one.
fwiw, if you can do your own AR trigger that is anything close to a RRA NM trigger than you should be doing them for a living :twocents:
The Geissele and Timney are both awesome triggers although I have doubts about the Timney lasting due to it being single stage.
Post by: coop2424 on January 06, 2012, 09:16:20 PM
Could you use an Aluminum hammer in an AR? Just thinking less mass to accelerate would equal faster lock time.
Just did a search on this and I got this link. Decent info.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91541
Post by: JohnVH on January 06, 2012, 10:52:00 PM
Just shoot it as is for a couple of weeks or whatever it takes you to buy a good trigger, you will crap your pants at how much easier to shoot it will be after you swap it!
I cant wait to crap my pants! :IBCOOL:
Post by: FC on January 07, 2012, 12:40:13 AM
Just shoot it as is for a couple of weeks or whatever it takes you to buy a good trigger, you will crap your pants at how much easier to shoot it will be after you swap it!
I cant wait to crap my pants! :IBCOOL:
You will probably cut your groups in size by half.
Post by: JohnVH on January 07, 2012, 07:39:53 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 10:23:16 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 05:09:50 PM
Post by: FC on January 08, 2012, 05:16:32 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 05:20:09 PM
Post by: FC on January 08, 2012, 05:26:08 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 05:30:23 PM
Post by: FC on January 08, 2012, 05:34:11 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 05:39:19 PM
Post by: wraithen on January 08, 2012, 06:21:52 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 08, 2012, 06:29:02 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 13, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Post by: wraithen on January 13, 2012, 04:41:03 PM
Post by: FC on January 13, 2012, 09:09:25 PM
I thought AR-15 implied the overall design, and has nothing to do with cartridge. Am I misinformed? :dunno:
You are not misinformed.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 18, 2012, 01:17:26 PM
6.8 spc and several short magnums or supershort magnums.
.450 bushmaster and .458 socom.
The 6.5 Grendel walks all over the above mentioned out to 600 yards, when it comes to taking game and proven accuracy and it's a conversion that only needs a bolt, barrel and magazine.
Nice ARs.
I've been won me over on the 6.5 G versus 6.8 SPC, all around. But for close-in brush hunting for larger game where long shots are less than 100 yards, comparing the 6.5 to the big bore ARs is comparing apples and oranges.
Any recommendations on 6.5 G loads for a 16" barrel?
Post by: JohnVH on January 18, 2012, 05:25:45 PM
Alot of info : http://www.65grendel.com/
Post by: JohnVH on January 27, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
Cant wait to take some game with it, and get a turrett scope on it!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-nxCmh9r%2F0%2FL%2Fi-nxCmh9r-L.jpg&hash=77f7ec93438ba50d1037d5139116936176933126)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-sXgcWG7%2F0%2FL%2Fi-sXgcWG7-L.jpg&hash=e2408e045e928018016dcca3c49acbd5b68bd45a)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-vw2QKTb%2F0%2FL%2Fi-vw2QKTb-L.jpg&hash=9f107e8c2a9909a6cf19add348eba938d323c0e8)
Factory 123Gr hornady 100yds
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-8MpZ2K8%2F0%2FL%2Fi-8MpZ2K8-L.jpg&hash=ae51c6a1b69db0cb6d56bd6ff9f1a25a2e6d64c4)
5 shot group of some reloads the seller of the upper sent me 100yds
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-jLjzX2p%2F0%2FL%2Fi-jLjzX2p-L.jpg&hash=db11bd54cfd0724ed91f1ad46a7740767e4257af)
VIDEO
feature=youtu.be&hd=1
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 27, 2012, 06:12:58 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 27, 2012, 06:15:56 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 27, 2012, 06:21:35 PM
Post by: JohnVH on January 27, 2012, 06:25:14 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 27, 2012, 06:27:18 PM
Post by: KillBilly on January 27, 2012, 07:16:42 PM