Post by: Bob33 on January 01, 2012, 11:52:55 AM
Post by: Lincoln4 on January 01, 2012, 11:53:51 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 01, 2012, 11:56:04 AM
Hope the ranger survives OK.
Post by: SkookumHntr on January 01, 2012, 11:58:17 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 01, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
Post by: fillthefreezer on January 01, 2012, 12:02:24 PM
Very sorry to hear, does anyone know where Longmire Ranger Station is at?its close to some of the rec areas like paradise and sunrise
Hope the ranger survives OK.
Post by: Lincoln4 on January 01, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
Post by: Swatson on January 01, 2012, 12:11:09 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 01, 2012, 12:16:36 PM
Post by: Lincoln4 on January 01, 2012, 12:19:02 PM
Post by: krism83 on January 01, 2012, 12:31:04 PM
Bearpaw, Longmire is up out of Elbe. The shooting occurred just out of Elbe off Skate Creek Rd. Actually not in the park.
Our Cabin is right off of Skate Creek Rd. and we hunt that area all the time. Very sorry to hear about the ranger.
Post by: Bob33 on January 01, 2012, 12:40:48 PM
Officials closed the park after the shooting Sunday, and asked people to stay out of the area while they search for a man carrying a long rifle.
The News Tribune reports the shooting happened just before 11 a.m. near the Longmire Ranger Station.
Sheriff's Department spokesman Ed Troyer says the Washington State Patrol and the Pierce County Sheriff's office are working together on this investigation.
Other details were not immediately available.
Post by: Lincoln4 on January 01, 2012, 12:47:44 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on January 01, 2012, 12:48:19 PM
Post by: ANDERWAGON on January 01, 2012, 12:48:58 PM
Any word on the Rangers condition?
Post by: Lincoln4 on January 01, 2012, 12:53:34 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 01, 2012, 12:55:02 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 01, 2012, 01:04:45 PM
Post by: jyerxa on January 01, 2012, 01:05:36 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 01, 2012, 01:20:29 PM
Post by: denali on January 01, 2012, 01:31:11 PM
will pray for family, friends and cowrkers
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 01, 2012, 01:32:12 PM
Post by: krism83 on January 01, 2012, 01:33:31 PM
This taken off of the King5 page: "MOUNT RAINIER, Wash. – A U.S. Forest Service ranger at Mount Rainier National Park has been shot and killed, and the gunman is at large.
The shooting occurred at 10:11. near Longmire Ranger Station. The condition of the ranger is not known."
How has she been shot and killed, but the condition of the ranger is not known??
Post by: bigtex on January 01, 2012, 01:35:21 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 01, 2012, 01:43:40 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 01, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
That is very sad :'(
will pray for family, friends and cowrkers
:yeah: very sorry to hear
Post by: bigtex on January 01, 2012, 01:48:57 PM
Wonder what this guy was doing in the park ? she had to of ran his plates to see he was a felon .... and she should of called for back up ...This really suz ! These rangers need to be paired up this day and age ...to many whack jobs out there.. sorry to hear this type sheet ...Sad !backup is not usually readily available to natural resource le officers such as wdfw or nps. To say she should have called for back up after finding out she died is rather disturbing
Post by: bloodhound on January 01, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 01, 2012, 01:53:30 PM
They said that the suspect had been stopped at 1011 by another ranger and fled in his vehicle. The deceased Ranger was monitoring a roadblock and stopped him shortly before 1100. She was shot and the suspect then fled on foot.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2012, 01:55:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 01, 2012, 01:58:57 PM
Post by: FC on January 01, 2012, 02:01:00 PM
Post by: KillBilly on January 01, 2012, 02:04:40 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 01, 2012, 02:05:20 PM
Here's the Longmire webcam link.
http://www.nps.gov/mora/photosmultimedia/longmire-webcam.htm
Looks like about 12-14 LE vehicles.
Post by: Arteman on January 01, 2012, 02:17:29 PM
Post by: Snapshot on January 01, 2012, 02:22:55 PM
Post by: SniperDanWA on January 01, 2012, 02:33:34 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 01, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Post by: TheHunt on January 01, 2012, 02:39:35 PM
Another source of information
Post by: jyerxa on January 01, 2012, 02:45:25 PM
Prayers for the rangers family that is for sure. :'(
Post by: gotshot on January 01, 2012, 02:55:02 PM
Post by: TheHunt on January 01, 2012, 02:55:43 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on January 01, 2012, 02:56:17 PM
Wonder what this guy was doing in the park ? she had to of ran his plates to see he was a felon .... and she should of called for back up ...This really suz ! These rangers need to be paired up this day and age ...to many whack jobs out there.. sorry to hear this type sheet ...Sad !backup is not usually readily available to natural resource le officers such as wdfw or nps. To say she should have called for back up after finding out she died is rather disturbing
In some LEAs it is policy to have at least two officers and/or air support before initiating a felony stop. That said it may not be known if there were exigent circumstances to expedite the encounter.
R.I.P. .... Prayers for the family.
Post by: GEARHEAD on January 01, 2012, 03:33:03 PM
Post by: DeerHarvester on January 01, 2012, 03:38:26 PM
Post by: BobW on January 01, 2012, 03:44:26 PM
They were very professional during what must be a very difficult time for them. I hear he is still at large. I hope they get him, but not before he has to spend a colder than hell night in the woods.
Post by: gotshot on January 01, 2012, 03:46:29 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 01, 2012, 03:49:16 PM
Post by: bearmanric on January 01, 2012, 04:02:55 PM
Post by: Klyne3 on January 01, 2012, 04:04:58 PM
Post by: christopheri on January 01, 2012, 04:12:12 PM
Post by: yelp on January 01, 2012, 04:13:28 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 01, 2012, 04:21:08 PM
Hope they find this *censored*.
Post by: passing-thru on January 01, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
Post by: Cap.Silver on January 01, 2012, 04:26:13 PM
Post by: PolarBear on January 01, 2012, 04:28:29 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on January 01, 2012, 04:31:36 PM
Release the hounds... :bash:
We finally found a use for wolves.
Post by: HntnFsh on January 01, 2012, 04:45:04 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on January 01, 2012, 04:48:00 PM
I think they should call in an artillery team. Maybe that will show the next pos that tried to do this they mean business. I only hope that if he is caught alive they let the husband have some time before they take him away.
Condolences to the family
Post by: yelp on January 01, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 01, 2012, 04:50:16 PM
my condolences to the family
Post by: TheHunt on January 01, 2012, 04:55:47 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on January 01, 2012, 05:05:43 PM
Post by: FC on January 01, 2012, 05:14:32 PM
Can you image the call on the radio when he was at work at a different part of the park. Just a nightmare.
This would be the worst part! Hopefully they at least got a chance to say goodbye. :'(
Post by: swanny on January 01, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
My buddy and I were planning to do a climb out in the Tatoosh today. We were on the road to Reflection Lake, right above the Narada Falls parking lot and heard about 10 shots fired. They sounded funny and the first thought I had was avalanche control, but they don't do that there. Not 5 seconds after the shots were fired an NPS suv went flying up the road towards Paradise. We continued on with our hike
When we came down to the Narada Falls parking lot to leave, we were asked for ID and our license plate number by Pierce County Sheriff. They told us to get packed up and head down the mountain, and to not pick up any hitch hikers. 3 other check points later we were out of the park.
The cavalry is up there, Longmire had at least 50 vehicles up there and we saw plenty of other heavily armored vehicles heading up the road with officers in full gear.
It was really sad to hear what actually happened when I got home. I can't believe some people can act this way.
My condolences go out to the family and all that knew her.
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 05:33:27 PM
Post by: swanny on January 01, 2012, 05:36:05 PM
Anyone in homes near by had better be prepared now that its dark. I can't believe they let it go this long, dogs should have been released hours ago to keep it from going into the night, that guy could turn up anywhere now.
I'm not sure he's going to get down the mountain anytime soon. The shooting was up high and there is a lot of fresh snow, making it hard to walk. Even with snowshoes we were sinking 6-8" with every step, I'd be surprised to see him come out alive. Although, the news did report that his vehicle had "survival gear" in it.
Post by: gotshot on January 01, 2012, 05:36:57 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
I'm not sure he's going to get down the mountain anytime soon. The shooting was up high and there is a lot of fresh snow, making it hard to walk. Even with snowshoes we were sinking 6-8" with every step, I'd be surprised to see him come out alive. Although, the news did report that his vehicle had "survival gear" in it.
Exactly to my point. If you were being chased in there would you expel all your energy increasing your elevation in the snow or would you be heading low to get out of it?
Post by: bloodhound on January 01, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 05:50:13 PM
i would be heading low to get out of it so you couldnt see my tracks! he'll be leaving bread crumbs till he gets to the snow level.
Exactly!!! We need Tommy Lee Jones.
feature=related
Post by: rasbo on January 01, 2012, 06:02:30 PM
Post by: swanny on January 01, 2012, 06:04:38 PM
Post by: bloodhound on January 01, 2012, 06:04:42 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 06:04:55 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 01, 2012, 06:22:24 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 01, 2012, 06:24:02 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 01, 2012, 06:24:49 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 01, 2012, 06:36:53 PM
All rangers carry at all times.Only the Rangers who are LEO's can and do carry. The average ranger at Camp Muir is likely only packing a radio and sunscreen
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 06:37:04 PM
Read the comments the anti's are already posting up, complete morons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/mount-rainer-national-par_n_1178709.html
Post by: KFhunter on January 01, 2012, 06:38:03 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 01, 2012, 06:40:19 PM
here we go guys, the person who wrote this column just had to bring up the fact that guns were now legal to carry in the park, like this clown would have stopped at the gate and turned around if they werent. :bash:
Read the comments the anti's are already posting up, complete morons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/mount-rainer-national-par_n_1178709.html
Lets not go there with this thread please
Post by: runamuk on January 01, 2012, 06:44:36 PM
society has made it so we cant not go there.....many will use the guns for their agenda and many more will buy into it because of this incident ....if we want to continue to be armed this fight and this issue is going to always be there no matter how tragic the situation... this is where we are as a society and its not gonna change any time soon...here we go guys, the person who wrote this column just had to bring up the fact that guns were now legal to carry in the park, like this clown would have stopped at the gate and turned around if they werent. :bash:
Read the comments the anti's are already posting up, complete morons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/mount-rainer-national-par_n_1178709.html
Lets not go there with this thread please
My thoughts are with those who are affected by this tragic event....
Post by: 92xj on January 01, 2012, 06:47:19 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on January 01, 2012, 06:57:05 PM
Really bad thoughts go out to the shooter. I hope the worst for him. A slow painful death sounds appropriate though.
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 06:58:30 PM
Hopefully they find him alive and drag him out of the woods down a long gravel road.....with a 30' chain.
Not me, why spend money on this POS for litigation, only to see him go to prison where we continue to pay until he dies or gets back out. I hope a sniper puts a well placed shot right in the 10 ring, a $1.00 180gr. Ballistic tip and its over.
Post by: 92xj on January 01, 2012, 06:59:43 PM
Hopefully they find him alive and drag him out of the woods down a long gravel road.....with a 30' chain.
Not me, why spend money on this POS for litigation, only to see him go to prison where we continue to pay until he dies or gets back out. I hope a sniper puts a well placed shot right in the 10 ring, a $1.00 180gr. Ballistic tip and its over.
must have missed the 30' chain part and dragging him.
I agree, he does not need to live any longer.
Post by: BurleyDog on January 01, 2012, 07:01:19 PM
Thats right I honestly hope whoever did this dies. :bash: :bash:
Prayers for the family
Post by: bloodhound on January 01, 2012, 07:04:55 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2012, 07:12:37 PM
must have missed the 30' chain part and dragging him.
I saw it, only problem is we would end up awarding his family a $30 million settlement for using excesive force.
Post by: Huntbear on January 01, 2012, 07:16:28 PM
society has made it so we cant not go there.....many will use the guns for their agenda and many more will buy into it because of this incident ....if we want to continue to be armed this fight and this issue is going to always be there no matter how tragic the situation... this is where we are as a society and its not gonna change any time soon...here we go guys, the person who wrote this column just had to bring up the fact that guns were now legal to carry in the park, like this clown would have stopped at the gate and turned around if they werent. :bash:
Read the comments the anti's are already posting up, complete morons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/mount-rainer-national-par_n_1178709.html
Lets not go there with this thread please
My thoughts are with those who are affected by this tragic event....
Agree with Run, on this one... we will have to defend our rights, by making sure we point out that this guy was a CRIMINAL to begin with, and that laws would not stop him.
As for what should happen to the shooter?
Maybe the wolves will get him, eat him alive. His screams heard from valley to valley across the park.
Post by: Gringo31 on January 01, 2012, 07:42:44 PM
Quote
Not me, why spend money on this POS for litigation, only to see him go to prison where we continue to pay until he dies or gets back out. I hope a sniper puts a well placed shot right in the 10 ring, a $1.00 180gr. Ballistic tip and its over.
Spot on :tup:
I really, really, really, hope they don't find him and he gives up with his hands up, makes no quick moves and they have to arrest him. Please let him come off that mountain in a bag.....
Post by: Bob33 on January 01, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The killing appears to be related to an early morning shooting in Skyway in which a man and woman were critically injured and two other men wounded during a house party, according to Sgt. Cindi West of the King County Sheriff’s Department.
A man fled that house after the 3 a.m. shooting, West said.
The car involved in the national park shooting was registered to a man being sought in the Skyway shooting, 24-year-old Benjamin Colton Barnes. He is described as a “person of interest” in the park shooting, according to Washington State Patrol spokesman Guy Gill.
Post by: bow-n-head on January 01, 2012, 07:50:07 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 01, 2012, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: JPhelps on January 01, 2012, 07:54:30 PM
Second, Justice needs to be served. I am not for people having to suffer (what lesson is this D-Bag going to learn) but in this case I will make an exception. It wouldn't break my heart if someone got a crack shot at him or two and he was gut shot or hit in the junk and he had to survive a couple days like that before he was later killed.
Post by: longrangekiller on January 01, 2012, 08:32:39 PM
Post by: big wood on January 01, 2012, 08:41:40 PM
WHY DONT THE MILITARY FLY OR WHOEVER FLY OVER AND LOOK WITH INFER RED OR HEAT DETECTION. I THINK THEY USE THAT FOR POACHERS IN THE PARK?
Post by: Bob33 on January 01, 2012, 08:45:45 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on January 01, 2012, 09:56:12 PM
I pray he dies a slow slow slow aggravating death
Post by: bobcat on January 01, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
Post by: coyotewallace on January 01, 2012, 09:59:20 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 01, 2012, 09:59:33 PM
I just saw on the news that they are tracking him in 70 inches of snow. :yike:
I would back off and let him "cool down" and think about it...
Post by: norsepeak on January 01, 2012, 10:01:08 PM
Post by: goosegetter79 on January 01, 2012, 10:08:39 PM
Authorities are conducting a manhunt at Mount Rainier National Park in Washington State after a park ranger died in a shooting Sunday following a routing traffic stop, authorities said.
Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said late Sunday afternoon Benjamin Colton Barnes, a 24-year-old believed to have survivalist skills, was a "strong person of interest" in the slaying of Margaret Anderson. A parks spokesman said Barnes was an Iraq war veteran. Authorities recovered his vehicle, which had weapons and body armor inside, Troyer said.
Barnes was also a suspect in the early Sunday morning shooting of four people at a house party south of Seattle, police said.
Authorities believed the gunman was still in the woods, with weapons. They asked people to stay away from the park, and for those already inside to leave.
"We do have a very hot and dangerous situation," Troyer said.
Troyer said authorities were following tracks in the snow they believe are from the gunman, and crews planned to bring an airplane through the area with heat-seeking capabilities.
"We believe we have a good track on him, but he's way ahead of us," Troyer said.
The killed ranger was identified as 34-year-old Margaret Anderson.
At around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, another park service employee had tried to stop a man in his vehicle. He didn't stop, so Anderson set up a road block with her vehicle in the middle of the road, said park spokeswoman Lee Taylor. The man pulled up to Anderson about 11 a.m., jumped out, fired and ran off, she said.
There were no witnesses to the shooting, but the shooter was identified as a male, Taylor told Fox News.
"We're searching for someone that does not want to be found," Taylor said. "And who has a weapon, and is willing to use it."
Troyer also said it appeared there were still visitors hiking on the mountain who could not be reached and were not aware of what was going on.
"We do have a very hot and dangerous situation," he said.
Troyer said when authorities arrived they were also shot at, but no one else was hit. About 150 officers were on the mountain, but they had not made contact with the gunman and did not know where he was, Troyer said.
Authorities said earlier that Anderson's body had been removed from the park, but Troyer said police have been unable to get to her.
Park superintendent Randy King said Anderson is a mother of two young daughters who had served as a park ranger for about four years. King said Anderson's husband also was working as a ranger elsewhere in the park at the time of the shooting.
"It's just a huge tragedy -- for the family, the park and the park service," he said.
Adam Norton, a neighbor of Anderson's in the small town of Eatonville, Washington, said the ranger's family moved in about a year ago. He said they were not around much, but when they were Norton would see Anderson outside with her girls.
"They just seemed like the perfect family," he said.
The town of about 3,000 residents, which is a logging community overlooking Mount Rainier, is very close knit, he said.
"It's really sad right now," Norton said. "We take care of each other."
It has been legal for people to take loaded firearms into Mount Rainier since 2010, when a controversial federal law went into effect that made possession of firearms in national parks subject to state gun laws.
The shooting occurred on an unseasonably sunny and mild day. The park, which offers miles of wooded trails and spectacular vistas from which to see 14,410-foot Mount Rainier, draws between 1.5 million and 2 million visitors each year.
The Longmire station served as headquarters when the national park was established in 1899. Park headquarters have moved but the site still contains a museum, a hotel, restaurant and gift shop, which are open year-round.
The Washington State Patrol also was helping with the investigation.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/ranger-killed-in-mount-rainier-national-park-shooting/#ixzz1iHJsR9QP
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2012, 10:17:28 PM
FIRST OFF I WISH THE FAMILY AND FREINDS MY DEEPEST REGRETS
WHY DONT THE MILITARY FLY OR WHOEVER FLY OVER AND LOOK WITH INFER RED OR HEAT DETECTION. I THINK THEY USE THAT FOR POACHERS IN THE PARK?
This may or may not work. The major thing to consider is weather. Someone said a weather front is moving in :dunno: Flying anytime at night in the mountains is dangerous add to that high winds which typically precede a weather front and it can get scary. Is there fog rain. If weather moves in then nothing can or will fly.
Second my helicopter has the best thermal imagery device in any helicopter I know of. If tje weather is not a factor than conditions are excellant to spot a person. Seeing detail of terrain will suck necause everything is cold and near the same temperature. Thermal imaging devices sense temperature differences and make a picture from that. If everything is near the same temp then you won't have much detail or contrast between objects such as rocks trees stumps etc. But a living object that is warm will stand out against that cold background really well.
Now some things that can and will diminish the image is if he is wearing very thick clothes it can mask his return. Especially since the outside of the coat is the same temp as the surroundings. If he hugs a tree and there is branches between my line of sight and him he will disapear. If he is hugging a tree I will only see a tree and branches.
The good news is he couldn't have gone far, they have a good start point and from the air it is very obvious the likely avenues of travel he would take. Also guys may hide under a tree but curiosity killed the cat. They always want to sneak a peak at you. They always peak their body around to look at what is hunting them especially if they think you are not looking at them. :twocents:
Post by: Bean Counter on January 01, 2012, 10:27:37 PM
must have missed the 30' chain part and dragging him.
I saw it, only problem is we would end up awarding his family a $30 million settlement for using excesive force.
Especially if he's not white as white bread.
Post by: bentley30-06 on January 01, 2012, 11:01:22 PM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 01, 2012, 11:15:56 PM
When I was at Ft. Lewis we had a Ranger wanted for 2 rapes head off into the Park like this with two duffle bags of C Rats. He didn't last so long. I don't think this guy will. Likely hung over, not packed for it, no food stashed. I think nature will bring him in. Hopefully nature kills him.
Prayers for the Husband and two little girls left behind. And any Hikers unaware.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Margaret-A-Anderson/102568573134935?ref=ts&sk=info
Post by: coyotewallace on January 01, 2012, 11:20:51 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on January 01, 2012, 11:39:17 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 01, 2012, 11:43:02 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 02, 2012, 12:14:09 AM
I am lost for words. The only thing that comes to mind is that I hope they have to take him out the the same way he did her. Prayers for her family.
:yeah:
Spot on, all things end in judgement and some times that judgement comes in the form of. Right here right now and justice is served. At a great less expense and to the benefit of the people as a whole.
Post by: JJB11B on January 02, 2012, 01:44:30 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 01:45:41 AM
It wouldn't break my heart if someone got a crack shot at him or two and he was gut shot or hit in the junk and he had to survive a couple days like that before he was later killed.
If you get shot in the junk, you will bleed out in about 4 minutes. The largest artery in a mans body.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 01:55:40 AM
The update said they believe they have his track and are bringing in a heat senser plane soon. I sure hope they kill him on site because I do not want the state to have to pay his jail costs. does anyone on hear know him. It says he has military experience.
You can hide from FLEER with a mylar space blanket.
Post by: PolarBear on January 02, 2012, 03:44:12 AM
www.odmp.org
Post by: Camp David on January 02, 2012, 05:04:34 AM
http://www.news.com.au/world/ranger-killed-in-us-national-park/story-e6frfkyi-1226235142514
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 05:58:31 AM
Here is a picture of the scum....invite him in for "shot" if you see him.
http://www.news.com.au/world/ranger-killed-in-us-national-park/story-e6frfkyi-1226235142514
WTF? Can't anybody keep the facts straight? In the very same article. It is first stated that Mr. Barnes opened fire on her with a shotgun. Three or four paragraphs down it is stated that she was shot with a high power assult rifle. And to label a semi automatic rifle as an assault rifles gets to me also. By military definition, a semi auto rifle is not an assault rifle. To be an assult rifle by definition, the rifle has to have the capability of selective fire. Thanx to Clinton and his mass phycology campaign for ten years of calling my AR-15 an assault rifle.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 02, 2012, 06:05:09 AM
Post by: jyerxa on January 02, 2012, 06:28:10 AM
Post by: dawhunt on January 02, 2012, 06:34:25 AM
It wouldn't break my heart if someone got a crack shot at him or two and he was gut shot or hit in the junk and he had to survive a couple days like that before he was later killed.
EXACTLY !!!! :yeah:
If you get shot in the junk, you will bleed out in about 4 minutes. The largest artery in a mans body.
Post by: HairTrigger on January 02, 2012, 06:36:03 AM
sure would be nice to have the "Wanted Dead or Alive" Bounties again wouldn't it? I'd pop him. :tup::tup: :tup:HELL YEAH!!!! :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 06:48:10 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2012, 07:20:21 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on January 02, 2012, 07:22:02 AM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 02, 2012, 07:26:17 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 02, 2012, 07:35:05 AM
This isn't no Rambo thats for sure.I was thinking the same thing. There are several similarities to the movie, however.
Post by: HairTrigger on January 02, 2012, 07:58:57 AM
If they catch him alive......I see an insanity plea?Gat damn I hope not he was sane.enough.to drive off after his first shootings an get more guns an gas up. An head for the hills an draw his weapons :dunno:
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 08:05:19 AM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 02, 2012, 08:37:11 AM
Post by: Wazukie on January 02, 2012, 08:39:59 AM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 08:42:24 AM
4 people shot at a party. A Wife and Mother Dead. 2 Girls with no Mom. A kid with a Dad headed for death or Prison. God knows how much $$ to get him.
All because this *censored* got drunk and lost his temper. :bash: :bash:
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 08:52:01 AM
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 08:55:30 AM
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Yep. One more reason I pack a radio and make sure I craft an antennae to get local and or national news in the woods. Being the Platoon RTO paid off...
Post by: bearpaw on January 02, 2012, 08:55:53 AM
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Totally agree, this is a guy with professional training that has gone bad, only the right people should be sent after this guy.
Post by: Wazukie on January 02, 2012, 09:04:09 AM
Oh ya, just because a guy has gun and might no how to use it and maybe have a little bit of gear, doesnt mean that he can survive in the wilderness. He might be a combat vet but his mind is already playing tricks on him.
Just some thoughts from a combat vet.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 09:11:59 AM
so, who are the right people? Those who wont follow because this guy is walking through creeks? Most LEO's are not trained for wilderness survival or combat, just inter-city jungle survival. But, now that I think about it, most of the Hunters I know in this state only fire their weapons a few times a year and really have no wilderness experience and would probably just get lost.
Oh ya, just because a guy has gun and might no how to use it and maybe have a little bit of gear, doesnt mean that he can survive in the wilderness. He might be a combat vet but his mind is already playing tricks on him.
Just some thoughts from a combat vet.
Bet there's a lot of Vets in the FBI and other LEO's going after him. Met A lot of Cops over the years that had CIB's others still in the Guard or Reserve, Hunters too. Wonder what his MOS was...
Post by: Wazukie on January 02, 2012, 09:15:17 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 09:25:22 AM
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Totally agree, this is a guy with professional training that has gone bad, only the right people should be sent after this guy.
Yes, I agree also. But, there are quite a few of us on here that have more than hunter's ed for training. Your average hunter would not have a single clue on what to look for. Especially in the woods. Your average hunter would be dead before he even saw anything. Remeber, there are some of us that have LEO, military backgrounds ourselves. A big game hunter can make a good sniper.
Post by: jyerxa on January 02, 2012, 09:36:18 AM
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Don't remember the source, sorry about that. But don't freshly trained military do the same thing in their first fire fight?
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 09:43:31 AM
Bottom line is it takes a lot more than wilderness skills to track, hunt down and kill this guy. Even if you have the proper training it takes more. How long ago did you train? What gear do you have? What shape are you in? Have you trained as a team? Or is it a bunch of individuals. A team that works well and trains together will beat a group of highly trained individuals anyday.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 09:48:29 AM
Post by: NWBREW on January 02, 2012, 09:52:39 AM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Don't remember the source, sorry about that. But don't freshly trained military do the same thing in their first fire fight?
Had the chance to see a fellow Squad Leader get his Bronze Star (and some other ARVN Medal) many years after the fact. As part of a 4 man recon team in the 101st he took out an NVA LMG bunker. He said in his first firefight he just *censored* his pants and laid there. His platoon Sgt laughed it off, said it happens a lot.
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 09:53:59 AM
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
Don't remember the source, sorry about that. But don't freshly trained military do the same thing in their first fire fight?
It used to be that way because of how we trained. But training changed after Korea so now instead of 1 out of 10 firing to kill now it is only 1 of 10 who DOESN'T shoot to kill. With modern training between tje MILES gear and sim rounds by the time I got into my first firefight I had been in like 100 training firefights before and so training took over and I properly reacted. Training is what seperates a soldier from a hunter. An excellant book about this is "On Killing" by LTC Rex Grossman.
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 09:57:44 AM
Post by: BAR C3 on January 02, 2012, 10:28:43 AM
Colockum you and I agree!I dont know if this has been mentioned, but in my opinion, the fastest and best way to find this guy? Let the hunters go after him! :dunno:
:bdid:
1. Only 1 out of 10 hunters withoutt training would actually pull tje trigger on a human.
2. This guy has military training and combat experience. Most hunters don't have this. This means a lot of hunters would get killed.
I'am trained to go after this guy and I will tell you right now your going in on the defensive. This is a bad situation! I was a Commander of a SWAT and Tactical Tracking team. You can only imagine if this guy has the training they say he has, how bad this could get. You will catch him, but there will be some more victims if he has a will to die. He can plant his butt somewhere and peck people off when they are approaching him. This is mission that should involve some very high speed federal tactical teams. Not even a routine Police Officer should be out looking for this guy. If you live in Packwood and or Morton, load your weapons and have your place secure. If he is in the Skate Creek area, he is probably going to be headed in that area. Like the article said, he is looking to get out of snow. It is much harder to track in the less obvious. It is also much slower and trackers are more vulnerable.
It's ashame what this guy did, but this is just a glimmer of what these military men and women are dealing with as they return. War is hard on people. From someone that has had a lifetime to deal with a father with PTSD from Vietnam, this is as bad as it gets when they start victimizing other people. That I can't figure out. Especially a person in uniform. RIP to the Park Ranger. It's been a rough couple years for Law Enforcement Officers.
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 10:41:59 AM
My prayers go out to the family of tje fallen officer and to the men tracking this guy. I just wish these giys would be allowed to have helicopter support in finding this guy. A fixed wing plane is almost useless. They need a helicopter but due to safety reasons they wont get one. :bash:
Thanks for your service BARC3
Post by: NateR on January 02, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 02, 2012, 10:47:38 AM
Post by: jennyfell55 on January 02, 2012, 10:50:35 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 02, 2012, 10:52:08 AM
Post by: Huntbear on January 02, 2012, 10:55:16 AM
KING5 reports he's been found dead.
If he shot himself at least he saved the taxpayers a chit pot load of money. Although the family may have preferred to see him fry. If someone took him out, he needs a handshake and a job well done.
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 02, 2012, 10:59:52 AM
BATCH3. Definately agree well said. Especially adding even a street cop doesn't have the proper training. There is nothing more dangerous than tracking someone with nothing to lose. I do disagree that the war is not to blame. 99% of people who return with PTSD get back to normal and lead productive lives. This is just a loser POS who is a direct result of lowering the standards for people enlisting.
My prayers go out to the family of tje fallen officer and to the men tracking this guy. I just wish these giys would be allowed to have helicopter support in finding this guy. A fixed wing plane is almost useless. They need a helicopter but due to safety reasons they wont get one. :bash:
Thanks for your service BATCH3
One article I read said they were bringing in both. Sounds like both are CBP assets. Curious as to why they're from OR and not B-ham or Spokane.
Problem they were facing was the shooters lack the back country and skills and the rangers lack the shooter skills.
Something for departments to think about. Especially counties that have places like Snoqualmie, Mt Rainier, Mt Baker etc.
Can't use Ft Lewis assets because of the Posse Comitatus Act.
Post by: Widgeondeke on January 02, 2012, 11:06:36 AM
Good riddance. One less scumbag living in jail forever sucking up taxpayer money with cable tv and better meals than I get. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family, what a tragic way to start this year.My thoughts exactly. Saving us tax payers lots of money and headaches of wondering if justice would truly be served.
Glad he got his.
I hope the other 4 victims recover and that the father & kids are as best as can be expected after losing their wife/mother.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 02, 2012, 11:09:30 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 02, 2012, 11:13:03 AM
One article I read said they were bringing in both. Sounds like both are CBP assets. Curious as to why they're from OR and not B-ham or Spokane.
Problem they were facing was the shooters lack the back country and skills and the rangers lack the shooter skills.
Something for departments to think about. Especially counties that have places like Snoqualmie, Mt Rainier, Mt Baker etc.
Can't use Ft Lewis assets because of the Posse Comitatus Act.
1) What is CBP?
2) The National Guard Apache's could be ulitized, correct?
3) The WaDNR has FireCobra's, do they retain their armour or has that been removed. And do they have firefighting IR that could be of use?
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 11:14:25 AM
Post by: actionshooter on January 02, 2012, 11:15:20 AM
Really hope he was capped by LE. Hope he did not do himself in. Hypothermia would be OK too...
Shot in the knees by LE and left for hypothermia would be best.
Post by: bloodhound on January 02, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 02, 2012, 11:19:14 AM
They can use the Ft. Lewis assets just as long as they are not in direct action.
And an Apache or Cobra would be safe from a guy with an assualt rifle?
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 02, 2012, 11:21:44 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2012, 11:23:23 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 02, 2012, 11:24:44 AM
Probably identified thru FLIR a body in a canyon.....
It is too bad good people have to go claim his miserable carcass....
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 02, 2012, 11:27:18 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 02, 2012, 11:28:19 AM
I think after they ID the guy, just leave him and put trail cameras around him. Use him as part of a wolf study....
Probably took the easy way out and offed himself. To much of a sissy to shoot it out with SWAT.
Post by: Gringo31 on January 02, 2012, 11:29:27 AM
Quote
it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.
While I hear what you are saying.....I think my signature sums it up best :twocents:
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2012, 11:30:18 AM
Quote
What a terrible tragedy, especially during the Holidays at a place where people are spending time with the family. That said, I was angry at first, but then after reading the guy was a vet, likely with PTSD (I think I said that right), it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.
I don't excuse it that easily. He had a choice.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 02, 2012, 11:33:10 AM
Post by: BAR C3 on January 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
QuoteWhat a terrible tragedy, especially during the Holidays at a place where people are spending time with the family. That said, I was angry at first, but then after reading the guy was a vet, likely with PTSD (I think I said that right), it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.
I don't excuse it that easily. He had a choice.
:yeah:
All sympathy with him in my book was lost as soon as he chose to shoot an unarmed Park Ranger!
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on January 02, 2012, 11:35:20 AM
They can use the Ft. Lewis assets just as long as they are not in direct action. Such as they can't shoot or arrest anyone. They help out Border Patrol all the time. But because of this act (which I support 100%). our forces can only assist the officers in searching for criminals or illegal immigrants. So for example a military helicopter could fly around searching for this guy and call in anything he finds.I stand corrected.
I thought the assisting CBP was a "modification". However, did some reading and educated myself on the act and learned a few new things.
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 11:36:29 AM
What a terrible tragedy, especially during the Holidays at a place where people are spending time with the family. That said, I was angry at first, but then after reading the guy was a vet, likely with PTSD (I think I said that right), it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.
:bash: No you are wrong dman. There is a TON of programs to deal with PTSD. I could type pages about how well we are prepared to deal with PTSD, education about it and all tje programs to help out. The fact that he is a vet has nothing to do with what he did. This guy was a psychotic POS before he enlisted. The only thing I blame the military for is this guy is an example of what happens when you lower the standards for enlistment. 99.9% of people with PTSD get the proper treatment and go on to lead normal lives. This POS isn't a reflection on how we deal with PTSD. F'KING media. Is gonna make all vets look crazy now. They will use this against us. :bash:
Post by: BAR C3 on January 02, 2012, 11:45:37 AM
Watch the news the next couple days, mark my word, there will be all kinds of stories on who he was. F him! He is a piece of crap that just ruined many families. Lets not forget the victims in Skyway!
The only thing I may disagree with Colockum is I don't think you would find 99.9% go on to live a normal life. Most will say they are fine, but will never be normal. Kind of like an alcoholic. Always going to be an alcoholic, just recovering.
Post by: passing-thru on January 02, 2012, 11:46:21 AM
Authorities located a body face-down in the snow without any identification, but believe it to be Benjamin Colton Barnes, 24, the sole suspect in Sunday's shooting, according to a Twitter posting from Washington State Patrol spokesman Guy Gill.
Just read this on ABC News site
My condolence goes out to the rangers famil, as well as family of the shooter. Having had a close family member suffer from mental illness (obviously this guy does) the hurt in family is also felt.
Post by: PA BEN on January 02, 2012, 11:47:03 AM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/01/9875731-body-found-likely-man-sought-in-killing-of-rainier-ranger
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 02, 2012, 11:57:51 AM
Suicide no doubt.Quite possibly, or he could have fallen or sucumbed to hypothermia. Or they might have shot him, and aren't saying anything yet.
I don't think he had a plan, heading the one-way road to paradise isn't really a good way to hide from the authorities. I would imagine that when he ran from the car, he really wasn't properly equiped
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 12:05:50 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on January 02, 2012, 12:20:12 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 02, 2012, 12:32:53 PM
Suicide no doubt.Quite possibly, or he could have fallen or sucumbed to hypothermia. Or they might have shot him, and aren't saying anything yet.
I don't think he had a plan, heading the one-way road to paradise isn't really a good way to hide from the authorities. I would imagine that when he ran from the car, he really wasn't properly equiped
I think he had a plan. I think he knew they would be looking for him for the Skyway shooting. I think he heavily armed himself, had a bullet proof vest and survival gear and headed to paradise to kill as many people as he could before heading into the wilderness to hide(kind of like the Norway Killings). I think he wanted to be seen as some sort of bad a** that the news likes to make a hero out of.
Paradise has one way in, imagine trying to get assests into the area when the 911 call comes in of an active shooter at the lodge.
I would say that the Ranger that died is a hero. Everything happens for a reason. It would seem that in the grand scheme of things, she gave her life to save many.....Again RIP..
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 02, 2012, 12:36:38 PM
BARC3 you ate correct. I should have clarified. I should have said non violent crime free lives. And yea if someone doesn't get T.reeted with PTSD its because they didn't want help.
Because they are Dr's and would know the difference? Treatment takes diagnosis, it's an illness, not a jacket you put on and take off.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 02, 2012, 12:46:26 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on January 02, 2012, 12:59:13 PM
Post by: Heartsblood on January 02, 2012, 01:02:47 PM
:yeah: PTSD as well as most other mental illnesses are not easily detected by the ones "infected" with them. I agree with colokumelk that the military has treatment available but I don't agree that people with PTSD are able to pinpoint their issue easily and just say hey I need help. I'm a firefighter/emt and I've seen dead children and pulled dead people out of buildings. Luckily in the fire service we have a strong support structure. I never that I was that affected until someone mentioned to me to possibly get checked out. :twocents::yeah:
It's not a choice. Period. Anyone who thinks all someone who is suffering from PTSD needs to do is choose to get help, lacks the kind of understanding that is necessary to treat PTSD in the first place. It's not about will power. Best leave it to the experts. Even if a suffer gets to the point of reaching out for help, it's anything but a foregone conclusion that treatment will work. It is hard, hard work to recover from the types of trauma that create PTSD. Not everyone can do it. It's a messy situation all around because as we see, it doesn't only affect the one who has PTSD.
So, so sad...
Post by: Ranger91298 on January 02, 2012, 01:03:53 PM
And yea if someone doesn't get T.reeted with PTSD its because they didn't want help.Colockumelk, I can't agree more with everything you have said. I am not trying to threadjack but it frustrates me how much people allow themselves to be influenced by what the news says. Everyone is quick to believe that the military is not doing enough for its veterans regarding PTSD. People need to wake up and breath in a little reality. If you don't know the facts then don't assume. The military has all the services needed for Service Members to get help but if a person is too macho or chooses not to let the system help them then who's fault is it? At the same time the government doesn't help either. Our government is so fricken far in debt that they are cutting our own throats. They are so quick to provide Trillions of dollars to other countries in the time of need when we have our own issues within our own borders. We throw millions and millions of dollars to all these greedy corporations that were going under but yet who suffers for it; our own taxpayers foot the bill. The very people that are struggling to make ends meat all while these millionaire/billionaire corporations get off easy. In the end everything costs money. So, if the military loses money from the Federal Government to help provide support for such things as PTSD I don't see how it is the militaries fault if the government is pissing away money to other countries or these large corporations w/their yearly multi-million dollar bonuses.
Just yesterday I was watching some NFL games and the commentators were remarking on who is going to get fired at the end of the season. You ever wonder how much influence or how much these owner's or GM's pay attention to them and let their comments influence their decisions? In my opinion probably too much. Some people are just so quick to point the finger because they heard someone else say something they know nothing about.
Sorry for the threadjack and rant,
On another note I think that this is such a tragedy and we will never understand why this coward did those things. It was said earlier that it shouldn't matter if it is a male or female; I totally agree. This low life was a POS. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family, husband and two daughters. I would be surprised if he committed suicide. If his intent was to kill himself in the end then why go through all the trouble of trying to avoid the authorities trudging through creeks and 70 inches of snow? Doesn't add up to me. I want to believe he died in the most miserable way possible; alone in the dark in the worst conditions nature can throw at you all while suffering from dehydration, frostbite, cold & hypothermia.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 02, 2012, 01:04:23 PM
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 02, 2012, 01:06:26 PM
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 01:59:17 PM
From the day we join the military we are taught a out PTSD, the causes effects and warning signs. We continue to get these classes throughout our career. We get the same amount and type of classes on suicide awareness. We take a mental test before and after we get back from a deployment to determine if we had a traumatic brain injury or for signs of PTSD. Part of our pre and post deployment training is alot of PTSD and suicide classes. We are taught to look after each other and as a leader we keep close tabs on our guys. We have 24 hour hotlines available and all the free therapy you can get. There is one on one with a shrink, group classes and group therapy, there is a whole section to tje hospital dedicated to PTSD and TMI. There are free retreats to 5 star resorts, tjere is couples therapy and couples retreats. Even wives get a lot of training to help deal with it. The VA offers all tje free training you want once you get out. My good buddy 4 years after getting out was on the brink of a divorce and an alcoholic and finally got tje help he needed. FOR FREE! It tools four years of friends and family nagging him before he would finally help himself. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.
Of course this will just add fuel for the anti war crowd and will try to garner sympathy for this POS and will find some vet who claims he didn't get the help he needed and that this is a direct result of the effects that the war in Iraq had. Like I said it'll be used against us. The drive to prevent vets with PTSD or a history of PTSD from getting a conceal carry permit will be on again. :bash:
Post by: adamR on January 02, 2012, 02:10:02 PM
What a terrible tragedy, especially during the Holidays at a place where people are spending time with the family. That said, I was angry at first, but then after reading the guy was a vet, likely with PTSD (I think I said that right), it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.
Having PTSD doesn't give someone the right to kill another. The government is doing the best it can to avoid PTSD issues such as suicidal thoughts, depression, and nightmares. During Post Deployment I think I saw at least 4 different doctors who wanted to talk and that was the minimum, the people that asked for help were given every opportunity. If you faked being ok, because you were to macho or were scared what your buddies think you are a moron and it's your own fault. PTSD is a terrible thing but it should never be used as an excuse!!!
Glad the guys is dead though!!!
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 02:13:36 PM
Quote
No one especially me is not down playing the seriousness of PTSD. Everyone is affected differently. It ranges from getting nervous in crowds and getting tense when you hear fire works to suicidal thoughts and abusive and violent thoughts and actions. But when people say our military doesn't do enough to help out with PTSD its because they probably are not in the military or have been recently. The fault is not on the Army, the Iraq war or anyone else. It is 100% his fault.
Amen to that. I just kind of went off at the Bob Rivers page on Facebook. People making excuses for him. Blaming the Military etc.
I had my own long running battle with PTSD. Set up by a childhood of abuse I will not describe here. Compounded by the second half of my enlistment. It led to multiple suicide attempts, one putting me in the hospital for 7 months. Homelessness for a year before that. I could write a book. The thought of lashing out and hurting others like this guy did never even entered my mind and the provocations were certainly there, quite often. No mater what happened to this guy. His actions were his choice. Period. It's a shame the way he ended up. But my only real sympathies are for the ones left behind.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 02, 2012, 02:24:30 PM
No one especially me is not down playing the seriousness of PTSD. Everyone is affected differently. It ranges from getting nervous in crowds and getting tense when you hear fire works to suicidal thoughts and abusive and violant thoughts and actions. But when people say our military doesn't do enough to help out with PTSD its because they probate ly are not in the military or have been recently. The fault is not on the Army, the Iraq war or anyone else. It is 100% his fault.
From the day we join the military we are taught a out PTSD, the causes effects and warning signs. We continue to get these classes throughout our career. We get the same amount and type of classes on suicide awareness. We take a mental test before and after we get back from a deployment to determine if we had a traumatic brain injury or for signs of PTSD. Part of our pre and post deployment training is alot of PTSD and suicide classes. We are taught to look after each other and as a leader we keep close tabs on our guys. We have 24 hour hotlines available and all the free therapy you can get. There is one on one with a shrink, group classes and group therapy, there is a whole section to tje hospital dedicated to PTSD and TMI. There are free retreats to 5 star resorts, tjere is couples therapy and couples retreats. Even wives get a lot of training to help deal with it. The VA offers all tje free training you want once you get out. My good buddy 4 years after getting out was on the brink of a divorce and an alcoholic and finally got tje help he needed. FOR FREE! It tools four years of friends and family nagging him before he would finally help himself. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.
Of course this will just add fuel for the anti war crowd and will try to garner sympathy for this POS and will find some vet who claims he didn't get the help he needed and that this is a direct result of the effects that the war in Iraq had. Like I said it'll be used against us. The drive to prevent vets with PTSD or a history of PTSD from getting a conceal carry permit will be on again. :bash:
I understand your concern, knee-jerk reaction's can go both ways, neither direction is good, I wouldn't condone taking away right's to carry, etc. for those capable. It's like anything else, everyone has a different experience with the same situation's. I've had relatives that successfully overcame PTSD and some that didn't, that's why I stated some need more help than others. Regardless of all that I think we can all agree it's just a sad tragedy for all involved.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 02, 2012, 02:28:09 PM
Suicide no doubt.Quite possibly, or he could have fallen or succumbed to hypothermia. Or they might have shot him, and aren't saying anything yet.
I don't think he had a plan, heading the one-way road to paradise isn't really a good way to hide from the authorities. I would imagine that when he ran from the car, he really wasn't properly equipped
I think he had a plan. I think he knew they would be looking for him for the Skyway shooting. I think he heavily armed himself, had a bullet proof vest and survival gear and headed to paradise to kill as many people as he could before heading into the wilderness to hide(kind of like the Norway Killings). I think he wanted to be seen as some sort of bad a** that the news likes to make a hero out of.
Paradise has one way in, imagine trying to get assets into the area when the 911 call comes in of an active shooter at the lodge.
I would say that the Ranger that died is a hero. Everything happens for a reason. It would seem that in the grand scheme of things, she gave her life to save many.....Again RIP..
Apparently they still haven't reached and identified the body yet. I hope it turns out to be him, and not as Ed Troyer pointed out, another possible victim, or an unrelated victim of the mountain.
But your theory about his intension's could be correct. I looked at a map, and if I understand his location correctly, he was for all purposes in the greater Paradise area. Barnes Flat is just below the lowest parking lot, east of the sewage treatment center. I would guess less than 300 yards from the visitor center
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 02, 2012, 02:53:30 PM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 03:06:25 PM
KING TV is reporting he was found and identified. He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe. Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death
Wow, a real survivalist huh?
A M F
Post by: colockumelk on January 02, 2012, 03:48:25 PM
:yeah: :chuckle: my sentiments exactly. A M F Your last day on this earth may have been cold but where your going its pretty Dang hot.KING TV is reporting he was found and identified. He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe. Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death
Wow, a real survivalist huh?
A M F
Post by: Huntbear on January 02, 2012, 03:51:38 PM
KING TV is reporting he was found and identified. He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe. Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death
Wow, a real survivalist huh?
A M F
Damnnnn ,, i think I could survive one night without any gear.. might be cold, but I would survive...
Post by: SniperDanWA on January 02, 2012, 03:53:33 PM
My heart breaks for all those kids, and the Ranger's husband.
Post by: Bob33 on January 02, 2012, 03:55:09 PM
Paradoxical undressing
Twenty to fifty percent of hypothermia deaths are associated with paradoxical undressing. This typically occurs during moderate to severe hypothermia, as the person becomes disoriented, confused, and combative. They may begin discarding their clothing, which, in turn, increases the rate of heat loss. [21][22]
Rescuers who are trained in mountain survival techniques are taught to expect this; however, some may assume incorrectly that urban victims of hypothermia have been subjected to a sexual assault. [23]
One explanation for the effect is a cold-induced malfunction of the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that regulates body temperature. Another explanation is that the muscles contracting peripheral blood vessels become exhausted (known as a loss of vasomotor tone) and relax, leading to a sudden surge of blood (and heat) to the extremities, fooling the person into feeling overheated. [23]
Post by: Ranger91298 on January 02, 2012, 04:07:37 PM
Just to clarify things... this is my OWN opinion and in no way reflects the military stance on the issues brought up...And yea if someone doesn't get T.reeted with PTSD its because they didn't want help.Colockumelk, I can't agree more with everything you have said. I am not trying to threadjack but it frustrates me how much people allow themselves to be influenced by what the news says. Everyone is quick to believe that the military is not doing enough for its veterans regarding PTSD. People need to wake up and breath in a little reality. If you don't know the facts then don't assume. The military has all the services needed for Service Members to get help but if a person is too macho or chooses not to let the system help them then who's fault is it? At the same time the government doesn't help either. Our government is so fricken far in debt that they are cutting our own throats. They are so quick to provide Trillions of dollars to other countries in the time of need when we have our own issues within our own borders. We throw millions and millions of dollars to all these greedy corporations that were going under but yet who suffers for it; our own taxpayers foot the bill. The very people that are struggling to make ends meat all while these millionaire/billionaire corporations get off easy. In the end everything costs money. So, if the military loses money from the Federal Government to help provide support for such things as PTSD I don't see how it is the militaries fault if the government is pissing away money to other countries or these large corporations w/their yearly multi-million dollar bonuses.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 04:17:00 PM
KING TV is reporting he was found and identified. He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe. Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death
Wow, a real survivalist huh?
A M F
Damnnnn ,, i think I could survive one night without any gear.. might be cold, but I would survive...
He may have just quit and laid down, it was reported early on he had been drinking in Skyway. He may have still been intoxicated when he bailed out :dunno:
Panicked, drunk, clad in cotton running through deep snow. Strike 1,2,3...
Post by: Ranger91298 on January 02, 2012, 04:24:05 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 02, 2012, 04:56:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2012, 05:52:06 PM
KING TV is reporting he was found and identified. He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe. Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death
Wow, a real survivalist huh?
A M F
Damnnnn ,, i think I could survive one night without any gear.. might be cold, but I would survive...
How? In 70 inches of snow and having to walk in creeks to try to hide your tracks? I don't see how anyone could survive that.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 02, 2012, 06:24:27 PM
The more I see pictures of Mrs. Anderson and that Port Wine Stain (the correct term) on her jaw, the more I think I saw her somewhere before...
Post by: ICEMAN on January 02, 2012, 06:26:43 PM
...How? In 70 inches of snow and having to walk in creeks to try to hide your tracks? I don't see how anyone could survive that.
They didn't.
The guy was doomed from the pavement it sounded. Unless the snow was crusted hard, he would have been trudging thru some wet snow and would have started to get damp and cold. Add a creek to his sneakers...and forgetaboutit'.... He probably walked out of his sneaker and did not even realize it.
Too bad, so sad, I'm glad.
Thank god his diseased carcass is not filthing up our national park. Thank god that the families may seek closure. Thank god healing may begin.
Post by: JJB11B on January 04, 2012, 11:11:22 PM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 05, 2012, 03:49:00 AM
Posted by Nick Provenza on January 4, 2012 at 1:29 PM
The News Tribune in Tacoma has posted an item giving details on how to donate to a fund that’s been set up for the family of National Park Service Ranger Margaret Anderson who was slain Sunday in Mount Rainier National Park.
Here’s their post:
An account in Anderson’s name has been established at KeyBank.
To make donations by mail, send them to KeyBank: Margaret Anderson Donation Account, P.O. Box 159, Eatonville, WA 98328. Make checks payable to Margaret Anderson Donation Account.
To make a donation electronically, contact your bank and asked to have the money sent to the address above.
Donations can be made in person at any KeyBank branch nationwide.
KeyBank cannot process donations over the phone.
Donations in lieu of flowers have been requested from those wishing to express their support of Margaret Anderson’s family, Mount Rainier National Park spokesman Kevin Bacher said Tuesday night.
Post by: goosegetter79 on January 05, 2012, 09:18:35 AM
Copter drops coffee cups to warn Rainier campers
Posted: Jan 05, 2012 8:35 AM PST Updated: Jan 05, 2012 8:35 AM PST
BELLINGHAM, Wash. (AP) - A helicopter searching for the gunman who killed a Mount Rainier National Park ranger on New Year's Day came across a small group of campers and used an unusual method to warn them the shooter was at large.
The crew of the Bellingham-based Customs and Border Protection helicopter wrote messages on paper coffee cups and dropped them to the campers on Monday morning telling them of the danger and urging them to hike out.
"A ranger has been shot...Shooter at large...Take road to Falls...We will keep an eye on you," the handwritten messages on coffee cups said.
The Bellingham Herald reports (http://is.gd/eCjAs2 ) the copter crew had picked up coffee from a stand near the airport.
1 of the hikers, Natalia Martinez-Paz wrote about the experience in a post at nwhikers.net.
Post by: wraithen on January 05, 2012, 10:15:01 AM