Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 09, 2012, 07:23:22 PM
Post by: high country on January 09, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 09, 2012, 07:34:13 PM
Post by: high country on January 09, 2012, 07:37:54 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 09, 2012, 07:51:17 PM
Not a thing wrong with the nozzy if it will fly for you. I would only choose bergers in heavy for caliber long bullets.
:yeah:
Post by: addicted on January 09, 2012, 09:57:12 PM
VLD's sink in 3 inches then explode.
AB's are pretty much a bonded NBT so they are supposed to mushroom big from the polymer tip and hold together for good weight retension.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 09, 2012, 10:07:24 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 09, 2012, 10:07:52 PM
...and that is EXACTLY what they do!
Post by: ing on January 10, 2012, 07:19:30 AM
Post by: high country on January 10, 2012, 07:28:19 AM
I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.
If you look at any bullet, regardless of mfr, you will see stories like yours.....it is very uncommon, but it happens. I had a pard soak a 210gr berger into a bull and it ran off. The bull was killed a few days later by a relative and it was tore up, but the bullet hit the humerous and either deflected or blew up. I ha e seen pics of a tsx with a bent tip....how do you stop a bullet that does not expand is beyond me.....but it obviously happened. I have killed a few elk with smks which many will tell you wont kill elk, let alone from a little 6.5. I would continue to shoot the accurate bullet in your gun. If the pencil through races through your mind still, choose another brand....you need 100% confidence in your shot.
Post by: addicted on January 10, 2012, 07:48:45 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 10, 2012, 07:56:54 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on January 10, 2012, 10:35:37 AM
i'd rather have a round more likely to punch through then explod on a leading bone.
My theory as well, but people seem to have good luck with the bergers, I am just not a big fan because of what you mentioned. These bullets (berger vs accubond) are built with completely different purposes. Accubond is built with decent BC and high weight retention for deep penetration, bergers are built for high BC and to expel all its energy (blow up) 2-3 inches into an animal.
Its really interesting to compare videos on how the Bergers work, opposed to how a bullet like Barnes or Accubond work.
Post by: MuleySniper on January 10, 2012, 10:45:36 AM
MS
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 10, 2012, 05:24:26 PM
I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.
Awfull big assumption that the bullet did not expand, I guarantee it did and you didn't recover it. It passed through. Its a 25 cal bullet, would you expect different results from the same hit with a Barnes ??????? I've had the same thing happen with a .300 Win Mag. Deer was just as dead 75 to 80 yards away. The bullet did its job just fine. All big game animals are different, they all react to hits differently. Just like a good'ol bar fight :). You can smack one guy in the nose and he goes down like a sack of spud and the next takes it like a champ and cleans your clock.
Post by: high country on January 10, 2012, 07:40:45 PM
I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.
Awfull big assumption that the bullet did not expand, I guarantee it did and you didn't recover it. It passed through. Its a 25 cal bullet, would you expect different results from the same hit with a Barnes ??????? I've had the same thing happen with a .300 Win Mag. Deer was just as dead 75 to 80 yards away. The bullet did its job just fine. All big game animals are different, they all react to hits differently. Just like a good'ol bar fight :). You can smack one guy in the nose and he goes down like a sack of spud and the next takes it like a champ and cleans your clock.
Some of the most radical bang flops I have ever witnessed on elk have been from a .257 tsx. Dont underestimate it.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 10, 2012, 10:25:06 PM
I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.
Awfull big assumption that the bullet did not expand, I guarantee it did and you didn't recover it. It passed through. Its a 25 cal bullet, would you expect different results from the same hit with a Barnes ??????? I've had the same thing happen with a .300 Win Mag. Deer was just as dead 75 to 80 yards away. The bullet did its job just fine. All big game animals are different, they all react to hits differently. Just like a good'ol bar fight :). You can smack one guy in the nose and he goes down like a sack of spud and the next takes it like a champ and cleans your clock.
Some of the most radical bang flops I have ever witnessed on elk have been from a .257 tsx. Dont underestimate it.
Speed kills, speed makes up for mass to a certain point. :tup:
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 10, 2012, 10:59:17 PM
Post by: Miles on January 10, 2012, 11:53:09 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on January 11, 2012, 12:12:08 AM
I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.:dunno:
maybe hit above the vitals an below the backbone shoulder shot
Post by: addicted on January 11, 2012, 12:19:18 AM
$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. :chuckle:
hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.
Post by: Miles on January 11, 2012, 02:28:55 AM
$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. :chuckle:
hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.
I was counting more on the distance away from the "lob" aspect of it... :chuckle:
Post by: ing on January 11, 2012, 07:19:47 AM
I dont recall, definitely below the backbone though. I'm just used to a deer going straight down when shot thru both shoulders.I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate. Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all. The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance. The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.:dunno:
maybe hit above the vitals an below the backbone shoulder shot
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 11, 2012, 07:29:45 AM
$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. :chuckle:
hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.
We are talking second story building and a sneak drop, they don't know it's coming.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 11, 2012, 07:32:07 AM
:yeah: very true! Think about it this way, someone lobs a football at your chest nice and easy it might hurt a little. Payton manning steps up and throws one at ya it's gonna hurt like hell! :chuckle:
On the contrary, Let me lob a bowling ball at your chest vs. Peyton Manning throwing a peanut at your chest. :chuckle: Peanut was fast but that bowling ball has energy.
Extreme, yes, but you have to have some energy with your speed. Here we go again. Energy vs. Speed. I see 10 pages. :chuckle:
That being said you can't launch that bowling ball fast enough to cause any true damage( as long as their paying attention) where as 99 percent of the the time that peanut is gonna sting a little. So are we talking about energy, or weight? Because you can have all the weight in the world and if you don't have speed then your energy goes down pretty quick. Gotta have that momentum to create energy down range or else where does your energy come from? And where does momentum/kinetic energy come from? Maintaining speed. Obviously speed is going to drop down range but tied to that so will energy.
Post by: Skillet on January 11, 2012, 07:48:41 AM
I'm just going to wait until Nosler comes out with a bonded bowling ball. There will be no guessing, then.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 11, 2012, 08:02:51 AM
You all are setting out extreme examples to make a point, but they aren't actually all that relevant to the mass/velocity discussion in terms of ballistics. If this keeps up, I think we're about five posts away from the "knocked a deer off his feet" post...
I'm just going to wait until Nosler comes out with a bonded bowling ball. There will be no guessing, then.
I ONCE KNOCKED A MONSTER MULIE DOE RIGHT OFF IT'S FEET! With a 3/4 GMC four wheel drive, right around 43 MPH. I would convert that to FPS and take a shot a ENERGY figured but I don't feel those numbers would make her anymore dead than she already was. She had to be all of 23 5/8" from ear tip to ear tip.
Post by: high country on January 11, 2012, 08:23:15 AM
I have used plenty of both. Cc bullets tend to put critters down hard and fast, but offer little margin of error. Tough bullets make less than perfect angles a whole lot more perfect. There is no right or wrong. Shoot straight and hold into the wind.....it will work.
Post by: addicted on January 11, 2012, 09:07:06 AM
Post by: high country on January 11, 2012, 09:16:43 AM
in the argument of speed vs mass, there is one defining solution...... the 338 magum cartridges. nothing like a 250-300grn projectily going 2900-3000 fps. :drool:
As long as it were a cup/core bullet. A tough bullet will leave the same hole no matter if it is a 180 or 300 gr bullet. It kills by penetration. Cup bullets kill by upset.
Post by: Skillet on January 11, 2012, 09:22:12 AM
You all are setting out extreme examples to make a point, but they aren't actually all that relevant to the mass/velocity discussion in terms of ballistics. If this keeps up, I think we're about five posts away from the "knocked a deer off his feet" post...
I'm just going to wait until Nosler comes out with a bonded bowling ball. There will be no guessing, then.
I ONCE KNOCKED A MONSTER MULIE DOE RIGHT OFF IT'S FEET! With a 3/4 GMC four wheel drive, right around 43 MPH. I would convert that to FPS and take a shot a ENERGY figured but I don't feel those numbers would make her anymore dead than she already was. She had to be all of 23 5/8" from ear tip to ear tip.
:chuckle:
43 MPH = 63 FPS. Depending on the year of your truck and the load (how much weight was in the bed? Full tank of gas?) you can nail down your grains pretty tight (7000 grains to a pound).
Let's just assume your truck, all-in, was 5000 pounds. That's a 35 million grain projectile, right there. At 63 FPS, you're looking at 308,391 foot-lbs of energy. I assume you didn't get a complete pass-through, so we can believe that she absorbed all of the energy. But I also assume your truck didn't come to an instant stop the second you hit her, either - so a lot of that energy was left in your truck's forward motion. Hmmm... I think we're circling the answer to the question of just exactly how much energy it takes to knock a deer off of her feet!
Thread hijack complete... back to the matter at hand :chuckle:
I have some 110 gr .257 Accubonds I hope to have a chance to try on a thick deer this fall as long as they shoot well out of my new-to-me 25-06. I'll definitely report the findings...
Post by: Fowlweather25 on January 11, 2012, 04:27:04 PM