Berger vld vs accubond

[high country]

I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate.  Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all.  The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance.  The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.

Awfull big assumption that the bullet did not expand, I guarantee it did and you didn't recover it. It passed through. Its a 25 cal bullet, would you expect different results from the same hit with a Barnes ? I've had the same thing happen with a .300 Win Mag. Deer was just as dead 75 to 80 yards away. The bullet did its job just fine. All big game animals are different, they all react to hits differently. Just like a good'ol bar fight . You can smack one guy in the nose and he goes down like a sack of spud and the next takes it like a champ and cleans your clock.

Some of the most radical bang flops I have ever witnessed on elk have been from a .257 tsx. Dont underestimate it.

[Biggerhammer]

I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate.  Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all.  The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance.  The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.

Awfull big assumption that the bullet did not expand, I guarantee it did and you didn't recover it. It passed through. Its a 25 cal bullet, would you expect different results from the same hit with a Barnes ? I've had the same thing happen with a .300 Win Mag. Deer was just as dead 75 to 80 yards away. The bullet did its job just fine. All big game animals are different, they all react to hits differently. Just like a good'ol bar fight . You can smack one guy in the nose and he goes down like a sack of spud and the next takes it like a champ and cleans your clock.

Some of the most radical bang flops I have ever witnessed on elk have been from a .257 tsx. Dont underestimate it.

Speed kills, speed makes up for mass to a certain point.

[Fowlweather25]

  very true! Think about it this way, someone lobs a football at your chest nice and easy it might hurt a little. Payton manning steps up and throws one at ya it's gonna hurt like hell!

[Miles]

$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. 

[HairTrigger]

I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate.  Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all.  The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance.  The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.

maybe hit above the vitals an below the backbone shoulder shot

[addicted]

$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. 

hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.

[Miles]

$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. 

hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.

I was counting more on the distance away from the "lob" aspect of it...

[ing]

I loaded up some 110 grain Accubonds for my 25-06 a few years back and they shot great, very accurate.  Only one problem, I shot a deer at about 120 yards and the Accubond punched right thru both shoulders with out hardly expanding at all.  The exit hole was just about the same size as the entrance.  The deer ran 80 to 100 yards and left very little blood to follow. I havnt used them since.

maybe hit above the vitals an below the backbone shoulder shot

I dont recall, definitely below the backbone though.  I'm just used to a deer going straight down when shot thru both shoulders.

[Biggerhammer]

$20 says I can catch that bowling ball. 

hang on a sec, what kind of lob are we talking about and how much does the bowling ball weigh.

We are talking second story building and a sneak drop, they don't know it's coming.

[Fowlweather25]

very true! Think about it this way, someone lobs a football at your chest nice and easy it might hurt a little. Payton manning steps up and throws one at ya it's gonna hurt like hell!

On the contrary, Let me lob a bowling ball at your chest vs. Peyton Manning throwing a peanut at your chest.  Peanut was fast but that bowling ball has energy.

Extreme, yes, but you have to have some energy with your speed. Here we go again. Energy vs. Speed. I see 10 pages. 

That being said you can't launch that bowling ball fast enough to cause any true damage( as long as their paying attention) where as 99 percent of the the time that peanut is gonna sting a little. So are we talking about energy, or weight? Because you can have all the weight in the world and if you don't have speed then your energy goes down pretty quick. Gotta have that momentum to create energy down range or else where does your energy come from? And where does momentum/kinetic energy come from? Maintaining speed. Obviously speed is going to drop down range but tied to that so will energy.

[Skillet]

You all are setting out extreme examples to make a point, but they aren't actually all that relevant to the mass/velocity discussion in terms of ballistics.  If this keeps up, I think we're about five posts away from the "knocked a deer off his feet" post...

I'm just going to wait until Nosler comes out with a bonded bowling ball.  There will be no guessing, then.

[Biggerhammer]

You all are setting out extreme examples to make a point, but they aren't actually all that relevant to the mass/velocity discussion in terms of ballistics.  If this keeps up, I think we're about five posts away from the "knocked a deer off his feet" post...

I'm just going to wait until Nosler comes out with a bonded bowling ball.  There will be no guessing, then.

I ONCE KNOCKED A MONSTER MULIE DOE RIGHT OFF IT'S FEET! With a 3/4 GMC four wheel drive, right around 43 MPH. I would convert that to FPS and take a shot a ENERGY figured but I don't feel those numbers would make her anymore dead than she already was. She had to be all of 23 5/8" from ear tip to ear tip.

[high country]

I love horsepower, but really how much does it take to push a .3" piece of metal through some soft tissue? There are two schools of thought on high speed rifle bullets, tough as a Montana boot. Hold together come hell or high water and get bigger on the way. Then there is the cup/core plan, hold together till impact. Send as much mass as possible on the original path. Anything that strayed will be like shrapnel from a grenade.

I have used plenty of both. Cc bullets tend to put critters down hard and fast, but offer little margin of error. Tough bullets make less than perfect angles a whole lot more perfect. There is no right or wrong. Shoot straight and hold into the wind.....it will work.

[addicted]

in the argument of speed vs mass, there is one defining solution...... the 338 magum cartridges. nothing like a 250-300grn projectily going 2900-3000 fps. 

[high country]

in the argument of speed vs mass, there is one defining solution...... the 338 magum cartridges. nothing like a 250-300grn projectily going 2900-3000 fps. 

As long as it were a cup/core bullet. A tough bullet will leave the same hole no matter if it is a 180 or 300 gr bullet. It kills by penetration. Cup bullets kill by upset.