Post by: furbearer365 on January 11, 2012, 06:03:34 PM
Post by: Huntbear on January 11, 2012, 06:09:47 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 11, 2012, 06:12:18 PM
-Steve
Post by: marlin on January 15, 2012, 11:10:36 AM
Post by: marlin on January 15, 2012, 11:13:13 AM
Here is what I was talking about
Maybe I can find a barrel in this caliber..
Post by: buckfvr on January 15, 2012, 11:23:11 AM
Post by: deerslyr on January 15, 2012, 11:27:12 AM
A true .338 WSM... not a .325.
Apparently they couldnt get very good velocity or ballistics out of the 338 wsm so they went with the 8mm instead :dunno: Im still waiting for one as well
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 11:30:39 AM
Post by: marlin on January 15, 2012, 11:31:06 AM
Youre right, but I like the idea of making my AR as multi-use as possible. .300blk isnt really a strong performer either, but it would give me an excuse for subsonic suppressed loads and could also hunt with it if I wanted to. I can just take my .308 if I want more range
Post by: Timberstalker on January 15, 2012, 11:39:09 AM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.
They have a 25WSSM, I dont know if that interests you...
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 12:37:56 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.
They have a 25WSSM, I dont know if that interests you...
Yes I know about that one. I like the full size case better. a 25 WSM should perform about the same as a 257 Weatherby I believe.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 15, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.
They have a 25WSSM, I dont know if that interests you...
Yes I know about that one. I like the full size case better. a 25 WSM should perform about the same as a 257 Weatherby I believe.
Not quite.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 12:48:26 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.
They have a 25WSSM, I dont know if that interests you...
Yes I know about that one. I like the full size case better. a 25 WSM should perform about the same as a 257 Weatherby I believe.
Not quite.
Can you elaborate on that? I'm just curious. If I was looking for a new rifle for long range shooting with minimal recoil, I think I'd be looking pretty hard at the 270 WSM. I don't think a 25 WSM would provide any advantage, other than even less recoil. But it sure seems like a 25 WSM should be capable of matching 257 Weatherby velocities.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 12:51:27 PM
Quote
One of the first wildcat cartridges based on the .300 WSM case to surface is the .25 WSM. (Not to be confused with the factory loaded .25 WSSM.) The .25 WSM was created simply by necking down the short but very fat .300 WSM case to accept .257 inch bullets. Since it is not a standardized cartridge, there are no factory ballistics to compare, and no established pressure standards. At the same pressure established as SAAMI standard for the .270 WSM, the .25 WSM should be able to give a 120 grain bullet a MV of about 3200 fps and a 100 grain bullet a MV of about 3400-3500 fps. These velocities are about 200 fps better than the .25-06 and 100 fps less than the .257 Weatherby Magnum.
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2012, 01:16:12 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5973406/Why_not_a_257_SAUM_or_257WSM#Post5973406
A 257 Weatherby would outperform it, although in a longer action.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 01:21:44 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5973406/Why_not_a_257_SAUM_or_257WSM#Post5973406
A 257 Weatherby would outperform it, although in a longer action.
Thanks for that Bob. I see Jon Barsness is posting in that thread. I really like that guy and enjoy his posts. I used to spend a lot of time at 24 Hour Campfire but have kind of forgotten about it lately. There are sure a lot of really knowledgeable people that post there.
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on January 15, 2012, 01:26:08 PM
Seriously, though, with all the new cartridges, it's getting to where the old ones look more appealing to me. I have bought my share of new stuff though, when the marketing geniuses do a good job and convince me to buy!
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 15, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=293&BulletWeight=120
vs:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/25mag.htm
-Steve
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 15, 2012, 01:38:58 PM
Maybe they should come out with a 3006, a 308, and a 223. I think those would really be efficient and do the job well ;) JK.I've kind of been thinking a similar thought. At first it seemed like all the new cartridges were filling in voids in between the standard cartridges....now it seems like the void area has been mostly filled and the even newer stuff has one or two rounds that are virtually the same ballistically, but now you get choice on action length or shoulder angle. Either way it is pretty cool how much selection is available these days.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2012, 01:41:05 PM
Maybe they should come out with a 3006, a 308, and a 223. I think those would really be efficient and do the job well ;) JK.
Seriously, though, with all the new cartridges, it's getting to where the old ones look more appealing to me. I have bought my share of new stuff though, when the marketing geniuses do a good job and convince me to buy!
:yeah:
That's actually my mindset now. I remember when I was younger I always wondered why anyone would buy a 30-06. It's too "old" and slow and boring! Now I just really don't think a 30-06 can be beat. My main rifle is a 270 but my back up is a 30-06. Then I have a 243 that I bought for the wife, which will end up being the kids' rifle because she doesn't and won't use it. Yep, pretty boring, 243, 270, and 30-06. Must mean I'm getting old.
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2012, 01:45:13 PM
Why reinvent the wheel? The 25-06 Ackley Improved will do nearly what the Weatherby will, will much less powder = less recoil than the short mags or the long weatherby cartridges. Yes, still on a long action though.Steve, the 25-06 is a great cartridge, and the 25-06 AI improves on it, but it is not a 257 Weatherby. Showing one load for the 25-06 AI is impressive, but not necessarily realistic. I can find loads for a 257 Weatherby that show 100 grain bullets going 3800 ft/second.
http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=293&BulletWeight=120
vs:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/25mag.htm
-Steve
With equivalently safe pressures, a 257 Weatherby should beat a 25-06 AI by at least 100 ft/second and more likely 150-200.
The 257 Weatherby is a factory caliber with factory ammunition; the AI is not.
I have nothing about the 25-06 and the AI version, but I don't consider them to be quite the equal of the Roy. :twocents:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 15, 2012, 05:57:38 PM
Can you elaborate on that? I'm just curious. If I was looking for a new rifle for long range shooting with minimal recoil, I think I'd be looking pretty hard at the 270 WSM. I don't think a 25 WSM would provide any advantage, other than even less recoil. But it sure seems like a 25 WSM should be capable of matching 257 Weatherby velocities.
Why reinvent the wheel? The 25-06 Ackley Improved will do nearly what the Weatherby will, with much less powder = less recoil. -Steve
Steve, the 25-06 is a great cartridge, and the 25-06 AI improves on it, but it is not a 257 Weatherby. Showing one load for the 25-06 AI is impressive, but not necessarily realistic. I can find loads for a 257 Weatherby that show 100 grain bullets going 3800 ft/second.
With equivalently safe pressures, a 257 Weatherby should beat a 25-06 AI by at least 100 ft/second and more likely 150-200.
The 257 Weatherby is a factory caliber with factory ammunition; the AI is not.
I have nothing about the 25-06 and the AI version, but I don't consider them to be quite the equal of the Roy. :twocents:
The AI will shoot factory ammo, fireforming it for the handloader. I didn't say or mean that the 25-06 equals the Roy at all. "Near", with less recoil. Which is my point.. There is no need for a 25wsm. While the 25wsm has nearly the same case capacity of the Roy, to me, that 20% more powder to get a couple hundred more fps isn't worth it as the 25cal AI gives all but maximum velocity that the Roy can, but with often more than a couple pounds less recoil over the 25wsm and the Roy. With given bullet/gun weights, the variable is the powder charge in each case to equal velocities. While the Roy can achieve higher velocities, (and maybe the WSM can do near as well), they will use more powder to do so. OK.. At this point some say, 'Duh'. But if you're not looking to melt the barrel every time you're pulling the trigger, then the AI wins with cheaper brass, plentiful options from the retail shelf, -and I just like to point out the AI's to hand loaders because so many people forget about them, to justify that much of the hype on shortmags is nothing more than just hot air. Don't get me started on the 338Federal either! ;)
-Steve
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2012, 06:11:20 PM
The 257 Weatherby does use more powder to get increased velocity. I don't find the recoil objectionable, but some may. As for barrel life, I don't worry about that personally because I don't shoot enough through a 257 to burn it out.
The 25-06 AI will shoot factory 25-06 ammo, but at reduced velocity.
A great caliber for handloaders.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on January 15, 2012, 06:15:17 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 15, 2012, 06:24:23 PM
-Steve
Post by: high country on January 15, 2012, 06:25:52 PM
Post by: high country on January 15, 2012, 06:28:30 PM
I take no offense! ;) This is a discussion, and each of us can justfy our claims. In fact, for most popular powder choices the Roy needs more powder (as would the 25wsm), in the case for a given bullet to attain the Same velocities of the slightly lesser AI. I don't dispute the Roy's ultra high velocity abilities. I dispute the need for the 25wsm, and that it would provide any noticable recoil difference than the Roy, but that the 25AI should fit the bill as a lesser recoiling long range cartridge. -as was Bobcat's question.
-Steve
Add in the cost of the dies too. Ai dies are always more money and reamer rent when you build it since it is not in every smiths cabinet.
Post by: ing on January 15, 2012, 06:30:53 PM
A true .338 WSM... not a .325.Ruger's 338 RCM doesn't count?
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2012, 06:39:39 PM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on January 16, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 16, 2012, 09:09:52 PM
A 25 WSM would be nice. Really no need for it though, as it wouldn't be much different than the 270 WSM.
They have a 25WSSM, I dont know if that interests you...
Yes I know about that one. I like the full size case better. a 25 WSM should perform about the same as a 257 Weatherby I believe.
Not quite.
Can you elaborate on that? I'm just curious. If I was looking for a new rifle for long range shooting with minimal recoil, I think I'd be looking pretty hard at the 270 WSM. I don't think a 25 WSM would provide any advantage, other than even less recoil. But it sure seems like a 25 WSM should be capable of matching 257 Weatherby velocities.
7mm WSM, .270 Bullet selection and available weights suck for the true long range game but then again the definition of " Long Range" covers a wide spectrum between shooters. :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on January 16, 2012, 09:27:16 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on January 16, 2012, 09:33:23 PM
Post by: wraithen on January 16, 2012, 09:38:16 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 17, 2012, 06:51:58 AM
Post by: high country on January 17, 2012, 08:07:36 AM
Post by: KFhunter on January 17, 2012, 09:15:00 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa170%2Fkingwuckfit%2FOdds_n_Sods%2FfatMac.jpg&hash=a4b63c90bcdc429daa27c654c7e7e76b0f934301)
20mm brass necked to 50 bmg
fatmac
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 17, 2012, 09:23:19 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 18, 2012, 10:13:09 AM
Post by: deerslyr on January 18, 2012, 10:18:22 AM
just shoot a 30-378 , 130 grain upto 200 factory loads . I cant wait to shoot the 130s !
My buddy shoots the 130 grain x bullets in his 300 weatherby, he shot his deer with it this year at 250 yards and before the recoil even hit that deer dropped like a sack of rocks.
Post by: Hornseeker on January 18, 2012, 01:49:26 PM
I'm with Bobcat... I LOVE all the different calibers...but I've been shooting an 06' for 27 yrs now and have yet to run into anything it doesn't do a great job of. PDogs to Elk...
I do love my dad 270 Weatherby though...
Post by: Hornseeker on January 18, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on January 24, 2012, 04:13:13 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 24, 2012, 07:38:45 PM
Anzio Ironworks has a full sized 20mm necked down to 50 cal.
So does Pac-Nor, it's listed on their wildcat reamer list.
Post by: splitshot on January 24, 2012, 08:52:18 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 24, 2012, 09:08:34 PM
correct me if i am wrong , the ackley-i 25 will shoot a 25-06 shell, so is the reverse possible? will a 25-06 gun shoot a improved ackley 25 shell.? i dont know what the big deal is and at what extra cost? no diff till you get out to 400-500 yards. mike w
An Ackley Improved would not fit in the chamber of a standard 25-06. But I do agree that the velocity increase in the "improved" version is negligible, especially when you consider all the extra steps you have to go through in handloading cartridges for it.
Post by: addicted on January 25, 2012, 02:08:16 AM
8x57 replaced by 338fed
7mmmauser replaced by 7mm08
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on January 26, 2012, 11:55:06 AM
Post by: Bofire on January 26, 2012, 05:48:21 PM
Carl
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 26, 2012, 05:52:07 PM
I don't think there are any niches to be filled these days. Every once and awhile something comes out that slightly outperforms something already there, but still not filling a new empty niche.
8x57 replaced by 338fed
7mmmauser replaced by 7mm08
I don't know how other than factory offerings, the 8x57 is a better cartridge than the .338 Federal. Same as for the 7x57 compared to the 7mm08. The 7x57 is a superior chambering over the 7mm08.
Post by: addicted on January 27, 2012, 08:36:56 AM
I don't think there are any niches to be filled these days. Every once and awhile something comes out that slightly outperforms something already there, but still not filling a new empty niche.
8x57 replaced by 338fed
7mmmauser replaced by 7mm08
I don't know how other than factory offerings, the 8x57 is a better cartridge than the .338 Federal. Same as for the 7x57 compared to the 7mm08. The 7x57 is a superior chambering over the 7mm08.
not the last time i looked in a speer reloading book.
Post by: addicted on January 27, 2012, 08:37:37 AM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on January 28, 2012, 09:22:22 AM