Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 07:29:47 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on January 12, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 07:34:20 PM
Post by: mikelonsford on January 12, 2012, 07:37:19 PM
Mike
Post by: DoubleJ on January 12, 2012, 07:38:20 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 12, 2012, 07:39:21 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on January 12, 2012, 07:39:54 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on January 12, 2012, 07:48:17 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 07:51:19 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 08:00:33 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on January 12, 2012, 08:00:46 PM
Post by: bullchaser on January 12, 2012, 08:14:57 PM
also reasurch what sounds to make its all about saying the right thing. try hunting high pressure elk it is a killer book for learning elk talk.
Post by: JPhelps on January 12, 2012, 08:33:40 PM
I would recommend using all winter to practice and become good with a mouth diaphragm.
Bugling Bull and Primos both offer "mini" or small frame elk calls. I also know Joel Turner can custom make diaphragms on any sized frame.
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on January 12, 2012, 08:46:59 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 12, 2012, 08:49:52 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: Wtrfowlr62 on January 12, 2012, 09:02:15 PM
I don't think it was said but primos sells a three pack of mouth calls that come in different sizes. It might not hurt to try those and don't be afraid to take some scissors and trim the call so it is comfortable in your mouth. Once you get to that point, just leave it in your car and do some calling when you are driving. When I first bought mine I couldn't even get a sound out of it and then one day it just happened and the lightbulb turned on and then I figured out how to make the different sounds. As for a bugle tube, you can use a lot of different items but if you have an old vacuum cleaner, just cut a piece of the hose and those seem to work great and don't cost you anything. :tup:
That was literally my experience honest to god could not figure it out till I got so frustrated I tried one more time perfect sound and exactly like you said just a light bulb switched. I started off using a mouth diaphragm and was told use that for all your calling, (from a very experienced caller/hunter) so I did, I could produce very good calls with my cow calls and could not figure out to save my life how to get a good bugle from it. Bought a primos bugle that one of my other guys I hunt with has and it took a little while to produce sound with it finally got the hang of it. Pretty easy to learn, and you can use a different variety of tones once you practice more with it, with different placements, basically a long frustrating process lol. I after months of practicing finally learned how to just stick to my diaphram and grunt tube and I like it a lot more, you can get a lot more emotion into your call and the change in tones I feel sounds much better. It will not happen over night diaphrams take forever to learn with but once you get it down it’ll feel easy. producing good consistent chuckles was probably the hardest part for me
Post by: THEBUGLER on January 12, 2012, 09:10:10 PM
http://www.elk101.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=250 (http://www.elk101.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=250)
blacktailcrzy,
You have got to try the Elk101 All Star diaphragm reed from Bugling Bull game calls. For a beginner and old pro they are very easy to blow and make some sweet sounds. It took the first place honors at the 2011 RMEF World Elk calling championships in the Pro's, and Men's categories!
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 12, 2012, 09:20:11 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 12, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Post by: Elknut1 on January 13, 2012, 06:41:26 AM
blacktailcrzy, please read this! You are more than likely putting the reed in the wrong area of your mouth, this is the biggest issue I come across for newer mouth reed users or those that cannot get good volume out of them!
Learning to use a mouth reed takes persistent practice, do not give up too easily, even if it seems a bit difficult at first! Make sure you're using the right tool for the job here. You want to start with a light tensioned single reed latex mouth reed or a very light tensioned 1 1/2 layered latex reed as a beginner, no double reeds here or very tight stretched latex reeds, they're not user friendly & are for more experienced callers. If using Palate Plate style calls with a metal or plastic dome the dome faces the roof of your mouth & latex can then be accessed by your tongue. You want to start with cow sounds first, soft ones at that, then you will graduate to louder & longer tones as you master the small ones. Bugles will come or stem from your cow sounds. A bugle is no more than a lengthened out cow mew where you would add more air & a bit more tension on the latex reed itself with your tongue. These bugles are reserved for AFTER you master cow sounds. You want to achieve one goal before you move on to the next one!
Do Not Over Blow! This is very common for new ones to do so, do your best to control your air output as if you were just breathing the air out past the diaphragm. Make sure you have a 100% seal where only the tag of the call is up against the roof of your mouth, not the whole call, you must dam the air up. If tag is stiff, then chew/nibble on the tag & saliva it up a bit, to soften it with your front teeth as you hold the main frame in your right hand. This will make the tag pliable & will now mold easily to your palate. The open end part of the latex reed of the call itself should be where back of top teeth on the inside meet gum line to the small ledge a bit higher up but shy of roof of mouth, you do no want it too far back or too high up in the roof of your mouth, this will help prevent gagging & tickling. It is not held with your teeth in a biting motion at all, it merely will fit snugly into place near back of top teeth near that ridge & loose tag part of reed sealed in roof of mouth, the call will be in a 20deg angle. Adjust front or back from there for best position per individual, make sure you have it sealed or you'll get a hissing sound, that shows air is getting over the top of mouth reed tag & escaping just under your pallet! Now take the tip portion of your tongue & drop it down to where it touches in the area of the inside of your bottom teeth & gum line, notice that by doing this the center part of your tongue slightly arches up, that's the point of contact to use against the latex reed, now use that middle portion of your tongue to contact mouth reed in the middle portion of the latex not the end of the latex. Some find that using the front portion back of tongue & shaping it like a bicep then using that small part of the arch in contact with the latex works best for them for some bugling such as the location bugle. To start getting a sound out of your call, say shhhh as you apply light pressure on latex with flat part or center of tongue. For more elk like sounds, now put a bit more tension on the latex & slowly increase airflow in a controlled manner. For cow sounds only light tongue pressure is needed with controlled air flow such as breathing type air. Don't push the air or force it out, avoid quick bursts of air for these starter sounds! Play with tongue tension for best sound quality, & make sure your tongue is salivated for slickness & you'll notice less tickling! Do your best to keep solid contact with tongue on reed when making sounds, this can change a bit for more nasally cow sounds, then you would slide tongue just off latex or near end of it to flutter latex & create the needed vibration of latex to get the nasal effect that a cow will use at times! For all bugles & screams you do not want your tongue slipping off front of reed, you will lose major volume there if you do! See how this info works for you! But, perfect your cow sounds first before moving on, or being concerned with bugling!
If this info helps you out to get reasonable sounds after a bit of practice & you'd like to further your progress & education, then you may like to consider a DVD we have out called "Mastering The Mouth Reed" It will go into step by step proper use of mouth reeds. In addition to this it will share with you how to make the many sounds that both cows & bulls make, & there's quite a few of them, including those difficult grunts & chuckles. Our New CD "Sounds By The Elk" will go over many of the defined sounds you'll hear & want to imitate under selective setups!
ElkNut1
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 22, 2012, 05:15:56 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elk101.com%2Fstore%2Fimages%2FElk101_All_Star_Elk_Call.jpg&hash=fc92f2a9d5f4245c9e3b38919ff28953c0aa41c9)
http://www.elk101.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=250 (http://www.elk101.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=250)
blacktailcrzy,
You have got to try the Elk101 All Star diaphragm reed from Bugling Bull game calls. For a beginner and old pro they are very easy to blow and make some sweet sounds. It took the first place honors at the 2011 RMEF World Elk calling championships in the Pro's, and Men's categories!
i love my new reed thanks it works grate still working on chuckling tho and also thanks elknut ! do you have any literature on chuckling ?
Post by: blackhorn on January 22, 2012, 05:56:49 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2012, 07:16:35 AM
sidenote.....
When on the mountain I can tell with about 98% accuracy what is an elk and what is human. Elknut would CERTAINLY fall into the 2% "I've been duped" for me. If you are interested in learning something, you should get his CDs. I have called in A LOT of bulls, and I bought them, and I learned a bunch.
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 23, 2012, 02:59:03 PM
Post by: Tbar on January 23, 2012, 03:15:41 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2012, 04:04:29 PM
Quote
His stuff is the best imo
AGREED!
Part of me doesn't want to tell anyone. I really don't need any more competetion in the woods.
Post by: dylanb on January 23, 2012, 04:30:24 PM
Post by: christopheri on January 23, 2012, 05:22:07 PM
QuoteHis stuff is the best imo
AGREED!
Part of me doesn't want to tell anyone. I really don't need any more competetion in the woods.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Ya, I purchessed some stuff from him after early season. I hunter late season and didnt see any more Elk than I did in early season.... ;)
Post by: big wood on January 23, 2012, 08:13:05 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 23, 2012, 08:49:49 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 23, 2012, 11:01:41 PM
Post by: huntnnw on January 23, 2012, 11:27:58 PM
In my opinion the "snap on" mouth piece bugles have a noticeable sound difference.
I would recommend using all winter to practice and become good with a mouth diaphragm.
Bugling Bull and Primos both offer "mini" or small frame elk calls. I also know Joel Turner can custom make diaphragms on any sized frame.
:yeah:
I can tell immediately when elk hunting on whos using bugles with attachments... people who are good with diaphrams it hard to impossible to tell the difference from a distance
Post by: RadSav on January 23, 2012, 11:34:05 PM
I do carry a few tube mounted reeds as well. Some days and some over called/scouted areas that little something different turns 'em on when nothing else will.
Good luck!
Post by: Tbar on January 24, 2012, 12:01:19 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 24, 2012, 07:39:49 AM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 24, 2012, 12:13:37 PM
Post by: Tbar on January 24, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
Post by: bullchaser on January 24, 2012, 02:05:12 PM
That is definitely an issue we deal with on a regular basis. I have literally ended up at the same jackfir as a bull without a chance of a shot ever presenting itself, that was one of the coolest memories ever(with a witness). Also dont underestimate what the eastside and rocky mountain guys are going through to find sucess. The east slope of the cascades, the high county in idaho and montana get incredibly thick. The elk seem to end up in never ending alder patches or blow downs, I guess that is a part of the challenge, its never easy. Setup is key regardless of location.I agree i think it also has as much to do with responding to what your particular bull is saying,Is he calling in your cow call,or responding i am here to to your bugle,or is he a scared satellite looking to sneak some love, or very very rarely is he the big boy who is pissed you just crossed him and he is coming... One thing i do know is the days are over when my dad would tell me he could go into a basin and let a bugle rip and here they come our bulls get to much pressure for that you have to go get em.
Post by: JLS on January 24, 2012, 02:16:38 PM
I've let a bugle rip and had bulls come and find me. Just depends on the elk and the individual situation. Doesn't happen all the time like we see on the Primos videos.
Post by: bullchaser on January 24, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on January 24, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
Post by: JLS on January 24, 2012, 05:36:18 PM
Who hasn't heard a bugle and laughed to themselves about the crappy calling elk hunter, only to walk up on a bull?
Post by: Tbar on January 24, 2012, 05:48:23 PM
Post by: huntnnw on January 25, 2012, 10:25:21 PM
Man wouldn't you like to hunt that Primos ranch one time. lets see those guys hunt a little OTC public land that would make a good show. not to hijack the thread but you have to love that on your own adventure guy he gets it done.
Point is they have a show to make...they started as you and I did a long time ago..they now have the money or the swag to get into large chunks of private...the tv industry drives them to put kills on film or you dant have a show simple as that
Post by: bullchaser on January 26, 2012, 09:02:14 AM
Post by: ridgefire on January 26, 2012, 07:04:09 PM
Post by: Tbar on January 26, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
bully bull grunt tube and a brown bugling bulls reed is easier to make all bull sounds with than any external reed bugle imo. you can buy the reed for like six bucks and the bugle tube for like twenty five or so. if you want to save some money just buy a wiffle ball bat, pretty much the same thing.:yeah:
Post by: bucklucky on January 26, 2012, 08:11:25 PM
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 26, 2012, 09:37:37 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 27, 2012, 07:23:35 AM
Post by: bullchaser on January 27, 2012, 07:28:36 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 27, 2012, 07:32:17 AM
Post by: high country on January 27, 2012, 08:09:00 AM
Post by: JPhelps on January 27, 2012, 10:43:50 AM
Buy a knight and hale "prosecutor" turkey call. It is hands down the best reed for bugling that I have used.
Sounds like Charlie is hosting the SW Washington elk calling championships. :tup:
Post by: high country on January 27, 2012, 02:03:27 PM
I'm going to give away one of my secrets here. Besides using some of my own reeds and bugling bull reeds. I use turkey reed for the best bugles.
Buy a knight and hale "prosecutor" turkey call. It is hands down the best reed for bugling that I have used.
Sounds like Charlie is hosting the SW Washington elk calling championships. :tup:
I have had great success doing that and not using a tube, just my hands.
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 27, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
Post by: flinter on January 31, 2012, 11:18:08 AM
Post by: firedog on January 31, 2012, 11:43:30 AM
Learn to cow call well also, especially for rosies in my opinion, with how short our season is sometimes they aren't in the mood to come to a bugle and besides they aren't looking to fight they are looking for Love.
One other thing is that I always have a reed in my mouth no matter is I am Bow hunting or rifle hunting. What happens though is I get to chewing on them and eventually they wear out. Carry a couple spares with ya, I know some guys say they use the same reed all for a couple years. I have had reeds get little nicks in them and the sound get off or you can't make the sound you want and it would be a bummer not to have another one with ya.
Post by: Wildsau on January 31, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
I agree about not practicing in the house. My "regime" though my grandson was playing with balloons and started getting after him, until she saw he had no balloons. :IBCOOL: All I need to do, now, is fine tune my sounds and learn to get exactly what I want, when I want it.
I will, also, be practicing on the calf sounds for bear calling.
Post by: flinter on January 31, 2012, 03:13:35 PM