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Other Hunting => Turkey Hunting => Topic started by: Sundance on January 17, 2012, 09:43:43 PM

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Title: hybrids
Post by: Sundance on January 17, 2012, 09:43:43 PM

tips?

Title: Re: Merriam/Rio hybrids
Post by: yelp on January 18, 2012, 07:47:17 AM

Its pretty difficult when you look at Rios and Merriams.  There are lots of variations.  The best way to tell is to go to states like South Dakota Black Hills which is where WA got some of the Merriams years back.  and then go to Texas and look at Rio Grande.  But Texas has some populations that are hybrids..South Texas will have true Rio Grande.  I have shot lots of turkeys that look likt rios and killed several Merriams.  Here is a few all taken in Lincoln County..which has some Merriam genetics possibly in some flocks but color variation can happen even within the Rio Grande subspecies.  Check out the black phase I shot a few years back caused by a melanin deficiency.  I think the back band of white feathers on Merriams is thicker than on Rio grande.  The last pic was shot near where they released Merriams in the 1960's.  Not sure if this helped you or not.

Title: Re: Merriam/Rio hybrids
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 18, 2012, 08:14:53 AM

We have all types of color phases now ...when I first started hunting N.E back some time ago the birds all had a nice white band around the tails ..which were true merriams but over the last 10 yrs or so the birds in the N.E corner have gotten more of a bronze color to them .... But either way as long as they can gobble who cares  :chuckle: :tup: By the way Yelp that solid black winged one is sweet  :tup: I can not wait to get going  :yeah:

Title: Re: Merriam/Rio hybrids
Post by: Wacenturion on January 18, 2012, 10:52:09 AM

First lets use Colorado as an example....

Colorado is home to two subspecies of wild turkey: the Merriam’s wild turkey (Meleagris gallopavo merriami), which occupy
the mountainous regions of Colorado and the pinyon-juniper canyon/mesa country of southeastern Colorado, and the
Rio Grande wild turkey (Meleagris gallopavo intermedia), found primarily in the cottonwood riparian systems of the eastern
plains region, in addition to the Rio Grande River area in the San Luis Valley of south-central Colorado.


I use Colorado as an example as the Merriams subspecies was native and the Rio Grandes were introduced into eastern Colorado creek bottom areas in the 80's.  Probably more unlikely they intermixed with Merriams, purely from a logistical reason...distance.  Here's a photo I clipped of a Colorado Merriam's.  Disclaimer....do not know where photo was taken, but was labeled as described.  See the similarity to our northeastern birds?  All subspecies have variances, due to any number of factors, just like all wildlife.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2FColoradoMerriams.jpg&hash=9b899ed09c22a0f7667a20c576a418faaf87e029)




Now lets look at a couple Merriam's from New Mexico.............

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkey_M_Vargas.jpg&hash=7558189ae3eb32fe5992559de0589b3660dd16dc)



Another..... high-country New Mexico Merriam's turkey.  This bird was taken on the edge of a beautiful canyon in the Gila National Forest. (2010)


(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkey_davisson1.jpg&hash=b0e36e0e06b8e98c34d172b9703e7546334b2925)


Subspecies inhabit areas based on habitat preference.  Rio's just generally like more open country, Merriam's prefer forests with an open understory, and Easterns, who spend the majority of their time inside the woodline as part of their scientific name suggests...
silvestris.  It was named by L.J.P. Vieillot in 1817 using the word silvestris, meaning “forest” turkey.

Did we have some mixing of subspecies?  Yes where they overlapped in the NE, but for the most part, Rio's will be Rio's and Merriam's will be Merriam's in choice of area to take up residence.

Title: Re: Merriam/Rio hybrids
Post by: turkeydancer on January 19, 2012, 09:23:45 AM

 :yeah:   
 As mentioned there are many factors (including diet) that will cause variations, and although there can be hybrids,  the only way to know 100% for sure is a genetics test. 
 :dunno:
Bottom line is that the state classifies the type of bird by county of harvest, and a Washington slam is an accomplishment to be proud of no matter if it may be a hybrid or a natural variation .... especially bagging an Eastern "phantom".
 :twocents: