Post by: plugger on January 18, 2012, 07:04:41 PM
With all the other hunts to apply for now, everyone would still have hunts to apply for
Post by: buglebuster on January 18, 2012, 07:08:21 PM
Post by: adamR on January 18, 2012, 07:12:21 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 18, 2012, 07:14:18 PM
Having a waiting period really won't improve draw odds much, because the people that are drawn each year are only a small fraction of the number of applicants each year.
Post by: BrushChimp on January 18, 2012, 07:30:55 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 18, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
Just FYI, after reviewing other states throughout the West, I believe Washington has one of the best point systems available. Could be like Oregon where 75% of the permits go to the highest point holders. Not good. Some Oregon residents that starting putting in now won't draw their elite tags for 20+ years. At least when you apply here you know you have a small chance even with 1 point. Those poor chaps have, statistically, a 0% chance to draw in many units for many years.:yeah:
I get tired of listening to all the bellyaching, when you consider that Washington is the third smallest state in the west, with the second highest population, Elk hunters outnumber the Elk, and if we were allowed to have a system where we could have more than a snowballs chance in hell of harvesting "quality" bulls, there would be VERY limited DRAW ONLY opportunitty within the state.
If you want to hunt Elk, we have a good system, if you want to hunt "quality" Elk , then you have to pay the price.
I have been lucky enough to draw 3 times for Observatory C, average of 6 points each time, if you want to hunt "The Blues", or "Peaches Ridge", then it takes a few more...
But, your choices reflect the difficulty in drawing, there are "quality" animals in almost every unit, and if you want to put out the effort required, then sometimes having to wait years for the chance is the price you pay, but get real, if you really want a 400" Elk, you need to go to a state that has MORE ELK, and LESS ELK HUNTERS. :twocents:
Post by: asl20bball on January 19, 2012, 07:46:49 AM
:yeah:
I get tired of listening to all the bellyaching, when you consider that Washington is the third smallest state in the west, with the second highest population, Elk hunters outnumber the Elk, and if we were allowed to have a system where we could have more than a snowballs chance in hell of harvesting "quality" bulls, there would be VERY limited DRAW ONLY opportunitty within the state.
If you want to hunt Elk, we have a good system, if you want to hunt "quality" Elk , then you have to pay the price.
I have been lucky enough to draw 3 times for Observatory C, average of 6 points each time, if you want to hunt "The Blues", or "Peaches Ridge", then it takes a few more...
But, your choices reflect the difficulty in drawing, there are "quality" animals in almost every unit, and if you want to put out the effort required, then sometimes having to wait years for the chance is the price you pay, but get real, if you really want a 400" Elk, you need to go to a state that has MORE ELK, and LESS ELK HUNTERS. :twocents:
:yeah: well said.
Post by: MADMAX on January 19, 2012, 07:59:16 AM
I have drawn and tagged out in the Margaret , Peaches, and Toutle twice now.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 19, 2012, 08:05:28 AM
So a hunt that only offers 1 permit and has 2000 people apply for it every year... why should everyone who wants it be able to draw it every 10 years? It's just not possible. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it all depends on which hunts you apply for. The only way to make permits easier to draw would be to do away with general seasons and make all elk hunting by permit only. Then they could issue a lot more permits.
Having a waiting period really won't improve draw odds much, because the people that are drawn each year are only a small fraction of the number of applicants each year.
It is not an extreme position it's a realistic one bobcat. They could offer an additional point that could be purchesed each year. Some States do that. However, how many people would complain about that as well for the same reasons if they do not draw?
Post by: atfulldraw on January 19, 2012, 08:29:02 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 19, 2012, 08:34:58 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 19, 2012, 09:28:22 AM
Post by: jackmaster on January 19, 2012, 09:33:21 AM
So a hunt that only offers 1 permit and has 2000 people apply for it every year... why should everyone who wants it be able to draw it every 10 years? It's just not possible. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it all depends on which hunts you apply for. The only way to make permits easier to draw would be to do away with general seasons and make all elk hunting by permit only. Then they could issue a lot more permits.:yeah:
Having a waiting period really won't improve draw odds much, because the people that are drawn each year are only a small fraction of the number of applicants each year.
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2012, 09:34:13 AM
Post by: Huntbear on January 19, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2012, 10:27:06 AM
Post by: rippinlips22 on January 19, 2012, 10:41:32 AM
Just FYI, after reviewing other states throughout the West, I believe Washington has one of the best point systems available. Could be like Oregon where 75% of the permits go to the highest point holders. Not good. Some Oregon residents that starting putting in now won't draw their elite tags for 20+ years. At least when you apply here you know you have a small chance even with 1 point. Those poor chaps have, statistically, a 0% chance to draw in many units for many years.:yeah:
I get tired of listening to all the bellyaching, when you consider that Washington is the third smallest state in the west, with the second highest population, Elk hunters outnumber the Elk, and if we were allowed to have a system where we could have more than a snowballs chance in hell of harvesting "quality" bulls, there would be VERY limited DRAW ONLY opportunitty within the state.
If you want to hunt Elk, we have a good system, if you want to hunt "quality" Elk , then you have to pay the price.
I have been lucky enough to draw 3 times for Observatory C, average of 6 points each time, if you want to hunt "The Blues", or "Peaches Ridge", then it takes a few more...
But, your choices reflect the difficulty in drawing, there are "quality" animals in almost every unit, and if you want to put out the effort required, then sometimes having to wait years for the chance is the price you pay, but get real, if you really want a 400" Elk, you need to go to a state that has MORE ELK, and LESS ELK HUNTERS. :twocents:
Well said! I have 11 points and have yet to get drawn for a quality bull tag. I am good with it and know my time is coming. Hope to take well advantage of my hunt when I do get drawn. I have also started putting my 10 year old son into quality bull tags so he has a good chance to get drawn at least 2-3 times, maybe more, in his lifetime before he gets to old to hunt for a quality bull, if he chooses. Same thing for a moose. Hopefully he will get drawn for a youth moose tag this year!
I am good with the point system we have at this point. Doubt they, WDFW, can make any better.
Post by: coachcw on January 19, 2012, 11:48:18 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on January 19, 2012, 12:11:10 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on January 19, 2012, 03:08:10 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 19, 2012, 03:17:40 PM
Post by: steen on January 19, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Post by: plugger on January 19, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Post by: JLS on January 19, 2012, 05:51:31 PM
Units like the Wenaha would always be tough, not much different than drawing a sheep tag. It's simple drawing odds math and no point system will alleviate that.
Post by: BENCHLEG on January 19, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
Post by: splitshot on January 19, 2012, 06:58:54 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 20, 2012, 07:48:05 AM
the main problem is population, too many people. and we keep letting them in. i remember when anyone could shoot any elk in the blues if you have a tag. i also remember when the deer season was 4 full weeks and the elk was 2 weeks. more people , more restrictions. mike w
SEE, I keep saying we need to transport wolves to King County, thin down the herd of sheeple. But noooo, you people never listen to me. :bash:
Post by: coachcw on January 20, 2012, 12:31:39 PM
Post by: soccerguy on January 21, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
One comment about my tag last fall-it was a rifle rut tag on the East side, so it was in one of the very best quality units.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 21, 2012, 07:36:15 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 21, 2012, 07:38:17 PM
Post by: GoPlayOutside on January 21, 2012, 10:20:38 PM
In my Opinion....You just have to realize that a true "Quality Bull tag" in this State will require massive patience, or Luck. As I sit on my 10 points, I realize that the 2 units I put in for could take another 10-20 years...that's my choice.
However, I can hunt "Quality Bulls" in other states almost every other year.
To me...Quality worth the waiting 10-30 years for in my home state (WA) is 350"+ in the Rut. However, I will hold a Washington 350" bull in the same regards as a Arizona 390", New Mexico 380", Wyoming 380", etc.
I just REALLY want a Nice/Quality Bull in my home state! So I am happy to wait.
(Now you can see why people get so pissed about poaching and "folks" that don't play by the WDFW's rules) now that's a topic that has :beatdeadhorse:
Post by: MADMAX on January 23, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
I don't like eastside hunting spikes and waiting for ever to draw for branched.
I was pretty darn happy with taking a 4x4 archery bull on my quality tag.
Thats my choice
Post by: Kowsrule30 on January 23, 2012, 01:38:18 PM
Post by: kirkl on January 23, 2012, 02:04:36 PM
I don't think much more could be changed and it would never be liked by all or most.... What I would like changed.... One choice for every category... Meaning one choice for "quality," bull, and antlerless... That increase odds in some areas and decrease odds in others.... But this would weed out the ones who put in for all the choices and don't have a clue where to begin when they get there.... I have drawn a "quality" tag before.... I had only 3 days to hunt before general season opened up.... It was nice but I didn't feel it was quite enough to have a true "quality" hunt with the tag at hand.... 3 years later my Dad drew the same "quality" tag and had one day to hunt with 6 or 7 other tag holders out there... Not even close to a "quality" experience if you ask me.... You figure you wait long enough to draw the tag and scout like crazy when you do... To get one to 3 days to hunt before general season opens and all your hard work of patterning and knowing non-pressured habits/bedding/feeding areas and such to be out the window within 24 hours..... Kinda bs imo..... You should get at least five days with just the other tag holders before general opener....
Modern rifle you get the monday-friday with just the tag holders before general starts on a saturday.
Post by: Kowsrule30 on January 23, 2012, 02:14:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 23, 2012, 02:19:01 PM
Last year (2011) was a bad year to draw a muzzleloader permit because the general season and the permit season was the same day (Oct 1).
Post by: Kowsrule30 on January 23, 2012, 02:49:45 PM
The muzzleloader permits change each year, just due to which day October 1st falls on. This year general elk muzzleloader season will start October 6th (probably) which will give quality bull permit holders five days to hunt before the crowds show up.
Last year (2011) was a bad year to draw a muzzleloader permit because the general season and the permit season was the same day (Oct 1).
This is exactly why I think it's total bs..... It's never been that way for any other user group... This is why I ghost pointed last year.... No way in hell am I going in to a "quality" tag hunt with one day or less to hunt before general.... My Dad didn't even think about that.... He really regrets it..... He did eventually fill the tag with a rag six that we never saw before... Not the 390" monster we scouted all summer up until the day of the opener to be chased out by spike and cow hunters..... :twocents:
Post by: King Krok on January 23, 2012, 06:49:37 PM
Post by: elksnout on January 23, 2012, 07:52:41 PM
Post by: benhuntin on January 23, 2012, 07:57:48 PM
My brother had the obsevatory bull tag muzzle and there were guys everywhere but we still were able to work our way threw them and it turned ok Pretty good.The muzzleloader permits change each year, just due to which day October 1st falls on. This year general elk muzzleloader season will start October 6th (probably) which will give quality bull permit holders five days to hunt before the crowds show up.
Last year (2011) was a bad year to draw a muzzleloader permit because the general season and the permit season was the same day (Oct 1).
This is exactly why I think it's total bs..... It's never been that way for any other user group... This is why I ghost pointed last year.... No way in hell am I going in to a "quality" tag hunt with one day or less to hunt before general.... My Dad didn't even think about that.... He really regrets it..... He did eventually fill the tag with a rag six that we never saw before... Not the 390" monster we scouted all summer up until the day of the opener to be chased out by spike and cow hunters..... :twocents: