Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 05:17:51 AM
Post by: jyerxa on January 25, 2012, 05:22:53 AM
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 05:40:56 AM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on January 25, 2012, 05:44:07 AM
Post by: whacker1 on January 25, 2012, 05:44:56 AM
.223 pistol at 2000 + feet per second
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 06:37:16 AM
There are groups going after the SBR laws in hopes to get some changes made in this state but that will happen way down the road. Plus IF Obama gets re-elected you are going to want to have what you want by then and a few thousand rounds of ammo stashed somewhere, things might just get real ugly cause he'll have 4 more years and 6 more Czars willing to take away our guns.
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 06:53:04 AM
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 07:25:50 AM
I would prefer to go to the 16" threaded version so you could swap out the muzzle end device at a later time or remove it completely. The 14.5 inch barreled version is only for the Tacti-COOL crowd and makes zero improvement for maneuverability in or around your home since you are still dealing with 16" overall. I did a lot of training with an 18" barreled AR and there is no difference in handling. You get 16 inches of rifled bore which is velocity, not that you will need that much more for home but why give it up?
And why the need for 70+ grain bullets for 100 yards? The 55 grain soft points will do everything you need to do in and around your home. 62 grain Mil surplus will get the job done with ample room left over. There is no reason for a long range target stye bullet for anything under 300 yards and if you shoot a bad guy at 300 plus yards you will look like the aggressor. Look into ballistics of the 55 grain bullets from actual shootings, you will find it performs admirably.
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 07:32:14 AM
Okay, just to clarify....State laws says that you are required to have 16" minimum barrel length. If you have a 14" barrel or even a 10 inch barrel you still need to have an overall length of 16 inches with or without the brake. That is why the pinned muzzle end device is PINNED on, not easily removed with common tools.all good info,its a hundred yrds across my property,so that would be max,Im gonna agree on the 16inch barrel that makes good sense..Is there a preferred maker out there? I want to make the right descision the first time on a purchase..really appreciate the opinions and info
I would prefer to go to the 16" threaded version so you could swap out the muzzle end device at a later time or remove it completely. The 14.5 inch barreled version is only for the Tacti-COOL crowd and makes zero improvement for maneuverability in or around your home since you are still dealing with 16" overall. I did a lot of training with an 18" barreled AR and there is no difference in handling. You get 16 inches of rifled bore which is velocity, not that you will need that much more for home but why give it up?
And why the need for 70+ grain bullets for 100 yards? The 55 grain soft points will do everything you need to do in and around your home. 62 grain Mil surplus will get the job done with ample room left over. There is no reason for a long range target stye bullet for anything under 300 yards and if you shoot a bad guy at 300 plus yards you will look like the aggressor. Look into ballistics of the 55 grain bullets from actually shootings, you find it performs admirably.
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 07:49:01 AM
Okay, just to clarify....State laws says that you are required to have 16" minimum barrel length. If you have a 14" barrel or even a 10 inch barrel you still need to have an overall length of 16 inches with or without the brake. That is why the pinned muzzle end device is PINNED on, not easily removed with common tools.all good info,its a hundred yrds across my property,so that would be max,Im gonna agree on the 16inch barrel that makes good sense..Is there a preferred maker out there? I want to make the right descision the first time on a purchase..really appreciate the opinions and info
I would prefer to go to the 16" threaded version so you could swap out the muzzle end device at a later time or remove it completely. The 14.5 inch barreled version is only for the Tacti-COOL crowd and makes zero improvement for maneuverability in or around your home since you are still dealing with 16" overall. I did a lot of training with an 18" barreled AR and there is no difference in handling. You get 16 inches of rifled bore which is velocity, not that you will need that much more for home but why give it up?
And why the need for 70+ grain bullets for 100 yards? The 55 grain soft points will do everything you need to do in and around your home. 62 grain Mil surplus will get the job done with ample room left over. There is no reason for a long range target stye bullet for anything under 300 yards and if you shoot a bad guy at 300 plus yards you will look like the aggressor. Look into ballistics of the 55 grain bullets from actually shootings, you find it performs admirably.
Rasbo, I build mine and have used parts from all over the board, DPMS, Bushmaster, Oly Arms, etc. etc. I have never found any of them to be really bad, some just so so. Actually I have had very good luck with Model 1 Sales stuff, good parts at a reasonable price and very accurate to boot. They use Shaw barrels....well they used to anyway. You can also go with a Plum Crazy lower to make it as light as possible and any of the M4 uppers available from any source, local or otherwise. You could spend 600 bucks on just a barrel if you want to, but not really needed for home protection. Besides, if you shoot someone with it, the LEO are taking it away from you for a good long time so why tie up a bunch of money into a house gun?
My house gun cost me about 350 bucks to build not including the Eotech sight. :dunno: and it kills sheet really good.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 25, 2012, 07:51:59 AM
I have 5 ARs, of different makes, and they all work well. But then, the only life on the line is that of the critter I'm shooting at.
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 07:54:22 AM
Post by: Johnb317 on January 25, 2012, 08:07:18 AM
Short barreled 12 or 20 gauge would be more effective in 15 yard or less situations.
Less likely to send a round through your wall and into the neighboring house, and frankly the muzzle of a shotgun is
considerably more intimidating. If you use a pump anyone within ear shot of you racking in a round will most likely leave very quickly.
Also, (and hopefully this never happens) if you should find yourself in court a jury most likely
would look more favorably on a shotgun.
No where as sexy as a techy looking .223 though.
Just my :twocents:
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 08:08:27 AM
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 08:11:11 AM
Actually, if this is for 'home protection', and we aren't talking apocalypse... a 223 is the last thing I'd use.
Short barreled 12 or 20 gauge would be more effective in 15 yard or less situations.
Less likely to send a round through your wall and into the neighboring house, and frankly the muzzle of a shotgun is
considerably more intimidating. If you use a pump anyone within ear shot of you racking in a round will most likely leave very quickly.
Also, (and hopefully this never happens) if you should find yourself in court a jury most likely
would look more favorably on a shotgun.
No where as sexy as a techy looking .223 though.
Just my :twocents:
I agree with this, a rifle is not the best for home protection because of the ability of stray rounds to penetrate walls and connect with non intended people
Post by: JohnVH on January 25, 2012, 08:12:55 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 08:17:50 AM
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 08:29:26 AM
Post by: muzzlebuck on January 25, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 08:48:23 AM
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 08:50:11 AM
www.jprifles.com :drool: if your willing to spend the money.
How do you like your JP gun?
Post by: Hornseeker on January 25, 2012, 09:19:15 AM
A Dr. I know has several full auto guns and the firepower is completely ridiculous...
Post by: Hornseeker on January 25, 2012, 09:29:14 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 09:36:12 AM
Post by: 400out on January 25, 2012, 09:46:47 AM
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 09:52:29 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 09:55:22 AM
sounds like someone has been watching doomsday preppers :chuckle:yes!!LOL but I have always thought about one.all my guns are pump or bolt action,or double action..I do have a 10-22...I saw little buffs gun awhile back for varmits and liked it,but I really want a tactical weapon..I have always been a prepared person.Couldnt stand the feeling of total helplessness because I was arogant in my thinking about bad situation,and left standing there like a deer in the headlights
Post by: wraithen on January 25, 2012, 09:55:59 AM
Rasbo, just goad FALfire into building you one with the pieces you want. Bet him 3 cases of beer that he can't do it and see what he does with all the pieces :chuckle:
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 09:59:50 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 10:02:37 AM
Rasbo......That JP gun looks identical to one I built for a friend using other less expensive parts in 6.8SPC. It rocks even without the JP name on it for abut 1/2 the cost. The most expensive part was the JP V-Tac hand guard :chuckle:that's what this thread is about,learning..I wont be burning thousands of rounds,I will orientate myself with the gun until I'm comfortable,then shoot periodically..I'm ignorant on this type of weapon so,I'm not sure what or how to build one yet.I will research and follow the good advice..is there a store in the southsound that would be a great place to get some hands on experience?
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 10:02:45 AM
www.jprifles.com :drool: if your willing to spend the money.
How do you like your JP gun?
i have A jp upper, love the fit and finnish and side charging handle ( non reciprocating). all on a chrales daily t6 aluminum lower magpul ctr stock and other odd and end gadgets.
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 10:03:54 AM
Full auto sucks. It's only good for keeping heads down. Watch someone who doesn't shoot full auto a ton try and get a 3 round burst in one man sized target at 50 meters. Even with .223 its a pain. With a tricep strap and some practice I can get all three in one target. One in the left hip, one center massish, and one in the right shoulder.:chuckle:
Rasbo, just goad FALfire into building you one with the pieces you want. Bet him 3 cases of beer that he can't do it and see what he does with all the pieces :chuckle:
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 10:04:08 AM
man Im seeing some really cool guns,Im figuring 1500 to 1800 on a gun cement put up a link that has some in my price range,of course then I need some 30 round clips{dependable} and good ammo...looking at these guns is almost as good as sex :drool:
Go with the magpul p mag magazines, the troy battle mag isnt bad either
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 10:06:37 AM
http://www.surplusammo.com/complete-uppers/
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2012, 10:09:54 AM
Best of all its made here in this state!
Post by: CementFinisher on January 25, 2012, 10:11:50 AM
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 10:20:59 AM
Have you ever shot a AR with no flash hider at night. big difference! for around the house id be looking at as compact as possible. I like the smith & Wesson M&P's allot. Shot a number of them and they were awesome. Again brands are not a big deal, every manufacturer makes good and bad products and everone one of them can have failures. Don't get hung up on mil spec, its doest mean its better, unless you plan to add aftermarket thing to your rifle. I happen to be one of those that don't like Rock Rivers, those that i have owned or shot have left a lack luster imprecision on me.
Are you asking me if I have ever shot an AR at night without a FH.
Ohhhhhh, only for about 10 years, and in shooting houses using only a flashlight for total darkness scenarios. The noise is worse than the flash. If you use mil- surplus ammo then a FH is advised but commercial ammo in LEO offerings work way better if you don not have a flash suppressor. It's not like the average home owner will get into a hour long gun battle with bad guys at midnight so it's really a moot point.
I agree, mil-spec is not better, it's just that most stuff is built on mil-spec standard but certainly not the cats azz by any means. I have no problem using commercial sized parts as long as everything works without fail. Test your chit before using it or needing it, and I mean like 500 rounds minimum.
P-Mags are :tup: :tup:
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2012, 10:25:54 AM
Check this link out se see a REAL flash suppressor work on a HK146
Normal FS don't compare. I have seen these bad boys in person. When i get my AR its gona be the 1st acessory. :twocents:
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2012, 10:30:47 AM
wow the 249f rocks
Check this link out se see a REAL flash suppressor work on a HK146
Normal FS don't compare. I have seen these bad boys in person. When i get my AR its gona be the 1st acessory. :twocents:
Post by: FC on January 25, 2012, 10:36:50 AM
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 10:42:23 AM
You cant build a jp gun. Plain and simple. They are not a straight up ar. It is based on the ar plat form but leaveft it back in the dust. Or go the route i have most done with the black rifles and just build your own to what you want. As far as uppers and lowers dont get caught up in the name or the forged vs milled, go cheap and mill spec so everything will fit properly and so you cant attatch all the doo dads, spend your money on the enternals, trigger, nickle boron parts ie bolt and carrier group, chrom lined barrel ( from white oak), a quality stock with good lock up, maybe adjustable cheek riser to accomodate optic.
Okay.............I have a JP gun that was built for me by John Paul for my patrol application, it is not any better than my Colt, nor is it any better than my DPMS's. It don't shoot any straighter, no faster, it don't run any cleaner, but it did cost a bunch more. So your cup don't hold juice. I've run lots of AR's over many years during my LEO career and working the range almost daily for a couple of years I got to see what worked. JP builds a nice gun no doubt, but for a price, and for the price, he can get a lot of ammo to go with his purchase for the same cost involved in a JP gun. I've put 10's of thousands of rounds thru AR's over a bunch of years and found that the only ones that don't work very well are the ones that people screw with trying to improve this or that. The heart of the AR is the barrel and trigger for accuracy, smooth running quality parts that go forth and aft and learn to use it, you will be just as effective in a simplified scenario as the next guy. Now if you are talking about a high dollar 3 gun event that will place you in the top 3 Nationwide, then you will want to look at some options, otherwise keep it simple, use what works and enjoy your new toy. I build most all of my guns and I don't have a problems with them failing other than a problematic mag that I threw away a few years ago. Now I run P-Mags, don't seem to have issues these days.
Post by: FALFire on January 25, 2012, 10:48:45 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 25, 2012, 11:55:34 AM
Another .223 I really like is the SteyrAug556. Only thing I don't seem to like about it is with hot reloads, sometimes powder from the muzzle blast starts hitting my hand.
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on January 25, 2012, 09:31:02 PM
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Post by: Bofire on January 26, 2012, 05:53:34 PM
Did I sday I love being retired??
:chuckle: Carl
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 26, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
This is what you need. 8)
I love that guy.
Post by: marlin on January 27, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
Post by: Miles on January 27, 2012, 02:08:47 AM
It don't shoot any straighter, no faster, it don't run any cleaner, but it did cost a bunch more. So your cup don't hold juice.
I believe the word you are looking for is: doesn't.
Don't = Do not
Doesn't = Does not.
No disrespect intended. Your post was just hard to read.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 27, 2012, 03:09:38 AM
Unless I lived way, way out there I wouldn't be using an AR inside. That's the kind of round that might kill a neighbor several walls away.. Plus I remember my M16 having a pretty sharp bark :chuckle:
Hi-Cap 9mm with high quality ammo and a 12ga for me.
Post by: wraithen on January 27, 2012, 05:16:13 AM
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 10:59:07 AM
9m will penetrate more walls than .223. :yike:
That has been proven but only with specific ammo, buckshot also penetrated further in that test.
Post by: Huntboy on January 27, 2012, 11:08:05 AM
Post by: MichaelJ on January 27, 2012, 11:32:06 AM
For the cats meow in AR uppers/lowers check out Seekins Precision. Their new rails are awesome as well! Will also be setup as a dealer for them... PM me if you want more info.
Mike