Post by: Brianshounds on January 29, 2012, 09:47:24 AM
washington has well over 150 wolves now.
150 wolves x 11 pounds of meat every day = 1650 pounds every day
1650 pounds per day x 365 days in a year = 602,250 pounds of meat every year for 150 wolves
602,250 pounds per year / 450 pounds ( an average ELK ) = 1338.333 Elk per year
Post by: boonerboy on January 29, 2012, 09:54:58 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 29, 2012, 09:56:19 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 29, 2012, 10:04:54 AM
SCARY AS HELL isnt it?? :bash:
:yeah:
Post by: Brianshounds on January 29, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 29, 2012, 10:21:04 AM
Post by: duckmen1 on January 29, 2012, 10:46:33 AM
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
Post by: NWBREW on January 29, 2012, 11:03:16 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on January 29, 2012, 11:18:01 AM
Wolves have 4-6 pups a year and can have two litters a year. And not only the Alpha breed some other females in a pack may give birth.
Some sites say they will have can have up to 11 pups.
How much they eat is all over the map from 5lbs per wolf everyday to 22.5 lbs.
Post by: Brianshounds on January 29, 2012, 11:29:42 AM
The pack of five i was hunting killed a cow elk the night before i hunted, i found it that morning they where on it for two nights and then the same pack killed a differnt cow elk, they cleaned it up in two nights and then they killed the mule deer. thats at least 1000 pounds of meat in five nights.
Post by: fethrduster on January 29, 2012, 11:48:56 AM
i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
You can't make blanket statements like that. I live in Tacoma, and I know that wolves kill a lot of game, viciously. So what, that's not exactly a newsflash. They are part of the ecosystem and always have been. So are we. We need to just man up and deal with it intelligenty instead of irrationally viewing wolves as evil and trying to exterminate every one we see. I just don't understand all the over-reaction, especially by hunters. We should know better and keep our cool. Sensational and stupid movies like "The Grey" don't help, either.
Post by: buckfvr on January 29, 2012, 11:56:58 AM
Post by: Brianshounds on January 29, 2012, 11:58:26 AM
Post by: sebek556 on January 29, 2012, 12:04:05 PM
Whats you problem with a movie showing wolves exactly the way wolf heaven and biologist claim they are? Only killing sick or injured prey. These guys were in a plane crash, so to me they fit that category. :tup: and newsflash they have not always been a part of the ecosystem, they have been absent for 100 years and the ecosystem was doing just fine with out them.
You can't make blanket statements like that. I live in Tacoma, and I know that wolves kill a lot of game, viciously. So what, that's not exactly a newsflash. They are part of the ecosystem and always have been. So are we. We need to just man up and deal with it intelligenty instead of irrationally viewing wolves as evil and trying to exterminate every one we see. I just don't understand all the over-reaction, especially by hunters. We should know better and keep our cool. Sensational and stupid movies like "The Grey" don't help, either.
Post by: high country on January 29, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Post by: buckfvr on January 29, 2012, 12:16:19 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 29, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 29, 2012, 12:19:41 PM
150 wolves x 17 elk = 2550 elk per year
or
150 wolves x 44 deer = 6600 deer per year
After reproduction this spring, we will have a lot more wolves. :yike:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 29, 2012, 12:23:44 PM
Post by: high country on January 29, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 29, 2012, 12:36:20 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 29, 2012, 12:38:51 PM
150 wolves x 23.5 elk = 3525 elk per year
Although the average wlf population growth in Idaho is thought to be 20% to 24%, some wolf populations grow 50% or more in a year, this is not looking good.
(that photo was taken in the arctic, but there are some known large packs in ID/MT)
Post by: 3nails on January 29, 2012, 12:43:41 PM
You are correct. Wolves are not evil. Guns are not evil either. But either one can be used to accomplish an evil objective. Wolves are the current (and best so far) tool of the antis' to eliminate hunting and then to eliminate gun ownership. The far left truly believes people to be parasites on this planet and need to be controlled by stripping our freedoms. This can only be accomplished after we have been dis-armed and are unable to defend ourselves. There is SO much more going on with this than just animals.i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
You can't make blanket statements like that. I live in Tacoma, and I know that wolves kill a lot of game, viciously. So what, that's not exactly a newsflash. They are part of the ecosystem and always have been. So are we. We need to just man up and deal with it intelligenty instead of irrationally viewing wolves as evil and trying to exterminate every one we see. I just don't understand all the over-reaction, especially by hunters. We should know better and keep our cool. Sensational and stupid movies like "The Grey" don't help, either.
Post by: buckfvr on January 29, 2012, 01:10:10 PM
:yeah:You are correct. Wolves are not evil. Guns are not evil either. But either one can be used to accomplish an evil objective. Wolves are the current (and best so far) tool of the antis' to eliminate hunting and then to eliminate gun ownership. The far left truly believes people to be parasites on this planet and need to be controlled by stripping our freedoms. This can only be accomplished after we have been dis-armed and are unable to defend ourselves. There is SO much more going on with this than just animals.i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
You can't make blanket statements like that. I live in Tacoma, and I know that wolves kill a lot of game, viciously. So what, that's not exactly a newsflash. They are part of the ecosystem and always have been. So are we. We need to just man up and deal with it intelligenty instead of irrationally viewing wolves as evil and trying to exterminate every one we see. I just don't understand all the over-reaction, especially by hunters. We should know better and keep our cool. Sensational and stupid movies like "The Grey" don't help, either.
This last quote is the truth......it is correct in every aspect, but ignored by those who for some ungodly reason cant see beyond one event at a time.
Post by: seth30 on January 29, 2012, 01:26:43 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 29, 2012, 01:39:11 PM
Once an elk population has been severely diminished like it has in the Lolo herd, the wolves will still need 11 pounds of meat, but it will come from fewer and fewer elk. Deer, livestock, pets: whatever is easiest will be the food of choice.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 29, 2012, 03:10:12 PM
Post by: stuckalot on January 29, 2012, 06:51:43 PM
Sounds like we better stop hunting in these areas altogether to make sure they have enough to survive on. :bash:
That will come up for serious discussion by some... Mark my words!
Post by: christopheri on January 29, 2012, 07:04:03 PM
Sounds like we better stop hunting in these areas altogether to make sure they have enough to survive on. :bash:
That will come up for serious discussion by some... Mark my words!
Im sure it already has become discussion by some. The plan is already in motion im sure. Do I have any proof of this? No but it would seem to be the next logical move for the anti hunting community. >:(
Post by: sebek556 on January 29, 2012, 07:13:27 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 10:17:22 PM
Post by: bigmacc on January 24, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
Post by: Skillet on January 24, 2014, 04:47:20 PM
Post by: deaner on January 24, 2014, 04:50:28 PM
Just curious - where is this 11#/wolf/day number coming from? That just seems like an insane amount of food for even a large male. I did a quick web search and came up with 2.5#/day to sustain weight to 7#/day to breed successfully. But, those numbers weren't linked to a study either. :dunno:
i could easily see 2.5 lbs being adequate for an animal that lays around in the zoo all day. a wild animal running up and down nasty terrain chasing and taking down elk would need a LOT more food.
Post by: Skillet on January 24, 2014, 04:58:03 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 24, 2014, 05:11:14 PM
Post by: snowpack on January 24, 2014, 05:23:45 PM
If they eat all does, then they raise the buck to doe ratio. So during the rut the bucks travel more to find available does (more energy expended) and fight more with other bucks increasing odds of being injured and using even more energy when fighting. Thus leading to even more bucks disappearing too.
Post by: Dan-o on January 24, 2014, 05:30:11 PM
Post by: RB on January 24, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 24, 2014, 06:45:30 PM
Post by: villageidiot on January 24, 2014, 06:59:36 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 24, 2014, 07:23:33 PM
Quick! everyone head to the huckleberry unit for all your small game hunting.
Post by: deaner on January 24, 2014, 07:24:52 PM
:yeah:
Quick! everyone head to the huckleberry unit for all your small game hunting.
no i live in huckleberry, but hunt and observe small game exclusively in the wedge
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 24, 2014, 07:34:02 PM
I,ve heard or seen in print that wolves and killer whales are the only animals on the planet that actually "thrill kill", so they are not only killing to survive on all that poundage of elk,deer,etc, but alot more of those animals are being killed for...well... just for killing,s sake :dunno:..What a disaster this will be if left unchecked.
You left out house cats, Feral and otherwise--It has been proven that they are devastating to wildlife. Birds, snakes, lizards, anything that moves! :bash:
Post by: KFhunter on January 24, 2014, 07:37:39 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 25, 2014, 05:46:36 AM
Let's go with the lower number, the current minimum wolf count estimated at an average of 600 wolves per state. If Washington reaches 600 wolves they would likely eat 10,200 elk or 26,400 deer or most likely a mixture of both species plus who knows how many moose. Washington Hunters currently harvest an average of 8,000 elk and 38,000 deer (page 78, page 83 of wolf plan) and roughly 100 moose in all areas of Washington.
With 150 wolves it is easy to see that human harvest will need to be reduced. If wolves overpopulate as they have done in the other states, it is very easy to see that there may not be enough elk and deer to allow hunting seasons and at the very least hunting seasons will have to be greatly reduced as they have in many areas of ID/MT.
WA Wolf Plan: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00001/wdfw00001.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00001/wdfw00001.pdf)
Quote
The rates at which wolves kill and consume prey are highly variable with respect to time of year and
species taken. Both rates (usually expressed as biomass per wolf per day) have been investigated in
many North American studies and average about 7.2 kg/wolf/day for kill rate (winter only; Mech
and Peterson 2003) and 5.4 kg/wolf/day for consumption rate (winter only; Peterson and Ciucci
2003). The figure for kill rate roughly corresponds to about one 150-kg elk killed per 21 days per
wolf (or 17 elk per wolf per year) or one 60-kg deer killed per 8.3 days per wolf (or 44 deer per wolf
per year).
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 25, 2014, 05:58:44 AM
Post by: Skillet on January 25, 2014, 06:00:08 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 25, 2014, 06:03:31 AM
Thousands of MT hunters annually hunted the Yellowstone migration herds every winter. Those hunts have been completely eliminated because the Northern Yellowstone elk herd has dropped from nearly 20,000 to about 4,000 elk. In the Lolo zone of Idaho the herd dropped from nearly 20,000 to less than 2,000 elk. Much of that hunting opportunity is gone. Seasons in many other areas have been reduced to compensate for high predation.
Post by: rasbo on January 25, 2014, 06:13:54 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 25, 2014, 06:36:31 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 25, 2014, 07:03:29 AM
Seems like were back to SSS? Is the states goal 150 or 150 breeding pairs?
WDFW's goal is 15 confirmed Breeding Pairs for 3 consecutive years. WDFW estimated that this would figure out to approx. 150 documented wolves on the ground.
However, I think the hiring practices that WDFW is using for acquiring inexperienced wolf trappers who are not catching many wolves that we all know are out there combined with the prior experiences seen in the other states dictates that we'll end up with at least 600 wolves in the end and very possibly many more than that.
Post by: danderson on January 25, 2014, 07:31:13 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 25, 2014, 07:59:00 AM
WDFW's goal is 15 confirmed Breeding Pairs for 3 consecutive years. WDFW estimated that this would figure out to approx. 150 documented wolves on the ground.
However, I think the hiring practices that WDFW is using for acquiring inexperienced wolf trappers who are not catching many wolves that we all know are out there combined with the prior experiences seen in the other states dictates that we'll end up with at least 600 wolves in the end and very possibly many more than that.
That's a 400% increase over goal. I think you're right tho.
Post by: AspenBud on January 25, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
I think you greatly misjudge how people would react. A lot of huggers buy into "the cycle of life" view.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 25, 2014, 08:50:32 PM
Post by: deaner on January 25, 2014, 08:53:38 PM
i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
I think you greatly misjudge how people would react. A lot of huggers buy into "the cycle of life" view.
yeah they do, but the "cycle of life" that they have preached to them, and they fully believe, is that the wolves only kill what they can eat, and then only sick injured unfit animals. they dont believe that wolves sport kill, and kill healthy animals. they believe there are giant herds of limping old unhealthy deer and elk walking around that the wolves and other predators sparingly take food from on an as needed basis.
Post by: AspenBud on January 25, 2014, 09:49:15 PM
i think some of these Seattle people should see these style pictures to see what wolves are all about.
after looking over a state survey these people seem more afraid of having coyotes around than wolves.
doesn't make since to me. they need to do a story on the news about this to spread the word of what wolves are really like. that might change some opinions.
I think you greatly misjudge how people would react. A lot of huggers buy into "the cycle of life" view.
yeah they do, but the "cycle of life" that they have preached to them, and they fully believe, is that the wolves only kill what they can eat, and then only sick injured unfit animals. they dont believe that wolves sport kill, and kill healthy animals. they believe there are giant herds of limping old unhealthy deer and elk walking around that the wolves and other predators sparingly take food from on an as needed basis.
Do you honestly think they care? The mindset these days is to be hands off. They'll watch a deer get killed, think it's cool, and go home and sleep well at night.
Seriously, people watch nature shows and get fascinated watching prey animals get killed by wolves or any other predator. You might cry over dead elk or deer or wastage, but they will not. The Super Bowl on the other hand...
Post by: AspenBud on January 25, 2014, 09:50:26 PM
They need to go hiking in wolf country then.
With a dog.
Post by: deaner on January 25, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
They need to go hiking in wolf country then.
With a dog.
just not a GSP right?
Post by: Smossy on January 25, 2014, 10:05:22 PM
I received this photo just the other day. They claim it is from Idaho. :dunno: How many deer do you think it would take to feed them for just one day? I don't think just one would do it.So in this photo alone, That would make up 1/6th of WASHINGTON's population :bash:
They really need to get an open season going with baiting allowed :tup:
Post by: AspenBud on January 25, 2014, 10:17:19 PM
I received this photo just the other day. They claim it is from Idaho. :dunno: How many deer do you think it would take to feed them for just one day? I don't think just one would do it.
Alberta, not that it makes it more comforting.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005139659#.UuSoYGzTnIU (http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005139659#.UuSoYGzTnIU)
Post by: sagewalker on February 04, 2014, 05:17:15 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 04, 2014, 09:19:13 PM
I received this photo just the other day. They claim it is from Idaho. :dunno: How many deer do you think it would take to feed them for just one day? I don't think just one would do it.
Alberta, not that it makes it more comforting.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005139659#.UuSoYGzTnIU (http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005139659#.UuSoYGzTnIU)
I've watched that series and seen that pack on their video. It's a pretty good watch!
Post by: irishevox on February 04, 2014, 09:38:31 PM