Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 01:28:07 PM
I wasn't very impressed with the first 5 @100 yards, but I did consider the fact I only have 65 rounds on the barrel and it had just finished being broke in. It had just received a thorough cleaning with Sweets.
After the 100 yard group I made a windage adjustment, let the barrel cool. Fired my first round at 300 without making a elevation adjustment, to check my real world drop. Figured I would be about 6" low. The first round went in 7 1/2" low. Made a elevation adjustment and fired my last 4. I think I can tighten it up if I play with the charge a bit. I'll try "Jumping" it a bit and see what that does, for the time being I'll load some more up and go get my zero dead on, didn't have enough loaded up to be making windage adjustments. I just wanted to see if they would group.
Odd that the 100 yards group is about the same as the 300 yards group but being a new barrel and being clean it probably took a few for it to settle down. I don't know the barrel well enough yet.
7mm WSM case with a Matrix 190gr VDL under it and then a Hornady 162gr Interlock.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1283.jpg&hash=951b86e5a3fbc17c8e75c4bf81fb6f96bde369ff)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1279.jpg&hash=a11cbe7628c47d34575a9965d30a4821daa496d1)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1282.jpg&hash=4a4fc13c49999849fe0e9c801382a5a1948f3042)
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 09, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
what kind of velocity are you getting?
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 04:48:25 PM
Post by: jjhunter on February 09, 2012, 06:09:29 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
I know I can get a bit more speed with the Cauterucio 177gr VLD's, i just need to load some up along with some of Bob's 189's. The accuracy node on most of the 177gr plus bullets with the 7mm WSM cartridge is between 2950-3050. That's where the world class competitors have been running them.
http://www.austargets.com/matrix190.htm
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 07:08:58 PM
I'm getting 2860 with 66 grns of H1000 behind a 168 berger and Federal 215 match primers. Single digit ES and extremely accurate out of a 26" Krieger. Wanted more velocity, but ran into pressure signs. Used a short throated reamer so I could jam and still fit the box mag. I'll just grab another minute..... :chuckle:
Where do your Bergers prefer to be seated? I know some chambers like them jammed, but alone with that sometimes comes strange flyers. Some like at least .020 jump. What has worked for you? Have you tried it both ways?
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on February 09, 2012, 07:21:40 PM
-Steve
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 08:11:21 PM
What is the case concentricity/runnout at the neck resized and loaded? What is the runnout at the ogive of your loaded rounds?
-Steve
I haven't had time to take it that far yet. When I get real Frikn serious and take the time to neck down some of my Norma .300 WSM brass and turn the necks. I'll let you know, I need to go to a vertical grip stock and have it bedded first. I won't even waste my time with precision loads and custom bullets(Matrix, JLK, Cauterucio)under 600 yards, for load development. I'll make sure they'll in my twist and then it's out to 600 yards. They don't give those bullets away. All of them are 60.00 a box(100) shipped.
Many rifles I have had that group well at 600 or a 1000 yards. Shoot groups at 100 and 200 that are very misleading.
Post by: high country on February 09, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 09:00:10 PM
Some of those long a55 bullets take a bit to settle down if everything is not bang on perfect. I would jump them a bit and see if it improves.
I loaded some up this evening, 5 each. + .010 Jammed. Jumped - .010, - .020, -.030.
I'll shoot the four groups tomorrow at 300 yards. I like to start into the lands, but most often than not. It can cause a weird accessional "Flyer" issue. I know guess that are jumping the 189 Cauterucio .040 thou.
Post by: high country on February 09, 2012, 09:03:07 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 09:32:15 PM
Post by: high country on February 09, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz16%2Fgyonemura%2FIMAG0093.jpg&hash=67480e1d5b4d83ebecc26af1a955be1844a9d2e6)
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 09, 2012, 11:16:20 PM
Post by: high country on February 10, 2012, 07:20:22 AM
I guess that was a long drawn out answer to a simple question....lol
Post by: jjhunter on February 10, 2012, 08:30:50 AM
I'm getting 2860 with 66 grns of H1000 behind a 168 berger and Federal 215 match primers. Single digit ES and extremely accurate out of a 26" Krieger. Wanted more velocity, but ran into pressure signs. Used a short throated reamer so I could jam and still fit the box mag. I'll just grab another minute..... :chuckle:
Where do your Bergers prefer to be seated? I know some chambers like them jammed, but alone with that sometimes comes strange flyers. Some like at least .020 jump. What has worked for you? Have you tried it both ways?
I jammed them .02 and started at 63 grns and worked my way up 67 grns. Shot every charge very good between 63 and 67 grns. At 67, the bolt was a little too sticky for my liking. I backed off a grain and chrono'd. I was disappointed with 2860 fps, but with groups hovering in the .3s and single digit ES, I figured that I would stop while ahead.
I threw a #4 Kreiger on a Kimber Montana and bedded, so it is a little pencil barreled thing. Shoots better than I thought it would. Killed two mule deer bucks and a bunch of 'yotes this year and drops them like Thor's hammer!
Post by: rbros on February 10, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
like I mentioned earlier, I currently am trying to get all the licensing with the county dialed in....it sounds like we are all on the same page now. I am doing bedding work as well as lots of other stuff, but until the licensing headache is completed I am stuck with same day service stuff. I am whipping up some mini barrels and threaded caps to distribute to a few shops around here to show the type of work that will be coming out of our shop. they all seem to be happy to see a machine shop type smith here instead of parts changers. its a slow transition for me since its is all being done out of pocket and all my tooling is being paid for in cash, and I am sure travis and any others will agree, that number seems to grow expotentially every day. I shook hands on a stock duplicator last week with a retired smith and as soon as he can have it ready to ship...I am going to try my hand at wood. I have always wanted to build guild quality wood/blued pre 64's and mausers, but the stock work has been too expensive...but, if I can pay myself $.25 an hour.....
I guess that was a long drawn out answer to a simple question....lol
It gets worse my friend. Tooling is expensive as hell and its a never ending purchasing cycle. I have around $10k in chamber reamers now alone. Lathes, mills, blasting/painting setups, its all adds up very quickly. Especially when you are paying for everything in cash!
FWI, I was running the 180's .010" off the lands with 69gr of H1000 to get 3000fps in a 26" barrel. This is about the top end for sure. My brother is running 162's at 3200 in a 26" barrel using H4831SC. This is real data based off actual drops out to 1500yds. I have not played with the 7mm Matrix bullets yet, but the 6mm's were almost identical to the Berger version BC wise. I have some 7's in the shop, just haven't had time to play with them yet. Will run them through my new 7mm Wildcat when its finished up. It should push them at the 3150-3175 range.
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 10, 2012, 10:11:57 AM
Post by: MDGrand on February 10, 2012, 11:14:53 AM
I loaded up some 210 VLDs for my 300 RUM and from everything I have ready, they have a static BC of 0.7525... which is "static"... this means what exactly? That this is the BC in a vacuum, not the BC out of a barrel?
Also.. they seemed to have just ripped off Berger.. using the same ogive and J4 jackets... are these just really Berger 210 VLD clones? What is the real difference here?
Thanks!
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 10, 2012, 01:40:31 PM
So it may matter to some or not at all, when you open a box of Matrix or Cauterucio bullets they all were hand made through one die. When you open that box off Bergers you have bullets off multiple dies in one box. Does that matter with the average shooter with a factory barrel. Most often than not NO. due the fact the average shooter with a factory rifle in hand, is not capable of driving the bullet to it's accuracy potential. For the guy who has 3-6 K wrapped up in a complete custom fine tuned package and is very capable of slapping the trigger. Yes , it matters.
By the Bob Cauterucio purchases his jackets straight from Sierra, obviously Sierra doesn't feel ripped off.
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 10, 2012, 09:15:07 PM
Scrubbed the bore good and shot, the remaining singles from each load into a 100 yard target and left.
This is the best group of the day at 300 yards with the 190 Matrix jammed .010. Came in at just under 5/8"
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-70.jpg&hash=15b8b401d841082fe44a3d890471539c026a1577)
Waiting for the fog to clear, couldn't even see the 200 and 300 yard boards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-71.jpg&hash=17e1f138b5b474e0f201c8a1d79342703c255763)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 10, 2012, 11:48:50 PM
Post by: high country on February 11, 2012, 07:23:28 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 11, 2012, 10:41:03 AM
not too shabby at all for a non bedded rig in those conditions.
It's going to sit for a little while now, I pulled the barreled action and sold that HS-Stock. The Pacific Tool And Gauge detachable mag bottom metal form the long action should be out any day. As soon as I get it, I'll send the stock, it and the barreled action off to be bedded. Then run the AICS Lapua mags, I also think I'll have them cut the throat out a bit more .030 or so.
Post by: rbros on February 11, 2012, 05:52:48 PM
This based off your drops or your bro with a short plumber holding the dumb end of the tape? :o
The 180's are based on my drops......the 162's are based off his. I know when we shot it in Montana out to 1k, it matched up also to 3200. Plumbers can't read tapes...you should know that!
Post by: Wazukie on February 11, 2012, 06:23:55 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 11, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
This based off your drops or your bro with a short plumber holding the dumb end of the tape? :o
The 180's are based on my drops......the 162's are based off his. I know when we shot it in Montana out to 1k, it matched up also to 3200. Plumbers can't read tapes...you should know that!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: