Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47
More good reading. http://dongasaway.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/a-deer-coyote-study/
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/how-coyotes-affect-deer-herds/
Post by: Kowsrule30 on February 18, 2012, 10:31:46 AM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 11:00:02 AM
Yote season is still open.... Better get some down before they start dropping fawns....I took 13 out of my field a year ago. They don't like to hang around here anymore. I do have some hunters coming up Monday to do some calling.
Post by: Kowsrule30 on February 18, 2012, 01:00:01 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 03:47:22 PM
I am hoping to remove 20 yotes between now and May where I hunt for blacktails on the coast. A lot of big dogs have been showing up and need to be delt with.Any number removed will help. Coyotes are rough on our game and nesting game birds. As for dogs, they can be a real problem too. I live right on the Idaho border. A few years ago there were quit a few dogs chasing deer around here. I called both WDFW and IDF&G. Neither agency did anything other than tell me I couldn't or better not shoot them. I don't see many dogs running or roaming free this year. That would be consistent with wolves being spotted here.
Post by: buckfvr on February 18, 2012, 03:52:23 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 18, 2012, 04:17:56 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 04:28:40 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 04:35:47 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 18, 2012, 04:58:38 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 18, 2012, 05:04:53 PM
I believe it is the 10/110 predator model. Just over $900.
Post by: bobcat on February 18, 2012, 05:07:12 PM
Elusivewildlife.com.........XLR 250 mounts atop your scope, guaranteed to light them up out to 250 yards....Your choice of lens colors, read some good reviews, found for about 140 bucks, which is less expensive than many of the others. Im thinking 6-24X50 with target turrets, and maybe 6.5 Creedmoor.....or something on those lines. A true long range heavy barrel coyote gun that can also handle whitetail out there on the next ridge.......
That's the same light I was looking at, and same website. Did a little research on predatormasters.com and that's the one that seems to be getting all the favorable reviews. I don't want to spend the money right now but by next winter I'll have one.
Post by: buckfvr on February 18, 2012, 05:12:41 PM
I have been considering the 6.5x284. It is making some pretty impressive 1000 yard groups at competitions. The BC of the 6.5 is about as good as you get. Savage makes a great gun chambered for that round. Accustock and Accutrigger.
I believe it is the 10/110 predator model. Just over $900.
Yep....thats at the top of my list.....little spooked by the reviews of barrel life on the 6.5X.284...seems they burn the throats pretty quickly. But, as usual, I will go back and forth on the specific chambering, but I think Im leaning towards the Creedmoor......in the 10 Predator Hunter Max 1 ....love that model.
Post by: buckfvr on February 18, 2012, 05:16:50 PM
Elusivewildlife.com.........XLR 250 mounts atop your scope, guaranteed to light them up out to 250 yards....Your choice of lens colors, read some good reviews, found for about 140 bucks, which is less expensive than many of the others. Im thinking 6-24X50 with target turrets, and maybe 6.5 Creedmoor.....or something on those lines. A true long range heavy barrel coyote gun that can also handle whitetail out there on the next ridge.......
That's the same light I was looking at, and same website. Did a little research on predatormasters.com and that's the one that seems to be getting all the favorable reviews. I don't want to spend the money right now but by next winter I'll have one.
I think I will have that light here in the next month, and mount it on my .243 that gets the coyote nod for now....I hope its as good as many say it is.....We get a middle of the night wake up call darn near every night.....I want to be able to light them up to thank them properly.... :chuckle:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 19, 2012, 07:02:36 PM
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47
Here's a couple quotes from this article.
"During the past 100 years, however, coyotes colonized North America's eastern corridor after gray wolves and red wolves were exterminated."
"That's because scientific research from eastern Canada to the southeastern U.S. shows coyote predation on fawns kill more deer than herds can replace in some areas."
This is what I've been saying about wolves helping deer populations. Wolves hit coyote populations hard. They don't tolerate competition from other canines. The fawns they save from coyotes will more than make up for the deer they kill themselves. Personally, I'd rather have a half dozen to a dozen wolves in an area than a thousand coyotes. Besides fawns, game bird populations would increase too.
This is the good that wolves can do that many refuse to accept.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 19, 2012, 07:25:16 PM
Thanks I needed a good laugh, havent had one like that in a long time!!!
Wolves helping deer fawns :chuckle: Now that's funny
Post by: buckfvr on February 19, 2012, 07:59:33 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 19, 2012, 08:28:43 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 19, 2012, 08:38:27 PM
However I'm not very optimistic at all when it comes to the chance of our elk and moose populations holding up with the additional predation of wolves added into the equation.
Post by: 3nails on February 19, 2012, 08:49:16 PM
I know it's hard to understand, but some day it may all make sense to you guys. ;)All I really know is what I see. In the Dworshack area of Idaho (an area with a large wolf poulation) coyote numbers have gone through the roof for some reason. Don't know why but the deer are getting hammered from both.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 19, 2012, 09:24:43 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 20, 2012, 04:09:38 AM
"The fawns they save from coyotes will more than make up for the deer they kill themselves."I have to agree with you on that one. How funny! :chuckle:
Thanks I needed a good laugh, havent had one like that in a long time!!!
Wolves helping deer fawns :chuckle: Now that's funny
Post by: jdurham on February 20, 2012, 04:45:01 AM
I am sure all the sportsman in Idaho agree with you sitka, They are kicking there hills up because the yote population is gone and the deer numbers are better then ever :rolleyes: You know how much meat your wolves take to survive? I know yotes very well and spent a lot of time around them and hunting them. They do not eat fawns and deer 24/7 like the wolf does. How many wolves will mouse out in my fields to feed themselves? How many will turn my sheep into a food source or my cattle? everyone given the chance. I knock the hell out of the yotes in my area and they are even getting harder to find. In the area that does not have cats. The deer numbers are very good and the yote population is lower. Throw wolves into the mix when there is no elk in my area and guess what is going to get ate 24/7! I would bet for every one deer a yote kills a wolf kills 50+ sorry your logic behind your thoughts has not been proven in any state that has wolves right now. Washington will not be any different then the others. Our moose sheep mtn goats elk deer and livestock will be the main food source for wolves not mice and birds like the yotes :tup: Nice try though :tup:I read an article several years ago written by a biologist from Montana. Wished I had saved it. He went on to say how even given ample wild game the wolf will soon learn that livestock is a more plentiful and easier prey. Just think how they will do given protection from their predator, man!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 20, 2012, 01:50:30 PM
Post by: rtspring on February 20, 2012, 01:54:15 PM
I got a BULL CHIT flag run all the way up the damn flag pole on this theory you got!!!
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2012, 02:02:32 PM
I'm going to borrow a geeenie term.... "footprint"
The overall "predator footprint" is so large that full scale predator control is needed to turn around many big game and gamebird populations. It is very simple, there will be less and less game animals or gamebuirds available for hunters to hunt. We have shorter seasons, there are fewer hunters, and success is dropping in many formerly outsatanding hunting areas.
The environmentalists are winning folks. :twocents:
Post by: Dhoey07 on February 20, 2012, 02:25:20 PM
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47
Here's a couple quotes from this article.
"During the past 100 years, however, coyotes colonized North America's eastern corridor after gray wolves and red wolves were exterminated."
"That's because scientific research from eastern Canada to the southeastern U.S. shows coyote predation on fawns kill more deer than herds can replace in some areas."
This is what I've been saying about wolves helping deer populations. Wolves hit coyote populations hard. They don't tolerate competition from other canines. The fawns they save from coyotes will more than make up for the deer they kill themselves. Personally, I'd rather have a half dozen to a dozen wolves in an area than a thousand coyotes. Besides fawns, game bird populations would increase too.
This is the good that wolves can do that many refuse to accept.
Don't you think that wolves would kill fawns before they turn to yotes? Seems to me that fawns would be an easier meal.
Post by: Special T on February 20, 2012, 02:40:20 PM
I have the scope mounted 100w one it will shine yotes out farther than i can see them. they say you can read abook about 600yards from the light. My bro in law has the hand held. Both are VERY bright. they are basically their offroad lights with different mounting hardware.
I remember reading/watching about midwest relationship between coyotes and deer. Lots of clubs go heavy on fruits that drop early to protect the deer. Dropped fruits substitute for deer killed. Since coyotes tend to fill any void where there is food, I'm unsure if fruit really helps save fawns, but i know it helps deer. :twocents:
Post by: jdurham on February 20, 2012, 02:56:38 PM
Yep! Hell at least when ever I lost any livestock to yotes "which has been very few over the years" I could go on a killing spree and thin them a little. With the wolves I would just get to sit and wait for tiny check for reimbursement! if!!! there was to even be funding for it. Then when they come back all I get to do is go collect another carcase or 2. Hell there has been packs in Montana that use to do killing sprees on livestock all the time. Get into a big flock of sheep and kill tons every night just for fun and the thrill of it. Shredded guard dogs and then go have a little fun killing with a full belly. Piss on the wolves being brought back we had a plenty healthy ecosystem without them here. There is a reason they were killed off because they are good for nothing! There is enough dang predators here already to take care of the "weak and old" haha my a$$. People always try to twist it into, oh they will help! What are they helping in any of the other states? is the fawn survival rate threw the roof? haha yeah right. Is the elk numbers booming? haha yeah right! Is the coyote population wiped out? hahaha yeah right. Is there no predation on livestock? hahahaha yeah right! Go try to pawn your wasted twisted info on some other people that don't have a brain. Not real sportsmen that understand the truth like we have on this site. :liar::tup: :tup:
Post by: PA BEN on February 20, 2012, 05:08:33 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 20, 2012, 08:06:46 PM
I live on the west side now. ever time i go home to hunt i see more and more coyotes, in 2008 i saw 12 in one pack. the bucks and all deer numbers has gone down. :bash:I used to pass on coyotes when I was hunting deer. Now I smoke everyone I see.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 21, 2012, 12:34:57 PM
sorry your logic behind your thoughts has not been proven in any state that has wolves right now.
Why is Prince of Wales Island near Ketchikan the premier Sitka Blacktail hunting location then? It is infested with wolves and black bears. Deer and salmon are the main source of food for those two species.
It is estimated that 300-350 wolves live on the island. I've seen estimates of 10,000, that's right ten thousand black bears live on the island. Prince of Wales is about 2/3 the size of the Olympic Peninsula. If the wolf haters were correct about how much damage wolves do to cervids (not to mention bears), there wouldn't be a deer on Prince of Wales. But of course reality doesn't always live up to wild speculation.
Another interesting fact is, on Prince of Wales Island, the biggest killer of deer fawns is black bears, not wolves, by a very large margin.
I understand the real concern about farm animal predation. People should be able to protect their property. And problem animals should be dealt with swiftly and fatally.
Post by: Dhoey07 on February 21, 2012, 12:38:08 PM
sorry your logic behind your thoughts has not been proven in any state that has wolves right now.
Why is Prince of Wales Island near Ketchikan the premier Sitka Blacktail hunting location then? It is infested with wolves and black bears. Deer and salmon are the main source of food for those two species.
It is estimated that 300-350 wolves live on the island. I've seen estimates of 10,000, that's right ten thousand black bears live on the island. Prince of Wales is about 2/3 the size of the Olympic Peninsula. If the wolf haters were correct about how much damage wolves do to cervids (not to mention bears), there wouldn't be a deer on Prince of Wales. But of course reality doesn't always live up to wild speculation.
Another interesting fact is, on Prince of Wales Island, the biggest killer of deer fawns is black bears, not wolves, by a very large margin.
I understand the real concern about farm animal predation. People should be able to protect their property. And problem animals should be dealt with swiftly and fatally.
Different habitat and different hunting pressure
Post by: Special T on February 21, 2012, 12:42:24 PM
I don't doubt that wolves kill for fun. Why? My brothers house cat is a killing machine, and it doesn't eat any mice. He just stacks them up by the door like cord wood.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 21, 2012, 01:05:16 PM
sorry your logic behind your thoughts has not been proven in any state that has wolves right now.
Why is Prince of Wales Island near Ketchikan the premier Sitka Blacktail hunting location then? It is infested with wolves and black bears. Deer and salmon are the main source of food for those two species.
It is estimated that 300-350 wolves live on the island. I've seen estimates of 10,000, that's right ten thousand black bears live on the island. Prince of Wales is about 2/3 the size of the Olympic Peninsula. If the wolf haters were correct about how much damage wolves do to cervids (not to mention bears), there wouldn't be a deer on Prince of Wales. But of course reality doesn't always live up to wild speculation.
Another interesting fact is, on Prince of Wales Island, the biggest killer of deer fawns is black bears, not wolves, by a very large margin.
I understand the real concern about farm animal predation. People should be able to protect their property. And problem animals should be dealt with swiftly and fatally.
Different habitat and different hunting pressure
Hey, carpsniper said my theory has never been proved out anywhere. I pointed out that it has. Every time I point out that wolves don't wipe out their prey, somebody says ohhh but that's different. I'll tell you the difference there, they get a heck of a lot more snow and that makes the deer more vulnerable. That should tip the balance to the predators even farther. But it doesn't.
You'd be surprised at the hunting pressure on POW. There are lots of roads and the limit is 4 deer per year.
Here's a couple of the local outfitters/guides
http://thornebaylodge.com/bear_hunting.html
http://thornebaylodge.com/deer_hunting.html
http://muskegexcursions.com/hunting/southeast_alaska_bear_hunting.htm
http://muskegexcursions.com/hunting/southeast_alaska_deer_hunting.htm
No shortage of deer there.
Post by: Special T on February 21, 2012, 01:16:22 PM
Would you be surprised to know that if you drink more than 8 cups of coffee a day you are 10x as likely to get in a serious car accident? That is a FACT! Now you say how can coffee kill you? Well i doubt it does. Alcoholics are HUGE consumers of coffee. As it turns out its the ALCOHOL that causes the accidents but one of the signs is large coffee consumption.
Correlation is MUCH easier to prove than Causation. Media and people like to think they are the same...
Post by: Dhoey07 on February 21, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 21, 2012, 04:25:28 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on February 22, 2012, 09:25:04 PM
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47
Here's a couple quotes from this article.
"During the past 100 years, however, coyotes colonized North America's eastern corridor after gray wolves and red wolves were exterminated."
"That's because scientific research from eastern Canada to the southeastern U.S. shows coyote predation on fawns kill more deer than herds can replace in some areas."
This is what I've been saying about wolves helping deer populations. Wolves hit coyote populations hard. They don't tolerate competition from other canines. The fawns they save from coyotes will more than make up for the deer they kill themselves. Personally, I'd rather have a half dozen to a dozen wolves in an area than a thousand coyotes. Besides fawns, game bird populations would increase too.
This is the good that wolves can do that many refuse to accept.
Sorry so late..... :chuckle: But you're joking right????!!!!!!! I sure hope so.... That's as close to comparing 1000 deer to half a dozen elk.... Minus the fact they don't eat each other.... POINTLESS!!!!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 22, 2012, 09:34:19 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 23, 2012, 03:58:58 AM
So the wolves will kill the coyotes and ignore the fawns. Now I understand NOT!http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47
Here's a couple quotes from this article.
"During the past 100 years, however, coyotes colonized North America's eastern corridor after gray wolves and red wolves were exterminated."
"That's because scientific research from eastern Canada to the southeastern U.S. shows coyote predation on fawns kill more deer than herds can replace in some areas."
This is what I've been saying about wolves helping deer populations. Wolves hit coyote populations hard. They don't tolerate competition from other canines. The fawns they save from coyotes will more than make up for the deer they kill themselves. Personally, I'd rather have a half dozen to a dozen wolves in an area than a thousand coyotes. Besides fawns, game bird populations would increase too.
This is the good that wolves can do that many refuse to accept.
Sorry so late..... :chuckle: But you're joking right????!!!!!!! I sure hope so.... That's as close to comparing 1000 deer to half a dozen elk.... Minus the fact they don't eat each other.... POINTLESS!!!!
Post by: PA BEN on February 23, 2012, 08:15:25 AM
You'd be surprised at the hunting pressure on POW. There are lots of roads and the limit is 4 deer per year.
You have never seen snow crust over????? The deer break through and can't out run a dog let alone a coyote or a wolf. They run up along side bite the belley and rip it open.
Post by: buckfvr on February 23, 2012, 01:20:53 PM
Post by: jdurham on February 23, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
Hey, carpsniper said my theory has never been proved out anywhere. I pointed out that it has. Every time I point out that wolves don't wipe out their prey, somebody says ohhh but that's different. I'll tell you the difference there, they get a heck of a lot more snow and that makes the deer more vulnerable. That should tip the balance to the predators even farther.[b] But it doesn't.[/b]
You'd be surprised at the hunting pressure on POW. There are lots of roads and the limit is 4 deer per year.
You have never seen snow crust over????? The deer break through and can't out run a dog let alone a coyote or a wolf. They run up along side bite the belley and rip it open.
So Pa Ben why are you so in favor of the non native Grey wolf being introduced to Washington?