Post by: Kain on March 25, 2012, 08:27:30 PM
Quote
DESCRIPTION OF INCIDENT
ON FEBRUARY 16TH 2012 I RECIEVED A COLD REPORT OF A POSSIBLE WOLF ATTACK ON A HUMAN. I RESPONDED THE SAME DAY AND CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH THE VICTIM AND NEIGHBORS. I WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THE CANID THAT ATTACKED THE VICTIM WAS A WILD GRAY WOLF. THE AREA HAS SEEN SHEEP AND DOG ATTACKS OVER THE LAST YEAR. MANY OF THESE REPORTED 'WOLF' ATTACKS WERE DETERMINED TO BE DOMESTIC DOG OR WOLF-HYBRIDS. THE VICTIM'S DOGS WERE SUSPECTED IN SOME OF THE ATTACKS, BUT THIS DOES NOT APPEAR TO POSSIBLE BASED ON THEIR AGE.
REPORT INFORMATION
Date/Time of Incident: February 16, 2012
Date of Report: February 10, 2012
Location: 100 BLOCK OF REEVAS BASIN ROAD
City: Tonasket
County: Okanogan
Game Management Unit: 204
Quote
DESCRIPTION OF INCIDENT
ON 01/31/2012 RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE RP. THE RP STATES HER VETERINARIAN TOLD HER THE INJURIES HER LARGE DOG SUFFERED FROM ON SUNDAY (APPROXIMATELY 1900) WERE CAUSED BY A WOLF; THE RP HAS MULTIPLE DOGS ABOUT THE SIZE OF A GREAT PYRENEES, AND THE DOG THAT WAS ALLEGEDLY ATTACKED BY A WOLF WAS A GREAT PYRENEES. THE RP ALSO SAYS HER VETERINARIAN TOLD HER THE SIZE OF THE WHOLE THAT WAS IN HER DOG WAS TOO FAR APART TO BE CAUSED BY A COUGAR AND TOO LARGE OF A BITE TO BE CAUSED BY A COYOTE. THE RP ALSO STATES BEFORE SHE FOUND OUT HER DOG WAS ATTACKED, ALL OF HER DOGS WERE ACTING ODDLY.
REPORT INFORMATION
Date/Time of Incident: January 29, 2012
Date of Report: January 31, 2012
Location: 1400 B HWY 20
City: Tonasket
County: Okanogan
Post by: JohnVH on March 25, 2012, 08:28:42 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 25, 2012, 08:36:16 PM
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 08:40:44 PM
Post by: Kain on March 25, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php?species=3&county=&year=2012
Post by: Kain on March 25, 2012, 08:43:22 PM
This is where I can easily tell you, hybrids attacks are insanely common. You have your wild genes clashing with he domestic genes, and that makes the animal unpredictible and usually irritable and nervous. It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid. A child running or screaming will trigger the prey instinct and alot of peple and children have died from hybrid attacks. i will definately be following this case to see the outcome.
Oh gawd not another thing you are an expert on. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: ICEMAN on March 25, 2012, 08:44:11 PM
This is where I can easily tell you, hybrids attacks are insanely common. You have your wild genes clashing with he domestic genes, and that makes the animal unpredictible and usually irritable and nervous. It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid. A child running or screaming will trigger the prey instinct and alot of peple and children have died from hybrid attacks. i will definately be following this case to see the outcome.:bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: ribka on March 25, 2012, 08:44:53 PM
Maybe the victim had the flu. Everyone knows wolves only kill the sick and injured.
This is where I can easily tell you, hybrids attacks are insanely common. You have your wild genes clashing with he domestic genes, and that makes the animal unpredictible and usually irritable and nervous. It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid. A child running or screaming will trigger the prey instinct and alot of peple and children have died from hybrid attacks. i will definately be following this case to see the outcome.
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 08:45:42 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 25, 2012, 08:46:50 PM
Post by: Kain on March 25, 2012, 08:47:05 PM
It's something I've had to study about. Alot of people out there think its a good idea to own a hybrid and people like me give them the facts to discourage them from doing so.
Yeah it's a clash between the two genes that makes them aggressive not JUST the wolf gene all by itself. Amazing that people believe this crap.
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 08:49:08 PM
As I've stated before, domestic dogs are far more people aggressive than wolves are. It's not either one gene thats the cause, it both of them mixing together. Your not getting a domesticated wolf with the animals. Hybrids are something that should have never existed.
There are wolf and wolf hybrid puppy mills in Washington and Idaho in area's where it is not illegal to do so. So yes, it is actually a huge problem.
Post by: Kain on March 25, 2012, 08:52:28 PM
Post by: SpringerFan on March 25, 2012, 08:54:39 PM
It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid.
Did you really type that? Sheesh.....the reason you are posting is so painfully obvious.
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 08:56:08 PM
Post by: ribka on March 25, 2012, 08:56:31 PM
Thanks for the unbiased info Humanure!!
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 09:03:44 PM
Post by: ribka on March 25, 2012, 09:08:07 PM
those puppy mill lab *censored*szu mixes are super dangerous!!!!!
How about that gal that was stalked and killed by wolves in Alaska last year while jogging?
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 09:11:21 PM
Post by: ribka on March 25, 2012, 09:18:51 PM
I worked in Russia in in the1990's . I saw what the wolves did there to the wildlife and I saw no Icelandic sheep in Russia. They were wiped out by the wolves.
What about it? It was a wolf-human predation. I never said that they don't happen. These are predators. She was a short woman, so they probably saw an easy kill.
Post by: 75johndeere on March 25, 2012, 09:20:43 PM
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Post by: seth30 on March 25, 2012, 09:23:56 PM
What about it? It was a wolf-human predation. I never said that they don't happen. These are predators. She was a short woman, so they probably saw an easy kill.
Post by: humanure on March 25, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
Let just shoot all of the "hybrid" wolfs then. Problem solved
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't be so ruthless. I would have them all sterilized and prohibite the deliberate breeding of wolves and dogs.
Post by: seth30 on March 25, 2012, 09:26:04 PM
This is where I can easily tell you, hybrids attacks are insanely common. You have your wild genes clashing with he domestic genes, and that makes the animal unpredictible and usually irritable and nervous. It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid. A child running or screaming will trigger the prey instinct and alot of peple and children have died from hybrid attacks. i will definately be following this case to see the outcome.
Post by: seth30 on March 25, 2012, 09:26:56 PM
Let just shoot all of the "hybrid" wolfs then. Problem solved
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
I would be so ruthless. I would have them all sterilized and prohibite the deliberate breeding of wolves and dogs.
Post by: 30.06 on March 25, 2012, 09:46:04 PM
Post by: Chukar on March 25, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
Skip the sterilization talk as I don't believe the trouble with "hybrids" resides in them having viable sex with us but that these "hybrids" are trying to eat humans.
And by "hybrids" I mean wolves.
Still awaiting those hunting shots promised. These posts of yours appropriate to your screen name.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 07:17:55 AM
Manure- your "gene clashing" theory is rediculous. Canines are canines...their genes are not clashing, they're acting like canines.
Post by: danderson on March 26, 2012, 07:25:38 AM
Post by: BIGINNER on March 26, 2012, 07:26:17 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 07:29:10 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 26, 2012, 08:15:00 AM
Yeh that
those puppy mill lab *censored*szu mixes are super dangerous!!!!!
How about that gal that was stalked and killed by wolves in Alaska last year while jogging?
The woman was a Finnish/German hybrid, therefor inviting the attack. Wolves naturally eliminate mixed breeds from the wild. And, she was probably sick because they only prey on the sick and injured.
Post by: grundy53 on March 26, 2012, 08:24:40 AM
Hybrid wolves tend not to last as a wild pack. They just can't survive like a true wild wolf can. There are surely a few around the state, but I don't think they're all that common.
If they are not that common why does the state blame most encounters/ livestock predation on them?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 08:32:20 AM
Good question. I don't know. To be honest, I don't know if they do blame many attacks on them. I'm sure more livetsock and poeple are attacked by dogs every year, but there's a lot more of them and they're in close proximity to livestock and people. I'm sure the WDFW sees quite a few BS cases of "wolf attacks" that were cuts from fences or dogs.Hybrid wolves tend not to last as a wild pack. They just can't survive like a true wild wolf can. There are surely a few around the state, but I don't think they're all that common.
If they are not that common why does the state blame most encounters/ livestock predation on them?
Post by: grundy53 on March 26, 2012, 08:35:41 AM
I agree. It just frustrates me because that's usually their first responce... "it was probably hybrids". They absolutely do not want to admit it could be wolves...Good question. I don't know. To be honest, I don't know if they do blame many attacks on them. I'm sure more livetsock and poeple are attacked by dogs every year, but there's a lot more of them and they're in close proximity to livestock and people. I'm sure the WDFW sees quite a few BS cases of "wolf attacks" that were cuts from fences or dogs.Hybrid wolves tend not to last as a wild pack. They just can't survive like a true wild wolf can. There are surely a few around the state, but I don't think they're all that common.If they are not that common why does the state blame most encounters/ livestock predation on them?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 08:49:52 AM
Post by: grundy53 on March 26, 2012, 08:57:12 AM
With all the wolf hysteria I suspect they're afaid of even mentioning the possibility. You know full well that if they said it was a possibility anyone in earshot would be at the coffee shop the next morning preaching it as gospel. Sad but true, people are crazy about wolves right now and the WDFW is smart not to open that conversation unless they're pretty sure it's a wolf depredation.
I would agree except they are doing the same thing with wolf sightings. Which is counter productive to getting them accurately counted. If I report a sighting they say it was probably a hybrid. Instead of sending someone to investigate and possibly confirm.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 09:02:39 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 26, 2012, 09:34:04 AM
Post by: docsven on March 26, 2012, 09:48:55 AM
Did i say wolves weren't aggressive? No.How do you think we ended up with domestic dogs if there were not supposed to be hybrids (you said that they never should have existed)? I have had a hybrid before. He was nothing like you describe.
As I've stated before, domestic dogs are far more people aggressive than wolves are. It's not either one gene thats the cause, it both of them mixing together. Your not getting a domesticated wolf with the animals. Hybrids are something that should have never existed.
There are wolf and wolf hybrid puppy mills in Washington and Idaho in area's where it is not illegal to do so. So yes, it is actually a huge problem.
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2012, 10:28:28 AM
Here's my experience at reporting a wolf sighting to WDFW:
A neighbor who lives 2 or 3 miles away heard a loud commotion in his backyard. He went out to see what was happening and wolves were circling his kennel of german shepards trying to attack them. He ran into the house and came back out, now there were five adult wolves trying to attack his german shepards, he was afraid the wolves were going to go over the top of the keenel fencing so he fired shots in the air to scare them off. As soon as he started shooting the wolves took off.
I went to school with this guy and he has lived in this area his entire life. His dad was a principal in our local scool system for years. He has seen deer, bear, cougar, moose, and countless coyotes on his property which is at the base of a large mountain area. I beleive everything the guy told me and there is no doubt in my mind that he saw 5 wolves or wolf hybrids. I asked him if I could report the incident and he agreed.
I notified WDFW and in a day or two recieved a less than pleasant phone call from the Region 1 manager, telling me they were coyotes before the investigation was even complete. He also went on to chew me out for copying the information to my legislators. I lost all respect for that man and will publicly tell him that to his face when I get the chance. For his superiors in Olympia, if you even care, his name is Steve Pozzanghera, I suggest you send him to a customer service class and tell him to show the public a little more respect.
I have spent a fair amount of time outdoors and have never seen or heard of 5 adult coyotes traveling together in the summer time, much less attacking german shepards who weight 3 to 4 times as much as most coyotes. I told that to Pozzanghera and he had no reply.
That is the current situation in WDFW, at least some of their personel have been covering up all the wolf sightings they can. Only due to the outcry of citizens and the transfer of wolf management to the wildlife management department is there finally some effort to document sightings.
I hope the lady in Tonasket has a much more pleasant experience with the WDFW. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2012, 10:32:30 AM
Post by: Special T on March 26, 2012, 10:58:07 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on March 26, 2012, 11:40:09 AM
Did i say wolves weren't aggressive? No.How do you think we ended up with domestic dogs if there were not supposed to be hybrids (you said that they never should have existed)? I have had a hybrid before. He was nothing like you describe.
As I've stated before, domestic dogs are far more people aggressive than wolves are. It's not either one gene thats the cause, it both of them mixing together. Your not getting a domesticated wolf with the animals. Hybrids are something that should have never existed.
There are wolf and wolf hybrid puppy mills in Washington and Idaho in area's where it is not illegal to do so. So yes, it is actually a huge problem.
I had a lot of relatives that had hybrids and they were some of the best watch dogs and friendly as heck if they were familiar with you. I noticed since the wolves have started to become evident in this State from an OFFICIAL stand point the price for "hybrid" pups has skyrocketed and they've started to increase in numbers in this area, I don't know about other areas? :dunno:
Sounds like assumptions and EDUCATED-GUESSES to me as far as the temperament of the animals. If they are all hybrids then why not allow for the culling of them then? :dunno:
Post by: DoubleJ on March 26, 2012, 11:54:47 AM
I didn't read all that was written just the first couple posts.
Here's my experience at reporting a wolf sighting to WDFW:
A neighbor who lives 2 or 3 miles away heard a loud commotion in his backyard. He went out to see what was happening and wolves were circling his kennel of german shepards trying to attack them. He ran into the house and came back out, now there were five adult wolves trying to attack his german shepards, he was afraid the wolves were going to go over the top of the keenel fencing so he fired shots in the air to scare them off. As soon as he started shooting the wolves took off.
I went to school with this guy and he has lived in this area his entire life. His dad was a principal in our local scool system for years. He has seen deer, bear, cougar, moose, and countless coyotes on his property which is at the base of a large mountain area. I beleive everything the guy told me and there is no doubt in my mind that he saw 5 wolves or wolf hybrids. I asked him if I could report the incident and he agreed.
I notified WDFW and in a day or two recieved a less than pleasant phone call from the Region 1 manager, telling me they were coyotes before the investigation was even complete. He also went on to chew me out for copying the information to my legislators. I lost all respect for that man and will publicly tell him that to his face when I get the chance. For his superiors in Olympia, if you even care, his name is Steve Pozzanghera, I suggest you send him to a customer service class and tell him to show the public a little more respect.
I have spent a fair amount of time outdoors and have never seen or heard of 5 adult coyotes traveling together in the summer time, much less attacking german shepards who weight 3 to 4 times as much as most coyotes. I told that to Pozzanghera and he had no reply.
That is the current situation in WDFW, at least some of their personel have been covering up all the wolf sightings they can. Only due to the outcry of citizens and the transfer of wolf management to the wildlife management department is there finally some effort to document sightings.
I hope the lady in Tonasket has a much more pleasant experience with the WDFW. :twocents:
Question for those in the know. You report wolf sightings on your property 3-4 times, with an incident like this, another time maybe it's tracks or a blurry trail cam pic, and they are sworn off as coyotes or hybrids everytime. The next time it happens, you say "F it" and shoot one or 2 of those Coyote/hybrids before the rest scatter. Then you call the authorities and they find out it was actually a wolf. Will you get into trouble?
Post by: Kain on March 26, 2012, 11:56:18 AM
Damned if they do, damned if they dont.
Post by: PlateauNDN on March 26, 2012, 01:48:42 PM
I didn't read all that was written just the first couple posts.
Here's my experience at reporting a wolf sighting to WDFW:
A neighbor who lives 2 or 3 miles away heard a loud commotion in his backyard. He went out to see what was happening and wolves were circling his kennel of german shepards trying to attack them. He ran into the house and came back out, now there were five adult wolves trying to attack his german shepards, he was afraid the wolves were going to go over the top of the keenel fencing so he fired shots in the air to scare them off. As soon as he started shooting the wolves took off.
I went to school with this guy and he has lived in this area his entire life. His dad was a principal in our local scool system for years. He has seen deer, bear, cougar, moose, and countless coyotes on his property which is at the base of a large mountain area. I beleive everything the guy told me and there is no doubt in my mind that he saw 5 wolves or wolf hybrids. I asked him if I could report the incident and he agreed.
I notified WDFW and in a day or two recieved a less than pleasant phone call from the Region 1 manager, telling me they were coyotes before the investigation was even complete. He also went on to chew me out for copying the information to my legislators. I lost all respect for that man and will publicly tell him that to his face when I get the chance. For his superiors in Olympia, if you even care, his name is Steve Pozzanghera, I suggest you send him to a customer service class and tell him to show the public a little more respect.
I have spent a fair amount of time outdoors and have never seen or heard of 5 adult coyotes traveling together in the summer time, much less attacking german shepards who weight 3 to 4 times as much as most coyotes. I told that to Pozzanghera and he had no reply.
That is the current situation in WDFW, at least some of their personel have been covering up all the wolf sightings they can. Only due to the outcry of citizens and the transfer of wolf management to the wildlife management department is there finally some effort to document sightings.
I hope the lady in Tonasket has a much more pleasant experience with the WDFW. :twocents:
Question for those in the know. You report wolf sightings on your property 3-4 times, with an incident like this, another time maybe it's tracks or a blurry trail cam pic, and they are sworn off as coyotes or hybrids everytime. The next time it happens, you say "F it" and shoot one or 2 of those Coyote/hybrids before the rest scatter. Then you call the authorities and they find out it was actually a wolf. Will you get into trouble? Very good question indeed.
Post by: Special T on March 26, 2012, 01:50:59 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on March 26, 2012, 02:23:39 PM
Post by: Special T on March 26, 2012, 02:27:40 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on March 26, 2012, 02:34:15 PM
Post by: docsven on March 26, 2012, 03:08:13 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
Post by: Feanix on March 26, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
Post by: humanure on March 26, 2012, 06:49:11 PM
Post by: Kain on March 26, 2012, 07:21:27 PM
Yes, there are situations with hybrids living a life without incidences, but it's 50% plus with the rates on non-incidental and incidental lives of hybrids.
You got a source for that?
Post by: humanure on March 26, 2012, 07:35:29 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 26, 2012, 10:45:04 PM
Haha- What...a source??? You mean you don't believe his statistics? I'll standby while he srounges around on google to find some shread of evidence to back a made up claim.Yes, there are situations with hybrids living a life without incidences, but it's 50% plus with the rates on non-incidental and incidental lives of hybrids.
You got a source for that?
Post by: Devinshoe on March 26, 2012, 11:22:09 PM
Post by: humanure on March 27, 2012, 04:59:24 AM
Post by: C-Money on March 27, 2012, 05:03:23 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 27, 2012, 05:27:32 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 27, 2012, 07:03:15 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on March 27, 2012, 08:09:37 PM
Why are we allowing this jackhole to hijack all of our threads? He's going on iggy in my profile now. If you don't know how to ignore someone, pm me.
Probably because we are unfortunately a bit more accommodating and accepting of other opinions and viewpoints. Ever try to go on an environmentalist or tree hugger website, they have no respect for you or your opinion and it is just a matter of a few minutes and you are axed.
Post by: JLS on March 27, 2012, 08:18:41 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on March 27, 2012, 08:23:10 PM
Post by: cohoho on March 27, 2012, 08:38:50 PM
almost any dog will instinctively chase someone if they run.
My Jack Russel will chase anything running down the street. He stops once he realizes it isn't a Squirrel... lol
I had a wolf hybrid growing up- all black mixed Belgium Shepard and Wolf, not sure the percentage or anything... He was the best darn dog ever. He would walk to school with us, hang out all day at the playground, kids feeding him chips, etc and walk home with us. He never growled, snipped at anyone, although I wouldn't have recommended anyone entering the house if we weren't home... Again best dog ever! Our whole family and every friend I still have contact with talks about that dog all the time. He was like the town masgot where I grew up in WV. He'd bring home raccoon, neighbor cats and groundhogs as a treat for us to view...
Post by: Special T on March 28, 2012, 10:09:25 AM
I think the best way to help people in general to understand may be a comparison to something westsiders can better understand. Growth management act, "Wetlands" property issues... I 'm sure there is something better, but some kind of comparison in necessary to get them to wake up. :twocents:
Post by: TheHunt on March 28, 2012, 10:18:35 AM
If so then we can start shooting them take a DNA sample and say it is a hybrid and we are good to go. Like that approach.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 28, 2012, 10:21:17 AM
It appears to me that the threads are being hijacked because you guys are allowing it. It's kind of like watching a bunch of guys gang up on the mouthy kid on the playground, except we're old enough to know better.
These are some good threads until the troll starts and gets the room sidetracked. It's why I ignore. Unfortunately, the rest of the room falls for his bait and the worthwhile discussion is long gone.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 06:32:34 PM
Post by: rasbo on March 28, 2012, 06:50:13 PM
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 07:05:50 PM
Post by: rebal69972 on March 28, 2012, 07:19:58 PM
Yes, there are situations with hybrids living a life without incidences, but it's 50% plus with the rates on non-incidental and incidental lives of hybrids.
i will make sure to call the members of my tribe and warn them about there hybrids and the few Prue bloods they have and have never had a problem. this is the only time i will respond off topic
with the attack if it where a bear or cougar there would be hounds men out there hunting it down and killing it. if it is a hybrid we should do the samething or even if its a wolf. if it where my dog that bit someone i would have to put it down. when did an animals life become more important or more valuable then a persons
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 07:31:36 PM
Post by: full strutting on March 28, 2012, 08:16:35 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 28, 2012, 08:52:33 PM
This is where I can easily tell you, hybrids attacks are insanely common. You have your wild genes clashing with he domestic genes, and that makes the animal unpredictible and usually irritable and nervous. It's actually safer to outright own a pure wolf than a hybrid. A child running or screaming will trigger the prey instinct and alot of peple and children have died from hybrid attacks. i will definately be following this case to see the outcome.
Guess I'm a little late.... But I'm starting to see a trend here.... :chuckle: :liar: :stfu: :bs: :ass: There is no need for a single wolf in the US... We have people. Cougar... Black Bear.... Coyote.... Even some Grizz....
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 09:37:28 PM
It don't tink you mean that we don't NEED wolves. You just don't WANT them. There's a difference.
Well since they were extirpated in WA for over 50 years and the world did not end I would say they are not needed. I would say it is more that YOU WANT them. Not the other way around.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 09:39:52 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 09:42:48 PM
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 09:44:34 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 09:49:28 PM
Not touching that one. We will just go in circles like we've already done.
There are only so many animals that can be taken. Cougars, coyotes, bears, wolves, bobcats, weather, disease and cars all take their share. Just because hunters want to retain a fair share of those animals and pay for the privilege I just dont see that as selfish. You obviously have some kind of human guilt/loathing complex. I only say that based on your screen name and comments. It is more than obvious you have no regard for the heritage of hunting and see it as something disposable.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 09:50:33 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 09:57:07 PM
Quite the opposite, actually(on the disposable aspect)
Then why would you call someone selfish for fighting to keep hunting alive? If we have the influx of wolves that is coming there simply will not be enough game left to have a viable hunting season. There just is not enough animals to go around and hunters will be the ones pushed out. It is simple math. I dont know why you have such a problem seeing that.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:02:28 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 10:12:29 PM
What about the idea that there's ALOT more hunters than ever? I've also mentioned that I agree that they are shooting for too high of a number in packs. Like I said, I think management is possible.
Not true. There are more elk hunters than ever but every other category is down.
I still dont understand how you think they can be managed. What other state is keeping wolves numbers at their goals? And they are allowed aerial gunning and traps and snares that are not allowed here. Historically wolves had bounties, government hunters, trappers, adn unlimited season and harvest by hunters and land owners. It was not until the introduction of poison that they were taken out. We will not have any of that.
We are not allowed an unlimited season on cougars despite the fact there is no way boot hunters can harvest minimum harvest goals even with unlimited opportunity. We were told that it devalues the animal if the season is too long.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:17:52 PM
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:22:01 PM
Post by: Klyne3 on March 28, 2012, 10:26:42 PM
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 10:30:07 PM
I don't want hunters to lose their rights, but I don't completely trust the 'sportsman' community to be unbiased about running it either. When you boil it down, i don't trust anyone in all of this. But we have to choose the lesser of two evils, right?
Unbiased? why should we not have a bias? Why should we not look out for ourselves? Are you doing it? LOL People agreed to population goals for the experimental wolf recovery. They were betrayed at every turn. We are not the ones that are untrustworthy. If hunters believe for a second that all possible measures would be taken to manage wolves responsibly there would not be many that had any problem with some wolves. You already know that that is blown out of the water with the disaster of a wolf plan.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:30:27 PM
So what is the lesser evil then?Still figuring that one out as we go along. I'm quite critical of both sides. I'm really disappointed with how the wolf side isn't taking the hunting supporters as serious as they should. They shouldnt assume they can sweep them under the rug. I'm also disappointed in the hunting side for some of the attitudes I've seen with religious bigotry, lack of care for anything besides themselves and total childishness(how can you expect to gain support by calling the opposition '*censored*s'?).
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 28, 2012, 10:33:43 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on March 28, 2012, 10:34:36 PM
Try loggin into a peta site or a wolf lovers site and see how long you are allowed the opportunity to post your differing opinion. We are proving right now that we are more accepting than our adversary.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:37:47 PM
Unbiased? why should we not have a bias? Why should we not look out for ourselves?
I guess I'm too giving of a person to pretty much never worry about myself my whole life. I'm a man of sacrifice(and I have sacrificed alot, physically and figuratively). Thats where we truly disagree, I think. I never think about myself and my 'needs' and 'wants'. I'm always thinking about others. If I believe something is wrong, I try to right it. I love tradition, but tradition falls to the wayside in my eyes if I think it's detrimental to a circumstance at hand. Hunting is an AMAZING past time and tradition, but that doesn't mean it's infallable. Is that all a huge fault on my part? Thats for others to decide, I guess.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:38:17 PM
You are kidding, right?
Try loggin into a peta site or a wolf lovers site and see how long you are allowed the opportunity to post your differing opinion. We are proving right now that we are more accepting than our adversary.
I wasn't talking about this place.
Post by: Kain on March 28, 2012, 10:46:27 PM
Unbiased? why should we not have a bias? Why should we not look out for ourselves?
I guess I'm too giving of a person to pretty much never worry about myself my whole life. I'm a man of sacrifice(and I have sacrificed alot, physically and figuratively). Thats where we truly disagree, I think. I never think about myself and my 'needs' and 'wants'. I'm always thinking about others. If I believe something is wrong, I try to right it. I love tradition, but tradition falls to the wayside in my eyes if I think it's detrimental to a circumstance at hand. Hunting is an AMAZING past time and tradition, but that doesn't mean it's infallable. Is that all a huge fault on my part? Thats for others to decide, I guess.
IF there was a mass die off due to disease or natural event you would see hunters giving up not only our seasons but probably a lot of time and money also to see things put right. We are very proud our dollars get used for enforcement and habitat recovery and protection. We are true conservationists. But letting people crap on you, your family, your heritage, your livelihood, or your way of life and not standing up for yourself is some kind of mental disorder.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 10:49:25 PM
But when people spout off about 'our money', 'our rights', and 'OUR HERDS'... sometimes it comes off, depending on how it is said, like people just want this place to be a huge elk farm and nothing else. Not saying thats what your saying, but thats the attitude I get from the testimonies at the public meetings.
Post by: Klyne3 on March 28, 2012, 11:04:31 PM
Hey, I'm not saying it isn't honorable to do that.
But when people spout off about 'our money', 'our rights', and 'OUR HERDS'... sometimes it comes off, depending on how it is said, like people just want this place to be a huge elk farm and nothing else. Not saying thats what your saying, but thats the attitude I get from the testimonies at the public meetings.
Sorry that is the impression that you have managed to pick up but if you look at the facts it's the hunters who spend money for tags, permits, passes, outfitters, etc. so it is Our money. It is OUR herds - who else helps out? It is OUR right - to continue the tradition of hunting and be able to pass it down to our children.
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 11:07:55 PM
Plus, I wouldn't take anything for granted. You never know, they could decide to take money from other revenues and you guys won't have that stake in the discussion anymore. Anything is possible at this point.
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 28, 2012, 11:10:48 PM
But when you try to take a claim on something like that... I don't know. It still comes off bad. I get where you come from with the money aspect and all, but still, this land isn't here ONLY for the 'sportsman'(sorry, i have to admit that I hate that word) and hunters.
Plus, I wouldn't take anything for granted. You never know, they could decide to take money from other revenues and you guys won't have that stake in the discussion anymore. Anything is possible at this point.
They already take revenue from tag sales and put it toward OTHER STUFF..... :bash: Ask gregwhore.... you voted for her... :chuckle:
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 11:12:24 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 28, 2012, 11:15:03 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 28, 2012, 11:16:45 PM
Actually, i didn't.
Don't buy it..... You've cried wolf too many times in the last hour for me to believe a word you spell...Too many key board lies...
Post by: humanure on March 28, 2012, 11:18:26 PM
Post by: Klyne3 on March 28, 2012, 11:20:59 PM
But when you try to take a claim on something like that... I don't know. It still comes off bad. I get where you come from with the money aspect and all, but still, this land isn't here ONLY for the 'sportsman'(sorry, i have to admit that I hate that word) and hunters.
Plus, I wouldn't take anything for granted. You never know, they could decide to take money from other revenues and you guys won't have that stake in the discussion anymore. Anything is possible at this point.
We are not debating about the land now are we. The land is a separate issue from herds. And Kowsrule is completely correct in that the coffers have already been taken advantage of. And why should the hunters not have a stake in the management of the herds? It would be equivalent of me telling a vegetarian how to grow their garden and what they need to eat
Post by: Special T on April 03, 2012, 12:18:20 PM
Exactly if you don't buy a hunting or fishing lic then you should have VERY little imput on the subject. ALL comments should require a Wild ID number. it would eliminate a lot of bunny huggers from commenting.