Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 11:18:41 AM
So I wanted to put a poll up to see how many who would otherwise purchase an archery tag and hunt archery season, but will now buy a muzzleloader tag instead, and hunt with a bow during that season.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2012, 11:21:09 AM
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2012, 11:21:33 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
But, if I get my multi-season and they allow archery equipment during ML, I'll use my bow since I don't have a ML. Here we go again! :chuckle:
That's understandable, I can see that happening. But that's a limited number of people so shouldn't be much of a concern.
I'm interested in the general tags and how many will switch from archery season to muzzleloader, because they think the season is that much better.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 11:26:39 AM
you should also add a choice for if you bought a multi season tag. Would you use your bow during muzzleloader season if you had a multi season tag? :twocents:
The multi-season tag holders can hunt all the seasons anyway. They just need to buy or borrow a muzzleloader if they don't already have one. Same situation if they don't already own a bow, they would need to buy one if they want to take advantage of all three seasons.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 11:27:21 AM
you should also add a choice for if you bought a multi season tag. Would you use your bow during muzzleloader season if you had a multi season tag? :twocents:
The multi-season tag holders can hunt all the seasons anyway. They just need to buy or borrow a muzzleloader if they don't already have one. Same situation if they don't already own a bow, they would need to buy one if they want to take advantage of all three seasons.
Correct, and I'm not going to buy a ML.
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2012, 11:30:20 AM
you should also add a choice for if you bought a multi season tag. Would you use your bow during muzzleloader season if you had a multi season tag? :twocents:
The multi-season tag holders can hunt all the seasons anyway. They just need to buy or borrow a muzzleloader if they don't already have one. Same situation if they don't already own a bow, they would need to buy one if they want to take advantage of all three seasons.
But in the same breathe I know a lot of bow hunters that just hunt the bow season and rifle season when they get drawn. Since they don't want to buy a muzzy. Now those guys will all be hunting with their bows and possibly putting in for the muzzy special permits.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 11:32:47 AM
you should also add a choice for if you bought a multi season tag. Would you use your bow during muzzleloader season if you had a multi season tag? :twocents:
The multi-season tag holders can hunt all the seasons anyway. They just need to buy or borrow a muzzleloader if they don't already have one. Same situation if they don't already own a bow, they would need to buy one if they want to take advantage of all three seasons.
But in the same breathe I know a lot of bow hunters that just hunt the bow season and rifle season when they get drawn. Since they don't want to buy a muzzy. Now those guys will all be hunting with their bows and possibly putting in for the muzzy special permits.
You can do that with the multi? You're right, I'd do that.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 11:34:21 AM
Quote
Now those guys will all be hunting with their bows and possibly putting in for the muzzy special permits.
That's fine, I don't have an issue with that.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 04, 2012, 11:37:30 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 11:42:31 AM
Oh, and this isn't for those with a multi-season tag. I only want to know who will buy a muzzleloader tag instead of an archery tag, if this change goes through.
Post by: et1702 on April 04, 2012, 12:15:54 PM
ET
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 01:25:51 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 01:42:34 PM
The whole original idea behind the MS tag was to give hunters an opportunity to experience all that the three seasons had to offer, at a premium price of course. If you are dead set against hunting with a ML then dont buy the tag, the notion that we ML's need to accomadate an archer during our season simply because they dont want to make the investment in the weapon, and trying to bolster the arguement that archery gear is inferior to ML is idiotic. No one is forcing you to buy a ML tag. And dont get your hopes up that ML season is going to allow archery use. There will be an injunction filed against the WDFW if they approve this rule change. :tup:
An injunction? And by whom would it be filed? I've heard all kinds of comments about wise uses of Discovery pass money and license funds. Suing the DFW over this would be really frivolous and a waste of our tag funds. Your time and money would be far better spent getting a coalition of concerned hunters together and changing the rules within the system.
Post by: Holg3107 on April 04, 2012, 01:45:53 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 01:50:16 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 01:57:15 PM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
Lawsuit or injunction - it's still money coming out of our services. Who do you think you're hurting by making them spend money in court? And, you're assuming a lot in saying that you represent the muzzy hunters of WA. You need more than a warm breeze from your diaphragm to get an injunction put in place by a judge. Good luck with that.
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 04, 2012, 02:36:01 PM
Post by: Curly on April 04, 2012, 02:49:10 PM
I voted No (as I believe most archery people would). The first "crack" at the animals and longer archery season are still better. My :twocents: But, I would love the option to be able to hunt w/my achery gear for elk during ML season w/multi-tag (if I didn't already connect during Archery season, which is highly likely). Plus, if I choose to hunt other states during the September archery season (if I ever get drawn again in NM, AZ, or UT), I would like the option to come home and hunt w/my bow during ML season for elk. I would still stay w/archery for deer, as the late seasons are typically better. I've been archery hunting for over 33yrs, and only occasionally do I switch to ML or Modern for anything. Usually only if circumstances prevent me from hunting w/my bow.
ET
I also believe most archery guys will do just as you stated above.
The only real affect this change will have is allow archery guys who get the multi-season tag to hunt the ML season and not have to borrow or buy a ML. And with the amount of Multi-season tags given out now, it could be a bit more hunters during the ML season.
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 04, 2012, 03:06:16 PM
Ok I found it this is only for deer season. I think the state should adopt what most other states have is an archery season from Sept to Dec or Jan. I know Minnesota is like that.I stand corrected it is also elk season.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 03:07:42 PM
Ok I found it this is only for deer season. I think the state should adopt what most other states have is an archery season from Sept to Dec or Jan. I know Minnesota is like that.I stand corrected it is also elk season.
We knew that. ;)
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 03:11:18 PM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
Lawsuit or injunction - it's still money coming out of our services. Who do you think you're hurting by making them spend money in court? And, you're assuming a lot in saying that you represent the muzzy hunters of WA. You need more than a warm breeze from your diaphragm to get an injunction put in place by a judge. Good luck with that.
Frankly Pianoman i dont give a damn what it cost the state to defend their decision in this matter. ML season is for ML's "ONLY". You are obviously one of those people who do alot of bitchin but dont have the temerity to take it to the next level, but at the same time want to preach to others about the futility of even trying. Sounds to me like you just need to point your toes skyward and take your last breath. How did you get to be a moderator anyway? You get a vote of no confidence from me! Im gonna keep pushing ahead and making some waves because its not their dept of WDFW, it's mine. I would like to ask all those concerned about this encroachment to go to the other thread, copy my letters, sign your name to them and send them to the addresses noted. Thank you for your support.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=92895.0
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 03:16:59 PM
I have a muzzleloader elk tag this year and you know what? I wasn't going to, but just because you're SO against it, I'm going to hunt with my bow instead of my muzzleloader.
Hopefully you'll see me out there! :IBCOOL:
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 03:24:07 PM
when we want!
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
Lawsuit or injunction - it's still money coming out of our services. Who do you think you're hurting by making them spend money in court? And, you're assuming a lot in saying that you represent the muzzy hunters of WA. You need more than a warm breeze from your diaphragm to get an injunction put in place by a judge. Good luck with that.
Frankly Pianoman i dont give a damn what it cost the state to defend their decision in this matter. ML season is for ML's "ONLY". You are obviously one of those people who do alot of bitchin but dont have the temerity to take it to the next level, but at the same time want to preach to others about the futility of even trying. Sounds to me like you just need to point your toes skyward and take your last breath. How did you get to be a moderator anyway? You get a vote of no confidence from me! Im gonna keep pushing ahead and making some waves because its not their dept of WDFW, it's mine. I would like to ask all those concerned about this encroachment to go to the other thread, copy my letters, sign your name to them and send them to the addresses noted. Thank you for your support.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=92895.0
Yeah sure, WAelk, that's me, all mouth and no action. You apparently don't pay attention very much. I'll be interested to see what you think action is. Show us the injunction or even that you even went to court. You're nothing but hot air and everyone is aware of that.
And because you think it's the state's money that you'd be spending, let me clue you into something - the state doesn't have any money. It never has and it never will. It's our money you'd be spending. But I'm not worried. You'll never do anything that takes more than pounding a keyboard. Back on iggy for you, wind bag.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 03:28:29 PM
Its not official yet Bobcat so dont get your hopes up. We all knew you were all for this encroachment on another user groups time early on in the other thread you started. You're really not much of a public relationship guy for archers are you. To hell with ML's eh Bobcat. We archers are gonna do what we want
when we want!
I'm not an archer, I am a muzzleloader, and I'm gonna do what I want. (hunt with a bow) 8) ;)
Oh, and I'm 100% certain this rule change is a done deal, so no worries there.
Why don't you go out tomorrow and purchase a bow so you can take full advantage of it?
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2012, 03:34:25 PM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
Lawsuit or injunction - it's still money coming out of our services. Who do you think you're hurting by making them spend money in court? And, you're assuming a lot in saying that you represent the muzzy hunters of WA. You need more than a warm breeze from your diaphragm to get an injunction put in place by a judge. Good luck with that.
Frankly Pianoman i dont give a damn what it cost the state to defend their decision in this matter. ML season is for ML's "ONLY". You are obviously one of those people who do alot of bitchin but dont have the temerity to take it to the next level, but at the same time want to preach to others about the futility of even trying. Sounds to me like you just need to point your toes skyward and take your last breath. How did you get to be a moderator anyway? You get a vote of no confidence from me! Im gonna keep pushing ahead and making some waves because its not their dept of WDFW, it's mine. I would like to ask all those concerned about this encroachment to go to the other thread, copy my letters, sign your name to them and send them to the addresses noted. Thank you for your support.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=92895.0
Yeah sure, WAelk, that's me, all mouth and no action. You apparently don't pay attention very much. I'll be interested to see what you think action is. Show us the injunction or even that you even went to court. You're nothing but hot air and everyone is aware of that.
And because you think it's the state's money that you'd be spending, let me clue you into something - the state doesn't have any money. It never has and it never will. It's our money you'd be spending. But I'm not worried. You'll never do anything that takes more than pounding a keyboard. Back on iggy for you, wind bag.
That pretty much somes it up...
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 04, 2012, 03:35:31 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 03:43:46 PM
Pianoman: Commenting in this forum actually is action. You would be surprised to know then that others have copied and sent their own letters out in this matter? Im a wind bag? Ok i release a mighty fart in your direction. :chuckle:
Seems to me alot of folks here have a hard time coping with an opposing point of view and being challenged. Perhaps this should just be the "archery hunting washington forum"?
Post by: Curly on April 04, 2012, 03:44:58 PM
Why not just merge the two seasons. The best of both worlds. :tup: That would make everyone happy or would it. :dunno:
That is really what they should do. Purchase a primitive weapon tag and hunt the archery season with a bow and the ML season with a ML.
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 04, 2012, 03:46:32 PM
Of course your 100% certain Bobcat. I would not be surprised in the least to find out it was you who proposed it. In fact im almost certain it was because you have been going great guns to sell it. Why dont you come clean and admit it. It will do your soul good.In case you didn't notice this is posted in the bow hunting section. I would think this would be where most of the bow hunters like to hang out. Just my :twocents:
Pianoman: Commenting in this forum actually is action. You would be surprised to know then that others have copied and sent their own letters out in this matter? Im a wind bag? Ok i release a mighty fart in your direction. :chuckle:
Seems to me alot of folks here have a hard time coping with an opposing point of view and being challenged. Perhaps this should just be the "archery hunting washington forum"?
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 03:48:50 PM
Of course your 100% certain
So are you planning on picking up a new bow tomorrow? :dunno:
Post by: et1702 on April 04, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
Of course your 100% certain Bobcat. I would not be surprised in the least to find out it was you who proposed it. In fact im almost certain it was because you have been going great guns to sell it. Why dont you come clean and admit it. It will do your soul good.In case you didn't notice this is posted in the bow hunting section. I would think this would be where most of the bow hunters like to hang out. Just my :twocents:
Pianoman: Commenting in this forum actually is action. You would be surprised to know then that others have copied and sent their own letters out in this matter? Im a wind bag? Ok i release a mighty fart in your direction. :chuckle:
Seems to me alot of folks here have a hard time coping with an opposing point of view and being challenged. Perhaps this should just be the "archery hunting washington forum"?
EXACTLY, this was a poll for Archers! Hopefully to show WaElkHntr he doesn't really have too much to worry about (and so this thread doesn't get to 11 or 12 pages like the last one!) BTW, I'm w/Bobcat on the issue of whether, or not it's a done deal. Just received an e-mail from WDFW yesterday asking for a cover picture for the NEW Regs book. Text is already at the printers! Stick a fork in it, its DONE.
ET
Post by: hughjorgan on April 04, 2012, 03:59:10 PM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
I hope you do, while you are at it make sure you make those guys with shotguns chasing grouse during ML season is stopped too, and don't forget those people predator hunting or 4x4ing. In all reality the regulations are probably in the presses and will be in stores in two weeks it is a done deal and nothing you can do to change it. I am sure if you brought a suit to begin with the WDFW lawyer would probably file a summary judgement because they have went through the proper avenues to change the law.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 03:59:54 PM
So are you planning on picking up a new bow tomorrow?
Of course not. I shoot a Martin X200 wood recurve. Bought when the first MS tags were offered and i got.
Funny. it never would have occured to me to cry to the state that i should be able to use my ML during archery. I just accepted the situation and was tickled to get the chance to hunt with the bow. You should know that what passes for a bow today is in my opinion nothing more then a machine. there is no elegance to be found in it. Just my Op.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 04:07:50 PM
now lets see some action. or is it just bagging on me going to be the best thing you did today?
Post by: Feanix on April 04, 2012, 04:09:11 PM
Post by: et1702 on April 04, 2012, 04:16:52 PM
I voted No (as I believe most archery people would). The first "crack" at the animals and longer archery season are still better. My :twocents: But, I would love the option to be able to hunt w/my achery gear for elk during ML season w/multi-tag (if I didn't already connect during Archery season, which is highly likely). Plus, if I choose to hunt other states during the September archery season (if I ever get drawn again in NM, AZ, or UT), I would like the option to come home and hunt w/my bow during ML season for elk. I would still stay w/archery for deer, as the late seasons are typically better. I've been archery hunting for over 33yrs, and only occasionally do I switch to ML or Modern for anything. Usually only if circumstances prevent me from hunting w/my bow.
ET
I also believe most archery guys will do just as you stated above.
The only real affect this change will have is allow archery guys who get the multi-season tag to hunt the ML season and not have to borrow or buy a ML. And with the amount of Multi-season tags given out now, it could be a bit more hunters during the ML season.
Agreed, but the MS tag agrument should not really be an issue. If you are lucky enough to draw one, you can hunt in any of the open seasons. Doesn't really matter if you hunt w/ML or bow during ML season, you have a right to hunt w/MS tag. I also think that most of us have all three weapons, or know a buddy that does who would be willing to loan a guy their ML. Heck, I have two ML's. Archery guys that want to borrow one for hunting their MS tag during ML season, shoot me a PM!
ET
Post by: et1702 on April 04, 2012, 04:20:03 PM
Hey you guys can take all the shots at me you want. I got a thick skin and a quick wit. If you all really had any cajones you would notify the WDFW that you dont want archers to be hunting during ML season. Keep the ML only stipulation. Come on now man up! You all talk big about supporting hunting rights and hunters
now lets see some action. or is it just bagging on me going to be the best thing you did today?
You are on the archery board, shouldn't you be preaching somewhere else!
ET
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 04:24:54 PM
Post by: Curly on April 04, 2012, 04:27:48 PM
I voted No (as I believe most archery people would). The first "crack" at the animals and longer archery season are still better. My :twocents: But, I would love the option to be able to hunt w/my achery gear for elk during ML season w/multi-tag (if I didn't already connect during Archery season, which is highly likely). Plus, if I choose to hunt other states during the September archery season (if I ever get drawn again in NM, AZ, or UT), I would like the option to come home and hunt w/my bow during ML season for elk. I would still stay w/archery for deer, as the late seasons are typically better. I've been archery hunting for over 33yrs, and only occasionally do I switch to ML or Modern for anything. Usually only if circumstances prevent me from hunting w/my bow.
ET
I also believe most archery guys will do just as you stated above.
The only real affect this change will have is allow archery guys who get the multi-season tag to hunt the ML season and not have to borrow or buy a ML. And with the amount of Multi-season tags given out now, it could be a bit more hunters during the ML season.
Agreed, but the MS tag agrument should not really be an issue. If you are lucky enough to draw one, you can hunt in any of the open seasons. Doesn't really matter if you hunt w/ML or bow during ML season, you have a right to hunt w/MS tag. I also think that most of us have all three weapons, or know a buddy that does who would be willing to loan a guy their ML. Heck, I have two ML's. Archery guys that want to borrow one for hunting their MS tag during ML season, shoot me a PM!
ET
I've heard from several archers that they will only hunt with archery equipment, so for them, if this proposal stands (like I'm sure it will) then they will now be able to hunt in the ML season if they have the ms permit. Maybe there isn't a lot of those type of people....... :dunno:
Post by: et1702 on April 04, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
I voted No (as I believe most archery people would). The first "crack" at the animals and longer archery season are still better. My :twocents: But, I would love the option to be able to hunt w/my achery gear for elk during ML season w/multi-tag (if I didn't already connect during Archery season, which is highly likely). Plus, if I choose to hunt other states during the September archery season (if I ever get drawn again in NM, AZ, or UT), I would like the option to come home and hunt w/my bow during ML season for elk. I would still stay w/archery for deer, as the late seasons are typically better. I've been archery hunting for over 33yrs, and only occasionally do I switch to ML or Modern for anything. Usually only if circumstances prevent me from hunting w/my bow.
ET
I also believe most archery guys will do just as you stated above.
The only real affect this change will have is allow archery guys who get the multi-season tag to hunt the ML season and not have to borrow or buy a ML. And with the amount of Multi-season tags given out now, it could be a bit more hunters during the ML season.
Agreed, but the MS tag agrument should not really be an issue. If you are lucky enough to draw one, you can hunt in any of the open seasons. Doesn't really matter if you hunt w/ML or bow during ML season, you have a right to hunt w/MS tag. I also think that most of us have all three weapons, or know a buddy that does who would be willing to loan a guy their ML. Heck, I have two ML's. Archery guys that want to borrow one for hunting their MS tag during ML season, shoot me a PM!
ET
I've heard from several archers that they will only hunt with archery equipment, so for them, if this proposal stands (like I'm sure it will) then they will now be able to hunt in the ML season if they have the ms permit. Maybe there isn't a lot of those type of people....... :dunno:
Yes, there was a little sarcasm about my offer for an "Archer" to borrow a ML to hunt during the ML season with an MS tag. But, if you look at the distribution of general tags sold, its about 25% archery, 10% ML and 65% Modern. The entire archery group are not going to pull a MS tag in the WDFW lottery. So, if the distribution of MS tags is approximately the same as the other general season tags, there might be 25% of the MS tags given to archers. Of that 25%, not everyone is going to choose to hunt w/their bow during ML season. So, the actual number of MS tag winners that will choose to hunt the ML season with their bows would likely be quite small.
Besides, even if you do pull and MS tag, I don't know many people that can take off a week or more during the three seperate seasons with regular obligations we all have (e.g., work, family, etc.). So, I think the impact is even smaller than most everyone might imagine. It just gives us HUNTERS as a group, more options, which is good!
ET
Post by: Fullabull on April 04, 2012, 04:57:43 PM
Post by: wrongway on April 04, 2012, 05:00:09 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 05:08:55 PM
I will only hunt during archery seasons as I know my areas and do not want to take the time to learn new ones. Of course if I draw a multi tag I will also hunt with a bow during ML season since they get the best rutting season for elk.
This is exactly the type of selfcentered thinking that i am opposed to in this debate. The "i dont want to have to abide by the rules - change them to accomodate me" myopic attitude. Thanks for showing up
fullabull, i appreciate having this in the record.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 05:10:27 PM
I would hunt durring the ML season with my bow in a secound if my unit was open for ML. the bulls are going nuts durring the ML season, I feel no better time to hunt
Heres another one: Gracias Amigo.
Post by: deerslyr on April 04, 2012, 06:49:49 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 06:55:05 PM
So who voted yes on the poll?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 04, 2012, 07:02:11 PM
I would not lie about it myself. I have no late season in my area so I hunt with a muzzleloader to hunt the late hunt. I will for sure be hunting with a bow in the late muzzle if becomes legal.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 07:18:05 PM
I think most archers would stick to the archery season. The muzzy season is shorter, less units open, and more restrictive harvest wise. I dont see many changing any time soon and dont see what every one is fussing about.
For me it boils down to unintended consequences, which is something that most of the do-gooders of this world dont bother to think about. They see an issue and they suggest a solution; but they never bother to think about what the consequences of their action might be.
So heres my problem. Archers in Wash state are first up. Thats fine, im cool with it. So. you have the long range weather forecast and you see its going to be hot for the first few days and then its going to pour buckets of rain, like it did the last two years. So you (half the archers in the state) now have a different option. the state because of dogooderness and input from putout archers, has decided that hell yeah! You archers can just p/u the Ml tag and step on their toes. We dont GAF, just pay us. So you see that is where the rubber hits the road. Archers will be able to call the ball before their season even starts and if they dont like what they see; well we can just slide into the ML slot like slick snot. So theres the rub. Now you know why im pissed about this proposed change.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 07:53:04 PM
I voted yes bob. I think I explained it with a post as well.
I would not lie about it myself. I have no late season in my area so I hunt with a muzzleloader to hunt the late hunt. I will for sure be hunting with a bow in the late muzzle if becomes legal.
OK, yeah I forgot about your post. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of people who want to buy a muzzleloader ELK tag and hunt with bow in the muzzleloader elk season. Since that seems to be the biggest issue certain people have, is that archery hunters are going to now want to hunt the "better" season. Which as I've said, I don't understand, because with a start date of October 6th, the muzzleloader season starts well after the rut is over.
As to your situation, that's a great reason right there for this change. You would hunt the muzzleloader season anyway, this rule change just lets you use your bow if and when you choose. That surely doesn't hurt any of the other muzzleloader hunters who are out there at the same time. In fact it gives them an advantage over you. If there's a buck 100 yards away, they can take it and you can't.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 04, 2012, 08:01:08 PM
:tup: I guess there is a few people that will throw a arrow out at 100 yards not me. Unless I have already hit a animal. I will put as many arrows into a animal as I can before it is down. If it's still on it's feet i will shoot it again. Just the way I am. I have put 2nd arrows into animals at the 70-90 yard range before. I would love it! I would pack both weapons but I would love to mess around with my bow in that late hunt.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 04, 2012, 08:01:46 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 08:06:09 PM
I don't think the archers can switch their tags if they had applied for a special permit. The others could possibly do as you say.
Not true. If the season has'nt actually started you can go down to WDFW and get a change in your license.
So if you didnt draw what you wanted during archery you can go and get changed to ML or MF. Another back door into the ML season.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2012, 08:09:41 PM
I don't think the archers can switch their tags if they had applied for a special permit. The others could possibly do as you say.
:yeah: Very few people are going to wait to see what the weather does and then switch from archery to a muzzleloader tag. And if a few do, heck I think that's great. Give hunters more options and flexibility. If I didn't always apply for special permits, I would wait until the end of August to decide which tag to buy too.
(but if I bought a muzzleloader tag, I would probably hunt with a muzzleloader)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 04, 2012, 08:10:22 PM
I don't think the archers can switch their tags if they had applied for a special permit. The others could possibly do as you say.
Not true. If the season has'nt actually started you can go down to WDFW and get a change in your license.
So if you didnt draw what you wanted during archery you can go and get changed to ML or MF. Another back door into the ML season.
I do not think that is true. I have tried that before and if you put in for special permits you can not switch even if the season has not started. Everyone would be doing that if you could do it.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 04, 2012, 08:12:53 PM
I don't think the archers can switch their tags if they had applied for a special permit. The others could possibly do as you say.
Not true. If the season has'nt actually started you can go down to WDFW and get a change in your license.
So if you didnt draw what you wanted during archery you can go and get changed to ML or MF. Another back door into the ML season.
I do not think that is true. I have tried that before and if you put in for special permits you can not switch even if the season has not started. Everyone would be doing that if you could do it.
you may be right. i hope thats the case, but i thouhgt you had that option.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 04, 2012, 08:28:42 PM
If you applied for permits and did not have a multi season tag to hunt all 3. I don't think you can switch. I called a few years back and asked them and they said no. They told me so many people would be putting in for like quality bull tags for rifle, then if they don't draw switch to bow to be able to shoot a cow rather then a spike. SO unless it changed I don't think a person has that option.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 04, 2012, 08:50:01 PM
Post by: deerslyr on April 04, 2012, 09:05:46 PM
Post by: huntnnw on April 04, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
But, if I get my multi-season and they allow archery equipment during ML, I'll use my bow since I don't have a ML. Here we go again! :chuckle:
That's understandable, I can see that happening. But that's a limited number of people so shouldn't be much of a concern.
I'm interested in the general tags and how many will switch from archery season to muzzleloader, because they think the season is that much better.
I dont think its better..this year is an example..Oct 6? no thanks Id rather have sept any day
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 04, 2012, 11:01:16 PM
But, if I get my multi-season and they allow archery equipment during ML, I'll use my bow since I don't have a ML. Here we go again! :chuckle:
That's understandable, I can see that happening. But that's a limited number of people so shouldn't be much of a concern.
I'm interested in the general tags and how many will switch from archery season to muzzleloader, because they think the season is that much better.
I dont think its better..this year is an example..Oct 6? no thanks Id rather have sept any day
Normally I would too but last year I would have had several cracks at the MONSTER had I been able to bowhunt in October.....like you can in almost every other state in the nation :bash:
Post by: wrongway on April 05, 2012, 07:30:17 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 05, 2012, 08:34:32 AM
waselkhunter looks like you are the selfcentered one, what does it matter if a handfull of people start hunting with a bow durring ML season, this is the best time to hunt the bulls. the rut is in full swing. I even know some guys thet are going to put down the ML and use thier bows. and yes I would be hunting durring that season if my unit was open for ML. I dont think tomany guys are going to change the unit they hunt in if they know it well and does not offer a ML season. just my :twocents:
Criminy! Here is another one to bolster my claim that archers as a group in this state covet the ML season.
They admit it openly and then wonder why ML's are concerned about this possible encroachment on our time slot. :bash:
Post by: Fullabull on April 05, 2012, 08:43:54 AM
I was not complaining about anything!!! This rule was not something I asked for, I think this is just a way for the WDFW to stop us archers from complaining about not getting to hunt any of the prime rutting time. The only reason they restrict ML units for hunting is because of the rutting going on, everyone and their mother would hunt ML if it were open to all units . The elk would be decimated and we would definitely end up with a permit only system. No matter what they try and do to accommodate any user groups, they are going to get complaints. That's just the way it is. Just like you complaining because you feel your group is getting stepped on.
I hunt archery because I love the challenge and quiet of the woods. I use to hunt rifle years ago and changed because of the number of people in the woods and its not a challenge to shoot an elk at 500 yards!
For the record, no one here is being any more selfish than you are..
Post by: BAR C3 on April 05, 2012, 08:48:37 AM
I will say I don't agree with this change. :bdid: It's all about $$$$. Hunters need to boycott the multi season tags and spend a couple more hundred and hunt the other Western states with better hunting seasons. :tup:
Post by: wrongway on April 05, 2012, 08:56:21 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 05, 2012, 09:00:01 AM
waselkhunter, time to take a chill pill!!!!
I was not complaining about anything!!! This rule was not something I asked for, I think this is just a way for the WDFW to stop us archers from complaining about not getting to hunt any of the prime rutting time. The only reason they restrict ML units for hunting is because of the rutting going on, everyone and their mother would hunt ML if it were open to all units . The elk would be decimated and we would definitely end up with a permit only system. No matter what they try and do to accommodate any user groups, they are going to get complaints. That's just the way it is. Just like you complaining because you feel your group is getting stepped on.
I hunt archery because I love the challenge and quiet of the woods. I use to hunt rifle years ago and changed because of the number of people in the woods and its not a challenge to shoot an elk at 500 yard
For the record, no one here is being any more selfish than you are..
[/quote
Oh sweet baby Jesus! So its me being selfish defending the historically traditional muzzleloader only season. Thanks for the headsup.
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 05, 2012, 09:04:37 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 05, 2012, 09:05:09 AM
washelkhunter, so how many multi season hunters are you going to have this year that never hunted with a ML before with all the extra permits that are being sold this year, I would say way more then any archer that might be in your spot killing your elk durring ML season, as well us archers will have them in the woods, but you dont see us yelling about it.
Why dont we just stay focused on the issue at hand and deal with the known facts please.
By the way they arent my elk, they're the states.
Post by: Fullabull on April 05, 2012, 09:35:41 AM
What is the issue in your eyes, so we are all clear on what you are obviously upset about?
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 09:40:18 AM
But, if I get my multi-season and they allow archery equipment during ML, I'll use my bow since I don't have a ML. Here we go again! :chuckle:
That's understandable, I can see that happening. But that's a limited number of people so shouldn't be much of a concern.
I'm interested in the general tags and how many will switch from archery season to muzzleloader, because they think the season is that much better.
Gosh, I wish they'd let me use my muzzleloader for the archery seasons... :chuckle: the grass is always greener, my friends... In the areas I hunt, archers have units open at the same time, plus an adjacent GMU. Would be silly for them to switch to a muzzy tag in my areas.. it would just limit them.
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 09:46:20 AM
Oh boy :yike: bet that would make a lot of archers happy... so I suppose if you're an archer you could understand why a muzzleloader hunter would feel his hunt is getting encroached upon, yes?
Post by: JPhelps on April 05, 2012, 09:58:02 AM
I dont get the argument against it. You would rather have someone out there with a ML which is way moree effective than a bow competing for the same animal? My assumption is that very many archery hunters would out to hunt the ML season.
As far as letting ML hunt the archery season??? It's all about effectiveness of the weapon. Makes very little sense to increase the effective range from 40 yds to 150 yds. Weapon hierarchy is bow than muzzleloader than modern firearm.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 05, 2012, 10:15:54 AM
Please feel free to congratulate me. :IBCOOL:
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 05, 2012, 10:19:13 AM
As far as letting ML hunt the archery season??? It's all about effectiveness of the weapon. Makes very little sense to increase the effective range from 40 yds to 150 yds. Weapon hierarchy is bow than muzzleloader than modern firearm.
Yeah, that just sounded like spite to me. It would be like saying "OK, Modern should get to shoot during ML". I still wish we didn't have a situation separating the hunters and creating infighting. The powers that be and the anits love it when we're not a united front.
Post by: Todd_ID on April 05, 2012, 10:22:35 AM
I don't see too many people jumping from archery to muzzleloader just for the seasons; they would have switched long ago and bought a muzzleloader if they coveted that season.
Post by: Fullabull on April 05, 2012, 10:28:18 AM
If I draw a MS tag I will purchase a ML and not use my bow during your season :tup:
Post by: Curly on April 05, 2012, 10:47:05 AM
I don't think it will be that big of a deal when the commission approves the proposal, but I'm glad he's giving it the old college try to get it turned-down. :tup:
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 10:56:40 AM
As far as letting ML hunt the archery season??? It's all about effectiveness of the weapon. Makes very little sense to increase the effective range from 40 yds to 150 yds. Weapon hierarchy is bow than muzzleloader than modern firearm.
Oh I know.. I was just ruffling some feathers... :chuckle:
To me, it is more about the number of people hunting the seasons and the "success rate", really..
You always get the threads arguing the type and number of hunters versus their success rates, and people making conclusions of what seasons should be cut shorter versus extended based on these statistics. The fact is, if more people are hunting the muzzleloader seasons, and if their season is supposedly the "prime" portion of the season to be hunting and the statistics demonstrate this fact, it gives more spit and vinegar to the ever-existing arguement of season lengths... even if some of the persons hunting the muzzy season are really bow hunting anyways. Don't pretend like these arguements don't get heated here on hunt-wa... I've read the multi-page spats. :)
I mean, you could hunt a modern rifle season with a bow, too... doesn't really matter. What surprises me is the number of archers that think the grass is that much greener... it really doesn't affect me either way; like I already stated.. my general season elk unit is open to archers at the same time I hunt it anyways.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2012, 10:58:19 AM
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 11:02:20 AM
As far as letting ML hunt the archery season??? It's all about effectiveness of the weapon. Makes very little sense to increase the effective range from 40 yds to 150 yds. Weapon hierarchy is bow than muzzleloader than modern firearm.
Yeah, that just sounded like spite to me. It would be like saying "OK, Modern should get to shoot during ML". I still wish we didn't have a situation separating the hunters and creating infighting. The powers that be and the anits love it when we're not a united front.
Nah, not spite.. I just think it is silly that there are actually people considering hunting muzzy season prime real estate versus the archery seasons. Makes sense to me as far as a multiseason option... I would rather see someone utilizing a weapon they are comfortable with and not going out and purchasing a muzzy at Cabela's the day before the season (actually saw this last year) or borrowing one from a friend and heading out into the woods with me.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2012, 11:04:06 AM
How about that i drew a MS deer tag again this year. I do believe that i will petition the WDFW for an exemption to allow me to hunt the archery season with my muzzleloader. Tey are going to have hard time denying my request if they want to stick with the proposal to allow archery durung ML.
Please feel free to congratulate me. :IBCOOL:
Unless you have a six figure check to send to the WDFW you don't have a chance. And I drew MS elk for the first time so I may be in the woods during muzzleloader season.
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2012, 11:06:35 AM
Quote
And I drew MS elk for the first time so I may be in the woods during muzzleloader season.
With your muzzleloader or your bow?
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 11:12:10 AM
I would rather see someone utilizing a weapon they are comfortable with and not going out and purchasing a muzzy at Cabela's the day before the season (actually saw this last year) or borrowing one from a friend and heading out into the woods with me.As far as letting ML hunt the archery season??? It's all about effectiveness of the weapon. Makes very little sense to increase the effective range from 40 yds to 150 yds. Weapon hierarchy is bow than muzzleloader than modern firearm.
Yeah, that just sounded like spite to me. It would be like saying "OK, Modern should get to shoot during ML". I still wish we didn't have a situation separating the hunters and creating infighting. The powers that be and the anits love it when we're not a united front.
Why do you care? People these days are so concerned with what everyone else is doing.... Worry about yourselves and mind your own business.
If someone wants to buy a muzzy on opening day and go out and use it, let them. They're allowed to.
:chuckle: why do I care? Because it takes time to sight any weapon in and make sure you are a responsible hunter. I don't like to see animals suffer when it can be avoided by a little time spent at a firing range or sighting in with a target in your backyard.
Do you hunt muzzleloader? If so, what size bullet? Brand? How much powder are you packing? Do you make quickloads? Things I see someone not putting much thought into if they are purchasing a weapon last minute. What an undereducated retort from you, Miles.
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 11:13:40 AM
How about that i drew a MS deer tag again this year. I do believe that i will petition the WDFW for an exemption to allow me to hunt the archery season with my muzzleloader. Tey are going to have hard time denying my request if they want to stick with the proposal to allow archery durung ML.
Please feel free to congratulate me. :IBCOOL:
Unless you have a six figure check to send to the WDFW you don't have a chance. And I drew MS elk for the first time so I may be in the woods during muzzleloader season.
:tup: that is, if you haven't already tagged out. Best of luck!
Post by: Miles on April 05, 2012, 11:13:54 AM
I removed my post. Not worth an argument with you, as you seem to know all.
You're right, you win. :tup:
Post by: Miles on April 05, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
My first big game kill was with a muzzy.
continue on....
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 11:18:17 AM
Nevermind....
I removed my post. Not worth an argument with you, as you seem to know all.
You're right, you win. :tup:
What intelligent, insightful conversation from someone who often shows his maturity. You have played this game... not just with me but with some of my friends on this site. I will be the first to admit I don't know close to everything in ANY field of study. I'm a proud student. But this is far off topic. If you have a problem with me I invite you to PM me and we can discuss it further.
Post by: Miles on April 05, 2012, 11:22:05 AM
Continue on, you were just starting to impress the newbies.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2012, 11:45:02 AM
QuoteAnd I drew MS elk for the first time so I may be in the woods during muzzleloader season.
With your muzzleloader or your bow?
With my bow. Not even a question.
Post by: Curly on April 05, 2012, 11:52:21 AM
QuoteAnd I drew MS elk for the first time so I may be in the woods during muzzleloader season.
With your muzzleloader or your bow?
With my bow. Not even a question.
And this is the reason why WDFW is proposing this. There are a lot of archers that probably would not buy the MS permit because they would only be able to hunt archery and modern with their bow.
I have a hard time arguing against something that gives more opportunity to a user group.......but there will likely be a slight increase in hunters during the ML season because of the ms permit hunters.
There probably should be a poll to see how many archers would have bought the ms permit if the proposed change wasn't on the table. ??? Or how many would skip the ML seasons because they either don't want to hunt w/ a ML or don't want to buy or borrow one?
Post by: bucklucky on April 05, 2012, 11:52:32 AM
Anyway, No way Id buy a muzzy tag to hunt with my bow, I will use my muzzleloader thank you!
Post by: Fullabull on April 05, 2012, 12:09:03 PM
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2012, 12:15:52 PM
If the results hold, I drew a MS elk permit :tup: looks like I might have to look at a ML.. Don't worry Hirshey, I'm an ethical hunter and would never go into the woods without knowing my weapon completely! But would rather hunt with my bow :)
:tup: :tup: :tup: very nice... I think with all the multi-season tags the WDFW should look into more in-depth harvest statistics... the season, if the harvester utilized the multi-season tag to harvest the animal, and the weapon used. Could be some useful information for them in terms of setting seasons as well as the increased success of hunters who utilized the MS tags. That would eliminate some of the bickering over what hunters have the best seasons, too.. :dunno:
Post by: Gobble Doc on April 05, 2012, 12:36:59 PM
Post by: deleted BGS on April 05, 2012, 12:46:31 PM
Post by: bucklucky on April 05, 2012, 12:46:46 PM
Post by: JPhelps on April 05, 2012, 12:56:17 PM
How could it be that those 10% get lucky 90% of the time? :chuckle:
Pretty sure it doesn't matter what weapon or season those 10% choose either.
Post by: Chase 1 on April 05, 2012, 01:24:00 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2012, 01:59:10 PM
Post by: Snapshot on April 06, 2012, 08:27:53 AM
Post by: buckfvr on April 06, 2012, 08:53:32 AM
The multiple-season tag is the problem.
:yeah: And to all the talk about better harvest data, etc. .......they dont care, they dont care, they dont care......SHOW ME THE MONEY !!!!! thats all it is. :bdid:
Post by: bigpaw 77 on April 06, 2012, 09:35:35 AM
Post by: coachcw on April 06, 2012, 12:29:45 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on September 02, 2015, 06:26:11 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 02, 2015, 06:39:36 PM
Ok bringing this back because I can't find anywhere in the rules about hunting with my bow during muzzleloader season. I have multi season taglook at page 52 in the regs, on the side of the page in blue
Post by: Muleyman27 on September 03, 2015, 11:06:40 AM
Another question: can I take my bow and muzzleloader out at the same time durin ml season so if I get close enough for a bow shot great but If not then use the ml.?
Post by: bobcat on September 03, 2015, 11:08:26 AM
Another question: can I take my bow and muzzleloader out at the same time durin ml season so if I get close enough for a bow shot great but If not then use the ml.?
Yes. Both are legal during muzzleloader season.
Post by: Muleyman27 on September 03, 2015, 11:13:55 AM
Thanks again
Post by: 520backyard on September 03, 2015, 11:27:24 AM
An injunction is not a lawsuit. It will be filed by me on behalf of myself and the resident muzzy hunters in the state of Wa. It will force the WDFW to defend their actions and decisions concerning the change. What? They dont have the money to defend their decisions, please. Lots of DP money!
Post by: SureThing on September 06, 2015, 09:24:48 AM
Quote
Before making a snap decision archers should consider that tag allocation is based heavily on the number of tags purchased by each user group. If your an archer and wanna try the ML season with archery gear for a year or two, don't be surprised when you open the regs in a couple years and find that your chances of being drawn for an archery permit have been greatly reduced.This is only part of the equation. It is also based on user group success. If muzzleloaders were not so efficient at killing their quota of the resource then they would have more days and units to hunt. If anything allowing someone to use archery equipment during ML season only helps muzzleloaders. You are increasing the user group size and decreasing the efficiency of the weapon choice statistically. That equates to more days, more units and more quota.
I vote no on the original post. I'm an archer and will only put in for archery special permits and seasons. The multi season permit is the problem. It hurts all user groups.
Post by: Mtn.Ghost on September 06, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 06, 2015, 12:55:21 PM
Post by: Mtn.Ghost on September 06, 2015, 03:52:18 PM