Post by: passing-thru on April 07, 2012, 11:37:23 AM
Post by: boneaddict on April 07, 2012, 11:52:21 AM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 07, 2012, 09:31:30 PM
Post by: passing-thru on April 07, 2012, 10:10:03 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 07, 2012, 10:12:45 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
So i have been doing some research and nowhere in the regs or WAC have i been able to find the description or definition of the term "lesser weapon". Any insight into this term that has any real bearing or significance would be appreciated. Is there an RCW or WAC for this term or is it just a colloqualism?
Post by: boneaddict on April 08, 2012, 12:14:32 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 12:37:28 PM
The language is on here in one of the highlited proposals. Where :dunno:, your search button works just as good as mine. :)
[/quote
Not helping!
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 12:46:15 PM
I wouldnt count on archery being allowed durung ML season just yet.
So i have been doing some research and nowhere in the regs or WAC have i been able to find the description or definition of the term "lesser weapon". Any insight into this term that has any real bearing or significance would be appreciated. Is there an RCW or WAC for this term or is it just a colloqualism?
There is no "lesser weapon" term in any law that I have ever seen. It's just a term that people made up is my guess.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
I wouldnt count on archery being allowed durung ML season just yet.
So i have been doing some research and nowhere in the regs or WAC have i been able to find the description or definition of the term "lesser weapon". Any insight into this term that has any real bearing or significance would be appreciated. Is there an RCW or WAC for this term or is it just a colloqualism?
There is no "lesser weapon" term in any law that I have ever seen. It's just a term that people made up is my guess.
I suspect you are right. Interesting!
Post by: KillBilly on April 08, 2012, 02:10:01 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 02:12:34 PM
It has always been legal and acceptable to hunt a modern rifle season with a bow. Since Archery and Muzzle loader are both considered primitive weapons, they don't consider going Archery during Muzzle loader season as using a lesser weapon or downgrade.
Lets hope you are right and that the commission sees the light and doesnt allow archers into ML:
Post by: Snapshot on April 08, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
It's a "multi-season tag holder" thing. Why do you not call it what it is?
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
Your incorrect assumption that this is an "archers" thing is getting a little old...just saying.
It's a "multi-season tag holder" thing. Why do you not call it what it is?
Keep sayin. But i know for a fact a ML did'nt suggest letting archery in ML season....just saying. It had to come from somewhere and the archery community is where it originated from. Its self evident; and if the standup archers in this state have any backbone at all they will contact the wdfw and tell them this rule change letting archery into the ML season is a bad idea. You have till 4-13/14 to do so. Please do. The contact e-mails are: director@dfw.wa.gov and commission@dfw.wa.gov or STFU!
Post by: hughjorgan on April 08, 2012, 07:54:06 PM
Your incorrect assumption that this is an "archers" thing is getting a little old...just saying.
It's a "multi-season tag holder" thing. Why do you not call it what it is?
Keep sayin. But i know for a fact a ML did'nt suggest letting archery in ML season....just saying. It had to come from somewhere and the archery community is where it originated from. Its self evident; and if the standup archers in this state have any backbone at all they will contact the wdfw and tell them this rule change letting archery into the ML season is a bad idea. You have till 4-13/14 to do so. Please do. The contact e-mails are: director@dfw.wa.gov and commission@dfw.wa.gov or STFU!
Snapshot would know a bit about what was and wasn't lobbied for by the archery community.... That being said I drew multi season elk and will be hunting the muzzy season with my bow! :cryriver:
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 08:00:43 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on April 08, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
Dont bet on it hughie boy.
The regs are already being printed as you we speak, keep on beating on your chest, it won't change a thing.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 08:33:17 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on April 08, 2012, 08:39:03 PM
Hewie the regs wont even be formally adopted till 4-13/14. Im not beating on my chest hewie boy, im beatin on the WDFW and whoever proposed the rule change to allow archers into the ML seasons. If the regs are being printed now i'd sure like the phone no: of the printer. Help a brother out here wont ya?
The meetings are just a formality, they already have there minds made up.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 08:53:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 09:00:47 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 09:04:30 PM
He probably knows, just like a lot of us know, that in the past the regulations have been available just a few days after the April meeting in which they supposedly were just approved and adopted. Those print shops sure work amazingly fast. :rolleyes:
I knew i was right about you Bobcat.
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 09:06:58 PM
He probably knows, just like a lot of us know, that in the past the regulations have been available just a few days after the April meeting in which they supposedly were just approved and adopted. Those print shops sure work amazingly fast. :rolleyes:
I knew i was right about you Bobcat.
And I knew I was right about you. :tup:
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 09:11:18 PM
He probably knows, just like a lot of us know, that in the past the regulations have been available just a few days after the April meeting in which they supposedly were just approved and adopted. Those print shops sure work amazingly fast. :rolleyes:
I knew i was right about you Bobcat.
You were in on this proposal for archery in ML all along eh? You sure havent come out against it, not one peep. Who's ear do you have?
And I knew I was right about you. :tup:
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 09:14:30 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 09:30:58 PM
Why would I be against it when I see the benefits of allowing archery equipment during muzzleloader seasons? I've already stated several times that I see advantages to all hunters in the changing of this rule. The change would allow more flexibility for all hunters and provide options that we now don't have. There's no downside to it as far as I can tell.
I didnt say you were against it. I know your 110% behind it. More flexibility for archers, not all hunters.
Not ML's. You will be interested to read the letter i sent to the Commission on fri. Im gonna let them ruminate on it till monday night, then ill post it on this thread. You archers have really opened up a bad can of worms. Somebody was'nt thinking right when they came up with this. Ce Le Gerre!
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 09:38:21 PM
Why would I be against it when I see the benefits of allowing archery equipment during muzzleloader seasons? I've already stated several times that I see advantages to all hunters in the changing of this rule. The change would allow more flexibility for all hunters and provide options that we now don't have. There's no downside to it as far as I can tell.
I didnt say you were against it. I know your 110% behind it. More flexibility for archers, not all hunters.
Not ML's. You will be interested to read the letter i sent to the Commission on fri. Im gonna let them ruminate on it till monday night, then ill post it on this thread. You archers have really opened up a bad can of worms. Somebody was'nt thinking right when they came up with this. Ce Le Gerre!
Yes, it would provide more flexibility for ALL hunters, if you choose to take advantage of it. If you don't, well then that is your loss. With this change I can now hunt a parcel of private property with my muzzleloader tag. The owner of the property will only allow bow hunting. The unit has a early and a late muzzleloader season. But only has an early archery season. So if I want to hunt during the late season, I need a muzzleloader tag, and I also need to hunt with a bow. That's just one example. There are many more. As I said, there's no downside to the change.
Post by: hughjorgan on April 08, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Why would I be against it when I see the benefits of allowing archery equipment during muzzleloader seasons? I've already stated several times that I see advantages to all hunters in the changing of this rule. The change would allow more flexibility for all hunters and provide options that we now don't have. There's no downside to it as far as I can tell.
I didnt say you were against it. I know your 110% behind it. More flexibility for archers, not all hunters.
Not ML's. You will be interested to read the letter i sent to the Commission on fri. Im gonna let them ruminate on it till monday night, then ill post it on this thread. You archers have really opened up a bad can of worms. Somebody was'nt thinking right when they came up with this. Ce Le Gerre!
It has been stated before archers didn't lobby for this change, so no need to have a beef with us. Sounds like the WDFW rubbed you the wrong way. And where was the muzzleloader group that organizes and lobbies for allocation at in this fight? Does one even exist?
Post by: washelkhunter on April 08, 2012, 09:43:27 PM
Why would I be against it when I see the benefits of allowing archery equipment during muzzleloader seasons? I've already stated several times that I see advantages to all hunters in the changing of this rule. The change would allow more flexibility for all hunters and provide options that we now don't have. There's no downside to it as far as I can tell.
I didnt say you were against it. I know your 110% behind it. More flexibility for archers, not all hunters.
Not ML's. You will be interested to read the letter i sent to the Commission on fri. Im gonna let them ruminate on it till monday night, then ill post it on this thread. You archers have really opened up a bad can of worms. Somebody was'nt thinking right when they came up with this. Ce Le Gerre!
Yes, it would provide more flexibility for ALL hunters, if you choose to take advantage of it. If you don't, well then that is your loss. With this change I can now hunt a parcel of private property with my muzzleloader tag. The owner of the property will only allow bow hunting. The unit has a early and a late muzzleloader season. But only has an early archery season. So if I want to hunt during the late season, I need a muzzleloader tag, and I also need to hunt with a bow. That's just one example. There are many more. As I said, there's no downside to the change.
Certainly not for you Bobcat, not for you.
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 09:57:13 PM
Yes, it would provide more flexibility for ALL hunters, if you choose to take advantage of it. If you don't, well then that is your loss. With this change I can now hunt a parcel of private property with my muzzleloader tag. The owner of the property will only allow bow hunting. The unit has a early and a late muzzleloader season. But only has an early archery season. So if I want to hunt during the late season, I need a muzzleloader tag, and I also need to hunt with a bow. That's just one example. There are many more. As I said, there's no downside to the change.
Certainly not for you Bobcat, not for you.
Well again, tell me, what is the downside for you? Is it just that you have a phobia for people with bows walking around in the woods? Wouldn't you rather someone hunting in your area have a bow instead of a muzzleloader? This way they can shoot no further than about 50 yards, while if they had a muzzleloader they'd be good to 100? If someone chooses to voluntarily limit their range by using a bow, how is that bad for you? I don't get it. It seems like a positive, not a negative.
Post by: Curly on April 09, 2012, 09:42:24 AM
Hewie the regs wont even be formally adopted till 4-13/14. Im not beating on my chest hewie boy, im beatin on the WDFW and whoever proposed the rule change to allow archers into the ML seasons. If the regs are being printed now i'd sure like the phone no: of the printer. Help a brother out here wont ya?
The meetings are just a formality, they already have there minds made up.
:yeah: It's a done deal. It is frustrating, but that is the way it seems. :bash:
Post by: washelkhunter on April 09, 2012, 10:44:35 AM
He probably knows, just like a lot of us know, that in the past the regulations have been available just a few days after the April meeting in which they supposedly were just approved and adopted. Those print shops sure work amazingly fast. :rolleyes:
Heres the truth: I just called Seattle Times Publishing, the regs are scheduled to be printed on 4-23.
Post by: Snapshot on April 09, 2012, 06:15:05 PM
He probably knows, just like a lot of us know, that in the past the regulations have been available just a few days after the April meeting in which they supposedly were just approved and adopted. Those print shops sure work amazingly fast. :rolleyes:
Heres the truth: I just called Seattle Times Publishing, the regs are scheduled to be printed on 4-23.
...which gives them ten days to react to any floor changes that the commission makes in their decision process. Very typical...nothing clandescent about it. Just business as usual.
Post by: Snapshot on April 09, 2012, 06:30:24 PM
Forgive my bluntness, please.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 09, 2012, 07:03:15 PM
What a bunch of bull...(no disrespect...just gonna call this like I see it). Why, washelkhunter, do you have it out for archery hunters? You have made some decent points so I know you aren't a fool, but one could certainly make such nonsense for foolishness. Cannot you see that the hunters who stand to gain from this stupid proposal are the ones who are paying top dollar for hunting? They are the multi-tag winners...check that...not winners...rather BUYERS. ...buying the privilege to hunt any dang time and place they want whilst longbowmen like me and muzzle loaders like you are faced with ever shrinking amounts of time in the field. I hope you are successful in your quest. It shouldn't be all about the money but it has become that way, and maybe if you are successful it will take the money grubbers down a notch.
Forgive my bluntness, please.
I have nothing against archers. When i've drawn the MS tag i hunt with archery gear during AR season. Muzzleloader during ML season because thats the rule, You use ML only during ML season. Archery only during AR season. Its really not to difficult to comprehend is it?
Post by: Snapshot on April 10, 2012, 07:48:47 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 10, 2012, 09:19:50 AM
Is it so difficult to comprehend that the probable REASON this was pursued by whomsoever was to benefit buyers of the Multi-season permits? Darn few others would gain anything by it! It appears to me to be the department's way of appeasing their top-dollar spenders; people like YOU who can afford to buy a multi-season permit.
Right! Benefiting one usergroup over another. You are right i can afford to p/up the ms tag i drew for deer this year, but im not. $180 bucks for one deer? Someone here proposed 3 transport tags for ms and i think thats what we need for that sort of money. 1 for AR, ML and MF. With the current weapon restrictions of course for each season.
Post by: Snapshot on April 10, 2012, 04:54:46 PM
Right! Benefiting one usergroup over another. You are right i can afford to p/up the ms tag i drew for deer this year, but im not. $180 bucks for one deer? Someone here proposed 3 transport tags for ms and i think thats what we need for that sort of money. 1 for AR, ML and MF. With the current weapon restrictions of course for each season.
So, "what we need" is for only the wealthy get to hunt? Chriminy! First folks get divided up by weapon (which I really don't have a problem with) and now it appears you'd suggest we should be further divided by social class (which I think really blows). I think you would fit in nicely over in Europe, WEH.
I'm getting the *#/@ away from this computer for a few days....see y'all.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on April 10, 2012, 05:02:39 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 11, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
Post by: Curly on April 11, 2012, 01:44:14 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 11, 2012, 01:52:53 PM
Dave Ware. The permit system is his baby.
Is he a commissioner and did he initiate the rule change to allow AR in ML season?
Post by: Bob33 on April 11, 2012, 01:59:29 PM
Post by: Curly on April 11, 2012, 02:03:43 PM
Dave Ware. The permit system is his baby.
Is he a commissioner and did he initiate the rule change to allow AR in ML season?
No, not a commissioner. He is a WDFW employee........Game Division Manager. He started the current permit system and will likely be the one saying the quote that Bob33 just posted. I would assume that the proposal to allow archery during ML seasons would have been blessed by Dave Ware or even could be his idea.
Post by: CoachNemo on April 11, 2012, 02:28:25 PM
Couldn't the state make more money if they allowed you to outright purchase a multi-season tag and allow for you to use a "lesser" weapon during any season?
Say you have a hunter that wants to hunt as often as he can, let him or her purchase a $300 "multi-season" tag and they can hunt with their bow during any of the seasons.
ML the same but only for ML and Modern, costing let's say $200.
Modern price stays the same.
Individual seasons can stay the same as well, if you only want to hunt with a bow during archery season, ML during ML or modern during modern.
I understand during the rut the woods would be filled with hunters, but wouldn't this allow for more opportunities as well? As a newbie I would rather spend the money and give myself the flexibility to go as often as possible.
Just my :twocents:
Post by: seansfire on April 11, 2012, 06:46:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 11, 2012, 06:58:02 PM
If you apply for, and draw, a multi-season tag, and then purchase that tag for an extra $180, you can then hunt the modern firearm season in additon to the archery season.
Post by: seansfire on April 11, 2012, 07:00:22 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 11, 2012, 07:10:19 PM
With an archery tag you can only hunt archery seasons.
If you apply for, and draw, a multi-season tag, and then purchase that tag for an extra $180, you can then hunt the modern firearm season in additon to the archery season.
NOT TRUE: That rule change has not been approved as of yet.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on April 11, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 11, 2012, 07:14:18 PM
:dunno:Huh.... That rule has always been there. Perfectly legal to hunt modern with archery with MS.
Right, MF not Muzzleloeader.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on April 11, 2012, 07:18:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 11, 2012, 07:20:49 PM
:dunno:Huh.... That rule has always been there. Perfectly legal to hunt modern with archery with MS.
Right, MF not Muzzleloeader.
Which is what I said.
Post by: Chesapeake on April 23, 2012, 02:37:27 PM
It makes it more interesting to a bowhunter if he can extend bow season and doesnt need to go buy a muzzle loader.
Its a simple change, they likely wont catch too much flack over it, and it may sell a few more $180 deer tags.
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2012, 03:06:05 PM
It would seem to me WDFW is just trying to drum up ways to get folks to buy the Multi-season tag.
It makes it more interesting to a bowhunter if he can extend bow season and doesnt need to go buy a muzzle loader.
Its a simple change, they likely wont catch too much flack over it, and it may sell a few more $180 deer tags.
:yeah: