Hunting Washington Forum
Other Activities => Fishing => Topic started by: Shadow Cat on July 19, 2007, 12:14:15 PM
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I used to fish the Skokomish river quite a bit. There was always compitition between the tribe and regular fishermen in the river. Last year I went down to the bridge by Hunter farms and saw the nets. I could deal with that because some fish were still getting by. What I could NOT deal with was when I went to the other side of the bridge and looked over and saw a few HUNDRED (NO EXAGERATION) of dead kings up on the bank that had been gutted for the eggs. I talked to a WDF officer about it and was told nothing could be done about it and that the eggs were worth more than the meat! I don't EVER want to hear another word about a buffalo killed and left on a prarie over a hundred years ago! >:( :bash:
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that sucks huge...back in new york when fishing the lake ontario trib. salmon runs, we used to sell the eggs of the hen kings we'd catch. now mind you, we also took fillets home. the $$ we made off the eggs would pay round trip gas money for a 4 hour drive one way if thats any indication of what they are worth.
blame it on pautzke's :chuckle:
check this out.
http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=41243
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Damnit...........I have nothing good to say about them wasteful sons of bitches. Nothing will change. This state is run by a bunch of bitches. WDFW will never do anything. Too many higher ups are in the pockets of these damn induns. They will wipe out a major fishery and move on. They will find some other species to exploit and destroy....all for the sake of money. I guess casinos ain't enough for them greedy *censored*s. I feel a hell of alot better knowing we wiped out there buffalo.....*censored*s
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Thanks for the link. I worked for the US Fish & Wildlife Service in Lacey, WA up until July 7th and know that they are eyeball deep in FOIA request involving Indian litigation of one sort or another. Things are getting to tied up in red tape and nothing is being done in the mean time.
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The state is afraid of hurting peoples feelings....thats what you get when dummycrats are in charge.....with the help of bleeding heart liberal judges. Something has to be done. They should have to abide by the same rules as we do.....reservation or not.
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I agree. Some of the things I see, hear and read gets my blood boiling. >:( Some of the biologist I worked with used to just drive me insane!!!
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Welcome Shadowcat, we have a similar background. My dad used to work down at the mouth of Chamber's creek and would see hundred's of Chum stacked up rotting because the tribe's were after Chinook, or Coho, still makes me >:(
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This is so different from the Alaskan natives I have been around. They harvest the eggs for sale in Japan but all the meat is harvested for canning, smoking, and filets all for sale in local stores and of course the canned and smoked can be shipped to the Lower 48 or over seas.
In fact the new ethic of catch and release was considered a slap in the face to the salmon, rainbow etc. by the old folks when I first moved there. Now a days it's more accepted that some folks will return fish to the water after catching them and it is not a bad thing to do.
I was always impressed by the natives along the Kuskaquim River during the salmon runs. All the fish were used for the up coming winter etc.
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That is typical of the Skoks! They are notorious for poaching wether it be fish of game. >:(
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The state is afraid of hurting peoples feelings....thats what you get when dummycrats are in charge.....with the help of bleeding heart liberal judges. Something has to be done. They should have to abide by the same rules as we do.....reservation or not.
Seriously...the State can't do a damn thing. I guarantee they'd like to. Cracks me up when people blame Indian issues on local gov't when it's a federal deal. They don't call it the Tulalip Indian NATION for nothing. You want change with the Indians? Better talk to your buddy GW.
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IMHO, what outdoors folks like ourselves should do, is to video document what we see, and attempt to get it on the tv, as often as possible. I think that most people in this state are in a state of guilt, and think that the "poor" indians just want fish and wildlife for their consumption. I too have seen the elk shot at St Helens National monument. I did not get video of the slaughter, but have video of the aftermath.
If more video shows up on local TV, I bet this would be more damaging to their reputation and may cause some change, maybe....hopefully...
Crap, who am I kidding, you know darn well that the local liberal TV stations would never air anything that would make the tribes look bad.
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Iceman, You are right about that. You would never get something like that on TV. The money the stations get for advertising there casinos would vanish in a heartbeat so they dont want to bite the hand that is "feeding"them.
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Public Broadcasting Station......lol....Someone gets the video, I'll sell out the bucks for a half hour
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Not to take sides, as tribes are slowly (very slowly) starting to take an interest in natrual resources, noting the proposed hatchery by the Colville tribe at bridgeport (projected to be the largest producing hatchery on the entire Columbia, if and when it's operational) and the hatcheries run by the Puyallup and Muckleshoot tribes, which put into the Puyallup river system over 800,000 coho fry a year (and just as many chinook fry), but WE (sportsman) should use modern technology and public persuasion to our benefit. For instance, how about videoing the waste in nets, drinking (and becoming extremely drunk) in public, and use of illegal substances by other's (namely those I have personally witnessed by "tribal members" which are outcast if we had access to their records) and put those videos and photo's into a presentation form. Then anytime the WDFW has a "public forum" type meeting, simply have several people show up, sign up to talk (usually a 2-5 minute time limit) and then defer their time to one guy who simply pushes "play" on a portable TV and SHOW them what we are talking about.
What's the old saying...a picture is worth a thousand words...
I think it was last year or two years ago, a member from another board observed some "tribale members" from the puyallup tribe smoking pot under the bridge by decorsey creek. He took photo's of them and provided copies to law enforcement (not just tribal police but also WDFW officers) he then posted them on the internet, and the game agents (bot tribal and WDFW) name and contact numbers. It turns out the presure from all of the other board members seeing the photos adn calling the agents personally got those tribal members arrested and their fishing rights taken away...
Just a thought.
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I watched a whole boat load of salmon rot at hoodsport. They emptied their nets and then went and got drunk and left their catch in the sun. It was there three days. The stink got pretty bad. Talk about a cluster they were netting fish while the sportsman were catching them. There were actually Sportsman throwing their lures in the ent and Indians getting pissed off.
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The Skoks use to dump salmon up the south fork above camp Govey where we use to fish for steelies. We would come acrossed truck loads dumped, the smell was horrible.
That was back in the seventies.
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All I know is SOMETHING ne3eds to be done. The problem I ran into when I reported it to the state guys was that it was on tribal land and they were more interested in pilling ME off the river three times that day to check my license and to see if my hooks were barbed or not! The tribal police did not want to get involved. I am going to be going down there soon and when I do, I will have my video camera...
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Get some still shots. (Pack a sidearm too)
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Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen them on the Tulalip with a pickup truck load of salmon selling them for $1.50 a piece. The rotting in the nets while they're on a drunk is enough to piss off Mother Teresa.
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isn't there snagging and other poaching issues going on on that river by white people too? i sure don't know much about the river but it sure sounds like the skok has a lot of issues that need to be dealt with including the indian issues. i've seen that enforcement in the form of wdfw and federal enforcement is in place.
on the way to a fix?
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Fished it saturday and sunday. I have been fishing it for 3-4 years now, and there are plenty of white snaggers to go with the indian ones. Was told that 19 indians were busted for snagging this past week. I hope it was true. The problem is, all the wdfw does is drive up and down the road. If they stopped to watch, they could have a hayday writing tickets.
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The problem is, all the wdfw does is drive up and down the road. If they stopped to watch, they could have a hayday writing tickets.
That would require officer lazy fu$% to get out of is rig and actually do some work....for once. And don't bother with the induns....officer lazy fu$% doesn't want that headache
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I can see both sides of this coin. Yes i agree with you all the waster is sicking. But they do have the fishing rights and i dont think wdfw can do any thing about it. Falls under federal treatys with the indians. As far as them getting drunk well i guess the whites can be blamed for that cant we., i mean we the ones who started selling them fire water so we could take advantage of the fur deals. Then there is the whole land issue where we killed man of them for a hunk of land for a farm or gold or what not. Every one needs to work on this together to try to fix the problems. Not just say hey they are dirty injuns. Name calling and bicering wont fix the issue....
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Here's my biggest problem....
They take waaayyy more than they use (i.e. throwing the bucks away, usually Chum, because they don't have eggs to sell). Then, I thought the treaties were about getting back their "traditional" fishing rights? So far, I haven't seen any of them out in hand-carved canoes, and I'm not positive, but I don't think they had monofilament nets back when Lewis and Clark were around. When the Makahs wanted to go whale hunting, I wouldn't have had so much a problem if they wanted to take their canoes out and harpoon one and let it drag them to Canada. Instead, they had motor boats and a .50 cal rifle. I realize they harpooned it before they shot it, but still....
They have casinos which make them a ton of money, they really don't need the money from the fish, so why? At the same time, there are some tribes that aren't as bad. Some of them run very successful hatcheries, and without those hatcheries, there wouldn't be as big of runs.
/End rant :)
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If more video shows up on local TV, I bet this would be more damaging to their reputation and may cause some change, maybe....hopefully...
Ice - There is always public access television!
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True, I am just bummed out about how they do not seem to get any bad press at all. Public access would be a way to get it on the air, but how many folks watch public access?
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True, I am just bummed out about how they do not seem to get any bad press at all. Public access would be a way to get it on the air, but how many folks watch public access?
Probably not too many. It would be nice to get something aired on the news, but you probably have to have connections to get it on there.
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if you're going to put it on the news, be sure to include all the 1-tooth wonders snagging too...get them while you're at it. that needs clean-up as bad as the indian problems. poaching's a problem wether it's indians or us white people.
wierd, but there's more talk on one of the big local fishing BB's right now regarding snagging and littering by white folks on that river than there is about the indian issues. 99% of the time it's the other way around and a few threads have been nuked over the issue over there. i saw there is a skok river cleanup party scheduled for those that are interested. you can pm me and i'll share the website where the info's at if you don't know.
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Since the Skoks are only 'entitled' to 50% of the overall catch, including the Skokomish River itself, we need to pressure our DFW to get off their ass and hoof the riverbanks to tally the dead on the shore, those should absolutely count against the total take and I would bet cash they are not counted!
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Probably not counted at all Dman. Too many pansies in this state. It is really a shame. Indians will lie, steal, and cheat to get their ways. We all know that elk wasn't part of their natural diets....but they still get to kill em. We all know they didn't have 308's and MONO fishing tackle. I wouldn't bitch as much if they did it like their ancestors, but they don't. I probably have more in-site on induns then most. I have dealt with them my whole life. Every now and then you will get a good, honest, proud person who wants to make a positive impact....but most of the time not, well.....here in WA anyways. They were conquered, get over it. In all reality, as far as conquering goes, they shouldn't have *censored* for rights, but oh well. Lets just keep on letting the Libbie judge who eats his granola and wares his sandals keep passing laws for the "poor" induns. Makes me wanna puke
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i hate to see salmon rot, especially when i spend so much time tryin' to catch em. by far the worst display of 'treaty rights' iv seen was about 10 years ago, i was fillin' up the truck in coleville after gettin some grub during the late season and 2 trucks pulled in full of indians with each truck having at least 5 or 6 HUGE muley bucks and a number of muley does hangin out the back. they were hoopin and hollerin about having to get back to unload the deer so they could go up and get the 'rest of the herd' one said something along the lines of 'we already got all the bucks, no one will steal the does, we'll get em in the morning.' one even had the balls to ask me if i wanted to buy some meat.... somehow i kept my cool or else i have a feelin' i woulda gone to jail for a long time as there would have been a few less indians in coleville. it was the 96 winter and there was a huge snow that week and all the muleys had come down to the lowlands tryin to get the hell outa dodge only to be met with indian thugs ready to pick em off like fish in a barrel. #$@%$ indians.
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I went down to the Skok on Friday with a friend of mine. I was surprised to see that there weren't any nets in the river. When I got on it, I saw why: most of the fish were young jacks! I have NEVER seen so many jacks in the river. I was talking to one of the guys counting fish and he said the same thing. There were a few good fish in the river, but not to many. I am hoping they will move up with the rain, but I am afraid the nets will as well.
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I drive over the Skok every day. Today they had their nets from bank to bank in Purdy Creek 10 feet downstream from the 101 bridge and just on the other side of the highway from the hatchery. To me that is pure b.s.! If they are so concerned about culverts blocking the salmon, why do they block the culverts with their nets? It makes me sick to see those bastages netting only 100 or so yards away from the hatchery! >:( The guys that were doing it were as white as I am and had their kids packing the biggest fish up to their rig an piling them up in a tote. I noticed a few jacks that were just tossed into the brush to rot! :bash: Theiving pricks!!!!
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Some of the tribes have their own hatcheries. The Muckelsoot tribe for one. In 2006 they released the following from their hatchery.
FallKing: 492,500 Summer King: 434,917 Coho:160,000 chum: 1,770,000 = 2,857,417 Fish.
How about it guys? I'll bet that myself and some of you that visit these forums and thousands of other people catch a fair share of those fish. I personally know men from the Tulalip, Muckelshoot and Puyallup tribes that fish and you could not ask for better men to be around and spend time with. To lump everyone together is, well, it is 2007 and you would think that as human beings we would be beyond that. We have quite a few anglos breaking F&G laws also. Until we clean up our own camp we shouldn't pass judgement on someone elses. Just my obsevations on this topic.
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KentHunter, do you happen to know where those hatcheries are? the only ones I know (on the Green, Duwamish, Puyallup, Carbon, Skok) are ran by the state? I was just curious where the tribe hatcheries were?
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To lump everyone together is, well, it is 2007 and you would think that as human beings we would be beyond that. We have quite a few anglos breaking F&G laws also. Until we clean up our own camp we shouldn't pass judgement on someone elses. Just my obsevations on this topic.
Comeon, we can lump all the Aholes together. I surely would never defend an "anglo" or any other non-tribal individual based on race. If some jerk chooses to poach, or waste wildlife, or trash the place I will lump them all together, as Aholes. Just because some non-tribal loser on a riversedge decides to break laws, should not preclude me from commenting on the activity of the tribes. We non natives do patrol ourselves. Many feel that the tribes do not patrol themselves, and look the other way regarding abuse and waste.
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I agree... Poaching or wasting of wildlife is just that. Regardless of who does it (or what race). It is WRONG!!!! >:( Just because you have a permit to take game doesn't give you a permit to waste it. Hearing this just makes me sick. Sick! Sick! Sick!!! :bash: :bash:
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Seems the indians are waisting a lot of water creatures... salmon... whales... >:(
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Just watching that MF'er on the TV, claiming that he was proud of himself for killing the whale, that he should have done it years ago really pisses me off, and makes him look like a *censored*.
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For thousands of years the indians lived in peace and harmony with nature and respected the critters they hunted.The Native Americans don't live anymore...they are dead in a way.
Whats happening today is just the results of what happened to them around 200 yrs. ago.
Loosing your spiritual beliefs and land,being fed alcohol,and living in a money based materialistic society would make anybody greedy and loose respect.
We can only blaim our ancestors and the system,learn from it and move forward working together to change it...and yes getting politicaly involved :rolleyes:.
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No offense but the whole "living in peace and harmony with nature and respected the critters they hunt" is a myth not supported by the historical facts. Our history is full of myths like this to make us better or worse about ourselves.
They were seasonal hunter/fisherman yes. They also enslaved each other, and performed tribal genocide.
Read from the Lewis and Clark Journey of the Corps of Discovery. Lewis proclaimed he had never met a dishonest Indian.......until he hit the Columbia. Dishonesty (lying, cheating, and stealing) was a way of life ingrained in the Columbia basin to coastal tribes.
Kind of like white men I guess.
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No offence taken ;).Yes human nature is human nature in all races,and there has always been war,greed,stealing,and cheating etc. and always will be.
And yes history is full of myths,BUT history is always rewritten by the victors too.
Native people lived in the "survival of the fittest world" and it was barbaric times.But all the American tribes that I've researched ALL had a very strong connection to the creator,the land,rivers,animals,and the four seasons.They depended on all these resources for renewal and basic survival,so in a sense it was their religion.
But what I don't like to see is this belief system being used for political gain, and that's what's happening today...seems very hypocritical to me...going back to human nature again I guess :dunno: :bash:..
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Well said.
BTW
Reading my post from yesterday I did not intend it to sound as harsh as it reads.
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It's Wild...but peaple living wild have been around for thousands of years...where as any civilizations have lasted a very short time...
