Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 20, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
I for one fall into the sometimes category. Out hunting I normally have one in the open and occasionally walking to or from my car I may leave my jacket off. But I don’t all the time just cause I don’t feel like having every cop in the county called on my butt for doing nothing wrong.
Post by: Button Nubbs on April 20, 2012, 02:12:42 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 20, 2012, 02:19:44 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on April 20, 2012, 02:28:16 PM
The second time was one of their shift commanders or something like that and he assured me it wouldn't happen again and it hasn't.
When I leave my property, I conceal everytime.
Post by: kentrek on April 20, 2012, 02:34:45 PM
if i did carry i think i would carry as described in the previous posts.
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 20, 2012, 03:32:45 PM
Post by: FC on April 20, 2012, 03:45:41 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
Can you cite some evidence for this? I've never seen, read or heard of any.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 20, 2012, 03:53:06 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
Can you cite some evidence for this? I've never seen, read or heard of any.
:yeah:
Post by: Atroxus on April 20, 2012, 03:54:36 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
Can you cite some evidence for this? I've never seen, read or heard of any.
The "you'll be targeted by criminals" and/or "you'll be shot with your own weapon" arguments come up every time open carry is discussed. I have seen it more times than I can count on this forum and others, and yet I have never seen anyone able to back up this claim with evidence. Maybe this one will be different...but I am not holding my breath. ;)
Post by: Bob33 on April 20, 2012, 03:57:07 PM
Post by: FC on April 20, 2012, 04:34:12 PM
The "you'll be targeted by criminals" and/or "you'll be shot with your own weapon" arguments come up every time open carry is discussed. I have seen it more times than I can count on this forum and others, and yet I have never seen anyone able to back up this claim with evidence. Maybe this one will be different...but I am not holding my breath. ;)
[/quote]
Yeah I see it every time too and with the same results, I figured we could pour out that glass of kool-aid early this time!
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 20, 2012, 05:05:00 PM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 20, 2012, 05:31:47 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 20, 2012, 11:58:57 PM
Want to open carry? so there you are in line at 7-11, open carry. a robber walks in, sees you and you are dead, or people in line behind you, see your gun, take your gun and again your dead. if they make you nervous and you so much as touch your gun, Aggrevated assault, your in jail..
You want to survive a gun fight? surprise goes along way towards that end.
Post by: FC on April 21, 2012, 12:39:15 AM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Here is what I found:
Total number of officers killed from 2000-2009 (excluding 9-11) - 530
Total killed with guns (Same chart as above) - 490
Total killed with “own weapon,” (includes one baton!) - 41
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_27.html
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_14.html
For a specific group of people that wade into dangerous situations with weapons strapped to them on a regular basis, that really isn't many of them being killed by their own weapons.
To give credit for where I found the sources of this info:
http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2012/04/rosenthal-lies-about-cops-killed-with.html
Post by: Atroxus on April 21, 2012, 07:49:39 AM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Want to open carry? so there you are in line at 7-11, open carry. a robber walks in, sees you and you are dead, or people in line behind you, see your gun, take your gun and again your dead. if they make you nervous and you so much as touch your gun, Aggrevated assault, your in jail..
You want to survive a gun fight? surprise goes along way towards that end.
Actually we are just unwilling to take opinion as fact without evidence to back it. I have never been able to find anything that supports your claims. If you have, then post it up.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Post by: FALFire on April 21, 2012, 08:02:51 AM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Want to open carry? so there you are in line at 7-11, open carry. a robber walks in, sees you and you are dead, or people in line behind you, see your gun, take your gun and again your dead. if they make you nervous and you so much as touch your gun, Aggrevated assault, your in jail..
You want to survive a gun fight? surprise goes along way towards that end.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: That is some funny sheet right there!
Post by: rtspring on April 21, 2012, 09:04:08 AM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Want to open carry? so there you are in line at 7-11, open carry. a robber walks in, sees you and you are dead, or people in line behind you, see your gun, take your gun and again your dead. if they make you nervous and you so much as touch your gun, Aggrevated assault, your in jail..
You want to survive a gun fight? surprise goes along way towards that end.
OR if you look at it from a diffrent angle, it would deter the criminal from acting out a crime because he sees a man with a gun on his hip. I would hope most people that carry a gun are experienced enough not to let some thug take thier gun away. Its a personal choice, I see no problem with open carry or concealed. To each is his own....
Post by: toothfangclaw on April 21, 2012, 09:30:50 AM
Post by: goosegetter79 on April 21, 2012, 09:31:39 AM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Want to open carry? so there you are in line at 7-11, open carry. a robber walks in, sees you and you are dead, or people in line behind you, see your gun, take your gun and again your dead. if they make you nervous and you so much as touch your gun, Aggrevated assault, your in jail..
You want to survive a gun fight? surprise goes along way towards that end.
OR if you look at it from a diffrent angle, it would deter the criminal from acting out a crime because he sees a man with a gun on his hip. I would hope most people that carry a gun are experienced enough not to let some thug take thier gun away. Its a personal choice, I see no problem with open carry or concealed. To each is his own....
:yeah:
Post by: goosegetter79 on April 21, 2012, 09:33:13 AM
Post by: Atroxus on April 21, 2012, 09:58:08 AM
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?95995-Spoke-with-a-Convicted-Fellon-Saturday-about-OC
Quote
I ran into a kid at the carwash this past Saturday, I remember him and his brother from church when they were ankle-biters. Sadly both this guy and his brother ended up doing time in the state pokey (His brother is actually back in) while he has turned his life around. He recognized me and came up to start chatting- saw my sidearm and asked what I was carrying these days. Spent a few minutes talking about my firearm and he says, "you know, guys like my brother fear people like you."
I said, "armed people?"
He said, "no, armed people who don't bother covering it up."
I asked, "Why not just regular armed people?"
He said, "can't tell who is strapped and who isn't. Someone carrying concealed looks just like everyone else. See, when guys like him case a joint, they make sure that everything is in place. As soon as they see someone with a piece hangin' off their belt it messes with their rhythm. That throws them off and makes them shaky."
Then he said something that has stuck with me since, "my brother said it took him almost a week to get the picture of a guy with a gun out of his mind before he got the nerve up to go rob another store. It really freaked him out because it reminded him that there were people out there with guns that could shoot back."
I said (in my most sarcastic voice), "you can't tell me a hardened criminal is actually scared of a private citizen with a handgun."
His answer? "Thugs ain't no heroes... too lazy and it takes a lot of energy to get nerve up to go somewhere and do it. If you mess with that flow they gotta wait until they get jacked up enough to do it again. Could take a few minutes or a few days, but they won't go back to where they know somebody's packin'"
Thought provoking conversation. I just hope this kid has learned his lesson and stays out of trouble.
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 21, 2012, 10:19:44 AM
Post by: FC on April 21, 2012, 10:35:51 AM
look i dont need to go to sources with my "same" view for information to sway me or educate me, frankly its just silly. im just saying it makes no sense to place a target on your forehead for badguys and prosecutors to shoot at.
After you pretty much told us were idiots for not sharing what turned out to be your opinion, I shared the actual facts of the matter from as good a source as we are likely to get and now it is just a source that shares my "view"?
I'm not trying to be a dick here but I have seen this argument countless times and the same tired old BS always comes up and there is never any proof of it, I thought maybe you would like to know some of the facts about it, I guess I was wrong!
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 21, 2012, 10:43:00 AM
Post by: runamuk on April 21, 2012, 10:49:15 AM
Ohhh here's a good one.. at what point is it not open carry? what if I put on a coat? Or what do you do when driving around? How do you know where you can take one or not? I know federal/state buildings, but what about civilian owned stores? Is it all good unless otherwise posted?
well you can carry into the courthouse here so you can license your car and stuff but you cant go into the courtrooms, you have to go get a key and put it in a lockbox :) and now I know which defense attorney CC's lol cuz I saw him lock up his piece.....and he dont look the part .... bet he would be pegged liberal real quick.
as for carrying I dont carry a gun they are scary ;)
Post by: FALFire on April 21, 2012, 01:09:22 PM
now a little homework assignment for you. every evening, after dinner, go to the seven eleven in skyway, and by some icecream for desert while in open carry mode. odds are frankly...no harm will come to you, and i do mean that, but... do that for a couple weeks and then tell me you felt comfortable/safe waiting in line....lol... jus saying.
Been there, Done that! Nearly every evening, never felt threatened either. Also, used to go into Skyway Bowl every evening and sometimes 3 or 4 times a night and every time I carried open and never had a threat or any harm come to me, got a few hard looks though from the gangsters but they never tried anything. :dunno:
Post by: Greg30-06 on April 21, 2012, 01:48:04 PM
Carrying concealed doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t be harassed by police either. I have been pulled ohver before with 2 guns on me, I told the cop right away and in a polite manner so I wouldn’t alarm him (obviously I told him I had a permit as well). I still got taken out of the car, detained, my guns taken by the cops (to check if they were stolen I think), and patted down by his partner. I was let go obviously and they gave me my guns back but still a pain in the butt. Just sayinThey had absolutely no right to do that. If they want to see if its stollen they can take the serial number off the butt of the gun and call it in. If it was just a traffic stop they can't pull ypuout of the car take your guns and pat you down like a criminal. Remember cops will say you have to just to make them feel safer but they can't make you. Ask them to show you the rcw etc that says so.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 21, 2012, 02:05:24 PM
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 21, 2012, 02:47:23 PM
As for being a target, someone willing to shoot an armed person is probably just as willing shoot an unarmed person too. Cops carry will on duty all the time and just their presence seems to deter tons of bad guys. I think most bad guys would find an armed citizen more frieghtening than a cop, a cop will just try to arrest them or chase them if they run. They probably figure an armed citizen would just shoot them.
Big plus: No need for that pesky CPL (and its paper trail) when open carry. I have so I dont have to disarm when I get in a car, but just pointing it out.
Post by: PA BEN on April 21, 2012, 05:35:01 PM
Hunting I carry openly. Around town I'd rather not anyone know I have it. :twocents::yeah:
Post by: ghosthunter on April 21, 2012, 08:16:05 PM
I have a firearm on me or near me 99% of the time. Sometimes concealed sometimes not. :tup:
:yeah:
Post by: ghosthunter on April 21, 2012, 08:20:47 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
There has not been one open carrier shot in this state.
I am a member of open carry.org. I have been to two open carry events and I open or cc all the time depending on how hot it is.
I have never been contacted by anyone in four years.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 21, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Carrying concealed doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t be harassed by police either. I have been pulled over before with 2 guns on me, I told the cop right away and in a polite manner so I wouldn’t alarm him (obviously I told him I had a permit as well). I still got taken out of the car, detained, my guns taken by the cops (to check if they were stolen I think), and patted down by his partner. I was let go obviously and they gave me my guns back but still a pain in the butt. Just sayin
There is no requirement to declare firearms when stopped in this state. I only declare if they ask me to step out. Otherwise I say nothing.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 21, 2012, 08:33:28 PM
Ohhh here's a good one.. at what point is it not open carry? what if I put on a coat? Or what do you do when driving around? How do you know where you can take one or not? I know federal/state buildings, but what about civilian owned stores? Is it all good unless otherwise posted?
You are free to carry any where not prohibited by law. If a priivate property owner doesn't like it they can ask you to leave. Some post but not required to do so.
Check out open carry.org Washington forum for a list of business that are not gun friendly.
Costco is not gun friendly. Cabelas,sportsman warehouse,sports outfitters are. To name afew.
Post by: christopheri on April 21, 2012, 08:36:21 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
Show me statistics please.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 21, 2012, 08:40:55 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.
Show me statistics please.
He cant because there are non. It is his opinion, nothing else. :bash:
Post by: DoubleJ on April 22, 2012, 08:28:23 AM
Check out open carry.org Washington forum for a list of business that are not gun friendly.
Costco is not gun friendly. Cabelas,sportsman warehouse,sports outfitters are. To name afew.
Can you link that please? I can't find it.
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 22, 2012, 09:10:47 AM
This one goies to the Wa forum, there is one for every state.Check out open carry.org Washington forum for a list of business that are not gun friendly.
Costco is not gun friendly. Cabelas,sportsman warehouse,sports outfitters are. To name afew.
Can you link that please? I can't find it.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?131-Washington
Post by: Sliverslinger on April 22, 2012, 09:12:34 AM
Post by: TheHunt on April 22, 2012, 09:31:45 AM
Out side fishing, hunting, hiking, etc... ALWAYS
Post by: runamuk on April 22, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
Post by: 44 Flattop on April 22, 2012, 03:14:48 PM
Open carry, while legal and within your rights, is the surest way to get yourself shot, )most likely with your own weapon), and the most useful evidence of provocation that a prosecutor will use against you. of course i'm speaking of urban carry for the most part.Senator Schumer? Is that you?
No, I know its not Sen Schumer...............Mayor Bloomberg?
:chuckle:
44
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 22, 2012, 09:40:19 PM
i guess i should have stated it this way. when in open carry in town or city, you are vunerable to some tweaker, gansta, or mental idiot taking your gun from you without warning. personally i believe in the out of site out of mind theory, so that last bit is an opinion, the first is a warning.
secondly i am/was also giving a warning with regard to the majority of the elected officials in this state that includes by the way judges and prosecutors, who say/claim they support gun rights, which is done only for getting elected, but at the same time will attempt to force thier small minded comie pinko, che guevera idling, obuma loving attitude on you in the way of prosecution if you dare to attempt to defend your life. they will say you are a cowboy, they will say the open carry was provocative, and a jury of your so called peers, who by the way are a majority democrats will decide whether you go home to your family or go to jail. but hey....its your right :chuckle: i'll just keep carrying concealed, that by the way is my opinion, the last was simply a warning.
Post by: Bofire on April 22, 2012, 10:50:05 PM
Carl
Post by: MadHatter on April 22, 2012, 11:27:46 PM
i guess i should have stated it this way. when in open carry in town or city, you are vunerable to some tweaker, gansta, or mental idiot taking your gun from you without warning. personally i believe in the out of site out of mind theory, so that last bit is an opinion, the first is a warning.
That is what situational awareness is for... I Open carry everywhere, if someone is coming up on me, I know about them... PERIOD... I do one of three things that will give me the advantage. I can move to an area with a better tactical advantage (which also goes with the third thing). I can verbally challenge them. If I have moved and someone deliberately follows me again, they are a threat until deemed otherwise . Now I am not going to deadly force, but I am going to find out why they are coming at me and what they want. The one that normally works well is to give them a subtle hint that you are onto them and they will normally leave. Some people call it head-on-a-swivel, situational awareness... But either way, you just have to know who is around you and do some retention drills. Nothing is fool-proof, but training goes a long way as well as making sure that no one is in your bubble without you knowing about them being there.
I open carry because I can, I have for 5 years now and have every right to do so. I have been hassled by the cops once, and turned into a non-issue after about 2min. I did follow up with the officers supervisor and was assured that it would never happen again. My take is concealed or open or even taped it to your head... At least you take your (and your families) security seriously. If you don't like OC, fine. Don't OC. But please do not come up to me in public and tell me you think I am wrong because you do it differently.
Post by: kentrek on April 22, 2012, 11:47:18 PM
Post by: toothfangclaw on April 23, 2012, 12:36:21 AM
:) I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl
Just so I can understand, you would rather kill a person all be it in self defense, then to wear your piece in plane view and give the perp a chance to see it and second guess his move? no offense intended in my genuine questioning.
Post by: MadHatter on April 23, 2012, 12:41:41 AM
just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.
I worked in LE, and I know for me, some of it comes from that. But yes, I am always looking around and always know...1. Who is around me 2. Where nearest cover is 3. Where nearest concealment it 4. Where best egress is 5. What directions can I shoot safely without collateral damage, should the need arise.
As far as bringing the situation on, I can say I am actually more inclined to resolve things with people at a lower level because I do not want to ever have to use my weapon. Let me use this situation that happened to me about 2 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was traveling back from Oregon, and stopped at thea rest stop on I5 north, just north of Vancouver to re-arm myself, stretch my legs and have a smoke. Knowing that it was 11pm, dark, rainy and this rest stop is tucked back off the highway. I went to the far end of the lot where no one parks.
On my way in I noticed a single 80's toyota hatch back parked right by the bathrooms. There was female on the passenger side, shielding her face from being seen with her hand. I took down the license plate because it just looked off to me being there the way it was. I was standing with a friend and saw the guy through the trees and he was walking up the truck parking side. Me being the only car there, I knew he was making his way to up come over to me. As soon as he stepped off the curb into the car lot 30feet away he made a b-line to me with his head down, shoulders forward and hands in his hoody pocket. I had my flashlight out, and light him up and ordered him to stop, he was close enough to me for my comfort. He took two more steps, so I told him to stop again, and he complied and said he was out of gas with his wife and baby and looking for money. I told him I didn't have any, and that he needed to leave me alone. He called me an A--hole, said I needed to "chill" and walked off.
I got back into my car and left and called 911 about a suspicious person at the rest stop. The trooper called me about 30min later to tell me that he and the female with him (there was no kid) were arrested and wanted me to come back and write a statement (which I did). I have no doubt that had I not been paying attention the situation could have ended a lot differently. Had I not deescalated the situation the best I could at the lowest level I don't know what could have happened. My hunch is that he was going to try to rob me, and I interrupted his thought process (and took away his element of surprise) enough to make him re-think what he was about to do. Could it have been a guy just looking for a few dollars for gas? Sure... But there were just too many things out of place. Stop for a second here and think of how you would approach someone in a similar setting if you honestly needed help from them...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tactical doesn't mean dressing in black SWAT gear and running around with a gun. It means where do I have the advantage over a threat (parking away from other cars). "Getting tactical" can be as simple as sitting with your back to a wall so no one can come from behind you, or parking at the other end of the lot. It can be as complex as engaging multiple targets while using an egress route to cover. Tactical advantage to me has always been making small adjustments to my behavior and thought process now that can give me a greater advantage later on, should the need arise. Making note of who is where, and what things around me can be used to my advantage gives me more advantage over someone else. I guess its all a mindset and I just don't let people get the drop on me. :dunno: To me, its just how I live... Maybe I am paranoid, but I just don't want to be a victim.
Post by: marlin on April 23, 2012, 02:49:51 AM
I agree.. I get a little on edge when I see a bunch of hoodrats walking around.. I usually like to check and ensure that the magazine is fully seated into my pistol at times like this... LOL and that I could quickly draw if needed. A guy with a pistol holstered will get the head nod.
Post by: MADMAX on April 23, 2012, 04:58:30 AM
Hunting I carry openly. Around town I'd rather not anyone know I have it. :twocents::yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 07:08:35 AM
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
Post by: fillthefreezer on April 23, 2012, 07:29:00 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on April 23, 2012, 08:00:21 AM
Post by: Alchase on April 23, 2012, 09:01:08 AM
:) I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl
I agree, never give up an advantage :chuckle:
just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.
My wife use to ask me questions like this all the time when we first met, now she confirms our "situational awareness" often when in public. Like picking a booth in a restaurant that allowes the best field of view. Or having her sit inside of me in the booth with my draw side towards her. She now understrands training and old habits are hard to break, even if you wanted to, I don't.
Most people go through daily life oblivious to what is taking place around them.
If you ever sit back and crowd watch, you can usually tell who are the problems in a crowd. You can also tell allot of times who is carrying. Though some are more comfortable carrying then others, a little subconscious tug on the shirt to ensure your weapon is covered or how you bend over, lol.
This is not paranoia, it is practicing and keeping aware of what is around you.
As for going tactical in a non-tactical situation? I find it just the opposite, I tend to notice things sooner because I am always assessing the environment around me. This has given me the advantage to either avoid or act before something goes tactical.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 23, 2012, 09:12:57 AM
just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.
I worked in LE, and I know for me, some of it comes from that. But yes, I am always looking around and always know...1. Who is around me 2. Where nearest cover is 3. Where nearest concealment it 4. Where best egress is 5. What directions can I shoot safely without collateral damage, should the need arise.
As far as bringing the situation on, I can say I am actually more inclined to resolve things with people at a lower level because I do not want to ever have to use my weapon. Let me use this situation that happened to me about 2 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was traveling back from Oregon, and stopped at thea rest stop on I5 north, just north of Vancouver to re-arm myself, stretch my legs and have a smoke. Knowing that it was 11pm, dark, rainy and this rest stop is tucked back off the highway. I went to the far end of the lot where no one parks.
On my way in I noticed a single 80's toyota hatch back parked right by the bathrooms. There was female on the passenger side, shielding her face from being seen with her hand. I took down the license plate because it just looked off to me being there the way it was. I was standing with a friend and saw the guy through the trees and he was walking up the truck parking side. Me being the only car there, I knew he was making his way to up come over to me. As soon as he stepped off the curb into the car lot 30feet away he made a b-line to me with his head down, shoulders forward and hands in his hoody pocket. I had my flashlight out, and light him up and ordered him to stop, he was close enough to me for my comfort. He took two more steps, so I told him to stop again, and he complied and said he was out of gas with his wife and baby and looking for money. I told him I didn't have any, and that he needed to leave me alone. He called me an A--hole, said I needed to "chill" and walked off.
I got back into my car and left and called 911 about a suspicious person at the rest stop. The trooper called me about 30min later to tell me that he and the female with him (there was no kid) were arrested and wanted me to come back and write a statement (which I did). I have no doubt that had I not been paying attention the situation could have ended a lot differently. Had I not deescalated the situation the best I could at the lowest level I don't know what could have happened. My hunch is that he was going to try to rob me, and I interrupted his thought process (and took away his element of surprise) enough to make him re-think what he was about to do. Could it have been a guy just looking for a few dollars for gas? Sure... But there were just too many things out of place. Stop for a second here and think of how you would approach someone in a similar setting if you honestly needed help from them...
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Tactical doesn't mean dressing in black SWAT gear and running around with a gun. It means where do I have the advantage over a threat (parking away from other cars). "Getting tactical" can be as simple as sitting with your back to a wall so no one can come from behind you, or parking at the other end of the lot. It can be as complex as engaging multiple targets while using an egress route to cover. Tactical advantage to me has always been making small adjustments to my behavior and thought process now that can give me a greater advantage later on, should the need arise. Making note of who is where, and what things around me can be used to my advantage gives me more advantage over someone else. I guess its all a mindset and I just don't let people get the drop on me. :dunno: To me, its just how I live... Maybe I am paranoid, but I just don't want to be a victim.
Very well said. :tup:
:) I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl
I agree, never give up an advantage :chuckle:just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.
My wife use to ask me questions like this all the time when we first met, now she confirms our "situational awareness" often when in public. Like picking a booth in a restaurant that allowes the best field of view. Or having her sit inside of me in the booth with my draw side towards her. She now understrands training and old habits are hard to break, even if you wanted to, I don't.
Most people go through daily life oblivious to what is taking place around them.
If you ever sit back and crowd watch, you can usually tell who are the problems in a crowd. You can also tell allot of times who is carrying. Though some are more comfortable carrying then others, a little subconscious tug on the shirt to ensure your weapon is covered or how you bend over, lol.
This is not paranoia, it is practicing and keeping aware of what is around you.
As for going tactical in a non-tactical situation? I find it just the opposite, I tend to notice things sooner because I am always assessing the environment around me. This has given me the advantage to either avoid or act before something goes tactical.
:yeah: Also, well said. :tup: One of my favorite quotes, "Pray for Peace, Train for War". :salute:
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 23, 2012, 10:48:42 AM
Tooth......that makes alot of sense, i admire your sense of fair play, i too am all for giving a criminal a fair chance.
i dont think we need to let a p.o.s. go, so he can do the same to somebodies wife or somebody else, i figure bird in the hand. :)
Post by: toothfangclaw on April 23, 2012, 11:23:54 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 23, 2012, 11:25:38 AM
I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
I figured it was because they didn't have any room left in their pants. ;)
Bullying? Really are you serious? So do you feel intimidated everytime you see another hunting out in the field?
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 23, 2012, 11:30:33 AM
I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
I'm really shocked by this statement, Bone. I open carry everyday, especially during the summer when it's harder to conceal. I'm not attempting to intimidate anyone. I just don't have an adequate conceal holster for my .45 and I refuse to be a victim by not carrying. As far as compensating is concerned, BS to you on that.
I'm not sure where you live, Bone, but in the suburbs of Portland like here in Vancouver, you're an idiot if you don't carry.
Post by: DoubleJ on April 23, 2012, 11:34:48 AM
It has nothing to do about letting him go. You are protecting you and yours. If by a mad guy sees a gun my hip and says not worth it. Good, family safe. People on here and other many pro gun people talk so much how easy it would be to take a human life like they are some bug or animal. Fact of mater is, humans are not a deer, they are HUMAN, your own kind. Evil or not, no mater how deserving they are of a bullet in the chest. You killing a human will haunt you. Cops, military personal are messed up after killing humans and have to live with the demons attached to that moment. I just don't take taking a human as lightly as people here do, I guess. I am pro gun, just anti killing people unless it's last resort... That's my point... People are saying they won't give that person a warning to do the right thing in the moment before killing them. It isn't my job to be judge, joury, executor, unless it is last choice.... Guess I am in the minority on that.
You may be the minority but you are by far not alone.
Post by: TheHunt on April 23, 2012, 11:41:14 AM
I know if I was a criminal and I walked into a room or a place for armed robbery I am pretty sure I would not act on my criminal profession if there were people who were had weapons on them.
I also understand that you do not know if the open carry person is insane or mentally unstable. That makes me nervous as well.
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 11:54:45 AM
Chest thumpers and the like often have the same mentality. Probably why more people get into trouble shooting themselves in the leg than anything.
Nothing against owning a firearm, possessing it, etc. but I know what comes to mind in over 85% of the ones I see being toted around in public. Generally its the ones I don't see that I would be worried about.
I live in Yakima, argueably just as safe as Portland.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 23, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
THere is a big difference, walk softly and carry a big stick, or be a "loudmouth" and get your ass kicked.
Chest thumpers and the like often have the same mentality. Probably why more people get into trouble shooting themselves in the leg than anything.
Nothing against owning a firearm, possessing it, etc. but I know what comes to mind in over 85% of the ones I see being toted around in public. Generally its the ones I don't see that I would be worried about.
I live in Yakima, argueably just as safe as Portland.
I just think you're painting incredibly broad strokes by saying that anyone who carries is an over-compensating bully. It's plain untrue and unfair. I don't usually expect unfair and untrue out of you, Bone.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 23, 2012, 12:16:56 PM
I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.Unless the law has been changed, I believe it is still ILLEGAL to conceal long guns/AOWs. Therefore left with no other choice--open carry or no carry.
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
Post by: MadHatter on April 23, 2012, 12:21:02 PM
Mad.........i like all this situational and tactical awareness talk....seems you are giving up alot carrying open, seems you acknowledge the dangers of it and the paranoia it causes, seems like a great way to celebrate your freedom, lol..bottom line is this, if i'm having a bad day, if i cant get a gun and want one, and i see you with one, i can take it from you and there is probably nothing you can do about it, unless your a blackbelt in weapons retention, or more likely: just lucky. at the very least we will both be on the ground and you will be desperately fighting for retention and your life.
You will not get my firearm from me, and it will not end well either. As much work on retention as I have done, I would be a "black-belt in retention" as you call it. Anyone that carry's should be, CC or OC. Also, I carry tools to aid in retention. Kind of hard to take my gun with your arm filleted open...
The real trick though is to get close enough to me without being noticed and getting behind me; because you are not getting it out while facing me.
And I give up nothing by carrying openly, I do the same thing when CC as well. If you choose to carry a firearm, you change your mindset. No matter how you choose to carry it. If you don't change how you think, you will lose the fight when it matters the most.
Post by: Alchase on April 23, 2012, 01:44:49 PM
There is a big difference, walk softly and carry a big stick, or be a "loudmouth" and get your ass kicked.
Chest thumpers and the like often have the same mentality. Probably why more people get into trouble shooting themselves in the leg than anything.
Nothing against owning a firearm, possessing it, etc. but I know what comes to mind in over 85% of the ones I see being toted around in public. Generally its the ones I don't see that I would be worried about.
I live in Yakima, argueably just as safe as Portland.
So do you feel this way about LEOs as well? Just curious.
How about during hunting season, when everyone is carrying a rifle and quite a few open carry as well?
Open carry is legal, as long as it is I will support it. Having said that, the only time I open carry is while hunting or hiking. And sometimes hiking I still throw a shirt over my BlackHawk Serpa or go concealed. Totally depends on my mood and what I am wearing at the time. Outside of hunting and hiking, I am always concealed. I feel being concealed gives me an advantage (what they do not know helps me) but that is just my preference.
I can't say I have ever ran into anyone open carrying who acted like they were trying to intimidate or bully, usually it is just the opposite. Most I have met are just utilizing the open carry law to their comfort and benefit. In fact only a couple I have ever ran into were even trying to draw attention to the fact they were carrying, and those were in protest of 2ND amendment law changes proposed, and trying to bring attention to how absurd our firearms laws are.
All the others I have come a crossed who were open carrying were basically just going about normal every day to day business, they just happened to be wearing a side arm.
:tup:
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 02:02:45 PM
No ALchase, I am not saying every situation or every person warrants this. Whats better, run into Bi-mart packing after a day of snakehunting, or shoving your gun into the glovebox, or how about tucking it under your seat while the 5 year old is watching and go pump some gas.
Do you think a soccermom in the grocery Aisle can tell the difference between an off duty LEO, vet with PTSD or a gang banger from the local Crypts or bloods when standing in line at the checkout stand. Do you take any ownership in how uncomfortable it might make her, or does it matter becasue its your right. How long do you retain those rights?
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 23, 2012, 02:25:03 PM
Its just a generalization pianoman. There are exceptions to everything, and its just an opinion. There are some that think strapping their deer to the hood of their jeep or the grill of the vehicle is ok as well. Some think they have the right too, yet I doubt its the best thing to do. Are they showing off? Do they have something to prove? Are there any ramifications? Are they compensating for something? Does it bother me? Will people do it? Does it put everyone at ease when JDoe shows up at the soccer match with a gun strapped to them? How about when he decides to argue with the ref? How about when he flips you off in traffic and you see it strapped to his chest. Do you think it does anything to escalate a situation? How about the idots that pull their weapon out at the first sign of confilict? Every person has a different background/lifestory, motive. There are no takebacks.....
No ALchase, I am not saying every situation or every person warrants this. Whats better, run into Bi-mart packing after a day of snakehunting, or shoving your gun into the glovebox, or how about tucking it under your seat while the 5 year old is watching and go pump some gas.
Do you think a soccermom in the grocery Aisle can tell the difference between an off duty LEO, vet with PTSD or a gang banger from the local Crypts or bloods when standing in line at the checkout stand. Do you take any ownership in how uncomfortable it might make her, or does it matter becasue its your right. How long do you retain those rights?
I think that the soccer mom's discomfort is her problem and I'm not concerned with it. Her discomfort is not a result of poor firearm handling or of people abusing their 2nd Amendment rights. It's the result of the media making guns evil when you and I both know that's not true.
There's a huge difference between strapping a deer to the hood of your car and open carry. The major difference is that I have no right to hunt that deer and have to work everyday to make sure I can keep it. I have to be politically correct and I have to hide it like I'm ashamed of it because hunting isn't a right. Not so with firearms. I'm not a felon, a crazy person, under a restraining order, nor have I been convicted of or am under investigation for domestic abuse. Carrying is my right. Do you worry who you offend when you go to chruch? When people ask you if you're a Christian, do you cover your mouth so no one would hear? I would suggest not. If the answer is no, there's no reason you should be any different regarding your next right in the Bill of Rights.
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 02:34:44 PM
There is a time and place, if you haven't lost the right. Lose the right and then what?
Post by: Ice Cap on April 23, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 23, 2012, 02:51:26 PM
and you don't describe that as chest thumping :chuckle: I think the word I am looking for is discretion.
There is a time and place, if you haven't lost the right. Lose the right and then what?
That's the difference between you and me in this debate, Bone. You think if we're really quiet and non-assertive, everything will be all right. I believe that being really quiet and non-assertive has lost us ground and we need to realize that we don't need to be sheepish with our rights. It's not chest thumping. It's exercising your rights. It's no more chest thumping than telling a police officer you don't consent to search. And as far as losing the right is concerned, there'd need to be a Constitutional Convention for that to happen, or a state by state ratification of a new amendment. That just aint going to happen. There's no way there's a super majority of voters in a super majority of states that want to end our gun rights, at least not yet. If we gun owners stay quiet while the antis scream, the antis will eventually get their way. We should be carrying enough to be clicking against each other's guns in Freddy's as we pass in the aisles. And, I guarantee at the same time that the crime rate at Freddy's would drop precipitously.
Post by: runamuk on April 23, 2012, 02:56:29 PM
I gave up to pressure and let the guys have shotguns .... and eventually it was a hunters ed class and instructors that started the ball rolling to undo my fears... a few people on this site helped me along and now I kick myself in the ass for letting all those years of being surrounded by double tap pop a cap look at me I am a *censored* types having kept me from what is a damn cool hobby....
Open carry however has never made me feel threatened :dunno: the guy in Seattle who open carried a sword and the guy hiking in the olympics open carrying a sword that was a little weird......
Post by: dscubame on April 23, 2012, 02:56:43 PM
However even in the woods I want to be concealed and it is in the woods I am more aware of coming across folks than in town.
I am all about open carry and do not even take a second look when I see someone exercising that right. I just choose to keep my element of surprise and not show my cards, nor want the attention.
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 03:02:45 PM
Quote
I just choose to keep my element of surprise and not show my cards, nor want the attention.
Yep.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 23, 2012, 03:07:00 PM
by the way, you mentioned being a Christian. No I don't hide it, nor do I run up to every person I see announcing it either, nor do I wear a sign on my chest . I believe if I did possibly you and any other person would immediately form an opinion. Next time I see you in Freddys, I'll follow you around the store and read the bible at you. I'll see if you enjoy my right of free speech. :chuckle: If asked I will not hide the fact that I am a christian, just like I won't hide the fact I own a gun and have no problem putting one between your eyes if I needed to. I don't believe Ihave a positive effect on people immediately screaming I'm a christian and ram it down their throats. Just a difference of opinions.
Gee Bone, getting a little rude. I guess I'm done. You win.QuoteI just choose to keep my element of surprise and not show my cards, nor want the attention.
Yep.
Post by: fish vacuum on April 23, 2012, 03:29:25 PM
I have no need or desire to carry openly. Some people like to do things just for the sake of putting it out there. Not me.
I hope anyone practicing open carry has training in weapons retention and uses a holster with a quality retention system.
Post by: toothfangclaw on April 23, 2012, 03:39:32 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 23, 2012, 04:04:29 PM
I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
Tough guys open carry. I can fit a 45 with a 18 round clip in it with one in the hole in any pocket I have. The waist in a holster w a t shirt and shorts is fine. Small compact pistols have come along way no need to show how big your thing is. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2012, 06:29:21 PM
Toothfangclaw. That is an interesting thought, perspective.
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 23, 2012, 06:38:08 PM
so three guys go in to a.......seven eleven, lol...one a customer in open carry mode at the register near the door. the other two guys are robbers with guns, and just as we have seen on TV, their guns are out and ready to blaze away as they run in., whether its one guy or two...your in a pretty bad spot standing there. they dont want to get shot anymore than you do, i think robbery wont be so important anymore, enaging you will be number one.
atleast concealed carry, allows you to choose when and how to engage if at all.
Post by: toothfangclaw on April 23, 2012, 07:03:31 PM
Post by: kenbell27 on April 23, 2012, 07:20:08 PM
Personally, I don't open carry because I don't want attention drawn to myself or to be perceived as a threat by somebody.
Post by: FALFire on April 23, 2012, 07:56:09 PM
That makes about as much sense as this thread and Old McDonald's fricken farm!!
Who really cares how you carry and why??? :dunno: :chuckle:
The ones that are really scary are the ones that carry a gun concealed or not and refuse to keep a round chambered thinking they will have time to load up prior to the proverbial *censored*e hitting the fan. :chuckle: :chuckle:
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 23, 2012, 09:23:13 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 23, 2012, 09:28:37 PM
Every time I go into a 7-11 these days, I go in blasting away with my Kimber 1911 Eclipse duo tone pro comp Ultra carry with a 12 round extended magazine hang in' from the grip with a really cool high zoot competition speed load mag well and a great Wilson trigger set at only 2 ounces. After dumping the second of the 24 extra mags I carry, I usually have everyone's attention. Then I head straight to the chips aisle then grab me up a case or two of Keystone Light to drink on the way home. I pass everyone standing in line while I throw a 50 on the counter and and say adios hombres, jump into my Screamin' Red 12 inch skyjacker lifted diesel 4x4 with awesome Mickey Thompson mud runner tires, fire up the 600 horsepower twin turbo leave black smoke all over the parking lot then blow outta dodge smoking' the rear tires! Cause....That's how I roll!!So is that an urban redneck look :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: because regular ol rural rednecks usually are hella less conspicuous even with a little gun strapped to their hip :)
That makes about as much sense as this thread and Old McDonald's fricken farm!!
Who really cares how you carry and why??? :dunno: :chuckle:
The ones that are really scary are the ones that carry a gun concealed or not and refuse to keep a round chambered thinking they will have time to load up prior to the proverbial *censored*e hitting the fan. :chuckle: :chuckle:
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
Post by: KFhunter on April 23, 2012, 11:06:25 PM
its kinda funny, people saying, everytime this is brought up people keep saying the same thing, lol. maybe you are just not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion. why dont you look up statistics with regards to police officers killed by firearms. a good percentage are killed with their own gun.
Here is what I found:
Total number of officers killed from 2000-2009 (excluding 9-11) - 530
Total killed with guns (Same chart as above) - 490
Total killed with “own weapon,” (includes one baton!) - 41
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_27.html (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_27.html)
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_14.html (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_14.html)
For a specific group of people that wade into dangerous situations with weapons strapped to them on a regular basis, that really isn't many of them being killed by their own weapons.
To give credit for where I found the sources of this info:
http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2012/04/rosenthal-lies-about-cops-killed-with.html (http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2012/04/rosenthal-lies-about-cops-killed-with.html)
Also, take into account that 41 (own weapon) the bulk of those will be suicide
Post by: Alchase on April 24, 2012, 12:25:40 PM
My grampa use to say "Discretion is the better part of valor" all the time, when he was reigning in unnecessary bravado, lol
I added a little to to make my own phrase, "discretion is the better part of valor, but when $hit hits the fan, respond with overwhelming fire power!"
:hunt2:
Post by: FALFire on April 24, 2012, 03:04:59 PM
"Discretion" is a great word!
My grampa use to say "Discretion is the better part of valor" all the time, when he was reigning in unnecessary bravado, lol
I added a little to to make my own phrase, "discretion is the better part of valor, but when $hit hits the fan, respond with overwhelming fire power!"
:hunt2:
AMEN Brother!! :tup: :tup:
Post by: boneaddict on April 25, 2012, 07:13:26 AM
Post by: Alchase on April 25, 2012, 09:43:25 AM
fits right in with my original statement.... walk softly and carry a BIG STICK. Along the same lines. That generation of folks are rated pretty high in my book. We need more of them now than ever.
You are right Bone, the saddest part is how long it took our generation to realize we had some pretty awesome examples sitting right in front of us.
Post by: Bigshooter on April 28, 2012, 10:24:42 AM
by the way, you mentioned being a Christian. No I don't hide it, nor do I run up to every person I see announcing it either, nor do I wear a sign on my chest . I believe if I did possibly you and any other person would immediately form an opinion. Next time I see you in Freddys, I'll follow you around the store and read the bible at you. I'll see if you enjoy my right of free speech. :chuckle: If asked I will not hide the fact that I am a christian, just like I won't hide the fact I own a gun and have no problem putting one between your eyes if I needed to. I don't believe Ihave a positive effect on people immediately screaming I'm a christian and ram it down their throats. Just a difference of opinions.
Gee Bone, getting a little rude. I guess I'm done. You win.QuoteI just choose to keep my element of surprise and not show my cards, nor want the attention.
Yep.
I think you missed what he was pointing out. You do hide the fact.
Post by: TWG2A on April 28, 2012, 11:31:07 AM
I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.
Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.
While I disagree that "Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.", I am DEFINITELY "compensating for something". I am compensating for the fact that I'm a 5'2", 105lb female and. likely, the person who would want to harm me is far bigger than I.
Guns.... the great equalizer.
Post by: TWG2A on April 28, 2012, 11:41:52 AM
1) It demonstrates that firearms are legal,, to those who've been brainwashed otherwise by the gun grabbers.
2) It's a deterrent. Some cretin will think twice before attempting to harm me if they see my 45 on my belt.
Situational awareness is key, but if someone tried to steal my firearm off my belt, they would be shot without hesitation because I know they would intend to use said firearm on me.
Post by: NW-GSP on April 28, 2012, 04:09:45 PM
I have only felt threatened a few times but due to me being aware of my surroundings and the situation at hand I have not had any real problems.
I have been threatened twice by homeless people with knives, I stood my ground and made it aware to them that I was not going to be a victim. never even had to draw my cc
I would also like to add that openly carrying a firearm accomplishes two things IMO
1) It demonstrates that firearms are legal,, to those who've been brainwashed otherwise by the gun grabbers.
2) It's a deterrent. Some cretin will think twice before attempting to harm me if they see my 45 on my belt.
Situational awareness is key, but if someone tried to steal my firearm off my belt, they would be shot without hesitation because I know they would intend to use said firearm on me.
Post by: fish vacuum on April 29, 2012, 02:51:18 AM
Situational awareness is key, but if someone tried to steal my firearm off my belt, they would be shot without hesitation because I know they would intend to use said firearm on me.
What kind of firearm retention training have you had?
Post by: TWG2A on April 29, 2012, 07:02:07 AM
Would rather be seen as a victim. It's more fun that way.
Post by: dscubame on April 29, 2012, 04:59:50 PM
Post by: TWG2A on April 29, 2012, 05:06:50 PM
Now go slither back under your rock, genius..
Post by: dscubame on April 29, 2012, 05:14:13 PM
Post by: TWG2A on April 29, 2012, 05:15:47 PM
Tools like you always do, no matter the facts.
Post by: krism83 on April 29, 2012, 07:47:24 PM
It's a matter of preference I think. Which ever way you do it, do it responsibly
Post by: seth30 on April 29, 2012, 07:49:59 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on April 30, 2012, 09:58:13 AM
Post by: Huntbear on April 30, 2012, 11:59:36 AM
People have gotten timeouts for less personal attacks....
And everyone wonders how the government will win this battle??? Right here, the complete division of the radical right and others....
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 30, 2012, 12:06:35 PM
I only open carry when hunting or cutting firewood. I just forsee to many issues if I open carry into a store.
Here's why you should carry, open or otherwise. If someone asks you why, tell them about this, which happened last Thursday in SLC.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
Post by: jordanramos_79 on April 30, 2012, 12:13:28 PM
Post by: FC on April 30, 2012, 12:15:35 PM
Post by: TWG2A on April 30, 2012, 12:39:25 PM
I have a question, a friend of mine walked into a mini mart the other day with his 1911 strapped to his side, during checkout the cashier told him "I don't have a problem with it but next time could you not wear the gun in here, its scares the other customers". Would my friend have to remove the weapon from his person per the stores request?
Yes. Private businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, and if they ask someone not to carry in their establishment, that individual should politely get up and leave, then go to www.opencarry.org and post information about said business letting other OC'rs know that business doesn't support our right to open carry. I would also add that one would want to inform the proprietor that they don't allow open carry by posting it clearly on their front door.
Post by: Shoffy on April 30, 2012, 12:41:10 PM
a) having it print through my clothes
b) show when I bend down to pick something off the ground
c) having it jab me in the back or side when I go to sit down
d) it's kind of heavy to have in the pocket too
I think it's great when people carry, those are just my reasons why I hardly do :twocents:
Post by: TWG2A on April 30, 2012, 12:53:05 PM
It's also an EXTREMELY active and tight knit group. People get involved when they learn a local business is not friendly to our Bill Of Rights and our Constitution.
Post by: BuckHunter23 on April 30, 2012, 01:12:18 PM
I open carry when I'm camping, hunting or playing around in the hills but never in public. I have a CPL and will carry concealed every once and a great while, but only for the principle of legally being able to do it. I hate carrying a pistol because it's so dang uncomfortable. I have not found a way to carry a Glock 27 without:
a) having it print through my clothes
b) show when I bend down to pick something off the ground
c) having it jab me in the back or side when I go to sit down
d) it's kind of heavy to have in the pocket too
I think it's great when people carry, those are just my reasons why I hardly do :twocents:
:yeah: Anyone know of a comfortable concealed carry holster? I have a SW M&P .40. Can't seem to find a comfortable holster to carry concealed and I prefer not to open carry unless I am out in the field.
Post by: jordanramos_79 on April 30, 2012, 01:21:39 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on April 30, 2012, 01:40:49 PM
Post by: Alchase on April 30, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
I open carry when I'm camping, hunting or playing around in the hills but never in public. I have a CPL and will carry concealed every once and a great while, but only for the principle of legally being able to do it. I hate carrying a pistol because it's so dang uncomfortable. I have not found a way to carry a Glock 27 without:
a) having it print through my clothes
b) show when I bend down to pick something off the ground
c) having it jab me in the back or side when I go to sit down
d) it's kind of heavy to have in the pocket too
I think it's great when people carry, those are just my reasons why I hardly do :twocents:
:yeah: Anyone know of a comfortable concealed carry holster? I have a SW M&P .40. Can't seem to find a comfortable holster to carry concealed and I prefer not to open carry unless I am out in the field.
The most comfortable IWB holsters I have found are the hybrids like the Galco King Tuk, Cross Breed, etc.. of these the Galco King Tuk fits my frame better then the rest.
Milt Sparks also makes a work of art in the Versa Max II, but that will take six months to get "if" you get through on the phones. Galco Souther Comfort, tons of options.
OWB is hit or miss depending on what position you wear your weapon. Most places like Sportsmans, will allow you to try your own weapon in the holster in the store provided you bring it in "unloaded". Ask first just to be safe.
If you are like me, you may need many different holsters depending on what you are wearing, and what activity you are doing.
Printing - I have found that most people are way to conscious about their weapon printing. Most people just do not pay enough attention to notice. I usually just have a shirt or light coat over mine. When bending over you will print with most weapons. You can limit that by squatting with the legs and not bending at the waist.
A good weight distributing holster and a "good stiff belt" will limit if not get rid of the "jabs in the side or back", plus with time you just learn to adjust how you do things when you carry. It does get funny when you first start to carry, and you have to take a dump in a public restroom for the first time, lol.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 30, 2012, 02:17:39 PM
My galco "summer comfort" iwb right behind my hip bone is very comfortable. Driving, sitting, any thing. A lot of times I forget its there. It dosent print and I can literally be on a full out sprint without having to worry about it flying off and skidding across the ground.
Looks like a reasonable holster. I just ordered one. Thanks for the tip.
Post by: DoubleJ on April 30, 2012, 07:04:39 PM
I open carry when I'm camping, hunting or playing around in the hills but never in public. I have a CPL and will carry concealed every once and a great while, but only for the principle of legally being able to do it. I hate carrying a pistol because it's so dang uncomfortable. I have not found a way to carry a Glock 27 without:
a) having it print through my clothes
b) show when I bend down to pick something off the ground
c) having it jab me in the back or side when I go to sit down
d) it's kind of heavy to have in the pocket too
I think it's great when people carry, those are just my reasons why I hardly do :twocents:
:yeah: Anyone know of a comfortable concealed carry holster? I have a SW M&P .40. Can't seem to find a comfortable holster to carry concealed and I prefer not to open carry unless I am out in the field.
The most comfortable IWB holsters I have found are the hybrids like the Galco King Tuk, Cross Breed, etc.. of these the Galco King Tuk fits my frame better then the rest.
Milt Sparks also makes a work of art in the Versa Max II, but that will take six months to get "if" you get through on the phones. Galco Souther Comfort, tons of options.
OWB is hit or miss depending on what position you wear your weapon. Most places like Sportsmans, will allow you to try your own weapon in the holster in the store provided you bring it in "unloaded". Ask first just to be safe.
If you are like me, you may need many different holsters depending on what you are wearing, and what activity you are doing.
Printing - I have found that most people are way to conscious about their weapon printing. Most people just do not pay enough attention to notice. I usually just have a shirt or light coat over mine. When bending over you will print with most weapons. You can limit that by squatting with the legs and not bending at the waist.
A good weight distributing holster and a "good stiff belt" will limit if not get rid of the "jabs in the side or back", plus with time you just learn to adjust how you do things when you carry. It does get funny when you first start to carry, and you have to take a dump in a public restroom for the first time, lol.
:yeah:
Print shmint. People won't notice anyway. Stop worrying about it. And as mentioned, get a stiff belt. My holster hasn't changed but my belt has and it has made carrying much more comfortable.