Post by: doyourtime89 on April 24, 2012, 09:01:02 AM
Post by: h20hunter on April 24, 2012, 09:02:38 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on April 24, 2012, 09:03:48 AM
Post by: Goldeneye on April 24, 2012, 09:17:05 AM
Absolutely legal, pending it's during legal hours. Ethical, no.
x2
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 09:50:28 AM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 24, 2012, 09:53:47 AM
Post by: Broken Arrow on April 24, 2012, 09:55:09 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 10:16:47 AM
Im sure its legal. I grew up being taugh that you dont "sluece" birds as well, cause its not sporting. However reading this...i just had a thought. Would it be any less sporting to shoot a big bull elk in its bed if you had a clean shot? Sorry not trying to hijack the thread. Just thinking out loud.....
No, you should wait for them to fly! :chuckle: :chuckle:
I don't consider being able to get close enough to a bull in his bed and killing it sluecing. It's not any easier than any other elk killing. It takes fair chase and skill.
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 10:23:12 AM
Absolutely legal, pending it's during legal hours. Ethical, no.
Not picking on you specifically MtnMuley...
But would you shoot that buck of a lifetime in its bed???? OR are you going to couch, stomp your feet, Yell,,, HEY DEER... to give it a chance?????? Probably not....
I would shoot a turkey in the roost 10/10 times.. go home a very happy hunter... I would also shoot a deer or an elk in its bed...
Ethical????? I see more ethics out the window with guys drinking beer while hunting, shooting way past the range you can really hit anything at, etc..... and so on....
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 10:38:55 AM
So getting within a turkey at say 30yds is different?Im sure its legal. I grew up being taugh that you dont "sluece" birds as well, cause its not sporting. However reading this...i just had a thought. Would it be any less sporting to shoot a big bull elk in its bed if you had a clean shot? Sorry not trying to hijack the thread. Just thinking out loud.....
No, you should wait for them to fly! :chuckle: :chuckle:
I don't consider being able to get close enough to a bull in his bed and killing it sluecing. It's not any easier than any other elk killing. It takes fair chase and skill.
Post by: baldopepper on April 24, 2012, 10:40:07 AM
Post by: Holg3107 on April 24, 2012, 11:00:33 AM
Quote
Not picking on you specifically MtnMuley...
But would you shoot that buck of a lifetime in its bed? OR are you going to couch, stomp your feet, Yell,,, HEY DEER... to give it a chance??? Probably not....
I would shoot a turkey in the roost 10/10 times.. go home a very happy hunter... I would also shoot a deer or an elk in its bed...
Ethical?? I see more ethics out the window with guys drinking beer while hunting, shooting way past the range you can really hit anything at, etc..... and so on....
Shooting a deer or elk in its bed and shooting a turkey in its roost are completely different. You will never hear of an ethical turkey hunter shoot a roosted bird! That's about as challenging as shooting your neighbors black lab. A deer or elk in its bed has the same opportunity to flea as a deer or elk that is standing or feeding. Turkeys are different, once roosted they generally don't leave. It would be more appropriate to comparing shooting a roosted bird to spotlighting a deer (although yes I know spotlighting is illegal and shooting roosted birds is legal).
Post by: LITTLEBUCK on April 24, 2012, 11:07:37 AM
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2012, 11:27:47 AM
As far as using other state's laws to determine ethical standards, by that measure we shouldn't be baiting deer or elk...
If I was in turkey camp and some guy got under a big ol' tom and shot him out of a tree, I wouldn't give him any crap over it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 11:29:06 AM
As far as using other state's laws to determine ethical standards, by that measure we shouldn't be baiting deer or elk...
Some of us don't.
Post by: seth30 on April 24, 2012, 11:34:33 AM
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2012, 11:37:43 AM
Shooting a deer or elk in its bed and shooting a turkey in its roost are completely different. You will never hear of an ethical turkey hunter shoot a roosted bird! That's about as challenging as shooting your neighbors black lab. A deer or elk in its bed has the same opportunity to flea as a deer or elk that is standing or feeding. Turkeys are different, once roosted they generally don't leave. It would be more appropriate to comparing shooting a roosted bird to spotlighting a deer (although yes I know spotlighting is illegal and shooting roosted birds is legal).
Interesting perspective. I've not spent a lot of time turkey hunting, so I don't know the "norms". But I do know my grandad would have cuffed the back of my head if I threw a load of lead #6's at a raft of swimming ducks... so it does appear situational.
WOW! A lot of double standards in this thread :nono:
Yep, I'm pretty interested to see where this one goes!
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 11:56:28 AM
QuoteNot picking on you specifically MtnMuley...
But would you shoot that buck of a lifetime in its bed? OR are you going to couch, stomp your feet, Yell,,, HEY DEER... to give it a chance??? Probably not....
I would shoot a turkey in the roost 10/10 times.. go home a very happy hunter... I would also shoot a deer or an elk in its bed...
Ethical?? I see more ethics out the window with guys drinking beer while hunting, shooting way past the range you can really hit anything at, etc..... and so on....
Shooting a deer or elk in its bed and shooting a turkey in its roost are completely different. You will never hear of an ethical turkey hunter shoot a roosted bird! That's about as challenging as shooting your neighbors black lab. A deer or elk in its bed has the same opportunity to flea as a deer or elk that is standing or feeding. Turkeys are different, once roosted they generally don't leave. It would be more appropriate to comparing shooting a roosted bird to spotlighting a deer (although yes I know spotlighting is illegal and shooting roosted birds is legal).
So,,,, I shot a deer in its bed while it was asleep..... He never knew I was there.. I put one in his boiler room at about 150 yds.... was that ethical??? He had no chance to run, get away, he was snoozing away.... Guess that is unethical???? Again.. unethical covers a lot of things,, but this is not one of them... IF it is legal shooting hours, I am pulling the trigger.. Maybe we should holler, FLY bird, FLY!!! or maybe fire a warning shot ?????? :bash: :bash: Maybe,, Just maybe we should have to shoot them using mirrors backwards over our shoulders.... give them a chance.... But really if you are gonna go there, I hope your not using a rangefinder for any of your hunting, some may consider that unethical... if you use a bow, should it be a recurve only???? you start saying something completely LEGAL is unethical, be prepared to have your own ways of doing things slide down that slippery slope... because some people think even hunting is unethical..
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 24, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2012, 12:10:26 PM
When fishing, we adhere to what we call "Captain's rules". If the host of the trip doesn't keep any oversized walleye (over 22" in most places), then you don't keep any oversized walleye unless the host ok's it. When you're fishing with me in my boat, if it's legal to keep, feel free. I hope you enjoyed your trip, and will enjoy your meals to come even more. But if I'm fishing with Yelp, and he says "we don't keep overs, and we only keep enough for a few filets for tonight's supper", then I'm only keeping a couple of fish for tonight's supper. Captain's rules.
So, if I'm turkey hunting with Yelp, and he says "we don't shoot birds out of the roost", then I don't either. But if I'm out by myself, I won't necessarily feel compelled to adhere to another man's ethical standard just for the sake of adhering to another man's ethical standard. If I choose to shoot a turkey out of a tree, I can still sleep that night. If someone else does it, I'm sure not going to give him a hard time about it.
BUT - you put that turkey on the side of the road, with half a dozen cars stopped watching the roosted birds and checking them off on their "life list", then some dude gets out and blasts a tom out of a tree in front of them... well, that's a bird of a different feather.
So, I think it's situational.
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 12:17:22 PM
An argument for the situational -
When fishing, we adhere to what we call "Captain's rules". If the host of the trip doesn't keep any oversized walleye (over 22" in most places), then you don't keep any oversized walleye unless the host ok's it. When you're fishing with me in my boat, if it's legal to keep, feel free. I hope you enjoyed your trip, and will enjoy your meals to come even more. But if I'm fishing with Yelp, and he says "we don't keep overs, and we only keep enough for a few filets for tonight's supper", then I'm only keeping a couple of fish for tonight's supper. Captain's rules.
So, if I'm turkey hunting with Yelp, and he says "we don't shoot birds out of the roost", then I don't either. But if I'm out by myself, I won't necessarily feel compelled to adhere to another man's ethical standard just for the sake of adhering to another man's ethical standard. If I choose to shoot a turkey out of a tree, I can still sleep that night. If someone else does it, I'm sure not going to give him a hard time about it.
BUT - you put that turkey on the side of the road, with half a dozen cars stopped watching the roosted birds and checking them off on their "life list", then some dude gets out and blasts a tom out of a tree in front of them... well, that's a bird of a different feather.
So, I think it's situational.
Why not??? I hear some others do that with elk ... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
Post by: deerslyr on April 24, 2012, 12:25:30 PM
I see nothing wrong with shooting a bird out of a roost, I dont find it very sporting and wont do it, but thats me. I also dont find hunting over bait very sporting, or as fun you could say, but im not going to slam any one who does it, and ill fight side by side with them to allow baiting to still be legal. :twocents:
Post by: JPhelps on April 24, 2012, 12:25:59 PM
Will I? NO
Do I care if anyone else does? NO
Pretty simple and everyone is happy
Post by: runamuk on April 24, 2012, 12:33:59 PM
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 12:46:57 PM
Can I?? probably not the time I tried that with a grouse I missed? so my answer is no I probably can't .... now if I had a license and I was out hunting and had a turkey tag and the turkey was just sitting there like a dweeb I might take a crack at it.... :dunno: my luck I'd miss and instead of flying away it would attack me....in which case I might just bash it over the head with my gun :dunno:
I want to be there with a video camera...... :lol4: :lol4: :lol4: :sas: :sas:
Post by: YellowDog on April 24, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
Not sure how many "ethics" threads im going to have to post this on; there is no one set of ethics out there published in a book. Its up to the person in the situation and what they think is ethical. You cant expect every one to live by your set of ethics.I like this response. :tup:
I see nothing wrong with shooting a bird out of a roost, I dont find it very sporting and wont do it, but thats me. I also dont find hunting over bait very sporting, or as fun you could say, but im not going to slam any one who does it, and ill fight side by side with them to allow baiting to still be legal. :twocents:
Shooting a turkey on the roost is not illegal therefore it becomes an individual ethical decision, not a legal one.
Not bashing anyone but I think the folks that do not and would not shoot a turkey on the roost are probably that way because of some tradition passed down from a family member, mentor, etc. I would say that most serious hard core turkey hunters don't shoot birds off the roost because they don't think it is sporting and they know the importance of not disturbing a roost site. Not saying they are right and those that would shoot are wrong.
The comparison to shooting a deer or elk in its bed is not quite the same as shooting a turkey on the roost IMO. One of the main reasons turkeys roost is to put distance between them and their ground dwelling predators (non-human) so by roosting they are relatively safe from most of their predators and can rest. Deer and elk obviously don't have that option and have to be alert to predators at all times. Turkeys are lucky I guess in that they are able to roost. So a turkey sitting in a tree that thinks he is safe from most predators getting blasted by a shotgun is just a little different for me even though it would probably take some good stalking skills to stalk in under a roost tree.
I won't slam someone for doing it per se but I may say that I consider it to be unethical. That is my opinion only and is not really intended as a slam so someone who does shoot turkeys on the roost should not really be too worried about my belief that it is unethical. If you want to know why it is considered unethical to a lot of folks, research it and confirm your feelings one way or the other.
Post by: bradslam on April 24, 2012, 12:57:49 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 24, 2012, 12:59:18 PM
but calling them in would be much more fun for me :twocents:
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 01:06:53 PM
I remember a few years back, the game warden in the Davenport area telling me about how he shot a gobbler out of its roost. As a hardcore turkey hunter that would never dream of doing that, I was shocked. Legal, yes, but just plain unethical in my opinion. The difference between a turkey in its roost and a deer in its bed is the expectation of security that the animal has. A turkey roosts in a tree to avoid predators. When it is up in its roost tree and it sees a potential predator on the ground, it feels much more secure and is less likely to fly. At least, until you get very close. I've had plenty of gobblers let me walk right up directly beneath them. Of course, most of the time this was an screw up on my part, but the point is it took no skill to do so. Bottom line is: show the gobbler some respect and if you need to resort to shooting them out of their roost, then maybe you should learn to hunt.So a deer or an elk that beds down on an open hillside with their backs to a ledge and the wind in their face so they can see and smell predators of any kind don't have the same kind of safety expectation?
Post by: runamuk on April 24, 2012, 01:07:35 PM
I will never understand the whole one is ethical but the other is not go with legal and what you find enjoyable after all its your money and your tag :dunno:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 01:29:05 PM
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! :dunno: >:( I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting :bdid: it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... :twocents: :sry: Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no :dunno:
Post by: bradslam on April 24, 2012, 01:46:19 PM
I remember a few years back, the game warden in the Davenport area telling me about how he shot a gobbler out of its roost. As a hardcore turkey hunter that would never dream of doing that, I was shocked. Legal, yes, but just plain unethical in my opinion. The difference between a turkey in its roost and a deer in its bed is the expectation of security that the animal has. A turkey roosts in a tree to avoid predators. When it is up in its roost tree and it sees a potential predator on the ground, it feels much more secure and is less likely to fly. At least, until you get very close. I've had plenty of gobblers let me walk right up directly beneath them. Of course, most of the time this was an screw up on my part, but the point is it took no skill to do so. Bottom line is: show the gobbler some respect and if you need to resort to shooting them out of their roost, then maybe you should learn to hunt.So a deer or an elk that beds down on an open hillside with their backs to a ledge and the wind in their face so they can see and smell predators of any kind don't have the same kind of safety expectation?
No they don't. When a deer or elk is in its bed and a predator is approaching, they know they are vulnerable and you can damn well bet that they are contemplating their next move to avoid the danger. A turkey feels safe up in the tree and many times you can walk right up to them. Sorry, but like Bowhunter45 said, turkey hunting has its own set of rules and blowing birds off of the roost is just not ethical.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
Post by: HornHoarder on April 24, 2012, 02:01:05 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 02:03:47 PM
I guess the best thing for someone who thinks it is no big deal is to go find a hot gobbler .. close to a road where someone can hear a turkey gobbling his head off and your set up on that bird and your all excited about your chance of bagging him once he hits the ground , your heart is beating your all excited AND THEN BOOOOOM BOOOOOOM someone slipped up on him as he was gobbling and blowed him off the limb ...Guarantee you will change your mind right then !!!!!! At least 6 times in my career :bash: :bash: :bash: >:(
Post by: turkeydancer on April 24, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
:yike:
But I would think any self respecting turkey hunter will agree with Yellowdog, Bradslam, and Bowhunter45 that you should respect the game you are hunting enough to honor tradition and get more satisfaction out of your harvest.
I've never had problems getting turkeys in what traditionally is considered the ethical manner. I would rather come home empty handed myself since just being out with my friends and family is enough, and I feel no pressure to come back and worry that anyone would think that I'm less of a hunter. It's also legal to come running in where someone is calling the birds and start blazing away at 70 yards ...
ethical, no ... but that happens way to often too ... so where do you draw your line in the sand, and not cross it?
:twocents:
Legal, yes .... totally bad form, yes ! You should respect yourself, the game, and tradition for God's sake !!!
Post by: Broken Arrow on April 24, 2012, 02:37:47 PM
Post by: gasman on April 24, 2012, 02:39:43 PM
All the "Holier then Thou" come out.....
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 02:49:18 PM
Just out of curiousity.....do folks feel the same respect for grouse? or is this just a bird thats ok to take by any means such as in the ground, flying, trees etc. This whole post is really intresting. I find myslef with some double standards. I wont shoot a turkey from the roost for many of the same sporting issues mentioned here. Yet i will shoot grouse anywhere.... I like to call in ducks and geese, yet get pissed at sky busters. I think its more sporting for me to bow hunt, yet practice long shots and have taken them. I guess it comes down to what makes you tick and when its all said and done if you feel good about it and follow the rules.Well stated sir :tup:
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 24, 2012, 02:57:28 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on April 24, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
:bash:
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 03:20:06 PM
I understand someone saying they personally wouldn't find it challenging or enjoyable, but to say somebody is unethical if they follow the rules is dangerous ground for all of us.
I personally wouldn't enjoy shooting a bear with it's head stuck in a barrel trying to fish out some more donuts? Does that make bear baiting unethical where it's still legal?
I personally wouldn't enjoy walking up to a treed cougar and blasting it behind the ear. Does that make hound hunters who chase cougars unethical (where it's legal)?
I personally don't think that you should be able to use 3" magnum shells with any projectile heavier than steel shot on ducks.....
And Lord knows it's unethical to have wheels on the end of your bow, because it's supposed to be a primitive weapon.....
If shooting ducks off the pond is legal - but not your cup of tea - why shouldn't it be left at just that?
I guess part of the reason I ranted is because I think hunters have a way of dividing ourselves - and then losing rights.
I think, for instance, that anti-hunters will come after bow hunters before rifle hunters? Why? Smaller group. Easier to outlaw. Part of their death-by-a-thousand=paper-cuts approach to outlawing all hunting.
I say - If it's legal,we better stick together.
And.... I like the "Captain's rules". There's no law that says you can't hold a higher standard w/o regarding the other with disdain.
Lord........... I just preached......
Post by: MtnMuley on April 24, 2012, 03:25:40 PM
All the "Holier then Thou" come out.....
Pathetic comment. I see noboby stating that they are holier that anybody else. The way I see it, each person is expressing their thoughts on the situation. There will be some hunters viewing that probably have the same question about shooting them out of the roost. Hopefully this civil debate will give them insight on the decision they will have to make. While there is much debate on this and comparing the situation to shooting a buck out of his bed or grouse off a limb, the majority of dedicated, serious, knowledgable turkey hunters will agree that it's not ethical. Legal, yes. As for somebody stating their reason for not doing it and being tainted with the "holier than thou" phrase, that's bullch*t. :)
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 03:30:45 PM
Interesting thread, but a slippery slope indeed.My thoughts exactly. I just don't have the patience to type that much. :chuckle: Well done sir.
I understand someone saying they personally wouldn't find it challenging or enjoyable, but to say somebody is unethical if they follow the rules is dangerous ground for all of us.
I personally wouldn't enjoy shooting a bear with it's head stuck in a barrel trying to fish out some more donuts? Does that make bear baiting unethical where it's still legal?
I personally wouldn't enjoy walking up to a treed cougar and blasting it behind the ear. Does that make hound hunters who chase cougars unethical (where it's legal)?
I personally don't think that you should be able to use 3" magnum shells with any projectile heavier than steel shot on ducks.....
And Lord knows it's unethical to have wheels on the end of your bow, because it's supposed to be a primitive weapon.....
If shooting ducks off the pond is legal - but not your cup of tea - why shouldn't it be left at just that?
I guess part of the reason I ranted is because I think hunters have a way of dividing ourselves - and then losing rights.
I think, for instance, that anti-hunters will come after bow hunters before rifle hunters? Why? Smaller group. Easier to outlaw. Part of their death-by-a-thousand=paper-cuts approach to outlawing all hunting.
I say - If it's legal,we better stick together.
And.... I like the "Captain's rules". There's no law that says you can't hold a higher standard w/o regarding the other with disdain.
Lord........... I just preached......
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 03:34:38 PM
Multiple people called it an unethical practice (not a practice they personally don't enjoy, but an unethical practice.). How is it pathetic to call that a holier than thou attitude?
If I follow the rules, but not the way you like, and you call me unethical for it...... Isn't that the very definition of holier than thou?
Post by: MR5x5 on April 24, 2012, 03:41:29 PM
All I can say for sure now is that I won't shoot a roosted elk. :chuckle:
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2012, 03:46:14 PM
Again, where do you draw the line with any game or fish? Just legal, or what's legal and what is considered ethical. Guess to me its respecting the game or fish and myself enough to do whats right ... if you figure that's being holier than thou, I figure that means you don't respect yourself enough to care no matter what anyone else would say or think, you only care that its legal, and any further discussion is really just a waste of time.
:bash:
I think this is the root of what this thread is all about - what is right for some is not necessarily right for others. Can the two sides see past the tiny distinction? It's not like you're trying to talk turkey hunting with a PETA member - you're talking to a fellow hunter whose take on a roosted turkey is just a little different than yours. One will kill him now, one is going to make him cluck and strut a bit first, then kill him. Is it really that different?
Interesting thread.
All I can say for sure now is that I won't shoot a roosted elk. :chuckle:
That's good. 'Cause I'd be damned certain a roosted elk has a reasonable expectation of safety! :chuckle:
Post by: Holg3107 on April 24, 2012, 03:47:07 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 24, 2012, 03:47:41 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 24, 2012, 03:47:54 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 03:49:09 PM
Post by: Machias on April 24, 2012, 03:53:06 PM
I'll tell you right now....if I see a roosted elk I'm shooting it. No ifs ands or butts. I do not want that smart of a critter passing on any genes.
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: mtman on April 24, 2012, 04:09:47 PM
Post by: YellowDog on April 24, 2012, 04:20:52 PM
MtnMuley,By definition it is not ethical. Doesn't mean someone is holier than thou for choosing to donform to acceptable standards consistent with agreed principles of correct moral conduct.
Multiple people called it an unethical practice (not a practice they personally don't enjoy, but an unethical practice.). How is it pathetic to call that a holier than thou attitude?
If I follow the rules, but not the way you like, and you call me unethical for it...... Isn't that the very definition of holier than thou?
One definition of "Ethical":
1. conforming to accepted standards: consistent with agreed principles of correct moral conduct
"While such activities are not strictly illegal, they are certainly not ethical."
2. of ethics: relating to or involving ethics
I think of "holier-than-thou" as someone who thinks they are morally better than anyone and everyone. Those posting here against shooting on the roost aren't saying they are better than EVERYONE just that they believe they are on a better ethical/moral ground than those that shoot birds on the roost. Splitting hairs but there is a difference. Calling somone unethical is not as condescending as calling someone holier-than-though IMO but again that's just my opinion.
Post by: YellowDog on April 24, 2012, 04:21:51 PM
I'll tell you right now....if I see a roosted elk I'm shooting it. No ifs ands or butts. I do not want that smart of a critter passing on any genes.Just don't stand directly below it and you will be okay.
Post by: MtnMuley on April 24, 2012, 04:22:36 PM
I have no ethics. But hay theres always food on the table.
So you eat hay?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 04:46:39 PM
Post by: gasman on April 24, 2012, 04:55:09 PM
three simple words not directed at any person specifically and people take offense to it :stirthepot:
I'm with you Dan-o
And to think, I'm not a turkey hunter :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
But its the same debate every year :peep:
Post by: Woodchuck on April 24, 2012, 04:56:49 PM
Post by: MerriamMagician on April 24, 2012, 05:01:22 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
Post by: Bofire on April 24, 2012, 05:16:55 PM
Carl :chuckle:
Post by: bradslam on April 24, 2012, 05:25:42 PM
Well im going to put in my :twocents: I have hunted turkeys 13 years and never shot one off the roost. My big question is: why does everyone say it is unethical?? I have personally tried to get close to roosted birds both in the morning and the evening and have never got close. They always bust you and fly off well before you can get in range. If you are a good enough stalker to get within range of a smart gobbler without him detecting you, than that seems plenty fair chase to me and nothing unethical about it. Those who say turkeys will stay in a tree even with predators right beneath or near them, need to a little more experience with trying to stalk a roosted bird. I have seen countless times when a gobbler either saw the hunter when he was coming in or another predator such as a coyote and have flown off the roost in the opposite direction. Also the turkeys in this state generally roost about 3/4 of the way up the tree which is usually in excess of 30-40 yds off the ground. Unless you are directly under the tree, the bird is probably way out of range. Just some of my thoughts on the issue.How much experience do you want? I have hunted turkeys all over this state for many years and have got the slam several times. Let me give you a personal example from a few years ago while hunting Rios. I was out in the late evening roosting birds. At one location, I stopped and blew my coyote howler very loudly. The response came from a long beard about 15 feet directly above my head! In fact, I'm glad he didn't deficate on me. The situation was not what I intended, but that bird just sat there looking down at me. Even though he never moved while I was there, I wasn't sure he would be there the next morning, but sure enough, he was in the exact same spot. Now tell me you could get that close to one on the ground with it knowing you were there. I do think it is harder to get close to them on the roost in the morning especially the closer to daylight it gets, but I have had plenty of opportunities to shoot one out of the tree if I wanted. As far as the roosting turkeys being out of range unless directly under the tree, some of the country I hunt is very steep and you can look straight out at the birds if you are above them on the hill.
Post by: Fishnfowler on April 24, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
I love it :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
three simple words not directed at any person specifically and people take offense to it :stirthepot:
I'm with you Dan-o
And to think, I'm not a turkey hunter :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
But its the same debate every year :peep:
I'm told a fox smells his own hole first. I'm not calling you a troll, just sayin'.
As to ethics. You measure the character of a sportsman not by the heft of his gamebag, but by the manner of his pursuit. If someone here wants to shoot roosted turkeys, by all means have at it. Boasting about it here will tell us all we need to know. If that is "holier than thou," then count me in. Just like I know porn when I see it, I know a slob hunter when I see it.
Killing something for killings sake is what teenage boys do before they grow into men. Putting food on the table is a poor excuse for a broken moral compass.
Post by: MerriamMagician on April 24, 2012, 05:47:43 PM
Well im going to put in my :twocents: I have hunted turkeys 13 years and never shot one off the roost. My big question is: why does everyone say it is unethical?? I have personally tried to get close to roosted birds both in the morning and the evening and have never got close. They always bust you and fly off well before you can get in range. If you are a good enough stalker to get within range of a smart gobbler without him detecting you, than that seems plenty fair chase to me and nothing unethical about it. Those who say turkeys will stay in a tree even with predators right beneath or near them, need to a little more experience with trying to stalk a roosted bird. I have seen countless times when a gobbler either saw the hunter when he was coming in or another predator such as a coyote and have flown off the roost in the opposite direction. Also the turkeys in this state generally roost about 3/4 of the way up the tree which is usually in excess of 30-40 yds off the ground. Unless you are directly under the tree, the bird is probably way out of range. Just some of my thoughts on the issue.How much experience do you want? I have hunted turkeys all over this state for many years and have got the slam several times. Let me give you a personal example from a few years ago while hunting Rios. I was out in the late evening roosting birds. At one location, I stopped and blew my coyote howler very loudly. The response came from a long beard about 15 feet directly above my head! In fact, I'm glad he didn't deficate on me. The situation was not what I intended, but that bird just sat there looking down at me. Even though he never moved while I was there, I wasn't sure he would be there the next morning, but sure enough, he was in the exact same spot. Now tell me you could get that close to one on the ground with it knowing you were there. I do think it is harder to get close to them on the roost in the morning especially the closer to daylight it gets, but I have had plenty of opportunities to shoot one out of the tree if I wanted. As far as the roosting turkeys being out of range unless directly under the tree, some of the country I hunt is very steep and you can look straight out at the birds if you are above them on the hill.
Well I think it all depends on the bird, the scenario, and the geography. I'v never managed to get to close to a roosted one, but then again the only times I have tried have been in the morning when trying to set up within 50 yds of the bird. And I wasnt taking a shot at you or anyone else when I said people need more experience when trying to get real close to roosted birds. Again it all depends on the scenario and bird. They might all react a little differently, so my comment was a bit out of place. I just based my opinion through what I have experienced myself. Again, I have never shot one out of a tree, and probably wouldnt even with the given opportunity.
Post by: h20hunter on April 24, 2012, 06:07:34 PM
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 06:23:06 PM
I love it :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
three simple words not directed at any person specifically and people take offense to it :stirthepot:
I'm with you Dan-o
And to think, I'm not a turkey hunter :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
But its the same debate every year :peep:
I'm told a fox smells his own hole first. I'm not calling you a troll, just sayin'.
As to ethics. You measure the character of a sportsman not by the heft of his gamebag, but by the manner of his pursuit. If someone here wants to shoot roosted turkeys, by all means have at it. Boasting about it here will tell us all we need to know. If that is "holier than thou," then count me in. Just like I know porn when I see it, I know a slob hunter when I see it.
Killing something for killings sake is what teenage boys do before they grow into men. Putting food on the table is a poor excuse for a broken moral compass.
Wow... so glad the moral majority (which is neither) has spoken.... must be nice to be so perfect.. such a clean doorstep that you can judge others.
This is exactly how the Anti hunters will get us.... divide and conquer ....
I am so glad I was not raised a hunting snob..
There is a code of ethics I live by hunting...
Always know what I am shooting at
ALWAYS be safe with my firearms
Make clean, quick kills
Try and not intrude on someone else's hunt
If it is legal..... I am down with it...
Now.. .gonna take my unethical ass back out in the woods see if I can find that elk up in its roost... figure that picture is worth at least 10.00. Which is 9.99 more than this thread is worth..
Post by: The Gobble-stopper on April 24, 2012, 06:32:24 PM
Post by: Big game archer on April 24, 2012, 06:36:07 PM
Post by: dscubame on April 24, 2012, 06:43:58 PM
People that shoot birds out of trees don't enjoy what turkey hunting is really about. :twocents: I Won't shoot one out of tree or off the road. There is absolutely no sport in walking up to a tree in the dark, let it get to legal hours(which a lot don't do) and pull the trigger. Wow what a great hunt can't wait to tell my buddies about it :rolleyes:
You mean they do not enjoy what YOU think turkey hunting is really about.
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 06:47:52 PM
I hope none of you have ever taken a WILD steelhead or salmon out of the water for pictures, ,
Or done the "Texas Heartshot" at that once in a lifetime buck or bull...
Or shot a cougar or bear out of a tree
or shot more than 400 yards
or multitude of other things while in the woods..?????
Because there are people out there that think all of those and more are unethical... sure would not want you being all hypocritical and stuff and not following everyone elses ethics too....
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 06:52:14 PM
At what point can that bird be ethically taken?
* As soon as it hits the ground?
* After a 15 minute "sporting time out" when they hit the ground?
* Does it require a fair chance for said bird to wander out of range before shooting?
* Or??????
And a related question. If you know where the birds are roosted, and due to terrain etc, you know which way their going to hit the ground, is it unethical to set up that direction from their roost in the morning?
I happen to have a spot that regularly roosts birds, and they'll always come out the same direction - into the only good clearing right there. I never set up on that roost site - at least partially becaue it's far too far a drive for me to just shoot a bird at first light. But...... I might take my son there for a first bird.
Post by: cmiller85 on April 24, 2012, 06:59:10 PM
As a side note... to all you guys whose attitude is MY ETHICS ARE THE ONLY RIGHT ONES
I hope none of you have ever taken a WILD steelhead or salmon out of the water for pictures, ,
Or done the "Texas Heartshot" at that once in a lifetime buck or bull...
Or shot a cougar or bear out of a tree
or shot more than 400 yards
or multitude of other things while in the woods..?????
Because there are people out there that think all of those and more are unethical... sure would not want you being all hypocritical and stuff and not following everyone elses ethics too....
You're going too easy on these guys Huntbear. If one doesn't hike in at least 10 miles from the nearest road and kill an animal with any combination of sticks, stones and/or bare hands then one is an unethical, slob hunter.
Me on the otherhand, I won't shoot a gobbler unless, through my superior calling, I can coax him back and forth up and down until my name has been spelled in the sand with his wing tips while strutting in front of me; in Old English text no less. Anything else is too easy, and, of course, highly unethical.
Post by: dscubame on April 24, 2012, 07:07:28 PM
Post by: Seatown5 on April 24, 2012, 07:08:54 PM
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 07:10:55 PM
As a side note... to all you guys whose attitude is MY ETHICS ARE THE ONLY RIGHT ONES
I hope none of you have ever taken a WILD steelhead or salmon out of the water for pictures, ,
Or done the "Texas Heartshot" at that once in a lifetime buck or bull...
Or shot a cougar or bear out of a tree
or shot more than 400 yards
or multitude of other things while in the woods..?????
Because there are people out there that think all of those and more are unethical... sure would not want you being all hypocritical and stuff and not following everyone elses ethics too....
You're going too easy on these guys Huntbear. If one doesn't hike in at least 10 miles from the nearest road and kill an animal with any combination of sticks, stones and/or bare hands then one is an unethical, slob hunter.
Me on the otherhand, I won't shoot a gobbler unless, through my superior calling, I can coax him back and forth up and down until my name has been spelled in the sand with his wing tips while strutting in front of me; in Old English text no less. Anything else is too easy, and, of course, highly unethical.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Can I come watch an obviously "TRUE" turkey hunting master ????? I am but a poor grasshopper needing knowledge.... mold me into whatever your ethics dictate I should be...... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I had thought I had seen this before until you mentioned Old English text... then I knew... you ARE the one... You are the Turkey Hunting version of YODA.... :bow: :bow: :DOH: :DOH: :kneel: :kneel: :sas: :sas: :lol4: :lol4: :lol4:
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:11:17 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 24, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
Post by: seth30 on April 24, 2012, 07:16:59 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:22:42 PM
I'm going to get more chocolate milk and then I'd like to see an answer, please.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 07:24:19 PM
I still want to know when that roosted bird becomes ethical........
I'm going to get more chocolate milk and then I'd like to see an answer, please.
Turkeys aren't known for their ethics.
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:30:27 PM
Was it unethical of me to dangle my participle......? Or was it unethical of you to poin it out? :tup:
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:33:32 PM
If you roost a bird, and return in the AM, when is it ethical to shoot that bird? How long must it be on the ground, or what other items are on the "OK, now it's ethical" check list?
Thanks,
dan
Post by: boneaddict on April 24, 2012, 07:38:43 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
So, let me try again:
If you roost a bird, and return in the AM, when is it ethical to shoot that bird? How long must it be on the ground, or what other items are on the "OK, now it's ethical" check list?
Thanks,
dan
Never thought about it. I've set up near roosts, but far enough away to put out a decoy, build a blind, and call them in for a shot. That's probably more than a hundred yards, but nothing measured consciously. I personally wouldn't set up where they're going to land and shoot 'em when they hit the ground.
You seem kinda testy about this, Dan-O. Why is a conversation about differing ideas on ethics a problem, if it is? I think that's one of the better things a hunting site should have.
Post by: rasbo on April 24, 2012, 07:45:53 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 07:46:53 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:49:13 PM
I don't think I'm testy about it in truth, but my posts probably do look that way.
I'm just curious as to how people derive their ethics.
That's why I was wondering out loud when that (roosted) bird becomes fair game. Is it just a matter of letting it hit the ground, or do you have to call it in after it's been down a while, or.......? Is it ethical to lure it in with a jake decoy about to mount a hen decoy?
I just really don't know how to derive a set of ethical principles when it comes to this....
I like some of the thoughts put forth on this thread.....
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 07:51:21 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 24, 2012, 07:51:46 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 24, 2012, 07:54:45 PM
Quote
I'm just curious as to how people derive their ethicsLots of folks have touched on it I think, as its just a personal choice of what I think the hunt is about. To others its different. Not going to judge them for it(except for the hibernating bear) That one bugs me a bit.
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 08:00:18 PM
I'm always amazed at how people can derive such firm stances on the ethics of hunting-related stuff:
* Illuminocks
* battery operated duck decoy
* Electronic duck call
* Hunting deer over a pile of corn.... or on agricultural land, for that matter
* Spot lighting bobcats
* A pic of your bow with a flashlight on it. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Good and decent people have disagreed.......
Post by: bobcat on April 24, 2012, 08:07:02 PM
I'll tell you right now....if I see a roosted elk I'm shooting it. No ifs ands or butts. I do not want that smart of a critter passing on any genes.Just don't stand directly below it and you will be okay.
:chuckle: Sorry I got in a little late on this discussion but just had to LMAO at this comment. :)
Post by: christopheri on April 24, 2012, 08:11:50 PM
I want all of you to know I passed on this moose.... 8)
Mighty ethical of ya Rasbo... :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on April 24, 2012, 08:14:41 PM
Maybe I will hunt them nexy year.... Gobble Gobble........
RTSPRING
Post by: bobcat on April 24, 2012, 08:24:57 PM
Post by: Huntbear on April 24, 2012, 08:28:41 PM
Is it ethical to hunt turkeys while they're in the "rut"? That's what I want to know. When that stud turkey is thinking with the wrong head? Now how is that ethical? How would you like to get shot while on a date with a new girlfriend just as you're about to get lucky?
then no hunting bull elk in the rut sorry bow hunters...
or Buck deer in the rut.... sorry late archery and muzzy guys
Purely unethical :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :chuckle:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 08:31:23 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 08:32:59 PM
That's actually why I asked if it was ethical to put out a jake-that's-about-to-mount-a-hen decoy set up.
Hardly seems sporting to me........ I mean I know what I'd do if it was breeding season and some young punk moved in.......
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 08:39:12 PM
FAST FORWARD IT TO ABOUT THE MIDDLE .... TO GET TO MY POINT !!!! :chuckle:
Post by: runamuk on April 24, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
and as for the roosting elk maybe that would give me a sporting chance.....
Post by: Bofire on April 24, 2012, 08:49:19 PM
Carl
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 08:54:03 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 24, 2012, 08:58:20 PM
Post by: Turner89 on April 24, 2012, 09:34:49 PM
WTH... I do not see the majority of the serious turkey hunters commenting on that issue :yike: :yike: :o :o:yeah:
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! :dunno: >:( I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting :bdid: it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... :twocents: :sry: Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no :dunno:
Well said BH45.
Post by: ing on April 24, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
Absolutely legal, pending it's during legal hours. Ethical, no.Ethical, yes.
Post by: Annette on April 24, 2012, 09:40:03 PM
X2 :tup:WTH... I do not see the majority of the serious turkey hunters commenting on that issue :yike: :yike: :o :o:yeah:
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! :dunno: >:( I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting :bdid: it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... :twocents: :sry: Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no :dunno:
Well said BH45.
Post by: ing on April 24, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
WTH... I do not see the majority of the serious turkey hunters commenting on that issue :yike: :yike: :o :oI'm not much of a history buff, but i'm pretty sure the pilgrims shot turkeys out of their roost when they had the chance..
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! :dunno: >:( I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting :bdid: it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... :twocents: :sry: Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no :dunno:
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 24, 2012, 09:49:50 PM
People that shoot birds out of trees don't enjoy what turkey hunting is really about. :twocents: I Won't shoot one out of tree or off the road. There is absolutely no sport in walking up to a tree in the dark, let it get to legal hours(which a lot don't do) and pull the trigger. Wow what a great hunt can't wait to tell my buddies about it :rolleyes:
You mean they do not enjoy what YOU think turkey hunting is really
about.
Exactly, thats why I put this :twocents: at the end of my statement
Post by: runamuk on April 24, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
WTH... I do not see the majority of the serious turkey hunters commenting on that issue :yike: :yike: :o :oI'm not much of a history buff, but i'm pretty sure the pilgrims shot turkeys out of their roost when they had the chance..
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! :dunno: >:( I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting :bdid: it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... :twocents: :sry: Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no :dunno:
thats what I was thinking :dunno: historically you wanted to eat you killed an animal however you found it....
Post by: Kowsrule30 on April 24, 2012, 10:00:53 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 10:10:13 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 24, 2012, 10:15:45 PM
Best shot by far I've ever made on a thunder chicken!!!! It's just too easy when they walk right to you....
Another good point. Maybe the unethical act is actually shooting them on the ground.
Anyone ever try turkey hunting with a pointing dog? :)
For ground sluicing turkeys maybe a guy should be required to only use either a bow, or a 22 rimfire?
Post by: h2ofowlr on April 24, 2012, 10:17:23 PM
Then again that's how some role. They may never get a bird otherwise and wouldn't know how to hunt an animal unless they logged onto this site. :dunno:
What happened to the good old days. :yike:
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
Sneak under tree in the dark...wait for light...shoot turkey. Go home...... Booooooooooo............
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 24, 2012, 10:37:29 PM
Calling a turkey in is soooooooooooo much fun it's worth the price of admission to me. I'm into the tradition of it all. I'd wager back east or in the midwest where turkey hunting has a lot more "roots" than it does out here...these discussions don't come up much. I am not interested in shooting one out of a tree and I would give my hunting buddies a bunch of crap for doing it too. I don't know why anyone would want to. It's not like you're killing an animal with hundreds of pounds of gourmet meat. Certainly not doing it to put food on the table I hope. If so, butterballs would be a hell of a lot more delicious and a lot cheaper too.Well said! Plain and simple, if I don't call him in he walks! If you don't get the thrill of working the bird then all your left with is a stinky dead turkey which honestly don't taste all that great when compared to a butterball or chicken. Someone mentioned something earlier about sneaking on a couple toms! :bdid: Not safe and should never be done! I had a buddy get peppered a few years ago in gdale by a sneaker!
Sneak under tree in the dark...wait for light...shoot turkey. Go home...... Booooooooooo............
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2012, 10:40:38 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 24, 2012, 10:57:20 PM
Calling a turkey in is soooooooooooo much fun it's worth the price of admission to me. I'm into the tradition of it all. I'd wager back east or in the midwest where turkey hunting has a lot more "roots" than it does out here...these discussions don't come up much. I am not interested in shooting one out of a tree and I would give my hunting buddies a bunch of crap for doing it too. I don't know why anyone would want to. It's not like you're killing an animal with hundreds of pounds of gourmet meat. Certainly not doing it to put food on the table I hope. If so, butterballs would be a hell of a lot more delicious and a lot cheaper too.Well said! Plain and simple, if I don't call him in he walks! If you don't get the thrill of working the bird then all your left with is a stinky dead turkey which honestly don't taste all that great when compared to a butterball or chicken. Someone mentioned something earlier about sneaking on a couple toms! :bdid: Not safe and should never be done! I had a buddy get peppered a few years ago in gdale by a sneaker!
Sneak under tree in the dark...wait for light...shoot turkey. Go home...... Booooooooooo............
WOW I never heard about that! I have a few friends in law enforcement and this is a small town! Glad he is o.k! How long ago was that?
I was working a bird hard on the youth opener last year. He was playing everything perfect and so was I at first light. We were about 80 yards from the roost tree. All of a suden he shut up and I knew something was not right. Pretty soon 2 kids come sneaking along "without a adult" one has a 22 rifle and the other has a shotgun. I yelled at them and told them we were there and told them it is a very bad idea to be packing around a 22 with a tukey tag in your pocket and out turkey hunting :bash:
Post by: Turkeyman on April 25, 2012, 01:04:32 AM
We have no law saying you can not blow a turkey off the limb BUT Turkey hunting has its own set of rules and most serious turkey hunters take it serious and have that certain respect for turkeys than say a deer or an elk ..and blowing one off the roost is not in his vocabulary...Once someone ruins your hunt by listening to a gobbler in a tree while you are waiting for him to fly will serious send a charge to a mans temper... Including me !!! I have had several birds shot off the roost while we were calling to him and its not funny at all ...if you have to blow a bird out of a tree while on the roost then your not much of a hunter.....like I said us turkey hunters have our own set of rules and most who truely love turkey hunting will never do such a thing ... nothen in the game laws states that it is illegal because its hunting and they classify it as hunting ....just like shooting one on the side of the road ....I can handle that easier than blowing one off the limb ...For me its all about calling in a turkey and listening to him responding to my calls ....just like elk hunting ... its all in the way it was ment to be played ....the older you get the less your worried about just killing something ...you give more respect to the game than you did in your younger days ...you enjoy just being out there and not really caring if you get something or not.....blowing birds off the roost is just not ethical when turkey hunting it was never intended to be done in that manner So I highly advise not doing it that way .... Remember nothen by law says you can not but like I said turkey hunters have their own set of rules and thats a no no
:dunno: :tup: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bdid:
Post by: dscubame on April 25, 2012, 06:22:07 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on April 25, 2012, 07:31:52 AM
You're just :beatdeadhorse:
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2012, 07:43:01 AM
It should be obvious by now to all the traditinal turkey hunters that are passionate about their quality of hunt that you will never be able to say anything to convince anyone who is only concerned about whether it's legal, because they either don't truly care or are just egging you on.
You're just :beatdeadhorse:
It does kind of seem that way in these discussions sometimes. Ethical discussions are good for hunting. I have no idea why some people take it so personally when they hunt by different rules than others. Like I said before, I do things a certain way but if it's legal, everyone decides for themselves what their ethics are. If you don't like mine, I don't really care and I'm not going to hold yours against you either. But, berating someone for theirs is pointless. Haters just gotta hate, I think is the expression.
Post by: yelp on April 25, 2012, 08:09:47 AM
Do you see hunters on the outdoor channel surrounding a roost and flinging arrows shooting full choked shotguns, etc.?? I wonder why? Do you ever read articles in outdoor life about shooting roosted gobblers? I wonder why? Just saying that the majority of hunters in the USA grew up hunting wild turkeys. 50 years ago Wild turkeys didn't really exist in our state. Hunters who hunted turkeys back then were guys/gals transferred via military base or moved here from a state where they grew up hunting turkeys. In Washington state..we are relatively new to turkey hunting.
Many of us grew up being taught to stalk, flush, or road hunt our game. We flush grouse, pheasants..jump ducks, chase elk. Stalk bucks, etc..So the skills we learned are a part of of our upbringing or what our mentors taught us. Not everyone hunts the same. Many of us are nor willing to change because it is outside of our comfort zone. and if we try a new tactic/method and are unsuccessful we revert to the old taught ways.
Turkey hunting the roost isn't illegal.
Trying to shoot a tom in the dark or early morning is hard to ID. We should always properly identify our target. When grouse hunting there is no sex id requirement..therefore some will shoot grouse out of trees.
A Wild Turkey Roost provides more benefits to hunters than you know. It is a comfort/safety zone for turkeys. If left alone it will pay tenfold. Not all roosts are the same. Some roosts are communal and annual. Some roosts are sporadic and vary dependant on pressure, predation or hen movement after spring break up.
If left alone these sites will become areas that will hold turkeys.
Why is this topic comes up everyyear at this time???
Frustration. Many hunters DO NOT KNOW HOW TO HUNT TURKEYS. There is a basic way to go about turkey hunting. Many guys get frustrated and then revert to old methods..stalking, shooting flushing.
Why do these hunters feel they need to shoot a bird out of a roost? Because nothing is working? Its easy?? Not sure..I know that I talk with lots of hunters every year about how to hunt turkeys, what calls to make, how to out smart an ol gobbler. Its not easy. But more rewarding when that tom is gobbling 20 yards aways and he hears you safety go off!
Hunting in itself is defined differently by each of us. I have friends that all they do is road hunt and they kill turkeys every year. Is it illegal no. I for one enjoy the hunt. The challenge. The kill is only a small part. It isn't about meat for any of us. There are cheaper deals at the supermarket. Right now I am at $20/lb or more for my turkey. LOL .
I also like this notion that some of us are on a high horse. NOT. Some hunters again taught and/or brought up differently. I am available to anyone who wants to send me a PM and I will analyze any problem you are having Turkey hunting. I will try and figure out what options you have. I have killed lots of birds just like many of you. We can share experiences and hopfully provide solutions. Remember the three P's. Patience, Persistence and Perseverance.
There also is the term "roosting turkeys" This is a tactic used to identify where the turkeys are in the woods..it gives away there location. If we all start shooting birds off of the roost..we ruin the ability to locate them. Why do you guys think private land is where we see a majority of turkeys? The hunting pressure is less and sometimes the habitat is better.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 25, 2012, 11:15:48 AM
Post by: MR5x5 on April 25, 2012, 12:33:32 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=96496.0
Post by: Dan-o on April 25, 2012, 01:09:12 PM
But at that range, you better hold a little low.
Post by: Turkeyman on April 25, 2012, 01:18:09 PM
Post by: Skillet on April 25, 2012, 01:26:36 PM
I have to admit I'm a bit swayed by his and other's arguments against shooting a turkey on the roost. Being a turkey noob, I wouldn't have even thought twice about it. That's what this forum is so great for - it's like there's 10,000 Grandpa's on here to smack you up side the head when you're thinking about doing something stupid. :chuckle:
So, RIP Gramps. I got HuntWa.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 25, 2012, 07:59:47 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 25, 2012, 09:39:19 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 07:33:14 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 26, 2012, 07:34:32 AM
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on April 26, 2012, 07:56:23 AM
Turkeys on the roost are hard to identify. A game warden friend of mine growing up told me about a buy who came up to him right at dawn one morning bragging about shooting the biggest turkey ever off its roost. He showed it to the warden. It was a Turkey Vulture. OOPS.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on April 26, 2012, 08:03:39 AM
It should be obvious by now to all the traditinal turkey hunters that are passionate about their quality of hunt that you will never be able to say anything to convince anyone who is only concerned about whether it's legal, because they either don't truly care or are just egging you on.
You're just :beatdeadhorse:
It does kind of seem that way in these discussions sometimes. Ethical discussions are good for hunting. I have no idea why some people take it so personally when they hunt by different rules than others. Like I said before, I do things a certain way but if it's legal, everyone decides for themselves what their ethics are. If you don't like mine, I don't really care and I'm not going to hold yours against you either. But, berating someone for theirs is pointless. Haters just gotta hate, I think is the expression.
:yeah:
yelps :twocents: :tup:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 08:28:04 AM
Back home in Maine the wild turkeys come running or flying in whenever they hear the bird seed can rattle when we refill the feeders. They show up almost every morning and raise their young in the tall grass in our back field. I never turkey hunted there because it would have had no challenge. I could just step out on the porch with a slingshot and have turkey dinner. Well maybe not a slingshot. They are about the only thing I cannot seem to shoot proficiently. Perhaps that would make it sporting haha.big difference in baiting a turkey rather than calling a turkey ... go into the woods and try calling a turkey ....you might get him or you might not ... now go back to the same spot and toss out some corn and grain and see how much easier it was.... :dunno: no sense in comparing the two !!!!
Turkeys on the roost are hard to identify. A game warden friend of mine growing up told me about a buy who came up to him right at dawn one morning bragging about shooting the biggest turkey ever off its roost. He showed it to the warden. It was a Turkey Vulture. OOPS.
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on April 26, 2012, 08:38:13 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 08:49:40 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 26, 2012, 11:55:54 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on April 26, 2012, 12:35:51 PM
While this state has not said that shooting a tom from the roost or using sexy hen calls to get him in close enough is illegal, they definitely say that hunting over feed and shooting from roads are illegal.
Use to see a few guys that were hunting private land drive in to the Steven's County Fairgrounds and watch as their buds come running out and filling their buckets with grain for the next days hunt. Also new a landowner that feed the turkeys, and would bang on the side of his pail to get the birds in close so his son could shoot a couple. Also had a couple guys that have bragged that there is nothing to turkey hunting, you just drive up the country road until you see one you like and leap from your vehicle and shoot them. I also have had people stop on the road and fire into the birds I was working, and also seen them do it on posted land.
:bash:
Gives all sportsmen a black eye, and makes it harder to gain access to those lands.
That's why I ask, where do you draw the line ... at what's legal only, what's traditional acceptable, or no line at all.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 01:08:43 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on April 26, 2012, 01:27:14 PM
I patterned a flock of 17 birds @ 4 years ago...It would take them 7-8 days to make their rounds on 4-5 different ridges.... Different roost everyday.... On the sixth day Dad and I finally cut them off on a 4 mile stock.... He shot his in the face at 5 yards... I shot mine in the back of head at 27 when it was quartering away on a dead run.... Only call I ever used on that trip was a locater... I rather have them not know where I'm at and know right where they are as I stalk in... Having all those Ravens around was really their downfall though.... Might head back over there this year....
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 01:44:14 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 26, 2012, 02:09:04 PM
Makes it sound like someone is shooting them with a 30/06 out of a tree.
I really doubt a shotgun with bird shot will blow them out of a tree, probably just a few pellets will hit their small bird brain, and they then FALL out of the tree.
Just sayin'.
Unless these roosted turkey shooters are shooting them at 10 yards or less, then in that case I suppose they just might be BLOWN right out of the tree. :) :dunno:
Post by: sled on April 26, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 26, 2012, 02:44:56 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 26, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
I don't see the big deal about stalking a turkey.... That's how I mainly hunt them.... Have killed four that way.... Sitting calling them in isn't my cup of tea... It's no different then calling elk or deer while still hunting them or spot and stock..... So most turkey hunters are so trigger happy they pepper the first thing they see move???? Is that the problem??? It's no different then patterning any big game animal then hunting them.... They just fly and have two legs....
I patterned a flock of 17 birds @ 4 years ago...It would take them 7-8 days to make their rounds on 4-5 different ridges.... Different roost everyday.... On the sixth day Dad and I finally cut them off on a 4 mile stock.... He shot his in the face at 5 yards... I shot mine in the back of head at 27 when it was quartering away on a dead run.... Only call I ever used on that trip was a locater... I rather have them not know where I'm at and know right where they are as I stalk in... Having all those Ravens around was really their downfall though.... Might head back over there this year....
That sounds like fun and challenging, too.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 26, 2012, 08:41:55 PM
And just because the wdfw has deemed it legal or hasn't deemed it illegal to shoot a roosted turkey or a sitting duck does NOT mean its ethical to do so. Half of us spend most of our time on here b!?ching about wdfws rules now half of you on this thread are defending them? Hmmmmmm.
I can't stand skybusters when I'm duck hunting and shooting a turkey out of a roost or out of a flock on the side of the road doesn't seem real cool either. If you don't know how to do it right, go to cabelas in the summer and check out the how to videos in the clearance section. Don't go out in the field and make us all look like a bunch of *censored* bags! :twocents:
Post by: gaddy on April 26, 2012, 09:07:48 PM
hunt em hard & enjoy every day.
i figure the longer it takes, the more time i have chaseing them.
Post by: bobcat on April 26, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
Quote
Half of us spend most of our time on here b!?ching about wdfws rules now half of you on this thread are defending them? Hmmmmmm.
I didn't realize this had anything to do with any rules or lack of rules. This is about ethics, not laws. You can't have a law for everything. Shooting turkeys out of a tree is ethical in some people's minds, and not in others. Just like shooting a duck on the water or a pheasant on the ground is considered unethical by many. But generally I believe most people feel it's ok to shoot a grouse on the ground, or out of a tree. I remember several years ago at a WDFW commission meeting, a guy was there, I think representing the Ruffed Grouse Society, and he was trying to convince them to make it illegal to shoot grouse with a rifle or pistol, because in his mind it was unethical. My opinioin is, the fewer laws we have, the better. Let people make up their own minds on what feels right to them.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 26, 2012, 09:18:36 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 26, 2012, 09:25:07 PM
Ethics are often situational. "Shooting a duck on water" is quoted as an example of unethical behavior. What happens if you've crippled a duck and it's swimming away, and you have no dog? Do you just let it suffer, or is it more ethical to shoot it on the water? Sometimes the right thing is not legal, and sometimes the legal thing is not ethical.
I cannot think of a good case for shooting a turkey out of a roost tree. However, I'm glad that it is not illegal.
Post by: FC on April 26, 2012, 09:33:43 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 26, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
This has to be the dumbest thread I have ever read on this site.Hang in there. In a couple weeks there will be 500 posts about WA draw results that will give this one a good run for its money.
Post by: FC on April 26, 2012, 10:07:57 PM
Post by: Curly on April 27, 2012, 09:39:31 AM
:yeah:QuoteHalf of us spend most of our time on here b!?ching about wdfws rules now half of you on this thread are defending them? Hmmmmmm.
I didn't realize this had anything to do with any rules or lack of rules. This is about ethics, not laws. You can't have a law for everything. Shooting turkeys out of a tree is ethical in some people's minds, and not in others. Just like shooting a duck on the water or a pheasant on the ground is considered unethical by many. But generally I believe most people feel it's ok to shoot a grouse on the ground, or out of a tree. I remember several years ago at a WDFW commission meeting, a guy was there, I think representing the Ruffed Grouse Society, and he was trying to convince them to make it illegal to shoot grouse with a rifle or pistol, because in his mind it was unethical. My opinioin is, the fewer laws we have, the better. Let people make up their own minds on what feels right to them.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 27, 2012, 04:28:58 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on April 30, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
I don't see the big deal about stalking a turkey.... That's how I mainly hunt them.... Have killed four that way.... Sitting calling them in isn't my cup of tea... It's no different then calling elk or deer while still hunting them or spot and stock..... So most turkey hunters are so trigger happy they pepper the first thing they see move???? Is that the problem??? It's no different then patterning any big game animal then hunting them.... They just fly and have two legs....
I patterned a flock of 17 birds @ 4 years ago...It would take them 7-8 days to make their rounds on 4-5 different ridges.... Different roost everyday.... On the sixth day Dad and I finally cut them off on a 4 mile stock.... He shot his in the face at 5 yards... I shot mine in the back of head at 27 when it was quartering away on a dead run.... Only call I ever used on that trip was a locater... I rather have them not know where I'm at and know right where they are as I stalk in... Having all those Ravens around was really their downfall though.... Might head back over there this year....
That sounds like fun and challenging, too.
Harder then some of my deer and elk hunts!!!! :chuckle: