Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Shed Hunting => Topic started by: canyelk48 on May 04, 2012, 06:20:44 PM

Title: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: canyelk48 on May 04, 2012, 06:20:44 PM: I've hiked my tail off for 3 days this week at Joe Watt and managed to find one small 5 pt. elk antler and a tiny spike deer antler. Today in town I heard some talk about WDFW leaving the feed station with a pickup truck load of sheds before the May 1st opening. This supposedly was witnessed by more than one individual. I guess that would explain the lack of sheds being found. Just wondering if anyone else had much success at Joe Watt.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Bigtine96 on May 04, 2012, 06:58:34 PM: That would defeat the purpose of the feeding area being closed then wouldnt it.

But nothing would suprise me with this state
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 07:33:45 PM: Interesting, that is three years in a row now that we have heard this. It wouldn't surprise me if they did. They are usually a lot sneakier about it though.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: washelkhunter on May 04, 2012, 07:40:54 PM: Just another perk of F&G employ!
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 07:59:41 PM: I know the Boy Scouts get in before anyone else and gets to pick up all sheds found in the areas they feed.

That said, those "volunteers" have full access to the place any time they want. I watched them film the elk for almost 20 min. one day before beginning to feed. So if they are grabbing sheds, it would not surprise me one bit. ANOTHER black eye on WDFW, if true. And if true, those volunteers need to be fired and fined..
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 08:04:23 PM: I think the boy scouts in there is just a bad rumor. But as far as the volunteers, well now that is another story in itself. And yes they should be fired. It does no good to complain to the GW/WSGD about them, they will just deny and turn their heads the other way.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 08:06:41 PM: Quote from: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 08:04:23 PM
I think the boy scouts in there is just a bad rumor. But as far as the volunteers, well now that is another story in itself. And yes they should be fired. It does no good to complain to the GW/WSGD about them, they will just deny and turn their heads the other way.

I was told by a WDFW employee that the BSA gets first shot at them, just like in Jackson Hole Wyoming..... :dunno: :dunno:

If someone was to take a crap load of pictures of these guys doing this.... start posting them on some hunting boards all over the internet... I bet someone would take notice in Olympia... especially if the truck had a state emblem on the side...
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: washelkhunter on May 04, 2012, 08:25:59 PM: Good idea. Somefolks should also go in and spray paint the sheds fourescent orange, then followup to see where those end up.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 08:28:59 PM: Huntbear - That's interesting about the BSA I have heard this also and was told it wasn't true. I'd rather see them get them then the WSGD employees. At least they would go to a good cause. I hope you are right and BSA is picking them up.

As far as taking video, it is a great idea except here in Eburg our Robinson feedlot is back about 1/2 mile from the elk fence, so no way to get video w/o trespassing and when the Elk start dropping in Joe Watt the feeders start feeding way in the back out of site from the parking lot. I've personally watched from the parking lot and witnessed them pick several antlers up then called the game manager of the LT Murray and she said "nope our feeders haven't picked any antlers up this year". hmmm wonder where they ended up lol
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 08:42:34 PM: Oops! Sorry in my earlier post I used the word volunteer. Here in Eburg the feeders are not volunteers they get paid to feed the Elk, it is not like at Oak Creek where I believe they are still volunteers.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: crazyantler on May 04, 2012, 08:59:10 PM: I have witnessed it myself too and know for a fact that they pick them up as we have watched from the parking lot. I think they should disperse them back on the ground right before the opener to give people a chance at a trophy bull. I didnt see anyone packing any of the large sheds on May 1st.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 09:12:21 PM: Call the local WSGD office in Eburg ask to speak to the LT Wildlife manager and ask her how many antlers that their feeders have turned in over the last twenty years. Your answer will be three, one single and the match set the manager was holding up in the picture where she was talking about shed hunters spooking all of her elk. Then call Oak Creek and ask them how many their feeders have picked up over the last twenty years. They couldn't begin to tell you because it has been way to many. They auction them off and use the money to buy feed. The volunteers at Oak Creek turn them in and they are not getting paid buy you and I.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 09:17:40 PM: You may not be able to see them actually pick up the sheds.. but you can sure as hell video them driving in and out of there in their pick up trucks... and what may or may not be laying in the bed of the truck.. I would also call the Enforcement guys if I seen it happening... they can deal with it much more effeciently than that lady who is in charge of that area... if it is not open for everyone, they are committing a crime.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 09:31:35 PM: These guys have been doing it for years and years they are not amateur's. They put them in the front of the cab of the big feed truck and then drive into the hay barn to unload them. I have talked with Sargeant Mike Sprecher about it and he talked with the manager and she denied that it was going on. At the time the manager was Cindi Confer who now manages the Wenas Wildlife Area, maybe the new manager will look into it further?
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 09:36:26 PM: I would make sure that she and the LEO understand that letters and photographs are being sent to Olympia if they do not investigate and make sure this is not happening and if it is, that the idiots are being punished according to the letter of the law...
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: runamuk on May 04, 2012, 09:40:23 PM: Does anyone have any photos of them picking up the sheds? That might be the first step unfortunately its too late this season but might keep it in mind for next to start trying to document with pics so there is some sort of evidence that backs up the complaint.....
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 09:46:46 PM: I couldn't agree more Huntbear, believe me we've been working on it.

Runamuk, as stated before pictures and video are tough to get, when the Elk start to drop they move the entire feeding process clear to the back of the feedlot where you can't watch them. All winter they feed out front for everyone to enjoy then come March the program changes.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 09:49:06 PM: Quote from: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 09:46:46 PM
I couldn't agree more Huntbear, believe me we've been working on it.

Runamuk, as stated before pictures and video are tough to get, when the Elk start to drop they move the entire feeding process clear to the back of the feedlot where you can't watch them. All winter they feed out front for everyone to enjoy then come March the program changes.

there are enough photo guys on here.. surely someone has a very LONG lens... I would walk right up that fence line, till I could see over where they are feeding on the other side of the creek.. set up with the camera on a tri pod.. let em see ya..... start snapping pics as soon as they are near the elk.. do not stop until they are done...
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 09:50:43 PM: I would be more than willing to volunteer some time whenever I can get over there next year.. I made 4 trips this year..
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: danderson on May 04, 2012, 10:01:55 PM: I called the game manager at Joe Watt a few years ago about our local Boy Scout troop possibly getting to help with the feeding program as a community service project, free labor. apparently they didn't want any help because we were told that we couldn't help, I have heard the rumors about boy scouts getting in there first but dint believe it. It only makes sense that antlers must drop in the feeding area before the May 1st opener like Oak creek and they get picked up by the folks that are feeding, what happens to the antlers after that is a mystery.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 04, 2012, 10:05:17 PM: No mystery... I am sure those feed crews have very nice collections, or they sell them to a horn buyer.... make themselves a nice nest egg...
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 10:09:37 PM: Might work Huntbear. And they have never sold them and YES it is quite a collection.

Here's my story: We watched a bull drop in Joe Watt one morning, half an hour later the feeders showed up. They sat in the truck for 1/2 an hour and video the Elk and looked at them through their binos. Once they spotted the shed they started feeding towards the shed, got right up to the shed turned the truck sideways and blocked my view and pic taking. One of them got out of the truck, elk moved off, not far, screwed around for a couple minutes outside the truck then got back in and started feeding. Once they got up the hill aways the shed was gone. We waited three days to give them a chance to turn it in, then called GW. He sounded upset and said he would check into it for us. Two days later he called me back and said "I talked to the manager and they haven't picked any sheds up this year, but you are not the first one who has had stories like this so I'm going to keep an eye on them" Never heard another thing about it.

danderson-The mystery is that the a lot of them are in the loft of a barn on the northeast side of our valley. I wish they would let the BSA in to pick the antlers, better them than the WSGD employees that we are paying.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: luvtohnt on May 04, 2012, 10:19:04 PM: I happen to know both of the individuals that feed at Watt. Anything they pick up is to prevent damage to the truck. As far as sitting there and looking at the elk they have to perform daily counts in order to determine the correct amount to feed the next day. Anything that they do pick up has to be tagged and is sitting at the office in Ellensburg. The BSA going in early is a nasty perpetual rumor and nothing more. So far this year me and some acquaintances have had good luck. We got 8 on Tuesday, and 5 more tonight. A friend of a friend found 14 on Tuesday, and a close friend found 5 on Wednesday. It is all a matter of luck when it comes to finding sheds in Watt! It seems the elk use different routes every year, they are defiantly impossible to pattern when leaving the feed station.

Brandon
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 04, 2012, 10:23:04 PM: Brandon- Aren't you one of the feeders or were you one at one time?
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: danderson on May 04, 2012, 10:44:24 PM: I know in the past that any antlers that the state picked up weather off road kills or confiscated racks from poaching etc, they were stored somewere locally supposabaly to be auctioned off later, heard it from reliable sources they dont want to store the dang things, and they take up valuable space, it would make sence to give the sheds away to a worthy organization like the boy scouts or another worthy group, instead of just denied that there is a problem, and having the apperance of cronyism.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: lewy on May 04, 2012, 11:15:25 PM: A buddy and I did oak creek may 1st and found numerous boot tracks in the dried mud of the game trails on the hill just above the feild they feed in, obviously from prior to the opener. I would seriously doubt someone would be brave enough to sneek in and tromp around right there........ :dunno: no doubt this kind of stuff is going on
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: hunterofelk on May 05, 2012, 06:57:59 AM: I can understand the need to pick up antlers that are visible from the fence. If they don't someone will climb over and pick them up. I think the manager should drive up the canyon and toss the antlers off into the brush. I see all the anticipation and excitement of the people when we are waiting for the gate to open. You'd think the government officials would want the public interested in our public lands. An activity other than driving around the roads might keep people coming back and help keep their jobs.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: crazyantler on May 05, 2012, 07:45:01 AM: Another piece of the puzzle that causes this whole problem is the fact your dealing with a bureaucracy that is full of people tyring to cover their backside and will say and do anything to avoid hypocrisy and a blimish in the public eye.
If they wanted to possibly mitigate this whole issue they could do a FOOT access only opener on the 15th of April and then open the gates on the 1st. I believe this would help gradually move the elk around without the impact of all the motorized vehicles running the Elk silly as I have seen the past several years. Plus it would eliminate half of the people that are not willing to walk.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 05, 2012, 06:11:49 PM: Not a bad idea crazyantler. I to have wondered about the mad May 1st crash into the lots. The poor Elk have to be thinking WTH is going on. It has got to seem like it is rifle season all over again for the Elk.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: luvtohnt on May 05, 2012, 07:38:48 PM: While my name is similar to one of the guys that fed the elk it is not me. Sorry!

Brandon
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Grazer on May 06, 2012, 09:43:51 PM: Now you know where all of our money for tags goes. To pay for the game department's fuel, so they can rob us of all the glory.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: groundhog on May 07, 2012, 08:18:06 AM: LUVTOHNT,
I usually agree with most of your post but you are wrong on this one.

The feeders have been stealing antlers out of the feedlot for over twenty years. I know people that have seen the collection of antlers. The head feeder has the big bulls named and has sets from several years off of the same bulls. If you don't believe it just ask your buddy if you can look in his reloading room in the loft of his barn.
Do they get all of the antlers? Of course not. Do they get a lot of the biggest antlers? You bet they do. Between the Feeders and the Fence jumpers most of the bigger antlers have been picked up long before the gate opens.

I am glad that you found a few antlers. If someone has a good day on the opener it is because they found a spot that hadn't been hit by the feeders or fence jumpers. Not because they found some new route. Everyone would have a great opening day if most of the antlers hadn't already been picked up.

Oak creek is run better then Ellensburg. Oak creek has volunteers for the feeding program and they have ride alongs and they involve the public. They try to keep the fence jumpers out by using trail cams and actual enforcement patrol.

In Ellensburg we pay the feeders to steal from us and we let the fence jumpers have a hay day. Law enforcement doesn't seem to care about any of it. If they would write some big tickets to some of the fence jumpers and shut down the feeders it would be amazing how many antlers would be on the hill opening day.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 07, 2012, 07:05:45 PM: Ya what Groundhog said.

It is ridiculous what goes on before May 1st. I also know of two people who have been in that barn and witnessed the pile of sheds that comes out of Robinson and Joe Watt. Years and years of the same bull. They even kept a big 6x6 winter kill bull that died in Joe Watt and the last I heard they still had it and enforcement hadn't taken it from them yet. And believe me enforcement knew they had it. I know a guy that saw the dead bull at their house and the sheds from previous years. About one year ago, according to Sergeant Mike Sprecher there had only been three antlers turned into the Eburg office that the feeders had picked up. I've talked to him personally many times about this issue and believe he was trying to do something about it but unfortunately he left and went back up North. Ya right, three sheds in over twenty years. Talk to Oak Creek about how many they pickup and do the math.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: crazyantler on May 08, 2012, 03:36:32 PM: Well said Groundhog. I new some of the guys that did this when the program was first up and running before the giant bulls started coming in and the horns were sitting pretty above the fireplace mantel. Back then I didn't think to ask the question if they had the right to take them but things have not changed a bit. There was just to many big bulls in there and to see antlers laying on the ground one minute and gone after feeding doesn't take a genius to know they picked the lowest of low hanging fruit!
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: boneaddict on May 08, 2012, 03:57:47 PM: Quote
Does anyone have any photos of them picking up the sheds?

I'll fence jump and photograph them doing it if you guys pay my ticket.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 08, 2012, 07:20:44 PM: I will cover the ticket Boneaddict' as I know you will get great pictures that would work when we take them to Olympia. Would you mind packing a video camera also?

crazyantler-not sure which one of the two you knew when the program first started but one of them is still a feeder today. He started the first year, right after they took it away from the volunteers and is still feeding the elk. What hung on the mantle then fills an entire loft in a barn now.

Keeping the public out till May 1st probably had to happen as antler hunting got to popular, too fast. But this should mean everyone, including WSGD employees. It is criminal to allow the WSGD employees to pick all the big antlers up and then to have LEO and game managers deny it.

It wouldn't be every hard for LEO to set them up and put an end to this nonsense. DAMN they are being paid by the public to rob us blind. It has been going on for way to many years and needs to stop.

The LEO's also need to patrol it more often, put out cameras and make the fine steeper so the word gets out and keeps all the fence jumpers out. But they spend most of their time hassling the fisherman on Matoon and Fio Rito. If the fine was $1000 for fence jumping, I bet they'd be up on the elk fence.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: boneaddict on May 08, 2012, 09:03:34 PM: Funny thing is that May 1st is such an arbitrary date. Grass was already a foot tall in the area, and the animals could have been easily dispersed. I wish they'd move it to the opener of Turkey season. There is a lot of public ground that we are closed off from for Turkey season and bottlenecked elsewhere due to that date. We had already had a 90 degree day prior to that May 1st opener. BRILLIANT
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: crazyantler on May 08, 2012, 09:06:20 PM: From the sounds of it, looks like a May 1st opener could be at the loft next year!
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: runamuk on May 08, 2012, 09:13:25 PM: How does one get the feeding gig?? I wouldnt steal antlers and would love feeding ... hell I'd do it for the cost of my gas to get out there.....and I'd volunteer if gas wasnt so bloody expensive..... thinking next season we need to start sitting and pic taking at feeding times once they start dropping
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Huntbear on May 08, 2012, 09:22:25 PM: Get bone out there with an 800 mm lens with a 2x converter on it.... get closeups.. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: SpotandStalk on May 08, 2012, 10:26:18 PM: I tend to keep my mouth shut on most issues that come up on this forum but Groundhog blabbing his has sparked a response. It seems ironic to me that you of all people would be so quick to point the finger when it often gets pointed in your direction. Your name is synonymous with the term fence jumper to many a folk in Kittitas Valley, whether deserved or not. Your collection of bone is whispered to be mighty, should I make assumptions on how you acquired it?? I have agreed with you on much of your posts regarding the Colockum over the last few months, but the negative rhetoric on our local DFW employees gets old. Does DFW pick up a few sheds in the feeding site?....I am sure they do. Do they haul truck loads out?.....give me a break. Should I believe everything I hear regarding your activities?
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: coachcw on May 09, 2012, 06:29:17 AM: I'm sure they picked some nice bone up ( bummer ). But alot of the bulls That I saw hanging around late where dinks , my bet is there are some good bone further up the ridge . theres a spot four or five miles from there that I stumble across them during archery season . Just the sheer number of people looking limit the numbers each guy finds . I'd probilly have a hard time not picking up a big shed if I was a feeder , just saying.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: groundhog on May 09, 2012, 10:18:08 AM: Spot and stalk,
I do not want to get into a pissing match. Should I have blabbed my mouth about the feeders? Probably not. I was going to keep my big mouth shut this year. I guess when I saw that Brandon was defending them it was more than I could take.

You said that it was ironic that I would be pointing the finger because it is rumored that I have a mighty collection of antlers and that it is also rumored that I am a fence jumper. I can guarantee you that no one has any first hand knowledge or evidence of me jumping the fence because it didn't happen. I prefer to do my shed hunting in areas where I do not have to look over my shoulder and worry about getting a ticket.

I would gladly take a lie detector test if the feeders will take one with me!!! That wont happen though because I know I will pass and they know they would fail!!!!

I never said anything about truck loads of antlers. I said "Do they get all of the antlers? Of course not. Do they get a lot of the biggest antlers? You bet they do.

If I am a fence jumper why would I call the wdfw agents every year and push for steeper fines for fence jumping and push for more active foot patrols by enforcement?

Yes, I have a nice collection of Elk sheds. It might have to do with thousands of miles of hiking and over thirty years of experience. You can assume or believe what you like about me. I know the truth and so do the people that know me and that is all that matters.

The reason I spoke up is because I think that everyone should have a shot at finding some nice antlers on opening day. Not just people that are willing to break the law.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: canyelk48 on May 09, 2012, 12:48:23 PM: Perhaps if enough of us on this forum sends an email to WDFW complaining about what people have seen the feeders doing, that it might get their proper attention and force them to take appropriate action to stop the feeders from helping themselves to sheds. One or two complaints seem to fall on deaf ears, but hopefully a flood of emails will make them sit up and take notice for a change. The fence jumpers may even stop their illegal activities if they know they'll have a fair chance on opening day. Worth a try??
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 09, 2012, 02:06:41 PM: canyelk48- I like your thinking and it may just work. We also need to include in our letter that they should try and patrol it more often and if they catch someone make it a hefty fine. Every time I have called them. which is a lot, they always tell me that they have bigger fish to fry and are way to busy to worry about people jumping the fence. I can fully understand that they are very busy with other matters but if the fine was very hefty it might be worth their efforts.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: MtnMuley on May 09, 2012, 02:16:22 PM: Quote from: canyelk48 on May 09, 2012, 12:48:23 PM
Perhaps if enough of us on this forum sends an email to WDFW complaining about what people have seen the feeders doing, that it might get their proper attention and force them to take appropriate action to stop the feeders from helping themselves to sheds.

I like your intention, but unfortunately, I feel that WDFW sould use this example for the implementation of a statewide "shed horn" season. I DO NOT like that idea. :twocents:
Quote from: groundhog on May 09, 2012, 10:18:08 AM

It might have to do with thousands of miles of hiking and over thirty years of experience. You can assume or believe what you like about me. I know the truth and so do the people that know me and that is all that matters.

I hear you there.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Pinetar on May 09, 2012, 03:42:11 PM: Does DFW pick up a few sheds in the feeding site?....I am sure they do. Do they haul truck loads out?.....give me a break.

spotandstalk - I'm sure you are right, I doubt they haul truck loads out at a time. But I will guarantee you that if you tried to put all the sheds they have pulled from the 2 feedlots over the years you would have a hard time getting them into three full size trucks.

If the general public can't go up there until May 1st, what gives them the right to rape the lots of all the big sheds? Everybody should have the same equal chance.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: crazyantler on May 09, 2012, 03:53:00 PM: Its funny that everyone refers to "Fence Jumper", from what I saw you can walk right through the gate on top of the hill or roll right under the main gate with a pack on. Maybe they should make the fence ELECTRIC! Well I am done monitoring the chatter as it was fun but lets get excited about hunting next year and hopefully an early spring so all the animals get good a far away from the feed sites!
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 28, 2012, 10:55:24 PM: Here's where you can find Joe Watt Canyon sheds. Think of the gas money you save! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

http://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/state,wa/browse/cataucs?catid=2401
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: winshooter88 on May 29, 2012, 03:04:05 AM: I've seen a lot of posts saying to make the fines higher, and that is a good idea. Unfortunately the WDFW doesn't have that authority, only the state legislators can change what the fines are. WDFW can request changes, but the decision is made in the legislature.
Title: Re: Joe Watt Canyon
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 29, 2012, 06:26:26 AM: well the way this state runs its amazing its not life in prison for poaching :rolleyes: :chuckle: :chuckle: