Post by: mpetersen on May 09, 2012, 08:30:40 AM
Post by: PolarBear on May 09, 2012, 08:45:06 AM
Post by: bullcanyon on May 09, 2012, 08:52:38 AM
Post by: mpetersen on May 09, 2012, 08:57:57 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 09, 2012, 09:25:45 AM
Post by: mpetersen on May 09, 2012, 09:30:05 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 09, 2012, 09:39:07 AM
Post by: mpetersen on May 09, 2012, 09:49:01 AM
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 09, 2012, 09:52:22 AM
Post by: Huntbear on May 09, 2012, 09:57:21 AM
This is nothing more than those property owners greasing the palms of WDFW to get the unit downgraded so they can build a lodge, and have rich hunters come in and hunt for trophy Roosies...
The WDFW did nothing about the purchase - seems they have money for other purchases of land... this is right along the blast zone so should have been declared critical habitat for the elk.. besides being right next to the National Monument area... Hell, RMEF did nothing either... so maybe those slime balls are in on it too, since they promote rich people hunting, not hunting opportunties for NORMAL working class people....
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 09, 2012, 10:10:49 AM
Post by: kentrek on May 09, 2012, 10:31:55 AM
There are PLENTY of BIG ASS BULLS in that unit if you know where to go, and are willing to hike a trail 4-5 miles in..... I have seen numerous 7x7 bulls and bigger with bellies almost dragging the ground they are so fat... You just have to know where to go and be willing to hike...
This is nothing more than those property owners greasing the palms of WDFW to get the unit downgraded so they can build a lodge, and have rich hunters come in and hunt for trophy Roosies...
The WDFW did nothing about the purchase - seems they have money for other purchases of land... this is right along the blast zone so should have been declared critical habitat for the elk.. besides being right next to the National Monument area... Hell, RMEF did nothing either... so maybe those slime balls are in on it too, since they promote rich people hunting, not hunting opportunties for NORMAL working class people....
:yeah: i heard that rmef did nothing because it wasnt ROCKY MTN ELK.. :bash: :bash: the high lake country is "gods" country not rich peaples country :twocents:
Post by: HntnFsh on May 09, 2012, 06:23:33 PM
[/quote] :bash: :bash: the high lake country is "gods" country not rich peaples country :twocents:
[/quote]
WAS not IS
Post by: bowhunterty on May 09, 2012, 06:27:09 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 09, 2012, 06:45:05 PM
But they are not true Roosies by P & Y or B & C boundries.
They are considered Cascade Roosies... But still, you get into some of that backcountry, there are some monsters... I have personally seen a 9x7 that I am sure would have gone 1000 + lbs. His legs looked really short, because he was so thick from front to back...
Post by: bowhunterty on May 09, 2012, 06:58:57 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2012, 07:00:53 PM
But they are not true Roosies by P & Y or B & C boundries.
They are considered Cascade Roosies... But still, you get into some of that backcountry, there are some monsters... I have personally seen a 9x7 that I am sure would have gone 1000 + lbs. His legs looked really short, because he was so thick from front to back...
Pope & Young and Boone & Crockett do not have a "Cascade" elk category. It is either a Rocky Mtn or a Roosevelt. I believe the "Cascade" classification is in the Washington State record book.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 09, 2012, 07:06:30 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 09, 2012, 07:12:45 PM
Post by: bowhunterty on May 09, 2012, 07:28:56 PM
Post by: erk444 on May 09, 2012, 08:20:33 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
If you have 13 points in quality, and only 3 in bull, does that mean you try to draw the Margaret tag with only 3 points? A friend has been puttin in for that tag for years. He has 14 points now in quality, but only 9 in bull. Is he gettin screwed :dunno:
Yes, he's getting bent over with no lube.
Kinda sucks when the state can change the rules right in the middle of the game, doesn't it?
Post by: bowhunterty on May 09, 2012, 08:28:38 PM
Post by: kentrek on May 09, 2012, 09:23:09 PM
:bash: :bash: the high lake country is "gods" country not rich peaples country :twocents:
[/quote]
WAS not IS
[/quote]
yeah i sapose your right.. :'(
Post by: Bluesdude on May 10, 2012, 07:06:10 AM
There are PLENTY of BIG ASS BULLS in that unit if you know where to go, and are willing to hike a trail 4-5 miles in..... I have seen numerous 7x7 bulls and bigger with bellies almost dragging the ground they are so fat... You just have to know where to go and be willing to hike...
This is nothing more than those property owners greasing the palms of WDFW to get the unit downgraded so they can build a lodge, and have rich hunters come in and hunt for trophy Roosies...
The WDFW did nothing about the purchase - seems they have money for other purchases of land... this is right along the blast zone so should have been declared critical habitat for the elk.. besides being right next to the National Monument area... Hell, RMEF did nothing either... so maybe those slime balls are in on it too, since they promote rich people hunting, not hunting opportunties for NORMAL working class people....
Huntbear - shhhhh!!!! I know that unit like the back of my hand and where the big bulls are too, let's tell everyone the unit sucks and all there is are raghorns and 5x5's, any maybe everyone wont apply for tags in there! :tup:
Post by: bucklucky on May 10, 2012, 08:10:23 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 10, 2012, 12:49:00 PM
Post by: bowhunterty on May 10, 2012, 01:32:27 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on May 10, 2012, 03:26:33 PM
I couldn't imagine how upset I would be to finally score one of those tags just to get locked out by the weather !
The game department will just tell you to deal with it. That is what they are telling the archery hunters re: fire closures. Read the responses to the public comments. They claim fire closure can happen in any season. Sure, and I have some waterfront property in Arizona!
They changed this unit so they could sell more permits and make more money.
Post by: Huntbear on May 10, 2012, 04:15:33 PM
So basically where you guys are talking about the "Big Bulls" your talking about hunting where it is illegal to hunt?? Im just curiouse becasue where I thought I would go (The last arera I see a 9x9 in 8) ) if I had the tag looks to be federal park service land and that is not accessible to hunt from what I understand???? Its the only place you can hike 5 miles in :dunno: Am I wrong about that ?? I plan on putting in for it this year for fun . I have hunted the Margret since 1985 with my family .
Not illegal to shoot where I see the big boys...matter of fact it is WELL inside the Margaret boundary lines... you just have to be willing to hump it in and out every day .. Of course if you do your homework it is all done opening day, then you can sit in camp and drink beer......
Post by: finnman on May 10, 2012, 10:07:03 PM
Has anybody heard who purchased the 7000 acres in the margaret???????
I know who bought a couple thousand up there, in fact he owns one of the lakes up there now. My cousin went camping up there last year too. I may try to get some access some time when I am bored...
Post by: bobcat on May 10, 2012, 10:24:56 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 10, 2012, 10:48:34 PM
I'm really starting to wonder what plans this "St Helens Noble Farms LLC" has for their property in the Margaret unit. I wonder if they've been talking to the WDFW about turning it into a PLWMA?
It's not much good right now for the landowner because to hunt elk you need to first draw a Margaret permit, which is pretty much a once in a lifetime permit.
Hmm... wonder if this has anything to do with the Margaret permits being switched from Quality to the regular Bull category this year?
Post by: Huntbear on May 10, 2012, 11:26:05 PM
No comment? Anyone heard of Sam Agnew?
I'm really starting to wonder what plans this "St Helens Noble Farms LLC" has for their property in the Margaret unit. I wonder if they've been talking to the WDFW about turning it into a PLWMA?
It's not much good right now for the landowner because to hunt elk you need to first draw a Margaret permit, which is pretty much a once in a lifetime permit.
Hmm... wonder if this has anything to do with the Margaret permits being switched from Quality to the regular Bull category this year?
I have heard plans are for a huge lodge up there... and yes bobcat, you are catching on quick.. WDFW is being a money whore and doing the bidding of a private landowner with lots of money...
Post by: bobcat on May 10, 2012, 11:35:56 PM
And then the name "Agnew" seems to be coming up, and I'm sure everyone knows of Dan Agnew, big time elk hunter.
So now the Agnew family ends up with one of the best elk hunting areas in the state?
All that the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation does to protect lands such as this, and they didn't grab this one up? WTH!
Post by: Huntbear on May 10, 2012, 11:48:11 PM
Well surely they couldn't have bought the property up there for only the purpose of growing noble fir trees. :dunno:
And then the name "Agnew" seems to be coming up, and I'm sure everyone knows of Dan Agnew, big time elk hunter.
So now the Agnew family ends up with one of the best elk hunting areas in the state?
All that the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation does to protect lands such as this, and they didn't grab this one up? WTH!
they knew about the sale before it happened too.... did nothing. some say it is because they are Roosevelt elk.. they do not care.
My opinion and again.. no absolute proof.. More money changed hands than just to Weyerhauser.... there was some greasing the wheels and a plan in place or this would have never happened
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 07:04:55 AM
Quote
More money changed hands than just to Weyerhauser....
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
Post by: Curly on May 11, 2012, 07:57:43 AM
QuoteMore money changed hands than just to Weyerhauser....
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
Like between whom? :dunno:
Post by: Fireant11 on May 11, 2012, 09:09:53 AM
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 11, 2012, 09:54:56 AM
Post by: kentrek on May 11, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
Has anybody heard who purchased the 7000 acres in the margaret???????
I know who bought a couple thousand up there, in fact he owns one of the lakes up there now. My cousin went camping up there last year too. I may try to get some access some time when I am bored...
there must be more than one land owner because there are a handfull of lakes up there and its all private.we tried ever way posible to get back there legaly and its all gated.
i also agree that there is no way someone bought that just for trees.esp since the trees are prety tiny up there.i know there are going to be some very angry peaple if it turns into a rich mans place to hunt
Post by: nailbender on May 11, 2012, 11:51:47 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 11:57:05 AM
I hunted this area last year and talk to someone who is an acquaintance of Dan. He had told me that yes it was Dan who bought that land under the name of Saint Helens Noble Tree Farm. He has built a nice cabin on one of the ridges there and we could see other hunters in there at the same time. Pretty common knowledge among the locals I guess.
So he lets people hunt there for a trespass fee, or what? Or do all his friends somehow get lucky and draw Margaret elk permits?
Post by: rbros on May 11, 2012, 01:30:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 01:43:45 PM
Wonder if he gets any depredation permits :chuckle:
That's a good possibility! I hadn't thought of that, but it COULD happen! I wonder how we can find out?
Something fishy is going on, no doubt about that.
Post by: rbros on May 11, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
Not sure if deer and elk work the same way, but I am guessing that they do.
Just looked this up:
Mule deer, black-tailed deer, white-tailed deer, Roosevelt elk, and Rocky Mountain elk are classified as game animals (WAC 232-12-007). A hunting license and open season are required to hunt them. However, after obtaining a kill permit issued by WDFW, a property owner, the owner’s immediate family, owner’s documented employee, or tenants of real property may kill one or more deer or elk on the property if the animals are damaging commercial crops or livestock. (WAC 232-36-051, RCW 77.36.030).
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 02:11:45 PM
Quote
All you have to do is show that they are damaging your crops. Which would be noble fir tree's in this instance.
Mystery solved!
I bet you could get even more than the normal number of damage tags if you have enough money and give it to the right person. :dunno: :bash:
Post by: rbros on May 11, 2012, 02:14:32 PM
WDFW has created several landowner programs that benefit landowners and hunters alike. The following examples are exceptions with special circumstances and limitations: ◦The landowner hunting permit (LHP) program has been implemented by the Fish and Wildlife Commission (WAC 232-28-295). The program is designed to increase hunter access to private lands and to help landowners address long-standing deer/elk damage issues. LHPs can include permits issued to landowners that allow hunting without a landowner access fee; that allow hunting only if a landowner access fee is paid; or a combination of both. Permit levels, types, and seasons are allocated and approved in advance by the Commission based upon input from the LHP contractors/participants. The approved hunting seasons and regulations may, in some cases, be different than those approved for the hunting public during general seasons.
◦The Fish and Wildlife Commission also has approved damage prevention permits (DPPs) (WAC 232-28-266). DPPs provide landowners with a management tool that utilizes hunters to address property damage. Once issued to a landowner by the Commission, a DPP allows the properly licensed landowner to remove damage-causing deer/elk/turkey, or it allows another licensed hunter to be selected by the landowner to take the animal(s). Landowners and/or hunters may keep harvested wildlife, and landowners may charge and keep access fees in lieu of submitting damage claims to WDFW. The timing of a DPP harvest is not dictated by general hunting seasons, but by the occurrence of depredation.
◦Kill permits are authorized by WAC 232-36-051 under the authority of the WDFW Director. A kill permit may be issued to a landowner and immediate family that have documented deer and elk damage. An animal killed under this authority may be retained by the landowner if authorized by the Director. No licenses or tags are required. Landowners may be allowed to retain the animal in exchange for agreeing to not submit damage claims. The timing of a kill permit is not dictated by general hunting seasons, but by the occurrence of depredation
I need to buy more property in Washington State that borders hunting areas. So in theory, one could get LHP permits, DPP permits and Kill permits. Any the kill permits don't require a license or have a hunting season. Good move on his part with purchasing the property if this was his intent.
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 02:23:38 PM
Post by: Curly on May 11, 2012, 02:24:49 PM
Wish I could win the Lotto........oh yeah, I'd have to buy a lotto ticket in order for that.... :DOH:
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 02:30:58 PM
What about this idea- maybe the plan was to move Margaret from a quality permit to a regular bull permit this year, then next year move it to the general season. That way the private landowners wouldn't have to deal with damage permit paperwork any longer. Just buy a tag and hunt.
Post by: WSU on May 11, 2012, 02:31:05 PM
Wonder if he gets any depredation permits :chuckle:
That's a good possibility! I hadn't thought of that, but it COULD happen! I wonder how we can find out?
Something fishy is going on, no doubt about that.
Public records request.
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 02:32:20 PM
Quote
Public records request.
Well, I think it's time to do a little digging...
Post by: WSU on May 11, 2012, 02:33:44 PM
QuotePublic records request.
Well, I think it's time to do a little digging...
Here you go: http://www.atg.wa.gov/Records.aspx
Post by: Curly on May 11, 2012, 02:37:22 PM
I'd sure like to know how many bulls have been killed off that St Helens Noble Tree Farm in the last couple years, since it's been closed to the public.
What about this idea- maybe the plan was to move Margaret from a quality permit to a regular bull permit this year, then next year move it to the general season. That way the private landowners wouldn't have to deal with damage permit paperwork any longer. Just buy a tag and hunt.
That sounds like a probably scenario.........I wouldn't put it past them. But, wouldn't they lose revenue by eliminating the special permits? I can't see WDFW doing anything that might lose them money. Except maybe it costs them a lot of time and work by having to deal with damage permit paperwork............. :dunno:
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 11, 2012, 05:11:33 PM
And it gets better:
WDFW has created several landowner programs that benefit landowners and hunters alike. The following examples are exceptions with special circumstances and limitations: ◦The landowner hunting permit (LHP) program has been implemented by the Fish and Wildlife Commission (WAC 232-28-295). The program is designed to increase hunter access to private lands and to help landowners address long-standing deer/elk damage issues. LHPs can include permits issued to landowners that allow hunting without a landowner access fee; that allow hunting only if a landowner access fee is paid; or a combination of both. Permit levels, types, and seasons are allocated and approved in advance by the Commission based upon input from the LHP contractors/participants. The approved hunting seasons and regulations may, in some cases, be different than those approved for the hunting public during general seasons.
◦The Fish and Wildlife Commission also has approved damage prevention permits (DPPs) (WAC 232-28-266). DPPs provide landowners with a management tool that utilizes hunters to address property damage. Once issued to a landowner by the Commission, a DPP allows the properly licensed landowner to remove damage-causing deer/elk/turkey, or it allows another licensed hunter to be selected by the landowner to take the animal(s). Landowners and/or hunters may keep harvested wildlife, and landowners may charge and keep access fees in lieu of submitting damage claims to WDFW. The timing of a DPP harvest is not dictated by general hunting seasons, but by the occurrence of depredation.
◦Kill permits are authorized by WAC 232-36-051 under the authority of the WDFW Director. A kill permit may be issued to a landowner and immediate family that have documented deer and elk damage. An animal killed under this authority may be retained by the landowner if authorized by the Director. No licenses or tags are required. Landowners may be allowed to retain the animal in exchange for agreeing to not submit damage claims. The timing of a kill permit is not dictated by general hunting seasons, but by the occurrence of depredation
I need to buy more property in Washington State that borders hunting areas. So in theory, one could get LHP permits, DPP permits and Kill permits. Any the kill permits don't require a license or have a hunting season. Good move on his part with purchasing the property if this was his intent.
The only person that can fill these permits without liscenes and tag is immediate family of the landowners or the landowner them selfs.
Post by: Chesapeake on May 11, 2012, 06:58:19 PM
Were regulating the logging companies out of profitability and there selling off lands because of it. Clear cuts sound pretty good compared to private developments and summer cabins.
Post by: nailbender on May 11, 2012, 07:05:20 PM
I'd sure like to know how many bulls have been killed off that St Helens Noble Tree Farm in the last couple years, since it's been closed to the public.
What about this idea- maybe the plan was to move Margaret from a quality permit to a regular bull permit this year, then next year move it to the general season. That way the private landowners wouldn't have to deal with damage permit paperwork any longer. Just buy a tag and hunt.
:yeah: Kinda makes ya go Hmmm.... doesn't it?
Post by: Legacy on May 12, 2012, 05:31:48 PM
To set the record straight, there are no plans to use this property for a private wildlife management or hunting area, no current plans to get land owner hunting permits, no "extra" monies changed hands or were paid to anyone at the time of acquisition, and the property is being managed for some logging but primarily for the commercial production of noble fir boughs which can only be cut and harvested between mid-September and the first part of December (there are as many as 30 - 40 workers on the site during this 10 week period and for safety reasons, this is why the property is closed to the public during elk hunting seasons). Those wishing to "dig further" can save yourselves a lot of time.
Post by: iRem on May 12, 2012, 08:11:46 PM
Post by: 280ackley on May 12, 2012, 08:24:36 PM
Well he sure screwed up some prime hunting ground to make a buck!!
:stup:
He didn't screw up anything and isn't the only person who owns prime hunting ground in this state or nation.
Post by: 280ackley on May 12, 2012, 08:39:18 PM
Well surely they couldn't have bought the property up there for only the purpose of growing noble fir trees. :dunno:
And then the name "Agnew" seems to be coming up, and I'm sure everyone knows of Dan Agnew, big time elk hunter.
So now the Agnew family ends up with one of the best elk hunting areas in the state?
All that the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation does to protect lands such as this, and they didn't grab this one up? WTH!
Does anyone really think there is a bull up there that Dan Agnew would want??? Also, in the last five years what is the best investment, land or the stock market??? If I had enough money to invest it would have been in land. It is possable you guys are right but I bet I might be closer.
Post by: bobcat on May 12, 2012, 09:23:06 PM
Post by: iRem on May 12, 2012, 09:50:11 PM
Well he sure screwed up some prime hunting ground to make a buck!!
:stup:
He didn't screw up anything and isn't the only person who owns prime hunting ground in this state or nation.
Well, he sure did lock up/maybe not screw up some great hunting property. I'm just saying, I know that area and I know what type of animals can come out of there and to not allow any hunting during the prime time is a shame, just to make a buck! Just saying.....
Post by: Huntbear on May 12, 2012, 09:52:17 PM
I'm a friend of Mr. Agnew and asked him about the gossip and speculation appearing in this thread about the St. Helens Noble Farms acreage.
To set the record straight, there are no plans to use this property for a private wildlife management or hunting area, no current plans to get land owner hunting permits, no "extra" monies changed hands or were paid to anyone at the time of acquisition, and the property is being managed for some logging but primarily for the commercial production of noble fir boughs which can only be cut and harvested between mid-September and the first part of December (there are as many as 30 - 40 workers on the site during this 10 week period and for safety reasons, this is why the property is closed to the public during elk hunting seasons). Those wishing to "dig further" can save yourselves a lot of time.
And that is pure BS to lock hunters out of the best Elk hunting permit area in the Western part of the State... Agnew is a *censored* for this,,,, definitely NOT a sportsman.. just another rich ass that hunts and buys his tags to get what he wants.. IF he was worried about safety.. dress his immigrant workers in BLAZE ORANGE jumpsuits... and if you believe he is not in it for the hunting, get another drink of the Kool Aid he is selling. NO other reason to down grade that unit to a regular bull from quality bull... he wants to be able to sell hunting permits for his little slice of heaven.... OH, and just so you know... I HAVE NO PROBLEM SAYING ANY OF THIS TO HIS FACE! Get him in front of me... his money does not scare me.. .he still puts his pants on just like me.. one leg at a time.
Post by: iRem on May 12, 2012, 10:14:41 PM
And that is pure BS to lock hunters out of the best Elk hunting permit area in the Western part of the State... Agnew is a *censored* for this,,,, definitely NOT a sportsman.. just another rich ass that hunts and buys his tags to get what he wants.. IF he was worried about safety.. dress his immigrant workers in BLAZE ORANGE jumpsuits... and if you believe he is not in it for the hunting, get another drink of the Kool Aid he is selling. NO other reason to down grade that unit to a regular bull from quality bull... he wants to be able to sell hunting permits for his little slice of heaven.... OH, and just so you know... I HAVE NO PROBLEM SAYING ANY OF THIS TO HIS FACE! Get him in front of me... his money does not scare me.. .he still puts his pants on just like me.. one leg at a time.
Now, That's what I'm talking about!!
Post by: Huntbear on May 12, 2012, 10:27:36 PM
Agnew has spent how much money buying Governors tags??????? I am sure he gets whatever the F&%$% he wants with WDFW, they are MONEY WHORES after all and can be bought...
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 13, 2012, 09:37:11 AM
Post by: bucklucky on May 13, 2012, 10:06:52 AM
Post by: Branden on May 13, 2012, 02:10:37 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 13, 2012, 02:33:48 PM
Public access to High Lakes may require major public funding
By Tom Paulu The Daily News Online |
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:00 am
Public access to High Lakes may require major public funding ...A Cowlitz County building moratorium could postpone development of the High Lakes area near Mount St. Helens. Restoring public access to the land, however, would require more than $4 million at a time when public and private foundation budgets are tight.
Members of a task force devoted to keeping the High Lakes available for public recreation discussed the pros and cons of a development moratorium and tossed around ideas for funding during a Wednesday meeting in Longview.
The group’s focus is the area around Elk, Hanaford, Forest and Fawn lakes, which are a few miles north of Spirit Lake Memorial Highway, near the closed Coldwater Ridge Visitor Center.
With its cool lakes, steep ridges and long views, the area has long been treasured for outdoors recreation.
“My very first camping trip was to Forest Lake,” said Darcy Mitchem, a fifth generation Toutle Valley resident. She said she found articles in the Cowlitz County Advocate about stocking the lakes with fish in the 1920s.
“This has been used by the public for nearly 100 years,” Mitchem said.
Most of the region was owned by the Forest Service until around 1990, when Weyerhaeuser Co. acquired it. Weyerhaeuser allowed walk-in access to the trout-stocked lakes through most of the year, and the company opened its gates for hunting season.
In 2007, Weyerhaeuser sold 4,100 acres including the High Lakes to two men from the Tacoma area. The new owners, Kurt Erickson and Fred Wagner, have sold some of the parcels, but most of the land is still on the market.
Jessica Walz, conservation director of the Gifford Pinchot Task Force, said Erickson and Wagner are open to selling the approximately 3,000 acres that remain to a non-profit organization or governmental agency.
“We just have to get the money,” Walz said. The owners’ asking price is $8 million, Walz said, or $4.6 million for a conservation easement that would guarantee public access.
The Task Force continues to apply for grants to buy the land, Walz said. “It’s very difficult,” she said.
Several people at the meeting suggested asking the Forest Service to buy the High Lakes — as long as the agency didn’t require people to stay on a few trails as it does in the Spirit Lake basin.
Cowlitz County Commissioner Axel Swanson suggested people lobby the Mount St. Helens advisory committee, which has come up with a draft plan for future volcano management, to include the High Lakes in that plan.
Most of the High Lakes is in Skamania County, which has a building moratorium on the land. Skamania County plans to zone the area for commercial forestry, which wouldn’t allow construction of residences.
The GP Task Force is urging Cowlitz County commissioners to adopt a building moratorium for its part of the High Lakes, which includes Fawn Lake.
Cowlitz County Commissioners will meet at Toutle-Lake High School to seek public comment on the merits of a building moratorium at 7 p.m. March 31.
Swanson said the High Lakes have become a “lightning rod issue” in the moratorium debate. However, a moratorium would likely cover any part of the county that’s outside a fire district, not just the High Lakes, Swanson said.
“Moratorium is a word that scares a lot of people and makes a lot of people angry,” he said. It would prevent people from building on land, but not from selling it, he said.
Building moratoriums elsewhere have been challenged in lawsuits, Walz said, though a county can defend itself by showing that it’s working on a permanent land-use plan for the area in question.
Swanson said Cowlitz County is interviewing candidates for the position of planner, and it would be that person’s responsibility to update the county’s comprehensive plan. But the current budget crunch could hinder that hiring.
Walz said the county needs to have rules in place as private timberland companies sell off more property for residential development.
The High Lakes area is the first big chuck of timber land sold for residential use by Weyerhaeuser, Walz said. “It will not be the last.”
Read more: http://tdn.com/lifestyles/public-access-to-high-lakes-may-require-major-public-funding/article_15302e79-0262-5131-812a-6d5ba929a2d3.html#ixzz1umttpdSX
Post by: Huntbear on May 13, 2012, 03:57:02 PM
Just curious, is it the property that was bought that is such great hunting? Is it private blocking public land? Is public landlocked so there is no access at all?
It is both... as part of the sale Weyco dug a 30 ft.deep hole to block acess to Miners creek... and yes the high lakes are the ultimate elk hunting area.
Post by: kentrek on May 13, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
but they can afford the new "x" dallor observatory building ?(thats not even for the public)
i love how our state allocates money..
Post by: Branden on May 13, 2012, 05:11:32 PM
It is both... as part of the sale Weyco dug a 30 ft.deep hole to block acess to Miners creek... and yes the high lakes are the ultimate elk hunting area.
So you are saying that those 4000 acres hold all the bulls in the Margret unit? And that Weyco does not allow even foot traffic to miners creek?
Post by: Huntbear on May 13, 2012, 06:15:43 PM
It is both... as part of the sale Weyco dug a 30 ft.deep hole to block acess to Miners creek... and yes the high lakes are the ultimate elk hunting area.
So you are saying that those 4000 acres hold all the bulls in the Margret unit? And that Weyco does not allow even foot traffic to miners creek?
Never said that.. there is still HIKE IN access to other parts of the Margaret... IF you know where to go. A guy fell off a bluff on one trail and died last year, going in from a different angle...
On the West & South end of the unit, those roads hold ALL the access... and you can walk thru that and hike back in there, but.. you are parked on Weyco land, so you have to be out and thru the gate 1 hr. after dark. If you want to hunt till dusk, from where the road is ditched, there is NO way to make it safely.. I guess if you wanted to drive like Dukes of Hazzard in your 4x4, yea you might make it. Otherwise expect a trespass ticket from security and the local sheriff...
Everything from where that ditched road is, back to to the Winston unit, which is where that road goes thru and ends up at the 500 gate, is REPROD so thick you need a spear to hunt it, not a gun... Weyerhauser did a number on the near end of the unit, with their logging and replanting.
Post by: HntnFsh on May 13, 2012, 06:18:10 PM
This state dropped the ball big time when this land was up for sale.They had many millions of dollars in a fund to purchase just this typw of property.
Post by: Huntbear on May 13, 2012, 07:51:09 PM
I believe that 12,000 acres are now privately owned up there. I recently talked to a guy that works up there and he told me they took 5 million pounds of noble fir bows out of there last year. Have you seen what noble fir bows go for. Its big bucks.
This state dropped the ball big time when this land was up for sale.They had many millions of dollars in a fund to purchase just this typw of property.
The RMEF knew about this sale... I emailed them about it, got an email back saying they were working with all parties involved. Next thing I hear, the sale went through, RMEF did nothing, because it is Roosie elk? or because Agnew and friends donated a chit pot load of money to them to keep them out of the game, since RMEF is a money whore as well... they buy land they figure will give them the most press.. .make it hunting land for rich people, and then applaud how they saved all this critical habitat.... I quit them years ago for just that attitude...
Post by: Bluesdude on May 14, 2012, 12:59:28 PM
And, just so we are clear...
Agnew has spent how much money buying Governors tags??????? I am sure he gets whatever the F&%$% he wants with WDFW, they are MONEY WHORES after all and can be bought...
Huntbear, I think you are confusing Dan Agnew from Vancouver and Sam Agnew from Centralia, who owns the Noble Tree Farm. Dan is the guy who has purchased the elk tags you refer to. I'm not saying Sam and Dan aren't related, they very well could be, but they are two different people.
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 14, 2012, 04:17:19 PM
Post by: mpetersen on May 14, 2012, 06:36:04 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 14, 2012, 06:43:10 PM
And, just so we are clear...
Agnew has spent how much money buying Governors tags??????? I am sure he gets whatever the F&%$% he wants with WDFW, they are MONEY WHORES after all and can be bought...
Huntbear, I think you are confusing Dan Agnew from Vancouver and Sam Agnew from Centralia, who owns the Noble Tree Farm. Dan is the guy who has purchased the elk tags you refer to. I'm not saying Sam and Dan aren't related, they very well could be, but they are two different people.
IF they are different people and different money then I apologize....
HOWEVER money is money..... *censored* is *censored*... and this whole mess smells like a skunk just walked in the door of the Margaret unit and started spraying every hunter it could find...
No way this whole thing happens unless the state got a whole lot of "look the other way while elk hunters are screwed" money...
Post by: madmack76 on May 14, 2012, 06:54:43 PM
Post by: Branden on May 14, 2012, 07:45:06 PM
this thread is as stupid as a womens soap opera
:tup: :tup:
A lot of complaining and speculation
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 14, 2012, 08:15:27 PM
Post by: Branden on May 14, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
52 posts and your already an authority if you don;t like the post hop on another. For me I have put in for margret for 13 years so when they change things I want to know why. If you don;t want margret try doe deer or something you probley have more knowledge of and for another Huntbear has lived and hunted around that area a lot and knows a lot of people around there and they all feel something is not right. Tell me how many years you have put in and waited to draw a quality tag then get it dropped.
Lol because the number of posts a person has means you do/don't know what you are talking about? This whole thread is speculation and conspiracy theory. Not one person has reported seeing any elk come off the private in the back of a pickup or anything like that.
I see a lot of complaining that rmef did nothing. That Agnew is going to turn this into his private hunting resort. You think a guy that can afford to spend 100k a year on elk tags bought a couple thousand acres to shoot little bulls? Oh I forgot, its not the same Agnew that bought it. My bad ;)
Yea it sucks that wdfw changed it to a regular bull hunt after having it in the quality category for 2 years. But it also sucked when they put all the yakima units in the bull category. There were over 5k hunters that applied for peaches rifle last year. The odds to draw in this state suck, and always will until hunters demand a change to the current system.
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 08:44:03 AM
It has been rumored since DAY 1 that the plan of the new property owners was to build a lodge on the high lakes and make it a pay to hunt area...
If you know this Agnew (and either one has the money to bribe and buy the WDFW for what they want), or have privy information with the WDFW , bring them on here, let them put it in writing that they have no plans to do this, that it is just for the noble boughs.... and let them face the hunters they are SCREWING AGAIN.
If you do not like reading this thread because those of us that actually put in for this Unit, and hunt the area year in and year out are speaking our minds... do not click on it... I will not stop posting how I feel because you think it is not worth your time. :rolleyes: Been on this forum way to long and been hunting way to long to stop expressing how I feel about things...
Del, you and I are in the same boat... and yes, I think we should DEMAND answers.. we pay good money for licenses and tags and these *censored*ES in Olympia to keep f&cking us in the ass.....
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 09:16:19 AM
Branden
It has been rumored since DAY 1 that the plan of the new property owners was to build a lodge on the high lakes and make it a pay to hunt area...
If you know this Agnew (and either one has the money to bribe and buy the WDFW for what they want), or have privy information with the WDFW , bring them on here, let them put it in writing that they have no plans to do this, that it is just for the noble boughs.... and let them face the hunters they are SCREWING AGAIN.
"It has been rumored" "They are screwing us again" More speculation and conspiracy theory. How is Agnew screwing hunters by buying Private Property? Please answer this question.
Does anyone even know if Sam Agnew hunts? He might just be an investor that saw an opportunity to make even more money. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? There is no evidence whatsoever to any of the speculation in this thread, yet guys are roasting him over the coals because what? Oh yea he bought a farm and doesn't want public on it.
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 15, 2012, 09:21:57 AM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 09:51:39 AM
You obviously do not care about the state letting our prime hunting lands be sold and access denied to OUR WILDLIFE.
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 10:03:07 AM
Post by: CastleRocker on May 15, 2012, 10:36:37 AM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
Guess I'll have to read this thread from the start, but did Cabela's sell all the rest of this property? I personally know two of the land owners very well, and both had been approached by Cabela's to put small cabins on their property for clients during elk season. I'm going to read the whole thread before I jump up on my soap box though.
Interesting CastleRocker.... Kind of hard to have clients elk hunting in a draw only unit, don't you think????
Post by: kentrek on May 15, 2012, 10:46:58 AM
obvously we all are going to hate the dude that bought our stomping grounds(didnt think there would be a price on a place like the highlakes..) but realy there are very few hunters who if had lots of $$$$ who wouldnt dream of owning a place like that..but owning high country land should always have remaned a dream and it should have been made into some type of public land. its the states fault for haveing there head up there azz.
i hope that this privitization is a short time thing.peaple need to remember land is finite.you cant put a price on public country..the indians new this centuries ago
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 11:42:23 AM
Thanks for the reply to my question ;)
In response to your question..
NO, do not know if this Agnew guy hunts, fishes or plays checkers with old men on the courthouse square.. .do not care..
All I care about is the fact that there is that much PRIME hunting land, that hunters are denied access to by someone... and the WDFW allowed it. The only way both WDFW and the RMEF bowed out is because someone greased some palms with some good old fashioned green....
And that is the reason the WDFW is taking this unit to a regular old general season tag .... to screw the hunters and give some rich ass people what they want... sorry if you can not see it that way... hell maybe you are part of the rich people that feel they deserve to hunt where others should not be allowed... not sure, do not know you... However, the hunters in the state keep getting screwed in the ass, but we are expected to continue to fund the same agency that is shoving the dry corn cob where the sun does not shine, if we working class people still want to hunt....
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 11:55:24 AM
In response to your question..
NO, do not know if this Agnew guy hunts, fishes or plays checkers with old men on the courthouse square.. .do not care..
All I care about is the fact that there is that much PRIME hunting land, that hunters are denied access to by someone... and the WDFW allowed it. The only way both WDFW and the RMEF bowed out is because someone greased some palms with some good old fashioned green....
First you were bashing the wdfw/rmef. Then when bobcat brought up Agnews name you started bashing him. Now its back to the wdfw/rmef. Wonder how many posts and it will be Agnews fault again?
Do you have proof/evidence money changed hands? Just more speculation. Also, in reading the regs margret still looks like it is a draw to me. Not otc. So I would not call that a general tag.
Post by: kentrek on May 15, 2012, 12:06:18 PM
In response to your question..
NO, do not know if this Agnew guy hunts, fishes or plays checkers with old men on the courthouse square.. .do not care..
All I care about is the fact that there is that much PRIME hunting land, that hunters are denied access to by someone... and the WDFW allowed it. The only way both WDFW and the RMEF bowed out is because someone greased some palms with some good old fashioned green....
First you were bashing the wdfw/rmef. Then when bobcat brought up Agnews name you started bashing him. Now its back to the wdfw/rmef. Wonder how many posts and it will be Agnews fault again?
Do you have proof/evidence money changed hands? Just more speculation. Also, in reading the regs margret still looks like it is a draw to me. Not otc. So I would not call that a general tag.
the point is wdfw shouldnt have let agnew buy the land
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 12:20:36 PM
In response to your question..
NO, do not know if this Agnew guy hunts, fishes or plays checkers with old men on the courthouse square.. .do not care..
All I care about is the fact that there is that much PRIME hunting land, that hunters are denied access to by someone... and the WDFW allowed it. The only way both WDFW and the RMEF bowed out is because someone greased some palms with some good old fashioned green....
First you were bashing the wdfw/rmef. Then when bobcat brought up Agnews name you started bashing him. Now its back to the wdfw/rmef. Wonder how many posts and it will be Agnews fault again?
Do you have proof/evidence money changed hands? Just more speculation. Also, in reading the regs margret still looks like it is a draw to me. Not otc. So I would not call that a general tag.
No proof....
HOWEVER... the WDFW and the RMEF both let the Best elk hunting area in SW Washington state be bought up and COMPLETELY CLOSED OFF TO HUNTERS by this guy... I am not switching back and forth at all... I am bashing them equally... Every last one of the parties involved needs to be taken behind the woodshed...
Bough cutters are at risk? This is nothing more than a ploy.. Bough cutters are in the Nat'l. Forest every year during elk season.. I can not remember any being shot by being mistaken for an elk or a deer.. If they are worried put them in blaze orange jump suits...
Bottom line, this is all about getting that area turned into a rich person's personal playground, and they do not care who gets screwed in the process... and the WDFW has turned a blind eye? Not hard to read between the lines here.. Of course that is if you really care about that area..... and have even been back into those high lakes.. I have been up there many times... my cousin was part of the crew that built that Highway up to the observatory..
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 15, 2012, 12:25:03 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 15, 2012, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 12:35:21 PM
So from reading through the thread, this Agnew character bought land that was already private. Some guys before him bought it from DNR and transformed it from public to private. Those guys allowed public hunting on private land for X number of years. Now a new landowner (Agnew) is no longer allowing public access. Am I off?
You are basically correct. This was Weyco land... This is land that is right along the edge of the National Monument and Blast Zone.. it is gorgeous country, fantastic views of Mt. St. Helens. It is also some of the best elk hunting on the Wetside you could ever ask for... as well as the previously mentioned high country blacktail, blackbear and cougar.
As part of the conditions of sale.. Weyerhauser also was required to ditch the main line (this is a 30 ft. hole about 100 ft. across) through the unit before Miners Creek... to stop access behind the property as well, where there are other high lakes and bowls ... that fill up with elk...
It is funny they talk about the danger to the bough cutters.. there are only 50 total tags for Modern Rifle in the unit... it is not like the zoo in the Winston, and the bough cutters work there right through the hunting season.
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 12:59:18 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 01:26:27 PM
Now, as far as how I use my time? I do volunteer a lot of my time. I wish I could afford to start my own non profit to buy back those lands, and others.. being a working stiff, does not allow for much free money...
Oh. trust me, I do not just bash on a message board. The Director, the commissioners and the Region 5 office of the WDFW, as well as the RMEF foundation have heard from me over the last few weeks on this topic and others.. multiple times. I send out my emails with a read receipt, so I know someone has opened it and read it. I will also be bringing this topic of the Margaret unit up with the WFW, to see if we can throw some weight behind the words..
However, I will never stand by and not say anything about hunting land being taken from us.... either by the government or by the rich and wanna be powerful that want their own private playground.
This all reminds me of the Million Mom March on Washington DC a few years ago.. all about gun control.... the next week, the big name organizer of the event (one Rosie O'donnel) was shown that her bodyguards had applied for concealed weapons permits in several states... Guess gun control did not apply to her, since she has money....
That is the attitude that pisses me off so much...
And, I have a solution... since the wildlife on that land belongs to the taxpayers, and the property owners will not allow access by the public... tax the *censored* out of them for every deer, bear, cougar, elk, ground squirrel, chipmunk, rabbit, porcupine and skunk, etc... that resides there... the animals do after all belong to US, not the property owners.
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 01:32:05 PM
It honestly sounds like you are just mad because some guy that has more money then you bought some private property and closed it. Thank god we still have property rights, and can allow who we want on the property that we own.
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 01:46:14 PM
I have hunted this area for over 35 years... I was hunting elk around Mt. St. Helens before the it blew up.... I hunted the first year we could get back in there, when there was the "red zone" that we could not enter... So yes, I have a vested interest in this area and the wildlife that I grew up hunting....
That land should no more be taken away from hunters than the air we breath...
Mad at him? YES
Madder than hell at the WDFW... HELL YEA... There is no way in hell this area should have been allowed to be bought by private individuals, and closed off ..... They should be horse whipped publicly for this.... imagine someone allowed to buy thousands of acres in the Colockum... and shut off all access.....
Sick of the games by the Department of watchable wildlife.. completely...
If you had ever hunted up there, or even hiked that country you would understand... obviously you have not done so... I hiked that whole area over the years..... it is amazing country that now YOUR KIDS and others will never see or be able to hunt...
unless of course this Agnew guy is your buddy, and you have access that no one else now has.....
And again.. just to be clear... if he was standing right in front of me with the Director and Commissioners of the WDFW, they would be told right to their faces what I think of them about this...
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 15, 2012, 02:06:22 PM
Post by: Branden on May 15, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
Yes I hunt. Sorry but I would rather not say where I hunt on a public forum. If I get a spring bear I will post a pic just for you. Nodak is short for North Dakota. I work 2 weeks in North Dakota, and fly home to Washington on my off week. Repeat 2 weeks on, 1 week off.
Serious question. There is no way to access the public property? It is land locked? My maps don't show the private/public very well.
Post by: buckhorn2 on May 15, 2012, 02:26:08 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
I know a wounded vet, that was all jacked up to get a chance to draw that unit he had hunted one other time as a teenager... Not anymore, there is no handicapped access or access at all for anyone that is not 25-30 years old and willing to hike 5-10 miles in and out every day .... on trails with sheer bluffs, and the possibility of ice and snow trapping you in there...
YOUR RIGHT Branden... should just say OH WELL.... go find some other unit to hunt for quality Rosie bull elk.... ignore the fact the WDFW and the rich property owners are most likely in cahoots and screwing us....
I hope you never have it happen to your favorite hunting/hiking grounds...
Then again, you never do answer me.. maybe you are part of the rich group .... thinking hunting should be a rich man's game, less crowds, no working class riff raff to be in the way of your hunts..... or maybe Agnews best bud???? So you have access???
Or ?????
And hunting should be a RIGHT in this state.. not a privilege that can be suspended without cause by whomever for whatever.......
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 15, 2012, 02:52:58 PM
Post by: rosies or bust on May 15, 2012, 03:34:07 PM
I have recreated and hunted this area for nearly 40 yrs. I hold the USFS AND Weyco accountable for this travesty played on the hunters and recreationalists of this state. As a young kid, my parents took me on campouts and fishing trips to this wonderful area. I will never get that opportunity to do the same for my family. Yes there are nice bulls in that area. I have 14 pts and hope to draw a m/l permit for the Margaret this year. If I draw, you DAMNED bet I will do WHATEVER it takes to hunt where I want. Branden, please take the time to do a little research before you start spewing your rhetoric.
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 03:49:48 PM
Branden, you are not getting the full story. Most of the land in question was originally Forest Service land. After St Helens blew, Weyerhaeuser logged all the blown timber from their lands near the mountain. The USFS and Weyco then did a land swap. The Weyco lands became the Volcanic Monument and the USFS 'High Lakes' became a part of Weyco vast holdings. Weyerhaeuser made $ out BIG TIME!! Harvest $ and real estate $. On good authority, Weyco offered several prime lots to their executive board members, long before it was ever offered on the open market.
I have recreated and hunted this area for nearly 40 yrs. I hold the USFS AND Weyco accountable for this travesty played on the hunters and recreationalists of this state. As a young kid, my parents took me on campouts and fishing trips to this wonderful area. I will never get that opportunity to do the same for my family. Yes there are nice bulls in that area. I have 14 pts and hope to draw a m/l permit for the Margaret this year. If I draw, you DAMNED bet I will do WHATEVER it takes to hunt where I want. Branden, please take the time to do a little research before you start spewing your rhetoric.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: iRem on May 15, 2012, 05:07:57 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 05:23:55 PM
I'm a friend of Mr. Agnew and asked him about the gossip and speculation appearing in this thread about the St. Helens Noble Farms acreage.
To set the record straight, there are no plans to use this property for a private wildlife management or hunting area, no current plans to get land owner hunting permits, no "extra" monies changed hands or were paid to anyone at the time of acquisition, and the property is being managed for some logging but primarily for the commercial production of noble fir boughs which can only be cut and harvested between mid-September and the first part of December (there are as many as 30 - 40 workers on the site during this 10 week period and for safety reasons, this is why the property is closed to the public during elk hunting seasons). Those wishing to "dig further" can save yourselves a lot of time.
Well maybe you can ask Mr. Agnew... why do hundreds of bough cutters work in the National Forest during the same time... NONE of them get shot at... There are only 50 rifle hunters in the Margaret Unit.. the rest are Archery or Muzzy guys.... Not like the zoo that is the Winston or the Lewis units, to name 2.... So that dog does not hunt... just more smoke & mirrors.
If there is a safety concern, Blaze Orange jumpsuits do wonders... just ask WDFW about the Blaze Orange requirment...
Also, there are rumors of cabins and a lodge in the plans. Surely that is just to house the workers right?????
Until Mr. Agnew is willing to open this land up for public use again, he surely must know, he will be nothing but vilified in SW Washington and by every Elk, Deer and Bear hunter that ever used that area or wanted to use that area.... My nieces and nephews will never get to hike into that country like I did many many times..
OH, and just so you can tell him this too... the digging has already begun... to many ticked off hunters want answers they are not getting from the Department of Watchable Wildlife and Money Whores.. I am beginning to wonder what an investigative reporter with the right connections could turn up? Might have to call in a couple of favors.
If he really thinks we hunters will believe a crock of *censored* like what you have passed on to us.... he really needs some help. There is no other reason to buy the single best elk hunting area in Western Washington for trophy elk, or high country blacktail, or big blackbear, then lock all the hunters out.
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 05:37:35 PM
I wonder how long it would take to turn the area into a WILDERNESS AREA.... It is critical elk habitat, and is part of the blast zone from the eruption in 1980. That would kill any building in that area.. keep any cabins or lodges from being built..
Hmmmmmmmm.... just tossing ideas around as I sit and think on this.......
I wonder how Mr. Agnew would like the tree huggers turned loose on him??
Strange bedfellows, agreed... but, to a common goal????? why not???
If we hunters are gonna lose it all, why not anyone that owns the land as well.
Post by: rosies or bust on May 15, 2012, 05:47:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 15, 2012, 05:50:01 PM
http://tdn.com/business/local/article_2230a6a6-8b84-5525-88bc-6b152fad5938.html
Mount St. Helens panel to recommend High Lakes land swap, Forest Service management
By Barbara LaBoe
Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:00 am
Mount St. Helens should not be a national park but it does need more money, access and accommodations, an advisory committee decided Thursday. Public access to the nearby High Lakes area also should be ensured, committee members agreed.
It’s unclear how many of the goals will be realized — and there are some dissenting opinions attached to the report. But Congressional Mount St. Helens Advisory Committee members said they are pleased with their 15-month effort.
Many of the proposals are expensive. Committee members acknowledged that but said their task was to envision the future of the area, not how to pay for each item.
Cowlitz County Commissioner Axel Swanson said he believes the discussion has energized the Forest Service, which manages the volcano area, and will lead to administrative changes that require no money.
The report will be presented to the area’s federal lawmakers in August. The committee was created to tap local suggestions about the future of the volcano and the 110,000-acre Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument.
Members hashed out proposed recommendations in February and made mostly minor adjustments Thursday.
Efforts to make the volcano a national park once again failed to gain support.
Committee members Mark Smith and Mark Plotkin argued against the recommendation for continued Forest Service management. Smith said the committee hadn’t done a through enough analysis of what a national park would entail. He said the decision should be left to Congress.
“I have a really hard time supporting this remaining in the Forest Service based on the lack of performance for the past 28 years,” Mark Smith said. He owns the Eco Park Resort near the volcano.
Plotkin, director of the Cowlitz County Tourism Bureau, argued a National Park would increase tourism and that most of committee’s other recommendations are things the Park Service already does.
The Gifford Pinchot Task Force environmental group solicited hundreds of postcards supporting National Park status and the National Parks Conservation Association advocacy group also coordinated at least 600 pro-park e-mails to committee members.
At the public hearings in Kelso and Camas, though, there was strong support for continued Forest Service management as long as federal funding is increased.
Skamania County Commissioner Paul Pearce — one of three committee co-chairs — said he gave more weight to the people who turned out to the meetings or wrote their own letters.
“If there was this overwhelming push locally, from Portland to Seattle, to make it a park then what happened?” Pearce asked. “They didn’t show up (at the meetings).”
Mark Smith argued that local comment was important, but the area is a national concern as well.
“The monument is everybody’s monument,” he said. “It’s funded and paid for out of tax dollars and every tax payer should have a say.” He plans to submit a dissenting opinion on the issue.
Sean Smith, an official with the of the parks group that pushed for the change, said he doesn’t think the national park discussion is over and still believes it’s the best answer for the area.
“This isn’t an end, it’s a start,” he said. “The public, the Forest Service and Congress are going to continue to watch this.”
The one area added to the recommendations was protecting public access to the High Lakes area on the Cowlitz-Skamania county line. The privately owned land is for sale. Strong public comment at the two hearings convinced members to add it into the recommendations.
Committee members said they favor a land swap by the Forest Service to obtain the land. It’s also possible a private trust could purchase the lands, but committee members want the Forest Service specifically directed to work on the goal.
The committee also recommended creating several task forces or committees to address marketing, scientific research and to create more recreation within areas currently restricted to research.
All of the recommendations, including rankings by priority within subcategories and pros and cons, will be posted on the committee’s Web page: http://www.skamaniacounty.org/SHAC.htm
Recommendations
These are some of the major recommendations or themes for Mount St. Helens by the congressional advisory committee:
Management
Have the U.S. Forest Service create a stand-alone administrative entity that includes the volcanic monument and some adjacent forest land; give the area increased and dedicated funding and have the manager report directly to the regional forester.
Roads/Access
Extend State Route 504 to U.S. Highway 12; create a State Route 503 loop from Cougar to Carson; upgrade Forest Service Road 25. Roads would not be plowed in winter.
Recreation/Tourism
Increase recreational activities in areas currently restricted to science — such as Spirit Lake; convert the shuttered Coldwater Ridge Visitor Center into an overnight venue and develop destination resorts in or near the monument.
High Lakes
The Forest Service should acquire the High Lakes region through land swaps of other Gifford Pinchot National Forest lands to ensure the area remains open to the public.
Conservation
No new roads in the monument (the roads proposed are outside the monument boundary but within the new administrative unit the committee wants created).
Post by: 280ackley on May 15, 2012, 05:51:00 PM
Quote
the point is wdfw shouldnt have let agnew buy the land
That's a scary thought, putting the WDFW as the ones who decides weather or not privet property is sold to another privet owner.
Also, I can't believe that I ask privet landowners on both west and east side for permission to hunt there land. After all, what i want to hunt is a public resource.
Post by: Huntbear on May 15, 2012, 05:56:02 PM
Huntbear, tried to send PM. Your box is full
Try again... just cleaned out some old messages
Post by: 280ackley on May 15, 2012, 06:00:38 PM
You know.. just had a thought...
I wonder how long it would take to turn the area into a WILDERNESS AREA.... It is critical elk habitat, and is part of the blast zone from the eruption in 1980. That would kill any building in that area.. keep any cabins or lodges from being built..
Hmmmmmmmm.... just tossing ideas around as I sit and think on this.......
I wonder how Mr. Agnew would like the tree huggers turned loose on him??
Strange bedfellows, agreed... but, to a common goal????? why not???
If we hunters are gonna lose it all, why not anyone that owns the land as well.
Be carefull what you wish for. As Bobcats artical states there is a big push for PARK status.
Post by: 280ackley on May 15, 2012, 06:05:15 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 16, 2012, 09:12:16 AM
You know.. just had a thought...
I wonder how long it would take to turn the area into a WILDERNESS AREA.... It is critical elk habitat, and is part of the blast zone from the eruption in 1980. That would kill any building in that area.. keep any cabins or lodges from being built..
Hmmmmmmmm.... just tossing ideas around as I sit and think on this.......
I wonder how Mr. Agnew would like the tree huggers turned loose on him??
Strange bedfellows, agreed... but, to a common goal????? why not???
If we hunters are gonna lose it all, why not anyone that owns the land as well.
Be carefull what you wish for. As Bobcats artical states there is a big push for PARK status.
The park status was and is something the FS screwed up on and did not pass...
I am thinking more Wilderness Area designation.. stops all building, all logging and bough cutting.. but hunters and fishermen and campers and hikers still have access....
Post by: mpetersen on May 16, 2012, 09:29:43 AM
Post by: Branden on May 16, 2012, 09:38:30 AM
thanks. Not talking about any permits he or his buddys can hunt it with a depredation tag if and when an elk eats a nobel fir or does any damage to said property and in some cases does not have to turn in harvest reports or anything to the department. Not saying this will happen but some people are worried that it could. Hope you get a bear looks like there moving around now.
When I said permits, I meant building permits to see if they were planning on building a structure up there.
Branden, you are not getting the full story. Most of the land in question was originally Forest Service land. After St Helens blew, Weyerhaeuser logged all the blown timber from their lands near the mountain. The USFS and Weyco then did a land swap. The Weyco lands became the Volcanic Monument and the USFS 'High Lakes' became a part of Weyco vast holdings. Weyerhaeuser made $ out BIG TIME!! Harvest $ and real estate $. On good authority, Weyco offered several prime lots to their executive board members, long before it was ever offered on the open market.
I have recreated and hunted this area for nearly 40 yrs. I hold the USFS AND Weyco accountable for this travesty played on the hunters and recreationalists of this state. As a young kid, my parents took me on campouts and fishing trips to this wonderful area. I will never get that opportunity to do the same for my family. Yes there are nice bulls in that area. I have 14 pts and hope to draw a m/l permit for the Margaret this year. If I draw, you DAMNED bet I will do WHATEVER it takes to hunt where I want. Branden, please take the time to do a little research before you start spewing your rhetoric.
Rhetoric as in the sky is falling its a private hunting resort bs? Sounds like weyco made out great because the forest service wanted to preserve what they thought was important. Its hard to blame an entity that is in the business of making money, not to make that swap if it is going to make them more money.
Also, I can't believe that I ask privet landowners on both west and east side for permission to hunt there land. After all, what i want to hunt is a public resource.
Are you asking them for permission to hunt? Or are you asking for access to private land? That they maintain, pay taxes on, pay insurance on, paid and worked for? The wdfw grants you a hunting license that allows you to hunt. The landowner allows access to his own personal property.
Post by: 280ackley on May 16, 2012, 08:32:57 PM
Quote
Also, I can't believe that I ask privet landowners on both west and east side for permission to hunt there land. After all, what i want to hunt is a public resource.
Are you asking them for permission to hunt? Or are you asking for access to private land? That they maintain, pay taxes on, pay insurance on, paid and worked for? The wdfw grants you a hunting license that allows you to hunt. The landowner allows access to his own personal property.
I was being sarcastic. It was in responce to people complaning about the current owners not giving access to there land to hunt elk.
Post by: bullcanyon on May 18, 2012, 10:31:52 AM
Post by: skidynastar33 on July 07, 2012, 07:03:25 AM
Post by: fireweed on September 25, 2012, 09:34:26 AM
Recommendation 4: We recommend through a land trade on GPNF the USFS acquire the High Lakes Area from willing sellers.
Recommendation Status
The acquisition of the High Lake Area on the northwest side of the Monument boundary would provide greater recreational activities, including a site for a potential campground within 30 minutes of the Johnston Ridge Observatory.73
The Gifford Pinchot National Forest submitted a Land and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF) proposal for acquisition of 2,000 acres to provide public and administrative access to four lakes and to the west side of the Mount Margaret backcountry. The LWCF program provides governments with matching grants for the acquisition of public outdoor recreation areas.74 The proposal was submitted to the Forest Service regional process, but it has not been forwarded to the national office because of other competitive LWCF projects that better fit the national criteria.75 It is unclear at this time what additional steps the GPNF will take to acquire the land.
Some progress made in acquiring High Lakes Area.
(P.S. USFS again submitting for LWCF for purchase of High Lakes this year, but funding unlikely.)
Post by: elk247 on March 20, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
Post by: kalamasasquatch on March 27, 2013, 07:47:12 PM
I believe anybody can look and see if any permits have been pulled for that area to build a house, lodge, ranch, etc. Big money isn't taking away hunters rights. That is private property. Hunters have been allowed to hunt on it it the past. Not anymore. It was a privilege, not a right.
Yes I hunt. Sorry but I would rather not say where I hunt on a public forum. If I get a spring bear I will post a pic just for you. Nodak is short for North Dakota. I work 2 weeks in North Dakota, and fly home to Washington on my off week. Repeat 2 weeks on, 1 week off.
Serious question. There is no way to access the public property? It is land locked? My maps don't show the private/public very well.
The only "FACT" I do know is that the current land owner has built up there WITHOUT permits. I know this because I personally know the building permit cordinator for the county. He had to hike into the site and post a cease and desist notice on it. As for my feelings on the subject....... I spent 20 years roaming that country and its part of my being.
Post by: Bluesdude on March 28, 2013, 07:57:49 AM
I believe anybody can look and see if any permits have been pulled for that area to build a house, lodge, ranch, etc. Big money isn't taking away hunters rights. That is private property. Hunters have been allowed to hunt on it it the past. Not anymore. It was a privilege, not a right.
Yes I hunt. Sorry but I would rather not say where I hunt on a public forum. If I get a spring bear I will post a pic just for you. Nodak is short for North Dakota. I work 2 weeks in North Dakota, and fly home to Washington on my off week. Repeat 2 weeks on, 1 week off.
Serious question. There is no way to access the public property? It is land locked? My maps don't show the private/public very well.
The only "FACT" I do know is that the current land owner has built up there WITHOUT permits. I know this because I personally know the building permit coordinator for the county. He had to hike into the site and post a cease and desist notice on it. As for my feelings on the subject....... I spent 20 years roaming that country and its part of my being.
I heard that Rumour also. I just looked on Google Earth, which was updated in August 2012. There appears to be some construction activity just south of Fawn Lake, at 46 19 06.6 N and 122 15 23.06 W. Couldn't find anything else but I didn't scour every inch of aerials.
Post by: Greg Mullins on March 30, 2013, 10:20:52 PM
Post by: fireweed on April 11, 2013, 08:28:39 AM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on August 19, 2015, 09:50:47 PM
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Post by: Annette on August 19, 2015, 10:36:47 PM
Sorry man, there's no such thing as Cascade Roosevelt's, It was a term coined for a book that would hold bulls that wouldn't make the true record books...But they are not true Roosies by P & Y or B & C boundries.
They are considered Cascade Roosies... But still, you get into some of that backcountry, there are some monsters... I have personally seen a 9x7 that I am sure would have gone 1000 + lbs. His legs looked really short, because he was so thick from front to back...
Post by: chester on August 19, 2015, 11:42:57 PM
Ouch, that was cold, absolutely correct but cold.Sorry man, there's no such thing as Cascade Roosevelt's, It was a term coined for a book that would hold bulls that wouldn't make the true record books...But they are not true Roosies by P & Y or B & C boundries.
They are considered Cascade Roosies... But still, you get into some of that backcountry, there are some monsters... I have personally seen a 9x7 that I am sure would have gone 1000 + lbs. His legs looked really short, because he was so thick from front to back...
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Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on August 20, 2015, 06:23:55 AM
Post by: mpetersen on August 23, 2015, 02:57:30 PM