Post by: Turner89 on May 19, 2012, 10:28:07 PM
Just wandering if anyone has much more than that. I hope not :chuckle:
Post by: HornHoarder on May 19, 2012, 10:32:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2012, 10:32:37 PM
I only have 15 for sheep because I didn't apply this year.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on May 19, 2012, 10:34:46 PM
Post by: Turner89 on May 19, 2012, 10:45:20 PM
Plenty of people with a lot more then you :chuckle: It all comes down to luck of the draw. I know people that have drawn a oil with 1 point and others that have been putting in for it since it started and not drawn a tag. It's a luck thing.Thats what I was afraid of :chuckle: Im feeling lucky 8)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on May 19, 2012, 10:47:35 PM
Post by: Turner89 on May 19, 2012, 10:52:36 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on May 19, 2012, 11:40:30 PM
Post by: Turner89 on May 19, 2012, 11:49:55 PM
I'm gonna draw a Moose Tag this year with 5 points to go along with the Multi Elk and Deer Tag I already drew. :yike: :chuckle:I'll by that! :chuckle:We should also get a few lotto tickets, That way we'll have enough $$ to take the rest of summer off to scout. :chuckle:
Post by: Killmore on May 20, 2012, 08:04:03 AM
Post by: boneaddict on May 20, 2012, 08:53:22 AM
Post by: SI Eagle on May 20, 2012, 08:54:34 AM
Post by: seth30 on May 20, 2012, 09:34:54 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 20, 2012, 09:41:55 AM
How many is max points?
17 after you apply this year.
Post by: seth30 on May 20, 2012, 09:43:22 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 20, 2012, 09:51:18 AM
Wow, 17 years is a long wait.Yes it is, I was 25 when I started this quest for drawing a hard to get elk tag. Now I'm 42 almost 43 with 17 points, when I finnally do draw it- im done with this points game. I will switch to west side archery or muzzy and hunt big bulls every year without waiting for the blessings of the game dept. Yes I know it's my fault for trying to get a premium tag, it just sucks it takes some people soooo long. Maby this is the year!!
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 20, 2012, 09:58:07 AM
Post by: PAW66 on May 20, 2012, 10:06:17 AM
16 for Moose
5 for Elk, was lucky enough to draw an Any Bull tag in 03 and 07
Post by: TheHunt on May 20, 2012, 10:29:13 AM
I still have 17 points for goat and sheep.
Post by: WapitiFreak on May 20, 2012, 10:37:06 AM
Post by: Killmore on May 20, 2012, 11:09:25 AM
Post by: Dr. Death on May 20, 2012, 11:36:59 AM
16 Sheep
15 Goat, did get one in '96 last year prior to making goat a OIL tag.
9 for elk
7 for deer
Been awhile since getting anything....... :bash:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 20, 2012, 12:02:44 PM
i put in for points for the first time this year and it really sucks because by the time i have 15 points there will be a ton of people with 30+ points.Go catch a few poachers and you should pass them up in points in little time!
Post by: mkcj on May 20, 2012, 12:13:28 PM
Post by: 3nails on May 20, 2012, 12:32:15 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 20, 2012, 12:44:40 PM
Is there such a thing as maxing out on the points we acrue?
No.
Post by: furbearer365 on May 20, 2012, 01:51:02 PM
[/quote]
Go catch a few poachers and you should pass them up in points in little time!
[/quote]
Cant use poacher points for oil tags
Post by: mtndew on May 20, 2012, 05:28:49 PM
16 Moose & Sheep
This is my year. I can feel it in my old bones!
Post by: Bob33 on May 20, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
OIL = NIL for the vast majority - Never In a Lifetime. Some will draw, and more points helps but do not get anyone anywhere near to "probable".
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 20, 2012, 06:39:24 PM
Here's a quick cell phone pic I took of it just after he got it back from the taxadermist.
4 points worth of STUD SHEEP! :tup:
I rubbed it, fondled it and groped it for LUCK! I asked to borrow it and just got the side ways glance snake eye. The look like I had already gone to far already.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-14.jpg&hash=372747e8e9075db279b19edcab73b5e492cb9958)
Post by: the509hunter on May 20, 2012, 07:45:13 PM
Post by: PolarBear on May 20, 2012, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: 3nails on May 20, 2012, 08:10:59 PM
Is there such a thing as maxing out on the points we acrue?
No.
Been applying for sheep, moose and goat for 27 years and have max (17) points for all 3 like half of the folks out there. Yes, the system is messed up!Ok, now I'm confused!
Post by: PolarBear on May 20, 2012, 08:20:53 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on May 20, 2012, 08:24:31 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 20, 2012, 08:27:56 PM
Post by: PolarBear on May 20, 2012, 08:28:31 PM
Post by: Dan-o on May 20, 2012, 08:45:38 PM
Some day.....
Post by: 3nails on May 20, 2012, 09:20:16 PM
What is confusing? 17 years ago they started the points and once in a lifetime system so 17 points is the max that you can have as of now for an OIL tag. Prior to that it was a crap shoot. I know plenty of folks who have 20 or more years into trying to pull a sheep, moose or goat tag.Alright, I get it. There isn't a cap on pts, just the most you could have since the system started.
Post by: bullchaser on May 21, 2012, 08:34:34 AM
I like that new phrase "Never in a lifetime" unfortunately that is true for most guys but I can say that if you are lucky enough to have your number come up it is well worth the wait, both of my OIL hunts were amazing and its hard to imagine a better hunt here in WA so its worth it.
With your luck you will probably draw a goat tag to complete your OIL slam.
Post by: Bob33 on May 21, 2012, 09:04:00 AM
Been applying for sheep, moose and goat for 27 years and have max (17) points for all 3 like half of the folks out there. Yes, the system is messed up!The issue is simply too many applicants for very few permits. There were 15,696 applicants last year for 38 sheep permits. That's one permit for every 413 applicants. :twocents:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/results.php?Species=SHEEP
Post by: MtnMuley on May 21, 2012, 12:59:10 PM
Wow, 17 years is a long wait.
Many will have over 40.....then die with their points turned into dust in the wind...........
Post by: d_wilson on May 21, 2012, 01:06:14 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 21, 2012, 01:23:45 PM
Post by: 180-GRAIN on May 21, 2012, 02:08:45 PM
Drew moose in 2009 with 7 points!
11 for elk
9 for deer
You would think a tag of some sort should be in my pocket this season. Im not getting my hopes up though.
Post by: Whitpirate on May 21, 2012, 02:42:20 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 21, 2012, 02:48:46 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on May 21, 2012, 03:10:35 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/points/2011.php
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 21, 2012, 03:24:07 PM
everybody keeps saying max points is 17, but if you look at the '2011Hunter used by Permit category'....It shows a few people had 18 points last year. Please help me understand!!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/points/2011.php
Probably a guy with 8 points that turned in a poacher.
Post by: Austrian Hunter on May 21, 2012, 03:28:48 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 21, 2012, 04:05:59 PM
Post by: danderson on May 21, 2012, 04:52:19 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on May 21, 2012, 04:57:27 PM
everybody keeps saying max points is 17, but if you look at the '2011Hunter used by Permit category'....It shows a few people had 18 points last year. Please help me understand!!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/points/2011.php
Probably a guy with 8 points that turned in a poacher.
But the 18 points was for Moose and I thought you could only use those points for deer and elk?
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 21, 2012, 05:05:09 PM
everybody keeps saying max points is 17, but if you look at the '2011Hunter used by Permit category'....It shows a few people had 18 points last year. Please help me understand!!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/points/2011.php
Probably a guy with 8 points that turned in a poacher.
But the 18 points was for Moose and I thought you could only use those points for deer and elk?
Turned in a moose poacher... :dunno:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on May 21, 2012, 05:18:17 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on May 21, 2012, 05:34:15 PM
everybody keeps saying max points is 17, but if you look at the '2011Hunter used by Permit category'....It shows a few people had 18 points last year. Please help me understand!!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/points/2011.php
Probably a guy with 8 points that turned in a poacher.
But the 18 points was for Moose and I thought you could only use those points for deer and elk?
Turned in a moose poacher... :dunno:
Thanks Pathfinder......... :dunno:
Post by: d_wilson on May 21, 2012, 07:14:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 21, 2012, 07:42:14 PM
After reading about all you guys not putting in for OIL tags, I'm starting to feel more optimistic about my chances of drawing.
:yeah: I did my part, I stayed out of the sheep drawing this year, but I'm in for moose with 16 points. :IBCOOL:
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
Luck of the draw, the guy that drew the sheep tag for The Swakane Unit. Drew with only four points and he's still holding the California Sheep world record with the ram he took with the permit.
Actually he had 6 points but I think everyone gets the point. ;)
Go catch a few poachers and you should pass them up in points in little time!Quote from: link=topic=98047.msg1270465#msg1270465 date=1337535426
I believe poaching points only go toward elk or deer points and not OIL tags.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 21, 2012, 07:56:30 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 21, 2012, 07:57:57 PM
I believe poaching points only go toward elk or deer points and not OIL tags.You are correct.
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
Yeah huntnphool, I checked WAC 232 and it says elk and deer. The reg book pg 70 didn't specify. And maybe someone can help me out if my memory is failing, but wasn't there a thread on here maybe a year ago where a guy helped with a poaching investigation of a moose or sheep. The warden told him he could put the points in the OIL category or give him money, and many members here told him OIL points would be better than gold. ????
I know Coach helped with a sheep case last year and recieved points but I believe they also went either to deer or elk. Knowing Coach I'd bet it was elk. 8)
Post by: Bob33 on May 21, 2012, 08:15:38 PM
6. Citizen reward for reporting violations - bonus points: A person who provides information which contributes substantially to the arrest of another person for illegally hunting or killing big game or an endangered species as defined by Title 77 RCW is eligible to receive ten bonus points toward the special hunting permit drawing for one application category of deer or elk special hunting season permits.
Post by: bobcat on May 21, 2012, 08:17:27 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 21, 2012, 08:18:59 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 21, 2012, 08:27:47 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 21, 2012, 08:28:52 PM
Post by: wannahunt on May 22, 2012, 06:00:31 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on May 22, 2012, 06:04:32 AM
I see that one guy has 36 points for quality elk. must have turned in more then one poacher. Still he didn't draw anything last year so he will be in again this year with 37. That adds up to 1369 names in the hat for just that one guy.
Hmmm.........I'm pretty sure he chose the point option last year................ ;)
Post by: coachcw on May 22, 2012, 06:26:59 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 22, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Post by: Odell on May 22, 2012, 07:04:46 AM
Perhaps they will let us will them to our kids.Wow, 17 years is a long wait.
Many will have over 40.....then die with their points turned into dust in the wind...........
Post by: bobcat on May 22, 2012, 08:26:25 AM
There was one year that a few people were left out of the draw and it wasn't discovered till after results had been released so if I remember correctly those folks got an extra point for the error. That is why a few folks have one more than max on OIL species.
That would just about explain the mysterious extra points, but why is that some have TWO extra points? Last year max would have been 16, but the data shows some people with 18 in the moose, sheep, and goat categories. So maybe the people who got left out of the draw that year actually were given two points for the mistake? Or perhaps just those who complained the loudest?
Post by: Bob33 on May 22, 2012, 09:44:26 AM
With regular and poacher points combined you can come up with any number from 1 to 27 (or 37, 47, 57, ...)There was one year that a few people were left out of the draw and it wasn't discovered till after results had been released so if I remember correctly those folks got an extra point for the error. That is why a few folks have one more than max on OIL species.
That would just about explain the mysterious extra points, but why is that some have TWO extra points? Last year max would have been 16, but the data shows some people with 18 in the moose, sheep, and goat categories. So maybe the people who got left out of the draw that year actually were given two points for the mistake? Or perhaps just those who complained the loudest?
Post by: Curly on May 22, 2012, 09:52:12 AM
With regular and poacher points combined you can come up with any number from 1 to 27 (or 37, 47, 57, ...)There was one year that a few people were left out of the draw and it wasn't discovered till after results had been released so if I remember correctly those folks got an extra point for the error. That is why a few folks have one more than max on OIL species.
That would just about explain the mysterious extra points, but why is that some have TWO extra points? Last year max would have been 16, but the data shows some people with 18 in the moose, sheep, and goat categories. So maybe the people who got left out of the draw that year actually were given two points for the mistake? Or perhaps just those who complained the loudest?
But poacher points don't go toward OIL permits. They probably got 2 points for the WDFW (or Outdoor Central) screw-up..........
Post by: Bob33 on May 22, 2012, 10:15:19 AM
You are right. Thanks for the correction.With regular and poacher points combined you can come up with any number from 1 to 27 (or 37, 47, 57, ...)There was one year that a few people were left out of the draw and it wasn't discovered till after results had been released so if I remember correctly those folks got an extra point for the error. That is why a few folks have one more than max on OIL species.
That would just about explain the mysterious extra points, but why is that some have TWO extra points? Last year max would have been 16, but the data shows some people with 18 in the moose, sheep, and goat categories. So maybe the people who got left out of the draw that year actually were given two points for the mistake? Or perhaps just those who complained the loudest?
But poacher points don't go toward OIL permits. They probably got 2 points for the WDFW (or Outdoor Central) screw-up..........
Post by: JLS on May 22, 2012, 10:19:05 AM
So how else can a person acquire extra points? How many points do you get for being a DFW employee? >:(
DFW employees are not eligible for poacher points.
Post by: get one leakin on May 22, 2012, 08:16:08 PM
The sad part is they will get harder to draw because the wolf numbers will grow. You have to wonder if you should pull the plug on the special permits..pull the plug :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on May 22, 2012, 08:26:55 PM
So how else can a person acquire extra points? How many points do you get for being a DFW employee? >:(
DFW employees are not eligible for poacher points.
I wasn't serious when I said that. I know it probably wasn't obvious from my post though.
Post by: JLS on May 22, 2012, 09:15:02 PM
Post by: royalbull on May 22, 2012, 11:19:43 PM
So how else can a person acquire extra points? How many points do you get for being a DFW employee? >:(
DFW employees are not eligible for poacher points.
I wasn't serious when I said that. I know it probably wasn't obvious from my post though.
Never mentioned Poacher points
Post by: bobcat on May 22, 2012, 11:23:49 PM
So how else can a person acquire extra points? How many points do you get for being a DFW employee? >:(
DFW employees are not eligible for poacher points.
I wasn't serious when I said that. I know it probably wasn't obvious from my post though.
Never mentioned Poacher points
"Poacher points" were discussed, and the fact that they can be placed only in deer or elk permit categories, so how did some people have 17 or 18 points for moose last year, when the max should have been 16? That was the question.
Post by: Co on May 23, 2012, 12:22:33 AM
And after reading all this I dont think I will get drawn, and not feeling as lucky as 15 min. ago ... :'( Because everyone is feeling lucky so it should be big computer glitch of a yr with everyone getting drawn!
Good luck guys
lol
Post by: Deep Forks on May 23, 2012, 02:50:32 AM
Post by: JLS on May 23, 2012, 07:43:47 AM
So how else can a person acquire extra points? How many points do you get for being a DFW employee? >:(
DFW employees are not eligible for poacher points.
I wasn't serious when I said that. I know it probably wasn't obvious from my post though.
Never mentioned Poacher points
They don't get points of any kind.
Post by: Bob33 on May 23, 2012, 08:18:02 AM
Points Drew
1 0.00%
2 0.00%
3 0.00%
4 0.10%
5 0.06%
6 0.32%
7 0.60%
8 0.28%
9 0.42%
10 0.42%
11 0.82%
12 1.58%
13 1.38%
14 0.34%
15 2.63%
16 1.79%
17 10.00%
18 0.00%
Post by: bearpaw on May 23, 2012, 08:22:09 AM
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 09:21:02 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 23, 2012, 09:41:37 AM
Post by: HornHoarder on May 23, 2012, 09:49:19 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 23, 2012, 10:00:00 AM
Based on those numbers the system is working as designed the problem is too much demand and not enough tags. The question is how supportive would people be of increasing tag numbers knowing trophy quality would go down?That is exactly the problem, and there is no easy solution.
Last year there were 22,333 applicants for 78 "any moose" permits. If you gave permits only to those with maximum points, it would work for a couple years but then it collapses. Using moose as an example, there were 449 applicants with 16 or more points. If you gave 78 permits per year to just those applicants, it would take five years to fill the demand. During those five years, applicants with less than 16 points would have no chance to draw. The process would continue. There were 4,500 applicants with ten or more points. It would take 57 years to fill that demand, during which applicants with less than ten points have no chance of drawing. Who would want to start out with a system like that? The answer is no one, so applications would drop off, which would reduce revenues significantly, which probably would mean even higher application fees for those who wanted to continue playing for 57 years.
You could double the number of permits. That doubles draw odds but they would still be well under 5% for even those with maximum points. If harvest is too high and herd strength is impacted, the long term result will be even fewer permits.
Simply put: there are very few quality animals in Washington for a very large number of applicants.
The best thing that WDFW can do, in my opinion, is increase predation management efforts.
Washington hunters should recognize that they will most likely not get drawn for an OIL tag in their lifetimes. If you really want to hunt a moose, goat, or sheep - consider saving your money and applying / hunting elsewhere.
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 10:05:27 AM
Post by: JLS on May 23, 2012, 11:01:45 AM
Based on those numbers the system is working as designed the problem is too much demand and not enough tags. The question is how supportive would people be of increasing tag numbers knowing trophy quality would go down?
I would be supportive of some decrease in trophy quality.
Post by: 7mag. on May 23, 2012, 11:32:25 AM
:yeah: I think the system is one of the better ones out there, at least you have a chance every year.
I agree. People seem to get frustrated and angry when they don't draw, but in reality, you can hunt deer and elk successfully every year in the this state without ever drawing a quality tag. I like knowing that every year I have a chance at a quality tag, and if I don't draw, I can still hunt every thing except Moose, Goat, and Sheep.
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 23, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
Post by: JLS on May 23, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
If you guys want better odds at drawing, ID has the best thing going IMHO where you have to pick your poison. When we want it all, i.e. getting to apply for bull, quality bull, antlerless, moose, sheep, goat, yada yada yada, well then your odds are realistically going to go $hit.
Post by: Bob33 on May 23, 2012, 12:15:36 PM
Here's a reality check though guys, name a state where you can legitimately EXPECT to draw a OIL tag? Even MT and WY you cannot expect it as a resident.For moose, Idaho comes close. The problem with Idaho is that you will actually draw within a few years: you need to fork over some big bills when you do. :chuckle:
If you guys want better odds at drawing, ID has the best thing going IMHO where you have to pick your poison. When we want it all, i.e. getting to apply for bull, quality bull, antlerless, moose, sheep, goat, yada yada yada, well then your odds are realistically going to go $hit.
Post by: coachcw on May 23, 2012, 12:54:56 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 01:44:58 PM
. how about if you harvest a deer or elk you loose a point or two , that may make us pass up some dinks ?
All that would do is scew the reporting numbers even worse. There were already a lot of guys on this site that admitted to false reporting even without penalty, do you think they are going to be more likely to report honestly if they are penalized for being successful?
Post by: MtnMuley on May 23, 2012, 02:38:24 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on May 23, 2012, 02:47:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 02:51:16 PM
I would be on board with making the OIL tags so that you only get to draw 1 OIL tag in a lifetime. If you draw a hunt your done for life for all 3 species.
I would be fine with that but it wouldn't help draw odds much, if at all.
What they need to do is to allow a person to only apply for one, instead of all three.
Post by: JLS on May 23, 2012, 02:52:06 PM
I say give a guaranteed percentage (say 50% where there are more that 1 tag) of the OIL tags to those in the maximum point pool. :twocents:
Can you spell massive point creep?
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 02:53:20 PM
I would be on board with making the OIL tags so that you only get to draw 1 OIL tag in a lifetime. If you draw a hunt your done for life for all 3 species.:yike:
Post by: Chesapeake on May 23, 2012, 02:57:46 PM
I say give a guaranteed percentage (say 50% where there are more that 1 tag) of the OIL tags to those in the maximum point pool. :twocents:
The problem with going to such a system at this point is that there are soo many people in the top points brackets there would be massive points creep. The guys with 17 points would take the next 10 years to draw out all three species. Meanwhile those with less than 17 would have almost no chance of drawing. Then at about 10 years from now you would start into the guys that have 16 points now, but they would have 26 or so by then.
What we need is a system that reduces the number of applicants. There isnt enough tags to keep up with the current demand at this point. We need to reduce demand.
Post by: Chesapeake on May 23, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
]I would be on board with making the OIL tags so that you only get to draw 1 OIL tag in a lifetime. If you draw a hunt your done for life for all 3 species.
I would be fine with that but it wouldn't help draw odds much, if at all.
What they need to do is to allow a person to only apply for one, instead of all three.
Yeah, 1 catagory, all three species, pick only 4 hunts, points are for the catagory not species, if you draw your done.
The only bad selling point is the WDFW would complain of the potential to lose the $27 from folks putting in for all 3 OIL draws. But I wouldnt argue against the 1 catagory costing $40 for the draw application.
WDFW could get their money, it would cost us the same, and your chance of drawing even 1 OIL in your life would improve.
I dont think we would be giving anything up. Its not like we currently have a snowballs chance in hell of ever drawing more than 1 OIL tag in a lifetime anyway.
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 03:23:03 PM
]I dont think we would be giving anything up. Its not like we currently have a snowballs chance in hell of ever drawing more than 1 OIL tag in a lifetime anyway.
Not giving anything up? What about those of us that have been applying for all three the whole time, are we really not giving anything up?
Maybe impliment it for anyone that has never applied before and are just starting out but don't forget about those of us that have years of applications, we actually do have a snowballs chance. ;)
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2012, 03:26:17 PM
He didn't put in for ghost, at the end of the list of quality elk it shows the numbers on ghost points also. The guys who put in for ghost points started at 23 or 24.I see that one guy has 36 points for quality elk. must have turned in more then one poacher. Still he didn't draw anything last year so he will be in again this year with 37. That adds up to 1369 names in the hat for just that one guy.
Hmmm.........I'm pretty sure he chose the point option last year................ ;)
Post by: Chesapeake on May 23, 2012, 03:49:11 PM
]I dont think we would be giving anything up. Its not like we currently have a snowballs chance in hell of ever drawing more than 1 OIL tag in a lifetime anyway.
Not giving anything up? What about those of us that have been applying for all three the whole time, are we really not giving anything up?
Maybe impliment it for anyone that has never applied before and are just starting out but don't forget about those of us that have years of applications, we actually do have a snowballs chance. ;)
Can you tell me what it is you believe you would be giving up?
I have 11 or 12 points for each this year. All I can see losing is a ~.01% chance of drawing more than 1 species in my lifetime. I could live with that loss. Especialy if in doing so I improved my odds of drawing at least 1 OIL tag in my lifetime.
Over the years how many of the tens of thousands of folks who have applied for OIL tags in Washington have drawn more than 1?
With the current system, if you applied for a moose tag for 60 years, you would have about a 20% chance of drawing one. To say that another way. About 4000 of the 22000 people curently applying for moose tags will draw a tag in the next 60 years. The other 17000 folks wont draw in the next 60 years. If you figure goat the same way you have a 9% chance in the next 60 years. Sheep is 15% chance in the next 60 years.
The vast majority of us will never draw one of these tags. Its a sad reality. But one I think many folks dont grasp.
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 23, 2012, 04:04:54 PM
Post by: Curly on May 23, 2012, 04:13:55 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 04:30:13 PM
Can you tell me what it is you believe you would be giving up?]
Seriously??? How about 17 years worth permit application fees for starters!!! :bash:
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 04:38:52 PM
Quote
Seriously??? How about 17 years worth permit application fees for starters!!!
Oh come on! That's like saying the state should pay you back for all the Lotto tickets you purchased in the past because you never won. Besides, you already drew your moose tag, so why do you care?
Post by: Gringo31 on May 23, 2012, 04:39:41 PM
I'm not looking to stir the pot, but there doesn't appear to be much balance there....
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 04:42:45 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on May 23, 2012, 05:16:45 PM
You are throwing your money into a dark hole. There is little chance if any that you will ever see a return on your investment. If you wish to call it an investment.
I believe they do you a far worse disservice by continueing to take your money year after year.
Do you buy loto tickets, or do you think its a waste?
I think they screwed the folks that just drew the year before they started all these catagories more then the screw your talking about. Those folks started at zero in all of the catagories for a given species when the rest of us got given a ton of free points. Them folks will never catch up.
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 05:22:17 PM
And for the record, I have never purchased a lottery ticket. ;)
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
So you think it's okay for the state to simply start over and screw those of us that have been applying out of our money? Would you have felt the same way if they had done that with the deer and elk permits a couple years ago? Those that drew quality the year before probably wouldn't have a issue with it but those with 10+ points sure would have.
Chesapeake took the words right out of my mouth- they already screwed many of us over when they split the permits into all the new categories two years ago.
The option of only applying for one OIL per year isn't taking anything away from you, as you would still have your points in each category. You could apply for sheep one year, and mountain goat the next, if you wish.
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 05:35:16 PM
Bob, he is talking about drawing one species and being done, finished, not being able to apply for the other two, this is where guys that have been applying for all three get screwed.
Oh yeah, that. Well, my feeling on that is if you get drawn for one you should be happy with your luck and shouldn't have a problem if you can't apply again for the others. Of course, I feel that way because I have not drawn any of them. And you have, so obviously you now want a chance to draw goat and/or sheep. But don't you think it would be more fair for you to drop out of the OIL draw and let others have a chance?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 23, 2012, 05:36:20 PM
The only thing that will really make a difference is for there to be more animals and more permits given out. How do we get more moose, sheep, and goats? Kill more predators. 8)I'll only mention goats.... There used to be goat hunting available in the Olympics. I believe last survey showed around 400 goats. They are non-native to the area (may have been native at one time, but the current ones are linked to goat introduction). Couldn't hunt the national park, but maybe somehow get the national forest hunts reopened. There are quite a few goats running around in those wilderness areas. Maybe some lobbying or something and you could get a few more goat permits.
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 05:45:03 PM
What we need is a system that reduces the number of applicants. There isnt enough tags to keep up with the current demand at this point. We need to reduce demand.
This is the answer right here. One way to reduce applicants is to raise the prices, which they did this year. The second way is what we've been discussing, putting some sort of limits on who can apply and how many species can be applied for.
What would REALLY make a difference, is to say those who apply for deer or elk special permits, cannot apply for OIL species. That's the way Idaho is, and apparently that is the reason it's possible to draw a moose tag in Idaho in only a few years. Of course the Non resident tag price of $2200 helps to keep the number of applicants down as well.
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 05:48:36 PM
As for dropping out, I think not. Everyone in this system has a chance to draw and if you don't then your odds increase each time over those that are just starting out, seems pretty fair to me, don't like the long odds, don't apply. Should we limit the raffle to those that have not won before? Should we limit the auction tags to only those that have never won, eventually those with limited incomes would be the only ones left so that would make it fair right?
Pretty soon you are going to be telling those with incomes over $250k/year should be paying their fair share too right? :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 05:54:27 PM
Post by: coachcw on May 23, 2012, 06:19:26 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 06:21:57 PM
Post by: lhrbull on May 23, 2012, 06:44:27 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 23, 2012, 07:14:43 PM
I wish it was like it was at first when u put the tag money up front or bought the ghost points. There are people appling that have no in tension on hunting if they get drawn, this would weed some of them out.
The problem is the guys that say "its turning into a rich mans sport" would get upset. I'd like to see the OIL tags be $2000 ea. if drawn and require money up front to apply but is that fair to everyone else?
Post by: Bob33 on May 23, 2012, 07:27:33 PM
By the way, the last comment was supposed to have a smiley after it as it was a joke Bob. I can't add it on my iPad for some reason.;)
Post by: 7mag. on May 23, 2012, 08:23:27 PM
Post by: Falcon on May 23, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
15 moose
4 elk
1 for deer
Shot my last billy in 99, so I'm out on goat.
I hear some say points don't matter much. Truth be told, they are your only friend in this state. Sure, you sometimes see a guy draw a premium tag with 1 or 2 points, but that is becoming rare especially with the oil tags. Start squaring the numbers, and they add up fast.
I realize my odds for sheep are about 1.5 %, even with max points, but I am still hopefull I will be drawn before I'm dead! :)
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 24, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 25, 2012, 09:25:52 AM
15 points across the board....now Im depressed after ready this thread. Thanx guys. :bash:
Don't forget; there's always luck. I had a student last year that drew a Bull Moose tag in the Selkirk Unit when she was 14, with only 2 points....
Post by: Chesapeake on May 25, 2012, 09:53:12 AM
Bottom line, I'll keep trying every year pretty well regardless of what they do. But I would like to increase the odds, as well as seperate folks out a bit depending on what they species they would prefer to draw.
huntnphool,
You should be least concerned about the change, having drawn a tag all ready. They dont make the changes retroactive, so you would start the 1 species in a life system fresh like the rest of us. You could still go for sheep or goat and wouldnt have to contend with the guys that would rather go for moose. I bet a 1 species per life system would thin the competition for the goat tags significantly. Folks would be going for moose and sheep more than goat. You would still have a shot a 2 OIL's in Washington.
A question I'm not sure of:
Do whatever points you were given per catagory when this system started go for all catagories? Said another way, will a guy that was given 20 points per catagory have 20 points waiting for him in the 65 and older catagory when he gets there?
Post by: Bob33 on May 25, 2012, 10:05:20 AM
When point replication occured in 2019, replication was done to all categories for the respective specie. If you had 20 deer points, you would then have 20 points in all the deer categories even if you were not eligible. You will have 20 points when you turn 65 in your example.
Post by: Chesapeake on May 25, 2012, 10:31:05 AM
" Do whatever points you were given per catagory when this system started go for all catagories? Said another way, will a guy that was given 20 points per catagory have 20 points waiting for him in the 65 and older catagory when he gets there?"
When point replication occured in 2019, replication was done to all categories for the respective specie. If you had 20 deer points, you would then have 20 points in all the deer categories even if you were not eligible. You will have 20 points when you turn 65 in your example.
Thats grand. So two guys that hit 65 in a few years, one that started the system with 20 points and 1 that drew a cow tag the year before the system started, will start the 65 and older catagory 20 points apart just because of a cow tag the one guy drew some odd years ago.
Nice!! :bash:
Post by: MtnMuley on May 25, 2012, 04:11:12 PM
" Do whatever points you were given per catagory when this system started go for all catagories? Said another way, will a guy that was given 20 points per catagory have 20 points waiting for him in the 65 and older catagory when he gets there?"
When point replication occured in 2019, replication was done to all categories for the respective specie. If you had 20 deer points, you would then have 20 points in all the deer categories even if you were not eligible. You will have 20 points when you turn 65 in your example.
Hmmm. So I should start buying and building points in the 65 plus pools now, so that when (if that ever happens) get to 65 I will have a boatload? I having a hard time buying that. Shouldn't you have to be 65 plus to be able to purchase points in that category? I can see if you were over 65 when this point replication occured that being the case, but am not believing that's true now. Is this a fact Bob? If so, I apologize.
Post by: bobcat on May 25, 2012, 04:58:10 PM
Quote
When point replication occured in 2010, replication was done to all categories for the respective specie
I fixed the typo in the quote above, does it make more sense now? You cannot apply in the over 65 category unless you are over 65 years old. But in 2010 if you had 20 points in the one and only deer category, you now have 20 points in ALL the deer permit categories. Even the youth category I suppose, so if you ever go back to being a kid again, those points will be waiting for you.
Post by: willapawapiti on May 29, 2012, 06:20:51 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 29, 2012, 07:03:54 PM
Thanks to a couple poachers over the years I have 37points for elk - Thought I was a shoe-in for a Blues Bull tag last year with 36! Nadda, zip, zero :) I actually sat down and did what many have done on here, calculated just how many "names" are actually in the "hat" for my specific hunts. Even with 37points, my points get watered down really quick. Just the reality of it all. But hey, ANY day afield hunting beats a day at work, special hunts are just a very rare cherry on top. ;)I have 17 points for the blues this year and after seeing your points not draw- well, it just helps me realize that my chances of drawing are almost the same as if I had 4 or 8 points. I like the Idea of the wdfw doubling your points after 15 years, the only tweeking I would do with it is I would keep doubling each year afterwards until they draw. :twocents: By the way, I sure hope your not putting in for muzzy this year!!!
Post by: willapawapiti on May 29, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on May 29, 2012, 07:51:20 PM
Post by: willapawapiti on May 29, 2012, 07:57:52 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on May 29, 2012, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 29, 2012, 08:26:25 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 29, 2012, 08:28:57 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 29, 2012, 08:51:54 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 29, 2012, 10:04:58 PM
You just let the air out of those of us with 17 points this year.
Not those of us that hunt archery. ;)
Post by: summit creek on May 30, 2012, 06:42:07 PM
Sorry guys, knew I shouldn't have posted......Really part of it is my BAD LUCK with drawings - honest :) I couldn't draw with my 37 points - probably the same if I had 100 points!how did you get 37 points
Post by: huntnphool on May 30, 2012, 06:45:51 PM
Sorry guys, knew I shouldn't have posted......Really part of it is my BAD LUCK with drawings - honest :) I couldn't draw with my 37 points - probably the same if I had 100 points!how did you get 37 points
Read his previous posts, #138 he explains it.
Post by: summit creek on May 30, 2012, 07:56:30 PM
Sorry guys, knew I shouldn't have posted......Really part of it is my BAD LUCK with drawings - honest :) I couldn't draw with my 37 points - probably the same if I had 100 points!how did you get 37 points
Read his previous posts, #138 he explains it.thanks i was wondering you must get 10 points or so for turning in with a conviction hes got lots of points now how does it work if you nark is it points for the species poched or points across the board for all the above goats sheep and so on
Post by: huntnphool on May 30, 2012, 09:54:32 PM
Sorry guys, knew I shouldn't have posted......Really part of it is my BAD LUCK with drawings - honest :) I couldn't draw with my 37 points - probably the same if I had 100 points!how did you get 37 points
Read his previous posts, #138 he explains it.thanks i was wondering you must get 10 points or so for turning in with a conviction hes got lots of points now how does it work if you nark is it points for the species poched or points across the board for all the above goats sheep and so on
10 poaching points are given in your choice of either elk or deer.
Post by: willapawapiti on May 31, 2012, 06:13:19 PM
Post by: PA BEN on June 04, 2012, 06:08:24 AM
If you want to shoot a bull don't put in for cows. BTW, I had 10 points when I drew my 2008 49 moose tag. Putting in for cows now that I can't draw a bull tag anymore." Do whatever points you were given per catagory when this system started go for all catagories? Said another way, will a guy that was given 20 points per catagory have 20 points waiting for him in the 65 and older catagory when he gets there?"
When point replication occured in 2019, replication was done to all categories for the respective specie. If you had 20 deer points, you would then have 20 points in all the deer categories even if you were not eligible. You will have 20 points when you turn 65 in your example.
Thats grand. So two guys that hit 65 in a few years, one that started the system with 20 points and 1 that drew a cow tag the year before the system started, will start the 65 and older catagory 20 points apart just because of a cow tag the one guy drew some odd years ago.
Nice!! :bash:
Post by: Bigshooter on June 04, 2012, 10:22:45 PM
:yeah: I think the system is one of the better ones out there, at least you have a chance every year.
:yeah:
Post by: huntnphool on June 04, 2012, 10:35:54 PM
:yeah: I think the system is one of the better ones out there, at least you have a chance every year.
:yeah:
If it was like a lot of other states would there already be 7 pages of anticipation of the draw dates? http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=98495.msg1277534#msg1277534