Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => All Other Gear => Topic started by: vandeman17 on June 18, 2019, 11:39:22 AM

Title: meateater buying first lite
Post by: vandeman17 on June 18, 2019, 11:39:22 AM
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/06/18/1870095/0/en/Steven-Rinella-s-MeatEater-Acquires-Hunting-Apparel-Brand-First-Lite.html
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2019, 11:44:54 AM
Life is good for Steve!
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: vandeman17 on June 18, 2019, 11:52:37 AM
Life is good for Steve!

No kidding! He has been a First Lite guy for as long as I can remember
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: bearpaw on June 18, 2019, 11:52:56 AM
I hope he improves the durability, some of my guides were using it but they are tired of sending stuff back on warranty. It's good stuff if it was just a little more durable it would be better.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: cougforester on June 18, 2019, 12:17:38 PM
I hope he improves the durability, some of my guides were using it but they are tired of sending stuff back on warranty. It's good stuff if it was just a little more durable it would be better.

Exactly my gripe with FL. Doesnít hold up at all. Hopefully he can improve it and Iíd try it again!
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: hughjorgan on June 18, 2019, 12:46:44 PM
What isnít holding up for you guys, only durability issue I had was with their pants...
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: X-Force on June 18, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
Interesting
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on June 18, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
What isnít holding up for you guys, only durability issue I had was with their pants...

i put holes in theirshirts after a few hunts and wore holds in their boxers in maybe two weeks of hiking
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2019, 01:00:37 PM
What isnít holding up for you guys, only durability issue I had was with their pants...

i put holes in theirshirts after a few hunts and wore holds in their boxers in maybe two weeks of hiking
:yeah: and stitching coming undone.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Karl Blanchard on June 18, 2019, 01:13:42 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 18, 2019, 01:34:24 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(
:nono:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on June 18, 2019, 02:45:02 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(
:nono:
Yeah, how dare you have a non PC opinion. The internet makes me sick. Did everyone get neutered or something?
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on June 18, 2019, 02:52:44 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(

I get that, but i would expect a 45$ pair of boxers to hold up to more than two elk hunts.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Pathfinder101 on June 18, 2019, 03:02:33 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(
:nono:
Yeah, how dare you have a non PC opinion. The internet makes me sick. Did everyone get neutered or something?

They don't have to be Asian.  Any 3rd world country sweat shop will do.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bango skank on June 18, 2019, 03:06:51 PM
Anyone expecting light weight merino wool to hold up like a synthetic is living in fantasy land. Of course high friction areas are gonna wear out lightning fast and exterior garments are gonna get chewed up by brush and rock. That's not FL's fault. Now the stitching issue is a real thing. Hopefully Meateater can find some better Asian children who can sew better :'(

I get that, but i would expect a 45$ pair of boxers to hold up to more than two elk hunts.
  have you tried woolly clothing company? Way better boxers.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: trophyhunt on June 18, 2019, 03:12:59 PM
I'm seeing holes in their merlino in places they shouldn't be, always been a fan but also always been concerned about the quality.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Stein on June 18, 2019, 04:05:01 PM
Camofire wool holds up better at half the price.  Holes wear through FL in strange spots, hems fray out, stitching dissolves and their wool just wears out shockingly quickly.

I wouldnít be surprised if FL was headed toward problems after dropping all their distributors and rolling out horrible policies.

I gave up after they came up with the no return policy on anything on sale.  There are simply better companies to buy from that are making better products for a better price and better policies.

Years ago, they were ahead of the curve, but they arenít any more.


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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Whitpirate on June 18, 2019, 04:13:29 PM
Makes more sense why Callahan went full-time at MeatEater in advance of this....
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 18, 2019, 04:56:42 PM
They're great if you treat them as disposable garments, like a diaper just change out daily for a new pair and life would be good!

But I aint sponsored and that costs too much

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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: andersonjk4 on June 18, 2019, 05:13:18 PM
Former Sitka President Kevin Sloan is currently CEO if MeatEater Inc... Hopefully he will have a good influence on First Lite. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jackelope on June 18, 2019, 05:57:27 PM
I have a harder time rationalizing $45 boxers in the first place, nevermind $45 boxers with holes in them. I'd lose my ever loving mind.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Karl Blanchard on June 18, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Camofire wool holds up better at half the price.  Holes wear through FL in strange spots, hems fray out, stitching dissolves and their wool just wears out shockingly quickly.

I wouldnít be surprised if FL was headed toward problems after dropping all their distributors and rolling out horrible policies.

I gave up after they came up with the no return policy on anything on sale.  There are simply better companies to buy from that are making better products for a better price and better policies.

Years ago, they were ahead of the curve, but they arenít any more.


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camofire is a synthetic wool blend so not really a good comparison. That camofire stuff gets to stinking just like any other synthetic.   
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: cbond3318 on June 18, 2019, 06:37:46 PM
Iíd rather smell like a dumpster behind KFC.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Stein on June 18, 2019, 06:38:31 PM
This is the stuff I have, 100% merino.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/221b4b21144bd686527d35e64797b77b.jpg)


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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Karl Blanchard on June 18, 2019, 06:49:48 PM
Well I was gonna post the picture of the tag on mine that says 80/20 wool spandex or whatever ratio it was but it's a black blank tag. They must have changed their blend at some point since I've bought this shirt. Durability wise I'd put it right there with the 2 FL items I use which is a chama hoodie and a Llano quarter zip. The chama is 4 years old. Maybe I dont hunt all that hard :dunno:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 18, 2019, 07:35:12 PM
I have a harder time rationalizing $45 boxers in the first place, nevermind $45 boxers with holes in them. I'd lose my ever loving mind.
Boom. 

I donít hunt as much as Karl but I seem to hear about quality issues from them from day hunters regularly.   I can ďbuy once cry onceĒ but I canít just keep buying something if Iím not confident it will
1)survive
2)be covered by warranty
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jpmiller on June 18, 2019, 07:35:40 PM
I don't know why but I get a slightly uneasy feeling about the whole meateater expansion. I'm literally reading into nothing so don't expect a rational defense of my position but I don't like it. Anybody else feeling this?
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Stein on June 18, 2019, 07:44:10 PM
Yeah, merino isn't kevlar for sure.  The difference now is that there are tons of companies making decent merino clothing that have better pricing and better sales terms.  Black Ovis is on Camofire all the time and they have free returns if it doesn't fit. 

I'm not against First Lite, I'm just not willing to pay a bunch of money to have something that doesn't fit right that I can't return.  Once they went away from the distributor model, their prices should have gone down to be more competitive, but didn't.  With high performance, athletic fit gear that you can't try on before you buy, they need a better return policy for sale items as well as competitive pricing.

Here is an example, I bought the Camofire 230 zip hoodie for $58, the comparable First Lite is $105-115.  For double the cost, there should be a big difference and there isn't.  I've owned both and short of the fancy logo, they are both foreign produced merino.  If a guy needs to be matchy with the the latest pattern, FL may be your ticket, but I don't care if it is solid or whatever pattern as long as it works and is fairly priced.

If they improve, I'll be glad to jump back on board, I have no ill will and would like to support them as I like the Meat Eater brand, but if they are going to be double the cost for the same thing and hard to deal with, I'm not interested.

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 18, 2019, 07:54:06 PM
I don't know why but I get a slightly uneasy feeling about the whole meateater expansion. I'm literally reading into nothing so don't expect a rational defense of my position but I don't like it. Anybody else feeling this?

Yes but I've been told I'm just a hater. Which might be true, I can barely stomach the podcast anymore. Getting a bit high on their own supply imo
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 18, 2019, 08:00:44 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jimmybelltown on June 18, 2019, 08:17:54 PM
 I have had good luck with the FL socks and crotch rot from the boxers. I would rather talk about pizza then politics.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: baker5150 on June 18, 2019, 09:05:43 PM
Iím surprised they sold.  Must be more to it. Hopefully there arenít any issues.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 19, 2019, 09:37:30 AM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 09:46:34 AM
Agree, fanboi's jump your butt a bit too quick if ya say any negatives

Hasn't stopped me yet though

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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 19, 2019, 09:49:03 AM
Agree, fanboi's jump your butt a bit too quick if ya say any negatives

Hasn't stopped me yet though

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I see whatcha did there.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Cab on June 19, 2019, 10:02:31 AM
Best wool underwear I've tried is Duluth's Alaskan Hardgear(I think I got them for $20-$25). So what FL does to their wool is use a company I have had a few meetings with called Cocona with their 37.5 which provides a great tech for odor control/moisture control. They have tried to create new tech to help with durability of the wool as well. 37.5 is not really a company that specializes in wool, so I wouldn't be surprised if FL starts looking else where for new tech to help them with durability. My FL boxers lasted I think 3 washes and were toast but my Obsidian pants have held up so-so. Had to stitch up the zipper area a few times and a few small holes in shin area. I want to support FL but honestly the durability is just not there like I've experienced with Kuiu and Sitka.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 19, 2019, 10:03:55 AM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

I think if your top issue in life is hunting/fishing, then Steven Rinella could easily be your god.  He truly is one of the greatest voices for that arena right now.

That being said, if you have a life outside hunting/fishing, and weigh those passions with other personal belief systems or interests, then you may likely not always agree with his actions and statements. 

I certainly can't get behind everything he says, but I appreciate most of his work.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 10:25:47 AM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

I think if your top issue in life is hunting/fishing, then Steven Rinella could easily be your god.  He truly is one of the greatest voices for that arena right now.

That being said, if you have a life outside hunting/fishing, and weigh those passions with other personal belief systems or interests, then you may likely not always agree with his actions and statements. 

I certainly can't get behind everything he says, but I appreciate most of his work.
Well said..Renilla is a bit too REI for me, doesn't mean I can't admire what he does for the hunting community. Hope he turns FL into even better gear, as right now I'm probaly gonna buy sitka outerwear and wool base, but not FL base.

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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 19, 2019, 10:31:43 AM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

I think if your top issue in life is hunting/fishing, then Steven Rinella could easily be your god.  He truly is one of the greatest voices for that arena right now.

That being said, if you have a life outside hunting/fishing, and weigh those passions with other personal belief systems or interests, then you may likely not always agree with his actions and statements. 

I certainly can't get behind everything he says, but I appreciate most of his work.
Well said..Renilla is a bit too REI for me, doesn't mean I can't admire what he does for the hunting community. Hope he turns FL into even better gear, as right now I'm probaly gonna buy sitka outerwear and wool base, but not FL base.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
It's no contest for me.  The Pro pricing for Sitka just can't be beat.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 19, 2019, 10:44:41 AM
Life is good for Steve!
Former Sitka President Kevin Sloan is currently CEO if MeatEater Inc... Hopefully he will have a good influence on First Lite.

Meateater is not Steve Rinella.

The real boss of the operation is movie producer, investor and pal of democratic hopefuls Peter Chernin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Chernin#Politics
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: grundy53 on June 19, 2019, 11:03:07 AM
This is the stuff I have, 100% merino.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/221b4b21144bd686527d35e64797b77b.jpg)


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This is what I use. I love it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: mburrows on June 19, 2019, 11:10:04 AM
Just some background; Chernin's group owns a minority stake of MeatEater. The real boss of meateater is still Rinella and Kevin Sloan who is the CEO of meateater and former CEO of Sitka Gear.

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 19, 2019, 11:17:52 AM
Just some background; Chernin's group owns a minority stake of MeatEater. The real boss of meateater is still Rinella and Kevin Sloan who is the CEO of meateater and former CEO of Sitka Gear.

Source?  That is contrary to what was reported at the time.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 11:17:53 AM
Just some background; Chernin's group owns a minority majority stake of MeatEater. The real boss of meateater is still Rinella and Kevin Sloan who is the CEO of meateater and former CEO of Sitka Gear.

Majority stakeholders are the real bosses, CEO's must answer to them or be replaced. 


https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/chernin-group-steven-rinella-meateater-1202964920/
https://www.multichannel.com/news/chernin-group-takes-control-steven-rinellas-meateater-inc

chernin group also produces Rinella's podcast. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 19, 2019, 11:18:57 AM
Somebody got a slap down
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 11:21:36 AM
Somebody got a slap down

beat me by 1 second  :chuckle:


Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: mburrows on June 19, 2019, 12:54:31 PM
My mistake. I was parsing from the statement Rinella released.  Where he says the original meateater crew and new CEO retain 3 of the 5 board seats and he retains all creative rights.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/steven-rinella-addresses-questions-about-meateater-inc

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bango skank on June 19, 2019, 01:06:14 PM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Cab on June 19, 2019, 01:36:33 PM
I saw Rinella in Portland at a predators hunting convention. He didn't speak at all about predators but just about the history of hunters being conservationist. During the Q& A he didn't come off as friendly as I thought he would be or as he is shown on the show(especially when he is joking around with his buddies etc.) it kind of felt like he didn't want to be there which was a shame because the tickets were $100 each and that was my X-Mas gift from my wife. I was so pumped to see Steve live and all I got was 30mins of him talking about the same stuff he does on his show/podcast with an unfriendly Q&A. At the end I didn't even get in line to take a photo or get anything signed from him, I just went home disappointed. I feel like there was a thread on here about it afterwards and if I remember correctly I wasn't the only one disappointed. The saying never meet your heroes comes to mind. That said, I support him still and watch his show on Netflix but I stopped listening to the podcast. Great advocate for hunting and fishing but maybe not the nicest of guys.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jpmiller on June 19, 2019, 05:29:25 PM
I saw Rinella in Portland at a predators hunting convention. He didn't speak at all about predators but just about the history of hunters being conservationist. During the Q& A he didn't come off as friendly as I thought he would be or as he is shown on the show(especially when he is joking around with his buddies etc.) it kind of felt like he didn't want to be there which was a shame because the tickets were $100 each and that was my X-Mas gift from my wife. I was so pumped to see Steve live and all I got was 30mins of him talking about the same stuff he does on his show/podcast with an unfriendly Q&A. At the end I didn't even get in line to take a photo or get anything signed from him, I just went home disappointed. I feel like there was a thread on here about it afterwards and if I remember correctly I wasn't the only one disappointed. The saying never meet your heroes comes to mind. That said, I support him still and watch his show on Netflix but I stopped listening to the podcast. Great advocate for hunting and fishing but maybe not the nicest of guys.

My sister in law has spent some time with him and his wife and speaks glowingly of him. She worked with his wife for a number of years and I got a personalized signed book out of the deal before I even knew who he was (he was already a big deal I was just oblivious). I think it's really easy for these public personalities to come across like you described when you're doing these "shows" all the time but I'll still give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 19, 2019, 08:32:17 PM
I saw Rinella in Portland at a predators hunting convention. He didn't speak at all about predators but just about the history of hunters being conservationist. During the Q& A he didn't come off as friendly as I thought he would be or as he is shown on the show(especially when he is joking around with his buddies etc.) it kind of felt like he didn't want to be there which was a shame because the tickets were $100 each and that was my X-Mas gift from my wife. I was so pumped to see Steve live and all I got was 30mins of him talking about the same stuff he does on his show/podcast with an unfriendly Q&A. At the end I didn't even get in line to take a photo or get anything signed from him, I just went home disappointed. I feel like there was a thread on here about it afterwards and if I remember correctly I wasn't the only one disappointed. The saying never meet your heroes comes to mind. That said, I support him still and watch his show on Netflix but I stopped listening to the podcast. Great advocate for hunting and fishing but maybe not the nicest of guys.
You have to remember the podcast is entertainment, there is some persona building going on, one might even say almost acting. Go listen to his first appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast or some of his older media, Rinella even talks different now.

Thatís not to say he isnít friendly in real life, you just canít expect a media entertainer to be the same person on the street.

Or maybe he was just having a bad day. 


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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Cab on June 20, 2019, 09:15:00 AM
I saw Rinella in Portland at a predators hunting convention. He didn't speak at all about predators but just about the history of hunters being conservationist. During the Q& A he didn't come off as friendly as I thought he would be or as he is shown on the show(especially when he is joking around with his buddies etc.) it kind of felt like he didn't want to be there which was a shame because the tickets were $100 each and that was my X-Mas gift from my wife. I was so pumped to see Steve live and all I got was 30mins of him talking about the same stuff he does on his show/podcast with an unfriendly Q&A. At the end I didn't even get in line to take a photo or get anything signed from him, I just went home disappointed. I feel like there was a thread on here about it afterwards and if I remember correctly I wasn't the only one disappointed. The saying never meet your heroes comes to mind. That said, I support him still and watch his show on Netflix but I stopped listening to the podcast. Great advocate for hunting and fishing but maybe not the nicest of guys.
You have to remember the podcast is entertainment, there is some persona building going on, one might even say almost acting. Go listen to his first appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast or some of his older media, Rinella even talks different now.

Thatís not to say he isnít friendly in real life, you just canít expect a media entertainer to be the same person on the street.

Or maybe he was just having a bad day. 


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I've seen that JRE Podcast the first one was rough. I completely agree with you it was just a bummer and for all I know he might of had some personal stuff going on. I'm glad he is doing well because he is a great advocate for us.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SteelheadTed on June 20, 2019, 12:49:17 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SteelheadTed on June 20, 2019, 12:51:43 PM
I don't know why but I get a slightly uneasy feeling about the whole meateater expansion. I'm literally reading into nothing so don't expect a rational defense of my position but I don't like it. Anybody else feeling this?

I think I understand your hesitancy since we've seen examples of so many things go wrong as political correctness and societal pressure builds.  BUT, if anyone can do this the right way, I think Rinella can.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 20, 2019, 02:19:28 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?

I didnít bring it up and Iím not bitter.

This is a perfect example of the problem, you canít even hold an opinion thatís not gushing with approval or you somehow become a bitter person who canít forgive?

Good grief.


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Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 20, 2019, 02:31:17 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?

I didnít bring it up and Iím not bitter.

This is a perfect example of the problem, you canít even hold an opinion thatís not gushing with approval or you somehow become a bitter person who canít forgive?

Good grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hater!






 :chuckle:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 20, 2019, 03:19:50 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?

I didnít bring it up and Iím not bitter.

This is a perfect example of the problem, you canít even hold an opinion thatís not gushing with approval or you somehow become a bitter person who canít forgive?

Good grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hater!






 :chuckle:

I guess I should start a blog.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 20, 2019, 03:21:34 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?

I didnít bring it up and Iím not bitter.

This is a perfect example of the problem, you canít even hold an opinion thatís not gushing with approval or you somehow become a bitter person who canít forgive?

Good grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hater!






 :chuckle:

I guess I should start a blog. podcast.

Fixed it for ya.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Odell on June 20, 2019, 03:23:38 PM
hahaha showing my age...nobody blogs anymore
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SteelheadTed on June 20, 2019, 05:43:23 PM
@stein well said.

@odell - oh come on man, youíve been a hater since he killed his WA elk  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, it doesnít help that the FL staff are VERY outspoken when it comes to politics. Tends to turn me off.

I'd like to think I can hate on that without being a complete hater. Really bugs me when someone becomes a celebrity and we have to treat them like a god with no criticism allowed. The fanboy or hater extremes is annoying. But yeah, that elk hunt soured me big time. Don't get me started again! lol

Don't you think that if you are still bitter, even after Rinella apologized, that maybe the problem isn't Rinella?  I mean, what does a guy have to do to be forgiven by you?

I didnít bring it up and Iím not bitter.

This is a perfect example of the problem, you canít even hold an opinion thatís not gushing with approval or you somehow become a bitter person who canít forgive?

Good grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is probably one of those issues that is hard to type out and capture exactly what either of us our saying.  I think you misunderstand me and I probably misunderstand you.  This is a better conversation over a beer, or in elk camp.

All good.  Happy hunting.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jackelope on June 20, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
A podcast about a podcast. Hmm...
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2019, 06:51:55 AM
I saw Rinella in Portland at a predators hunting convention. He didn't speak at all about predators but just about the history of hunters being conservationist. During the Q& A he didn't come off as friendly as I thought he would be or as he is shown on the show(especially when he is joking around with his buddies etc.) it kind of felt like he didn't want to be there which was a shame because the tickets were $100 each and that was my X-Mas gift from my wife. I was so pumped to see Steve live and all I got was 30mins of him talking about the same stuff he does on his show/podcast with an unfriendly Q&A. At the end I didn't even get in line to take a photo or get anything signed from him, I just went home disappointed. I feel like there was a thread on here about it afterwards and if I remember correctly I wasn't the only one disappointed. The saying never meet your heroes comes to mind. That said, I support him still and watch his show on Netflix but I stopped listening to the podcast. Great advocate for hunting and fishing but maybe not the nicest of guys.
Mike Rowe is an exception that your rule. 2c

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: bearpaw on June 23, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
What isnít holding up for you guys, only durability issue I had was with their pants...

The material tears too easy in the brush, I think they need to try a merino/synthetic blend to toughen it up. They have a great warranty and have replaced everything my guides have sent back, but they are tired of having to send stuff back to be replaced.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 23, 2019, 10:15:32 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: X-Force on June 24, 2019, 08:51:26 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.



Having talked with both you and Land. There is no question to me that you are more elitist than he is and that I have no problem with BHA or their stance land, animals and people.

Organizations should have a purpose and stick with it. BHA has more to worry about than your perceived delinquency on gun rights. Hunters are a shrinking demographic and in order to bolster rolls and increase recruitment we as hunters need a larger net.

I am a life member of the NRA and will soon be a life member of BHA both organizations have their purpose.   
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: yorketransport on June 24, 2019, 10:06:54 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.

Was it the actual First Lite corporation donating the money, or was it an owner(s) or executive making the donation? The owner(s) doesnít always speak to the values of the company just like the company doesnít always speak to the values of the owner(s).
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 10:22:02 AM
We had a pretty good (heated) debate on that topic regarding Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, do we want to rehash that out here in this thread?   
Or save the work and revive that old thread?

Actually several threads about this topic:
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,236662.0.html

Here's the big one:
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,235660.0.html
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 24, 2019, 10:23:32 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.



Having talked with both you and Land. There is no question to me that you are more elitist than he is and that I have no problem with BHA or their stance land, animals and people.

Organizations should have a purpose and stick with it. BHA has more to worry about than your perceived delinquency on gun rights. Hunters are a shrinking demographic and in order to bolster rolls and increase recruitment we as hunters need a larger net.

I am a life member of the NRA and will soon be a life member of BHA both organizations have their purpose.

Elitist?  Ha! I've been called a lot of things by people that don't like me, but that one takes the cake.   :chuckle:

You've talked with me? When? Where? What did we discuss? What is your name?

When you strip away the veneer, BHA's purpose is nothing more than a carefully orchestrated mechanism to obtain more votes for the Democrat party (you know...the party that's anti-gun, anti-hunting, pro-baby-murdering, pro-higher taxes, pro-illegal immigrant, pro-socialist, pro-wealth transfer theft, etc.). That's it.  Why anyone would support any organization that is supports progressive liberalism is beyond me.

Don't want to shoot yourself?  Well then, don't point a gun at yourself and pull the trigger.

Before you shell out the coin for your life membership I'd recommend you think long and hard about what BHA is actually DOING for hunters that's meaningful. 

Again...follow the money.  Where does it come from? Where does it go? I can tell you it's not coming from their non-elitist rank and file membership...the quantity of which is wildly overstated by the way.
There are far better organizations for hunters and hunting than their thinly veiled clown show.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 24, 2019, 10:28:12 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.

Was it the actual First Lite corporation donating the money, or was it an owner(s) or executive making the donation? The owner(s) doesnít always speak to the values of the company just like the company doesnít always speak to the values of the owner(s).

The corporation via a percentage of their sales.

https://www.firstlite.com/collections/commitment-to-conservation?selectedFilters=%7B%7D

BHA and the TRCP are two sides of the same coin funded by the same foundations.


Ask yourself why don't they have other hunting dot.orgs like RMEF, WSF, MDF, RMEF, SCI, SCIF, DU, DW, NRA, NRA-ILA, etc.?  Answer: Their political philosophy runs much deeper than their catchy name and slick marketing.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: X-Force on June 24, 2019, 11:31:32 AM
Well, the money you spend on first lite products now goes to line this guys pockets. 
  Chernin has donated over $100,000 to the Democratic Party, candidates & associated organizations, as well as hosting Barack Obama at his home for a fundraiser in 2013.[46][47] He also supported Hillary Clintonin the run-up for the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[48]

This ^^^.

Always, always, always follow the money folks!

I was interested in buying some of their clothing at one point, but First Lite was dead to me when I learned they were donating a portion of their proceeds and tied at the hip philosophically to the lefties at Backcountry Elect-gun-Hating-Socialist Democrats Hunters & Anglers.



Having talked with both you and Land. There is no question to me that you are more elitist than he is and that I have no problem with BHA or their stance land, animals and people.

Organizations should have a purpose and stick with it. BHA has more to worry about than your perceived delinquency on gun rights. Hunters are a shrinking demographic and in order to bolster rolls and increase recruitment we as hunters need a larger net.

I am a life member of the NRA and will soon be a life member of BHA both organizations have their purpose.

Elitist?  Ha! I've been called a lot of things by people that don't like me, but that one takes the cake.   :chuckle:

You've talked with me? When? Where? What did we discuss? What is your name?

When you strip away the veneer, BHA's purpose is nothing more than a carefully orchestrated mechanism to obtain more votes for the Democrat party (you know...the party that's anti-gun, anti-hunting, pro-baby-murdering, pro-higher taxes, pro-illegal immigrant, pro-socialist, pro-wealth transfer theft, etc.). That's it.  Why anyone would support any organization that is supports progressive liberalism is beyond me.

Don't want to shoot yourself?  Well then, don't point a gun at yourself and pull the trigger.

Before you shell out the coin for your life membership I'd recommend you think long and hard about what BHA is actually DOING for hunters that's meaningful. 

Again...follow the money.  Where does it come from? Where does it go? I can tell you it's not coming from their non-elitist rank and file membership...the quantity of which is wildly overstated by the way.
There are far better organizations for hunters and hunting than their thinly veiled clown show.

You do good work through SCI and working with RMGA/Sheep Foundation... and probably others I donít know about. We have talked on the phone about a project. I donít not like you but as I donít understand how an NGO who supports people who support their objectives creates so much animosity. It is not as though support means 100% agreement with that individual.

How could BHA support a republican candidate who support resource exploitation, privatization and exclusion. BHA also has a vested interest in supporting a wide variety of politicians and people because the are attempting to be an inclusive group in and exclusive hobby/lifestyle.

BHA and Land are left of me, even when he and I talked he wouldnít comment on left and right issues or people so it is not as though I look through the lens of rose colored glasses.  It is easy however to support a hunting/land use organization who is supported by people I trust namely Randy Newberg and Steven Rinella. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 12:06:39 PM
My beef with BHA is they try to hide who they are and what they support while cheerleading "access for all" when in fact they only cheerlead for their specific type of access...foot only.

BHA supports more wilderness, that's fine, but be up front and honest about it and collect in like minded individuals that support more wilderness.  I feel that too many hunters are being duped into supporting a conservation group not knowing where their money is going and to what purpose, thus I encourage people to do their homework first and see what BHA is doing and supporting.  I don't deny that BHA is doing good work, some of that work has been done with HW members' money that doesn't support BHA at all and are very critical of them.   So I applaud BHA for doing those projects like the golden doe, but I cannot support things like the quiet waters initiative in Montana.   

I don't wish to keep the left from hunting, I invite them to try it out but I'd like to educate them that yes while they're fit and capable now perhaps they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by forever limiting various forms of access to public lands by creating more wilderness lest they find themselves no longer able to access once cherished hunting lands.

besides all that I have a problem with making my enemies richer, enabling them to acquire more companies and exert more influence on my dime. 
The same argument can be made about buying Chinese goods so they in turn can build their military up more to threaten us even more and steal more of our technology. 

I do not want one  :twocents: going to line the pockets of people like Chernin group.


Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 24, 2019, 12:13:24 PM
X-Force,

Well, that doesn't really help narrow it down for me.  ;)  I've talked with hundreds (thousands?) of people about a litany of projects that benefit the conservation and hunting of nearly every conceivable huntable and non-huntable species in this state. You're definitely drinking the BHA Kool-Aid if you think BHA supports a wide variety of politicians.  They only support leftists.  Prove me wrong.

Here's Backcountry Hunters & Anglers Playbook:

With political races increasingly coming down to polar opposite 50/50 percentages, candidates and public policies are won by changing the minds of a very small fraction of the populace one way or the other.

The Democratic Party recognizes the value in incremental wins. They don't play a stupid last minute Hail Mary game like Republicans and Conservatives do. They are content to pound along yard by yard towards their goal. They play this game better than anyone and they are willing to funnel MILLIONS of dollars through private foundations to entities like BHA to pick up tiny incremental percentages of votes in order to win elections and thereby gain more power and control over the long term.

They realized that the hunting and fishing community has been largely right of center for eons.  Our sub-group has a deep-seated appreciation for hunting and fishing in remote wilderness areas...and was/is ripe for the picking.

By using some slick marketing and an amazing name (I wish I had come up with it!), they attracted a portion of the hunting and fishing community and then subtly (or none-too-subtly) began feeding their "membership" a raft of leftist horse doo-doo propoganda - as Land Tawney has done all his adult life, in the hopes of picking up some votes for the Democrats.

When it comes right down to it, they aren't a "conservation" organization, they are a political front group. And they're doing it all under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit status.

They're just arm of the Democratic Party.  They are part of the cancer that is pushing us farther and farther to ruin.

Ergo my animosity.



Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 12:17:50 PM
Here's Backcountry Hunters & Anglers Playbook:

With political races increasingly coming down to polar opposite 50/50 percentages, candidates and public policies are won by changing the minds of a very small fraction of the populace one way or the other.

The Democratic Party recognizes the value in incremental wins. They don't play a stupid last minute Hail Mary game like Republicans and Conservatives do.  They are content to pound along yard by yard towards their goal. They play this game better than anyone and they are willing to funnel MILLIONS of dollars through private foundations to entities like BHA to pick up tiny incremental percentages of votes in order to win elections and thereby gain more power and control over the long term.

They realized that the hunting and fishing community has been largely right of center for eons.  Our sub-group has a deep-seated appreciation for hunting and fishing in remote wilderness areas...and was/is ripe for the picking.

By using some slick marketing and an amazing name (I wish I had come up with it!), they attracted a portion of the hunting and fishing community and then subtly (or none-too-subtly) began feeding their "membership" a raft of leftist horse doo-doo propoganda - as Land Tawney has done all his adult life, in the hopes of picking up some votes for the Democrats.

When it comes right down to it, they aren't a "conservation" organization, they are a political front group. And they're doing it all under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit status.

They're just arm of the Democratic Party.  They are part of the cancer that is pushing us farther and farther to ruin.

Ergo my animosity.


insidious
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SuperX on June 24, 2019, 12:36:04 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 12:38:43 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby

I think blinders are in equally short supply  :twocents:


Quote
it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.

This is untrue, there was a faction of the right who advocated this but they've since been silenced by the majority of conservatives and other republicans.


Thanks for bringing this up, it's one more insidious thing BHA does, beat the drums of this idea that the evil right wing is going to sell off public lands to the highest bidder and duping more people afraid of loosing their hunting lands to private companies.  It's simply untrue.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Platensek-po on June 24, 2019, 12:40:29 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby
:yeah:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SuperX on June 24, 2019, 01:04:55 PM
how convenient that the provable acts against your theories only happened 'before' and that now they are no longer happening, while you point to unproven and specious opinions as the obvious truth open to anyone who has eyes.  I bet you think we didn't land on the moon, that obama was born in kenya, and that vaccines cause autism?

 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: idahohuntr on June 24, 2019, 01:08:13 PM
X-Force,

Well, that doesn't really help narrow it down for me.  ;)  I've talked with hundreds (thousands?) of people about a litany of projects that benefit the conservation and hunting of nearly every conceivable huntable and non-huntable species in this state. You're definitely drinking the BHA Kool-Aid if you think BHA supports a wide variety of politicians.  They only support leftists.  Prove me wrong.

Here's Backcountry Hunters & Anglers Playbook:

With political races increasingly coming down to polar opposite 50/50 percentages, candidates and public policies are won by changing the minds of a very small fraction of the populace one way or the other.

The Democratic Party recognizes the value in incremental wins. They don't play a stupid last minute Hail Mary game like Republicans and Conservatives do. They are content to pound along yard by yard towards their goal. They play this game better than anyone and they are willing to funnel MILLIONS of dollars through private foundations to entities like BHA to pick up tiny incremental percentages of votes in order to win elections and thereby gain more power and control over the long term.

They realized that the hunting and fishing community has been largely right of center for eons.  Our sub-group has a deep-seated appreciation for hunting and fishing in remote wilderness areas...and was/is ripe for the picking.

By using some slick marketing and an amazing name (I wish I had come up with it!), they attracted a portion of the hunting and fishing community and then subtly (or none-too-subtly) began feeding their "membership" a raft of leftist horse doo-doo propoganda - as Land Tawney has done all his adult life, in the hopes of picking up some votes for the Democrats.

When it comes right down to it, they aren't a "conservation" organization, they are a political front group. And they're doing it all under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit status.

They're just arm of the Democratic Party.  They are part of the cancer that is pushing us farther and farther to ruin.

Ergo my animosity.
I'm glad we have you to educate all of us on this "information". 

I'm particularly intrigued at how slick BHA is...I mean, they duped one of the more conservative Governors in the US (Brad Little R- Idaho) to speak at their Rendezvous in Boise, ID a few months ago...Donald Trump Jr. is a life member...and we all know what a leftist socialist he is...  :chuckle:

There is an alternative and more simple explanation: BHA isn't some political front group...rather they are committed to protecting backcountry hunting and fishing experiences.  Not everyone who hunts enjoys or uses backcountry and non-motorized areas...so I understand certain groups not aligning with all of BHAs platforms.  It doesn't make them some radical leftist group.

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 24, 2019, 01:09:51 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby

I think blinders are in equally short supply  :twocents:


Quote
it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.

This is untrue, there was a faction of the right who advocated this but they've since been silenced by the majority of conservatives and other republicans.


Thanks for bringing this up, it's one more insidious thing BHA does, beat the drums of this idea that the evil right wing is going to sell off public lands to the highest bidder and duping more people afraid of loosing their hunting lands to private companies.  It's simply untrue.

@KFHunter - I believe this was actually on the Republican 2016 platform.  We'll see what 2020 brings.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 01:14:14 PM
how convenient that the provable acts against your theories only happened 'before' and that now they are no longer happening, while you point to unproven and specious opinions as the obvious truth open to anyone who has eyes.  I bet you think we didn't land on the moon, that obama was born in kenya, and that vaccines cause autism?

 

what do all those strawmen have to do with BHA fear mongering?



Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 01:15:52 PM

I'm glad we have you to educate all of us on this "information". 

I'm particularly intrigued at how slick BHA is...I mean, they duped one of the more conservative Governors in the US (Brad Little R- Idaho) to speak at their Rendezvous in Boise, ID a few months ago...Donald Trump Jr. is a life member...and we all know what a leftist socialist he is...  :chuckle:

There is an alternative and more simple explanation: BHA isn't some political front group...rather they are committed to protecting backcountry hunting and fishing experiences.  Not everyone who hunts enjoys or uses backcountry and non-motorized areas...so I understand certain groups not aligning with all of BHAs platforms.  It doesn't make them some radical leftist group.

You said you didn't belong to BHA and haven't given them any money.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 01:17:39 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby

I think blinders are in equally short supply  :twocents:


Quote
it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.

This is untrue, there was a faction of the right who advocated this but they've since been silenced by the majority of conservatives and other republicans.


Thanks for bringing this up, it's one more insidious thing BHA does, beat the drums of this idea that the evil right wing is going to sell off public lands to the highest bidder and duping more people afraid of loosing their hunting lands to private companies.  It's simply untrue.

@KFhunter - I believe this was actually on the Republican 2016 platform.  We'll see what 2020 brings.

yup, they were sucking up voters jaded with the whole bundy fiasco.   I don't and didn't agree with it then or now. 

It's a dead issue and was a mistake, but he did win the election....
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: bearpaw on June 24, 2019, 02:35:02 PM
X-Force,

Well, that doesn't really help narrow it down for me.  ;)  I've talked with hundreds (thousands?) of people about a litany of projects that benefit the conservation and hunting of nearly every conceivable huntable and non-huntable species in this state. You're definitely drinking the BHA Kool-Aid if you think BHA supports a wide variety of politicians.  They only support leftists.  Prove me wrong.

Here's Backcountry Hunters & Anglers Playbook:

With political races increasingly coming down to polar opposite 50/50 percentages, candidates and public policies are won by changing the minds of a very small fraction of the populace one way or the other.

The Democratic Party recognizes the value in incremental wins. They don't play a stupid last minute Hail Mary game like Republicans and Conservatives do. They are content to pound along yard by yard towards their goal. They play this game better than anyone and they are willing to funnel MILLIONS of dollars through private foundations to entities like BHA to pick up tiny incremental percentages of votes in order to win elections and thereby gain more power and control over the long term.

They realized that the hunting and fishing community has been largely right of center for eons.  Our sub-group has a deep-seated appreciation for hunting and fishing in remote wilderness areas...and was/is ripe for the picking.

By using some slick marketing and an amazing name (I wish I had come up with it!), they attracted a portion of the hunting and fishing community and then subtly (or none-too-subtly) began feeding their "membership" a raft of leftist horse doo-doo propoganda - as Land Tawney has done all his adult life, in the hopes of picking up some votes for the Democrats.

When it comes right down to it, they aren't a "conservation" organization, they are a political front group. And they're doing it all under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit status.

They're just arm of the Democratic Party.  They are part of the cancer that is pushing us farther and farther to ruin.

Ergo my animosity.
I'm glad we have you to educate all of us on this "information". 

I'm particularly intrigued at how slick BHA is...I mean, they duped one of the more conservative Governors in the US (Brad Little R- Idaho) to speak at their Rendezvous in Boise, ID a few months ago...Donald Trump Jr. is a life member...and we all know what a leftist socialist he is...  :chuckle:

There is an alternative and more simple explanation: BHA isn't some political front group...rather they are committed to protecting backcountry hunting and fishing experiences.  Not everyone who hunts enjoys or uses backcountry and non-motorized areas...so I understand certain groups not aligning with all of BHAs platforms.  It doesn't make them some radical leftist group.

This an old argument it has already been shown that the bulk of the money comes from special interest groups who are pushing liberal agendas. Bushcraft and Kfhunter are correct.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jmscon on June 24, 2019, 02:53:08 PM
I wonder...... who is drinking whoís Koolaid?
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on June 24, 2019, 02:59:14 PM
Every time Rinella or BHA or Wolves show up on this site, the worlds supply of tinfoil hats is dangerously depleted.  Isn't there a way to have a discussion about stuff that doesn't end up being reduced to some left versus right conspiracy theory?  These ridiculous claims the right wing has a monopoly on conservation show how ignorant these theories can be - it's republicans who are trying to sell off the federal public land, either to the states or to the highest bidder, not the 'liberals'.  Some of you guys need a different hobby
:yeah:

So I guess we know where you stand on those 3 issues. After accusing others of conspiracy theories; ďridiculous claimsĒ ďignorant theoriesĒ you provided gross generalizations and dismissed the adults have a conversation as ďneeding a different hobbyĒ. Hunting is the hobby and some of us value protecting that. It requires adult discussion and staying involved and educated. If you donít think there are well funded groups attempting to end hunting you arenít paying attention.

Exposing ownership and control of these groups is vital to sportsmen making informed decisions of what groups to support. I would refer some to Aesopís fable of the wolf in sheepís clothing, this is not a new tactic.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jmscon on June 24, 2019, 03:08:52 PM
What I see a lot of people forgetting is there are moderates on both sides of the aisle.. Not every republican is a tea party advocate and not every democrat is an anti gun hsus advocate.
And you know what, the moderates actually talk to each other, and can get things done,  instead of building a brick wall down the aisle.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
We have a bigger badder wall right down the middle of the halls of congress than we do on the southern border.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jmscon on June 24, 2019, 03:35:19 PM
We have a bigger badder wall right down the middle of the halls of congress than we do on the southern border.
Indeed, and the further that wall gets built and the more extreme both sides get the closer we get to a societal collapse.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: idahohuntr on June 24, 2019, 03:39:35 PM
X-Force,

Well, that doesn't really help narrow it down for me.  ;)  I've talked with hundreds (thousands?) of people about a litany of projects that benefit the conservation and hunting of nearly every conceivable huntable and non-huntable species in this state. You're definitely drinking the BHA Kool-Aid if you think BHA supports a wide variety of politicians.  They only support leftists.  Prove me wrong.

Here's Backcountry Hunters & Anglers Playbook:

With political races increasingly coming down to polar opposite 50/50 percentages, candidates and public policies are won by changing the minds of a very small fraction of the populace one way or the other.

The Democratic Party recognizes the value in incremental wins. They don't play a stupid last minute Hail Mary game like Republicans and Conservatives do. They are content to pound along yard by yard towards their goal. They play this game better than anyone and they are willing to funnel MILLIONS of dollars through private foundations to entities like BHA to pick up tiny incremental percentages of votes in order to win elections and thereby gain more power and control over the long term.

They realized that the hunting and fishing community has been largely right of center for eons.  Our sub-group has a deep-seated appreciation for hunting and fishing in remote wilderness areas...and was/is ripe for the picking.

By using some slick marketing and an amazing name (I wish I had come up with it!), they attracted a portion of the hunting and fishing community and then subtly (or none-too-subtly) began feeding their "membership" a raft of leftist horse doo-doo propoganda - as Land Tawney has done all his adult life, in the hopes of picking up some votes for the Democrats.

When it comes right down to it, they aren't a "conservation" organization, they are a political front group. And they're doing it all under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit status.

They're just arm of the Democratic Party.  They are part of the cancer that is pushing us farther and farther to ruin.

Ergo my animosity.
I'm glad we have you to educate all of us on this "information". 

I'm particularly intrigued at how slick BHA is...I mean, they duped one of the more conservative Governors in the US (Brad Little R- Idaho) to speak at their Rendezvous in Boise, ID a few months ago...Donald Trump Jr. is a life member...and we all know what a leftist socialist he is...  :chuckle:

There is an alternative and more simple explanation: BHA isn't some political front group...rather they are committed to protecting backcountry hunting and fishing experiences.  Not everyone who hunts enjoys or uses backcountry and non-motorized areas...so I understand certain groups not aligning with all of BHAs platforms.  It doesn't make them some radical leftist group.

This an old argument it has already been shown that the bulk of the money comes from special interest groups who are pushing liberal agendas. Bushcraft and Kfhunter are correct.
BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Platensek-po on June 24, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
TRump is a republican now?? Man I seem to remember him donating money to democratic candidates in the past. Most notably Hillary Clinton on multiple equations. The problem is that every single person in congress is a millionaire who is supposed to represent the average American.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 24, 2019, 05:27:55 PM

BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Yes.  I agree.  You're discussing this with far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives.  It's as foolish to try to bring them around as it would be if we were on an anti hunting forum.  The last poll we had showed a slight conservative tilt in membership, but BHA is most attractive to hunters and anglers near the middle.   

Don't waste your time and help them derail a thread about Rinella, who is arguably the most well spoken and mainstream public figure that the hunting community has to offer.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jmscon on June 24, 2019, 05:28:56 PM
And 3.......2.......1

















Off-topics
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 06:03:18 PM

BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Yes.  I agree.  You're discussing this with far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives.  It's as foolish to try to bring them around as it would be if we were on an anti hunting forum.  The last poll we had showed a slight conservative tilt in membership, but BHA is most attractive to hunters and anglers near the middle.   

Don't waste your time and help them derail a thread about Rinella, who is arguably the most well spoken and mainstream public figure that the hunting community has to offer.

Am I far right wing?  Are you a radical lefty?  I haven't decided what I am and you probably haven't either so lets lay off the labels eh?
My stance on BHA was stated earlier and has since been mis-characterized. 

Again:
My beef with BHA is they try to hide who they are and what they support while cheerleading "access for all" when in fact they only cheerlead for their specific type of access...foot only.

BHA supports more wilderness, that's fine, but be up front and honest about it and collect in like minded individuals that support more wilderness.  I feel that too many hunters are being duped into supporting a conservation group not knowing where their money is going and to what purpose, thus I encourage people to do their homework first and see what BHA is doing and supporting.  I don't deny that BHA is doing good work, some of that work has been done with HW members' money that doesn't support BHA at all and are very critical of them.   So I applaud BHA for doing those projects like the golden doe, but I cannot support things like the quiet waters initiative in Montana.   

I don't wish to keep the left from hunting, I invite them to try it out but I'd like to educate them that yes while they're fit and capable now perhaps they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by forever limiting various forms of access to public lands by creating more wilderness lest they find themselves no longer able to access once cherished hunting lands.

besides all that I have a problem with making my enemies richer, enabling them to acquire more companies and exert more influence on my dime. 
The same argument can be made about buying Chinese goods so they in turn can build their military up more to threaten us even more and steal more of our technology. 

I do not want one  :twocents: going to line the pockets of people like Chernin group.


I've also said Steve Rinella is a great advocate for hunters and has an uncanny ability to speak to those on the left, he's done wonders for the hunting community and I don't discredit that at all. 

Yet there's those here on HW that continually mis-characterize what I say and twist it labeling me a right wing wacko.

If a guy is a lefty that hunts and wants more wilderness then BHA is probably a good fit for them and I encourage them to join it if they want, maybe they can get more golden doe projects done that we can all agree on. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 24, 2019, 06:13:59 PM

Am I far right wing? 

Yet there's those here on HW that continually mis-characterize what I say and twist it labeling me a right wing wacko.


Someone erased your post about Ann Coulter and her theory... that was pretty much the definition of Right Wing Whacko jargon
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: idahohuntr on June 24, 2019, 06:52:56 PM

BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Yes.  I agree.  You're discussing this with far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives.  It's as foolish to try to bring them around as it would be if we were on an anti hunting forum.  The last poll we had showed a slight conservative tilt in membership, but BHA is most attractive to hunters and anglers near the middle.   

Don't waste your time and help them derail a thread about Rinella, who is arguably the most well spoken and mainstream public figure that the hunting community has to offer.
Good point...I'll go back to checking ID draw results every few minutes  :chuckle:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 07:40:41 PM

Someone erased your post about Ann Coulter and her theory... that was pretty much the definition of Right Wing Whacko jargon

I did, realized it was a thread jack.   I didn't make the theory, Ann Coulter did. 
I was responding to the idea of a societal collapse, and I agree it's going to happen, it always does.


Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 07:46:23 PM

BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Yes.  I agree.  You're discussing this with far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives.  It's as foolish to try to bring them around as it would be if we were on an anti hunting forum.  The last poll we had showed a slight conservative tilt in membership, but BHA is most attractive to hunters and anglers near the middle.   

Don't waste your time and help them derail a thread about Rinella, who is arguably the most well spoken and mainstream public figure that the hunting community has to offer.
Good point...I'll go back to checking ID draw results every few minutes  :chuckle:

There's one thing we agree on, this is a waste of time. 



Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 24, 2019, 08:22:21 PM
@bushcraft hard to jump fully onboard with your logic.  You generally advocate that everyone should support the NRA, who has a long history of supporting Democrat candidates.

I donít disagree about your statement regarding democrats for the most part, but your logic of which non profits to support because of the politicians they support doesnít really add up. :twocents:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Special T on June 24, 2019, 08:26:57 PM
@bushcraft hard to jump fully onboard with your logic.  You generally advocate that everyone should support the NRA, who has a long history of supporting Democrat candidates.

I donít disagree about your statement regarding democrats for the most part, but your logic of which non profits to support because of the politicians they support doesnít really add up.
There are Democrats with good NRA ratings... there just an endangered species...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: SuperX on June 25, 2019, 07:04:14 AM
@bushcraft hard to jump fully onboard with your logic.  You generally advocate that everyone should support the NRA, who has a long history of supporting Democrat candidates.

I donít disagree about your statement regarding democrats for the most part, but your logic of which non profits to support because of the politicians they support doesnít really add up.
There are Democrats with good NRA ratings... there just an endangered species...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Same with democrats who hunt and fish.  Let's demonize them so they stop supporting guns and hunting  >:(
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Special T on June 25, 2019, 07:26:04 AM
@bushcraft hard to jump fully onboard with your logic.  You generally advocate that everyone should support the NRA, who has a long history of supporting Democrat candidates.

I donít disagree about your statement regarding democrats for the most part, but your logic of which non profits to support because of the politicians they support doesnít really add up.
There are Democrats with good NRA ratings... there just an endangered species...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Same with democrats who hunt and fish.  Let's demonize them so they stop supporting guns and hunting  >:(
Well they are usually the same ones, as far as I can tell. I would also lay down the wager that the party would love to get rid of these Mavericks. They have already done it to a couple of them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 08:14:34 AM
@bushcraft hard to jump fully onboard with your logic.  You generally advocate that everyone should support the NRA, who has a long history of supporting Democrat candidates.

I donít disagree about your statement regarding democrats for the most part, but your logic of which non profits to support because of the politicians they support doesnít really add up. :twocents:

The asymmetric difference between the NRA and BHA is that the former is willing to support candidates on both sides of the aisle that are pro-2A, whereas BHA only forks over rhetoric and helps funnel campaign cash to progressive liberal candidates. 

Why isn't BHA rolling out wheelbarrow loads of support for GOP and Conservative candidates when the preponderance of hunters and anglers that use and love public backcountry are unquestionably right of center?  Answer: Because they're just a front group for the Democratic Party to garner more votes as I've already explained.  Follow the money trail.  Actions always betray what words try to portray.

We have two Democrats in this state that are vehemently pro-hunting and pro-2A. One in the Senate and one in the House.  We (sportsmen) have no stronger allies in our state's legislature when it comes to the issues important to us. Yes, they vote a little wonky on the rest of the issues, but are basically middle of the road moderates. They trip up the left's agenda all the time and the Democratic Party higher-ups absolutely HATE them for it and desperately wants to figure out how to run socialist Democrat challengers against them that can win both the primary and general.  Fortunately for us, they haven't yet found lefty candidates that are strong enough to do it.

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 08:38:20 AM

BHA is comprised of bi-partisan hunters and anglers...probably among the most hard-core hunters in the country.  Moderates from both parties are generally very supportive of them...and the support of hunters and bi-partisan politicians isn't the result of slick ads...its because they are on the right side of important policy issues when it comes to public lands and hunting.   
Yes.  I agree.  You're discussing this with far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives.  It's as foolish to try to bring them around as it would be if we were on an anti hunting forum.  The last poll we had showed a slight conservative tilt in membership, but BHA is most attractive to hunters and anglers near the middle.   

Don't waste your time and help them derail a thread about Rinella, who is arguably the most well spoken and mainstream public figure that the hunting community has to offer.

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

It's both hilarious and telling that you label us as "far right wing, fiercely partisan conservatives"...as if that's a bad thing.

We're actually just perfectly normal Americans with fiscally and socially responsible conservative values who utterly despise the progressive liberal socialist democrat ilk and their cancerously ruinous philosophies and legislative policies...that you evidently favor.

The United States of America became - and continues to be (in spite of the Democratic Party's ongoing efforts), the greatest nation on earth precisely because of the values we "fierce conservatives" hold dear.


Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2019, 08:39:29 AM
@Bushcraft - do you have a list of politicians they've donated to?  I couldn't find it.  I'm not really arguing here, I'm just looking for more information.  I try to be very careful about where I spend my money, but I also try to make sure I'm doing my own research.

Thanks in advance

Curtis
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 08:46:57 AM
@Bushcraft - do you have a list of politicians they've donated to?  I couldn't find it.  I'm not really arguing here, I'm just looking for more information.  I try to be very careful about where I spend my money, but I also try to make sure I'm doing my own research.

Thanks in advance

Curtis

No problem at all Curtis.  I appreciate you wanting to know the facts.

Here's a link that will get you started: https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 09:08:05 AM
@Bushcraft - do you have a list of politicians they've donated to?  I couldn't find it.

That's because (AS I HAVE CONTINOUSLY POINTED IN EVERY BHA THREAD ON THIS FORUM) they can't donate to politicians. Per the IRS:

"Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.  Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."

At this point, this is willful ignorance or intentional disregard for the facts consistently presented to this community regarding BHA. You don't like them- fine. You don't want to be a member- fine. but we are entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts. It is exhausting and frustrating to have to constantly retread this BS. and each time this who BHA/Land Tawney/Green Decoy thing comes up and I try to provide some basic clarifications of the FACTS, people with an axe to grind just gloss over it and cling harder to their own opinion or idea of the truth.


You know if this is how we treat the advocates (like Rinella) who are the people actually increasing hunting's relevancy, encouraging new hunters, and putting the best image of our sport out into the world, maybe we don't deserve them. This tiny, binary campfire that requires everyone to be in lockstep (by screaming and shouting down and calling people who don't agreee on everything the enemy of the sport) all the time will be the death of this sport long before the external factors destroy us by a thousand cuts. We are so quick to create divisions amongst ourselves and our allies. Calling people (say a new hunter) stupid sheep who are the enemy of hunting and/or socialists dedicated to the death of hunting and America for joining BHA is a quick way to push someone out of this lifestyle instead of bringing them further in. Don't be so toxic just because you have a different opinion or perspective, it will not help. Whole lot of people seemed to have ignored the technique for how you catch more flies and instead just roll out with vinegar. all. the. time.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 09:40:41 AM
@Bushcraft - do you have a list of politicians they've donated to?  I couldn't find it.

That's because (AS I HAVE CONTINOUSLY POINTED IN EVERY BHA THREAD ON THIS FORUM) they can't donate to politicians. Per the IRS:

"Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.  Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."

At this point, this is willful ignorance or intentional disregard for the facts consistently presented to this community regarding BHA. You don't like them- fine. You don't want to be a member- fine. but we are entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts. It is exhausting and frustrating to have to constantly retread this BS. and each time this who BHA/Land Tawney/Green Decoy thing comes up and I try to provide some basic clarifications of the FACTS, people with an axe to grind just gloss over it and cling harder to their own opinion or idea of the truth.


You know if this is how we treat the advocates (like Rinella) who are the people actually increasing hunting's relevancy, encouraging new hunters, and putting the best image of our sport out into the world, maybe we don't deserve them. This tiny, binary campfire that requires everyone to be in lockstep (by screaming and shouting down and calling people who don't agreee on everything the enemy of the sport) all the time will be the death of this sport long before the external factors destroy us by a thousand cuts. We are so quick to create divisions amongst ourselves and our allies. Calling people (say a new hunter) stupid sheep who are the enemy of hunting and/or socialists dedicated to the death of hunting and America for joining BHA is a quick way to push someone out of this lifestyle instead of bringing them further in. Don't be so toxic just because you have a different opinion or perspective, it will not help. Whole lot of people seemed to have ignored the technique for how you catch more flies and instead just roll out with vinegar. all. the. time.

I agree with you for the most part and am a big fan of Rinella, but you're glossing over the point that I too end up having to state every time BHA squabbles come up.  Obviously, or perhaps not to some people, 501(c)3 orgs can't make direct contributions to political candidates. But, the funds that flow into the employees checking accounts of those orgs can absolutely be given to whoever they want, within the maximum allowable contribution constraints.  Pretty darn sure Land Tawney and his ilk aren't giving a dime to conservative politicians. 

Furthermore. it's not just about contribution money. 501(c)3 orgs can and do engage in soft-dollar lobbying. They can absolutely make their members aware of related arms-length non-profits like PACs. They can publicly question politicians and/or policies.  They can "soft-lobby" legislators by expressing their concerns and positions on legislation they agree or disagree with. Are they functioning like a 501(c)4 that can expressly endorse, or a 527 that can directly contribute? No, but...and particularly with the advent of social media...they can definitely push their bias to influence voters...which is why they exist in the first place.   BHA's national and state chapter Facebook accounts are/were heavily biased with lots of unchecked anti-GOP rhetoric, particularly prior, during and after the last general election. Whenever people spoke out or asked inconvenient questions, they were immediately banned or blocked.  Can't have their membership knowing uncomfortable facts about its leadership's left-wing political bias.  It's bad for business.  ;)

So again...for the umpteenth time...there are far better alternatives that sportsmen can and should support. BHA would be last on the list...if at all. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 10:20:14 AM
But, the funds that flow into the employees checking accounts of those orgs can absolutely be given to whoever they want, within the maximum allowable contribution constraints.  Pretty darn sure Land Tawney and his ilk aren't giving a dime to conservative politicians. 

They can "soft-lobby" legislators by expressing their concerns and positions on legislation they agree or disagree with. Are they functioning like a 501(c)4 that can expressly endorse, or a 527 that can directly contribute? No, but...


Both of those points maybe true. (I have no idea how Land Tawney or any BHA employee spends their money but I doubt anyone else here does either) but that is still conflating 2 disparate ideas to say that "BHA donates to a list of bad politicians" and then say well, some employees probably donate a portion of their paycheck to bad politicians. Yeah that might be true, but it is still an unverified assumption and is not representative of the actual operations of the organizations finances as a 501c3. Yes they absolutely soft lobby, but that still doesn't mean they are donating to politicians.

I think a more effective tactic to pull people away from BHA than calling them all anti-hunters/easily duped idiots/ libruls AND that the organization is out to take away our guns and kill hunting, would be to point out how much more effective another organization might be doing in on the ground conservation work. Because honestly, BHA is great at social media and pint nights, but I don't see them helping put antelopes on the ground in WA (for example). Leading with that instead of an attack on BHA is more effective and sidesteps the confrontational or combative nature of trying to tear another org down.



Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Special T on June 25, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
But, the funds that flow into the employees checking accounts of those orgs can absolutely be given to whoever they want, within the maximum allowable contribution constraints.  Pretty darn sure Land Tawney and his ilk aren't giving a dime to conservative politicians. 

They can "soft-lobby" legislators by expressing their concerns and positions on legislation they agree or disagree with. Are they functioning like a 501(c)4 that can expressly endorse, or a 527 that can directly contribute? No, but...


Both of those points maybe true. (I have no idea how Land Tawney or any BHA employee spends their money but I doubt anyone else here does either) but that is still conflating 2 disparate ideas to say that "BHA donates to a list of bad politicians" and then say well, some employees probably donate a portion of their paycheck to bad politicians. Yeah that might be true, but it is still an unverified assumption and is not representative of the actual operations of the organizations finances as a 501c3. Yes they absolutely soft lobby, but that still doesn't mean they are donating to politicians.

I think a more effective tactic to pull people away from BHA than calling them all anti-hunters/easily duped idiots/ libruls AND that the organization is out to take away our guns and kill hunting, would be to point out how much more effective another organization might be doing in on the ground conservation work. Because honestly, BHA is great at social media and pint nights, but I don't see them helping put antelopes on the ground in WA (for example). Leading with that instead of an attack on BHA is more effective and sidesteps the confrontational or combative nature of trying to tear another org down.

Well said
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 10:53:23 AM
Rinella recently played up this whole "green decoy" thing on one of his recent podcasts. He was speaking at a BHA function but I quite enjoyed it.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on June 25, 2019, 01:12:27 PM
I think a more effective tactic to pull people away from BHA than calling them all anti-hunters/easily duped idiots/ libruls AND that the organization is out to take away our guns and kill hunting, would be to point out how much more effective another organization might be doing in on the ground conservation work. Because honestly, BHA is great at social media and pint nights, but I don't see them helping put antelopes on the ground in WA (for example). Leading with that instead of an attack on BHA is more effective and sidesteps the confrontational or combative nature of trying to tear another org down.

A good point. I have been a member of close to a dozen orgs that are supposed to support hunting and wildlife. The only one that returned my calls and emails about volunteering was Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. They also put the funds to use securing access and protecting habitat. RMEF is the only one I currently support, or would recommend to those looking to help wildlife. 10% of this state is wilderness and no one is threatening that... however there is a proposed 5 square mile solar installation that will fence elk, deer and every other animal out of their winter range north of Ellensburg. Owned by EDF (the French government utility) and run from California to supply power to California... There are real threats to what we love all around and as much as we all disagree from time to time if we donít work together we all might as well sell our rifles and buy golf clubs.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 01:16:05 PM
But, the funds that flow into the employees checking accounts of those orgs can absolutely be given to whoever they want, within the maximum allowable contribution constraints.  Pretty darn sure Land Tawney and his ilk aren't giving a dime to conservative politicians. 

They can "soft-lobby" legislators by expressing their concerns and positions on legislation they agree or disagree with. Are they functioning like a 501(c)4 that can expressly endorse, or a 527 that can directly contribute? No, but...


Both of those points maybe true. (I have no idea how Land Tawney or any BHA employee spends their money but I doubt anyone else here does either) but that is still conflating 2 disparate ideas to say that "BHA donates to a list of bad politicians" and then say well, some employees probably donate a portion of their paycheck to bad politicians. Yeah that might be true, but it is still an unverified assumption and is not representative of the actual operations of the organizations finances as a 501c3. Yes they absolutely soft lobby, but that still doesn't mean they are donating to politicians.

I think a more effective tactic to pull people away from BHA than calling them all anti-hunters/easily duped idiots/ libruls AND that the organization is out to take away our guns and kill hunting, would be to point out how much more effective another organization might be doing in on the ground conservation work. Because honestly, BHA is great at social media and pint nights, but I don't see them helping put antelopes on the ground in WA (for example). Leading with that instead of an attack on BHA is more effective and sidesteps the confrontational or combative nature of trying to tear another org down.

Why would BHA be involved in putting antelope back on Washington? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with Backcountry hunting and angling.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 01:49:14 PM

Why would BHA be involved in putting antelope back on Washington? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with Backcountry hunting and angling.


Neither does standing around a bar on pint nights. Or attending storytelling events in downtown Seattle.

I said "for example" as in, this is one such activity that people interested in conservation may want to engage in. There are many others. BHA doesn't offer a deep inventory of boots on the ground, field conservation work. So my point was instead of attacking BHA, why not reach out to some members and give them opportunity to do some field work and they might join other conservation orgs
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: idahohuntr on June 25, 2019, 02:07:07 PM

Why would BHA be involved in putting antelope back on Washington? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with Backcountry hunting and angling.


Neither does standing around a bar on pint nights. Or attending storytelling events in downtown Seattle.

I said "for example" as in, this is one such activity that people interested in conservation may want to engage in. There are many others. BHA doesn't offer a deep inventory of boots on the ground, field conservation work. So my point was instead of attacking BHA, why not reach out to some members and give them opportunity to do some field work and they might join other conservation orgs
Your advice is sound for those hellbent on attacking BHA - but for more moderate sportsman it is worth noting that we need good folks engaged in on the ground work and we need folks engaged on the policy and legislative front.  BHA focuses more heavily on the latter - and frankly - that can sometimes be far more important than on the ground local projects.  If pint nights and storytelling are needed to grow the base and increase their influence on the Hill as they fight bad policy like federal land transfers...well, pass me a pint!
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 02:29:40 PM
For a guy that cries "Habitat! Habitat! Habitat!" all the time, I'm surprised that you'd say legislative efforts are more important than actual boots on the ground projects.


Or perhaps you're just carrying water for a .org (that you say you don't belong too) that doesn't actually do much other than legitimize leftist environmental nazi legislative efforts, they can say: "we even have the support of hunters through BHA"


Federal land transfer's are dead. kaput.  no one is discussing it and if a small faction on the right is discussing it they have no traction or pull. 
Seems BHA is irrelevant if all they can do is decry federal land transfers  :dunno:





Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 03:02:41 PM
This is why I hate getting involved in this conversation. Because I try to present a balanced, compromising perspective and then have to start flagging down stuff from both sides

-I think referring to people/policy as "leftists environmental nazi" is exactly the kind of binary, exclusionary attitude and language I was referring to as a way to force people on the fence further away from hunting as a sport, lifestyle or culture. Makes our campfire smaller, not bigger when we need to be bringing more people in, even if we only agree on 80% of things. Imagine a brand new adult hunter who started out listening to some Meateater Podcast and came here looking for a community, maybe got involved hunting through a BHA university chapter. This is how we greet them- attacks and assumptions about individuals we don't know

-Regarding BHA and pint nights/social media- I never said it was a bad thing. It's actually a great thing when we need pressure for LWCF for example to have an engaged and large base.

-I explicitly was referring to orgs/people hellbent on attacking BHA (I made the honey vinegar reference previously). I don't think moderate sportsman are confused by BHA's mission, or its shortcomings. I would be one of them

-Regarding "growing the base" BHA does that incredibly well but falls short on some of the more "meat and potatos" side of conservation for the average member. If we, as a hunting and angling population, can't find a way to offer that up better to young, active, new hunters then we will lose some important long games. I frequently refer to BHA as the dog that caught the tire....whats next?  Thats a question for BHA and other conservation orgs to think about

-finally, to return this all to the Rinella/FL place it started. I have to imagine it must get exhausting to have made a career out of the thing you love, to put so much energy into promoting this lifestyle and its relevance in the modern world and then to constantly be attacked as a anti-hunter/ ally of the enemy. Some people aren't just happy to watch someone fall, they want to throw a stick out there just to prove how right they are. I sure wouldn't want to be out in front of people just waiting to knife me in the back. It's not about being a fanboy of his, its about wanting people to have a great advocate for hunting in the public sphere
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 03:09:46 PM
If BHA was clear about their mission and source of their funding we wouldn't have a problem with it.  Like I've said numerous times if a lefty wants to hunt great!  I'm inclusionary with that, but don't go create a shell of a .org group and pretend to be something its not in a backhanded effort to suck in hunters that don't necessarily want all those legislative efforts done on their behalf. 


We've went round and round and round on this, no one can tell me the funds BHA gets doesn't have strings leading back to environmental nazi groups. 
I don't buy it, all money comes with strings attached to it.

Furthermore no one has been able to prove Green Decoy's assertions aren't true; they attack the green decoy itself (sleazy lawyers IDH says) but they haven't discredited the veracity of the information provided. 

They who are supporting BHA on HW is actually trying to convince me and others here that all that money BHA gets comes free from strings  :chuckle:  :chuckle:  :chuckle:

 

Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: idahohuntr on June 25, 2019, 03:37:57 PM
This is why I hate getting involved in this conversation. Because I try to present a balanced, compromising perspective and then have to start flagging down stuff from both sides

-I think referring to people/policy as "leftists environmental nazi" is exactly the kind of binary, exclusionary attitude and language I was referring to as a way to force people on the fence further away from hunting as a sport, lifestyle or culture. Makes our campfire smaller, not bigger when we need to be bringing more people in, even if we only agree on 80% of things. Imagine a brand new adult hunter who started out listening to some Meateater Podcast and came here looking for a community, maybe got involved hunting through a BHA university chapter. This is how we greet them- attacks and assumptions about individuals we don't know

-Regarding BHA and pint nights/social media- I never said it was a bad thing. It's actually a great thing when we need pressure for LWCF for example to have an engaged and large base.

-I explicitly was referring to orgs/people hellbent on attacking BHA (I made the honey vinegar reference previously). I don't think moderate sportsman are confused by BHA's mission, or its shortcomings. I would be one of them

-Regarding "growing the base" BHA does that incredibly well but falls short on some of the more "meat and potatos" side of conservation for the average member. If we, as a hunting and angling population, can't find a way to offer that up better to young, active, new hunters then we will lose some important long games. I frequently refer to BHA as the dog that caught the tire....whats next?  Thats a question for BHA and other conservation orgs to think about

-finally, to return this all to the Rinella/FL place it started. I have to imagine it must get exhausting to have made a career out of the thing you love, to put so much energy into promoting this lifestyle and its relevance in the modern world and then to constantly be attacked as a anti-hunter/ ally of the enemy. Some people aren't just happy to watch someone fall, they want to throw a stick out there just to prove how right they are. I sure wouldn't want to be out in front of people just waiting to knife me in the back. It's not about being a fanboy of his, its about wanting people to have a great advocate for hunting in the public sphere
Your points were all good...I wasn't trying to put you on defense...my intent was to complement what you said by making sure others didn't lose sight of the importance of the policy/legislative side of things.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 03:42:11 PM
If BHA was clear about their mission and source of their funding we wouldn't have a problem with it.  Like I've said numerous times if a lefty wants to hunt great!  I'm inclusionary with that, but don't go create a shell of a .org group and pretend to be something its not in a backhanded effort to suck in hunters that don't necessarily want all those legislative efforts done on their behalf. 


We've went round and round and round on this, no one can tell me the funds BHA gets doesn't have strings leading back to environmental nazi groups. 
I don't buy it, all money comes with strings attached to it.

Furthermore no one has been able to prove Green Decoy's assertions aren't true; they attack the green decoy itself (sleazy lawyers IDH says) but they haven't discredited the veracity of the information provided. 

They who are supporting BHA on HW is actually trying to convince me and others here that all that money BHA gets comes free from strings  :chuckle:  :chuckle:  :chuckle:

I'm not going to retype this for you, from the last time:

"and as far the they tax reporting for BHA goes, their primary funding is from one line item "contributions/grants" most of the time funds/trusts, non-profits don't do blank contributions they give out money through grant cycles/requests."

and

"being awarded a grant is not the same as money laundering. if a organization that does veteran rehab/therpy by taking them hunting or fishing wins a grant from a pubic health non-profit, it doesn't mean they "laundered the money into a radical militant group" it means the veteran group wrote a proposal that the grant issuing body believes falls within the purview of the applications and awards."

I've worked in NGO's and my wife currently does. If her org gives money to a tribe for a public health program, their professional relationship may run deep, but the operational/organizational relationship does not allow her to dictate the tribe's affairs or vice versa. They simply have oversight over the aspect of the program funded by the grant to ensure it is being spent correctly or with the right results. If SCI were to win a grant for antelope reintroduction from sierra club, it doesn't make SCI a puppet of the sierra club beholden to their every whim and direction.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: full choke on June 25, 2019, 04:06:54 PM
I love my First lite llano and Chama tops. Well, at least for as long as they last. They are super comfortable, but very fragile. I liked my Uncomphagre as well- but eventually sold it and went Sitka for puffy. Maybe Meateater can standardize First Lite sizing so you don't need an extra small of one item, and a XL T for the next layer...
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 05:07:28 PM

Why would BHA be involved in putting antelope back on Washington? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with Backcountry hunting and angling.


Neither does standing around a bar on pint nights. Or attending storytelling events in downtown Seattle.

I said "for example" as in, this is one such activity that people interested in conservation may want to engage in. There are many others. BHA doesn't offer a deep inventory of boots on the ground, field conservation work. So my point was instead of attacking BHA, why not reach out to some members and give them opportunity to do some field work and they might join other conservation orgs

They're a niche group not an all encompassing conservation agency. Why do they need to be all things to all people? Why can't Backcountry hunters and anglers focus on Backcountry hunters and englers? Theyre goal is preservation amd expansion of access to recreation in the wilderness, I don't think boots on the ground is as important to that goal as legislative lobbying is.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 05:36:08 PM

They're a niche group not an all encompassing conservation agency. Why do they need to be all things to all people? Why can't Backcountry hunters and anglers focus on Backcountry hunters and englers? Theyre goal is preservation amd expansion of access to recreation in the wilderness,

Seriously? That's not the end-all be-all of BHA. Even the mission statement isn't that narrow:

"Backcountry Hunters & Anglers seeks to ensure North America's outdoor heritage of hunting and fishing in a natural setting, through education and work on behalf of wild public lands and waters."

That leaves tons of room for things such as boots on ground conservation and plenty besides just wilderness areas. They hardly present themselves as niche- they refer to themselves as the voice for public lands, waters and wildlife. And when I say they, I include myself as a member too
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 05:45:43 PM
If BHA was clear about their mission and source of their funding we wouldn't have a problem with it.  Like I've said numerous times if a lefty wants to hunt great!  I'm inclusionary with that, but don't go create a shell of a .org group and pretend to be something its not in a backhanded effort to suck in hunters that don't necessarily want all those legislative efforts done on their behalf. 


We've went round and round and round on this, no one can tell me the funds BHA gets doesn't have strings leading back to environmental nazi groups. 
I don't buy it, all money comes with strings attached to it.

Furthermore no one has been able to prove Green Decoy's assertions aren't true; they attack the green decoy itself (sleazy lawyers IDH says) but they haven't discredited the veracity of the information provided. 

They who are supporting BHA on HW is actually trying to convince me and others here that all that money BHA gets comes free from strings  :chuckle:  :chuckle:  :chuckle:

I'm not going to retype this for you, from the last time:

"and as far the they tax reporting for BHA goes, their primary funding is from one line item "contributions/grants" most of the time funds/trusts, non-profits don't do blank contributions they give out money through grant cycles/requests."

and

"being awarded a grant is not the same as money laundering. if a organization that does veteran rehab/therpy by taking them hunting or fishing wins a grant from a pubic health non-profit, it doesn't mean they "laundered the money into a radical militant group" it means the veteran group wrote a proposal that the grant issuing body believes falls within the purview of the applications and awards."

I've worked in NGO's and my wife currently does. If her org gives money to a tribe for a public health program, their professional relationship may run deep, but the operational/organizational relationship does not allow her to dictate the tribe's affairs or vice versa. They simply have oversight over the aspect of the program funded by the grant to ensure it is being spent correctly or with the right results. If SCI were to win a grant for antelope reintroduction from sierra club, it doesn't make SCI a puppet of the sierra club beholden to their every whim and direction.

Thanks, I must have missed that last time. 

Maybe I should restate it in different words....Sierra Club et. al. would not donate or grant money to BHA if they didn't align physiologically in some way, Sierra Club etc is still beholden to their membership.

example: If Sierra Club donated or granted money to deplorables.org... there'd be hell to pay and they'd loose membership, much like RMEF felt immediate and long lasting pain for not taking a stance on the wolf issue. 


I never said BHA was a money laundering ord or that they had to do the bidding of its donors just because they gave em some cash.  BHA's alignment with its donors is the push for more wilderness, I've already said if a hunter wants that by all means, push for wilderness, join BHA. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 05:48:29 PM
If BHA was clear about their mission and source of their funding we wouldn't have a problem with it.  Like I've said numerous times if a lefty wants to hunt great!  I'm inclusionary with that, but don't go create a shell of a .org group and pretend to be something its not in a backhanded effort to suck in hunters that don't necessarily want all those legislative efforts done on their behalf. 


We've went round and round and round on this, no one can tell me the funds BHA gets doesn't have strings leading back to environmental nazi groups. 
I don't buy it, all money comes with strings attached to it.

Furthermore no one has been able to prove Green Decoy's assertions aren't true; they attack the green decoy itself (sleazy lawyers IDH says) but they haven't discredited the veracity of the information provided. 

They who are supporting BHA on HW is actually trying to convince me and others here that all that money BHA gets comes free from strings  :chuckle:  :chuckle:  :chuckle:

I'm not going to retype this for you, from the last time:

"and as far the they tax reporting for BHA goes, their primary funding is from one line item "contributions/grants" most of the time funds/trusts, non-profits don't do blank contributions they give out money through grant cycles/requests."

and

"being awarded a grant is not the same as money laundering. if a organization that does veteran rehab/therpy by taking them hunting or fishing wins a grant from a pubic health non-profit, it doesn't mean they "laundered the money into a radical militant group" it means the veteran group wrote a proposal that the grant issuing body believes falls within the purview of the applications and awards."

I've worked in NGO's and my wife currently does. If her org gives money to a tribe for a public health program, their professional relationship may run deep, but the operational/organizational relationship does not allow her to dictate the tribe's affairs or vice versa. They simply have oversight over the aspect of the program funded by the grant to ensure it is being spent correctly or with the right results. If SCI were to win a grant for antelope reintroduction from sierra club, it doesn't make SCI a puppet of the sierra club beholden to their every whim and direction.

Alright...I guess we're down to using our professional backgrounds as a form of validity verification.

I've had C-suite level finance and operation positions, own and operate my own company, pushed through many-million dollar military contracts, sat across the table from many state and federal legislators, been VP and President of a number of different non-profits and have been a sitting board member and contributing member of several operational committees of one of the largest and most influential hunting advocacy and wildlife conservation 501(c)3 and (c)4 orgs on the planet for several years now.  If you want to talk high level finance, organizational governance and how politics actually works behind the scenes...I'm your guy.  ;)

And so, while your statement is theoretically correct from one perspective, I humbly submit that the picture you've painted is somewhat naÔvely rosy in the sense that it only paints one possibility when it comes to possible use and intent of funding flows, and the "strings" relating to that funding.  Yes, many non-profits petition for grants to obtain their "revenue".  Let's call that asking or "pulling" funds.

Even when it's pulled benefactors writing large checks ALWAYS have strings attached, written or inferred.

On the other hand, funding can very easily be "pushed" through to one or more non-profits (so they can engage in soft-lobbying) through a series of layers of other shell non-profits in order to disguise or hide who really wants an agenda pushed.  And that's why and how BHA and their ilk exist.  The funding "pushers" want more votes for the donkey party.  That's it. It's just that simple. It's not genius, or smart, difficult, or novel. It's stupid easy to pull off if you have the means. 

Don't think so???

First, review their primary funding sources.  Wyss Foundation. Wilburforce Foundation. New Venture Fund. Western Conservation Foundation. Packard Foundation. Hewlett Foundation. Pew Charitable Trusts.

All of these are controlled by very left-leaning enviro-whackos. You know, the sort that desperately want politicians like Jay Inslee, Bob Ferguson, Obama, Hillary, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, AOC and their ilk in power.

Second, Land Tawny, President and CEO of BHA, is also a leftist operative who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) with an equally-deceptive name, Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund (MHA), which, spent $1.1 MILLION against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester (you know, the lard ass that doesn't hunt and does whatever Obama, Pelosi and Reid have told him to do so he can keep the Democratic lobbying graving train flowing so he can stay in office and retain his vote). MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group.

Then... (AND HERE'S THE KEY FOLKS!!!  :hello: ), ask yourself why BHA doesn't have funding sources from the conservative or libertarian side of the political spectrum or hunting and angling consortiums.

Hmmm.  :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Seriously, connecting the dots really ain't all that hard folks.  ;)
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: cbond3318 on June 25, 2019, 06:42:27 PM
The Green Decoy campaign is getting pretty flimsy.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 07:00:59 PM
The Green Decoy campaign is getting pretty flimsy.

Did green decoy give false information against BHA?


That would be libel and subject to a lawsuit.

libel
1) the material is untrue.
2) the material is published
3) the false material is harmful

If those three things are met, then BHA has a big fat payout due to them from green decoy. 



So please elaborate how Green Decoy is wrong about the information published?   
I'm not defending green decoy as an entity, they probably are sleazy lawyers, but I would like to know how the information provided is untrue. 


Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: cbond3318 on June 25, 2019, 07:17:27 PM
The Green Decoy campaign is getting pretty flimsy.

Did green decoy give false information against BHA?


That would be libel and subject to a lawsuit.

libel
1) the material is untrue.
2) the material is published
3) the false material is harmful

If those three things are met, then BHA has a big fat payout due to them from green decoy. 



So please elaborate how Green Decoy is wrong about the information published?   
I'm not defending green decoy as an entity, they probably are sleazy lawyers, but I would like to know how the information provided is untrue.


You misunderstood. The Green Decoy info that is continually referenced over and over is being stripped of impact by BHAís actions. It was a stretch to assert BHA as having ill intentions when it came out and it is now a leap of length years later. Itís getting flimsy.

Iíve been down this topic in length and this is as far as Iíll go this time. Have a good evening.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: baker5150 on June 25, 2019, 07:30:41 PM

They're a niche group not an all encompassing conservation agency. Why do they need to be all things to all people? Why can't Backcountry hunters and anglers focus on Backcountry hunters and englers? Theyre goal is preservation amd expansion of access to recreation in the wilderness,

Seriously? That's not the end-all be-all of BHA. Even the mission statement isn't that narrow:

"Backcountry Hunters & Anglers seeks to ensure North America's outdoor heritage of hunting and fishing in a natural setting, through education and work on behalf of wild public lands and waters."

That leaves tons of room for things such as boots on ground conservation and plenty besides just wilderness areas. They hardly present themselves as niche- they refer to themselves as the voice for public lands, waters and wildlife. And when I say they, I include myself as a member too

This should be noted as well....from their vision statement

ďItís time for national conservation groups from all corners of the continent to set aside differences in philosophy or politics. Itís time to shake hands. Itís time to get something done.Ē

I donít read much into this statement, but it certainly asserts that they are open and willing to working with groups (and probably do) that would otherwise have a conflicting agenda or mission to that of a traditional hunting or fishing conservation group. 
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: full choke on June 25, 2019, 07:36:45 PM
Maybe the Meateater crew will push First Lite into a waterfowling series of clothing? That would be kinda cool. :tup:

Nevermind. Mods, feel free to remove this. I don't want to thread-jack...
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: dwils233 on June 25, 2019, 07:45:30 PM
I think most people, even those who like first lite, are concerned about durability so waders would scare me. I do think the new brush pant is a great idea if it can take abuse. Performance upland gear is sorely lacking
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: X-Force on June 25, 2019, 09:20:46 PM

Alright...I guess we're down to using our professional backgrounds as a form of validity verification.

I've had C-suite level finance and operation positions, own and operate my own company, pushed through many-million dollar military contracts, sat across the table from many state and federal legislators, been VP and President of a number of different non-profits and have been a sitting board member and contributing member of several operational committees of one of the largest and most influential hunting advocacy and wildlife conservation 501(c)3 and (c)4 orgs on the planet for several years now.  If you want to talk high level finance, organizational governance and how politics actually works behind the scenes...I'm your guy.  ;)


The best part is you baulked when I referred to you as elitist!

Well at least you admit to it now...

Keep talking down to people and trying to convince them that you have all the answers. Keep preaching to the choir.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: jackelope on June 25, 2019, 09:36:23 PM
Did someone say ... habitat??

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/71bcc9bc7c543f2695e0f8c45e28e515.jpg)
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 25, 2019, 09:57:22 PM
Did someone say ... habitat??

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/71bcc9bc7c543f2695e0f8c45e28e515.jpg)

Excellent!  It's a step in the right direction towards legitimacy.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Platensek-po on June 26, 2019, 12:17:34 AM
Gotta love hunters bashing each other over where money comes from that goes towards conservation. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Conservation needs to be a bipartisan issue. If the only reason you believe in conservation is for hunting and fishing and not for wildlife in general, then I find you to be shallow and sad. Your hatred runs sooo deep that you would rather cut off your own foot then accept that others can do some good as well on certain issues. I donít agree with everyoneís politics but that doesnít mean that I would bash them for trying to help conservation efforts. Go bash each other over wether or not Obama is a radical leftist (wich given his politics and donors he clearly was not). No room for personal politics and bashing when we all want more conservation of wildlife and access to this places. And that conservation is not for me, itís for my kids and their kids and everyone who wants to enjoy it. Bunch of angry school kids talking about whose dick is bigger over the internet.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Bushcraft on June 26, 2019, 12:24:02 AM
Gotta love hunters bashing each other over where money comes from that goes towards conservation. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Conservation needs to be a bipartisan issue. If the only reason you believe in conservation is for hunting and fishing and not for wildlife in general, then I find you to be shallow and sad. Your hatred runs sooo deep that you would rather cut off your own foot then accept that others can do some good as well on certain issues. I donít agree with everyoneís politics but that doesnít mean that I would bash them for trying to help conservation efforts. Go bash each other over wether or not Obama is a radical leftist (wich given his politics and donors he clearly was not). No room for personal politics and bashing when we all want more conservation of wildlife and access to this places. And that conservation is not for me, itís for my kids and their kids and everyone who wants to enjoy it. Bunch of angry school kids talking about whose dick is bigger over the internet.

Hahahahaha!

If you think Obama wasn't a radical leftist, then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona. From my front porch you can see the sea.  If you buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free.

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: Platensek-po on June 26, 2019, 01:13:53 AM
Figured hat would be your take away. Yeah bailing out billionaires and forcing people to purchase things is totally radically left. You havenít ever seen a radical left politician in the US. In any other country Obama would be center right or center at best. The only reason you think Obamaís Ian radically left is because you are radically right.
Title: Re: meateater buying first lite
Post by: bearpaw on June 26, 2019, 02:46:04 AM
I wanted to see the money trail for myself so I spent numerous hours going through internet sites. which revealed that BHA gets the majority of their money (millions) from large foundations that support restricting access to lands that many hunters, fishers, trappers, and recreationists of many types currently use. Actual membership dues are only a small fraction of the money BHA is hauling in. You can find these big dollar BHA donations on the websites of the green foundations that are sending them money and you can see how the money is spent on BHA tax forms. I started by getting info on the Green Decoy website, then I looked up the foundations that GD mentioned, I also researched who Land Tawney has worked for and campaigned for. From everything I found online there are millions donated almost every year to BHA by these green leaning foundations as mentioned on the Green Decoys website, and the internet only shows democratic politicians including the Obama campaign, not a single Republican was mentioned that Land Tawney has supported, it appeared that he only opposed Republicans, not even any middle of the road Republicans were supported that i could find. It really appears they have am ingenious democratic political action group. But hey, if anyone can find otherwise where Republicans who support hunters and fishers have been supported by Tawney but I certainly welcome any info to be posted here on the forum that indicates otherwise so we all will know better?

The whole keeping public lands public was an incredibly brilliant move when it was relevent, but that will lose traction as it's no longer a real issue and as time passes BHA members will begin to realize that, at least it's not an issue until we get another liberal administration that starts taking multiple land use away from the majority of people, then it could become an issue again as local governments where th land grabs occur fight back against those federal land grabs.

I'm sure BHA will start getting involved in more actual conservation programs in order to keep the organization legitimate, it's a necessity for IRS survival. Wildlife and hunter/fishers/trappers will benefit, I welcome that.

There is a group that rates various charities based upon the amount of dollars taken in verses actual dollars spent on their purported purpose. Organizations like Rocky Mountain Elk and NWTF rank high, organizations like HSUS are some of the worst because they spend most money on salaries or politically and not for saving cats and dogs as they claim. I would like to know BHA's rating for percentage of money on the ground?

Outdoor folks were hungry for an organization that supports public lands, I think many people believe BHA is the only choice, but some of the other organizations actually put more dollars on the ground, maybe those organizations need to do a better job of informing outdoor folks about their gound work and be more publicly supportive of public lands? It's obvious people want that!

This forum has BHA supporters and some who oppose BHA political efforts, I think rather than the two sides only being confrontational my hope is that BHA supporters can lead your organization into putting more dollars into conservation projects that improve lands, waters, and wildlife. I hope less money will be used in politics trying to take away public access from the majority of users, which is all the rest of us. I think there is a good balance of roaded and non-roaded areas, I don't think we need to continually expand wilderness, how about maintaining the wilderness that we have? To take away access from the majority to benefit a minority seems very elitist and shows a lack of cooperation, understanding, and fairness to the many other users who are being increasingly forced into fewer and fewer areas that still have access for the majority to recreate.