Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Backcountry Hunting => Topic started by: farmin4u_98948 on October 29, 2019, 06:32:29 PM

Title: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on October 29, 2019, 06:32:29 PM
I have a Kuiu 0 deg mummy bag. A thermo rest r 5.7 pad.  At 10 deg I had heavy Sitka thermals , hat, gloves, smartwool socks.  And. I was still not comfortable.  Going to wash my bag and see if that helps. I was out 4 days and things were covered in a layer of ice on the outside but I should have been able to get comfortable....   Any ideas ...  thinking of putting a thin closed chill pad under my thermo rest.   I dunno. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Bango skank on October 29, 2019, 06:36:03 PM
I have their 0į superdown bag too, and was cold sleeping in my thermals in a tent at 30į.  Not worth the price tag imo.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: huntnfmly on October 29, 2019, 06:38:01 PM
This might sound funny but is it possible you were sweaty that caused you to be in comfortable?
The reason I ask is I had a zero degree bag and was uncomfortable because I was sweating and was getting chilled because of that
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: TooTallMike on October 29, 2019, 06:41:30 PM
Try a seatosummit reactor liner it's super lightweight and helps me
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 29, 2019, 06:47:56 PM
I slept In my truck in 28 degrees with a 0 degree bag. I froze my butt off. I need suggestions also


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: kselkhunter on October 29, 2019, 06:49:03 PM
Not all bags are comfortable at their rated temperature limit.   Some do, but many don't meet that limit.  You'll survive at the rated temp but won't necessarily be comfortable.


More insulation underneath is a good idea.  Also a sleeping bag liner is a good idea for adding warmth (also easier to keep the inside of the bag cleaner that way).   


I have a 20F rated Feathered Friends bag.  I will be backpacked into the snow this Friday for 9 days.  Am guessing overnight temps will range from mid 20's down to the teens, and I'll be camped on top of a few feet of packed snow.  I'll have my ultralight cot, a closed cell foam pad, a NeoAir mattress, my sleeping bag, and a liner.  And I have some thick thermal wool top and bottoms as well as down booties if it gets really cold.  And warm beanie hat.   That way I can layer myself to match temperature changes.  The only time in the past that I got really cold was when things got down close to 0F one time...but I have a lightweight packable small down jacket that I can put on in really extreme conditions.


I'd focus on the added insulation layer underneath the bag (adds comfort as well), and the bag liner.


Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
My 10 year old XL-Wide Big Agnus zipper ripped open about 20 inches on 2nd day of my week long hunt last year.
I alway use another down bag between my cot pad and my bag, but you can sure feel those 20 degree nights when you have some serious drafts. Make having to get up in the middle of the night to pee a torture.
I just bought a TETON Sports Celcius XXL to replace the Big Agnes. It would be nice to get 10 years out of this as well. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 29, 2019, 06:54:25 PM
Bags are rated at survival temp not comfort rating..a zero bag will be good for low 30s Mid 20s for comfort level depending on the person.....if u want to be warm in the cold you need a negative bag..

If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on October 29, 2019, 07:01:56 PM
The easiest and most effective thing for staying warm is to tweak your own body chemistry. Eat as much red meat as possible, you know the meat sweats? That is because itís incredibly energy dense and your body creates heat when it has an excessive amount of readily burned fuel. Most common backpacking food is the exact opposite of steak, sure itís light weight but itís nutritional value is also ultra light. Supplement Iodine and stop drinking fluoridated water. Being healthy keeps you warm, not to say gear isnít important but start with your body first.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: RobinHoodlum on October 29, 2019, 07:11:18 PM
Fill a 1 liter Nalgene with boiling water. Works wonders when we're climbing the volcanos and other big mountains that require overnight on snow or glacier
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on October 29, 2019, 07:23:08 PM
Fill a 1 liter Nalgene with boiling water. Works wonders when we're climbing the volcanos and other big mountains that require overnight on snow or glacier

This is a great trip, but when the heat runs out in the bottle your heat will transfer back the other way so you have to take it out.

Last year in Alaska I was so cold I shivered through the first 2 nights at around 15-20 degrees in a zero degree bag. I started opening the 8 hour hot hands and throwing one in the bag by my feet. It helped quite a bit. I have thought about getting a liner to try with my sleeping bag.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: ghosthunter on October 29, 2019, 07:38:07 PM
My hunting clothes bag has the best item in it.
A hot water bottle. Fill it with boiling water, throw in your bag down in the bottom couple hours before bed time sleep comfy all night. Never leave home without it. Best 11.00 Ever spent. :tup:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Jpmiller on October 29, 2019, 07:58:16 PM
I've got a 15* REI bag that has to be at least twenty years old and has about twenty feet of duct tape patches on it. Last February my pad deflated on a 10* night and I basically slept on the ground in a tent with two other dudes. Neither of them got any sleep all night because they were freezing in their 0* bags and sat up listening to me snore. I woke up feeling great.

I'm pretty sure it's more important to find which bag works best for you as opposed to what bag works for others. Find a style your comfortable in, buy a heavier bag if you get cold, and buy the best quality you can afford.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 29, 2019, 08:00:34 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Jpmiller on October 29, 2019, 08:01:26 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍

I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: X-Force on October 29, 2019, 08:12:45 PM
Lots of great comments and info.

One thing to add is make sure you store and wash your bag properly. Store bags hung up in a closet, usually inside out. Keeping bags in their stuff sack and even their storage bag compresses the insulation and ruins the loft stealing your insulation rating.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: jrebel on October 29, 2019, 08:20:23 PM
How do you fit in your bag.  You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up.  If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value.  If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space.  Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags.  I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off. 

Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 08:20:40 PM
Lots of great comments and info.

One thing to add is make sure you store and wash your bag properly. Store bags hung up in a closet, usually inside out. Keeping bags in their stuff sack and even their storage bag compresses the insulation and ruins the loft stealing your insulation rating.

I air my bags out for a couple days, roll it up or stuff it depending, and don't think about it until a couple weeks before the next hunting season. Then I try to remember how funky I got last year, and do I need to wash it?



Nah, were good to go............. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Buckjunkie on October 29, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
+3 on ratings. When I researched ratings they are for survival, not comfort. I bought -30 bags and the problem was solved down to 0 degrees.

When we hunt I temps colder than 0 we rent a house or stay in a motel.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 08:31:46 PM
How do you fit in your bag.  You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up.  If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value.  If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space.  Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags.  I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off. 



I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: jrebel on October 29, 2019, 08:41:23 PM
How do you fit in your bag.  You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up.  If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value.  If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space.  Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags.  I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off. 



I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.

For all the reasons you speak to.....I bought a quilt!!   :chuckle: :chuckle:  In really cold temps I wear my......don't laugh.....hoodlum on my head.  Man it will flat cook your noggin.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:

https://enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum-stock/
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: REHJWA on October 29, 2019, 08:41:57 PM
I have a military poncho liner I wrap up in when it's below freezing, also try sleeping with out thermal underwear, most bags need your body heat to function properly.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: buckfvr on October 29, 2019, 09:02:36 PM
Add a fleece fart sack.......
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: MtnMuley on October 29, 2019, 09:08:24 PM
I have a Kuiu 0 deg mummy bag. A thermo rest r 5.7 pad.  At 10 deg I had heavy Sitka thermals , hat, gloves, smartwool socks.  And. I was still not comfortable.  Going to wash my bag and see if that helps. I was out 4 days and things were covered in a layer of ice on the outside but I should have been able to get comfortable....   Any ideas ...  thinking of putting a thin closed chill pad under my thermo rest.   I dunno.
You'll feel the same in a FF or WM 0 bag as well.  Just something a guy has to get accustomed to.  :twocents:

Also, it's not a pad issue either with your 5.7 Thermorest.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: KFhunter on October 29, 2019, 09:12:57 PM
The easiest and most effective thing for staying warm is to tweak your own body chemistry. Eat as much red meat as possible, you know the meat sweats? That is because itís incredibly energy dense and your body creates heat when it has an excessive amount of readily burned fuel. Most common backpacking food is the exact opposite of steak, sure itís light weight but itís nutritional value is also ultra light. Supplement Iodine and stop drinking fluoridated water. Being healthy keeps you warm, not to say gear isnít important but start with your body first.

 :yeah:


and I always get cold when I loose 5 lbs,  which I always loose 5 lbs on a big hunt  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Tjv28 on October 29, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
What shelter were you sleeping in? Tarp? In a tent I think you would have been plenty warm
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 29, 2019, 09:41:10 PM
A hooch mate to keep you warm. :dunno:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: wadu1 on October 29, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
A hooch mate to keep you warm. :dunno:
:yeah:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 29, 2019, 10:15:51 PM
Another thing to consider is everyone is different. Some sleep hot, others sleep cold.  I've used 20į bags down under zero on many occasions but I sleep pretty hot and on cold cold nights I'll add puffy's if need be.  On Kodiak this February we had lows into the teens and we were also having to wear our soaking wet clothes to bed to dry them.  That's a new level of suck but those 20į kifaru slick bags are magical.  Still prefer a quilt but for a bomb proof mummy they are king in my book. 

Your best bet if fit allows is just add some layers. Puffy jacket and pants if you are packing them. Good stocking cap and down booty's ard clutch.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: huntnnw on October 29, 2019, 10:18:25 PM
I have a Klymit 0 deg bag and was very comfortable to 20 deg in it this past trip. I had just a tshirt and thin merino bottoms on and was very warm. I woke up one night sweating  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 09:14:10 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on October 30, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Great input.   Thankx.  Going out today.  We will see how I goes
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: banishd on October 30, 2019, 10:07:44 AM
Hey 2Many, send me your thermarests. I'm pretty happy with my neoair and neoair xlite pads. Also way lighter and more packable in my opinion. Work great with a ul bivy. If you are camping with a cot then why would you be using a ultralight backpacking pad anyways?

I use a homemade quilt with 7.5 oz apex insulation with neoair pad in a bivy in my tipi. Warmer than my 12 deg mummy bag ever was. If your bag has too much room or not enough room, you will be colder than you should be. Throw a some clothes in the bottom of the bag if you have too much room in the footbox, or buy a bigger bag if it fits tight. Better yet go the quilt route. Insulation works to keep you warm by trapping layers of air. Compress it and lose warmth, too much airspace and you cant get it warm to start with.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: baker5150 on October 30, 2019, 10:23:11 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much.  Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issue
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2019, 10:59:01 AM
Air is a phenomenal insulator, how do you think down works?

If you sleep cold, look toward the mountaineering brands and get a better bag.  Look to what people who do winter mountaineering use, not the brands that just appeared in the last couple of years or the gram counters use.

After the October opener when things start to cool, I switch to a down -20 bag and am never cold.  I have owned it since 1999 and it is 98% as good today as it was back then.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
Cold air an insulator??????...........Yea once it robs your core temperature to heat it.
Whatever.

Obviously my mules don't care about packing a cott, 2-3" foam rolled tight, and a nice fleece lined bag.
AND all cotts are leveled with tent ditched around perimeter.

Seriously........................ I sympathize with you back pack types.

Eatin paper soaked in water.
Sleeping cold, wet, and uncomfortable.
Waking up to frozen, wet boots.
Wishin you had just one roll of paper towels after each Touchbrown you score.
You guys are a hard working, tough group and deserve every success.

PS.
Don't forget your tire patch kit for when you get a flat pad.


 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Pegasus on October 30, 2019, 11:17:33 AM
No problem staying warm if you double up at night...
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2019, 11:29:31 AM
Cold air an insulator??????...........Yea once it robs your core temperature to heat it.
Whatever.

That is exactly how insulation works.  Unless you heat it, any sleeping bag, pad, shirt or whatever is cold.  Your body heat warms the trapped air, the material keeps the air from moving and you are insulated from the cold.

Trapped air is what insulates you whether you are using a foam pad, inflatable or a bunch of branches on the ground.  The more cold air that is trapped against your body, the warmer you will be.

To the OP, you could get a warmer bag, get a liner, add another pad (many use 2 or more in the winter), wear more clothes, put your bag in a bivvy sack, or try eating a bunch of fat before you go to bed.  Your body will burn it during the night and you will sleep warmer.

For me, I'll pack a couple extra ounces and have a tried and true winter bag.  20 years ago I just got tired of being cold in the winter while mountaineering in Montana and spent an enormous amount of money at the time on a quality bag.  With that bag and a bivvy, I have slept to -22 comfortable (a bit chilly but not cold enough to not sleep well).  In normal hunting temps, I am plenty warm all the time.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: kselkhunter on October 30, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
Yeah, backpacking is a tradeoff in cold whether late season hunts.   Do you spend the $750 for the -40F North Face Inferno at just under 4lbs, or half that for a 6-7lb -20F or -30F cheaper bag?  For something that is too warm to really use during the summer/fall.  Or stick with a 0F or 20F bag and augment with pads, liners, and layers....


It's always a cost vs. weight vs. comfort tradeoff for backpack backcountry hunting.  And that becomes more difficult for the later seasons.


As I mentioned upthread, for snow hunts I double up my pads using both a foam pad and an air pad for both insulation and comfort.   The challenge is not rolling off them at night for me.  So I either use the ultralight cot or the bivy to put the pads and sleeping bag on/in.  The cot is always a weight tradeoff, but it's so comfy.  It's easier to justify packing the cot in archery or muzzy seasons, but for snow trips in rifle elk season I'm packing so much more extra weight (clothes, tipi/stove, etc.) sometimes I choose to save weight and leave the cot and take the bivy instead for use inside my tipi.   I don't keep my tipi stove burning all night as those titanium stoves don't keep heat throughout the night.  I burn it until I fall asleep.  So have to make sure my sleep system is sufficient to withstand the cold of the night once the stove is out.


Good luck to all that are either already out on rifle elk east or are heading out this weekend for rifle elk west. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 11:48:13 AM
There is only one way to not get a cold back if you sleep on an air pad...........Sleep on your stomach.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: baker5150 on October 30, 2019, 11:57:49 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much.  Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issue

Great tip with the Leuko tape.  Ill give that a shot.

I've spent a lot of time digging out tent spots.  I won't sleep a wink if i'm sloped in any direction. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: jstone on October 30, 2019, 11:59:41 AM
Tagging
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on October 30, 2019, 12:03:45 PM
My 2in. self inflating pad slides in a pad pocket on my cot. It won't move at all. Air is a great insulator. If the air in your pad is cold, you will get cold from convection. That is why I use a down bag between my pad and my sleeping bag. The air inside your bag, will be warmed by heat convection from you, as long as outside air does not get in.

I can't think of much worse than trying to sleep in wet and cold clothes or Bag. Makes for one miserable night.

How do you fit in your bag.  You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up.  If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value.  If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space.  Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags.  I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off. 



I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.

For all the reasons you speak to.....I bought a quilt!!   :chuckle: :chuckle:  In really cold temps I wear my......don't laugh.....hoodlum on my head.  Man it will flat cook your noggin.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:

https://enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum-stock/

If it keeps you warm who cares what anyone else thinks, run with it! If I was there with you I would probably snicker when you pulled it out,  :chuckle:
I would drown in sweat in that hoody.

My son puts on every piece of clothing he has before he goes to bed, then can't understand why he is so cold when he has to get out for the hunt.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Ghost Hunter on October 30, 2019, 12:09:42 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍

I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.

 :yeah:  wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando   ;)

Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: mburrows on October 30, 2019, 12:51:59 PM
Bags are rated at survival temp not comfort rating..a zero bag will be good for low 30s Mid 20s for comfort level depending on the person.....if u want to be warm in the cold you need a negative bag..

If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...

Not true, its a comfort rating system.

A 0* bag from one company may match up more comparably to a 15* bag from another.

Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 12:56:39 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Ghost Hunter on October 30, 2019, 01:14:25 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.

 :yike:  Please, No pics! 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 7mmfan on October 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.

Does your wife pull start that heater for you? Or is it manual?
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: linxx77 on October 30, 2019, 01:31:23 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.


Thatís what my wife calls my bum after we go out for Mexican food.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
Kick start due to high compression.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 7mmfan on October 30, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
Kick start due to high compression.

Just don't drop the clutch to early... or to late   :yike:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: sterlryu on October 30, 2019, 03:44:57 PM
A handwarmer or two in the bag (one by the feet, one by the chest, never on bare skin though) was a pretty good trick in the military that let me use a 30 degree bag in the field if it was colder than expected. Hot water bottle also works well, if time consuming to boil.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: huntnnw on October 31, 2019, 06:13:36 AM
I have a klymit pad that blows up and there is a HUGE difference between sleeping on that versus the ground. Not even a question. I can feel the ground almost immediately thru bag if I am off my pad when ground is frozen.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 2MANY on October 31, 2019, 12:18:48 PM
Foam
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: vandeman17 on October 31, 2019, 12:37:08 PM
A handwarmer or two in the bag (one by the feet, one by the chest, never on bare skin though) was a pretty good trick in the military that let me use a 30 degree bag in the field if it was colder than expected. Hot water bottle also works well, if time consuming to boil.

I have done the handwarmer route before and it helps a lot. I just used in the foot of the bag
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: jrebel on October 31, 2019, 01:16:20 PM
Different pads have different R-values.  Buy a Downmat from Exped and you will not get cold.  You also will not slide around.  My pad has the individual cores, if one pops you still have all the rest to keep you off the ground.  I fill the outside two the most and leave the inside cores a little under inflated to cradle me.  It is an amzing system.  I sleep in my boxers with a quilt and stay plenty warm.  My quilt straps to the pad keeping everything in place.  I have enough room that I put my cloths under the quilt so they are warm in the morning. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Jpmiller on October 31, 2019, 05:59:43 PM
On a side note my wife got me an inflatable pillow (I think sea to summit) two years ago for a gift. I felt like a sissy pulling it out of my pack but I slept even better with it then using a rolled up puffy or my wool pants. I imagine anything to help feel more comfortable at night will help.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: swift on November 01, 2019, 06:43:29 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much.  Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issue

Some stripes of seam sealer works wonders as well 😉
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 01, 2019, 06:52:14 AM
Exped downmat 7 keeps me toasty even on snow. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: swanny on November 04, 2019, 02:22:23 PM
Just a thought, but were you cold all night or just in the middle of the night when you most likely had to pee? Holding it in will actually lower your body temperature, so it's best to suck it up, get out, pee, and crawl back in. That or carry a gatorade bottle in the tent.

I didn't ready everything, but lots of good suggestions to add a liner or closed cell foam under your current mat. The EXPED DownMat's are also going to be the most efficient and warm backpackable mats on the market. If you aren't backpacking, check out the EXPED MegaMat series for ultimate comfort and warmth.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on November 05, 2019, 03:00:02 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!

Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!

 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Bushcraft on November 06, 2019, 11:56:49 AM
Some of the questions and responses make me wonder if people ever test their gear at home in the back yard or on pre-season scouting trips before committing to a particular sleeping system during a hunt.  Unless a guy is retired, all of us have limited vacation time that we can use for hunting. Why waste any of that precious time freezing your butt off and being physically and/or mentally diminished in the field?  Or worse, having to pull the plug and cut a trip short?

Just because a bag has a particular rating doesn't mean that the rating is going to be comfortable for you.  You need to figure out if it is in fact accurate not only your "normal" sleeping, but also if you're body is stressed. How is that bag going to perform if you are dehydrated, hungry, physically drained, damp clothes, high humidity level in the air, if your bag is exposed to a breeze or condensation, etc.  Lots of factors at play.

I use a closed cell foam pad, an inflatable pad with an R value appropriate for the conditions, a pillow and an appropriate sleeping bag for the range of conditions I can reasonably expect to encounter during the course of a particular hunt.  I deliberately go to bed with a full belly from a warm meal with a lot of quality fats.  Protein and carbs are of course essential components of the holy trinity of nutritional intake, but FATS are what keep your furnace burning at night.  Suck down some ghee or olive oil and I guarantee you'll have a better night's sleep in cold weather.

Your sleeping bag - regardless of it's temperature rating, is just insulation.

Your body needs to burn calories in order to generate enough heat to keep you warm.


The closed cell foam pad is for insulation insurance and to try and keep my inflatable from getting punctured. I use it all the time as a glassing pad or a pad to sit on around camp to keep my Me from getting cold. Every calorie I have to burn to stay warm is a calorie I have to pack with me into the field.

The inflatables I have range from UL synmats that are basically just baffled air, to thick and wide down filled beds.  You will sleep better on these than just a hard ground pad. Better sleep makes for a better hunter.  Just don't make the mistake of overfilling them. If you can't figure out how to keep your pad from slipping around, try putting 20-40 small silicon dots all over the top and bottom surfaces.

Bring a pillow.  You use one at home. You'll be uncomfortable in the field if you suddenly don't.  Inflatables are great in a pinch to elevate your head but I find them to be aggravatingly unstable and prefer the Thermarest travel pillow.  The latter is also a lot warmer.

I probably have 7-8 bags ranging from barely there UL summertime shells, to serious cold weather options. If you don't have a dedicated bag that can get down into the teens or single digits or even below zero, just double up with two bags.  My current favorite is a Kifaru 20 Degree Long/Wide Slick Bag.  I used it for about 30ish nights in the field thus far this hunting season and have nothing but great things to say about it. 

It shrugged off the insanely wet conditions of High Buck and kept me plenty warm during last week's successful elk hunt where it got down into the low single digits.  I used an old 3/4 Ridgerest closed cell foam pad that needs to be retired, an Exped Synmat UL7, a Thermarest travel pillow, and the Kifaru 20 degree Slick Bag.  I knew it was going to get cold so I wore some thick wool socks, KUIU zip-off bottoms with a KUIU vest draped over my legs inside the bag, my KUIU Attack Pants, a KUIU wool t-shirt, a KUIU wool long sleeve shirt, a NF micro-fleece full-zip and my Kifaru Lost Parka for my torso and a fleece beanie for my noggin. In addition to eating a super high calorie dinner that was heavy on added ghee and olive oil fats, I also...and here's the trick...filled my Nalgene bottles with boiling water and put them in OR's insulated water bottle holders. They are game changers for wintertime backcountry sleeping. One went down by my feet with my boots and the other sort of migrated around but usually resided in the groin/femoral artery area. I would have preferred to have had the superior R-value of one of my Exped Downmats since my back felt cooler in comparison to everything else towards the coldest hours just before daylight, but I was by no means cold or uncomfortable.  Due to an unfortunate mix-up and my packer getting lost, I ended up having to sleep out under the stars at a pre-determined meat pick-up site. Had a pretty good layer of frost on the bag in the morning but the synthetic insulation shrugged it off.

Bottom line: Don't wait until hunting season to test your gear.


 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 11, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
I knew it was going to get cold so I wore some thick wool socks, KUIU zip-off bottoms with a KUIU vest draped over my legs inside the bag, my KUIU Attack Pants, a KUIU wool t-shirt, a KUIU wool long sleeve shirt, a NF micro-fleece full-zip and my Kifaru Lost Parka for my torso and a fleece beanie for my noggin.

You musta been toasty !  Check out a Kuiu 6.4 oz super down puffy jacket for insulation - at one-third the weight you would be roasting in your sleeping bag.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: lamrith on November 11, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍

I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.

 :yeah:  wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando   ;)
^^  I didn't see this mentioned previously in the thread.  I thought the key with a sleeping bag was to NOT wear much clothing?  Yet I see people here talking about bundling up in their bag?  I was always lead to believe that you wanted your body heat out of your clothing as that is what actually heats the bag? 

I did not believe it until I did it (mind you not super cold like some of you are dealing with, but my bag was temp range appropriate), but I had been cold wearing sweats in my bag.  I dropped down to skivies and a tshirt and was quickly comfortable and slept well the rest of the trip.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2019, 01:48:07 PM
All manufacturers are different in their ratings. I know that Enlightened Equipment based their temp ratings off the individual wearing a base layer and socks..
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: swanny on November 11, 2019, 02:48:32 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍

I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.

 :yeah:  wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando   ;)
^^  I didn't see this mentioned previously in the thread.  I thought the key with a sleeping bag was to NOT wear much clothing?  Yet I see people here talking about bundling up in their bag?  I was always lead to believe that you wanted your body heat out of your clothing as that is what actually heats the bag? 

I did not believe it until I did it (mind you not super cold like some of you are dealing with, but my bag was temp range appropriate), but I had been cold wearing sweats in my bag.  I dropped down to skivies and a tshirt and was quickly comfortable and slept well the rest of the trip.

Any bag with an EN or ISO rating (most any bag worth it's money will have on) assumes that the user will be wearing mid weight socks, long underwear top and bottom, beanie, and I believe gloves as well. The bags are then independently lab tested for their results to help assist you get a more quality to bag to more closely match the conditions you will use the bag in.

Quilts or bags without a hood are not tested or sold with these 3rd party ratings.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: ian_padron on December 14, 2019, 07:52:19 PM
Bags are rated at survival temp not comfort rating..a zero bag will be good for low 30s Mid 20s for comfort level depending on the person.....if u want to be warm in the cold you need a negative bag..

If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...
That's incorrect information on the ratings.

EN rated bags (if high quality) will be comfortable down to the rated temperature. They are 3rd party tested to verify that fact.



Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: branches on December 14, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
If your bag is cold just get a fleece bag liner and that will help. Everybody is different when it comes to the cold that liner has helped out our family and our guests when we are backpacking.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: MADMAX on December 14, 2019, 09:15:42 PM
I have a Cabelaís Alaska guide mummy bag rated to -20
Never been cold in it
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: highside74 on December 14, 2019, 10:58:00 PM
What shelter were you sleeping in? Tarp? In a tent I think you would have been plenty warm

I found this out the hard way. I will never tarp again. Same bag same location used a tent the next weekend and was way more comfortable.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Gobble Doc on December 14, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
Kick start due to high compression.

Just don't drop the clutch to early... or to late   :yike:
Too funny


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Ghost Hunter on December 15, 2019, 08:15:36 AM
I have a Cabelaís Alaska guide mummy bag rated to -20
Never been cold in it

 :yeah:  Unless you stick your head out and brain freezes.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Sneaky on December 15, 2019, 09:53:31 AM
WIGGY. I have a double bag system and don't ever get cold.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Cougartail on December 15, 2019, 11:19:57 AM
Bivi sack..
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: MADMAX on December 15, 2019, 01:43:09 PM
I have a Cabelaís Alaska guide mummy bag rated to -20
Never been cold in it

 :yeah:  Unless you stick your head out and brain freezes.


Thatís a very true statement I remember back in the day when we used to use sterno to warm up in the morning in the back of the canopy up in the Nile in 2 feet of snow wasnít fun but you do learn to wear a watch cap at night
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Rock7 on December 15, 2019, 08:39:22 PM
Look into what you wear going to sleep. I have spent a few winters in AK in the Army and guys who wore lots of clothes in their bags froze at night because they sweat.  silk weight long-johns, dry socks, and a beanie cap is all you need.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 15, 2019, 08:45:11 PM
Yep stocking cap at night is a given to keep your toes warm. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: ctwiggs1 on December 15, 2019, 09:26:16 PM
Look into what you wear going to sleep. I have spent a few winters in AK in the Army and guys who wore lots of clothes in their bags froze at night because they sweat.  silk weight long-johns, dry socks, and a beanie cap is all you need.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Vek on December 17, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
I use a MH ultralamina 15 for warm/wet, and a phantom 15 for cold/dry.  I sleep pretty cold...around freezing I'll have my shell jacket draped over the bag, over my legs.  Might even drape the puffy over as well.  Weight the sleeves down with boots or gear to keep it on top.  Purists will whine that the bag shell will wet out, but that's not caused me problems.  If temps stay down in the teens and single digits, the climashield blanket goes with.  it weighs a pound and a half, and gets me down to zero with no drama.  A big part of sleeping in cold is managing the temperature of air infiltration around your head.  With a blanket over the top, you can arrange a somewhat warmed space around your big baghole instead of brisk air. 

I consider it foolish to backpack in cold temps with just an inflatable pad to sleep on.  I bring either a 3/4 ridgerest, 3/4 z-rest or full length closed cell black foam to put on top of my inflatable.  That has worked best for me.  Sheep in Alaska...that was a 3/4 ridgerest only show, which sucks, but you get used to it. 

There are certainly better bags out there, but these have worked for me.  The phantom 15 has a full draft collar around neck/shoulders with a drawstring, and that is a MANDATORY ITEM to prevent massive heat loss through bellowing and infiltration. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Utah on December 25, 2019, 10:56:08 PM
Sea to Summit silk liner will get you another 9 degrees.  But it will cost you 4 ounces.   :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: huntnnw on December 25, 2019, 11:01:43 PM
0 issues with my Klymit inflatable into the teens and my 0 deg bag, wearing only my base layers to bed.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: OltHunter on December 26, 2019, 02:45:08 PM
excellent thread...

My :twocents: that has been covered, but will reiterate:

My rule of thumb - Take the bags temperature rating to start:

Add 10 degrees to for a true comfort level rating - full baselayer, socks, and hat fully enclosed, draft collar fully closed up.  So a 0 degree bag is a 10 degree bag.

Add 10 degrees if you are a woman (no experience with this as i'm not one - just word of mouth). 

Add 10 degrees if you are a cold sleeper.  Your 0 degree bag is now a 20 degree bag.

That is your baseline to choose your bag rating based on the temperatures you are facing and how much extra weight you want/need to pack in to hit that temperature. 

Now it's a game of weight vs cost vs down vs synthetic, i won't get into that. 

But to get back to the OP's issue - your bag is really not a 0 degree bag, it's not the bag or company's fault.  If you are cold in 10 degrees - you will have to supplement as a sub 10 degree bag is not the most viable on a pack in trip.

My best advice is to get a puffy coat and pant set.  Puffy coat, everyone should have.  Pants are a good thing to have too as they can serve 2 purposes in the field and at night.

#2 is closed cell foam pad that you can fold up relatively small, which can server as a glassing pad too.

I'm not sure the viability of packing in 2 bags, or heavy wool blankets.

But that's the equation - how much weight do you want to sacrifice for a good nights sleep?  Puffy coat and pants are an easy one for me at least.





Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Utah on December 27, 2019, 08:56:04 PM
Look into what you wear going to sleep. I have spent a few winters in AK in the Army and guys who wore lots of clothes in their bags froze at night because they sweat.  silk weight long-johns, dry socks, and a beanie cap is all you need.

Yup,  a nice warm meal in your belly and at least half of a Thermerest Ridge rest. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 27, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Puffy coat and pants is low weight insurance for cold nights or unexpected s
Night outs or cold fronts. 
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: dreadi on December 27, 2019, 11:38:36 PM
Some people are just going to be cold when they sleep. Me, I get hot.
When itís in the teens outside, Iím inside a western mountaineering bag that I bought in 2006, on a thermarest pad, in just a long sleeve shirt and boxers.

I like that hot water bottle tip. Thatís old school.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 444Marlin on December 29, 2019, 08:19:25 PM
Some people are just going to be cold when they sleep. Me, I get hot.
When itís in the teens outside, Iím inside a western mountaineering bag that I bought in 2006, on a thermarest pad, in just a long sleeve shirt and boxers.

I like that hot water bottle tip. Thatís old school.
I have a Western Mountaineering bag that's about 20 years old.  10 degree.  THE BEST BAG EVER.  And still as warm as the day I bought it.  My Feather Friends 20 degree is not as good...probably because of the lack of the draft collar.

I second the hot bottle.
I'm skeptical of the newer entries to the market on sleeping bags and packs.  I just don't think they have the experience like some of the outfits where the designers have more experience of sleeping outside than most of us.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: M_ray on December 29, 2019, 09:57:16 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!

Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!

 :chuckle:

Itís the reason I drink whisky straight ... donít need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and youíll sleep all night without getting up!
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 444Marlin on December 30, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!

Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!

 :chuckle:

Itís the reason I drink whisky straight ... donít need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and youíll sleep all night without getting up!
Past a certain age, it doesn't matter what I drink.  I'm almost thinking about borrowing my kid's pull-ups.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on December 30, 2019, 07:42:20 PM
I see a business opportunity, selling camo Depends and xxx size camo pull-ups!! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Utah on December 30, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!

Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!

 :chuckle:

Itís the reason I drink whisky straight ... donít need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and youíll sleep all night without getting up!

I've no problem pissin in a Gatorade jug inside my bag.     Just sayin    :)
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: MADMAX on December 30, 2019, 09:47:52 PM
I was waiting to see if anybody was gonna mention the old P bucket
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: 444Marlin on December 31, 2019, 07:42:38 PM
I was waiting to see if anybody was gonna mention the old P bucket
Back in my mountaineering days we used to have 2 bottles each:  one for pee and one for drinking.  I only mixed them up once! :bdid:
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Jpmiller on December 31, 2019, 08:06:26 PM
I was waiting to see if anybody was gonna mention the old P bucket

The original hot water bottle.

I tried peeing in the bag once but I was so freaked out about spillage I just got up and went outside. It's not a regular enough thing for me to bother learning yet.
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: Alchase on December 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM
I just throw my boots on and step outside in my underwear. By the time I feel the cold I already done and heading back to the warm bag, besides I would not trust my aim half asleep.

LOL
Title: Re: Kinda cold in my bag
Post by: HikerHunter on January 21, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
excellent thread...

My :twocents: that has been covered, but will reiterate:

My rule of thumb - Take the bags temperature rating to start:

Add 10 degrees to for a true comfort level rating - full baselayer, socks, and hat fully enclosed, draft collar fully closed up.  So a 0 degree bag is a 10 degree bag.

Add 10 degrees if you are a woman (no experience with this as i'm not one - just word of mouth). 

Add 10 degrees if you are a cold sleeper.  Your 0 degree bag is now a 20 degree bag.

That is your baseline to choose your bag rating based on the temperatures you are facing and how much extra weight you want/need to pack in to hit that temperature. 

Now it's a game of weight vs cost vs down vs synthetic, i won't get into that. 

But to get back to the OP's issue - your bag is really not a 0 degree bag, it's not the bag or company's fault.  If you are cold in 10 degrees - you will have to supplement as a sub 10 degree bag is not the most viable on a pack in trip.

My best advice is to get a puffy coat and pant set.  Puffy coat, everyone should have.  Pants are a good thing to have too as they can serve 2 purposes in the field and at night.

#2 is closed cell foam pad that you can fold up relatively small, which can server as a glassing pad too.

I'm not sure the viability of packing in 2 bags, or heavy wool blankets.

But that's the equation - how much weight do you want to sacrifice for a good nights sleep?  Puffy coat and pants are an easy one for me at least.

I think you are right about most of the bags out there, but my western mountaineering rating is spot on. I've heard feathered friends have accurate temp ratings too.

One thing to be careful with when doubling sleeping bags, throwing wool blankets over your bag or even wearing clothes in your bag, if you are compressing your insulation layers, it might make you colder!