Hunting Washington Forum

Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: bbarnes on September 22, 2020, 04:12:21 AM

Title: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bbarnes on September 22, 2020, 04:12:21 AM
 WDFW is trying to go around law makers,on E BIKES.My self and others are seeking answers,to why?They have gone to the attorney generals office to ban E BIKES,on WDFW and sounds like,DNR LANDS in the state.Why I ask?????? to many complaints from other hunters, but I said the law is the law,and it clearly states our bikes are classified as bicycles.MYSELF AND OTHERS have made a major investment in theses bicycles,and with no imput from the user group,tells me where we stand as hunters in this state.In talking with the chief of region 5 law enforcement he said he's for the bike but Olympia is against them.Im urging all of this user group to have your voices heard at your county state and federal level.To myself and others its spreads people out, and gives people a quality of hunt.KEEP OUR PUBLIC LANDS PUBLIC !!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Bango skank on September 22, 2020, 05:48:36 AM
Its still public land even if its off limits to motorized travel
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hawks33 on September 22, 2020, 06:01:11 AM
I go back and forth with ebikes. I dont have one, therefore, I'm not biased by an investment into to something being called into question.  I do have atvs and I could get an ebike, but anymore, it seems like it's too easy to get 10 miles into the backcountry or behind gates.  If we truly want to protect this resource, do we want to continue to make it easier to get to animals? You still have to hunt and do the boot work after the ebike ride, I'm just not sure I'm a fan.

There are some places that everyone shouldn't be able to go and after the massive influx of hikers etc into the forests this year, I feel even more strongly about that. The massive amount of garbage being one reason (my experience).  Just seems like we need to limit the "the spread" of hunters into our forests and give mother nature a chance to take care of her critters.  I'll get off my soap box now
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bear on September 22, 2020, 06:26:09 AM
If it has a motor, itís a motorcycle.  Should be used as such.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 06:26:34 AM
Good. They shouldn't be classified as a bicycle. Plenty of places to drive motorized vehicles. The lobbying from E-Bike companies and E-Bike owners is distasteful and disingenuous.

Hope the bike is fun though, good way to cover ground quietly in motorized areas :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 06:34:30 AM
You have to draw the line somewhere and they did that long ago with ďno motorized vehiclesĒ an electric motor is a motor.. you start letting electric bikes in then what is next?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 06:37:30 AM
Well Hawks33, as an atv owner you should have a dog in this fight.  How do you like the limited riding places in our state already, they make us buy tabs for what?  What's next if they ban a bike that assist the rider a little bit, you don't think ATV's are a bigger problem with how people use them behind gates?  I have both, and this myth that an ebike is like a motorcycle is from people who have never ridden one.  The bike assist you on your ride, you can just push the throttle and go on flats, but if you go up any steep hills, you have to pedal and they don't last 20 miles like they advertise.  I took mine up a 6 mile incline, peddling all the way, and my battery was about 80% dead, it's a brand new 750.  I think people that don't own these bikes don't have a clue about them.  This is just another example of user groups against each other.  If private timber wants to ban all ebikes, that's one thing, but the state banning them on public land is total BS.  I know you have seen what horses do to trails, tell me a bike is worse?  I'm not wanting to point you out on this at all, my post if for all the ebike haters.  If ebikes get banned, maybe horses should too???  And to be clear, I am not for breaking the walk in only rules behind gates, But their are plenty of walk in only gates and gates that you should be able to ride your bike in.  Haters hate, some hate rifle, some hate archery for the amount of animals that don't get found and go off and die!  Some hate muzzy's with 209 and someday scopes.  Lets just keep fighting each other and pretty soon we won't see disabled, or older hunters in the field at all.  I'm sure when I was a younger guy I'd hate ebikes too, but as age creeps up slowly, it's nice to work smarter not harder.  Last rant, what about our damn rights people????  we live in America, we kick azz, we explore, our population is expanding so yeah, there will be more hunters, hikers, anti's , pros......   Get over it, it's a bike with battery, if some guy/gal peddles by you, they could be riding right past that record book blacktail, you never know.  Hunting is exploring, and it's a lot of luck, quit friken crying about what others do, unless they are out to take away your damn rights!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hawks33 on September 22, 2020, 06:54:18 AM
Trophyhunt- not trying to sh*t in any anyones cornflakes, just wanted to be part of this discussion, it's a topic that's been on my mind and I've discussed with many friends. Like I said, I go back and forth on the topic. You're right, as I get older, it would be nice to have something to assist my broken down knees and back :), and I do own atvs. I didnt say I use the atvs for hunting anymore, I havent used one for hunting in a few years.

I support you in hunting, as well as anyone else. But is it not my right to have an opinion and to want to have a good discussion.

You're right again; atvs, horses etc all cause damage...the topic was ebikes and I, like bear, think it's a motorized vehicle. I wish you a great hunting season, be safe
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 06:58:32 AM
Well Hawks33, as an atv owner you should have a dog in this fight.  How do you like the limited riding places in our state already, they make us buy tabs for what?  What's next if they ban a bike that assist the rider a little bit, you don't think ATV's are a bigger problem with how people use them behind gates?  I have both, and this myth that an ebike is like a motorcycle is from people who have never ridden one.  The bike assist you on your ride, you can just push the throttle and go on flats, but if you go up any steep hills, you have to pedal and they don't last 20 miles like they advertise.  I took mine up a 6 mile incline, peddling all the way, and my battery was about 80% dead, it's a brand new 750.  I think people that don't own these bikes don't have a clue about them.  This is just another example of user groups against each other.  If private timber wants to ban all ebikes, that's one thing, but the state banning them on public land is total BS.  I know you have seen what horses do to trails, tell me a bike is worse?  I'm not wanting to point you out on this at all, my post if for all the ebike haters.  If ebikes get banned, maybe horses should too???  And to be clear, I am not for breaking the walk in only rules behind gates, But their are plenty of walk in only gates and gates that you should be able to ride your bike in.  Haters hate, some hate rifle, some hate archery for the amount of animals that don't get found and go off and die!  Some hate muzzy's with 209 and someday scopes.  Lets just keep fighting each other and pretty soon we won't see disabled, or older hunters in the field at all.  I'm sure when I was a younger guy I'd hate ebikes too, but as age creeps up slowly, it's nice to work smarter not harder.  Last rant, what about our damn rights people????  we live in America, we kick azz, we explore, our population is expanding so yeah, there will be more hunters, hikers, anti's , pros......   Get over it, it's a bike with battery, if some guy/gal peddles by you, they could be riding right past that record book blacktail, you never know.  Hunting is exploring, and it's a lot of luck, quit friken crying about what others do, unless they are out to take away your damn rights!

I don't see anybody "crying" except for the EBike owners  :dunno:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 07:00:55 AM
Trophyhunt- not trying to sh*t in any anyones cornflakes, just wanted to be part of this discussion, it's a topic that's been on my mind and I've discussed with many friends. Like I said, I go back and forth on the topic. You're right, as I get older, it would be nice to have something to assist my broken down knees and back :), and I do own atvs. I didnt say I use the atvs for hunting anymore, I havent used one for hunting in a few years.

I support you in hunting, as well as anyone else. But is it not my right to have an opinion and to want to have a good discussion.

You're right again; atvs, horses etc all cause damage...the topic was ebikes and I, like bear, think it's a motorized vehicle. I wish you a great hunting season, be safe
:tup:  Didn't mean to make it sound like I was jumping on you, this subject just pisses me off.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: jay.sharkbait on September 22, 2020, 07:01:19 AM
Motor=motorized

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 07:04:29 AM
Well Hawks33, as an atv owner you should have a dog in this fight.  How do you like the limited riding places in our state already, they make us buy tabs for what?  What's next if they ban a bike that assist the rider a little bit, you don't think ATV's are a bigger problem with how people use them behind gates?  I have both, and this myth that an ebike is like a motorcycle is from people who have never ridden one.  The bike assist you on your ride, you can just push the throttle and go on flats, but if you go up any steep hills, you have to pedal and they don't last 20 miles like they advertise.  I took mine up a 6 mile incline, peddling all the way, and my battery was about 80% dead, it's a brand new 750.  I think people that don't own these bikes don't have a clue about them.  This is just another example of user groups against each other.  If private timber wants to ban all ebikes, that's one thing, but the state banning them on public land is total BS.  I know you have seen what horses do to trails, tell me a bike is worse?  I'm not wanting to point you out on this at all, my post if for all the ebike haters.  If ebikes get banned, maybe horses should too???  And to be clear, I am not for breaking the walk in only rules behind gates, But their are plenty of walk in only gates and gates that you should be able to ride your bike in.  Haters hate, some hate rifle, some hate archery for the amount of animals that don't get found and go off and die!  Some hate muzzy's with 209 and someday scopes.  Lets just keep fighting each other and pretty soon we won't see disabled, or older hunters in the field at all.  I'm sure when I was a younger guy I'd hate ebikes too, but as age creeps up slowly, it's nice to work smarter not harder.  Last rant, what about our damn rights people????  we live in America, we kick azz, we explore, our population is expanding so yeah, there will be more hunters, hikers, anti's , pros......   Get over it, it's a bike with battery, if some guy/gal peddles by you, they could be riding right past that record book blacktail, you never know.  Hunting is exploring, and it's a lot of luck, quit friken crying about what others do, unless they are out to take away your damn rights!

I don't see anybody "crying" except for the EBike owners  :dunno:
I beg to differ Jon, ebikes have always been complained about on this site and others.  I just see more damage from other groups and think people don't have a clue about ebikes till they ride one.  Also, just to put it out there again, I'm not saying we should ride behind walk in only gates, we should have gates like idaho that keep vehicles out but other uses are welcome. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: jstone on September 22, 2020, 07:04:49 AM
Not a fan of them.!!!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 07:09:53 AM
I'm curious, all you haters, do you have any bad examples of ebike riders in the woods ruining your hunt? Was it behind a non motorized gate or did they just beat you to a spot?  I've been in the woods most my life and don't think I've even seen one in the woods? 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bornhunter on September 22, 2020, 07:17:34 AM
Wont be long and people will want ebikes allowed in wilderness areas.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 07:18:18 AM
Iím not a hater, I  donít care either way if someone rides an Ebike, horse, Cow, Vespa or hoverboard,  I just try and go by the rules of the road
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 07:19:51 AM
Wont be long and people will want ebikes allowed in wilderness areas.
I don't see that happening, it's just not very practical, tough walking in some of those areas much less riding a bike. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: h20hunter on September 22, 2020, 07:20:42 AM
My guess is it's a slippery slope...if ebikes why not e trikes or quads? Still electric? I also have no issue with them and would likely get one. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 07:21:03 AM
Well Hawks33, as an atv owner you should have a dog in this fight.  How do you like the limited riding places in our state already, they make us buy tabs for what?  What's next if they ban a bike that assist the rider a little bit, you don't think ATV's are a bigger problem with how people use them behind gates?  I have both, and this myth that an ebike is like a motorcycle is from people who have never ridden one.  The bike assist you on your ride, you can just push the throttle and go on flats, but if you go up any steep hills, you have to pedal and they don't last 20 miles like they advertise.  I took mine up a 6 mile incline, peddling all the way, and my battery was about 80% dead, it's a brand new 750.  I think people that don't own these bikes don't have a clue about them.  This is just another example of user groups against each other.  If private timber wants to ban all ebikes, that's one thing, but the state banning them on public land is total BS.  I know you have seen what horses do to trails, tell me a bike is worse?  I'm not wanting to point you out on this at all, my post if for all the ebike haters.  If ebikes get banned, maybe horses should too???  And to be clear, I am not for breaking the walk in only rules behind gates, But their are plenty of walk in only gates and gates that you should be able to ride your bike in.  Haters hate, some hate rifle, some hate archery for the amount of animals that don't get found and go off and die!  Some hate muzzy's with 209 and someday scopes.  Lets just keep fighting each other and pretty soon we won't see disabled, or older hunters in the field at all.  I'm sure when I was a younger guy I'd hate ebikes too, but as age creeps up slowly, it's nice to work smarter not harder.  Last rant, what about our damn rights people????  we live in America, we kick azz, we explore, our population is expanding so yeah, there will be more hunters, hikers, anti's , pros......   Get over it, it's a bike with battery, if some guy/gal peddles by you, they could be riding right past that record book blacktail, you never know.  Hunting is exploring, and it's a lot of luck, quit friken crying about what others do, unless they are out to take away your damn rights!

I don't see anybody "crying" except for the EBike owners  :dunno:
I beg to differ Jon, ebikes have always been complained about on this site and others.  I just see more damage from other groups and think people don't have a clue about ebikes till they ride one.  Also, just to put it out there again, I'm not saying we should ride behind walk in only gates, we should have gates like idaho that keep vehicles out but other uses are welcome. 

They should be allowed wherever dirtbikes are. I can see them offering an advantage over a dirtbike in many situations i.e. walking over unrideable trail portions and easier to hide, more reliability in some cases too.

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hawks33 on September 22, 2020, 07:24:58 AM
No worries trophyhunt, it's your right too! I've seen 2 ebikes, westside, none east.  If you're on ebike and you have an animal down, if I'm around, I'll be happy to help you and anyone else. I just think access is getting too easy. I dont hate you or anyone else for how they hunt, I might just not like it as much as my way :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fowl smacker on September 22, 2020, 07:26:44 AM
Pretty simple to me, it has a motor, it can't go into a non motorized area.  Not even sure how this is debatable.  If you think it offers no major advantage over a regular bicycle then sell your ebike buy a regular bicycle and be $ ahead.  By the way, I'm not anti ebike, I think they're cool as heck.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Hectocotylus on September 22, 2020, 07:34:14 AM
It has a motor. They make dirt bikes with electric motors, those arenít allowed either.


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Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 22, 2020, 07:36:39 AM
Not an e bike hater but don't like the attitude that some owners have. Had a conversation this weekend on the coast with a couple that was going to ride in behind a closed gate/non motorized area. Lets just say they where very passionate about their bikes. Needless to say they moved on when I pointed out the area may or may not have active enforcement and surveillance in place.

If you own one ride it on designated orv trails. Simple. But non motorized areas means non motorized. It means that I train all year so I can access gated areas 6,8,10 miles either on mnt bike, foot, or a combo of both. I know after a couple miles I've separated myself from most hunters.

If e bikes where legal I can only imagine how many people would be accessing these areas. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: jrebel on September 22, 2020, 07:47:46 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 08:00:19 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Bango skank on September 22, 2020, 08:06:35 AM
Never seen a motorized horse myself
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: grundy53 on September 22, 2020, 08:08:03 AM
Motor=motorized
Exactly

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Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: grundy53 on September 22, 2020, 08:08:23 AM
Pretty simple to me, it has a motor, it can't go into a non motorized area.  Not even sure how this is debatable.  If you think it offers no major advantage over a regular bicycle then sell your ebike buy a regular bicycle and be $ ahead.  By the way, I'm not anti ebike, I think they're cool as heck.
Well said

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Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 22, 2020, 08:08:30 AM
Never seen a motorized horse myself

Used to have them outside of Safeways back in the day. Cost like .25 to ride.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: full choke on September 22, 2020, 08:10:39 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 08:11:18 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.
:yeah: this is my point.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bornhunter on September 22, 2020, 08:11:45 AM
Not an e bike hater but don't like the attitude that some owners have. Had a conversation this weekend on the coast with a couple that was going to ride in behind a closed gate/non motorized area. Lets just say they where very passionate about their bikes. Needless to say they moved on when I pointed out the area may or may not have active enforcement and surveillance in place.

If you own one ride it on designated orv trails. Simple. But non motorized areas means non motorized. It means that I train all year so I can access gated areas 6,8,10 miles either on mnt bike, foot, or a combo of both. I know after a couple miles I've separated myself from most hunters.

If e bikes where legal I can only imagine how many people would be accessing these areas.

Spot on!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 08:15:11 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 08:20:03 AM
Well Hawks33, as an atv owner you should have a dog in this fight.  How do you like the limited riding places in our state already, they make us buy tabs for what?  What's next if they ban a bike that assist the rider a little bit, you don't think ATV's are a bigger problem with how people use them behind gates?  I have both, and this myth that an ebike is like a motorcycle is from people who have never ridden one.  The bike assist you on your ride, you can just push the throttle and go on flats, but if you go up any steep hills, you have to pedal and they don't last 20 miles like they advertise.  I took mine up a 6 mile incline, peddling all the way, and my battery was about 80% dead, it's a brand new 750.  I think people that don't own these bikes don't have a clue about them.  This is just another example of user groups against each other.  If private timber wants to ban all ebikes, that's one thing, but the state banning them on public land is total BS.  I know you have seen what horses do to trails, tell me a bike is worse?  I'm not wanting to point you out on this at all, my post if for all the ebike haters.  If ebikes get banned, maybe horses should too???  And to be clear, I am not for breaking the walk in only rules behind gates, But their are plenty of walk in only gates and gates that you should be able to ride your bike in.  Haters hate, some hate rifle, some hate archery for the amount of animals that don't get found and go off and die!  Some hate muzzy's with 209 and someday scopes.  Lets just keep fighting each other and pretty soon we won't see disabled, or older hunters in the field at all.  I'm sure when I was a younger guy I'd hate ebikes too, but as age creeps up slowly, it's nice to work smarter not harder.  Last rant, what about our damn rights people????  we live in America, we kick azz, we explore, our population is expanding so yeah, there will be more hunters, hikers, anti's , pros......   Get over it, it's a bike with battery, if some guy/gal peddles by you, they could be riding right past that record book blacktail, you never know.  Hunting is exploring, and it's a lot of luck, quit friken crying about what others do, unless they are out to take away your damn rights!

I don't see anybody "crying" except for the EBike owners  :dunno:
I beg to differ Jon, ebikes have always been complained about on this site and others.  I just see more damage from other groups and think people don't have a clue about ebikes till they ride one.  Also, just to put it out there again, I'm not saying we should ride behind walk in only gates, we should have gates like idaho that keep vehicles out but other uses are welcome. 

They should be allowed wherever dirtbikes are. I can see them offering an advantage over a dirtbike in many situations i.e. walking over unrideable trail portions and easier to hide, more reliability in some cases too.

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
I have both, I use my regular bike in non motorized areas, Iím new to the ebike hunting, just bought it this year and have only used it on a roads that are open to them.  I just see people hating another hunter group which doesnít help anyone.  I still wonder how many people have been affected in a negative way by ebikes? Like was said, horses cause way worse damage, I donít see damage by my bike going down a trail Iím allowed to ride on.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 08:23:30 AM
Iím not arguing here for ebikes being allowed in walk in only areas, Iím saying there should be a place for them as well as other means of hunting.  Roads with gates that allow ebikes, horses, walking, and walking only areas like someone mentioned that has been working in Idaho very well.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: huntnphool on September 22, 2020, 08:26:33 AM
 Iím waiting for Elon to produce a single seat quad drone you can sit in and fly using your cell phone, now that will be a interesting thread to read. :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 08:28:48 AM
Iím waiting for Elon to produce a single seat quad drone you can sit in and fly using your cell phone, now that will be a interesting thread to read. :chuckle:
seriously, how cool would that be!!  Especially for getting to work! 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: jrebel on September 22, 2020, 08:31:09 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:

I think the responses to my post are focused on the wrong aspect....being the horse....I use it only as an example of travel that gives the hunter an advantage over the hiker.  My only point is that....there are many different forms of travel and non are inherently good or bad, just different.  The argument that an e-bike gives the end user an advantage over a hiker, thus it should be banned, is ridiculous.  If you allow that argument we would need to ban all modes of travel except for foot (thus making hunting a sport only for the young / in shape athlete).  If the hiker wants an advantage, hike where an e-bike cannot travel. 

Again, I think Idaho has done it right....label the trailheads with what is allowed and fine the people that brake that law.  If the law currently states e-bikes under so many watts are considered "bikes" then allow them where you would allow other bikes.  If you don't like competing with them, then buy one yourself or go where they are not allowed.....simple really. 



Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 08:34:29 AM
seems super simple to me.
e bike has a motor right? shouldn't be allowed in non motorized areas.
solution? get a regular bike as well or find another area to hunt that allow motorized vehicles.  The lands are still public, they just have laws.  they aren't keeping you out of the land.  public roads have speed limits and laws about what types of vehicles are allowed on them right?
 :dunno:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 08:34:38 AM
I go back and forth with ebikes. I dont have one, therefore, I'm not biased by an investment into to something being called into question.  I do have atvs and I could get an ebike, but anymore, it seems like it's too easy to get 10 miles into the backcountry or behind gates.  If we truly want to protect this resource, do we want to continue to make it easier to get to animals? You still have to hunt and do the boot work after the ebike ride, I'm just not sure I'm a fan.

There are some places that everyone shouldn't be able to go and after the massive influx of hikers etc into the forests this year, I feel even more strongly about that. The massive amount of garbage being one reason (my experience).  Just seems like we need to limit the "the spread" of hunters into our forests and give mother nature a chance to take care of her critters.  I'll get off my soap box now
I've been on the fence on getting one.  Mostly haven't due to not getting any clear answers on use.  Really, though, it isn't the hunting part that's the concern.  The pack out is where I think it would mainly be an asset.  When you get a few miles behind a gate, then a mile off the road--it might take a couple full days to get an animal out.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: arees on September 22, 2020, 08:35:07 AM
It was claimed, correctly, that current battery technology limits the advantage of an ebike over a normal bike.  The one thing I can be sure of is that battery technology will get better.  It will probably get better rapidly.  Battery improvements are why we are talking about ebikes at all.

If you declare ebikes to be non-motorized vehicles just because the current version has a limited battery, what do you do when ones with better batteries appear on the market?  That single seat quad drone is already in testing.  Is it non-motorized because it has a limited range?

If it has a motor, it is motorized.  Use it in the areas where motorized vehicles are allowed.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: buckfvr on September 22, 2020, 08:38:09 AM
I know private property owners (timber cos) can ban anything they want and Hancock has posted gates near me that clearly state no e-bikes, so maybe wdfw is aligning with some of their largest private holdings partners in order to eliminate any confusion on whether or not they can be used here but not there.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 08:40:25 AM
seems super simple to me.
e bike has a motor right? shouldn't be allowed in motorized areas.
solution? get a regular bike as well or find another area to hunt that allow motorized vehicles.  The lands are still public, they just have laws.  they aren't keeping you out of the land.  public roads have speed limits and laws about what types of vehicles are allowed on them right?
 :dunno:
Part of the issue is that the laws don't consider them motorized until they hit a certain speed or power or other features.  Until that point they are considered electric assisted bikes.  We all know it has a motor, but legally it isn't. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 08:41:41 AM
Mr. @trophyhunt, Jerry, I asked this earlier can you please give me your thoughts?

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 08:41:45 AM
It was claimed, correctly, that current battery technology limits the advantage of an ebike over a normal bike.  The one thing I can be sure of is that battery technology will get better.  It will probably get better rapidly.  Battery improvements are why we are talking about ebikes at all.

If you declare ebikes to be non-motorized vehicles just because the current version has a limited battery, what do you do when ones with better batteries appear on the market?  That single seat quad drone is already in testing.  Is it non-motorized because it has a limited range?

If it has a motor, it is motorized.  Use it in the areas where motorized vehicles are allowed.
and people cant use the "limited range" argument to say it should be allowed (this is not directed at you).
Quads, side by sides, dirt bikes, hell even trucks have a "limited range" based on their fuel capacity.
Battery is the fuel for the e bike.  This is all semantics at this point.
OP is pissed he cant take his e bike where he thought he could because when they were developed there was no law regarding them, now lawmakers and WDFW are working to adjust to newer tech.
Same thing happened with drones when they first came out.
20 years ago you shouldnt have to have laws about these things with hunting, now when you can buy a sweet drone at costco or on amazon, it becomes available to the masses.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 08:45:54 AM
seems super simple to me.
e bike has a motor right? shouldn't be allowed in motorized areas.
solution? get a regular bike as well or find another area to hunt that allow motorized vehicles.  The lands are still public, they just have laws.  they aren't keeping you out of the land.  public roads have speed limits and laws about what types of vehicles are allowed on them right?
 :dunno:
Part of the issue is that the laws don't consider them motorized until they hit a certain speed or power or other features.  Until that point they are considered electric assisted bikes.  We all know it has a motor, but legally it isn't.
right, but all this does is allow companies to develop RIGHT until the edge of the threshold.
there's a reason kicker motors are all 9.9, or all of those little scooters are 49CC
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
I know private property owners (timber cos) can ban anything they want and Hancock has posted gates near me that clearly state no e-bikes, so maybe wdfw is aligning with some of their largest private holdings partners in order to eliminate any confusion on whether or not they can be used here but not there.
Timber company told me they consider them motorized.  Can bring one but it has to be outfitted as a motorized vehicle--decal, CB, fire extinguisher, axe, shovel and can't exceed 25 mph (plus all the other car rules).
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 08:51:43 AM
I do not have an e bike,never have,but us hunters and other outdoorsman jeepers snowmobilers horse riders etc all need to stick together,who cares "karen".

An e bike in my opinion is no diff than an electric scooter that allows someone that is too obeste to get around,you that want to ban the e bike that helps people that may or may not be able to get around as good as others to be banned from being able to do so?you think e scooters should be banned?

People are always trying to ban things that bring economy to this country,why?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
Not an e bike hater but don't like the attitude that some owners have. Had a conversation this weekend on the coast with a couple that was going to ride in behind a closed gate/non motorized area. Lets just say they where very passionate about their bikes. Needless to say they moved on when I pointed out the area may or may not have active enforcement and surveillance in place.

If you own one ride it on designated orv trails. Simple. But non motorized areas means non motorized. It means that I train all year so I can access gated areas 6,8,10 miles either on mnt bike, foot, or a combo of both. I know after a couple miles I've separated myself from most hunters.

If e bikes where legal I can only imagine how many people would be accessing these areas.

Spot on!
Not to put you out there but like most that don't like what others do would it be fair to say you don't like certain things because it gets in your way personally.You want things banned so you personally have better chances?Is that correct?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: h20hunter on September 22, 2020, 08:57:20 AM
Their property, they make the rules. Want to make your own, buy property.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 08:58:53 AM
 :yeah:  this is the only thing said about banning anything in this thread that makes sense.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
:yeah:  this is the only thing said about banning anything in this thread that makes sense.


Garbage. It's not "banning" to limit them to motorized trails and areas.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:03:54 AM
the statement h20 made is not garbage it is fact.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:08:12 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:
A lot of people with limits have turned to ebikes to travel in the outdoors.

WE CAN ALL SHARE THE OUTDOORS,WE DON'T NEED SEGRIGATION OUTSIDE TOO DO WE?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: buckfvr on September 22, 2020, 09:17:52 AM
Some of you are making this an I want I want entitlement accommodate everyone/anyone issue.  I am not of that cloth.  Cant do it , youre done.  Whats next, when youre too old do you think wdfw should provide wheelchair pushers to get you to your old favorite hunting/fishing spot ?  Come on, get  over it.  NON motorized means just that.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 09:28:00 AM
Mr. @trophyhunt, Jerry, I asked this earlier can you please give me your thoughts?

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
sorry Jon, work got in the way, lol.  I spent the money because I had false hopes of it being better, I thought the bike would take me miles on our hills.  I thought Iíd be easier to pack in and pack out, I turned 51 this year and staying in shape gets harder each year.  When I never rode one, my impression was they were more like a dirt bike, I never realized how much physical work is still needed.  I rode an older one a friend owns and wasnít too impressed, but I figured the new models were better, mine is better but not what I expected.  I said people who havenít ridden them donít have a clue because I was that person, I didnít really have a clue how good/bad they worked until I bought one. Iíd say the biggest advantage is, if your not in Karl Blanchard shape, lol, you donít end up pushing your bike and cart up the hill. But you still have to work, you canít just push the throttle and expect it to make any big hill, you have to pedal. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:30:19 AM
Some of you are making this an I want I want entitlement accommodate everyone/anyone issue.  I am not of that cloth.  Cant do it , youre done.  Whats next, when youre too old do you think wdfw should provide wheelchair pushers to get you to your old favorite hunting/fishing spot ?  Come on, get  over it.  NON motorized means just that.
UMMM,Yeah.  :yeah:

You think because your limited that you can't?No.The only limits that make people with limits can't is laws like this.The i want i want sentiment goes both ways.you think you can get 20 miles out before daylight when you only have limited hunting seasons and oportunities,Awesome.why limit the other guy?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2020, 09:30:43 AM
Totally against
Let me know where to voice my concern. :chuckle: :chuckle:
WDFW has access agreements with many timber company's that allow us to access with no motorized vehicles.
With that said almost all timber land has signs that say no e bikes or no motorized vehicles ,I don't think we should give up access to thousands of acres of land so a few rich people can ride on there e bike.
Now with that said ,20 years ago you didn't see very many ATV .Before you know it everybody will have a e bike ,And no animals to hunt.We are already headed in that direction on some public land areas.

It's a bad idea,with a bad investment, just my  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
 :o now its about the people that have money?

The user group against user group was just extended.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 09:35:37 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:
A lot of people with limits have turned to ebikes to travel in the outdoors.

WE CAN ALL SHARE THE OUTDOORS,WE DON'T NEED SEGRIGATION OUTSIDE TOO DO WE?

Umm we have it. Seasons, restrictions, closed roads, equipment, weapon choice, trail types, wilderness, permits...

Mr. @trophyhunt, Jerry, I asked this earlier can you please give me your thoughts?

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
sorry Jon, work got in the way, lol.  I spent the money because I had false hopes of it being better, I thought the bike would take me miles on our hills.  I thought Iíd be easier to pack in and pack out, I turned 51 this year and staying in shape gets harder each year.  When I never rode one, my impression was they were more like a dirt bike, I never realized how much physical work is still needed.  I rode an older one a friend owns and wasnít too impressed, but I figured the new models were better, mine is better but not what I expected.  I said people who havenít ridden them donít have a clue because I was that person, I didnít really have a clue how good/bad they worked until I bought one. Iíd say the biggest advantage is, if your not in Karl Blanchard shape, lol, you donít end up pushing your bike and cart up the hill. But you still have to work, you canít just push the throttle and expect it to make any big hill, you have to pedal. 

I feel for ya on that. I agree with the earlier stated sentiment of getting out ahead of technology improvements and knowing that ebikes will only get "better" is enough in my mind to restrict them now. Even IF they aren't currently much of an advantage.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:37:42 AM
Tech. has come a long way i'm glad they did not limit us all to spears.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 09:45:21 AM
So when can we use turret mounted heat seeking machine guns on drones to kill animals??  (Asking for a friend)
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:47:36 AM
Tell your friend that's totally off base,Says my friend.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
 :chuckle: sorry I got distracted by shiny technology!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 09:52:09 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:
A lot of people with limits have turned to ebikes to travel in the outdoors.

WE CAN ALL SHARE THE OUTDOORS,WE DON'T NEED SEGRIGATION OUTSIDE TOO DO WE?

Umm we have it. Seasons, restrictions, closed roads, equipment, weapon choice, trail types, wilderness, permits...

Mr. @trophyhunt, Jerry, I asked this earlier can you please give me your thoughts?

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
sorry Jon, work got in the way, lol.  I spent the money because I had false hopes of it being better, I thought the bike would take me miles on our hills.  I thought Iíd be easier to pack in and pack out, I turned 51 this year and staying in shape gets harder each year.  When I never rode one, my impression was they were more like a dirt bike, I never realized how much physical work is still needed.  I rode an older one a friend owns and wasnít too impressed, but I figured the new models were better, mine is better but not what I expected.  I said people who havenít ridden them donít have a clue because I was that person, I didnít really have a clue how good/bad they worked until I bought one. Iíd say the biggest advantage is, if your not in Karl Blanchard shape, lol, you donít end up pushing your bike and cart up the hill. But you still have to work, you canít just push the throttle and expect it to make any big hill, you have to pedal. 

I feel for ya on that. I agree with the earlier stated sentiment of getting out ahead of technology improvements and knowing that ebikes will only get "better" is enough in my mind to restrict them now. Even IF they aren't currently much of an advantage.
agree, Iíd like to see wa access, gates and restrictions be more like Idaho.  Seems every user group is taken care of and the hunting is good.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 09:54:04 AM
 :yeah:

A list of all the things Karen is trying to ban and some on here are helping.

E BIKES
SCOPES ON MUZZLE LOADERS
BREACH LOADED MUZZIES
SNOW MOBILES
JEEPS
JET SKIIS
4 WHEELERS
DIRT BIKES
BARBED HOOKS
FISH HATCHERIES
TRAPPING
SNARES
BOX TRAPS
HUNTING
ETC.

THE LIST IS LONG AND THERE ARE A LOT OF KARENS IN THIS STATE,DON'T BE A KAREN.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 10:00:26 AM
I'm curious, all you haters, do you have any bad examples of ebike riders in the woods ruining your hunt? Was it behind a non motorized gate or did they just beat you to a spot?  I've been in the woods most my life and don't think I've even seen one in the woods?
I have run into them multiple times behind "no motorized vehicle signs" after I had hiked in 3 miles.  Frustrating.  I have also had them trespassing on my property.  So yes I take issue with them not reading signs.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 10:00:47 AM
Rather than ban E-bikes, quads, dual sports, etc. etc. etc......wouldn't be easier to just designate "walk in only" areas.  If there is a gate on the road post the gate.  If there is a trailhead, post the trailhead.  Idaho does this and it appears to be working.  Some of Idaho's gates only allow horseback or foot traffic, others allow quads uder 50"...and some are open to whatever you want to drive or ride on it. 

Next thing you know, the same hunting group that hates e-bikes will be wanting to ban equestrian travel.  Then it will be gate all roads and only the elite athlete has the right to hunt.   Where does it end?   

For the record, I am not an e-bike owner.

I believe this misses the mark. Horses are not new technology, ebikes are. This is just the process of figuring out where they fit in the scheme of (motorized) travel.

No dog in this fight, but why would it matter if it was a horse or an ebike? Both provide an advantage to the user vs the walk in guy. Both damage trails, both allow some people to access an area that they may not otherwise be able to access. I do not see a real big difference?

There are horse trails and bike trails and there are motorized trails. Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't. I don't think it's a big difference either but it is a difference and I think ebikes are finding their place which is motorized travel  :tup:
A lot of people with limits have turned to ebikes to travel in the outdoors.

WE CAN ALL SHARE THE OUTDOORS,WE DON'T NEED SEGRIGATION OUTSIDE TOO DO WE?

Umm we have it. Seasons, restrictions, closed roads, equipment, weapon choice, trail types, wilderness, permits...

Mr. @trophyhunt, Jerry, I asked this earlier can you please give me your thoughts?

Now answer me this...You say they don't offer much of an advantage over a mountain bike. Why spend the money then? How can somebody who hasn't ridden one not have a clue what they're talking about but an Ebike doesn't offer an advantage? How can those things both be true?
sorry Jon, work got in the way, lol.  I spent the money because I had false hopes of it being better, I thought the bike would take me miles on our hills.  I thought Iíd be easier to pack in and pack out, I turned 51 this year and staying in shape gets harder each year.  When I never rode one, my impression was they were more like a dirt bike, I never realized how much physical work is still needed.  I rode an older one a friend owns and wasnít too impressed, but I figured the new models were better, mine is better but not what I expected.  I said people who havenít ridden them donít have a clue because I was that person, I didnít really have a clue how good/bad they worked until I bought one. Iíd say the biggest advantage is, if your not in Karl Blanchard shape, lol, you donít end up pushing your bike and cart up the hill. But you still have to work, you canít just push the throttle and expect it to make any big hill, you have to pedal. 

I feel for ya on that. I agree with the earlier stated sentiment of getting out ahead of technology improvements and knowing that ebikes will only get "better" is enough in my mind to restrict them now. Even IF they aren't currently much of an advantage.
agree, Iíd like to see wa access, gates and restrictions be more like Idaho.  Seems every user group is taken care of and the hunting is good.
Would need more animals, such that there could be more 'success' without tech; then people wouldn't care as much what everyone else is doing.  Get longer seasons too.  Not just hunting, look at fishing regs.   :yike:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 10:02:19 AM
:yeah:

A list of all the things Karen is trying to ban and some on here are helping.

E BIKES
SCOPES ON MUZZLE LOADERS
BREACH LOADED MUZZIES
SNOW MOBILES
JEEPS
JET SKIIS
4 WHEELERS
DIRT BIKES
BARBED HOOKS
FISH HATCHERIES
TRAPPING
SNARES
BOX TRAPS
HUNTING
ETC.

THE LIST IS LONG AND THERE ARE A LOT OF KARENS IN THIS STATE,DON'T BE A KAREN.
Calling people names because they dont agree with you is a sure fire way to get your point across.  :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:03:23 AM
NOT CALLING ANYONE NAMES BUT NICE TRY.kAREN IS A WAY NOT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bigtex on September 22, 2020, 10:04:32 AM
WDFW is trying to go around law makers,on E BIKES.My self and others are seeking answers,to why?They have gone to the attorney generals office to ban E BIKES,on WDFW and sounds like,DNR LANDS in the state.
The agencies are not going around lawmakers. The legislature has delegated the authority to create rules for WDFW/DNR/State Park lands to the respective agencies. If WDFW wants to ban e-bikes on WDFW lands, they can do so. If WDFW wants to ban the possession of alcohol on WDFW lands, they can do so. This does not require legislative action.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hawks33 on September 22, 2020, 10:04:42 AM
:yeah:

A list of all the things Karen is trying to ban and some on here are helping.

E BIKES
SCOPES ON MUZZLE LOADERS
BREACH LOADED MUZZIES
SNOW MOBILES
JEEPS
JET SKIIS
4 WHEELERS
DIRT BIKES
BARBED HOOKS
FISH HATCHERIES
TRAPPING
SNARES
BOX TRAPS
HUNTING
ETC.

THE LIST IS LONG AND THERE ARE A LOT OF KARENS IN THIS STATE,DON'T BE A KAREN.

There are a lot of as*holes in this state too. Thought this conversation was about ebikes? Ebikes are a relatively new thing to hunting, having a conversation about that doesnt have to spill over into everything else.  My issue is ebikes give better access into some areas that allow some sanctuary to animals, just feel that from a conservation standpoint they should be limited to motorized areas. Gotta draw a line somewhere, thought that non motorized did that
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:08:31 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?

I hike in some,i also use a quad.but i don't hate on the guy using a 1000 general just because it cost 25K.

I boat i jet skii and i fish,don't care that people are having a good time while im fishing.its not all about me me me.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?
I feel that hipower rifles and scopes should not be banned in archery season. We must work together to lake sure rifles are allowed in archery season.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 10:10:52 AM
Idaho can't use 16# rifles, lighted nocks, expandables, pelletized powder, sabots, 209 primers, jacketed bullets among plenty of other restrictions.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bornhunter on September 22, 2020, 10:11:41 AM
I know! Jet packs just like james bond used. Have to promise not to hunt on the same day you fly🤞.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:12:33 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?
I feel that hipower rifles and scopes should not be banned in archery season. We must work together to lake sure rifles are allowed in archery season.
This is also out there,having limits during a certain season is not the same as having limits year round.  :o
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:14:28 AM
I know! Jet packs just like james bond used. Have to promise not to hunt on the same day you fly🤞.
Ok now its a joke,Just like this state has become. :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 10:16:13 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?
I feel that hipower rifles and scopes should not be banned in archery season. We must work together to lake sure rifles are allowed in archery season.
This is also out there,having limits during a certain season is not the same as having limits year round.  :o
how is that any different than allowing e bikes in motorized areas and not allowing them in non motorized areas?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 10:18:10 AM
Before this conversation goes on any further, i think some people need to understand that restricting and banning are two different things.
the government isnt coming to take your e bike, they're telling you that you cant use it where things with motors arent allowed.
Motor: noun
a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:19:49 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?
I feel that hipower rifles and scopes should not be banned in archery season. We must work together to lake sure rifles are allowed in archery season.
This is also out there,having limits during a certain season is not the same as having limits year round.  :o
how is that any different than allowing e bikes in motorized areas and not allowing them in non motorized areas?
ITS YEAR AROUND DIDNT YOU GET THAT PART?The e bike was designated as non motorized,people bought them,now they want to ban them.


What is the diff. between a chainsaw and an e bike in the woods?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 10:24:08 AM
This thread is also about banning something used by outdoor recs.and that includes everything else thats banned in my opinion.All the user groups need to work together more.For the better of all outdoor not just a group.

the photo enthusiast can take photos while someone is hunting can't they?
I feel that hipower rifles and scopes should not be banned in archery season. We must work together to lake sure rifles are allowed in archery season.
This is also out there,having limits during no motorized vehicles/ebikes ina certain seasonarea is not the same as having limits year round.No motorized vehicles/ebikes anywhere  :o
  I changed your statement and it seems like it is the same to me and not out there at all.  It's already reasonable to limit motor vehicles in certain areas why would you allow some motorized vehicles in a non motorized area?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:25:20 AM
Its not designated as a motorized vehicle,By the state.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KopperBuck on September 22, 2020, 10:25:50 AM
Its not designated as a motorized vehicle,By the state.

So then it should be, right?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:27:03 AM
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_WA_2019.pdf

no i don't think they should.

I asked whats the diff. between being allowing a chainsaw and an e bike?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
To me it seems like bikes with electric motors are being purchased in order to get around the rules in some areas that motorized vehicles are not allowed. Really no different than putting a very small gas motor on a bike and then trying to say it's not a motorized vehicle because it can't go very fast and it has a small fuel tank so it's range is limited.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 10:32:27 AM
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_WA_2019.pdf

no i don't think they should.

I asked whats the diff. between being allowing a chainsaw and an e bike?
i thought we were talking about motorized vehicle restrictions here, not internal combustion engine restrictions.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:35:31 AM
yes but what im asking is does one cause more damage or something in someones op,or is it just back to i dont have one so i dont want others to.are they loud?no are the damaging trails?are they polluting?just want to see where people are thats all.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 10:37:19 AM
Its not designated as a motorized vehicle,By the state.
I feel like Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is actually the state.  WDFW controls the land that I believe is state land.  They are saying that ebikes are motorized and not allowing them on their land.  You can still use them on private land.  You can use them in the national forest I believe.  You can use them on state land that is open to motorized vehicle access.  I certainly wouldn't call that banning ebikes everywhere.

I have a neighbor who bought ten acres next to timber company land so he could hunt the timber company land.  I bought the timber company land.  He is now pissed because the only reason he bought the 10 acres is so he could hunt the 500 next to him.  Things change.  Do I have to let him hunt because he previously owned the land next to me?  No.  Does WDFW have to let ebike owners continue to use the land because they bought the bike before the rule was in place? No.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
yes but what im asking is does one cause more damage or something in someones op,or is it just back to i dont have one so i dont want others to.are they loud?no are the damaging trails?are they polluting?just want to see where people are thats all.
Great questions.  I am sure there is a reason for it.

I know my issue with ebikes is the users aren't following the posted signage.  Either the no motorized vehicle signage or my no trespassing signs.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
Ok,ill agree.We better ban these i guess.Wind up flashlights.They are motorized.

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 10:42:32 AM
Again..
We are talking about motorized VEHICLES
If you can ride a flash light or a chainsaw, then you do you.

This is the same as certain lakes being restricted to Non motorized boats, or electric motors only, or any motors.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:43:54 AM
Were talking about regulating an already over regulated system.If someone could tell me why regulate this then maybe i can see their side,as of now i dont see it.The state already makes it very hard hunt and fish as it is adding more regulations against hunters as a hunter makes no sense to me.If it was loud ok.if it destroyed ok.if it polluted ok.The only thing im getting so far on here is i dont have one and they can get their before me so i dont like them and want them banned.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2020, 10:50:25 AM
I'm trying to tell you guys,
Cooperative road closure
Timber company's don't want you riding e bikes behind there gates period.

Go to this link and tell me you want all access gone.

http://www.eregulations.com/washington/hunting/cooperative-road-management-areas/
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 10:52:46 AM
Were talking about regulating an already over regulated system.If someone could tell me why regulate this then maybe i can see their side,as of now i dont see it.The state already makes it very hard hunt and fish as it is adding more regulations against hunters as a hunter makes no sense to me.If it was loud ok.if it destroyed ok.if it polluted ok.The only thing im getting so far on here is i dont have one and they can get their before me so i dont like them and want them banned.  :twocents:
I think they had a no motorized vehicle rule.  People bought electric (motor driven) bikes and said they were "bikes".  WDFW is saying they are motorized and not allowed.  I don't think they changed their rule I think they clarified what they think a motor is.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 22, 2020, 10:58:48 AM
Were talking about regulating an already over regulated system.If someone could tell me why regulate this then maybe i can see their side,as of now i dont see it.The state already makes it very hard hunt and fish as it is adding more regulations against hunters as a hunter makes no sense to me.If it was loud ok.if it destroyed ok.if it polluted ok.The only thing im getting so far on here is i dont have one and they can get their before me so i dont like them and want them banned.  :twocents:
I think they had a no motorized vehicle rule.  People bought electric (motor driven) bikes and said they were "bikes".  WDFW is saying they are motorized and not allowed.  I don't think they changed their rule I think they clarified what they think a motor is.
exactly.
it'd be like if there was an electric only lake and a guy shows up with a new 250 hp electric outboard on a bass boat.
Restrictions are going to have to change.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
 :tup: i see that.

Hope they dont clarify a bicycle as a vehicle next.

its all good,user groups will always be against other user groups unless someone can make a change.
 same same though.is walking on the trails less intrusive to the wildlife than riding a quiet cat on the same trail?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 11:03:01 AM
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_WA_2019.pdf

no i don't think they should.

I asked whats the diff. between being allowing a chainsaw and an e bike?
Did you read the link you posted? It says that they are currently treated like motorized vehicles and allowed where motorized vehicles are allowed.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 11:03:18 AM
Whoa, 250hp "tesla" bass boat would be sweet!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:03:58 AM
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_WA_2019.pdf

no i don't think they should.

I asked whats the diff. between being allowing a chainsaw and an e bike?
Did you read the link you posted? It says that they are currently treated like motorized vehicles and allowed where motorized vehicles are allowed.
yeah i read it and they are on fed lands not state
................... does not currently have
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 11:04:32 AM
This is a good convo, hopefully y'all can continue to discuss w/o name calling



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
LMFAO. I need one of these ride-able chainsaws. I suppose everything has a balance point, maybe it can be done.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 11:05:42 AM
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_WA_2019.pdf

no i don't think they should.

I asked whats the diff. between being allowing a chainsaw and an e bike?
Did you read the link you posted? It says that they are currently treated like motorized vehicles and allowed where motorized vehicles are allowed.
yeah i read it and they are on fed lands not state
................... does not currently have
im not sure what juristiction that office has, ive never even heard of them but it says they expect them to be treated like motorized.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 11:07:28 AM
I've strongly considered an ebike, but with all the rules still being considered, push back and what-not, I've held off on getting one.





Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:10:28 AM
like i said i dont have one,out of my price range.but that doesnt mean i think they should ban something just because it gives a hunter a little more area to hunt in an ever shortening day with a lot less opportunity because of more and more regulations.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2020, 11:12:03 AM
Non motorized bike=No motor
That is what it says
Timber company says NO MOTOR
Otherwise you are breaking the rules of access.
Honestly this has been coming ,cause people have to bend the rules."Washington State says it's not motorized"
But the land owner says NO MOTOR .
I mean really who do you guys think is gonna say what you can do on there land?
Do you guys really believe the state of Washington can say what's legal on timber land.
Land owner sets the rules
Follow the rules or have no access
It's black and white, plain simple truth.
I'm gonna bet on the land owner that allows access.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:14:00 AM
Non motorized bike=No motor
That is what it says
Timber company says NO MOTOR
Otherwise you are breaking the rules of access.
Honestly this has been coming ,cause people have to bend the rules."Washington State says it's not motorized"
But the land owner says NO MOTOR .
I mean really who do you guys think is gonna say what you can do on there land?
Do you guys really believe the state of Washington can say what's legal on timber land.
Land owner sets the rules
Follow the rules or have no access
It's black and white, plain simple truth.
I'm gonna bet on the land owner that allows access.
we got it,land owner rules no problem.were not talking about private owned lands.were talking about regulating everything to regulate out the hunter fisherman of this state period without any bounds on doing it either.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 11:21:42 AM
I donít think they should be banned because it gives someone an ďadvantageĒ I just see them as motorized vehicles and can be used where motorized vehicles can be used and not used where motorized vehicles are not allowed. With that said I have never seen one while hunting anyway   :tung:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2020, 11:25:45 AM
Non motorized bike=No motor
That is what it says
Timber company says NO MOTOR
Otherwise you are breaking the rules of access.
Honestly this has been coming ,cause people have to bend the rules."Washington State says it's not motorized"
But the land owner says NO MOTOR .
I mean really who do you guys think is gonna say what you can do on there land?
Do you guys really believe the state of Washington can say what's legal on timber land.
Land owner sets the rules
Follow the rules or have no access
It's black and white, plain simple truth.
I'm gonna bet on the land owner that allows access.
we got it,land owner rules no problem.were not talking about private owned lands.were talking about regulating everything to regulate out the hunter fisherman of this state period without any bounds on doing it either.
I will chime in one more time for ya OhMah
I have no question in my mind that somebody somewhere was on a e bike where it was closed road ,private land owner, ECT .And the first thing out of there mouth was WDFW says it's ok,state of Washington says it's legal.Now WDFW is changed there rule.Some one on a e bike stuck the last straw on the camels back.

Edit due to autocorrect changing Ohmah to Omaha Rainier10
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:28:52 AM
now that i can beleive.All they need is an excuse to flex just like charging for access on land that was purchased with access agreements through tax reliefs.but thats a diff topic.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 11:29:44 AM
Non motorized bike=No motor
That is what it says
Timber company says NO MOTOR
Otherwise you are breaking the rules of access.
Honestly this has been coming ,cause people have to bend the rules."Washington State says it's not motorized"
But the land owner says NO MOTOR .
I mean really who do you guys think is gonna say what you can do on there land?
Do you guys really believe the state of Washington can say what's legal on timber land.
Land owner sets the rules
Follow the rules or have no access
It's black and white, plain simple truth.
I'm gonna bet on the land owner that allows access.
if I go by federal law, my 750 watt ebike isnít considered motorized.  I had the written definition but canít find it.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 11:32:45 AM
Found it
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Cougartail on September 22, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
You have to draw the line somewhere and they did that long ago with ďno motorized vehiclesĒ an electric motor is a motor.. you start letting electric bikes in then what is next?

Some guy with an electric wheelchair will be heading down the trail..  lol
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 11:45:22 AM
Found it
That's the one the guy quoted to me when I was behind a non motorized vehicle gate.  He said that he specifically bought one with a smaller motor so he could drive it in non motorized areas.  I just went on my way but the way he was acting I could certainly see someone raising a stink and having WDFW elaborate on what their definition of a motor was.  If the guy wasn't so blantant and boisterous about it it wouldn't have gone any farther.  I talked to a few other hunters up there that were pretty pissed off about him being behind the gate and especially his attitude about it.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: huntnfmly on September 22, 2020, 11:46:53 AM
Non motorized bike=No motor
That is what it says
Timber company says NO MOTOR
Otherwise you are breaking the rules of access.
Honestly this has been coming ,cause people have to bend the rules."Washington State says it's not motorized"
But the land owner says NO MOTOR .
I mean really who do you guys think is gonna say what you can do on there land?
Do you guys really believe the state of Washington can say what's legal on timber land.
Land owner sets the rules
Follow the rules or have no access
It's black and white, plain simple truth.
I'm gonna bet on the land owner that allows access.
if I go by federal law, my 750 watt ebike isnít considered motorized.  I had the written definition but canít find it.
Less than 750 so your bike would be considered a motorized bike
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 11:52:04 AM
Found it
That's the one the guy quoted to me when I was behind a non motorized vehicle gate.  He said that he specifically bought one with a smaller motor so he could drive it in non motorized areas.  I just went on my way but the way he was acting I could certainly see someone raising a stink and having WDFW elaborate on what their definition of a motor was.  If the guy wasn't so blantant and boisterous about it it wouldn't have gone any farther.  I talked to a few other hunters up there that were pretty pissed off about him being behind the gate and especially his attitude about it.
kind of like the way some are with their second amendment rights?blatent because in this day and age you sometimes have to be or the system will run all over you.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on September 22, 2020, 11:54:22 AM
You have to draw the line somewhere and they did that long ago with ďno motorized vehiclesĒ an electric motor is a motor.. you start letting electric bikes in then what is next?

Some guy with an electric wheelchair will be heading down the trail..  lol

Iím going to have tracks on mine.🤣
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 11:58:34 AM
Found it
That's the one the guy quoted to me when I was behind a non motorized vehicle gate.  He said that he specifically bought one with a smaller motor so he could drive it in non motorized areas.  I just went on my way but the way he was acting I could certainly see someone raising a stink and having WDFW elaborate on what their definition of a motor was.  If the guy wasn't so blantant and boisterous about it it wouldn't have gone any farther.  I talked to a few other hunters up there that were pretty pissed off about him being behind the gate and especially his attitude about it.
I hear ya and understand why other were pissed, but if you have one law saying you are good and you're not breaking any laws, who decides?  That piece of paper is a big reason I also went with 750 instead of the 1000. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 11:59:18 AM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Huh?  So i can break federal law if I'm not on federal land? 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Sutherland on September 22, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
Here comes the popcorn...
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: predatorpro on September 22, 2020, 12:09:18 PM
Nothing better than watching hunters fighting each other....Ēi dont like the way you hunt so you shouldnt be able to hunt that way!Ē Anti hunting groups dont even need to be around anymore...hunters will take their own opportunities away without their help!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 22, 2020, 12:11:15 PM
People that bend the rules are the reason new rules are put in place.

You wana e bike into gated area's that don't allow motorized access go for it.
Gives me piece of mind knowing you won't ditch your 3k dollar bike into the brush to hunt off the road. So I still have the steep and deep all to myself. Yes, I'm selfish.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Igor on September 22, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
Nothing better than watching hunters fighting each other....Ēi dont like the way you hunt so you shouldnt be able to hunt that way!Ē Anti hunting groups dont even need to be around anymore...hunters will take their own opportunities away without their help!

And..............."How did you get up here?  Don't you know that I have hunted this area for 30 years and this is MY area?"
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 22, 2020, 12:16:32 PM
Nothing better than watching hunters fighting each other....Ēi dont like the way you hunt so you shouldnt be able to hunt that way!Ē Anti hunting groups dont even need to be around anymore...hunters will take their own opportunities away without their help!

This is a thread about motorized bikes on public land not hunting methods so that would be very a weak argument from the pro-ebike perspective. Furthermore this same thing has already been done; new tech emerges and law enforcement/ land managers decide when/where/how/if it can be used. Happened recently with drones and lighted nocks.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: RockChuck on September 22, 2020, 12:19:08 PM
You have to draw the line somewhere and they did that long ago with ďno motorized vehiclesĒ an electric motor is a motor.. you start letting electric bikes in then what is next?





Some guy with an electric wheelchair will be heading down the trail..  lol

Iím going to have tracks on mine.🤣


Oh they are already out there!! I saw a pic of a camo one!  :chuckle: :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 12:23:52 PM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Huh?  So i can break federal law if I'm not on federal land?
Yep, federal law says you can't smoke marijuana but the state says its ok, translation you can break federal law if you are not on federal land.  Feds say a 750 watt motor isn't a motor, state says a motor is a motor and no motorized vehicles on certain state land.  It's the same as the state closing their land due to fire danger, the national forest is still open for target shooting.

Did you honestly not think you were taking advantage of a loophole when you bought a 750 watt motorized bike versus a 100 watt motorized bike?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 12:32:21 PM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Huh?  So i can break federal law if I'm not on federal land?
Yep, federal law says you can't smoke marijuana but the state says its ok, translation you can break federal law if you are not on federal land.  Feds say a 750 watt motor isn't a motor, state says a motor is a motor and no motorized vehicles on certain state land.  It's the same as the state closing their land due to fire danger, the national forest is still open for target shooting.

Did you honestly not think you were taking advantage of a loophole when you bought a 750 watt motorized bike versus a 100 watt motorized bike?
It's not just the feds muddying up the water.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.169
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: trophyhunt on September 22, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Huh?  So i can break federal law if I'm not on federal land?
Yep, federal law says you can't smoke marijuana but the state says its ok, translation you can break federal law if you are not on federal land.  Feds say a 750 watt motor isn't a motor, state says a motor is a motor and no motorized vehicles on certain state land.  It's the same as the state closing their land due to fire danger, the national forest is still open for target shooting.

Did you honestly not think you were taking advantage of a loophole when you bought a 750 watt motorized bike versus a 100 watt motorized bike?
I wouldn't say taking advantage, I was trying to stay legal to be honest.  Figured the 750 rules would spread, but that shows how smart I am living in wa where all they do is think of new laws daily.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 12:42:18 PM
Federal rules only apply on federal land.
Huh?  So i can break federal law if I'm not on federal land?
Yep, federal law says you can't smoke marijuana but the state says its ok, translation you can break federal law if you are not on federal land.  Feds say a 750 watt motor isn't a motor, state says a motor is a motor and no motorized vehicles on certain state land.  It's the same as the state closing their land due to fire danger, the national forest is still open for target shooting.

Did you honestly not think you were taking advantage of a loophole when you bought a 750 watt motorized bike versus a 100 watt motorized bike?
I wouldn't say taking advantage, I was trying to stay legal to be honest.  Figured the 750 rules would spread, but that shows how smart I am living in wa where all they do is think of new laws daily.
:tup: We just see it different.  I think the feds made a new law by saying a 750 watt motor isn't a motor and WDFW says on their land a motor is a motor, electric, gas, 500watts, 750 watts or 1,000 watts it's a motor.

I do think that if ebike owners had lobbied the WDFW to follow the federal definition of a motor there wouldn't be a problem.  The issue is that the state said no motorized vehicles and the ebike users took there motorized bikes behind those signs based on a federal definition of a motor.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Colville on September 22, 2020, 12:46:30 PM
Ultimately, why is there a restriction to motors to begin with?  Part is the degradation of trails and or off road damage. But the real nut, trying to manage the number, frequency and distribution of people into important habitat.  Horses are very thinly owned and used for this purpose. Banning them would have little effect on total users.  E-bikes will become lower cost and more effective.  In time, they'll increase; the number of users, the frequency of use and the depth into the woods those users will penetrate.  It's not a hunting season issue.  We have a very high population base to land ratio.  If nothing is done to create habitat sinks that are rarely visited, it's bad for game.  This isn't a good user/bad user group discussion. The question is, how to keep the forests available to use, without getting to overuse and harm.  I think the no-motorized access is a sound solution and e-bikes may not be a dramatic motor today, but they will certainly get there.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
 :yeah: Well said.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Hillbilly Zen on September 22, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
I would rather have true wilderness for my children to experience that is only accessible by foot travel at substantial effort Than be able to hunt beyond my prime in such places.  Eff the e-bikes.  The wilderness is far too valuable.  All men are not entitled to reach all places on this planet until their dying day.  As soon as we bend to this mentality we will wipe out all places worth struggling to get to.  We age.  We die.  Our bodies grow and then they deteriorate.  Thatís the way of it. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
The rcw linked in jimmy hoffas post does nothing more than define ďelectric assist bicycleĒ. It does not say they are or arent motorized according to state law. It also doesnt say where they are or arent allowed.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Bullkllr on September 22, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Amazon says my jet-pack should be here by 5:00!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Igor on September 22, 2020, 12:54:08 PM
I would rather have true wilderness for my children to experience that is only accessible by foot travel at substantial effort Than be able to hunt beyond my prime in such places.  Eff the e-bikes.  The wilderness is far too valuable.  All men are not entitled to reach all places on this planet until their dying day.  As soon as we bend to this mentality we will wipe out all places worth struggling to get to.  We age.  We die.  Our bodies grow and then they deteriorate.  Thatís the way of it.

As much as it pains my arthritic knees to say it, I totally agree with you !!  I've been to some of those beautiful, pristine wilderness places, and truly hope that they stay that way.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Rainier10 on September 22, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
I know for a fact I will not be able to cover as much ground this year as I did 10 years ago and I am good with that.  My guess is I will be just as successful and maybe even more successful.  I will have to slow down and that will probably allow me to see more game that I may have spooked off in my youth or driven by on an eBike. :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 02:18:34 PM
Ultimately, why is there a restriction to motors to begin with?  Part is the degradation of trails and or off road damage. But the real nut, trying to manage the number, frequency and distribution of people into important habitat.  Horses are very thinly owned and used for this purpose. Banning them would have little effect on total users.  E-bikes will become lower cost and more effective.  In time, they'll increase; the number of users, the frequency of use and the depth into the woods those users will penetrate.  It's not a hunting season issue.  We have a very high population base to land ratio.  If nothing is done to create habitat sinks that are rarely visited, it's bad for game.  This isn't a good user/bad user group discussion. The question is, how to keep the forests available to use, without getting to overuse and harm.  I think the no-motorized access is a sound solution and e-bikes may not be a dramatic motor today, but they will certainly get there.
well said,i can agree for these reasons in these areas.if these were the only areas being discussed and this was the only issue being brought forward against all outdoors man and women.and if i thought it would end there.  :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: csaaphill on September 22, 2020, 02:42:45 PM
WDFW is trying to go around law makers,on E BIKES.My self and others are seeking answers,to why?They have gone to the attorney generals office to ban E BIKES,on WDFW and sounds like,DNR LANDS in the state.Why I ask?????? to many complaints from other hunters, but I said the law is the law,and it clearly states our bikes are classified as bicycles.MYSELF AND OTHERS have made a major investment in theses bicycles,and with no imput from the user group,tells me where we stand as hunters in this state.In talking with the chief of region 5 law enforcement he said he's for the bike but Olympia is against them.Im urging all of this user group to have your voices heard at your county state and federal level.To myself and others its spreads people out, and gives people a quality of hunt.KEEP OUR PUBLIC LANDS PUBLIC !!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry your probably screwed with this bunch! :sry:
Funny how democracy is bad only when it's aimed at guns but way cool when it's something the elites don't like.  :chuckle: >:(
Meh! I have ran into motorcycles out in the woods walking Over in the Pomeroy area and was surprised by it, but it was whisper quiet as it passed me on this old logging road or skidder, I was a bit miffed as some of the statements here have said but I now say to each their own. I've often thought of how I might like one that is that quiet save my legs and back etc...
I guess dude find a site that is more friendly to freedom this site isn't!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 22, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
No different than using a motorcycle.  When you can do 20 miles on a charge, they shouldnít be allowed.  It allows those on motorized bikes to pass by those that are putting in the working.  Lazy hunting at its best.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 02:50:37 PM
People that bend the rules are the reason new rules are put in place.

You wana e bike into gated area's that don't allow motorized access go for it.
Gives me piece of mind knowing you won't ditch your 3k dollar bike into the brush to hunt off the road. So I still have the steep and deep all to myself. Yes, I'm selfish.
the rule was in place e bikes were not motorized vehicles,there was no bending of the rules.they were not designated so they could be used,the rule change is because hunters complained alongside of other user groups attacking each other all the time.........we could all achieve way more if everyone worked together instead of against each other.everyone that don't see that can take blame in everything they take away from us all.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 02:59:05 PM
No different than using a motorcycle.  When you can do 20 miles on a charge, they shouldnít be allowed.  It allows those on motorized bikes to pass by those that are putting in the working.  Lazy hunting at its best.
is it the same as a group in the back of a truck passing the hunters that are walking up getting dropped off at the top to come down through the canyon?yeah them lazy hunters.who cares if you get passed on the trail,really.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Jingles on September 22, 2020, 03:01:09 PM
Mtn bikes, dirt bikes and e bikes ruined any chance I had at filling a UT Elk tag last year so as far as I'm concerned anything with wheels no further than the trailhead
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 22, 2020, 03:05:39 PM
I've never claimed e bikes are motor vehicles. They are motorized modes of transportation.  The gates I hunt say no motorized access/ motorized access restricted. No segway, no electric scooters, no electric game carts...its really simple. Its not new rules. Your hung up on loosing "rights". Seriously take a breath. There are plenty of places to ride motorized transportation, and very few places left where I can get away from said styles of transportation.  If that mentality makes me a bad person in your eyes so be it. I'll continue to seek my solitude where I can find it.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
its not a bad thought,your op is yours and that is your right.none of this is about rights its all about 1 stopping another from being able to do something that does not in any way harm anyone or anything.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 03:14:18 PM
I dunno about having to have "wildlife sinks" or big areas of roadless areas for the sake of wildlife.

I just spent a week in Idaho and there's roads freaking everywhere, and throngs of ATVS behind 50 inch gates and I seen more moose, elk, deer than in any roadless area, or in wa literally anywhere.

Cutblock logging with access everywhere makes for one helluva lot of game!,

this was otc too...its a "meat unit" that puts out a lot of rag horns

They also blast every predator they come across too ;)

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: SGTDuffman on September 22, 2020, 03:18:26 PM
I donít understand what part of ďno motorized accessĒ is hard to understand. Doesnít matter if the motor is gas or electric. Theyíve never been allowed. Theyíre still not allowed. You arenít losing anything. You were never supposed to access these areas with E-bikes in the first place. The fact that is says E-ďbikeĒ doesnít mean it get treated like a bicycle, it has an electric motor, you canít use it. Thatís why that restriction was worded the way it was. They arenít changing anything, but it seems they have to clarify it for people who donít know what motors are.

They arenít allowed there to keep our wild places wild, limit impacts to animals, and mitigate fire dangers.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 03:18:45 PM
What we need is more roads opened, existing roads cleared out and gates removed.

That'll spread out hunters, then its not a competition to see who can get back further faster....

But he's using a motor!! Not fair!![/i]

Its all crap imo. Squabbling over shrinking access and dwindling game numbers.

We fight, WDFW clamps down, figure out who the real enemy is folks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: csaaphill on September 22, 2020, 03:23:09 PM
I dunno about having to have "wildlife sinks" or big areas of roadless areas for the sake of wildlife.

I just spent a week in Idaho and there's roads freaking everywhere, and throngs of ATVS behind 50 inch gates and I seen more moose, elk, deer than in any roadless area, or in wa literally anywhere.

Cutblock logging with access everywhere makes for one helluva lot of game!,

this was otc too...its a "meat unit" that puts out a lot of rag horns

They also blast every predator they come across too ;)

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
As one that has family up there and have been there many times not for hunting per see but just to drive along with my brother-in-law or camping yes Idaho is free that way.
A whole lot of stuff that people here cringe on is legal or at least looked the other way on up there. So yeah freedom is up there! :chuckle: :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: SGTDuffman on September 22, 2020, 03:26:02 PM
I'm curious, all you haters, do you have any bad examples of ebike riders in the woods ruining your hunt? Was it behind a non motorized gate or did they just beat you to a spot?  I've been in the woods most my life and don't think I've even seen one in the woods?

I saw a bunch of them going behind locked gates in timber lands closed to everyone for fire danger last week. Outside of the fire closure, motorized access is always forbidden on those properties anyways. Aside from E-bike users, there were tons of ďhuntersĒ also disregarding the timber land closures, and the campfire bans on state land as well.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Curly on September 22, 2020, 03:31:18 PM
What we need is more roads opened, existing roads cleared out and gates removed.

That'll spread out hunters, then its not a competition to see who can get back further faster....

But he's using a motor!! Not fair!![/i]

Its all crap imo. Squabbling over shrinking access and dwindling game numbers.

We fight, WDFW clamps down, figure out who the real enemy is folks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 :yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 03:39:34 PM
I see a few posts on this thread saying that hunters need to stick together and be united... well why is it only that we need to be united pro e bike access? Why cant we all agree that they are motorized vehicles and should be treated as such?

Or we can all be a united front so long as it fits ones individual opinions?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
I see a few posts on this thread saying that hunters need to stick together and be united... well why is it only that we need to be united pro e bike access? Why cant we all agree that they are motorized vehicles and should be treated as such?

Or we can all be a united front so long as it fits ones individual opinions?
We been saying that on many many issues, from baiting to ATVS to ebikes..

See @bearpaw sig line!


Guys w/o ebikes want them outta non-motorized areas..

Guys w ebikes want them designated non-motorized,  as per state and federal law

It's a tough argument either side you land on!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: buckfvr on September 22, 2020, 03:53:00 PM
I know, lets just give e-bikers their own season.  Feb 1st thru feb 2nd.  4pt minimum, deer or elk. 
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 03:54:10 PM
Thanks for writing that, and I agree some areas need protection...for sure.

But many many areas are closed off and its designated a "wildlife desert" by the colville tribe, the only thing a lack of roads is doing is ensuring difficult fire truck access.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2020, 03:58:47 PM
I see a few posts on this thread saying that hunters need to stick together and be united... well why is it only that we need to be united pro e bike access? Why cant we all agree that they are motorized vehicles and should be treated as such?

Or we can all be a united front so long as it fits ones individual opinions?
We been saying that on many many issues, from baiting to ATVS to ebikes..

See @bearpaw sig line!


Guys w/o ebikes want them outta non-motorized areas..

Guys w ebikes want them designated non-motorized,  as per state and federal law

It's a tough argument either side you land on!
True story
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 04:03:51 PM
I'm on the fence, I haven't bought an ebike because threads like this, and closures to the bikes.

It would have come in handy a few times though, but the last elk I packed an ebike would have been zero help.

It was straight uphill from the truck, then over the top down into the next drainage.

Elk were bedding where ATVs couldn't access.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: buckfvr on September 22, 2020, 04:06:35 PM
I see a few posts on this thread saying that hunters need to stick together and be united... well why is it only that we need to be united pro e bike access? Why cant we all agree that they are motorized vehicles and should be treated as such?

Or we can all be a united front so long as it fits ones individual opinions?

Ya its totally ludicrous.  Not all hunters are even close to being of the same mind.  I cant simply identify as a hunter without tons of reservations based entirely on other guys who identify as hunters.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
I see a few posts on this thread saying that hunters need to stick together and be united... well why is it only that we need to be united pro e bike access? Why cant we all agree that they are motorized vehicles and should be treated as such?

Or we can all be a united front so long as it fits ones individual opinions?

Ya its totally ludicrous.  Not all hunters are even close to being of the same mind.  I cant simply identify as a hunter without tons of reservations based entirely on other guys who identify as hunters.
Glad y'all said that, and of course we're not of a hive mind.

But everyone hates something someone else loves, from long range hunting, to archery, to 209's to ebikes, to barbed hooks and live bait, catch and release, to atvs, to horses trucks, gated or non gated...

Freaking everyone hates something and wants it banned (but don't ban that thing they like!)

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
No, that's just solid management. 

but what we get is:

/ignore herd health

protect predators

corral people in small areas
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
This e bike issue is so simple. Why make it more complicated than it is? An e bike has a motor, therefore it's a motorized vehicle. Areas closed to motorized vehicles are closed to bicycles with an electric motor. That's an entirely different issue than should certain areas be gated or not.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: predatorpro on September 22, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
Well how about we just make it so no one can go there to make it fair for both sides.  Atleast thats how i deal with my kids when they act like this.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: sagerat on September 22, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
This e bike issue is so simple. Why make it more complicated than it is? An e bike has a motor, therefore it's a motorized vehicle. Areas closed to motorized vehicles are closed to bicycles with an electric motor. That's an entirely different issue than should certain areas be gated or not.

I agree, how did this ever become an issue. A motorized vehicle is a motorized vehicle, close the loop holes!
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2020, 08:12:35 PM
This e bike issue is so simple. Why make it more complicated than it is? An e bike has a motor, therefore it's a motorized vehicle. Areas closed to motorized vehicles are closed to bicycles with an electric motor. That's an entirely different issue than should certain areas be gated or not.

I agree, how did this ever become an issue. A motorized vehicle is a motorized vehicle, close the loop holes!
My understanding is that by calling them motorized, it was requiring city riders/commuters to have to get motorcycle licenses and prevented where they could ride.  It wasn't really a hunting thing.  If someone in the city wanted to ride a 'bike trail' to go downtown/go down a sidewalk/ride a sidestreet, then they had to deal with being treated as a motorcycle.  So, now with the various laws/classifications, if you meet the requirements you can ride a bike trail by some duck ponds or in the bike lanes that go through downtown.  Just kind of spilled over into the hunting world....kind of like if they can ride those trails for non-motorized, then maybe e-bikes can be used for gated roads that say non-motorized.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: sagerat on September 22, 2020, 08:14:47 PM
Sounds like a loophole that could be used to oneís advantage
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on September 22, 2020, 08:52:50 PM
This e bike issue is so simple. Why make it more complicated than it is? An e bike has a motor, therefore it's a motorized vehicle. Areas closed to motorized vehicles are closed to bicycles with an electric motor. That's an entirely different issue than should certain areas be gated or not.

I agree, how did this ever become an issue. A motorized vehicle is a motorized vehicle, close the loop holes!
My understanding is that by calling them motorized, it was requiring city riders/commuters to have to get motorcycle licenses and prevented where they could ride.  It wasn't really a hunting thing.  If someone in the city wanted to ride a 'bike trail' to go downtown/go down a sidewalk/ride a sidestreet, then they had to deal with being treated as a motorcycle.  So, now with the various laws/classifications, if you meet the requirements you can ride a bike trail by some duck ponds or in the bike lanes that go through downtown.  Just kind of spilled over into the hunting world....kind of like if they can ride those trails for non-motorized, then maybe e-bikes can be used for gated roads that say non-motorized.

Rcw specifically states electric bicycles are exempt from endorsement requirements.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JakeLand on September 22, 2020, 08:58:11 PM
I bought one this year and itís sweet ! I see more damage from people leaving trash and damage from horses then my ebike ever does
What Damage does a ebike do to the terrain? Nothing does it allow us to get further yes in a way , batteryís only last so much  youíre still limited as youíre not going to pedal it very good as itís 78 pounds
Ban ebikes then ban horses period
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Bango skank on September 22, 2020, 09:14:29 PM
I bought one this year and itís sweet ! I see more damage from people leaving trash and damage from horses then my ebike ever does
What Damage does a ebike do to the terrain? Nothing does it allow us to get further yes in a way , batteryís only last so much  youíre still limited as youíre not going to pedal it very good as itís 78 pounds
Ban ebikes then ban horses period

Motorized horses are not allowed either.  Just regular bikes and regular horses
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2020, 09:17:54 PM
I bought one this year and itís sweet ! I see more damage from people leaving trash and damage from horses then my ebike ever does
What Damage does a ebike do to the terrain? Nothing does it allow us to get further yes in a way , batteryís only last so much  youíre still limited as youíre not going to pedal it very good as itís 78 pounds
Ban ebikes then ban horses period
Like said many times
WDFW is not banning anything.
They never have been allowed on non motorized roads-closed roads.
Sorry for your luck ,I think many e bike user are gonna find out the hard way that they never have been allowed on closed roads.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bornhunter on September 22, 2020, 09:20:43 PM
I bought one this year and itís sweet ! I see more damage from people leaving trash and damage from horses then my ebike ever does
What Damage does a ebike do to the terrain? Nothing does it allow us to get further yes in a way , batteryís only last so much  youíre still limited as youíre not going to pedal it very good as itís 78 pounds
Ban ebikes then ban horses period

Motorized horses are not allowed either.  Just regular bikes and regular horses

Thanks Bango. Just blew some of my beer out my nose :chuckle:  :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JakeLand on September 22, 2020, 09:20:48 PM
No motorized horses but regular horses do way more damage and thereís no denying it . Ebikes make it easier yes but a cake walk hell no
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bornhunter on September 22, 2020, 09:34:31 PM
I know! Jet packs just like james bond used. Have to promise not to hunt on the same day you fly🤞.
Ok now its a joke,Just like this state has become. :bash:

Sorry Oh mah. Just trying to keep things lite. This is a great topic with some really good input. Some here are taking some of the comments too personal and that's not good. We are all buds here. Plus some of the comments are funnier than hell!  For some reason Bango's electric horse comment just cracked me up.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: JakeLand on September 22, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
Well if they ban them maybe I could trade it for a donkey or a lama !
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Hillbilly Zen on September 22, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
I want to add to my ebike rant to include this:

Itís not a hunting issue for me so much as it is a wilderness ease of access issue.  And I donít see this as hunter vs hunter.  I said eff ebikes but thatís my political/policy perspective.   I see this as hunters very opinionated and voicing it amongst ourselves.  I will go so far as to say I will even vote against those who oppose my views And hope the dust of the law settles in favor of my own view.  BUT, itís like any other set of rules in life we have to play by.  Itís not like I wonít be friendly to you on the trail (I donít use many of those anyway!), or like I will try to sabotage your hunt because youíre on an ebike.  When Iím in the field, the rules are what they are.  I respect you as a hunter.  Any legal way you bring your game back to the freezer is fine by me.  In fact if you ebike in to wherever its decided they are allowed, I hope you are successful and have a great hunt!  The animosity is campfire talk: like chastising a Yankees fan or people who drink coffee you can see through.  In the morning your team is your team and your coffee is your coffee and weíre goin to hunt some deer so who cares. Is This is supposed to be a safe place for hunters to talk it out or are we supposed to blow smoke up each otherís backsides every post?  Iím new here.  Maybe I have it wrong 😜
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 22, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
I know! Jet packs just like james bond used. Have to promise not to hunt on the same day you fly🤞.
Ok now its a joke,Just like this state has become. :bash:

Sorry Oh mah. Just trying to keep things lite. This is a great topic with some really good input. Some here are taking some of the comments too personal and that's not good. We are all buds here. Plus some of the comments are funnier than hell!  For some reason Bango's electric horse comment just cracked me up.
It is a serious issue but the motorized horse got me a little also.
I want to add to my ebike rant to include this:

Itís not a hunting issue for me so much as it is a wilderness ease of access issue.  And I donít see this as hunter vs hunter.  I said eff ebikes but thatís my political/policy perspective.   I see this as hunters very opinionated and voicing it amongst ourselves.  I will go so far as to say I will even vote against those who oppose my views And hope the dust of the law settles in favor of my own view.  BUT, itís like any other set of rules in life we have to play by.  Itís not like I wonít be friendly to you on the trail (I donít use many of those anyway!), or like I will try to sabotage your hunt because youíre on an ebike.  When Iím in the field, the rules are what they are.  I respect you as a hunter.  Any legal way you bring your game back to the freezer is fine by me.  In fact if you ebike in to wherever its decided they are allowed, I hope you are successful and have a great hunt!  The animosity is campfire talk: like chastising a Yankees fan or people who drink coffee you can see through.  In the morning your team is your team and your coffee is your coffee and weíre goin to hunt some deer so who cares. Is This is supposed to be a safe place for hunters to talk it out or are we supposed to blow smoke up each otherís backsides every post?  Iím new here.  Maybe I have it wrong 😜
right or wrong you and i dont get to choose,the law as some keep saying is what the anti everything lobbying bureaucrats in Olympia decide they want them to be.All i'm saying and no one has to agree with any or all stances but if you are on a side trying to strip how someone else does things at least have a good reasoning behind it.It was not illegal when they were made,i wish that 1 would stop saying that.when e bikes were made there was a reason for them not to be designated as a vehicle one of the great selling points for them was the outdoor use on trail rides.not just licensing and insurance.it has already been shown on here with the fed. law that was posted for fed. lands so its not just the state that had the designated the way they were.

This is new whether some want to admit it or not,they have been making e bikes for years,they are mostly made here in the U.S,they have 0 emissions,they are quieter than a generator,They don't leave any trace behind other than tread marks not unlike a pair of boots.and everyone is allowed their opinion on the subject even me.I could care less if anyone used them or not but i feel very strongly that we as Americans need industry to come back and to hinder sales because of some semantic point(its got a motor on it)like everyone on here don't know the diff.User group against user group needs to stop as has been said by many many time's,At least when its something like this that dont amount to anything to anyone for any good reason.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 23, 2020, 07:14:05 AM
I really don't get the confusion on the subject.

I'm not saying you cant own an e-bike. I'm not even saying you cant ride an e-bike. I'm just saying you cant ride an e-bike on gated roads designated non MOTORIZED access. ( In my best Sam Elliot voice)

Not trying to ban or outlaw anything. Just trying to point out that most of the gates I hunt behind have wording that includes "non motorized access". It seems simple. The signs have been there for years. Its not my land to make the rules for. And the rules are there for a reason. If you don't like it petition to have the rules changed or hunt somewhere that allows you to access the land the way you want to.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Skyvalhunter on September 23, 2020, 07:17:49 AM
By the way that was a poor representation of a Sam Elliot voice. Maybe try Clint Eastwood or something :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 23, 2020, 07:29:57 AM
By the way that was a poor representation of a Sam Elliot voice. Maybe try Clint Eastwood or something :chuckle:

 :chuckle:If you remember Tombstone that's kind of what I was going for.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Seabass on September 23, 2020, 08:02:16 AM
I wish it was possible to distinguish between pedal assist and straight up electric bike. I have ridden the pedal assist versions. They help but you canít push a button and go...your ass has to pedal.

Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Platensek-po on September 23, 2020, 08:22:44 AM
I also am of the camp that says if it has a motor itís motorized. Not sure why people keep talking about a ban? Itís restricted not banned. I understand itís not a dirt bike or an atv but itís still a motorized vehicle. Around my house people ride atvs behind closed gates all year long. The timber company doesnít seem to care much and I donít either. But I do enjoy places where there are no motors.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 23, 2020, 08:58:40 AM
The designation is NOT just the fact that its a motor.  :bash: it is not being designated as a vehicle either.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Platensek-po on September 23, 2020, 09:02:50 AM
So a regular bike is a vehicle but a motorized one isnít?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Hillbilly Zen on September 23, 2020, 09:09:26 AM
Seriously considering twin 40hp electric motors on a 22 foot salmon boat for local pond fishing now.  Or maybe cruise down the Burke Gilman in a tesla?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Platensek-po on September 23, 2020, 09:12:07 AM
A bicycle is a legal road vehicle, just like a car. This means that bicycle riders have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers.
From WA DOT. So a bike with a motor would be a motorized vehicle right?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 23, 2020, 09:16:48 AM
A bicycle is a legal road vehicle, just like a car. This means that bicycle riders have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers.
From WA DOT. So a bike with a motor would be a motorized vehicle right?
Good point.  :tup:


So when a thief steals another kids bicycle they should be charged with stolen vehicle.   :o (is this better)?
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Platensek-po on September 23, 2020, 09:27:36 AM
You do know that when someone steals a car itís theft of a MOTOR vehicle right? So if a kid steals an electric bike maybe he will be charged with it. Doesnít mean a bicycle isnít a vehicle. These are simple terms that are easily defined.  :dunno:
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Oh Mah on September 23, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
You do know that when someone steals a car itís theft of a MOTOR vehicle right? So if a kid steals an electric bike maybe he will be charged with it. Doesnít mean a bicycle isnít a vehicle. These are simple terms that are easily defined.  :dunno:
yes lol  :chuckle: trying to joke about it but didnt get it across very good.you got me a few post back on the vehicle thing,that is in fact an old one so now i have to reconsider my stance on the matter in order to stay true to my beliefs on over reaching and regulating a free people.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 23, 2020, 09:37:39 AM
This is a little off topic but just think of the folks blowing stop signs:

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/rules-of-the-road/article245635760.html

 :bash: :bash:

Bicyclists treating stop signs as a yield.
Title: Re: WDFW going around law makers ????????????
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
This is a little off topic but just think of the folks blowing stop signs:

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/rules-of-the-road/article245635760.html

 :bash: :bash:

Bicyclists treating stop signs as a yield.

After reading the two articles, the new law seems to make sense. If it's safer to allow bicyclists to yield instead of coming to a complete stop, then I see nothing wrong with it.