Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 20, 2020, 11:16:26 AM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/tag/quotas/nonresident/deer
Post by: Cougeyes on November 20, 2020, 11:27:57 AM
Post by: Bango skank on November 20, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Way I read it is this eliminates a person's ability to even hunt late whitetail if they purchase the general deer tag? This is a way to strictly limit a non-resident hunter to a specific GMU and they can't bounce around to others, correct?
Why would it prevent you from hunting whitetail?
Post by: High Climber on November 20, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 20, 2020, 11:32:05 AM
Post by: bracer40 on November 20, 2020, 11:33:34 AM
Here they are folks
https://idfg.idaho.gov/tag/quotas/nonresident/deer
Elk tag (you know, for those of us who like hunting those dirty, stinky animals😂😜) info can be linked to from the same page.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 20, 2020, 11:33:53 AM
Way I read it is this eliminates a person's ability to even hunt late whitetail if they purchase the general deer tag? This is a way to strictly limit a non-resident hunter to a specific GMU and they can't bounce around to others, correct?
yup, tho maybe still buy second tag ????
Post by: High Climber on November 20, 2020, 11:40:27 AM
Way I read it is this eliminates a person's ability to even hunt late whitetail if they purchase the general deer tag? This is a way to strictly limit a non-resident hunter to a specific GMU and they can't bounce around to others, correct?
That’s correct, unless you picked a unit like 1 for example... with a general tag you could hunt mules or whities. This is a big loss for Nonres between having to pick one unit and the new quota system
Post by: BULLBLASTER on November 20, 2020, 11:40:51 AM
It no longer lets a guy head south and hunt mule deer and then if unsuccessful jump to the panhandle for the whitetail rut.Way I read it is this eliminates a person's ability to even hunt late whitetail if they purchase the general deer tag? This is a way to strictly limit a non-resident hunter to a specific GMU and they can't bounce around to others, correct?
Why would it prevent you from hunting whitetail?
Post by: Dhoey07 on November 20, 2020, 11:51:16 AM
Post by: ThurstonCokid on November 20, 2020, 11:52:54 AM
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Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 20, 2020, 12:00:45 PM
Post by: 2MANY on November 20, 2020, 12:24:29 PM
Meet wall.
Post by: RB on November 20, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on November 20, 2020, 01:06:00 PM
I wish they would have went with deer "Zones" instead of individual units.
Me too. Interesting they went this route
Post by: bearpaw on November 20, 2020, 01:10:12 PM
Post by: Pegasus on November 20, 2020, 01:23:46 PM
I am told it was done this way to spread non-resident pressure evenly across the state. Some units were over run with non-resident hunters while some units had as little as 3% non-resident hunters. The allocations are meant to put 10% to 15% nonresidents in each deer unit or elk zone. Overall there was no change in the statewide quotas for non-residents.
Thanks. That's an awfully nice way of telling non-residents that where they will be hunting has fewer animals or the terrain is difficult to access. Hunters normally pick units where the game resides and don't pick areas where there is little or no game to be had.
Post by: vandeman17 on November 20, 2020, 01:41:06 PM
I am told it was done this way to spread non-resident pressure evenly across the state. Some units were over run with non-resident hunters while some units had as little as 3% non-resident hunters. The allocations are meant to put 10% to 15% nonresidents in each deer unit or elk zone. Overall there was no change in the statewide quotas for non-residents.
This might be fine for people who have an area that they know and like but I see people who are trying to learn Idaho being at a disadvantage. Oh well, those are the rules and we have to play by them
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 20, 2020, 01:55:48 PM
That being said, I'm glad I bought the lifetime resident license before my job moved me to another state. I'd have a difficult time picking between the 4 units I have in mind for mule deer if I was a non resident trying to get my tag locked in for December 1.
Post by: JBar on November 20, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
Post by: Reidus on November 20, 2020, 02:06:41 PM
Well maybe if they do this for a year they'll finally realize the overcrowding is more new idaho residents than it is non residents.
I thought the same thing but the license sales aren't really up the last couple years like you'd think. Maybe the residents are spending more days hunting.
Post by: 7mmfan on November 20, 2020, 02:51:16 PM
Just curious, the units with low tag numbers is that because there are low Elk numbers, or more residents that want to hunt it?
From what I saw, they didn't adjust any elk quotas. The new unit restriction is only applicable to deer tags.
The established tag numbers per unit by looking at a 5 year average of how many hunters reported hunting that unit and then applied a quota that was 10%-15% of that number for non resident tags. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with game population.
Post by: Reidus on November 20, 2020, 02:59:46 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 03:37:40 PM
Non residents may be bitter about it right now, but this is a good thing going forward. Hopefully it will put less pressure on the deer in some units and will lower hunter density. I haven't dealt with other hunters since moving to a remote area for deer with less hunters overall and have had a way better experience.
That being said, I'm glad I bought the lifetime resident license before my job moved me to another state. I'd have a difficult time picking between the 4 units I have in mind for mule deer if I was a non resident trying to get my tag locked in for December 1.
My understanding is that you still have to buy a non resident tag, so you would still be screwed. I could be wrong tho, I'll look that up.
Post by: Limhangerslayer on November 20, 2020, 04:10:12 PM
Well maybe if they do this for a year they'll finally realize the overcrowding is more new idaho residents than it is non residents.:yeah:
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 20, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
Post by: Pegasus on November 20, 2020, 04:18:37 PM
LEWISTON — The Idaho Fish and Game Commission on Nov. 20 approved changes to nonresident participation in general season deer and elk hunts to address concerns from residents about hunter congestion in some areas. Starting 2021, nonresident hunters in most general season elk and deer hunts will be limited to 10 or 15 percent of the total hunters in each elk zone or deer unit based on hunter participation estimates averaged over the last five years. The new limits do not apply to capped elk zones.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fg-commission-approves-changes-nonresident-participation-general-season-deer-and-elk-hunts
Post by: Pegasus on November 20, 2020, 04:22:23 PM
Just curious, the units with low tag numbers is that because there are low Elk numbers, or more residents that want to hunt it?
From what I saw, they didn't adjust any elk quotas. The new unit restriction is only applicable to deer tags.
The established tag numbers per unit by looking at a 5 year average of how many hunters reported hunting that unit and then applied a quota that was 10%-15% of that number for non resident tags. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with game population.
“Nonresident A tags in some elk zones will be reduced by more than 50 percent.” Animal populations control where hunters go. More deer and elk equals more hunters.
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 20, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
Non residents may be bitter about it right now, but this is a good thing going forward. Hopefully it will put less pressure on the deer in some units and will lower hunter density. I haven't dealt with other hunters since moving to a remote area for deer with less hunters overall and have had a way better experience.
That being said, I'm glad I bought the lifetime resident license before my job moved me to another state. I'd have a difficult time picking between the 4 units I have in mind for mule deer if I was a non resident trying to get my tag locked in for December 1.
My understanding is that you still have to buy a non resident tag, so you would still be screwed. I could be wrong tho, I'll look that up.
Purchasing a lifetime license guarantees you resident draw odds and also tags come out of the resident quota. With that though, if you move out of Idaho, you have to pay non resident tag and fee prices. I'm only deer hunting in Idaho in 2021 unless I move back or draw an antelope tag so it won't hurt the bank account too bad.
Hoping I'll be able to get back to Idaho or even move to Montana this spring.
Post by: meatwhack on November 20, 2020, 05:06:46 PM
Post by: ThurstonCokid on November 20, 2020, 05:34:47 PM
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Post by: BULLBLASTER on November 20, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Anyone know how this works with applying for limited hunts? Do you buy your tag and pick your unit then apply? Or?If you want to be guaranteed a tag if you dont draw controlled you need to buy first. If you draw a controlled hunt they will let you exchange your tag for the controlled tag.
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Post by: actionshooter on November 20, 2020, 06:11:28 PM
Anyone know how this works with applying for limited hunts? Do you buy your tag and pick your unit then apply? Or?If you want to be guaranteed a tag if you dont draw controlled you need to buy first. If you draw a controlled hunt they will let you exchange your tag for the controlled tag.
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I was wondering the same...was that info on the website? I couldn't find it.
This is going to turn a bunch of peoples seasons upside down, by Dec 1st I won't have any idea what is going on for next year..... Idaho used to be the back up if the other draws didn't pan out.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 20, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
Well maybe if they do this for a year they'll finally realize the overcrowding is more new idaho residents than it is non residents.
No worries there most the folks moving to Idaho don't hunt, are anti hunt or just hate to hunt................ :bash: Idaho is in for big changes down the road.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on November 20, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Thats how idaho has always been. You can trade your general tag for a controlled hunt if you draw. You dont need to have a general tag to apply tho.Anyone know how this works with applying for limited hunts? Do you buy your tag and pick your unit then apply? Or?If you want to be guaranteed a tag if you dont draw controlled you need to buy first. If you draw a controlled hunt they will let you exchange your tag for the controlled tag.
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I was wondering the same...was that info on the website? I couldn't find it.
This is going to turn a bunch of peoples seasons upside down, by Dec 1st I won't have any idea what is going on for next year..... Idaho used to be the back up if the other draws didn't pan out.
Post by: Cougeyes on November 20, 2020, 06:39:05 PM
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Post by: meatwhack on November 20, 2020, 06:41:40 PM
Post by: WoolyRunner on November 20, 2020, 06:46:08 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 20, 2020, 06:47:54 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 20, 2020, 06:53:59 PM
So do you guys think everything will sell out dec 1 anyways? Or will these changes give you time to think about it? I liked it much better when Idaho was a great back up, miss those days.I don't think it will all sell out immediately, but some f the areas will go fast, Idaho was always a back up but we always ended up there.
This is going to suck, but I can't disagree something had to be done with the crowding...
Post by: jjhunter on November 20, 2020, 06:56:37 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 20, 2020, 06:59:02 PM
The problem with crowding is the resident population explosion!so since the quotas are the same for non Rez, will there be any difference in the amount of pressure since residence don’t have quotas ?
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 07:03:51 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on November 20, 2020, 07:12:23 PM
But don’t worry if your an Idaho resident because at the new price of $651/elk tag they only need to sell 8,190 tags to make as much money as they made off of non resident elk as they did last year.
Post by: jjhunter on November 20, 2020, 07:16:07 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on November 20, 2020, 07:20:38 PM
Wonder how the outfitter allocation comes into play?
I was thinking the same thing. They haven’t released any of those numbers so are they on top of the current quotas?
Post by: Bone collector 13 on November 20, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
Did anyone notice that there is only 9806 tags available for elk if you add them up? Therefore the quota of 12,800 is actually a joke because there isn’t enough tags available to reach that number.Where did you find the price? Was looking but can’t find it
But don’t worry if your an Idaho resident because at the new price of $651/elk tag they only need to sell 8,190 tags to make as much money as they made off of non resident elk as they did last year.
Post by: CarbonHunter on November 20, 2020, 07:27:01 PM
Did anyone notice that there is only 9806 tags available for elk if you add them up? Therefore the quota of 12,800 is actually a joke because there isn’t enough tags available to reach that number.Where did you find the price? Was looking but can’t find it
But don’t worry if your an Idaho resident because at the new price of $651/elk tag they only need to sell 8,190 tags to make as much money as they made off of non resident elk as they did last year.
They came out in an earlier email in October. They did about a 20% across the board increase when you average the cost increase
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on November 20, 2020, 07:31:14 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 07:36:39 PM
Non residents may be bitter about it right now, but this is a good thing going forward. Hopefully it will put less pressure on the deer in some units and will lower hunter density. I haven't dealt with other hunters since moving to a remote area for deer with less hunters overall and have had a way better experience.
That being said, I'm glad I bought the lifetime resident license before my job moved me to another state. I'd have a difficult time picking between the 4 units I have in mind for mule deer if I was a non resident trying to get my tag locked in for December 1.
My understanding is that you still have to buy a non resident tag, so you would still be screwed. I could be wrong tho, I'll look that up.
Purchasing a lifetime license guarantees you resident draw odds and also tags come out of the resident quota. With that though, if you move out of Idaho, you have to pay non resident tag and fee prices. I'm only deer hunting in Idaho in 2021 unless I move back or draw an antelope tag so it won't hurt the bank account too bad.
Hoping I'll be able to get back to Idaho or even move to Montana this spring.
OK, That's what I thought. But I didn't know that even if you pay non res prices that the tag came out of resident pool.
Post by: CarbonHunter on November 20, 2020, 07:39:25 PM
Post by: RB on November 20, 2020, 07:44:04 PM
If you add up the deer tags there is just enough available tags in the unit to add up to the 14k. The worse part is that the units with the most tags have the lowest success rates...
:yeah:
That is what I was wondering with my previous question, a unit with only 30-40 out of state tags is better than one with 200 plus? Sorry if this is too public, just trying to understand how it is going to work.
Post by: idaho guy on November 20, 2020, 07:47:56 PM
Just curious, the units with low tag numbers is that because there are low Elk numbers, or more residents that want to hunt it?
From what I saw, they didn't adjust any elk quotas. The new unit restriction is only applicable to deer tags.
The established tag numbers per unit by looking at a 5 year average of how many hunters reported hunting that unit and then applied a quota that was 10%-15% of that number for non resident tags. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with game population.
:yeah: That’s how I understood it also it is a percentage of the 5 year average. 39 has 1156 tags tells you a lot about that unit that most people already knew.
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2020, 07:50:08 PM
Think I need a new area 😅
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Post by: Cougeyes on November 20, 2020, 07:56:02 PM
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Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 07:59:14 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 08:03:03 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
That's the way it's been. But it could be interesting if more non res hunters buy whitetail tags with the original 14,000 tags. All the capped units might be maxed out before they get to the 1500 extra whitetail tags.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on November 20, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
No i think you right. I didnt read far enough into it before. I was thinking the regular deer was 12500 and whitetail 1500. To make 1400 but i was wrong. Doesnt happen often. :chuckle:Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 08:14:03 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
That's the way it's been. But it could be interesting if more non res hunters buy whitetail tags with the original 14,000 tags. All the capped units might be maxed out before they get to the 1500 extra whitetail tags.
Is says reserved 1500 whitetail tags. Seperate of the 14000
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 08:36:26 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
That's the way it's been. But it could be interesting if more non res hunters buy whitetail tags with the original 14,000 tags. All the capped units might be maxed out before they get to the 1500 extra whitetail tags.
Is says reserved 1500 whitetail tags. Seperate of the 14000
Yes but now with each unit capped, the caps could be filled before they get to that 1500 tags, if enough people bought a whitetail tag instead of mule deer tags.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 08:36:50 PM
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 09:06:02 PM
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 09:07:58 PM
Cant you just buy a whitetail only tag? Thats what my 2 buddies at work do.not anymore. All the tags are just unit specific and whatever is open for that unit.
It says after they sell the 14000 1500 whitetail tags are available seperate of the 14000 or am I reading that wrong?
That's the way it's been. But it could be interesting if more non res hunters buy whitetail tags with the original 14,000 tags. All the capped units might be maxed out before they get to the 1500 extra whitetail tags.
Is says reserved 1500 whitetail tags. Seperate of the 14000
Yes but now with each unit capped, the caps could be filled before they get to that 1500 tags, if enough people bought a whitetail tag instead of mule deer tags.
Nope, set aside for after the 14000. It says to be sold after the 14000 if they hit 14000
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 20, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Nope, set aside for after the 14000. It says to be sold after the 14000 if they hit 14000
That 14,000 can either be any deer or just whitetail, your choice. The 1500 is for additional whitetail tags. Different seasons for each and different quotas as far the unit quotas go. If by chance more people purchased whitetail tags than normal, instead of "any deer" tags for the first 14,000 there may not be enough quota spots left for the "extra" 1500 whitetail tags.
For example..... I just totaled up the quota for non res whitetail tags. And if I didn't screw up, next year the total non res whitetail quota if you add up all the units is 3,836. there are 14,000 possible tags that can either be the reg tags or whitetail tags depending on your choice. If 3,836 of those tags were whitetail tags, there would be no quota left for the "extra" 1,500 whitetail tags. They can sell those 1,500 "extra" tags, but where are you going to hunt with them if the quota is already filled for each unit? The only way I can see them being used is if they are sold to resident hunters as second tags.
The other problem I see with this plan is...... The real overcrowding issue is the number of new resident hunters over the years, as the non res numbers have been capped for a very long time. It doesn't really matter if 10%-15% of the hunters (the non res hunters) can only hunt one unit if all those resident hunters are still free to move around to any unit they want. Especially if the resident hunters end up purchasing second tags because non res hunters can't use them. So I don't see any real reduction in crowding except for a few localized areas.
One other issue is, they probably won't sell as many muzzleloader licenses, because there are only a few units with muzzleloader seasons for deer. Say I got a whitetail tag for unit 14. If I don't fill my tag by Nov. 20, the end of the season, I can't change to say unit 16 for muzzleloader season, so I won't be buying the muzzleloader endorsement.
Post by: highside74 on November 20, 2020, 11:25:59 PM
*Reserved White-tailed Deer tags become available after the main quota of 14,000 has sold out.
I maybe misunderstanding something :dunno:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 21, 2020, 05:55:19 AM
This is copied directly from their webpage
*Reserved White-tailed Deer tags become available after the main quota of 14,000 has sold out.
I maybe misunderstanding something :dunno:
That's only because they didn't think this through. In fact I just saw something funny here...... I added up all the regular deer tag quotas per unit and all the whitetail units per quota and I come up with this....... Regular deer tag quota is 13,431, and whitetail deer tag quota adds up to 3,836. See the problem? 13,431 plus 3,836 equals 17,267. That is higher than the number of tags available, (14,000 plus 1500 reserved whitetail tags = 15,500) So if they filled all the quota, that would actually increase the number of non res deer hunters. I'm guessing they won't. and some of the unit quotas for non res won't be filled. But it would be funny of the result of this new plan was it increased non res participation.
Maybe I added the quotas up wrong, but I don't think I did.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 21, 2020, 06:32:20 AM
I hope they have a better system in place for updating available tag numbers though.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 21, 2020, 06:34:25 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 21, 2020, 06:55:00 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 21, 2020, 07:17:28 AM
The overall quota will be hit before all the individual quotas are filled. Otherwise it would be an overall reduction in tags and they didnt want that. Some areas will see a lot more non res hunters than before. Get ready locals!
I wonder what a 50 percent reduction in non res pass through traffic will do to small outskirt towns like Pierce. Im sure they will be fine but its going to have some financial impact. :dunno:
Post by: ThurstonCokid on November 21, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
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Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 21, 2020, 10:36:47 AM
Post by: meatwhack on November 21, 2020, 12:25:44 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2020, 12:27:23 PM
This $ increase is gonna help me do that
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Post by: ThurstonCokid on November 21, 2020, 12:29:38 PM
I'll be getting mine, until I can convince the guys I hunt with to try other western states lolAs much as i love it I’m going to look elsewhere too. Makes the steaks a little higher to be a resident
This $ increase is gonna help me do that
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Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 21, 2020, 08:04:38 PM
And I don't think whitetail only tags become available til general sells out.
That is not true. I buy my whitetail tag every year, well before the 14,000 tags are sold out.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2020, 05:33:39 AM
Post by: Mossy on November 24, 2020, 11:05:33 PM
I’m gonna email em and suggest they have a draw for like 1,000 tags where NRs can hunt all the units, all the seasons as in the past.
:lol4:
Post by: dreamingbig on November 28, 2020, 10:05:46 PM
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Post by: LabChamp on December 01, 2020, 08:57:19 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 01, 2020, 09:04:03 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on December 01, 2020, 09:07:59 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 01, 2020, 09:09:54 AM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 01, 2020, 09:15:50 AM
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on December 01, 2020, 09:18:42 AM
Post by: Brushbuster on December 01, 2020, 09:21:21 AM
Post by: bornhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:24:39 AM
Post by: westside Elkhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:30:18 AM
Anybody able to get any tags yet?
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Post by: kselkhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
Am curious how many guys get turned off by having to wait in line with a random number on December 1st morning to hope to get the tag in the available quota for the unit they want....vs. skip Idaho and go to another state instead in 2022.
Will be interesting to watch....
Post by: vandeman17 on December 01, 2020, 09:33:24 AM
Idaho definitely made it interesting for nonres this year didn't they?
Am curious how many guys get turned off by having to wait in line with a random number on December 1st morning to hope to get the tag in the available quota for the unit they want....vs. skip Idaho and go to another state instead in 2022.
Will be interesting to watch....
You can put me down on the list that is skipping Idaho.
Post by: JoeE on December 01, 2020, 09:42:34 AM
Post by: westside Elkhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:42:53 AM
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Post by: Dhoey07 on December 01, 2020, 09:44:05 AM
Post by: dmoua on December 01, 2020, 09:44:33 AM
Good thing I had the day off. At his rate other states might be a better option for 2022 since I don't see myself requesting a day off just to wait in line next year.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 09:46:47 AM
I got a sawtooth elk tag and regular deer. I didn’t see where you pick what specific unit you wanted for deer though, I thought Idaho was making you pick this year?its a software glitch. You better call. Its happening to quite a few folks
Post by: RookieBow1967 on December 01, 2020, 09:47:06 AM
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Post by: kentrek on December 01, 2020, 09:48:19 AM
this was most likely the last straw
Post by: JoeE on December 01, 2020, 09:49:19 AM
I got a sawtooth elk tag and regular deer. I didn’t see where you pick what specific unit you wanted for deer though, I thought Idaho was making you pick this year?its a software glitch. You better call. Its happening to quite a few folks
F
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Post by: Machias on December 01, 2020, 09:53:36 AM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 01, 2020, 09:54:26 AM
Post by: jowings22 on December 01, 2020, 09:55:54 AM
Post by: bornhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:56:05 AM
Idaho definitely made it interesting for nonres this year didn't they?
Am curious how many guys get turned off by having to wait in line with a random number on December 1st morning to hope to get the tag in the available quota for the unit they want....vs. skip Idaho and go to another state instead in 2022.
Will be interesting to watch....
Thats me! :yeah:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 09:57:27 AM
The line game is what is killing me more than anything. Could be my bad, but I assumed it would be a shotgun start at 10:00. Surprise! Just kidding back of the line..... :bash: :bash:they told us to be early in several emails.
Post by: Wunderlich33 on December 01, 2020, 09:59:10 AM
Anyone else lag out before purchasing their tag? It took me 5 minutes to get to the checkout screen then I lost my tag :/
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Sam thing is happening to my hunting partners!!! What a screwed system!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Antlershed on December 01, 2020, 10:00:22 AM
Post by: RookieBow1967 on December 01, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
Glad its not just me!Anyone else lag out before purchasing their tag? It took me 5 minutes to get to the checkout screen then I lost my tag :/
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Sam thing is happening to my hunting partners!!! What a screwed system!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:
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Post by: ballpark on December 01, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 01, 2020, 10:04:37 AM
Glad its not just me!Anyone else lag out before purchasing their tag? It took me 5 minutes to get to the checkout screen then I lost my tag :/
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Sam thing is happening to my hunting partners!!! What a screwed system!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:
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This must be why we now have a message saying not to refresh your browser...
Post by: Machias on December 01, 2020, 10:06:32 AM
Post by: RookieBow1967 on December 01, 2020, 10:08:50 AM
I had one friend get his Idaho Panhandle B tag. Another friend who was just behind him in line had two Panhandle B tags left, added it to his cart and it just spun and then he lost the tag. He said it now shows all elk tags sold out statewide. Both of these were Non-resident DAVs.I kept getting stuck on the extra pop ups with stuff they wanted you to buy and verifying my address which I did three times today and once yesterday.
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Post by: Wunderlich33 on December 01, 2020, 10:09:04 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on December 01, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
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Post by: RookieBow1967 on December 01, 2020, 10:20:06 AM
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Post by: dmoua on December 01, 2020, 10:20:48 AM
Yeah being early didn’t help anything. Also not every firewall played nice with the google analytics they are using. Still waiting... hopeful but not as much as yesterday!
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I was early. Did me no good either.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 01, 2020, 10:24:08 AM
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on December 01, 2020, 10:24:28 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 01, 2020, 10:24:57 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 01, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
Post by: REHJWA on December 01, 2020, 10:31:00 AM
Post by: Antlershed on December 01, 2020, 10:36:10 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on December 01, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Did you guys who didn't get your tags have to purchase your license first or was it letting you buy it all at the same time?
Bought all at the same time
Post by: elkboy on December 01, 2020, 10:39:49 AM
I doubt I will get to hunt Idaho this year...
Post by: Yakirack on December 01, 2020, 10:41:49 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on December 01, 2020, 10:53:51 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 01, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
This is seriously a bummer...
We talked about quotas in business school. The queues caused by limited quotas are just another way that supply and demand meet. You are not paying with your pocket book, but you pay with your time. The actual cost of the tag is the dollar amount + the time you spend trying to get in before quotas run out. Yet another reason that prices would be the best way to regulate total sales. Supply and demand cannot be beat!
Post by: archerykraze on December 01, 2020, 10:59:09 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 01, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Post by: JoeE on December 01, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Post by: duckman18 on December 01, 2020, 11:11:35 AM
Post by: Stein on December 01, 2020, 11:14:00 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Post by: wsmnut on December 01, 2020, 11:18:30 AM
Decided to prod things and touch the “Make a Purchase “ button, only to find out I’d been logged off. Beyond pissed off. Logged back in at number 7,000 in line. Hours more to go.
Post by: dmoua on December 01, 2020, 11:29:45 AM
Post by: BIGDOG253 on December 01, 2020, 11:32:16 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 01, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
I was number 6967 in line.
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 11:39:40 AM
I was 7341 and just got in a few minutes ago. Its slow but there's still like 95% of units still available. Thousands of tags left.
Screwed up for what I can tell. NonResi disabled elk says add to cart but all units are grayed out/sold out..Not sure why it’s an option to add to cart?
Deer says sold out so no option. What am I missing?
Post by: bornhunter on December 01, 2020, 11:49:15 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 01, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on December 01, 2020, 11:56:07 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 11:56:30 AM
So will NR be able to apply for controlled deer and elk?yes. You'll just have to return your general tag for your CH tag if you draw.
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 11:59:33 AM
So will NR be able to apply for controlled deer and elk?yes. You'll just have to return your general tag for your CH tag if you draw.
But if you didn’t get a tag today then you’re SOL right?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 12:02:39 PM
no you can definitely still apply for controlled hunts. You'd still need to purchase your license to apply thoughSo will NR be able to apply for controlled deer and elk?yes. You'll just have to return your general tag for your CH tag if you draw.
But if you didn’t get a tag today then you’re SOL right?
Post by: elkboy on December 01, 2020, 12:03:24 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 01, 2020, 12:04:23 PM
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Post by: Alan K on December 01, 2020, 12:05:20 PM
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 12:09:02 PM
I take it whitetail only tags are gone? Not an option under tags?
Lots left for regular non resident
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 12:13:12 PM
I was 7341 and just got in a few minutes ago. Its slow but there's still like 95% of units still available. Thousands of tags left.
Screwed up for what I can tell. NonResi disabled elk says add to cart but all units are grayed out/sold out..Not sure why it’s an option to add to cart?
Deer says sold out so no option. What am I missing?
I called the fish and game department for my buddy while he was online trying to purchase his tags. It wasn't giving him access to any non-resident disabled veteran. She said that there was only so many of those tags available and he would have to purchase a standard non-resident tag but because he did Auto renewal for his deer lic it wouldn't even give him the option of purchasing a NR lic. She also said the tag he wanted was already sold period so he would have to pic a different tag. Other friends had already got their tag so he bagged it. Very frustrating.
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 01, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
Post by: Alan K on December 01, 2020, 12:18:53 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 01, 2020, 12:20:51 PM
Mostly sold out?
Very impressed they have a line and status vs just dead space for hours.
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 12:21:49 PM
I had no problem purchasing my DAV license, archery and muzzleloader permit. DAV deer tags were marked red/sold out so you couldn’t click on them. But then and now the DAV elk tags give the option to add to cart but once you do, all zones are grayed out/sold out. Curious why the add to cart in that category is even an option if all sold out.I was 7341 and just got in a few minutes ago. Its slow but there's still like 95% of units still available. Thousands of tags left.
Screwed up for what I can tell. NonResi disabled elk says add to cart but all units are grayed out/sold out..Not sure why it’s an option to add to cart?
Deer says sold out so no option. What am I missing?
I called the fish and game department for my buddy while he was online trying to purchase his tags. It wasn't giving him access to any non-resident disabled veteran. She said that there was only so many of those tags available and he would have to purchase a standard non-resident tag but because he did Auto renewal for his deer lic it wouldn't even give him the option of purchasing a NR lic. She also said the tag he wanted was already sold period so he would have to pic a different tag. Other friends had already got their tag so he bagged it. Very frustrating.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201201/03cbf8c8d7b07bfecb8a0f7f0f132c32.jpg)
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Post by: ballpark on December 01, 2020, 12:31:47 PM
same here. :bash:
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 12:35:21 PM
DAV Elk tags
same here. :bash:
I feel ya and thanks for your service
Post by: JoeE on December 01, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Post by: Alan K on December 01, 2020, 12:44:23 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 01, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on December 01, 2020, 12:53:13 PM
At 12:49pm, I got into the system less than one minute wait. There are non-resident elk tags available to add to my cart. But zero deer tags of any kind showing up on the screen.
Just FYI for others for future years.....nonresident deer tags sold out before 1pm on December 1st.
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 12:57:42 PM
I waited, primarily as I was curious to see what the tag situation looked like after the big rush to buy (not planning to hunt ID deer/elk this year).
At 12:49pm, I got into the system less than one minute wait. There are non-resident elk tags available to add to my cart. But zero deer tags of any kind showing up on the screen.
Just FYI for others for future years.....nonresident deer tags sold out before 1pm on December 1st.
I went back in 15 minutes ago to check for another member and got in under 30 seconds.
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 01, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
Post by: elkboy on December 01, 2020, 01:04:39 PM
(The lady glanced over my shoulder just as I was checking out... she had some non-negotiable demands when she saw the final price... :chuckle:)
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on December 01, 2020, 01:19:05 PM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/tag/quotas/nonresident/deer
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on December 01, 2020, 01:20:58 PM
Post by: Johnny Doe on December 01, 2020, 01:23:53 PM
The wait is now over. Its super quick.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on December 01, 2020, 01:28:13 PM
The wait is now over. Its super quick.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yaaaaaaa, quick like molasses poured through a long cold funnel...…….
Post by: CoryTDF on December 01, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
Post by: packmule on December 01, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 01, 2020, 02:15:14 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on December 01, 2020, 02:18:42 PM
What is "DAV"?
Disabled American Veteran
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on December 01, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Waited all morning to get put into the line. Got number 5900 and smoothing. Waited for over an hour to be next in line. Site crashed and had to go back in. DAV tags still showed available, once the site got done loading it showed them as sold out. I put the other stuff in my cart and the site would not allow my card to process and it kicked the tags back out. So, lost out on my DAV ELK tag and had to pay normal non-res price for a tag. Pretty :bash: :bash: :bash:
Ya, me too. I logged in on one of my screens around 0830, thought I was the cat's arse getting in/logging on so early. Kicked off the site right before 0900. Logged back in a bit after 0900 and received the prize of the low number of 10,366..... didn't get the "you're up" till around 1130ish. Deer tags, sold out, elk tags, sold out. Went ahead and paid regular price for an elk tag. Heck, I don't mind all that much. Onward to the spud state for yet another elk hunt! Me thinks (God willing and the creeks don't rise), I'll forgo the Idaho license drama next year and use my pref points in the cowboy state.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 02:25:13 PM
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 02:26:03 PM
Are guys showing regular deer tags sold out? Just walked a friend through it and there was lots left :dunno:
No just all DAV tags
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
ah gotcha. I know earlier it wasn't showing for guys but then magically popped back up as an optionAre guys showing regular deer tags sold out? Just walked a friend through it and there was lots left :dunno:
No just all DAV tags
Post by: 2MANY on December 01, 2020, 02:44:06 PM
Post by: ballpark on December 01, 2020, 03:11:29 PM
Waited all morning to get put into the line. Got number 5900 and smoothing. Waited for over an hour to be next in line. Site crashed and had to go back in. DAV tags still showed available, once the site got done loading it showed them as sold out. I put the other stuff in my cart and the site would not allow my card to process and it kicked the tags back out. So, lost out on my DAV ELK tag and had to pay normal non-res price for a tag. Pretty :bash: :bash: :bash:
Same here Cory :bash:
Post by: CoryTDF on December 01, 2020, 03:11:33 PM
1) This system sucks. Servers are too slow and you time out before it can catch up and you lose everything. Not to mention the multiple crashes.
2) For DAV tags there should be a completely separate process. It was such an amazing opportunity that Idaho was giving to veterans and they cut it really deep. It is a real kick in the knockers bud.
Sadly it looks like all the tags are going to sell out and the Idaho will have made good on their gamble that people would pay these super new high fees. I don't expect anything to change for the better for next year.
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 01, 2020, 03:33:08 PM
Post by: 2MANY on December 01, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
Had to pay full price.
I have a feeling Idaho's phones will be ringing......
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
This year all of the DAV tags are in the same pool as the Junior mentored tags which I couldn't buy either.
Had to pay full price.
I have a feeling Idaho's phones will be ringing......
:chuckle:
Kind of funny....After I got in after 2.5 hours online I questioned the DAV elk tags, waited on hold for about 30 minutes and chose the option to have them call me instead of waiting on hold without losing my place in line. That was at 1121 with no call back as of yet.
Post by: trophyhunt on December 01, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 01, 2020, 04:30:52 PM
I am looking at a unit that is typically white tail but for a controlled hunt drawing, however said unit has few general deer tags. But then also has like over 200 WT tags. Would the general tag still only be good for whitetail?
Maybe its good for whitetail during any weapon and mule deer for archery?
Newer to ID hunting and regs btw.
Post by: meatwhack on December 01, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 01, 2020, 05:42:33 PM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on December 01, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 01, 2020, 05:54:02 PM
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 06:02:13 PM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on December 01, 2020, 06:07:41 PM
Post by: adamR on December 01, 2020, 06:11:53 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on December 01, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
Post by: adamR on December 01, 2020, 06:18:28 PM
"This change affects only nonresident DAV tags, so availability of resident DAV tags remains unchanged. If reduced-price nonresident DAV tags sell out, nonresident disabled American veteran hunters can still buy an adult nonresident tag at full price. They may also apply for controlled hunts, and if they draw, they can purchase the tag at the reduced price. "
If I'm reading that right, we can still apply for controlled hunts and only pay the DAV rate if we end up getting drawn. At least there is still some hope! :dunno:
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 01, 2020, 06:23:58 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 06:37:42 PM
Post by: Mossy on December 01, 2020, 07:11:51 PM
I bought my license and whitetail tag but how do I get my youth a lic and tag? Can't figure it out.
My guess is the new website/license company bases your options from your prior profile.
Post by: redi on December 01, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 01, 2020, 07:29:43 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 07:31:10 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 07:57:56 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 08:01:53 PM
Post by: cem3434 on December 01, 2020, 08:05:41 PM
Did deer tags sell out too or just elk?
My group just bought our deer tags like 5 minutes ago and there were almost 2K elk tags left and several thousand deer tags available. The usual elk tags are sold out and so are some of the more sought after deer units, but there are still plenty of tags available for guys that are looking for a decent opportunity. :twocents:
Post by: 2MANY on December 01, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2020, 08:28:00 PM
I could not buy my 14 year old the junior mentor tags and license like I did last year. Not sure but it wouldn't let me and due to the timer I just said screw it and paid full price. Be interested in hearing what they have to say about it tomorrow.
I had to create him an account and it automatically recognized that he was a jr hunter and gave seperate jr options. I had to make 2 transactions 1 for me and 1 for him.
Post by: Brushbuster on December 01, 2020, 08:39:26 PM
Still sounds a little confusing but the tag is on my ID profile & charges on my CC.
Post by: actionshooter on December 01, 2020, 08:43:05 PM
Post by: bracer40 on December 01, 2020, 08:55:26 PM
I searched their website as well as the most recent big game regs AND the hunter safety site and found nothing outside of their jr. mentoring program.
My 25 yr old son was with me in Idaho for his first archery elk hunt as my eyes and ears ( his back helped too over our 10.5 mile packout😜) and is now solidly hooked...
I’ve told him in no uncertain terms he needs to get on the ball and get his hunters safety cert ASAP or he might be tagging along like last year...
Any of you have any knowledge you’d like to share that I couldn’t find on my own....would be much appreciated!
Good luck on getting your tags!
Post by: redi on December 01, 2020, 08:58:11 PM
Post by: bornhunter on December 01, 2020, 09:54:51 PM
So will NR be able to apply for controlled deer and elk?yes. You'll just have to return your general tag for your CH tag if you draw.
:tup:
Post by: kentrek on December 01, 2020, 11:20:42 PM
I wonder if Idaho was working the panic buying angle or if it just worked out for them...
I think Idaho knew exactly what they were doing...20,000 pissed off customers that will be demanding a fair chance at a tag....Idaho will gladly turn into a draw state and begin the downward slope of points and focusing on revenue generation instead of OTC hunting...and now they will even have nonresidential support after this... win win for Idaho...bag of turds for the average Joe
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on December 01, 2020, 11:28:47 PM
I’m planning to call IDF&G tomorrow but I’m curious if anybody here received an email (their regular emails every mth or so) that spoke of a mentoring program other than the jr. program?They have the hunting passport which is good for 1 year and a once per lifetime deal but I believe it may be a resident only program as the passport is only like $2 or something like that
I searched their website as well as the most recent big game regs AND the hunter safety site and found nothing outside of their jr. mentoring program.
My 25 yr old son was with me in Idaho for his first archery elk hunt as my eyes and ears ( his back helped too over our 10.5 mile packout😜) and is now solidly hooked...
I’ve told him in no uncertain terms he needs to get on the ball and get his hunters safety cert ASAP or he might be tagging along like last year...
Any of you have any knowledge you’d like to share that I couldn’t find on my own....would be much appreciated!
Good luck on getting your tags!
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Post by: andrew_in_idaho on December 01, 2020, 11:32:31 PM
I talked to a few buddies from Idaho today, they all said, "wow that was crazy!!! the site is completely different this year!" That tells me most of Idaho was trying to log in as well just to check out the "chaos" this morning which helped further crash the site!!! So aside from all of the non-residents trying to purchase tags, you had all these looky-loo residents bombarding the site just to see whats going on.Today is also the 1st day residents are allowed to buy licenses for the 2021 seasons including waterfowl, wolf, mountain lion, or coyote hunting right away in January and fishing too. Our licenses expire December 31 so maybe your buddies were just trying to be prepared. I went on to buy my sportsman’s package and ended up in a 30 minute queue
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Post by: zwickeyman on December 02, 2020, 05:49:46 AM
Good job and good luck to all who got their tags in time
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 06:51:33 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 02, 2020, 09:02:13 AM
The line was at 22,000 people who have waited for some period of time in the middle of the day yesterday.
Today they have 6,606 tags remaining of 12,815 Quota Available for Zone Elk A & B Tag. Interestingly, when I add up the quota I get 11,724 Quota Available. I wonder if the difference is the outfitter tags? That would seem about right. This doesnt seem out of sync with previous years, but their little quota game sure scared the socks off of people.
For deer tags, they have 7,500 left this morning on the 14,000 quota. Sure some units are sold out, but there are plenty that are not.
I really think Idaho should've focused on the specific areas that had problems with quotas (like they have elsewhere) and let the rest self-regulate. Heck, even WA doesn't make you pick a specific unit for deer or elk!
I sincerely hope they do not sell out.
Post by: KFhunter on December 02, 2020, 09:07:02 AM
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Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 02, 2020, 09:13:04 AM
I'm curious if Idaho will sell out or not. Might be people who say if I can't get the units I want, then I won't hunt there this year. And with the higher prices are they willing to try areas they don't want? Guess we'll see.
I got to the checkout and saw $1300 times 2 and decided forget it I will do something different this year !
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 02, 2020, 09:13:58 AM
Post by: KFhunter on December 02, 2020, 09:17:55 AM
It kept me out of the game. That’s after buying 5 Idaho tags last year. I wanted to do something but I didn’t have a for sure plan in place yet. I almost panic-bought a couple different times but ultimately said screw it. I think at last years prices I would have pulled the trigger on a “just in case” tagYa, I know others as well, same thoughts.
So I guess its working?
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Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Due to the price increases they have already made the same amount of money selling less tags.
The price you can get is the price someone is willing to pay.
Soon only the rich will hunt just like the other over populated country's.
Post by: KFhunter on December 02, 2020, 09:23:41 AM
Doesn't matter to Idaho.I ain't rich, I just sacrifice.
Due to the price increases they have already made the same amount of money selling less tags.
The price you can get is the price someone is willing to pay.
Soon only the rich will hunt just like the other over populated country's.
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Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 09:24:38 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on December 02, 2020, 09:26:35 AM
Doesn't matter to Idaho.
Due to the price increases they have already made the same amount of money selling less tags.
The price you can get is the price someone is willing to pay.
Soon only the rich will hunt just like the other over populated country's.
:yeah: I was lined up to buy. I was logged in and in the queue before go time. By the time it was my chance, all deer and elk tags in my area were gone. I know there are lots of tags available in other places, but I really have no interest in spending that kind of money to go explore when I know where the animals are in my area. Actually left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. The part that made the most upset is that I won't get to go elk hunting in familiar ground with my Dad. He's only got so many opening days left, and now we're left trying to figure out WTF to do, and where to go.
That's just me venting, everyone had the same opportunity, we just logged on 30 seconds to late I guess.
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Doesn't matter to Idaho.I ain't rich, I just sacrifice.
Due to the price increases they have already made the same amount of money selling less tags.
The price you can get is the price someone is willing to pay.
Soon only the rich will hunt just like the other over populated country's.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
This was not directed at you.
Just a statement that I believe will prove to be true over the years.
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 09:30:48 AM
Doesn't matter to Idaho.
Due to the price increases they have already made the same amount of money selling less tags.
The price you can get is the price someone is willing to pay.
Soon only the rich will hunt just like the other over populated country's.
:yeah: I was lined up to buy. I was logged in and in the queue before go time. By the time it was my chance, all deer and elk tags in my area were gone. I know there are lots of tags available in other places, but I really have no interest in spending that kind of money to go explore when I know where the animals are in my area. Actually left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. The part that made the most upset is that I won't get to go elk hunting in familiar ground with my Dad. He's only got so many opening days left, and now we're left trying to figure out WTF to do, and where to go.
That's just me venting, everyone had the same opportunity, we just logged on 30 seconds to late I guess.
This really bums me out.
I'm sincerely sorry to those that didn't get tags.
It's BS.
I hope the state doesn't ask the feds for a single dollar to manage their animals but we know BLM and the USFS will still continue to do so.
They aren't JUST the state of Idaho's animals IMHO.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 02, 2020, 10:04:48 AM
So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
I have no skin in the game but for me, the biggest downside was having to pick a single unit. I have hunted a few areas in Idaho over the years but not sure which one I would go back to if I was to hunt. I feel for the guys that have a unit they have hunted for years that got sold out before they could buy or also for the guy that has never hunted Idaho and just needs to choose a random unit. The price, for me at least, doesn't really matter since I pay a stupid amount on tags in other states anyway. :twocents:
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 10:05:30 AM
So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
It's not saving $90, it's spending nearly $1200 for a license, deer and elk tag, per person. And it's all the other related expenses for many people to travel out to Idaho as well. There's other units available, but that's a big investment without knowing the area if they haven't been to those units, if they even want to hunt those units. Maybe people will pay the extra money and/or hunt units they don't want. Or maybe it'll become a trip every other year, or just not at all anymore. This year especially with millions still out of work.
"When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say 'man I'm glad I hunted'" more and spent that $1200 on an idaho license, deer and elk tag for a unit I didn't even know and jeopardized my families finances since I wasn't even working at the time. Food for thought.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 02, 2020, 10:15:20 AM
So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
I'm past the upset part :chuckle: A fifth of pendleton and 4 am frozen run to clear the the hangover off before work got it out of my sytem :chuckle:
I am not upset at the increase in price. I get it, its business and raising the price to market is smart business. They should have gone up more IMO. Two things upset me, they created urgency for no other reason than to ensure there risk of raising cost was not a bust. Capping all the zones and units created a sense of urgency causing a flood of buyers that IMO would have been prevented had they rolled out a simple cost increase. Or they could have rolled out a draw for very popular units, or rolled out in stages, to limit impacts for folks. Lots of options.
The bigger issue is I see it as a first step. I have always held IDFG as an "ideal" standard for game departments. Given their funding mechanisms they will never be able to go to a simple draw like many western states IMO. Very few will enter a draw for deer and elk at 1300 dollar price tag. This move of capping zones in this way without a draw essentially removed their reason to manage game, and began managing hunters. Welcome the new WDFW.
Post by: buglebrush on December 02, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Equating WDFW and IDFG is ridiculous. Let's face the fact that Idaho is primarily concerned with its own resident hunters, as it should be. Yet, it's still offering more opportunity than almost any other western state for non-residents. The rage is created by losing the unparalleled opportunity Idaho has been giving non-residents.So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
I'm past the upset part :chuckle: A fifth of pendleton and 4 am frozen run to clear the the hangover off before work got it out of my sytem :chuckle:
I am not upset at the increase in price. I get it, its business and raising the price to market is smart business. They should have gone up more IMO. Two things upset me, they created urgency for no other reason than to ensure there risk of raising cost was not a bust. Capping all the zones and units created a sense of urgency causing a flood of buyers that IMO would have been prevented had they rolled out a simple cost increase. Or they could have rolled out a draw for very popular units, or rolled out in stages, to limit impacts for folks. Lots of options.
The bigger issue is I see it as a first step. I have always held IDFG as an "ideal" standard for game departments. Given their funding mechanisms they will never be able to go to a simple draw like many western states IMO. Very few will enter a draw for deer and elk at 1300 dollar price tag. This move of capping zones in this way without a draw essentially removed their reason to manage game, and began managing hunters. Welcome the new WDFW.
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 02, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Unit choice sux
I've been hunting Idaho since 98 and the ability to go over at different times of the year and explore different area's was a huge bonus. I spend several weekends a year in idaho during hunting seasons which equates to spending money throughout the year. We didn't rush to buy kinda waiting to see how things shake out. Still have some options in area's we are familiar with so will see.
One aspect is I talked to a small store owner over there recently. I asked about the prospect of loosing business during hunting season. They estimated they might loose well over 1000 customers during Oct/ Nov because of reduced tag numbers. Guess time will tell.
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 10:34:40 AM
Been a rough couple years on 2 wheels for that bugger. LOL
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
Now it all makes sense. LOL
Just grab the rifle my friend.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
thats a bit of a stretch don't you think? If an out of state tag is gonna bankrupt the family then you're probably not planning that trip to begin with. And like I asked, name a state that isn't $1100+ for a deer and elk tag.So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
It's not saving $90, it's spending nearly $1200 for a license, deer and elk tag, per person. And it's all the other related expenses for many people to travel out to Idaho as well. There's other units available, but that's a big investment without knowing the area if they haven't been to those units, if they even want to hunt those units. Maybe people will pay the extra money and/or hunt units they don't want. Or maybe it'll become a trip every other year, or just not at all anymore. This year especially with millions still out of work.
"When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say 'man I'm glad I hunted'" more and spent that $1200 on an idaho license, deer and elk tag for a unit I didn't even know and jeopardized my families finances since I wasn't even working at the time. Food for thought.
A new unit is a new unit. Nobody thinks twice about it when heading to (insert any western state with quotas) but all of a sudden its the end of the world in Idaho? A person's favorite unit in idaho was once a new unit to them as well and somehow they figured it out.
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 10:48:17 AM
I just hope Karl isn't laying on his bed next year and can actually hunt like he likes.haha! I'm surviving. 5 deer in the last two weeks has left me with a pretty sore hand 8)
Been a rough couple years on 2 wheels for that bugger. LOL
So are you implying that when the buffalo reach the cliff they don't need to jump off?what I'm trying to convey is that there's still no better value in the west than idaho. Most states are as expensive or more expensive, are on draw systems, and have quotas. All this "im going somewhere else" talk doesn't add up when you compare apples to apples. When presented with an obstacle you have a few choices. First is sit back and complain and remain stagnant. Second is find a new path and keep moving forward.....
Post by: Houndhunter on December 02, 2020, 10:49:12 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 02, 2020, 10:56:51 AM
I sincerely hope that they do not sell out of either deer or elk tags and that residents get the chance they've been waiting for to buy a second. So many of the message boards indicate that those folks want to, but lets see what happens when the rubber meets the road.
It was not many years ago when they couldn't sell their elk tags for $299 each, to anyone. I bought a second one in 2015 in November.
Regardless, this is a lesson for everyone, Idaho included. This will not be the final version, this is a learning experience.
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 11:00:13 AM
Not everyone can hunt out of state to begin with, so who cares who isn't $1100. Many can't afford it, so they don't. For those who can it might be time to go to a different state since they all cost about the same anyway.
A new unit can simply be a new unit, but not for those who have hunted one area for years on end. For those who once upon a time hunted a new unit, they didn't have to with prices this high. And for those that can't simply get there in less than a days drive scouting prior to the season may not be an option. Big gamble. And again, new unit with the same money, why choose Idaho instead of any of the other states?
For one person it's a $315 increase. For a family of three, almost $1000 difference. Then add in the one unit restriction. And Covid related loss of wages. And having to pay right now or you won't get a unit you want, if you were able to get it at all. Will they even be able to get that time off, guaranteed, from work if they are working? It all makes a difference.
If you want to great. I'm just saying I think it will result in many people saying no thanks, or not this year.
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 11:08:12 AM
Reminds me of when they quit planting fish on the Cowlitz.
Every river went down with a sea of aluminum.
Post by: idaho guy on December 02, 2020, 11:14:16 AM
So sincere question to those upset. Why is what idaho is doing so grossly offensive but its fine in basically every other western state for basically the exact same money? And for those put off by the price, where you gonna go hunt for less money? There are still THOUSANDS of tags available in idaho that you can just hop online and buy. Theres deer and elk in every unit available just waiting to be hunted. When laying on your death bed will you look back on your life and say "man I'm glad I hunted less and saved that $90 on an idaho deer tag and license". Food for thought.
:yeah: hey! Quit inserting common sense into this conversation :chuckle:thats how I see it Idaho’s just now moving to prices similar to other western states and even with the unit choice still only good state you can hunt otc every year! Is a great draw tag in Arizona, Utah, etc. better? Yes but enjoy paying for that tag every year in the draw for 5-29 years until you finally get the privilege to buy a tag at 1200 bucks. I have no problem with out of state hunters because when I go to Montana I are one every year. :chuckle:This whining is bullsh#t Idaho is fairly priced and provides way more opportunities than other western states. Does anyone get to hunt the same draw unit in other western states every year ? No. I have a feeling they will change the unit choice thing and make it more user friendly. Idaho’s problem is NEW resident hunters and we will eventually have to go draw for everyone in more units then eventually for everything. Enjoy it while you can Idaho will become a draw state where you get a tag every 2-5 years with everyone moving here.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 11:14:58 AM
For the millions out of work, not being able to afford it isn't a stretch at all, it's a fact for many.
Not everyone can hunt out of state to begin with, so who cares who isn't $1100. Many can't afford it, so they don't. For those who can it might be time to go to a different state since they all cost about the same anyway.
A new unit can simply be a new unit, but not for those who have hunted one area for years on end. For those who once upon a time hunted a new unit, they didn't have to with prices this high. And for those that can't simply get there in less than a days drive scouting prior to the season may not be an option. Big gamble. And again, new unit with the same money, why choose Idaho instead of any of the other states?
For one person it's a $315 increase. For a family of three, almost $1000 difference. Then add in the one unit restriction. And Covid related loss of wages. And having to pay right now or you won't get a unit you want, if you were able to get it at all. Will they even be able to get that time off, guaranteed, from work if they are working? It all makes a difference.
If you want to great. I'm just saying I think it will result in many people saying no thanks, or not this year.
I get that but thats not idaho's fault. Those problems will exist regardless of which state someone chooses. Upset with idaho so gonna go somewhere else. Where? WY? CO? MT? NM? AZ? OR? NV? UT? All will be new units. Most will take preference points. Most you won't be able to get deer and elk in the same unit and all except oregon archery will be a draw a draw system for single units.
I hate change as much or more as the next guy but my point will be and will always be.....find a new way. I hunt lots because I hustle hard to stay out ahead of this stuff and always have a plan. Thats gets you hunts. Throwing your hands up and shouting poor me will find a guy on the couch looking at everyone else's success on huntwa.
Thats a metaphorical "you", not a you specifically taco. I just want everyone to change the way they look at obstacles. Its always easier to go negative but its seldom the right approach :twocents:
Post by: LongBomb on December 02, 2020, 11:18:00 AM
I can maybe see some of the other point of views for grumbling but not the $ side. Similar to what Karl said, Idaho is still a better value than other states.
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on December 02, 2020, 11:24:29 AM
I really think Idaho should've focused on the specific areas that had problems with quotas (like they have elsewhere) and let the rest self-regulate. Heck, even WA doesn't make you pick a specific unit for deer or elk!
I sincerely hope they do not sell out.
Maybe they are trying to avoid turning into what Washington already is?
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Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 02, 2020, 11:26:38 AM
For the millions out of work, not being able to afford it isn't a stretch at all, it's a fact for many.
Not everyone can hunt out of state to begin with, so who cares who isn't $1100. Many can't afford it, so they don't. For those who can it might be time to go to a different state since they all cost about the same anyway.
A new unit can simply be a new unit, but not for those who have hunted one area for years on end. For those who once upon a time hunted a new unit, they didn't have to with prices this high. And for those that can't simply get there in less than a days drive scouting prior to the season may not be an option. Big gamble. And again, new unit with the same money, why choose Idaho instead of any of the other states?
For one person it's a $315 increase. For a family of three, almost $1000 difference. Then add in the one unit restriction. And Covid related loss of wages. And having to pay right now or you won't get a unit you want, if you were able to get it at all. Will they even be able to get that time off, guaranteed, from work if they are working? It all makes a difference.
If you want to great. I'm just saying I think it will result in many people saying no thanks, or not this year.
I get that but thats not idaho's fault. Those problems will exist regardless of which state someone chooses. Upset with idaho so gonna go somewhere else. Where? WY? CO? MT? NM? AZ? OR? NV? UT? All will be new units. Most will take preference points. Most you won't be able to get deer and elk in the same unit and all except oregon archery will be a draw a draw system for single units.
I hate change as much or more as the next guy but my point will be and will always be.....find a new way. I hunt lots because I hustle hard to stay out ahead of this stuff and always have a plan. Thats gets you hunts. Throwing your hands up and shouting poor me will find a guy on the couch looking at everyone else's success on huntwa.
Thats a metaphorical "you", not a you specifically taco. I just want everyone to change the way they look at obstacles. Its always easier to go negative but its seldom the right approach :twocents:
Agree with Karl here.
I'm planning on hunting multiple states this year and have priorities set in my life and have hustled to provide funds for my hunting budget. I could have been laid off in October if I chose to but I'm still working because extra money will give me the funds to be able to hunt multiple states! I'm not rich, but if it means prioritizing my budget so be it!
Extra money can always be made in a months work of side work. How bad do you want it?
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2020, 11:27:16 AM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 02, 2020, 11:28:48 AM
Hopefully next step for Idaho is banning harvest of antlerless deer on general and white tail tags except for youth, disabled, and elderly!
I really think Idaho should've focused on the specific areas that had problems with quotas (like they have elsewhere) and let the rest self-regulate. Heck, even WA doesn't make you pick a specific unit for deer or elk!
I sincerely hope they do not sell out.
Maybe they are trying to avoid turning into what Washington already is?
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 11:32:48 AM
I don't think the issue is the extra money as much as the fact that you have to buy your tag on December 1st for the following year. No other state makes you plan that far ahead. I apply in Wyoming every year for deer and antelope and I have until the end of May to make my plans and send in my money.money has been brought up multiple times which is why it was argued..
Idaho tags always go on sale in Dec. Thats not new. Whats new is people now having to prioritize idaho instead of treating her like a side piece.
Post by: idaho guy on December 02, 2020, 11:33:01 AM
I don't think they really knew what they were doing. How do they know the exact quantity of "resident participation" in each deer unit? They have some idea due to self reporting, but they have no idea in reality. They're about to find out which deer units are worth the extra $50 and which were never worth the original.
I sincerely hope that they do not sell out of either deer or elk tags and that residents get the chance they've been waiting for to buy a second. So many of the message boards indicate that those folks want to, but lets see what happens when the rubber meets the road.
It was not many years ago when they couldn't sell their elk tags for $299 each, to anyone. I bought a second one in 2015 in November.
Regardless, this is a lesson for everyone, Idaho included. This will not be the final version, this is a learning experience.
Any leftover tags will be 100 percent bought out by resident hunters. My opinion but will see. there were lots of local people bummed this year with no second tags. Discounted tags were kind of peak of wolves low of elk years. Now that wolves getting managed aggressively I don’t see that happening again. Plus we’re getting better at trapping wolves (most trappers besides me :chuckle:) but I got a plan this year so we’ll see on wolves ha ha. I think Idaho will have to go to a lot more draw units just too many new residents every year. This is just a step in that direction trying to manage non resident numbers first. I would rather have them do whatever they can to avoid going draw only even if the first year is a bit of a cluster. The right thing to do is try and manage and spread out non residents first. But the real problem is new resident hunters moving here by the thousands monthly. There is no system to cap those tags or spread them out. Only solution will be more and more draw areas and finally the whole state goes draw for everything and everyone. That will be a bummer but I don’t see any way around it too many new people.
Post by: Jimmy33 on December 02, 2020, 11:34:24 AM
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 11:38:27 AM
I dont mind the change with one exception...im an avid deer hunter and have been steadily NOT elk hunting these days. I would like to see the elk tags and deer tags go on sale on different days. I did end up getting the tag I wanted but it was the very last one. I logged in early and just couldn’t get on until I had an 8000 plus number assigned. I believe, although I could be wrong, that this would help with the hustle of the December 1 craziness and help with the people who buy deer tags to go along with their elk tags for OTC units and vice versa. I know its selfish but I think it would help the people who focus more on one or the other get their tags instead of the people at the beginning getting the pick of the litter for both species.it would definitely help to alleviate some server traffic at least. Maybe make it different days as the first day of resident sales as well to further eliminate some traffic.
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Idaho guy, do you know if the leftover NR tags will be unit specific as second tags for residents or will they be just standard statewide tags like previous
Post by: baker5150 on December 02, 2020, 11:41:14 AM
I don't think the issue is the extra money as much as the fact that you have to buy your tag on December 1st for the following year. No other state makes you plan that far ahead. I apply in Wyoming every year for deer and antelope and I have until the end of May to make my plans and send in my money.money has been brought up multiple times which is why it was argued..
Idaho tags always go on sale in Dec. Thats not new. Whats new is people now having to prioritize idaho instead of treating her like a side piece.
:yeah:
It'll be interesting to see how this will effect Non-Res tags in other states, now that ID isn't the fall back for OTC.
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 11:46:39 AM
If the goal is to make memories with friends or family then take that $1200, buy a side of beef, and have some great BBQs/camping trips. There's always options.
Your argument gives the impression that people either have to hunt out of state, or they're just upset, negative, poor me people who can't overcome obstacles.
I don't see anyone shouting poor me, but even last year I met guys in Idaho who weren't sure if they were coming back. Everyone has their reasons, don't look down on them for their choices.
As for me, I'm still furloughed, have applied to hundreds of pilot positions, but with somewhere between 5,000-10,000 pilots (hard to get a real number with furloughs plus many taking a LOA, early retirements while still looking to work, zero time lines, etc) competing for those jobs, still no luck. Maybe I finally start at the major I have a job offer with next year and am in training or can't get the time off to hunt, just money wasted. Or find a new job and can't hunt for the same reasons. Or if I don't at all, I'll just save that money in case I really need it down the road. And even if I said I'll shell out for it, I still don't like the unit restriction. Not mad at Idaho, no poor me attitude, it's just not worth it to me under the circumstances, so I'll pass.
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
Post by: idaho guy on December 02, 2020, 11:50:32 AM
I dont mind the change with one exception...im an avid deer hunter and have been steadily NOT elk hunting these days. I would like to see the elk tags and deer tags go on sale on different days. I did end up getting the tag I wanted but it was the very last one. I logged in early and just couldn’t get on until I had an 8000 plus number assigned. I believe, although I could be wrong, that this would help with the hustle of the December 1 craziness and help with the people who buy deer tags to go along with their elk tags for OTC units and vice versa. I know its selfish but I think it would help the people who focus more on one or the other get their tags instead of the people at the beginning getting the pick of the litter for both species.it would definitely help to alleviate some server traffic at least. Maybe make it different days as the first day of resident sales as well to further eliminate some traffic.
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Idaho guy, do you know if the leftover NR tags will be unit specific as second tags for residents or will they be just standard statewide tags like previous
Wow that’s a good point I hadn’t considered so I have no idea. I don’t think all the leftovers would be bought as second tags if residents had to pick a unit. If there statewide I feel 100 percent of leftover will be bought as second tag quick. If there unit specific might only be some really marginal units left to choose from
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 11:53:44 AM
Post by: idaho guy on December 02, 2020, 11:55:03 AM
I dont mind the change with one exception...im an avid deer hunter and have been steadily NOT elk hunting these days. I would like to see the elk tags and deer tags go on sale on different days. I did end up getting the tag I wanted but it was the very last one. I logged in early and just couldn’t get on until I had an 8000 plus number assigned. I believe, although I could be wrong, that this would help with the hustle of the December 1 craziness and help with the people who buy deer tags to go along with their elk tags for OTC units and vice versa. I know its selfish but I think it would help the people who focus more on one or the other get their tags instead of the people at the beginning getting the pick of the litter for both species.
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They need to do this :tup: If nothing else it reduces the major cluster of everyone jumping on at once
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 12:09:44 PM
Pretty obvious that everyone has different financial positions in life and that effects what they would do but this conversation is about idaho so im assuming that anyone upset about this was planning a week vacation and planning to spend the money to hunt out if state. So based on those two things, is it not fair to assume ones options are to stay home or go to another state and pay the same amount of money to hunt a single unit? I feel thats a pretty safe assumption
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on December 02, 2020, 12:16:18 PM
1) This was a way for Idaho to get more money into IDFG without raising rates for resident hunters.
2) The woods are super overcrowded. There has been a massive influx of people moving to Idaho, add that to the massive amount of non-res hunters and the woods are a mad house. The resident hunters are very vocal about this and they helped to create the new changes.
3) You want to play, you have to pay. Could be a lot worse.
I talked to him about the DAV tags. He is a Vet himself so he can see the frustrations. I see it like this: Idaho was doing something that none of the other western states were doing. It was an amazing opportunity that many of us took advantage of. To be honest, the first year I bought a DAV tag I told my wife that this would not last. People would figure it out and they would have to cut the tags. So, it was not a surprise that it happened. What was a surprise was the BS way the lottery worked out to draw them. By cutting them as much as they did it was impossible to think they would not have sold out. They should have let the qualified DAV enter a draw the day before. For those that only planned to hunt if they got that tag this would have been the best way to allow that and it would have cleared many of them out of the pool the following day, which in-turn, would have made things faster. That is my idea anyway.
It's hard because if you complain and make a stink IDFG might just say "Hey, you want to complain and be ungrateful that's fine. We will just terminate the program all together." So it feels like they have the DAV folks balls in a vice. Like, they gave this great opportunity and got a ton of folks to participate. Then they cut it massively, like so incredibly massive, and did so knowing that nobody could argue it in good faith without sounding like an ungrateful a-hole. Rock and a hard place for all the DAV qualified non-res hunters. I am pissed beyond belief I did not get my DAV elk tag this year. Trust me that I am. I just don't know how to complain without sounding like a POS. So I bought a normal non-res tag so I can still hunt with my buddies. I am mad, I don't have a solution which makes me more mad. However, I want to hunt Idaho and so I gave them my money and I hold hope that they come up with a better system next year.
Post by: KFhunter on December 02, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 12:27:09 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 12:29:25 PM
Also the price increase was approved a long time ago and is no surprise, so a guy either budgeted for it or he didn't. If he didn't he wasn't buy tags to begin with so its just folks complaining on the internet at this point.
Okay, price and unit:
It may not be that they didn't budget for it if they simply say it isn't worth it to them anymore. There's many things in life I can afford to buy, but don't value the product enough to spend the money they want. Even with my employment situation I could easily buy an elk tag, but at $837 it just isn't worth it, to me. That isn't complaining, just a choice. But realistically that price with my situation, it's an easy no.
And if someone has to wait in order to determine when they can get vacation for, their first, second, third, fourth, or even fifth+ choice may be gone. At that point it may not be worth it so they sit it out. There is a choice of not going, without being butthurt.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on December 02, 2020, 12:38:23 PM
I know a guy in Idaho, he is very smart and holds a position in the state. I met him while hunting and we have become friends. He is a very unique Idahoan in that he actually likes the non res hunters. He thinks they are typically more skilled and more respectful than many of the residents because, if you are spending that kind of money you have to be more serious. He is a really great guy and I respect his opinion. I talked with him yesterday and he brought these few points to light.Instead of cutting back the DAV deer tags to 500 (1500 were sold last year) I think they should have just made the DAV tags unlimited again and sold them at the new non resident youth price. I know it would have been an increase over the previous DAV price, but better than a free for all at 1000 mountain time and it would ensure all DAVs got a discount at least. Im a DAV and I would be ok with the increase.
1) This was a way for Idaho to get more money into IDFG without raising rates for resident hunters.
2) The woods are super overcrowded. There has been a massive influx of people moving to Idaho, add that to the massive amount of non-res hunters and the woods are a mad house. The resident hunters are very vocal about this and they helped to create the new changes.
3) You want to play, you have to pay. Could be a lot worse.
I talked to him about the DAV tags. He is a Vet himself so he can see the frustrations. I see it like this: Idaho was doing something that none of the other western states were doing. It was an amazing opportunity that many of us took advantage of. To be honest, the first year I bought a DAV tag I told my wife that this would not last. People would figure it out and they would have to cut the tags. So, it was not a surprise that it happened. What was a surprise was the BS way the lottery worked out to draw them. By cutting them as much as they did it was impossible to think they would not have sold out. They should have let the qualified DAV enter a draw the day before. For those that only planned to hunt if they got that tag this would have been the best way to allow that and it would have cleared many of them out of the pool the following day, which in-turn, would have made things faster. That is my idea anyway.
It's hard because if you complain and make a stink IDFG might just say "Hey, you want to complain and be ungrateful that's fine. We will just terminate the program all together." So it feels like they have the DAV folks balls in a vice. Like, they gave this great opportunity and got a ton of folks to participate. Then they cut it massively, like so incredibly massive, and did so knowing that nobody could argue it in good faith without sounding like an ungrateful a-hole. Rock and a hard place for all the DAV qualified non-res hunters. I am pissed beyond belief I did not get my DAV elk tag this year. Trust me that I am. I just don't know how to complain without sounding like a POS. So I bought a normal non-res tag so I can still hunt with my buddies. I am mad, I don't have a solution which makes me more mad. However, I want to hunt Idaho and so I gave them my money and I hold hope that they come up with a better system next year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 12:44:23 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 02, 2020, 12:51:28 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 12:52:45 PM
All valid points but then if said individual comes on huntwa and complains about those two exact points is that not kind of the definition of butthurt :chuckle:
Not if it's an explanation of why they're not hunting ;)
Reminds me of primary training at Rucker with the TH67. Helicopters aren't the easiest to learn to fly, as your brother knew, and I wasn't doing something quite right so my instructor was calling me on it. Unless you were already a helicopter pilot upon showing up, NOBODY could hover day one (or even two or three solidly) with them on all the controls. I was telling them what was going on and they said all they're hearing are excuses. No, I'm giving you an explanation from my point of view so maybe you'll understand my thought process and what I'm doing so we can fix it. All about perspective.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 01:06:35 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on December 02, 2020, 01:12:58 PM
So maybe they just won't hunt out of state? Or complain about it and do it anyway :chuckle:
As for a complaint, why is my Crispi delivery taking so long? Ordered the 27th with a delivery date of the 1st (they determined that, not me). They were in Springfield the 28th, in the possession of USPS and at the post office. It took till the 1st to get to the distribution center in Springfield. Now on the 2nd they've only made it to KC. From the 27th till the 2nd and still haven't left the state. USPS sucks
Post by: ballpark on December 02, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
The price is BS. The single unit is BS :chuckle:
So maybe they just won't hunt out of state? Or complain about it and do it anyway :chuckle:
As for a complaint, why is my Crispi delivery taking so long? Ordered the 27th with a delivery date of the 1st (they determined that, not me). They were in Springfield the 28th, in the possession of USPS and at the post office. It took till the 1st to get to the distribution center in Springfield. Now on the 2nd they've only made it to KC. From the 27th till the 2nd and still haven't left the state. USPS sucks
I got some new Crispi boots in the mail yesterday. Santa must be looking out for me, didn't even ask for them :chuckle:
Post by: vandeman17 on December 02, 2020, 01:19:22 PM
The price is BS. The single unit is BS :chuckle:
So maybe they just won't hunt out of state? Or complain about it and do it anyway :chuckle:
As for a complaint, why is my Crispi delivery taking so long? Ordered the 27th with a delivery date of the 1st (they determined that, not me). They were in Springfield the 28th, in the possession of USPS and at the post office. It took till the 1st to get to the distribution center in Springfield. Now on the 2nd they've only made it to KC. From the 27th till the 2nd and still haven't left the state. USPS sucks
They are on the same truck as some of the Georgia ballots
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
Everyone that's bitching about the wait time and related slowness on the game and fish site has posted a screen shot of some white dude slowly walking across a green bar.
Let's just say my guy was far more athletic.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 02, 2020, 01:34:50 PM
Post by: dvolmer on December 02, 2020, 01:36:30 PM
I feel like I've beaten this dead horse too much so my closing argument is mow some lawns for some side cash, pick a unit, and go have an adventure! The animals are there for the taking and the mountains are always the great equalizer. Choose to hunt always for every hunt you don't go on is an adventure you cannot and will not get back. One hard lesson i learned from my brothers death years ago was that tomorrow IS NOT a guarantee so you better get your asses going on making every day and every moment count :twocents:
Totally agree with the above! Especially now that I am 55 years old! Randy Newberg said it best, "Hunt whenever you can!!! Your going to run out of health way before you run out of money!!!" I learned the same way as I watched my hunting partner fight colon cancer for 7 years and then pass away from it. I don't have skin in the game you might say because I don't currently hunt Idaho. Washington, Montana, and Wyoming are as much as an old man like me can handle (or maybe this old mans wife can handle). Every year you put it off is one year you wont get back and your health is going to do nothing but go one direction over time. If you want to make it happen you can! And Karl, along with working out at the Hanford Site for 32 years and owning and running an older RV/MH park, I do mow 25 lawns a week!!! Not sure why, but it keeps me young and helps pay for my tags!!! ;)
Post by: Dhoey07 on December 02, 2020, 01:37:24 PM
Price, well, that is what is it. Pay or don't, I won't argue what they charge.
I like the timing. Gives me time to plan vacation and other hunts. If States did their draws and sales all at the same time it would be a jumbled mess for many.
Post by: Bigshooter on December 02, 2020, 01:40:25 PM
Post by: 2MANY on December 02, 2020, 01:44:50 PM
1) I need to mow lawns.
2) I need to find someone else to mow my lawn so I can hunt today.
3) My health is getting worse.
Post by: Ironhead on December 02, 2020, 01:56:53 PM
I've been apply in most western states for over 20 years and there are 2 thing that you can count on price increases and tag cuts. Factor them in now or stop applying. If you don't do one of these 2 things it's your fault for getting mad.You forgot point creep!
Post by: dvolmer on December 02, 2020, 02:38:02 PM
Things I've learned here:
1) I need to mow lawns.
2) I need to find someone else to mow my lawn so I can hunt today.
3) My health is getting worse.
Love It!!!!!!
Post by: 7mmfan on December 02, 2020, 03:05:26 PM
I'm not mad about the money. It sucks spending more money, but as it's been stated many times over, Idaho is now closer to in line with other western states. They are closer to me than other western states, so I'll save money on fuel, and time on the road.
I'm not even mad about the quotas. I see more non resident plates where we hunt than resident plates. I'm confident it will help distribute the pressure and the hunting quality over time should reflect that.
What pisses me off is that it was a mad dash, into a new system that everyone supposedly had equal ability to get tags, but it didn't work that way. Guys that logged on literally seconds before me were thousands of places up the line and got tags. It was just a literal crap shoot.
Also, we have a group of guys that hunt together. We WANT to hunt TOGETHER. Well, one of those guys got his elk tag, but not a deer tag. One guy got his elk tag, but got a deer tag in a different unit. Two of us didn't get any tags. Another friend in a group of 3 got his deer tag but his partners did not. So suddenly our group of 4 is split in half with guys being forced to go different directions, or not at all and another group is no longer a group and one guy is having to plan this trip solo now. There is also no guarantee that it won't be that way next year, so how are we supposed to continue planning trips to this state as a group, when we can't guarantee that we can get tags as a group? At least in other western states, you apply to the draw as a group and you either get the tags or you don't and you move on.
That is the part that infuriates me the more I think about it.
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2020, 03:15:03 PM
Very well said. Although I wasn't one of the people trying to buy tags yesterday, that's the biggest problem I see with their new system. Now you can't plan as a group and count on getting the same tags and hunting together. It reminds of the exact same problem we now have here in southwest Washington, where a majority of the best big game hunting is on Weyerhaeuser land, where an access permit is required. The permits are first come first serve, sold only online, and if you're not really quick and really lucky, you won't get one. So families and groups of hunters that used to hunt together can no longer plan on doing that. It's a really bad thing when it comes to keeping the hunting tradition alive. Hopefully Idaho will fix the issues by next year. Seems to me that they're going to have to go to some sort of a draw type of system.
Post by: 270Flat on December 02, 2020, 03:15:24 PM
My concern for our group. Our first choice had a lower quota and tried to be early. One guy had #900 something... one guy get a tag and a couple others get different tags ... our group is suddenly split in a different state. Luckily we all got a elk tag in our plan “B” area. I was online early and kept refreshing in order for it to not time out. I had been on for 45 mins and was #6900+ Last of our group of guys. Once it all crashed we nearly all got our tags paid for and confirmed near the same time.
Overall happy we got tags in an area we know. This just proved to me that next year is gonna be worse since it is gonna be a mad rush. might have to take the day off from work to get tags...
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 02, 2020, 03:31:23 PM
Do you still have to print your license and then they mail you the tag or they mail everything to you now?
Ya that! :yeah: Need to know ASAP for stocking stuffers!!!!!! :IBCOOL:
Post by: Brushbuster on December 02, 2020, 03:43:22 PM
Do you still have to print your license and then they mail you the tag or they mail everything to you now?
Ya that! :yeah: Need to know ASAP for stocking stuffers!!!!!! :IBCOOL:
I did buy the new "hard card" for $5. This will have your license plus some other non-notchable permits listed on it.
Post by: idaho guy on December 02, 2020, 03:48:34 PM
There's been a lot ground covered since Karl posted the question about what we were really mad about, but here's my position.
I'm not mad about the money. It sucks spending more money, but as it's been stated many times over, Idaho is now closer to in line with other western states. They are closer to me than other western states, so I'll save money on fuel, and time on the road.
I'm not even mad about the quotas. I see more non resident plates where we hunt than resident plates. I'm confident it will help distribute the pressure and the hunting quality over time should reflect that.
What pisses me off is that it was a mad dash, into a new system that everyone supposedly had equal ability to get tags, but it didn't work that way. Guys that logged on literally seconds before me were thousands of places up the line and got tags. It was just a literal crap shoot.
Also, we have a group of guys that hunt together. We WANT to hunt TOGETHER. Well, one of those guys got his elk tag, but not a deer tag. One guy got his elk tag, but got a deer tag in a different unit. Two of us didn't get any tags. Another friend in a group of 3 got his deer tag but his partners did not. So suddenly our group of 4 is split in half with guys being forced to go different directions, or not at all and another group is no longer a group and one guy is having to plan this trip solo now. There is also no guarantee that it won't be that way next year, so how are we supposed to continue planning trips to this state as a group, when we can't guarantee that we can get tags as a group? At least in other western states, you apply to the draw as a group and you either get the tags or you don't and you move on.
That is the part that infuriates me the more I think about it.
Only answer is draw system. I know Idaho’s been resisting that since all the surveys of hunters come back as wanting to hunt otc every year over a draw system. Draw system is coming anyways might be better if started with non resident draws. I see your point about getting split up it makes sense
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 02, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2020, 03:52:16 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 02, 2020, 07:51:01 PM
There's been a lot ground covered since Karl posted the question about what we were really mad about, but here's my position.
I'm not mad about the money. It sucks spending more money, but as it's been stated many times over, Idaho is now closer to in line with other western states. They are closer to me than other western states, so I'll save money on fuel, and time on the road.
I'm not even mad about the quotas. I see more non resident plates where we hunt than resident plates. I'm confident it will help distribute the pressure and the hunting quality over time should reflect that.
What pisses me off is that it was a mad dash, into a new system that everyone supposedly had equal ability to get tags, but it didn't work that way. Guys that logged on literally seconds before me were thousands of places up the line and got tags. It was just a literal crap shoot.
Also, we have a group of guys that hunt together. We WANT to hunt TOGETHER. Well, one of those guys got his elk tag, but not a deer tag. One guy got his elk tag, but got a deer tag in a different unit. Two of us didn't get any tags. Another friend in a group of 3 got his deer tag but his partners did not. So suddenly our group of 4 is split in half with guys being forced to go different directions, or not at all and another group is no longer a group and one guy is having to plan this trip solo now. There is also no guarantee that it won't be that way next year, so how are we supposed to continue planning trips to this state as a group, when we can't guarantee that we can get tags as a group? At least in other western states, you apply to the draw as a group and you either get the tags or you don't and you move on.
That is the part that infuriates me the more I think about it.
Very well said.... The whole thing is what it is.... until it breaks up camps and families. As Bobcat posted, this is one of the huge problems with the timber land passes.
I hate to say it, but I would rather see draws than what we just saw happen.
Post by: lewy on December 02, 2020, 07:56:17 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on December 03, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
Fair post corey. Like you said though, the DAV program was discovered and got to an over use point. At the end of the day IDFG is charged with managing that states wildlife and sometimes that has to come at a cost if there is over use. Ive never come away from an interaction with anyone at IDFG that wasn't positive. Id encourage you to write them and offer constructive solutions to some of the issues (like doing the DAV sales on a different day). At the end of the day its easy to sit back and judge other humans for being human. The DAV thing was for sure just an oversight. Im betting there aren't too many folks in IDFG that didn't want to see veterans get tags :twocents:
I get it and I don't think any of if was malicious. I just don't think it was very well planned out. The tags are selling in record time so I don't see any changes coming for next year. This is of course in regards to the cost and amount of tags. I do hope that there are enough complaints about the process though and that a positive change is made to that.
Post by: kselkhunter on December 03, 2020, 08:34:00 AM
Clearly Idaho F&G website was experiencing some glitches on December 1st. I wonder what the extend of the glitches was.
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 03, 2020, 08:43:17 AM
Very strange. I posted on December 1st that I had logged in at 12:49pm just as a check for future reference for myself how many tags would be left after the initial mad dash, and on my screen none of the deer options were available for me to purchase but there were non-res elk tags available and I posted that it appeared that deer tags had sold out. After seeing following posts from guys stating there were lots of tags leftover I logged back in today to see.....sure enough Idaho is now showing both "deer regular" and "adult white tailed deer" tags available.
Clearly Idaho F&G website was experiencing some glitches on December 1st. I wonder what the extend of the glitches was.
Yeah I was sitting there looking at the deer tags trying to make a decision when you posted that. Bummer that so many people had technical problems while there were still likely tags available for the hunts they wanted
Post by: bracer40 on December 03, 2020, 08:55:27 AM
Post by: Snakeriver10 on December 03, 2020, 09:33:52 AM
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 03, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Well, they could still have first come first serve tags but allow a person to purchase multiple tags at the same time for a group of people. So just like with a draw system, either everyone in the group gets a tag, or nobody in the group gets a tag.
I feel like this is very doable.... you can always put a time limit on the additional tags like when you apply as a group.... where the group leader reserves so many tags for the group and then the individuals can buy said reserved tags within 24hrs by entering in the group leaders hunter ID else they go back to the pool.
It's the first year ,there are going to be kinks, and when it comes to hunting and tags there is no real good beta process like when you develop software and games. Though I guess they could have done a beta to an extent by inviting people (previous non-resident) to do a fake purchase in the system weeks before the release.... though is that the best use of money and resources? Would it have flushed out all the problems? From a wildlife management stand point which is the ultimate goal of IDFG, missing the group function wont hurt deer and elk populations. So this could have very well been the beta and next year they will have the bugs worked out.
Post by: kselkhunter on December 03, 2020, 09:36:44 AM
More than anything this has caused, I believe poaching will go sky high in Idaho! Idaho is already a poacher friendly state, now by limiting tags, it will cause even more to become trigger happy without a tag. Just because you limit the amount of tags doesn’t mean you won’t limit the amount of animals killed.
I have a hard time believing a non-resident is going to drive all the way to Idaho to poach an animal.....I'd say out of state poaching is much more rare than in-state.
Post by: Snakeriver10 on December 03, 2020, 09:47:56 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 03, 2020, 09:50:11 AM
Idaho is already a poacher friendly stateHuh? How is it poacher friendly?
Post by: CoryTDF on December 03, 2020, 09:54:32 AM
Idaho is already a poacher friendly stateHuh? How is it poacher friendly?
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
I can see no logical response to this???????????
Post by: CoryTDF on December 03, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
What about the non resident that was only Able you purchase a deer tag and comes across a bull? All different scenarios!
9.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 times out of 10 that guy just looks at the bull and keeps on hunting for deer.
Post by: kselkhunter on December 03, 2020, 10:02:33 AM
Well, they could still have first come first serve tags but allow a person to purchase multiple tags at the same time for a group of people. So just like with a draw system, either everyone in the group gets a tag, or nobody in the group gets a tag.
I feel like this is very doable.... you can always put a time limit on the additional tags like when you apply as a group.... where the group leader reserves so many tags for the group and then the individuals can buy said reserved tags within 24hrs by entering in the group leaders hunter ID else they go back to the pool.
It's the first year ,there are going to be kinks, and when it comes to hunting and tags there is no real good beta process like when you develop software and games. Though I guess they could have done a beta to an extent by inviting people (previous non-resident) to do a fake purchase in the system weeks before the release.... though is that the best use of money and resources? Would it have flushed out all the problems? From a wildlife management stand point which is the ultimate goal of IDFG, missing the group function wont hurt deer and elk populations. So this could have very well been the beta and next year they will have the bugs worked out.
True. Idaho Fish & Game has been rather reasonable over the years. My expectation is they'll hear the feedback and realize they had a few glitches, and will implement some minor changes to further streamline it for next year. My guess is ID did indeed do internal beta testing, but perhaps their back end server/software setup wasn't truly ready for the amount of demand in the short time window and thus the glitches that happened. I've never have had reason to have any issues with Idaho F&G (I've lived there in ID, as well as in WA and OR over the years) and they'll probably get it more streamlined for next year. I don't see Idaho F&G trying to intentionally alienate non-residents.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 03, 2020, 10:03:58 AM
Post by: JoeE on December 03, 2020, 10:11:25 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 03, 2020, 10:20:50 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on December 03, 2020, 10:30:47 AM
I do know one thing about this new system. The state generated a ton of monies quickly which I know will be used to properly manage the resources we all here enjoy to pursue. The managers for all these funds seem to be doing a great good allocating the funds where needed! :tup:
From a budgeting perspective, this was a smart move by IDFG. The tags sell out anyway so it's really a matter of timing on when the funds come in. Changing the situation to drive tag purchases in December by the quota method allows most of the money to arrive at once every December so they can use it in larger chunks for big projects throughout the year instead of it trickling in over time.
Unlimited non-resident tags was not going to be sustainable for the herds with Idaho's growing resident population....this change was coming some day no matter what so it's smart for IDFG to get ahead of the curve on this. And by setting the quota the way they did, it makes for a more predictive budgeting cycle for their projects. In financial parlance, non-residents are a recurring annuity for Idaho F&G budgeting cycles. Idaho isn't going to risk the size of that annuity by alienating non-residents, and this change makes that annuity more predictive on when the bulk of the funds arrive.
Post by: X-Force on December 03, 2020, 11:01:51 AM
Post by: Stein on December 03, 2020, 11:11:53 AM
Post by: Johnny Doe on December 03, 2020, 11:14:25 AM
I do know one thing about this new system. The state generated a ton of monies quickly which I know will be used to properly manage the resources we all here enjoy to pursue. The managers for all these funds seem to be doing a great good allocating the funds where needed! :tup:
From a budgeting perspective, this was a smart move by IDFG. The tags sell out anyway so it's really a matter of timing on when the funds come in. Changing the situation to drive tag purchases in December by the quota method allows most of the money to arrive at once every December so they can use it in larger chunks for big projects throughout the year instead of it trickling in over time.
Unlimited non-resident tags was not going to be sustainable for the herds with Idaho's growing resident population....this change was coming some day no matter what so it's smart for IDFG to get ahead of the curve on this. And by setting the quota the way they did, it makes for a more predictive budgeting cycle for their projects. In financial parlance, non-residents are a recurring annuity for Idaho F&G budgeting cycles. Idaho isn't going to risk the size of that annuity by alienating non-residents, and this change makes that annuity more predictive on when the bulk of the funds arrive.
:yeah: IMO IDFG is one of the best, if not the best state agencies in the west. They do a good job of managing for the resource (fish and game) and not for the revenue!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 03, 2020, 11:25:41 AM
They also get your money before you can spend it buying tags for another state.Thats a moot point though as the NR tag quota sells out regardless. They know they are getting their cash and losing nothing to other states.
Post by: elkboy on December 03, 2020, 11:46:57 AM
To the topic, I think IDFG is caught amidst some strong pressures, as noted by a lot on here. There are bound to be problems as they try to adjust. I do hear the frustrations as expressed by people on here, though, such as the disabled veterans and those who really value the family/group hunting experience. Maybe IDFG's leadership can take all this into account in future years.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 03, 2020, 11:55:03 AM
Just another of many symptoms of living in a world of 7.8 billion people, with another 5-6 billion on the way by the end of the century. There will come a day when hunting will be a thing of the past for all but a vanishingly small minority of either the very rich or the few remaining people in remote settings, I fear. Sorry to digress in such a cynical manner.you're not wrong but your post reminded me of this :chuckle:
Post by: elkboy on December 03, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
Post by: idaho guy on December 03, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
Idaho is already a poacher friendly stateHuh? How is it poacher friendly?
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
I can see no logical response to this???????????
x3 that makes no sense :dunno:
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 03, 2020, 03:43:33 PM
Just another of many symptoms of living in a world of 7.8 billion people, with another 5-6 billion on the way by the end of the century. There will come a day when hunting will be a thing of the past for all but a vanishingly small minority of either the very rich or the few remaining people in remote settings, I fear. Sorry to digress in such a cynical manner.you're not wrong but your post reminded me of this :chuckle:
You guys don´t dress like that...? (am I in the wrong forum again...?)
Post by: 2MANY on December 03, 2020, 03:51:03 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 03, 2020, 04:05:54 PM
Just another of many symptoms of living in a world of 7.8 billion people, with another 5-6 billion on the way by the end of the century. There will come a day when hunting will be a thing of the past for all but a vanishingly small minority of either the very rich or the few remaining people in remote settings, I fear. Sorry to digress in such a cynical manner.you're not wrong but your post reminded me of this :chuckle:
You guys don´t dress like that...? (am I in the wrong forum again...?)
Kuiu's new urban take over camo. I heard they had some local guys testing it out.
Post by: Pegasus on December 04, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Just another of many symptoms of living in a world of 7.8 billion people, with another 5-6 billion on the way by the end of the century. There will come a day when hunting will be a thing of the past for all but a vanishingly small minority of either the very rich or the few remaining people in remote settings, I fear. Sorry to digress in such a cynical manner.you're not wrong but your post reminded me of this :chuckle:
You guys don´t dress like that...? (am I in the wrong forum again...?)
Kuiu's new urban take over camo. I heard they had some local guys testing it out.
He's right ...there will be no need to hunt when everyone is eating Soylent Green.
Post by: elkboy on December 04, 2020, 05:26:12 PM
This is getting a little dark...
Post by: huntnut26 on December 05, 2020, 06:58:13 AM
Post by: High Climber on December 05, 2020, 07:14:54 AM
Have not read everyone's response so sorry if its already been brought up but the only drawbacks I see are 1) people that hunt in groups not all being able to get same tags and 2) its hard for the people that are unable sit and wait for for their opportunity to get a highly sought after tag while at work. Unfortunately OTC limited tags are first come first served and not sure how it can be fixed without going to a draw that no one wants to see happen.
A draw would be better than those first come first served *censored* shows. With demand that high it’s essentially a draw anyways because you get your place in line (number) and then wait to see if your tag or any tag is available when your number is up. IMO first come first served works well when the quota lasts at least a few days, but not stuff that sells basically right away I.E. DAV elk /deer, diamond creek elk, pioneer elk etc.
Post by: The scout on December 05, 2020, 07:51:38 AM
Post by: huntnut26 on December 05, 2020, 10:08:48 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on December 05, 2020, 02:14:16 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 05, 2020, 05:51:31 PM
Post by: High Climber on December 05, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
If they go draw, I hope they keep the way it is now and keep points out of it.
Absolutely
Post by: Jimmy33 on December 05, 2020, 10:45:32 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: vandeman17 on December 06, 2020, 06:13:58 AM
Post by: idaho guy on December 06, 2020, 06:57:08 AM
Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 06, 2020, 07:09:13 AM
This was one of my initial thoughts as well. If anyone knows how to find the numbers logged into the "waiting room" prior to 9:00 that would give an idea. It was the rush through the door that creates the issues.
Stories of guys logged into the waiting room right at 8;45 that were kicked out and had 2.5 hour waits, others that were logged in early and got in and still had 35 to 40 minute waits, and still others who logged in after 9 and went straight to the front of the line.
I'm curious about the numbers of return tags this year. Selling out no is great on paper, how does it look in 6 months after everyone gets their results from other states etc.
Post by: Jimmy33 on December 06, 2020, 07:30:54 AM
Holding elk and deer tags days on separate days.
Giving DAV tags out unlimited and just increasing the price to the same as the new new non resident youth prices.
Both of these would have helped, not alleviated, the mad dash at 0845. Elk tags would be the first tags that to me would make since to make a draw. However, as far as the deer tags, it seems weird to have a draw system if there are still so many tags available...
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Post by: huntnnw on December 06, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Post by: huntnnw on December 06, 2020, 07:38:24 AM
Post by: wannabhntr on December 06, 2020, 07:40:23 AM
My wife had us both logged in early with our licences in our carts. I had friends from our group that were logged in an hour after us and were several thousand people ahead of us in line. They had no issues purchasing. When it was finally my wife's turn, she added her tag and attempted to check out. It continued to load for entire allotted time and ended up charging her for the license and kicked the tag out. When it was finally my turn she had no issues getting my license and tag and had time to spare. She stayed in my place in line and was able to get her tag. The system is definitely flawed. We are hunting the panhandle. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. If not, I would say one person could buy for their partners tags if they can do it in the allotted time.Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 06, 2020, 07:50:44 AM
Post by: msg on December 06, 2020, 08:02:09 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 06, 2020, 08:40:19 AM
Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
A draw system implies that you are trying to draw a specific tag/unit or whatever. This "draw" would just be for your spot in line. At that point, depending on where you are in line is how many choices of units you would have. :dunno:
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 06, 2020, 08:47:41 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 06, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
A draw system implies that you are trying to draw a specific tag/unit or whatever. This "draw" would just be for your spot in line. At that point, depending on where you are in line is how many choices of units you would have. :dunno:
Basically how MT does their alternates list. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see some variation of this, probably modified so a group can get under 1 number.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 06, 2020, 08:51:57 AM
Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
A draw system implies that you are trying to draw a specific tag/unit or whatever. This "draw" would just be for your spot in line. At that point, depending on where you are in line is how many choices of units you would have. :dunno:
Basically how MT does their alternates list. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see some variation of this, probably modified so a group can get under 1 number.
Exactly.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 06, 2020, 08:57:45 AM
Would it address the issue of party hunting and buying tags together?
And how would that work? Would you be given a specific date and time to make your selection? What if that time simply doesn't work for you, if you're working, taking kids to school, sleeping, or whatever?
A draw for a spot in line just seems like more hassle and headache. Just do a draw, no points.
Maybe when you put your name in the hat for a place in line, if you want to go in as a party you do it then and you collectively get one spot in line? Thinking out loud here.
I think that since the initial date is so dang early, they could come up with some system to work the way down the line
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 06, 2020, 01:49:27 PM
I think they should give preference to guys that have hunted the state the longest. :chuckle:I think they should give preference to guys that don’t own an ATV or SXS...
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 06, 2020, 02:07:48 PM
I think they should give preference to guys that have hunted the state the longest. :chuckle:I think they should give preference to guys that don’t own an ATV or SXS...
:chuckle: I was actually pleasantly surprised during elk season this year. It was my first time hunting a non-wilderness area in Idaho and I’ve always heard horror stories about every gate, closed road and rideable ridge line having a four wheeler on it. During our week in an otc unit I only had 1 side by side ride in behind us on a closed trail. Lots of gated roads that people walked in on and never did run into another hunter on foot. Pretty much the opposite of everything I read and definitely wayyyy better than WA
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 06, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
I think they should give preference to guys that have hunted the state the longest. :chuckle:I think they should give preference to guys that don’t own an ATV or SXS...
Double points for me then :IBCOOL:
Post by: idaho guy on December 06, 2020, 05:28:41 PM
Why not do a draw system for where you are in line? Give everyone a time to “apply” then do a draw for where you get to stand in line. Only issue, in my mind, this doesn’t resolve is the group aspect but I guess if one guy in your party gets the front of the line you could still group up per party number or something
Wouldn’t that just be a draw system? You would draw a number and that allows you to personally get in line to buy your tag which if you have the wrong number you have no chance of buying the tag you want. It would be easier just to let the computer do the math on your place in line and either give you the tag or the dreaded not selected :chuckle. The biggest problem I see for non residents is breaking up hunting groups with first come first served. It’s been mentioned let someone buy for the whole groups but this is open for abuse and would be complicated. If you think it was a crap show just imagine each person in line snapping up 4 or more high demand tags at once. Computer would not only have to keep track of influx of buyers but make sure each buyer was limited to x number of tags I guess 4 to 8 ? For group buyer. It would be a mad dash with highly coveted tags gone in seconds not minutes. Idaho can do as many backflips and other tricks to not say they have a draw but based on this year Idaho needs to do a draw for non res tags. I don’t think they will ever go to point system just straight draw. Or they can keep playing games to disguise a draw system as otc tags. Otc works when supply and demand were at least close to equal or supply exceeded demand a little. Who knows maybe after this year people decide it’s not worth it and we can have non res otc for a few more years. If demand stays the same it’s just easier to do a draw
A draw system implies that you are trying to draw a specific tag/unit or whatever. This "draw" would just be for your spot in line. At that point, depending on where you are in line is how many choices of units you would have. :dunno:
I was thinking just like Montana non resident draw for tags but with unit choices of 1 st choice 2nd 3 rd etc. I guess the real answer will be how many tags are left this year if any. I said it before but Idaho’s biggest issue is new resident hunters not non residents. Interesting the most dedicated best whitetail hunter I know in Idaho is hunting Washington as a non resident :yike:and Getting better bucks in your state than Idaho lol 😂
Post by: elkchaser54 on December 07, 2020, 02:58:11 AM
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on December 07, 2020, 07:36:53 AM
They show 5600 elk tags left for residents but only about 1200 of them are to capped units where elk actually are huntable. Idaho might not sell out. The uncapped units are garbage and no one will hunt those as a non resident for the nearly $1000 license cost.Boise river and weiser river zone both have tags left. Yea it’s crowded hunting but it’s also big country with a lot of elk and with a little boot leather and or ingenuity a guy can get away and have a good hunt in those 2 zones
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Post by: bearpaw on December 07, 2020, 10:36:46 AM
They show 5600 elk tags left for residents but only about 1200 of them are to capped units where elk actually are huntable. Idaho might not sell out. The uncapped units are garbage and no one will hunt those as a non resident for the nearly $1000 license cost.Boise river and weiser river zone both have tags left. Yea it’s crowded hunting but it’s also big country with a lot of elk and with a little boot leather and or ingenuity a guy can get away and have a good hunt in those 2 zones
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This is only early December! For over a decade I know for a fact non-res tags and licenses haven't sold this fast. There may be a handful of tags left in some units by this coming summer but many non-resident hunters across the country haven't even thought about where they are hunting next fall yet because they are still hunting in their home states. Many hunters look for their hunts in Jan & Feb, that's the reason the bulk of the outdoor hunting shows occur across the country in Jan/Feb. I will be surprised if there are any non-res elk tags left by this coming summer.
IMO and trying to look at this from IDFG's perspective, this new system will prove to be a great move, the residents will be happy that non-residents are being limited from crowding certain units, the state sells their non-res licenses and tags quicker and can plan budgeting better, and the large non-res price increase was essentially overlooked by non-res customers intent on getting in before tags sold out (marketing genius). It's all a win/win for IDFG. I do see the potential that certain units may be considered for draws in the future, but on the other hand if that is done there will simply be other units that become the quick sellers, so maybe there is nothing to gain by going down that path further. In the short term I think IDFG has accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
From my perspective, I love their new online sales page, it's extremely easy and quick to navigate, much better than their previous page, one of the best of any state. I would like to see them make a group option so you can add another hunter to your group (up to 4 or 6 hunters) before checking out, it seems they could use a pop up window to somehow do this, I would think it could be done.
Overall, it needs a tweak or two, but good job IDFG!
Post by: dvolmer on December 07, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Post by: High Climber on December 07, 2020, 07:47:27 PM
I don't hunt Idaho. I only hunt Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, but two guys that work at the same plant as I do have hunted for years in Idaho. These two guys showed up in my office this afternoon wanting to pick my brain on Montana options. So all I have to say is, these non-resident changes and reductions in Idaho are going to have much more far reaching impacts then just Idaho! Other western states will be having more applicants due to all of this. Just like we have seen Washington go in the turbo-toilet these last 5-10 years and massive amount of Washington hunters are throwing in the towel and hitting the out of state road, Getting out of state tags on a regular basis will soon (already is) be a thing of the past. I have had the luxury of hunting every year in Montana and Wyoming, It will soon be a every other or even a every third year thing! Price hikes will be the next big thing we will see in all these highly sought after non-resident hunting states. Enjoy it while you can fellas!!! Your kids will never be able to do this when they are your age!Yep I’m seriously looking at Montana this year for the first time because Idaho. The deer hunting isn’t good enough for the price at least where I’ve been the last few years... WA with just a few less people and a few more SxS
Post by: idaho guy on December 08, 2020, 07:19:39 AM
I don't hunt Idaho. I only hunt Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, but two guys that work at the same plant as I do have hunted for years in Idaho. These two guys showed up in my office this afternoon wanting to pick my brain on Montana options. So all I have to say is, these non-resident changes and reductions in Idaho are going to have much more far reaching impacts then just Idaho! Other western states will be having more applicants due to all of this. Just like we have seen Washington go in the turbo-toilet these last 5-10 years and massive amount of Washington hunters are throwing in the towel and hitting the out of state road, Getting out of state tags on a regular basis will soon (already is) be a thing of the past. I have had the luxury of hunting every year in Montana and Wyoming, It will soon be a every other or even a every third year thing! Price hikes will be the next big thing we will see in all these highly sought after non-resident hunting states. Enjoy it while you can fellas!!! Your kids will never be able to do this when they are your age!
The best and most dedicated whitetail hunter that I personally know is archery hunting Washington as a non resident and killing better bucks in Washington than Idaho :yike: :panhandle whitetail hunting probably isn’t worth the price or hassle. I don’t know but it’s pretty interesting. We hunted all of our old “good” spots and found 3-4 mature bucks over a week of hard hunting. That’s not at all like it used to be and wouldn’t be worth the non resident price and hassle to me. I think some Mule deer areas definitely would still be worth it.
Post by: idaho guy on December 08, 2020, 07:26:26 AM
I don't hunt Idaho. I only hunt Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, but two guys that work at the same plant as I do have hunted for years in Idaho. These two guys showed up in my office this afternoon wanting to pick my brain on Montana options. So all I have to say is, these non-resident changes and reductions in Idaho are going to have much more far reaching impacts then just Idaho! Other western states will be having more applicants due to all of this. Just like we have seen Washington go in the turbo-toilet these last 5-10 years and massive amount of Washington hunters are throwing in the towel and hitting the out of state road, Getting out of state tags on a regular basis will soon (already is) be a thing of the past. I have had the luxury of hunting every year in Montana and Wyoming, It will soon be a every other or even a every third year thing! Price hikes will be the next big thing we will see in all these highly sought after non-resident hunting states. Enjoy it while you can fellas!!! Your kids will never be able to do this when they are your age!Yep I’m seriously looking at Montana this year for the first time because Idaho. The deer hunting isn’t good enough for the price at least where I’ve been the last few years... WA with just a few less people and a few more SxS
Deer population in Montana compared to Idaho is night and day. I don’t know the actual numbers but feels like 10-20 deer in Montana for every 1 deer in Idaho. I think when you do find that big mule deer it’s better trophy quality though. Whitetail Montana is way better in populations and size
Post by: Stein on December 08, 2020, 07:35:41 AM
My crystal ball says that it always stings when a state makes it harder and more expensive for less opportunity, but that sting doesn't last as long as the memories of past hunts and the dreams of what the future holds. At the end of the day, there are limited opportunities and we will stand in line however long is necessary and pay whatever they are asking for the chance to hunt. Sadly, some will be priced out, but they will be replaced at least 1:1 if not more by people that found or have a way to afford it.
A few years ago, MT did a huge price increase and people thought and talked about ID and now the pendulum is going the other direction to some degree, but ID is still a closer drive and lower cost so I wouldn't bet on a mass exodus.
Post by: Machias on December 08, 2020, 09:58:12 AM
I don't hunt Idaho. I only hunt Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, but two guys that work at the same plant as I do have hunted for years in Idaho. These two guys showed up in my office this afternoon wanting to pick my brain on Montana options. So all I have to say is, these non-resident changes and reductions in Idaho are going to have much more far reaching impacts then just Idaho! Other western states will be having more applicants due to all of this. Just like we have seen Washington go in the turbo-toilet these last 5-10 years and massive amount of Washington hunters are throwing in the towel and hitting the out of state road, Getting out of state tags on a regular basis will soon (already is) be a thing of the past. I have had the luxury of hunting every year in Montana and Wyoming, It will soon be a every other or even a every third year thing! Price hikes will be the next big thing we will see in all these highly sought after non-resident hunting states. Enjoy it while you can fellas!!! Your kids will never be able to do this when they are your age!
The best and most dedicated whitetail hunter that I personally know is archery hunting Washington as a non resident and killing better bucks in Washington than Idaho :yike: :panhandle whitetail hunting probably isn’t worth the price or hassle. I don’t know but it’s pretty interesting. We hunted all of our old “good” spots and found 3-4 mature bucks over a week of hard hunting. That’s not at all like it used to be and wouldn’t be worth the non resident price and hassle to me. I think some Mule deer areas definitely would still be worth it.
Had the same experience this year, very little daytime rut activity and only a couple of decent bucks on my trail cameras all fall.
Post by: idaho guy on December 08, 2020, 12:53:55 PM
I don't hunt Idaho. I only hunt Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, but two guys that work at the same plant as I do have hunted for years in Idaho. These two guys showed up in my office this afternoon wanting to pick my brain on Montana options. So all I have to say is, these non-resident changes and reductions in Idaho are going to have much more far reaching impacts then just Idaho! Other western states will be having more applicants due to all of this. Just like we have seen Washington go in the turbo-toilet these last 5-10 years and massive amount of Washington hunters are throwing in the towel and hitting the out of state road, Getting out of state tags on a regular basis will soon (already is) be a thing of the past. I have had the luxury of hunting every year in Montana and Wyoming, It will soon be a every other or even a every third year thing! Price hikes will be the next big thing we will see in all these highly sought after non-resident hunting states. Enjoy it while you can fellas!!! Your kids will never be able to do this when they are your age!
The best and most dedicated whitetail hunter that I personally know is archery hunting Washington as a non resident and killing better bucks in Washington than Idaho :yike: :panhandle whitetail hunting probably isn’t worth the price or hassle. I don’t know but it’s pretty interesting. We hunted all of our old “good” spots and found 3-4 mature bucks over a week of hard hunting. That’s not at all like it used to be and wouldn’t be worth the non resident price and hassle to me. I think some Mule deer areas definitely would still be worth it.
Had the same experience this year, very little daytime rut activity and only a couple of decent bucks on my trail cameras all fall.
dang! that blows my 2021 plan b out of the water. I was thinking of heading your way next year :chuckle: It was a strange year for sure i have hunted unit 2 and 3 almost 30 years and I dont know that i will ever hunt 2 for deer again.3 is pretty big but is marginal on how much time I will spend there. Its like it fell off a cliff but we did get locked out of some juicy timber propertys this year due to new land purchases so that was a factor too.
On a bright note it has led to me doing a lot more trapping this fall! :tup:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 15, 2021, 12:20:57 PM
1/3 less NR so will be less crowded which was their goal but less $ means ???
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 15, 2021, 12:22:18 PM
Looks like almost everything sold out for NR elk - only 643 tags left in zones. But the overall NR quota still has 5019 tags so looks like IDAHO is going to sell 4,376 FEWER NR Elk tags under this new system the way I see it ?
1/3 less NR so will be less crowded which was their goal but less $ means ???
Can they still be bought as second tags by residents?
Post by: idahohuntr on January 15, 2021, 01:06:46 PM
Looks like almost everything sold out for NR elk - only 643 tags left in zones. But the overall NR quota still has 5019 tags so looks like IDAHO is going to sell 4,376 FEWER NR Elk tags under this new system the way I see it ?I doubt Idaho will see less $...they raised prices substantially to offset fewer tags. Between second tag options for residents, higher NR fees on tags and stamps, higher controlled app fees...I don't see them having less money than previous years...probably more.
1/3 less NR so will be less crowded which was their goal but less $ means ???
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2021, 02:02:33 PM
Looks like almost everything sold out for NR elk - only 643 tags left in zones. But the overall NR quota still has 5019 tags so looks like IDAHO is going to sell 4,376 FEWER NR Elk tags under this new system the way I see it ?I doubt Idaho will see less $...they raised prices substantially to offset fewer tags. Between second tag options for residents, higher NR fees on tags and stamps, higher controlled app fees...I don't see them having less money than previous years...probably more.
1/3 less NR so will be less crowded which was their goal but less $ means ???
If those non res tags get sold to residents as second tags, this whole charade won't have done anything to ease crowding. It will just make it more of a resident problem, (crowding). And will probably make things worse. Residents will have local knowledge and more time to scout ahead of season and be more likely to be on the elk right off the get go.
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 15, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2021, 02:27:37 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on January 15, 2021, 02:43:27 PM
I do have a question on deer tags. Take the panhandle area.
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
The rut.
Post by: Naches Sportsman on January 15, 2021, 02:46:21 PM
I do have a question on deer tags. Take the panhandle area.
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
On the general tag in most areas, you have to hunt the general season and do not get to hunt the white tail rut.
White tail only tag allows you to hunt oct 10th-Nov 20th or Dec 1 with a rifle.
I imagine a pretty big citation if caught hunting with a general tag in November during a white tail only season.... also, non resident general tags only good for particular units now.
Post by: grundy53 on January 15, 2021, 02:47:47 PM
Don't the whitetail tags have a later season, in November?Yes. In most units
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Post by: luvmystang67 on January 15, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
Don't the whitetail tags have a later season, in November?Yes. In most units
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Ah, I'm the dumb one.
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 15, 2021, 02:53:16 PM
Don't the whitetail tags have a later season, in November?Yes. In most units
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Ah, I'm the dumb one.
Dumb is a little harsh... just say your not thinking clearly because your overwhelmed with the joy of moving to Idaho and blinded by the freedom's that you experience on a day to day basis.
Post by: Limhangerslayer on January 15, 2021, 03:19:57 PM
I do have a question on deer tags. Take the panhandle area.you’re not missing anything, people that buy a whitetail tag first in the panhandle are making a dumb move. But not as dumb as the people that bought regular deer tags in units like 14 and 18. They handicapped themselves to only hunting till the 3rd of November. My guess is that they are new to the Idaho game and didn’t know any better.
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
Post by: bearpaw on January 15, 2021, 03:30:14 PM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on January 15, 2021, 03:40:48 PM
I do have a question on deer tags. Take the panhandle area.you’re not missing anything, people that buy a whitetail tag first in the panhandle are making a dumb move. But not as dumb as the people that bought regular deer tags in units like 14 and 18. They handicapped themselves to only hunting till the 3rd of November. My guess is that they are new to the Idaho game and didn’t know any better.
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
Sometimes you wonder how many people who bought those 14 and 18 tags realize they cannot hunt mule deer with that tag? Or maybe it's the people who hunt the private property buying those tags.
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 15, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
Don't the whitetail tags have a later season, in November?Yes. In most units
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Ah, I'm the dumb one.
Dumb is a little harsh... just say your not thinking clearly because your overwhelmed with the joy of moving to Idaho and blinded by the freedom's that you experience on a day to day basis.
I think that must be it.
Post by: tlake on January 15, 2021, 04:34:25 PM
"
My guess is a lot of these tags will sell in the draws for special hunts for non residents.
Post by: bearpaw on January 15, 2021, 11:37:18 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 15, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
They didn't change the total number of tags to non-residents, the new system just put non-resident limits on units to prevent non-resident crowding.
But the total of the unit limits is 4490 less than the overal limit which is now meaningless except for surplus tag sales to residents . ????
Post by: bearpaw on January 15, 2021, 11:57:53 PM
How about the DAV quota?
How about controlled hunt tags?
Seems like there is another quota I'm missing, but can't remember.
(When you draw a CH tag and turn in a tag you already have it gets added back to the available tags. If you book with an outfitter he will likely ask you to swap tags so he gets credit for using his allocation, then your tag gets swapped for an outfitter tag and the old tag gets added to the available tags to the public.)
Post by: bearpaw on January 16, 2021, 12:07:25 AM
Another thing I forgot to mention, nonresident youth tags are unlimited and not even a part of the non-resident quota, most people do not know that. Additionally, Youth deer tags are also still valid for any general deer unit. If an elk zone or deer unit is sold out you can still buy youth tags for that zone or unit.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 16, 2021, 07:05:27 AM
With 4000 + tags available as leftover maybe you coukd get a second tag in a different area but they probably won’t knowingly allow that
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 16, 2021, 07:50:06 AM
I forget exactly how many outfitters get, but if they are not used by the end of July the public gets the rest of them.
Another thing I forgot to mention, nonresident youth tags are unlimited and not even a part of the non-resident quota, most people do not know that. Additionally, Youth deer tags are also still valid for any general deer unit. If an elk zone or deer unit is sold out you can still buy youth tags for that zone or unit.
Thanks for the youth info. Did not know that. :tup:
Post by: buglebrush on January 16, 2021, 08:32:47 AM
More than anything this has caused, I believe poaching will go sky high in Idaho! Idaho is already a poacher friendly state, now by limiting tags, it will cause even more to become trigger happy without a tag. Just because you limit the amount of tags doesn’t mean you won’t limit the amount of animals killed.
I find it hard to believe this. It implies that a high percentage of hunters would poach given the opportunity. Having grown up in a large hunting community, there's just a tiny amount of people who will poach and they will poach regardless of what the game department is doing.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 16, 2021, 09:59:51 AM
I do have a question on deer tags. Take the panhandle area.you’re not missing anything, people that buy a whitetail tag first in the panhandle are making a dumb move. But not as dumb as the people that bought regular deer tags in units like 14 and 18. They handicapped themselves to only hunting till the 3rd of November. My guess is that they are new to the Idaho game and didn’t know any better.
Who would voluntarily buy a whitetail tag for the panhandle, when they can shoot either a mule deer or a whitetail with the regular tag, assuming there is quota available for both? Seems a little odd to me.
There are even tags in the mountains where both species more readily coexist, where there are still any deer tags available, but still some people have selected the whitetail tags.
Am I missing something or are people just dumb?
Sometimes you wonder how many people who bought those 14 and 18 tags realize they cannot hunt mule deer with that tag? Or maybe it's the people who hunt the private property buying those tags.
It's possible that guys wanted a deer tag to go along with an elk tag so if they saw a whitetail while elk hunting they could shoot it. In 14 at least, whitetail tags are sold out so a regular tag might have been their only choice. If your hunting trip is planned for Oct 10 - Oct 24 around the modern rifle season for elk, and your deer tag is just for the chance of taking a deer on the same hunt, a regular tag is as good as a whitetail tag, especially now that your deer tag is only good for one unit. Either tag will cover you during modern elk season, if you are hunting elk in 14.
Before this year, you might have gotten a reg tag with the idea you'd take a whitetail if you got the chance during elk season in 14, then if you didn't you could switch units and hunt mulies someplace where it was legal. For example, when I elk hunted in 14, I had a whitetail tag, but a couple buddies had regular tags. Once elk season ended, we spent a few days deer hunting in 19A so they could look for mulies. Its right next door and we stayed in the same camp while we did that. Now that you are confined to one unit for deer, that option isn't available.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 19, 2021, 05:20:06 PM
I forget exactly how many outfitters get, but if they are not used by the end of July the public gets the rest of them.
Another thing I forgot to mention, nonresident youth tags are unlimited and not even a part of the non-resident quota, most people do not know that. Additionally, Youth deer tags are also still valid for any general deer unit. If an elk zone or deer unit is sold out you can still buy youth tags for that zone or unit.
Thanks for the youth info. Did not know that. :tup:
I didn't either. Might be the year to get Little Pathfinder out of school for a couple of days... He has way better luck than me... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on January 19, 2021, 08:02:42 PM
Idaho Non Resident Tag Quota page is saying its sold out totals include Guide tags.
With 4000 + tags available as leftover maybe you coukd get a second tag in a different area but they probably won’t knowingly allow that
I can tell you for certain that this year the individual quotas for each outfitter have not even been figured out yet, they are not even available to sell yet. You can't buy second deer or elk tags until Aug 1, even though I doubt any tags will remain at that time, any returned tags after Aug 1 could be purchased as a second tag the way I understand it.
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 10, 2021, 06:52:09 AM
Anyone that was putting it off is out of luck until outfitter/ returned tags go up for sale.
And I now have one guy in our group that just got designated packer duties. :bash: :chuckle:
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 10, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Looks like Idaho just sold out of non rez deer tags.
Anyone that was putting it off is out of luck until outfitter/ returned tags go up for sale.
And I now have one guy in our group that just got designated packer duties. :bash: :chuckle:
He could probably still get a whitetail tag... or certain elk tags
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 10, 2021, 08:36:10 AM
Looks like Idaho just sold out of non rez deer tags.
Anyone that was putting it off is out of luck until outfitter/ returned tags go up for sale.
And I now have one guy in our group that just got designated packer duties. :bash: :chuckle:
He could probably still get a whitetail tag... or certain elk tags
Online sales have deer tags locked out.
He called sales this morning and was told all deer sold out over the weekend.
He just got a call back and was told some had been released so he got a whitetail tag for our unit. Who knows what's going on...but he's no longer just camp cookie :chuckle:
Post by: jstone on March 10, 2021, 08:44:08 AM
This is kind of a cluster
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 10, 2021, 09:00:14 AM
Looks like Idaho just sold out of non rez deer tags.
Anyone that was putting it off is out of luck until outfitter/ returned tags go up for sale.
And I now have one guy in our group that just got designated packer duties. :bash: :chuckle:
He could probably still get a whitetail tag... or certain elk tags
Online sales have deer tags locked out.
He called sales this morning and was told all deer sold out over the weekend.
He just got a call back and was told some had been released so he got a whitetail tag for our unit. Who knows what's going on...but he's no longer just camp cookie :chuckle:
Yep still a handful of WT tags and a couple elk tags left.. but fairly slim pickins
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 10, 2021, 10:24:51 AM
So once in a while they will have tags that they will put back in the pot??not at all. People return tags so they reissue them. Not sure how they are doing it this year but previous years they would release returned tags every Thursday morning.
This is kind of a cluster
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 10, 2021, 10:32:07 AM
They have 2,901 non resident elk tags left in their quota, however all of their elk tag zones by type, except 3 are sold out. Of the 3 areas with remaining elk tags, there are only a total of 80 tags remaining. This means that while they have 2,821 remaining in their state wide non resident elk quota, there are no units that can accept that quota due to unit-specific caps. In past years the outfitter allocation has been a possible 2400 elk tags, leaving 421 unavailable to either outfitters and non residents. Either way, in most years they don't sell out the outfitter tags and put them on the market for non-residents to buy after a certain date.
I have no idea how they're going to handle that with these zones already sold out.
Maybe their goal is to simply sell those to residents at non-resident prices, which becomes available after I think August 1 every year for residents if non-residents don't buy them all as second elk tags. If so, that is just a real tease... they should just make a different category of tag. What a pain in the butt though.
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 10, 2021, 11:40:48 AM
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Post by: idaho guy on March 10, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 10, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
I'm ALL about government accountability. Heck, this doesn't even apply to me anymore!
Still this whole 10-5+2 =11 thing just doesn't quite work in my small brain.
My personal opinion is they've been intentionally vague about it and intend to sell remaining out of state permits as second tags to residents. We'll see.
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 10, 2021, 06:23:40 PM
They did update the system today to reflect general deer as sold out...
Post by: idaho guy on March 10, 2021, 08:21:59 PM
I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
I'm ALL about government accountability. Heck, this doesn't even apply to me anymore!
Still this whole 10-5+2 =11 thing just doesn't quite work in my small brain.
My personal opinion is they've been intentionally vague about it and intend to sell remaining out of state permits as second tags to residents. We'll see.
👍 no problem I realize your are now an Idaho resident. I was making a joke because everyone wants to move here because of how things are here then they immediately want to change things and hold people “accountable”. I believe you are missing something and I am 99.9 percent positive they aren’t holding tags back for second tags for residents and they have the math correct for the exact numbers of tags and units. Maybe the websites got something screwed up temporarily but I’m pretty sure they understand the tag totals and how that’s distributed among units. If I am wrong then you are correct that’s a major screw up and you should hold them accountable. Everyone should. Post up there response when you get it
Post by: Jimmy33 on March 11, 2021, 06:33:00 AM
I agree...i dont think there is anything fishy going on...the tags just went fast. Idaho does a good job of listening to hunter ideas, even non-residents, and incorporating them. I think they are pretty transparent for a government agency.I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
I'm ALL about government accountability. Heck, this doesn't even apply to me anymore!
Still this whole 10-5+2 =11 thing just doesn't quite work in my small brain.
My personal opinion is they've been intentionally vague about it and intend to sell remaining out of state permits as second tags to residents. We'll see.
👍 no problem I realize your are now an Idaho resident. I was making a joke because everyone wants to move here because of how things are here then they immediately want to change things and hold people “accountable”. I believe you are missing something and I am 99.9 percent positive they aren’t holding tags back for second tags for residents and they have the math correct for the exact numbers of tags and units. Maybe the websites got something screwed up temporarily but I’m pretty sure they understand the tag totals and how that’s distributed among units. If I am wrong then you are correct that’s a major screw up and you should hold them accountable. Everyone should. Post up there response when you get it
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Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
I'm ALL about government accountability. Heck, this doesn't even apply to me anymore!
Still this whole 10-5+2 =11 thing just doesn't quite work in my small brain.
My personal opinion is they've been intentionally vague about it and intend to sell remaining out of state permits as second tags to residents. We'll see.
One more thing. You have been an Idaho resident for months it’s about time you started showing Idaho how to run things. Tell them how you always did things in Washington they love that kind of direction :chuckle: :chuckle: or you could just enjoy your new freedoms that your new address provided
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 11, 2021, 09:24:21 AM
I just wrote a letter to IDFG, just cause this makes no sense.
Unit by Unit quotas add up to 11,724, which if we look at their website, all but 80 are claimed. Meaning that 11,644 have already been allocated. Their top line figure says they have 2,901 tags available out of 12,815 possible tags, indicating that only 9,914 tags have actually been claimed, a discrepancy of 1,730 tags.
Not only is it unclear how the extra tags will be made available, but is also unclear how they have 2,901 remaining if 11,644/12,815 are already claimed.
Oof, someone needs an accountant.
Great another out of stater just changed his address and will show Idaho a thing or two about how to run things in this state!! :chuckle: :chuckle: Just kidding I'm about 99.9% sure it all adds up but I didn't even look at it. Probably missing something in the total like outfitter allocation, or other tags not listed. if not I agree its a major screw up
I'm ALL about government accountability. Heck, this doesn't even apply to me anymore!
Still this whole 10-5+2 =11 thing just doesn't quite work in my small brain.
My personal opinion is they've been intentionally vague about it and intend to sell remaining out of state permits as second tags to residents. We'll see.
One more thing. You have been an Idaho resident for months it’s about time you started showing Idaho how to run things. Tell them how you always did things in Washington they love that kind of direction :chuckle: :chuckle: or you could just enjoy your new freedoms that your new address provided
Idaho can math too.
Post by: 7mmfan on March 11, 2021, 09:36:38 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 11, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
We know the NR TOTAL cap is 12,815 as it has always been.
We know that the total sum of the available zone permits is 11,724 and we know that currently all but 80 of those are taken from the zone breakdown here: https://idfg.idaho.gov/tag/quotas/nonresident/elk
That means AT LEAST 11,644 tags have been issued to NR if those zones are sold out. That would imply that there are 1,171 remaining, but that same website says there are over 2,900 remaining.
So, even if we ignore that there aren't enough zone spaces available to meet the 12,815 (which could be due to outfitter tags, magic unlimited zones or whatever), the current math absolutely does not stack up.
Perhaps its just an update cycle issue, but the numbers they have shared cannot possibly be correct with the definitions they have given.
I'm not saying there's any wrongdoing here, but the math doesn't work as described and I wish they'd be about 1000x more transparent with the data they're sharing. Perhaps they reserved space in each zone for outfitters and removed that from the total at the start, I have no idea, but they should be clear if that is what they did.
I challenge any person to explain how their current quota numbers tie... shouldn't we be able to tie them? If I did my taxes like this the IRS would be all over me.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 11, 2021, 11:40:32 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 11, 2021, 01:11:36 PM
Maybe their goal is to simply sell those to residents at non-resident prices, which becomes available after I think August 1 every year for residents if non-residents don't buy them all as second elk tags. If so, that is just a real tease... they should just make a different category of tag. What a pain in the butt though.
Those non res tags can only be used in one unit and each unit is capped. So if all the units' quotas have been reached, A resident shouldn't be able to hunt them with a non res tag either. If a resident is allowed to shoot two deer in a unit with a resident and a non resident tag, tell me how this reduces pressure any more than if another non resident hunter used that tag in the same unit? I could see a court challenge if they allowed that.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 01:39:49 PM
If only we had the technology to call idaho fish and game and ask them instead of just guessing and speculating....oh wait :chuckle:
:yeah:
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 11, 2021, 01:43:56 PM
When they did the zone limits its was based on limiting percent of non-res in per unit, they didn't take the step of allocating portions of overall nr tags so they won't use all the overall quota until second tag or second chance draw. They will likely tweak it next year so total of all units equals overall quota.
Sure, I buy this, but in their press release they give you a target of a reduction in "over 600 elk tags sold to nonresidents in general elk hunts based on current participation rates,".
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fg-commission-approves-changes-nonresident-participation-general-season-deer-and-elk-hunts
12,815 previous total - 11,724 total zone caps = 1,091 tags reduced.
So, sure, they're not technically wrong, but they probably should've said "over 1,000 elk tags" if they were trying to portray it accurately. Or if they want to talk general elk hunts and controlled elk hunts separately, they could've said "over 1,000 elk tags total, with 600 in general units and 400 in controlled units"
Its not like they didn't know... they set the quotas and made the rules. They knew what the specific number was in general units, but left it vague.
Why did they choose to be unspecific?
If I could bet my elk tag, I would bet my tag on the idea that they're going to make all of the "extra" NR quota available to residents at the NR price.
Also, I fail to understand why me being bothered by this bothers people so much? I did write them, I'm just not willing to sit in their phone tree. There are specific numbers here and they're either dumb or being intentionally vague about it, neither is really acceptable.
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 01:50:13 PM
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 01:53:39 PM
Non resident dav tags don’t count against the number of tags issued in limited elk zones. I finally looked for 1 minute at the non res tags on the website. That accounts for at least some maybe most ? of the differences
I looked it’s only 300 but that’s part of your math problem
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2021, 02:06:14 PM
I am highly doubting that they are reserving non resident tags for residents. They make more money selling them to non residents
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2021, 02:14:59 PM
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 02:59:43 PM
When they did the zone limits its was based on limiting percent of non-res in per unit, they didn't take the step of allocating portions of overall nr tags so they won't use all the overall quota until second tag or second chance draw. They will likely tweak it next year so total of all units equals overall quota.
Sure, I buy this, but in their press release they give you a target of a reduction in "over 600 elk tags sold to nonresidents in general elk hunts based on current participation rates,".
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fg-commission-approves-changes-nonresident-participation-general-season-deer-and-elk-hunts
12,815 previous total - 11,724 total zone caps = 1,091 tags reduced.
So, sure, they're not technically wrong, but they probably should've said "over 1,000 elk tags" if they were trying to portray it accurately. Or if they want to talk general elk hunts and controlled elk hunts separately, they could've said "over 1,000 elk tags total, with 600 in general units and 400 in controlled units"
Its not like they didn't know... they set the quotas and made the rules. They knew what the specific number was in general units, but left it vague.
Why did they choose to be unspecific?
If I could bet my elk tag, I would bet my tag on the idea that they're going to make all of the "extra" NR quota available to residents at the NR price.
Also, I fail to understand why me being bothered by this bothers people so much? I did write them, I'm just not willing to sit in their phone tree. There are specific numbers here and they're either dumb or being intentionally vague about it, neither is really acceptable.
The death of Idaho and Montana in my opinion will be people moving in from other states and immediately deciding those state “aren’t doing things right”. I have no problem with people moving wherever they want. You made some pretty good posts about how much you loved Idaho freely buying guns a taking a wolf trapping class. Now you are accusing the same fish and game who has allowed us to hunt and trap wolves run etc etc of some conspiracy to save non resident tags to sell to residents. That move to sell extra tags to residents was super controversial when they originally did it.A lot of residents were against it. It was only because they weren’t selling out post wolves and pre wolf hunting and trapping seasons. WHY? Why are you doing all this speculation? What is the point? It’s pretty easy to call fish and game or even just go walk in there. It took me 1 minute to find 300 tags on the idfg site that they were being “vague “ about. I don’t have time to research it anymore and it doesn’t effect me or you. If it took 1 minute to find 300 it probably be easy to find them all. I’m not saying your intention is to immediately change things but many people move here because they claim to love it and immediately get busy “fixing” things. I don’t know you so hopefully it’s not your attitude but I don’t understand why you have spent this much time imagining a conspiracy or accusing them of not understanding math. I picked up a replacement lion tag last week no line no wait had my tag in 10 minutes. Go in there and ask them.
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 03:00:32 PM
Or they all graduated from U of I and can't add or subtract :chuckle:
We might have a winner 😂
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 11, 2021, 03:18:59 PM
[/quote]
The death of Idaho and Montana in my opinion will be people moving in from other states and immediately deciding those state “aren’t doing things right”. I have no problem with people moving wherever they want. You made some pretty good posts about how much you loved Idaho freely buying guns a taking a wolf trapping class. Now you are accusing the same fish and game who has allowed us to hunt and trap wolves run etc etc of some conspiracy to save non resident tags to sell to residents. That move to sell extra tags to residents was super controversial when they originally did it.A lot of residents were against it. It was only because they weren’t selling out post wolves and pre wolf hunting and trapping seasons. WHY? Why are you doing all this speculation? What is the point? It’s pretty easy to call fish and game or even just go walk in there. It took me 1 minute to find 300 tags on the idfg site that they were being “vague “ about. I don’t have time to research it anymore and it doesn’t effect me or you. If it took 1 minute to find 300 it probably be easy to find them all. I’m not saying your intention is to immediately change things but many people move here because they claim to love it and immediately get busy “fixing” things. I don’t know you so hopefully it’s not your attitude but I don’t understand why you have spent this much time imagining a conspiracy or accusing them of not understanding math. I picked up a replacement lion tag last week no line no wait had my tag in 10 minutes. Go in there and ask them.
[/quote]
If you're worried about me changing Idaho, you've got a rude awakening coming from everyone else. I'm not even asking for change, I just get a weird twitch when math doesn't work.
The magic 300 you've found... where does that fit? It hasn't solved anything...
Is it included in the 12,815 total? Does that mean there are 13,115, 12,815 or 12,515 for other NR?
Are those 300 included in the 11,724 zone quota or not?
Whatever conclusion you've drawn from "finding the missing 300" doesn't really answer any question I have posed as there's no data for which portion it applies to.
I'm not alleging some massive conspiracy, just wondering what they're doing and what all these bizarre numbers mean. I'm not even trying to change anything, I just want to know what the h*ll they're trying to tell us with all these numbers that don't tie. If you're this upset about me asking questions about why math doesn't add, the Dems who are pushing real change are going to give you a heart attack.
I'm not trying to make you an enemy, but you should probably check yourself if you think I'm the one you have to worry about.
Post by: idaho guy on March 11, 2021, 03:41:10 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2021, 03:46:13 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 12, 2021, 12:43:37 PM
The capped zones create an effective cap below the NR elk quota. There are essentially two IDFG rules here, total NR tags for say elk cannot exceed 12,815 statewide, but they are also limited by elk zone. The summed elk zones equal 11,724, effectively indicating that the difference in tags (1,091) will not (double checking on this) be sold.
With 11,724 being the new zone caps, 300 of these are DAV tags and 2,800 are outfitter tags. Also, there's no official cap on youth tags, so they're also removed from the 11,724 at an unknown number. This indicates that there are actually 8,624 or fewer tags made available to standard NR OTC adults. It will be lessened by however many youth bought tags before the area quotas expired.
I'm getting a little further clarification on what happens for returned outfitter tags, and if filling of all units means that youth is effectively capped. My follow ups have to do with:
1) Are outfitter tags only offered for the units they were originally offered for (I speculate so)?
2) Are youth tags over if the remaining 80 tags in quota areas are sold (I also think so)?
3) Does this mean that 1,091 licenses will not be sold at all in 2021 (sounds like it)?
Will come back when I have more... interesting way of doing things. Bet you all didn't know you were competing with youths for those units! It'll be interesting to see how this evolves over the next several years.
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 17, 2021, 12:47:06 PM
1) I does not seem like they know exactly how they're going to handle leftover licenses yet, but they're tending toward maintaining all caps and limits, even if they end up offering them to sale to residents. Any unsold tags as of 8/1 will likely be offered to residents at the NR price and at the NR unit quotas.
2) There's a language difference between CAPS and LIMITS. Zones like Lolo are Capped, zones like Panhandle are Limited. Capped zones include outfitter tags, DAV tags and youth tags in their Cap total capacity (meaning those tag types reduce standard adult NR tags in those areas). Limited zones (the new ones for 2021) do include outfitter tags, but do not include DAV and Youth tags. In the new limited zones, DAV and Youth tags do not reduce the standard adult NR tags, but outfitter tags do
3) It sounds like outfitter tags that are returned will be reoffered in the areas they were originally available to outfitters in, so there will effectively be no general elk tags available when returned tags come back.
4) To reiterate from my previous post, the total NR tags sold have been cut quite a bit and outfitter tags have been increased by 400 for elk. Total NR cuts are closer to 10% than 5%.
Now you know.
Post by: pd on March 17, 2021, 06:36:09 PM
(1) You guys need to get along. From what I can tell, you (you all, plural 2nd person) are stand up folk, and should be friends, not adversaries.
(2) The availability (potential) for unused outfitter tags to non-residents in 2021 is confusing. Make it simple for me, please. Will this happen in August like in normal years? yes/no
Post by: jjhunter on March 17, 2021, 07:37:33 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 17, 2021, 11:23:51 PM
A couple of comments.
(1) You guys need to get along. From what I can tell, you (you all, plural 2nd person) are stand up folk, and should be friends, not adversaries.
(2) The availability (potential) for unused outfitter tags to non-residents in 2021 is confusing. Make it simple for me, please. Will this happen in August like in normal years? yes/no
Sounds like this should happen (returned tag sale), but due to the new limits you'll only get an opportunity to buy returned outfitter tags in the zone that the outfitter had them for. In the past, there were always some general units and general tags available, so you had some choices. Now, if you want a Lolo tag, but only a panhandle outfitter returns tags, you'll only have panhandle as an option. Sounds like they haven't COMPLETELY ironed that out yet, but thats the direction.
Post by: nwmein199 on March 23, 2021, 11:38:25 AM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags
Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.
Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.
The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 23, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.:yeah:
https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags
Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.
Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.
The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.
And the biggest impact will be to NR Deer tag availability. Especially in the higher demand units where guides will take an even larger share.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 23, 2021, 12:27:40 PM
Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.Done! You should start a new thread with this link and a title to let people know. Thanks
https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags
Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.
Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.
The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on March 23, 2021, 12:29:05 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on March 23, 2021, 03:18:44 PM
Going to be less non-resident tags available in the future unless you pay up for a guide. Get your opinion in now.Done! You should start a new thread with this link and a title to let people know. Thanks
https://idfg.idaho.gov/about/rules/potential-change-outfitter-set-aside-rule-general-hunt-elk-and-deer-tags
Takes 2 seconds to check YES or NO.
Currently, the number of general hunt elk tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters to sell to their clients is 2,800 (A and B tags combined), which is 21.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt elk tags. The number of general deer tags set-aside for allocation to outfitters for their clients is 1,985 (regular and white-tailed tags combined), which 12.8% of the nonresident quota for general hunt deer tags.
The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association has petitioned the Fish and Game Commission to adopt a rule to set aside the statutory maximum of 25% of the nonresident general hunt elk tags and 25% of the nonresident general hunt deer tags as the new annual limits for allocation to outfitters to use for their clients.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,258761.0.html
Post by: luvmystang67 on August 03, 2021, 04:50:16 PM
Idaho just announced the return of all unsold outfitter tags and other returned tags. If you go back in this thread, with the new zone limit rules that IDFG put in place for NR elk hunters this year, they were going to sell fewer total elk tags than they have in previous years.
To Recap, in the last several years IDFG has sold its legally mandated cap of 12,815 elk tags for NR either as NR tags or second tags to both NR and R.
This year, if you go down all the capped zones and limited zones, they had about 12,000 tags available, meaning they'd come up shy of their typical allocation.
Here we at what is likely the final returned tag sale before the season starts, and this seems to be coming to pass.
They've posted 2,132 NR elk tags for sale, but the limits and caps add up to 1,316 tags for sale. The limited (not "capped" which apply to both NR and R) zones only apply to NR hunters. Hypothetically, if only NR hunters went to buy returned tags, IDFG would still have 816 tags remaining that could not be purchased by NR hunters. However, these zone limits do NOT apply to resident hunters.
Effectively, IDFG has set aside 816 tags for NR second tags, which cannot necessarily be used in "capped" zones, but can be used anywhere else that is not limited for residents. They really haven't messaged this well.
The next question is... since I'm a resident and have my own pool of tags, should I buy a second one?
:stirthepot:
Post by: bearpaw on August 03, 2021, 06:35:00 PM
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
Post by: luvmystang67 on August 04, 2021, 08:25:44 AM
I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on August 04, 2021, 10:40:47 AM
Not to resurface old threads... but I think its important that everything a government does be crystal clear. In the game of Idaho NR elk tags, it is not.Kim
Idaho just announced the return of all unsold outfitter tags and other returned tags. If you go back in this thread, with the new zone limit rules that IDFG put in place for NR elk hunters this year, they were going to sell fewer total elk tags than they have in previous years.
To Recap, in the last several years IDFG has sold its legally mandated cap of 12,815 elk tags for NR either as NR tags or second tags to both NR and R.
This year, if you go down all the capped zones and limited zones, they had about 12,000 tags available, meaning they'd come up shy of their typical allocation.
Here we at what is likely the final returned tag sale before the season starts, and this seems to be coming to pass.
They've posted 2,132 NR elk tags for sale, but the limits and caps add up to 1,316 tags for sale. The limited (not "capped" which apply to both NR and R) zones only apply to NR hunters. Hypothetically, if only NR hunters went to buy returned tags, IDFG would still have 816 tags remaining that could not be purchased by NR hunters. However, these zone limits do NOT apply to resident hunters.
Effectively, IDFG has set aside 816 tags for NR second tags, which cannot necessarily be used in "capped" zones, but can be used anywhere else that is not limited for residents. They really haven't messaged this well.
The next question is... since I'm a resident and have my own pool of tags, should I buy a second one?
:stirthepot:
Quote from: luvmystang67 link=topic=255127.msg3567217#msg3567217
date=1628034616
date=1628034616
Not to resurface old threads... but I think its important that everything a government does be crystal clear. In the game of Idaho NR elk tags, it is not.
Idaho just announced the return of all unsold outfitter tags and other returned tags. If you go back in this thread, with the new zone limit rules that IDFG put in place for NR elk hunters this year, they were going to sell fewer total elk tags than they have in previous years.
To Recap, in the last several years IDFG has sold its legally mandated cap of 12,815 elk tags for NR either as NR tags or second tags to both NR and R.
This year, if you go down all the capped zones and limited zones, they had about 12,000 tags available, meaning they'd come up shy of their typical allocation.
Here we at what is likely the final returned tag sale before the season starts, and this seems to be coming to pass.
They've posted 2,132 NR elk tags for sale, but the limits and caps add up to 1,316 tags for sale. The limited (not "capped" which apply to both NR and R) zones only apply to NR hunters. Hypothetically, if only NR hunters went to buy returned tags, IDFG would still have 816 tags remaining that could not be purchased by NR hunters. However, these zone limits do NOT apply to resident hunters.
Effectively, IDFG has set aside 816 tags for NR second tags, which cannot necessarily be used in "capped" zones, but can be used anywhere else that is not limited for residents. They really haven't messaged this well.
The next question is... since I'm a resident and have my own pool of tags, should I buy a second one?
:stirthepot:
Oh I would! No such thing as to much elk meat! :tup:
Post by: idaho guy on August 04, 2021, 06:52:39 PM
I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
Idfg “At this time it is our understanding that residents will be subject to the same limitations as NR” that means unit caps. There shouldn’t be any special pool of leftovers because residents would be subject to same limits as nr with non resident tags. With resident tags meaning 1st tags we have no unit restrictions just zones. With a second purchase of a non resident tag as a resident we are subject to the same restrictions as the non resident. (Unit caps)Thanks for fixing Idaho 👍 I hope it was good use of your time.
Post by: idaho guy on August 04, 2021, 07:24:27 PM
I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
I ended that last post poorly, It’s nothing against you but you are wrong. The e mail you copied from idfg directly said we (residents)buying 2nd tags WILL be subject to the same exact restrictions (unit caps)as non resident. I don’t understand why you expended quite a bit of energy on it. They also said “at this time “ so if it changes maybe it’s our lucky year👍 last time I purchased 2 elk tags was 2017 and I got a 6 by 6 and a 6 by 10 so it’s definitely worth it, if you have the time and extra funds. I posted them on here in elk section 2017. I had a number of friends get second non resident elk tags last year and Idaho was sold out early. It’s always possible to get a leftover second tag but It’s not worth it to me anymore. Unless, I guess, if they went through all that effort to get us a “special “ pool 😂 There isn’t one
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on August 04, 2021, 07:42:21 PM
Actually it looks like they did set some aside for residents, I believe the email he shared was from earlier in the year, if you look now it does say that residents are not restricted to the single units for deer tags or any of the NR zone caps for elk if we purchase as 2nd tags. Also residents that are price locked still pay the 2020 NR tag fees for 2nd tags vs 2021I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
I ended that last post poorly, It’s nothing against you but you are wrong. The e mail you copied from idfg directly said we (residents)buying 2nd tags WILL be subject to the same exact restrictions (unit caps)as non resident. I don’t understand why you expended quite a bit of energy on it. They also said “at this time “ so if it changes maybe it’s our lucky yearlast time I purchased 2 elk tags was 2017 and I got a 6 by 6 and a 6 by 10 so it’s definitely worth it, if you have the time and extra funds. I posted them on here in elk section 2017. I had a number of friends get second non resident elk tags last year and Idaho was sold out early. It’s always possible to get a leftover second tag but It’s not worth it to me anymore. Unless, I guess, if they went through all that effort to get us a “special “ pool
There isn’t one
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: idaho guy on August 04, 2021, 07:47:59 PM
Actually it looks like they did set some aside for residents, I believe the email he shared was from earlier in the year, if you look now it does say that residents are not restricted to the single units for deer tags or any of the NR zone caps for elk if we purchase as 2nd tags. Also residents that are price locked still pay the 2020 NR tag fees for 2nd tags vs 2021I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
I ended that last post poorly, It’s nothing against you but you are wrong. The e mail you copied from idfg directly said we (residents)buying 2nd tags WILL be subject to the same exact restrictions (unit caps)as non resident. I don’t understand why you expended quite a bit of energy on it. They also said “at this time “ so if it changes maybe it’s our lucky year
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Post by: idaho guy on August 04, 2021, 08:12:12 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 04, 2021, 09:33:57 PM
I’m not trying to bust your chops about anything, but several of your statements are incorrect and not precise. For example IDFG did not say they were selling fewer non-resident tags, what they stated is to the effect that the same number of tags will be sold, but they were spreading out the hunting pressure across all zones by capping each zone so that Hunting pressure was reduced in zones that were being over crowded by nonresidents. There are some other errors, it’s not a big deal but I wanted to point out that you are not exactly correct in what you’re saying.
I do believe there was a shortage of outfitter tags caused by the fact that all elk zones are capped now and I think there were some additional tags allocated by the F&G Commission this year only to correct that shortfall.
The Idaho system is different than Washington, I think once you get used to it you will find it to be much better. At least I hope so! :tup:
You're not busting my chops, this conversation is important. I'm also not wrong. I e-mailed them for clarification.
If you add up the quotas for the limited zones, capped zones, DAV permits, guide permits.... they did not achieve the total 12,815 limit on non resident tags.
Here's a quote from the email I received back from IDFG:
IDFG: As you’ve noticed, when you add up the new nonresident limits for all of the zones, with the number of nonresident tags in previously capped zones and the number of tags reserved for outfitter use (2,800), the total will be less than the statewide quota that has been in place for years. Before the Commission’s November 2020 action, nonresident tag sales could reach the statewide quota before individual cap zone limits were reached because sales were not limited in all zones. That’s no longer the case, and there’s a differential between the tags available for sale to nonresidents and the statewide quota—that means nonresident tag sales for 2021 will not reach the statewide 12,815 quota.
He also said this in the response:
ME: I know that in the past, unsold NR quota was made available to residents at the NR price. Given that this unit-based quota only applies to NR who buy tags, will they be made available to residents at the NR price given that they're not subject to the same quotas?
IDFG: Any NR deer or elk tags available to the public after 8/1 may be purchased as a second tag by residents. At this time it is our understanding the residents will be subject to the same limits as NRs. Our wildlife bureau and Commission will review how well the limits worked and may make adjustments for 2022 tags.
I would also like to say, this is nothing personal at all, but I'm certainly not wrong. It appears that IDFG went into these new limits half cocked. It is becoming more clear now that the statement IDFG made in March was uncertain and is looking like residents will have a nice little basket of second tags to purchase. These responses were never made clear, as it appears many of us who study the regs have no concise opinion on it.
No worries, I think we are focusing on different issues, I was focusing on what they said about making NR tag limits on each zone to spread out NR hunting pressure, you are focusing on total NR tag numbers, sorry about confusing your statement. :brew:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on August 05, 2021, 12:05:44 PM
Post by: mp.hunter on August 05, 2021, 12:08:01 PM
Who all picked up tags today? I snagged another deer tag. I was number 1039 in the initial que. SO MANY tags available once I got in. Out of curiosity I logged back in 40 min after it opened. Took about 1 min to get in. Obviously deer was no longer an option but there were hundreds of elk tags left.I got a SE tag which I will hunt after my WY lope tag so will hit the opener, yes lots of tags I was number 1380
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Post by: Jimmy33 on August 05, 2021, 12:16:27 PM
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Post by: idaho guy on August 05, 2021, 01:00:13 PM
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on August 05, 2021, 01:41:19 PM
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Post by: jjhunter on August 05, 2021, 01:47:33 PM
Post by: greenhead_killer on August 05, 2021, 02:11:45 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on August 05, 2021, 10:46:52 PM
Who all picked up tags today? I snagged another deer tag. I was number 1039 in the initial que. SO MANY tags available once I got in. Out of curiosity I logged back in 40 min after it opened. Took about 1 min to get in. Obviously deer was no longer an option but there were hundreds of elk tags left.
Karl, I got a second deer tag at about 8 pm Washington time tonight. My buddy just got one at about 10:30 pm tonight so there were still deer tags left.