Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?

[Musketman]

Hi
  I'm an historian by nature. When I'm not hunting I'm reading U.S. history books or doing living history events with my Civil War re-enacting buddies. So when I hunt, I shoot with traditional flint or cap lock muskets. I like the idea that when I take an animal that I did it like my ancestors did. It's my thing and other people don't have to have my passion for history. I understand that people can hunt within the rules with the new muzzeloaders and they have every right to do so but I think that people don't give the old stuff enough credit for the effective kill-ability that they have. The deer in my avatar dropped dead by a 54 cal patched round ball at 80 yards after it ran 60 yards. It's the classic arms race. Like any industry, companies each year come out with the latest thing that you need and last years thing is now obsolete. I suppose that the new muzzeloaders have advantages over the originals but I feel they are getting too modern firearm like and loose the point of the muzzeloader hunt. If you stop to think about it, I would guess more game have been killed with a patched round ball over the 300 years Europeans have been hunting in North America than anything else. Just saying, don't write off the tools that people used for their very existence, they really work.   

[flinter]

Hey Musketman, I couldn't of said it better. I hunt deer almost exculisevly with a flintlock and round ball, the two biggest bucks I've killed were with my flinter. Soon I will have a flintlock for elk. I enjoy carrying a gun my ancesters would of used, My elk gun is going to be represetive of Lewis and Clarks guns.

[Musketman]

Hey Musketman, I couldn't of said it better. I hunt deer almost exculisevly with a flintlock and round ball, the two biggest bucks I've killed were with my flinter. Soon I will have a flintlock for elk. I enjoy carrying a gun my ancesters would of used, My elk gun is going to be represetive of Lewis and Clarks guns.

I think they carried  the 1793 Harpers Ferry and a 1803 Charlville pattern muskets. There is an interesting story in their journals about what happened when they fired on their first grizzly bear, found out they are a bit hard to kill.                                                                                                                            I took out an 1803 smoothbore 69 cal French flinter repro last year but didn't get an opportunity to try it out on meat. Good luck this year. Can't wait for the season to start.

[busterbrown]

I agree, love to shoot my Hawkens 54 caliber with patched round ball. Killed many elk, deer with this load.I love to get close, the challenge.

[gadwall]

Good post.  I started with a hawken about 20 years ago and now have an inline as well.  Shot the inline today and am ready for the season.  Of the 2 guns, the hawken is by far the better shooter with a patched round ball and about 65 grains of powder; and it shoots a 180 grain round ball and a 350 grain Maxi-Hunter equally as well.  the main reason I bought the inline was to have a lighter gun on the long hikes.   

[Natas5150]

I will jump in here being a little bit of history buff myself. One of my hunting partners hunts with a traditional hawkens. He constantly rags on me for having an inline because he to agrees that inline's are in fact close to a modern rifle. I know it's all in fun. What matters to me is that of the hunter in that they kill the game humanly. I believe in some states such as Pennsylvania they have a two week all traditional muzzy hunt only. I am sorry if someone insulted your rifle or traditional gear altogether. I say whatever works for you go with it regardless of what others say.

[RG]

I have hunted with patched round ball in a multitude of different rifles since 1979.  They have always served me very well on mule deer and elk in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Washington.  I currently have two flintlocks I built myself from Track of the Wolf parts.  My deer gun is a .50 Tennessee Mtn Rifle and my elk gun is a full stock hawken style rifle in .54.  They have good locks on them and are pretty quick for a flint.  The hawken is going with me next week to the Bumping Unit when I try to fill my any bull tag.  My partners shoot inlines with sabots.  That's OK but i've never felt under gunned with the round ball.  Elk and deer have never gone even 100 yards after taking one in the chest.  I was heavy into the history and rendezvous shoots for years but haven't done any in a while.

[C-Money]

Very nice rifle RG!

[jcswamp]

I hunt using a knight bighorn with .50 cal round ball and patch, i actually prefer the grouping i get with the round ball over sabots. To each their own i guess. Two more weeks till elk season!!

[lokidog]

My best muzzleloader buck was a 4X4 blacktail with a whitetail shaped rack from west of Medford, OR.  80 yard shot, punched through both lungs, and dropped w/in 30 yards.  Patched roundball did the trick.

[magnanimous_j]

I would love to get into muzzleloaders. I like the historical facet to them. In choosing one, how much less reliable are flintlocks than caps?

Here is the rifle I'm looking at, it's available in both.

[RG]

A "good" flintlock, strong mainspring, hardened frizzen, is pretty reliable.  A not so good one is best used as a club.  All flintlocks present a host of problems not experienced with caplocks.  I love using them but there have been times....  I haven't missed an animal because of the lock but I did miss an animal once because I flinched during the delay between flint strike and ignition.  ( A 5 point bull)  The problem hasn't struck since then but I shoot a lot to stay familiar with it.  It's sort of like shooting traditional bows, you have to be willing to put up with the handicap in order to get the sense of satisfaction that comes with being successful with it.  It's not for everyone, nor should it be, but it can be fun.

[KLRKeith]

Musketman check out some of the years previous' post.   I'm 3 for 3 with patched round ball and Mule deer.  I have two Lyman great plains rifles a flinter and percussion both in .54 and both shooting patched round ball.  75-100 yards are the best I can shoot at but that's due to my eyesight and iron sights.  Either way it's a very effective combo.  I agree; probably more deer have been killed with the patched round ball than any other firearm projecticle out there.
BTW nice flintlocks in the thread.  One day I would like to go the custom route.

[RG]

I think it's interesting, and amusing, that there are gun writers, Toby Bridges for one, who write rubbish that makes it sound like a patched round ball isn't effective on anything bigger than a rabbit.  Having been in the sporting goods business for a period of years I know that he is influenced by the manufacturers of certain firearms but it's still pretty sad because he's caused a lot of people to never try traditional guns for hunting.  I guess it's messier, and there are a few more steps in the loading process compared to pushing a sabot round down the barrel, but patched round balls were there when muzzleloaders were invented.  For several hundred years people used them to feed and defend their families.  I saw a video of an Alaskan grizzly being taken with a .54 round ball and 100 grains of 3fff black powder. He ran 60 yards and crashed.  It's a lot like powder choice too.  I shoot 3fff goex black powder because it works really well in my guns.  My son in law hunts with me and uses a Knight Bighorn with triple 7.  He has no interest in putting up with the bother of using my gun and I'm not interested in hunting with his gun.  That's OK, both guns are equal in terms of their effectiveness and we are both happy with our choice.  That's what's important because there are those who would try to get us to argue about which is more correct or a better weapon. 

[dvolmer]

This is a tough one.  I think if you practice and spend the time needed with a roundball you should be fine if you know your limitations and performance of your gun and ammo.  A couple of years ago the WDFG lifted the restrictions on jacketed bullets.  this was due to the only difference in them is the killing power of the bullet.  they shot the same distance and accuracy of the conical bullets that were lead only but held together better once they entered the animal.  So in theory they didn't give the hunter any more advantage at all but just gave the animal a better chance of dieing humanely.  The thought process was that the same amount of animals would be hit and die but hunter success would be better with more animals recovered and less lost and not found to die a slow death and be wasted. I need to note here that i am not talking about sabot loads at all in my above thoughts.

With that being said, I don't see why a hunter wouldn't use a conical copper jacketed bullet (like on made by Powerbelt or equivalent) even out of their old style flint locks.  It just gives the game a better chance of being killed quickly and humanely without making the experience be much different from our ancestors.  now I know I will get a lot of people telling me there quick kills with round balls and I am sure there is alot of them but they all would have died with the conical bullet also and the other stories that will never be shared here by others might have been avoided. 

My hope is that the guys that hunt with these older rifles and want to use roundballs consider what they are using and adjust there max distance and things to the limits of the gun.  It seems the guys on this thread do that and my hand is out to you all because you are using something that shares our history and you seem to be doing it the right way.