collapse
For when you only get one shot! Advertise on Hunting-Washington

Author Topic: Ask RBros Thread  (Read 14967 times)

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Ask RBros Thread
« on: August 22, 2016, 05:30:49 PM »
This is for questions regarding shooting, reloading, build advice, etc.........no ethics discussions please
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34926
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 05:33:22 PM »
I'd like to know if you guys do any work on existing rifles. I.E. I have a Remington 700 Long Range and I think it shoots pretty good but I know it could be better. I had it shooting in the .8" range with factory HSM ammo and I'd like to know if there's anything you'd recommend doing to it to tighten those groups up and do you do stuff like that one someone else's rifle. Working up a load it shoots well is definitely in the plan, but what about things like bedding, trigger work, etc or do you only build rifles from the ground up? I'd also be interested in fluting the barrel and bolt just for that cool look. Curious to know your thoughts on that.

Thanks. This should be a good thread to follow.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Karl Blanchard

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 4322
  • Location: Selah, WA
  • Jonathan_S hunting apparel prostaff
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 05:35:27 PM »
Cool idea!  Dont really have any questions at the moment but always thirsty for knowledge feom guys like you.  Tagging along :hello:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

Aaron's Profile:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2875
Aaron's Posts:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2875
Aaron's Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/aaron.blanchard.94

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 06:08:26 PM »
I'd like to know if you guys do any work on existing rifles. I.E. I have a Remington 700 Long Range and I think it shoots pretty good but I know it could be better. I had it shooting in the .8" range with factory HSM ammo and I'd like to know if there's anything you'd recommend doing to it to tighten those groups up and do you do stuff like that one someone else's rifle. Working up a load it shoots well is definitely in the plan, but what about things like bedding, trigger work, etc or do you only build rifles from the ground up? I'd also be interested in fluting the barrel and bolt just for that cool look. Curious to know your thoughts on that.

Thanks. This should be a good thread to follow.

From what I have seen on the Rem 700 LR Rifles, the following typically adds some improvement:
Skim Bed action and lug
Jewell Trigger
Brake and re-crown
Saddle cheekpiece

This is all stuff we can do.  I don't do any "accurizing" as some call it where they lap lugs, claim to true up the action and spin your barrel back on.  If your going to true the action, put a new barrel on it and really get the performance.


I wouldn't flute the barrel, a guy really wants to leave that up to the barrel manufacturers.  To big of a risk to have it go wrong.  Fluting the bolt is a pretty common thing however.  Its more cosmetic on Remingtons, but will reduce a little bit of weight.
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline huntandjeep

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 2006
  • Location: West Valley , Yakima
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 06:56:29 PM »
How long does it take to build a rifle ? Always wondered about the test targets builders show ?When you show test targets are those factory ammo or reloads , if reloads do all your rifles like the same recipe or do you work up a load for each individual rifle ?
Anyone that thinks a Glock is better than a 1911 paints his toenails.
Yakima Valley Mountaineers

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 06:58:08 PM »
Great idea for a thread!

Where is the best/correct place to measure sight height (center bore to center scope) when using a base with 20 MOA built into the base? And, how much does it really matter?
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 05:23:16 AM »
How long does it take to build a rifle ? Always wondered about the test targets builders show ?When you show test targets are those factory ammo or reloads , if reloads do all your rifles like the same recipe or do you work up a load for each individual rifle ?

With the machining, stock fitting, bedding, coating, etc....there is usually about approx. 12-14hr per rifle.

Most of my test targets are with handloads, but some I use factory ammo with as well.  A lot of the 6.5 Creedmoors, 260's, 280AI's, and 338 Lapua's, I will use factory ammo with.

Now, here is the part that bugs me about other builders.  That charge they bill for "load development"....its a complete BS deal.  Just a way to get a little extra money for actually shooting the rifle.  The load recipe never changes from rifle to rifle.  In the last 10yrs the only thing that has changed is that I had to back down my charge weight on my 7 Mag load since Retumbo became a little faster burn rate in the last couple years.  Other than that, every rifle that I build runs the same loads and they are very well proven for accuracy.
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 05:30:30 AM »
Great idea for a thread!

Where is the best/correct place to measure sight height (center bore to center scope) when using a base with 20 MOA built into the base? And, how much does it really matter?

Here is an easy way to do it.  Lets use the following scenario:

You barrel shank is 1.25" diameter, so half that is: .625"
Your scope is a 30mm tube or 1.181", so half that is: .5905"
The distance from the top of your barrel at the recoil lug area to the bottom of the 30mm tube section is: .729"

Add those all together and you come up with 1.9445", round that to 1.95" and put that into you ballistic app.  A slight difference in height won't make that much difference, but if you leave it at the default number of 1.5" of most apps, you would be a bit off at distance using this example.
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline jasnt

  • Predator hunter
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 4111
  • Location: deer park
  • Groups: WSTA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 05:50:10 AM »
Tagging
🐾

"... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes."
Charles R. Swindoll

Offline jkthomps

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 963
  • Location: Edmonds
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 12:11:50 PM »
tagging in. I have a Rem 700 LR 300rum that may need your love.  :chuckle: :tup:

Why do you recommend a jewel triggers over timney triggers on the Rem 700s? 

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 01:06:48 PM »
tagging in. I have a Rem 700 LR 300rum that may need your love.  :chuckle: :tup:

Why do you recommend a jewel triggers over timney triggers on the Rem 700s?

Overall they are a better trigger as long as they are adjusted correctly.  A Jewell will always feels crisper than a Timney no matter what the weight of pull is.
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline Gringo31

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 4995
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 01:12:00 PM »
 :tup:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

Offline 2MANY

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 1589
  • Location: Chehalis
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2016, 01:22:44 PM »
I have a question for Travis.

Why the hell doesn't everyone just bite the bullet and buy a new RBros rifle????

JUST DO IT!!

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 16499
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2016, 01:48:26 PM »
How light could you make a rifle for big game that would meet your accuracy expectations?
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline JLR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 46
  • Location: Wenatchee, WA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2016, 01:55:08 PM »
How light could you make a rifle for big game that would meet your accuracy expectations?

Our long action Lightweight Hunters are 6.75# without glass or bipod. 
http://rbrosrifles.com/rifle-packages/lw-hunter/

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 16499
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2016, 01:56:58 PM »
Thanks!
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Branden

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 337
  • Location: nodak
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2016, 02:49:23 PM »
What do you think of Trigger Tech riggers?

Regards, Branden

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2016, 03:09:21 PM »
Great idea for a thread!

Where is the best/correct place to measure sight height (center bore to center scope) when using a base with 20 MOA built into the base? And, how much does it really matter?

Here is an easy way to do it.  Lets use the following scenario:

You barrel shank is 1.25" diameter, so half that is: .625"
Your scope is a 30mm tube or 1.181", so half that is: .5905"
The distance from the top of your barrel at the recoil lug area to the bottom of the 30mm tube section is: .729"

Add those all together and you come up with 1.9445", round that to 1.95" and put that into you ballistic app.  A slight difference in height won't make that much difference, but if you leave it at the default number of 1.5" of most apps, you would be a bit off at distance using this example.

Hmmm...the how-to wasn't the question.  Got that.

How much, if any difference does it make when/where measuring the sight height when using a 20 or 40 MOA base?  For the sake of taking it to the extreme to see if there is a gnat's ass worth of difference, for example let's use a 200 MOA base and a long NF 5-25 NF-type scope.  Is the correct place to measure at the eyepiece, turrets that house the reticle or the objective.  Each will represent a significantly different measurement.  So, where is the best place to measure and what, if any, real world difference does it make?
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2016, 03:23:23 PM »
Midlength of the scope would give you an average.  On a long action 30 MOA rail your talking about .042" of slope roughly in the length of the rail.  Using the mid point of the scope would get you and average, but like I said, its not a huge bearing on impact whether you measure at the lug area or the eyepiece. 
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2016, 03:27:40 PM »
Thank you.
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Jolten

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 478
  • Location: Yakima, WA
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2016, 03:41:15 PM »
Reloading .308 using BLC2 powder, BR2 primers. 165gr HPBT Sierra GameKings loaded at 2.626COAL.

Powder weights from 40.5gr to 43.5. First 2 shots would touch. 3rd shot varied between 1/4 to 1inch apart from the first 2. And never straying in the same direction.

For example 40.5 gr first 2 shots would touch. 3rd would hit upper right 1/2 inch away from the first 2.

With 43.5 first 2 would touch. 3rd was 3/4 in lower left.

Any ideas on what would cause this? There was about a 3-4 min break between shots with 10min between groups. Using a Savage 10t with a 1-10 twist.
The best equipment in the world is useless to the idiot who doesn't understand it.

Offline Angry Perch

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: Sammamish / Lake Wenatchee
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2016, 04:23:03 PM »
Midlength of the scope would give you an average.  On a long action 30 MOA rail your talking about .042" of slope roughly in the length of the rail.  Using the mid point of the scope would get you and average, but like I said, its not a huge bearing on impact whether you measure at the lug area or the eyepiece.

I think I can safely say that I know less about long range shooting than anyone. I'm a sight it in a couple inches high at 100, and don't shoot past 20 kind of guy. But I've always wondered what a "20 MOA rail" or "40 MOA rail" was. Is it actually slanted towards the muzzle so you have some built in elevation?

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2016, 04:29:28 PM »
Reloading .308 using BLC2 powder, BR2 primers. 165gr HPBT Sierra GameKings loaded at 2.626COAL.

Powder weights from 40.5gr to 43.5. First 2 shots would touch. 3rd shot varied between 1/4 to 1inch apart from the first 2. And never straying in the same direction.

For example 40.5 gr first 2 shots would touch. 3rd would hit upper right 1/2 inch away from the first 2.

With 43.5 first 2 would touch. 3rd was 3/4 in lower left.

Any ideas on what would cause this? There was about a 3-4 min break between shots with 10min between groups. Using a Savage 10t with a 1-10 twist.

It could be a matter of cheekweld.  You may be able to be consistent for a couple shots then you position changes.  You might try shooting 3 shots in a row and not pick your head up of the rifle while working the bolt.  Try to find a reference point on your face where it touches the stock and keep that position the same.  Identical concept to an anchor point in archery.

I am leaning towards form since you are always getting two shots to touch and there is no consistency where the 3rd is going. 
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline rbros

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Elma, Wa
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2016, 04:33:53 PM »
Midlength of the scope would give you an average.  On a long action 30 MOA rail your talking about .042" of slope roughly in the length of the rail.  Using the mid point of the scope would get you and average, but like I said, its not a huge bearing on impact whether you measure at the lug area or the eyepiece.

I think I can safely say that I know less about long range shooting than anyone. I'm a sight it in a couple inches high at 100, and don't shoot past 20 kind of guy. But I've always wondered what a "20 MOA rail" or "40 MOA rail" was. Is it actually slanted towards the muzzle so you have some built in elevation?

A 20-40 MOA rail is actually taller in the rear and slopes down towards the muzzle.  This allows your scope to have more upward travel in simple terms.  Lets say your scope has 100 MOA of travel.  With the cross hairs centered you may be 50 minutes of elevation travel left.  By installing it on a 20MOA rail, you would now have 70 MOA of elevation travel available in the scope now.  Hopefully that makes sense how I worded it.
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com

Offline brew

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 819
  • Location: yelm
Re: Ask RBros Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2016, 04:54:25 PM »
really cool thread...good reading--thanks for the info
beer---it's whats for dinner