TO FORCE FETCH OR NOT TO FORCE FETCH? THAT IS THE QUESTION

[BIGINNER]

WHAT ARE THE REASONS FOR TEACHING THE DOG FORCE FETCH?  WHY WOULD YOU? AND WHY WOULDN'T YOU?

[dreamunelk]

In my opinion there is no point in forcing.  With out knowing the reasoning it is hard to reply.  Overall if there is an issue fetching it lies with the master and not the dog. 

[Fowlweather25]

For when they refuse to make a retrieval of any kind, I'm not a fan of it my self, and would not use it until I've exhausted every other option.   if force retrieve isn't done just right you can very quickly ruin your dogs confidence. And even make him a little scared there is a fineline between success and failure with it.

[bobcat]

I never did it with my dogs but I probably should have. I believe the purpose of it is to get your dog to always bring the bird to you, and drop it in your hand, not pick it up and then drop it wherever, and then continue hunting while you're stuck looking for the bird. Or if the bird was still alive, the bird runs off, and the dogs off looking for more birds.   

[BIGINNER]

THANKS FOR THE REPLIES.  I THINK FORCE FETCH IS NOT FOR MY DOG, LOL  HE RETREIVES GREAT,.. EVERY SINGLE BIRD I'VE SHOT SO FAR WAS ALWAYS RETRIEVED AND BROUGHT RIGHT TO MY HAND.     HE'S NOT A VERY BIG FAN OF FETCHING HIS BUMPER OR TOYS,.. BUT HE'S A KILLER RETRIEVER WITH BIRDS.

[bobcat]

Out of three dogs i've had the only real problem was with my Golden retriever when retrieving ducks. She loved going in the water, so to fetch a duck to her was just a good excuse to go swimming and get wet. But she didn't like ducks, so as soon as she got out of the water she would spit it out and would refuse to pick it up again. I'm sure she was thinking I did my job, now you can get out of that blind and come get it yourself.  That's a case where force fetch training would have been the solution, but I never did it. Instead I quit duck hunting and switched to pheasant hunting, which my dog enjoyed so much more, and with pheasants, or any other upland bird, she would not drop them, unless it was into my hand.

[Happy Gilmore]

Force fetching is about a lot more than just bringing a bird back to your hand. Force Fetch(FF) teaches a dog to cope with pressure. It's the foundation for all training. FFing a dog can take a soft dog and give it confidence, it can take an out of control dog and make it biddable. FF to a dog is like a drill sergeant teaching a recruit to strip and reassemble his weapon. That task is accomplished to the point that the recruit can do it in his sleep under any mental strain or pressure. That is what FF does for a dog. It teaches them to cope and it teaches them that there is a correct response to about every situation.

For fetch teaches momentum. Momentum in training can be actual speed and it can be an actual attitude about doing the job. I dog which does not retrieve reliably 100% of the time will fail you at some point. Once the dog fails you once, it learns it can fail you as often as he chooses. Then, giving you the correct response hunting becomes an option for the dog rather than a requirement.

I help out with dog rescue and have since I lived in Eburg in 2000. I don't do a lot but, when needed I do what I can. I've never seen a forced fetch dog show up in a rescue shelter. I've never seen a FF'd dog given away to a family because it doesn't hunt. I've never seen a FF'd dog given away because it won't retrieve a duck.

My response to the question?

I would not own a retriever or pointer that was not Force Fetched.

[Cascade_fisher]

  +100

[goosegetter79]

Never ff'd any of my labs i've had so far and they have retrieved everything from quail to geese!!!!!

[Fowlweather25]

  same here!  Not every dog needs to be force fetch trained! That's a pretty broad assumption to think very dog needs it.

[Happy Gilmore]

same here!  Not every dog needs to be force fetch trained! That's a pretty broad assumption to think very dog needs it.

Depends on your standards. If your dog doesn't see a bird fall across a pond into high cattails do you leave it to rot? Or, do you send your dog on a back and handle it to the bird?

To me, being responsible duck hunting means you pick up everything you shoot. Even if it costs you flaring ducks that would have come in because you're handling your dog to a bird or the dog is on a long swim.

[Happy Gilmore]

Retrieving on land is typically a gimmee. FF counts when it's cold, icy and you have a lot of water staring you in the face.

The other consideration is that along with FF will come collar conditioning. At the same time, you are teaching the dog what the e-collar means. And again, we revert back to dealing with pressure. Properly done, FF and collar conditioning teaches a dog the right response for a correction.

It kills me when people strap and e-collar on a dog and thing that is all they need to do for results. It is unfair to the dog and might help you say no but, an e-collar should not be used that way.

[rtspring]

F/F is not in any way a requirement for a dog. I have trained two of them with out F/F.   It can be done and is done alot...

And the comment about a dog that isn't F/F not retrieving birds? I beg to differ with your opionion on the subject.

[Fowlweather25]

I've never let a bird lie to ot simply because my dog didn't mark it! But my dog regulary makes invisible retrieves and has never been force fetch trained! He knows how to hunt back and left to right! Never had a problem.

[Happy Gilmore]

F/F is not in any way a requirement for a dog. I have trained two of them with out F/F.   It can be done and is done alot...

And the comment about a dog that isn't F/F not retrieving birds? I beg to differ with your opionion on the subject.

Some dogs have a natural mouth and will retrieve. But, do they handle or are you throwing rocks in the direction you want your dog to go?