Denied Firearm Transfer?

[Becky]

Those Ghosts in the closet will get ya everytime! Lol Same kinda thing that happenend to me.

Good thats its all getting cleared up.

Yea I guess so! It never once crossed my mind, it never came up in anything else lol

[ICEMAN]

Wee on a computer, dun dun dunnn, onto the story. Okay so a few of you already said something similar.

- To the ones who keep saying federal NICS etc, I called and called and left voicemails to ask for my case # or whatever exactly it's called (TNT? something, I can't find it in this thread anymore) and I never got any calls back from Cabela's so I didn't go that route.
- I called every phone number I could find for Pierce County, ended up emailing them off the LESA website/South Sound 911 and they promptly emailed me back and said I'll get the information in the mail but if I wish to call, just keep pressing 0 to speak to someone. Go figure lol.
- I DO have a Federal Secret Security Clearance, had this actually went as a federal background check/purchase, I'm 99% it would have went through. It went straight to Pierce County, and there only. Someone earlier mentioned it was because it was a handgun purchase and that is why. I have no clue.

Sooooooo, the denial, is something kind of funny that I honestly forgot happened. Roughly 10 years ago when I was 16, I had some bad judgement in a popular girl friend that got caught shoplifting while I was with her. You are at that point an accomplice, regardless of what you did or have on you. We got arrested and taken to juvie, sent home to our parents, then had court a week later. I guess the amount she had on her qualified as a Theft II (?) and after court we were told it was expunged from our record/dismissed/deferred something along those lines. I don't quite remember all of it, my mom did it all.

FLASH FORWARD to now, that's not anywhere on my federal record, but the arrest IS on record with the local Pierce County Sheriff's Office and bingo, apparently Theft II is a low-end felony. Although no charges were made and I wasn't convicted of anything, the simple fact that is was even there says I can't purchase any firearm. The lady I spoke with told me to just go down to Remann Hall and have my juvenile records sealed then try again after.

Here is where it's weird to me and maybe someone can explain - the filing clerk at Remann Hall and the LESA official I spoke to, said COMPLETELY OPPOSITE things to me. I kept calling them back and forth, saying "well they said ____". LESA says, deferred means "finding of guilt" but I don't have a felony and was not charged with anything, but I still can't have a firearm until the record is sealed. Remann Hall says "absolutely not, it says on your record right there that it was dismissed, and a deferred means you have to do something in return for it to be dismissed" and then he went onto say "it's good to know the people in charge over there really know what they're saying" and he rolled his eyes! Either way, I didn't even know anything was there to begin with and nothing has been there since, so I filled it all out to have it sealed then this Friday I go in again and figure the rest out.

So yeah, thanks to everyone's help though because I sure as heck couldn't of figured it out!

Also, in the legal arena, there is a big difference between "deferred prosecution" and "deferred sentence".  If Def Pros, then you were not prosecuted, and need this posted to your record. If you were Def Sent, then a finding of "deferred Sentence (guilty) is posted to your record, even if it was later dismissed.

You may actually need to lawyer up to get this resolved. A juvenile arrest record with no resolution, no final court disposition can later be updated with "Deferred Sentence" and cause your record to be an automatic denial, as a felony theft II will now appear on your record, where previously it was "open" with no final disposition. A deferred sentence is considered conviction data on a RAPsheet.

[Becky]

Also, in the legal arena, there is a big difference between "deferred prosecution" and "deferred sentence".  If Def Pros, then you were not prosecuted, and need this posted to your record. If you were Def Sent, then a finding of "deferred Sentence (guilty) is posted to your record, even if it was later dismissed.

You may actually need to lawyer up to get this resolved. A juvenile arrest record with no resolution, no final court disposition can later be updated with "Deferred Sentence" and cause your record to be an automatic denial, as a felony theft II will now appear on your record, where previously it was "open" with no final disposition. A deferred sentence is considered conviction data on a RAPsheet.

Good information, it's definitely closed, I got to read the records and it had a final date of closing/dismissal. I guess I don't understand what a deferred sentence is. There is "deferred sentence", "deferred disposition", and "deferred prosicution". All I remember being told about that time was "deferred"...

This is basically what the gentleman at Remann Hall said had happened - I had an apology letter, I wrote it, the requirements were satisfied and it was dismissed. He was saying that it shouldn't have been a factor in purchasing a weapon as I was not convicted of anything and it's not on any federal record, only the local sheriff's office because I never had it sealed. He helped me fill out the sealing documents though and they get sent off to 4 different locations. I go back Friday to see them and what happens. Maybe I'm not understanding it all correctly then, but I know I have 0 convictions on my record.

-Hindsight, I probably should have had a lawyer THEN, I had nothing on me and I'm sure a lawyer would have a lot more to say than a scared kid just going through the motions of what they tell you. 

[csaaphill]

defered means they wont prosecute as long as you live up to some kind of deal arangement, and stay clean for a certain amount of time. most cases usually two years

[NoImpactNoIdea]

defered means they wont prosecute as long as you live up to some kind of deal arangement, and stay clean for a certain amount of time. most cases usually two years

That is deferred prosecution.  There could have been a deferred sentence with a conviction.

[MadHatter]

In WA for a firearms purchase that goes through your local LE they run a criminal history. It shows all your arrests, charges and everything else.  What I am wondering is if someone did was ran it, saw you were CHARGED with a felony, doesn't know how to read the whole report and denied the purchase.  It will show as an arrest, but the arresting agency and what charges went along with the arrest, but it will also show the outcome.  It might be that you will get it sealed, but still have a problem with PCSO reading the criminal history wrong and it being denied.  In that case, you might need to get a lawyer involved.

It could also be that if there is no disposition at all that its still showing as "open," and I believe that if charged with a felony, with an open case, that they can deny a purchase as well, at least until there is a resolution. 

Example: Adam goes out on a Friday night and commits a burglary.  He is arrested and charged with Burglary 2 and several other crimes not pertinent to this example .  His mommy bails him out Monday morning and he goes to his local gun store to buy a hand gun.  Adam does not have a CPL and his information is faxed to the local LE, who sees that he has an open case with a felony charge with a court date a month from now, and denies that purchase.

[Becky]

Okay translate -

"Pros Case Status: CASE IS CLOSED"
"Disposition: DISM/DEFERRED ADJUDICATION" as of 2003

I never pleaded guilty, it was no contest. From what I gathered searching information, its just sitting there forever until it's sealed but there was no conviction. The original crime just is public record.

[NoImpactNoIdea]

Okay translate -

"Pros Case Status: CASE IS CLOSED"
"Disposition: DISM/DEFERRED ADJUDICATION" as of 2003

I never pleaded guilty, it was no contest. From what I gathered searching information, its just sitting there forever until it's sealed but there was no conviction. The original crime just is public record.

 
Nolo contendere is a legal term that comes from the Latin for "I do not wish to contend." It is also referred to as a plea of no contest. In criminal trials in certain U.S. jurisdictions, it is a plea where the defendant neither admits nor disputes a charge, serving as an alternative to a pleading of guilty or not guilty. A no-contest plea, while not technically a guilty plea, has the same immediate effect as a guilty plea, and is often offered as a part of a plea bargain.

[JoeE]

Okay translate -

"Pros Case Status: CASE IS CLOSED"
"Disposition: DISM/DEFERRED ADJUDICATION" as of 2003

I never pleaded guilty, it was no contest. From what I gathered searching information, its just sitting there forever until it's sealed but there was no conviction. The original crime just is public record.

 
Nolo contendere is a legal term that comes from the Latin for "I do not wish to contend." It is also referred to as a plea of no contest. In criminal trials in certain U.S. jurisdictions, it is a plea where the defendant neither admits nor disputes a charge, serving as an alternative to a pleading of guilty or not guilty. A no-contest plea, while not technically a guilty plea, has the same immediate effect as a guilty plea, and is often offered as a part of a plea bargain.

 

[Becky]

Okay translate -

"Pros Case Status: CASE IS CLOSED"
"Disposition: DISM/DEFERRED ADJUDICATION" as of 2003

I never pleaded guilty, it was no contest. From what I gathered searching information, its just sitting there forever until it's sealed but there was no conviction. The original crime just is public record.

 
Nolo contendere is a legal term that comes from the Latin for "I do not wish to contend." It is also referred to as a plea of no contest. In criminal trials in certain U.S. jurisdictions, it is a plea where the defendant neither admits nor disputes a charge, serving as an alternative to a pleading of guilty or not guilty. A no-contest plea, while not technically a guilty plea, has the same immediate effect as a guilty plea, and is often offered as a part of a plea bargain.

Okay, but it was still dismissed and closed (?) so they said "write this apology letter" and it turns into deferred adjudication because at that point that is a "you do this, and it's dismissed"-thing, correct? Or did he not explain it right?

[Becky]

so you need to request court to have case sealed,or expunged? when all this Obama stuff started i remember a few cases of people that were prohibited but didnt even know it and were charged with firearm possession.then it went to supreme court and i dont know from there.very scary.so all in all you have found out that you are clear from everything and now can according to the courts posses right?

Yep did that! Just waiting to hear the outcome now.

[GrainfedMuley]

Does Smossy have the same legal address?

No we don't "live" together. Nothing on record connects us.

Except a thread on the "WORLD WIDE INTERNET!"  Big brother can find and know more information about each of us than you think. Is your security clearance through DOD or NSA?

[GrainfedMuley]

so you need to request court to have case sealed,or expunged? when all this Obama stuff started i remember a few cases of people that were prohibited but didnt even know it and were charged with firearm possession.then it went to supreme court and i dont know from there.very scary.so all in all you have found out that you are clear from everything and now can according to the courts posses right?

Yep did that! Just waiting to hear the outcome now.

BUT!, there are rules and not all records can be expunged. If the incident happened before 1994 it can not be expunged.

[GrainfedMuley]

I just had another thought. Do you have a CWP? If not try and go that route. Get your permit and then get the hand gun.

[Becky]

Yayyyyyyy all this is done and behind me, off to re-find my gun -ecstatic-