Selling a Rifle in Washington

[magnanimous_j]

I'm probably going to be selling a rifle to another member here in the next day or so. As far as I can tell, I don't have the legal responsibility to really do anything as far as documentation or gov forms.

However, I'm kind of paranoid by nature. So what do you guys do to CYA when you do this?

[724wd]

bill of sale.  if the guy will give you his DL #, great.  otherwise just go with it!   

[hrd2fnd]

bill of sale.  if the guy will give you his DL #, great.  otherwise just go with it!   

[Fl0und3rz]

With just a WA DL, you cannot tell whether a person is a prohibited purchaser.  For example, if an illegal immigrant can get a WA DL, and I have no reason to think that they cannot, you could be selling to an alien without an alien firearms license. (There's some TX case, IIRC, where a guy was prosecuted for selling to an illegal alien.) Likewise, felons or those with DV records or protection orders against them could be prohibited persons and still have a WA DL.

As a fellow "paranoid by nature" person, I like to require a CPL (or other good guy credentials such as Mil/LE*, current WAC membership, or other credential evidencing a background check has been performed, etc.) for all transactions. But beyond that, I do not keep records, because I am not an agent of the state for purposes of tracking down firearms used in crimes.

Some people use the state firearms transfer record as an additional or substitute CYA, and if a person is not CPL'd and unwilling to undergo such procedures, they pass on the transaction.

*NB - Mil/LE is not as surefire as a CPL or other credential evidencing a background check has been performed, but it gives me additional peace of mind that they are not an illegal alien and/or they have skin in the game as to not risk reckless behavior re: firearms.

[CP]

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[jackelope]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.080


You could use this. They only offer one specific to handguns that I can tell.

http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf

[jrebel]

With just a WA DL, you cannot tell whether a person is a prohibited purchaser.  For example, if an illegal immigrant can get a WA DL, and I have no reason to think that they cannot, you could be selling to an alien without an alien firearms license. (There's some TX case, IIRC, where a guy was prosecuted for selling to an illegal alien.) Likewise, felons or those with DV records or protection orders against them could be prohibited persons and still have a WA DL.

As a fellow "paranoid by nature" person, I like to require a CPL (or other good guy credentials such as Mil/LE*, current WAC membership, or other credential evidencing a background check has been performed, etc.) for all transactions. But beyond that, I do not keep records, because I am not an agent of the state for purposes of tracking down firearms used in crimes.

Some people use the state firearms transfer record as an additional or substitute CYA, and if a person is not CPL'd and unwilling to undergo such procedures, they pass on the transaction.

*NB - Mil/LE is not as surefire as a CPL or other credential evidencing a background check has been performed, but it gives me additional peace of mind that they are not an illegal alien and/or they have skin in the game as to not risk reckless behavior re: firearms.

Just because someone has a CPL does not mean they have good credentials......it means they had good credentials when they received the CPL.   

A quick glance at a picture ID to verify name and a basic receipt to release your liability (paper trail) should it later be used in a crime.  As long as you don't sell to a known felon or individual that is not allowed to own a gun and they are of age (18 for rifle purchase, 21 for pistol purchase) you will be just fine. 

Good Luck

[runamuk]

bill of sale.  if the guy will give you his DL #, great.  otherwise just go with it!   

for handguns I always state in my ad cpl, state ID, bill of sale, face to face....one this will cause the sketchy paranoids to not waste my time...I also trust my gut if someones demeanor is off I just walk away.  I have sold 2 guns to huntwa members both great transactions and really good people.  Also stalking checking out a huntwa member is reasonably easy, read their posts ask around privately if anyone has had dealings etc.....

if you are really paranoid tack on enough to cover the use services of a ffl holder several of the pawn shops will do this for you for a fee

[Fl0und3rz]

Just because someone has a CPL does not mean they have good credentials......it means they had good credentials when they received the CPL.   

Agree, but you're missing the point. "Credentials" are merely an indication of a persons qualifications, whether valid or not.  It is the credentials that you are after, so that in any subsequent inquiry whether you "knew or should have known" that the purchaser was prohibited, you have shown that you have done that which was reasonable, under the circumstances, to prevent selling to a prohibited purchaser. 

Even requiring an FFL to conduct the transaction is no guarantee that the purchaser did not commit a crime yesterday, is a drug user/abuser, DV perpetrator, etc.  But that would certainly go above and beyond what is reasonable, under the circumstances, to prevent selling to a prohibited purchaser.

[fish vacuum]

*NB - Mil/LE is not as surefire as a CPL or other credential evidencing a background check has been performed

LE identification isn't as good as a CPL?

[Fl0und3rz]

Re: LE/Mil, I am leaving room for the possibility that you can be prohibited, but still have these credentials. Granted, it's probably an exceedingly small number of instances, but we're talking in the realm of paranoia, per OP.

[12Gauge]

I would do a bill of sale, and in the bill of sale, affirm that the buyer is not a criminal and that the gun for sale is not stolen.

[jackelope]

If you're really that paranoid, take it to a FFL and have them transfer it to the new owner. Probably cost $30 or so to do it. Then you know it's handled responsibly and the new owner can own a firearm.

[Biggerhammer]

He hands you the cash, you hand him the rifle and its a done deal. I've bought and sold a BUNCH of firearms for 25 years like that and have never had a problem.

[mountainman]

I have no problem selling FTF with a buyer as long as I am confident that I know enough to trust there will be no issues with the purchase. Otherwise, I try to be sure I can prove due diligence on the transaction by requiring the bill of sale, drivers license, cpl, etc...I know that this is not required in Washington state, but due diligence is cheaper than taking time off from work to attend court proceedings to defend myself if something went bad. Stranger things have happened in this state!!!