Question about selling a rifle

[Solohunter84]

I may be selling my first rifle tomorrow to a private party person that resides in washington state and I was curious if I need to... or should make up some sort of bill of sale or not.  I read that there are no documents that are needed at all to sell to another person as long as they are able to own a firearm.  Then it goes on to say but... it doesn't say you have to have any documents. so pretty much you can sell to anyone with no documentation and be fine.  But i would like to make sure I have my bases covered just in case some stuff happens. to prove i sold it.  anyone have suggestions? thanks

[Knocker of rocks]

A bill of sale with SN is a good idea

[Solohunter84]

Thanks.  I found one online and printed it out.  I never stated I was selling with any ammo. So i am going with no ammo as well.

[mountainman]

Bill of sale, serial #, both date and sign. Not bad idea to get drivers and ccp#'s also if available..

[Solohunter84]

ccp is a good idea. thanks for that.  I have the bill of sale filled out on my end already. hopefully it sells so i can get more serious about finding a bow!

[Special T]

It mostly protects YOU to have a bill of sale. As a purchaser i Prefer to have one so that they cannot claim its stolen... As a seller if they had a CCP I would not think twice about selling without a bill of sale.

[CP]

Personally, I won’t buy a firearm from a private party if they require a BOS.  I don’t mind showing (not giving a copy of) my DL and CPL but the seller doesn’t need my personal information and I don’t want it floating about in someone’s “person records”. 

[jay.sharkbait]

Personally, I won’t buy a firearm from a private party if they require a BOS.  I don’t mind showing (not giving a copy of) my DL and CPL but the seller doesn’t need my personal information and I don’t want it floating about in someone’s “person records”.

Exactly.

I think keeping records would make the seller look like a dealer. Every firearm I've sold I ask to see a Wa Id.  and ask if it is legal for them to own a firearm. I won't ask to see a CPL as a CPL isn't a requirement to own a firearm.

Also, I think the seller needs to make his/her requirements clear before a buyer spends too much time driving, leaving work early etc.

[dmv9]

Personally, I won’t buy a firearm from a private party if they require a BOS.  I don’t mind showing (not giving a copy of) my DL and CPL but the seller doesn’t need my personal information and I don’t want it floating about in someone’s “person records”.

Exactly.

I think keeping records would make the seller look like a dealer. Every firearm I've sold I ask to see a Wa Id.  and ask if it is legal for them to own a firearm. I won't ask to see a CPL as a CPL isn't a requirement to own a firearm.

Also, I think the seller needs to make his/her requirements clear before a buyer spends too much time driving, leaving work early etc.

 

[LEN]

Let see the other side. Where were you on the 23rd when this weapon was used to kill the pres. and is registered to you. Oh I sold it to some kluts that just killed the pres. but I don't know who he was. Not happening man!!! I have some record on every gun I sell or trade. If I have to give ID for a weapon so do you or NO DEAL! JMO

[Fl0und3rz]

It mostly protects YOU to have a bill of sale. As a purchaser i Prefer to have one so that they cannot claim its stolen... As a seller if they had a CCP I would not think twice about selling without a bill of sale.

This.  I won't sell without a CCP or some other good guy credential.  The risk is that you could be selling to a prohibited person, even if you are doing so unknowingly.

Let see the other side. Where were you on the 23rd when this weapon was used to kill the pres. and is registered to you. Oh I sold it to some kluts that just killed the pres. but I don't know who he was. Not happening man!!! I have some record on every gun I sell or trade. If I have to give ID for a weapon so do you or NO DEAL! JMO

Don't buy registered weapons.  Problem solved.  Or carry a cell phone. IMO, this risk is miniscule, whereas your evidence can be used against you.

[Knocker of rocks]

It mostly protects YOU to have a bill of sale. As a purchaser i Prefer to have one so that they cannot claim its stolen... As a seller if they had a CCP I would not think twice about selling without a bill of sale.

This.  I won't sell without a CCP or some other good guy credential.  The risk is that you could be selling to a prohibited person, even if you are doing so unknowingly.

But a CCP does not ensure that they are not a prohibited individual.  They could have gotten a felony or a DV subsequent to the CCP. 

[Blacktail Sniper]

The only way to be reasonably sure is to go through a dealer/ffl and pay (or have buyer pay) the transfer fee and have the instant background check done. 

Even that has proven to not be 100% reliable, but it takes it off you and puts it on the buyer/dealer.

[Knocker of rocks]

 

Checking for a CCP does not stop ineligible individuals, but does stop eligible people

[Fl0und3rz]

It mostly protects YOU to have a bill of sale. As a purchaser i Prefer to have one so that they cannot claim its stolen... As a seller if they had a CCP I would not think twice about selling without a bill of sale.

This.  I won't sell without a CCP or some other good guy credential.  The risk is that you could be selling to a prohibited person, even if you are doing so unknowingly.

But a CCP does not ensure that they are not a prohibited individual.  They could have gotten a felony or a DV subsequent to the CCP. 

Yes, I know.  But it virtually ensures that they are not a resident alien without a firearms ID, an illegal alien with a valid WA driver's license, a convicted felon lying to me about his status, or any number of other categories of people that have reason to lie about their status. Having a CCP indicates, to me, that they have some skin in the game - something to lose. Nothing ensures that they are not going to go out and mow down a bunch of people with a firearm I traded either.  It goes to what is the level of reasonableness of investigation/precautions in ensuring that I am not guilty of the crime of selling to a prohibited person. While admitting that I may be more risk adverse in this area, I am comfortable with that level of risk (subsequent DV or felony).

I we were able to access NICS for private transactions without all the FFL record keeping involved, I would do that.