Fishing for Native Steelhead

[idahohuntr]

Other than the fact that Steel Head are Sea Run Rainbows, what are the differences between a Rainbow and a Steel Head?

legally it's 20 inches.  Below 20 in a river where they could access the salt they are considered rainbows, over 20 and they are called steelhead.  They can breed with each other, and I've heard 10-15% of steelhead are spawned by resident trout that never went to sea.  When they go to sea they grow faster because they eat better--squid/shrimp/large baitfish vs bugs/minnows.  Some go to sea, some don't.  And when they come back, most go back to where they were spawned from, but some stray into different rivers. 

Good answer...the anadromous form can produce resident off-spring and vice-versa. 

[BigGoonTuna]

In my book they do.  That's why I say there's no true native "Steel Heads" anymore in certain areas.

the beef with that whole argument isn't that the fish aren't genetically pure to a certain drainage, but that hatchery fish are pretty lousy at reproducing in the wild.  once a fish spawns in the gravel, it's offspring are wild...but the odds are, those fish will never come back to the river.  if they do, they will spawn and recruit more offspring though, just at a much lower rate than fish that were wild to begin with.  it's natural selection in fast-forward in this case.

it's too bad that they don't reproduce like bass or perch, we wouldn't have to have this conversation.

[HUNT-HARD]

I sure hope that you punched your catch card before you took the time to take pictures!!!!

[Swatson]

Punch card?  What's a punch card    lol. On a serious note this has been a very informative discussion as I've been following along.  Definitely some guys on here that are much smarter and more knowledgeable about some of this stuff than me. It doesn't hurt my feelings if someone was bothered by what happened as I get it.  People get passionate about certain things, god knows I've gotten fired up about certain things on here as well! 

[Bullkllr]

Punch card?  What's a punch card    lol. On a serious note this has been a very informative discussion as I've been following along.  Definitely some guys on here that are much smarter and more knowledgeable about some of this stuff than me. It doesn't hurt my feelings if someone was bothered by what happened as I get it.  People get passionate about certain things, god knows I've gotten fired up about certain things on here as well!

It's all good, bro!  If nothing happened to spur discussion this would be a pretty worthless and boring forum.

This is topic very worthy of discussion. The more attention it gets the better imo!

[YoterHunter]

I've been reading this for awhile decided to put my two cents in . I'm over 50 and I've fished river sense I was a kid . A lot of these natives are not true nates . There hatchery fish that did not get clipped . Plus I have seen hatchery fish spon in river . So  a lot of your true natives are not even a native. A lot of rivers they don't clip all the fins on the fish so they will get more returns to the hatcherys. Look at the Columbia river if I emember right 3 tribes admitted to the state that they dident clip all the fins. So when it comes back it's a native to us but it's really a hatchery fish so the fish go up river to be netted. So taking the so called native is a bad thing . So fish exsperts how do you know what's what. :

[Bullkllr]

I've been reading this for awhile decided to put my two cents in . I'm over 50 and I've fished river sense I was a kid . A lot of these natives are not true nates . There hatchery fish that did not get clipped . Plus I have seen hatchery fish spon in river . So  a lot of your true natives are not even a native. A lot of rivers they don't clip all the fins on the fish so they will get more returns to the hatcherys. Look at the Columbia river if I emember right 3 tribes admitted to the state that they dident clip all the fins. So when it comes back it's a native to us but it's really a hatchery fish so the fish go up river to be netted. So taking the so called native is a bad thing . So fish exsperts how do you know what's what. :

To find out what the fish experts know about what's what, I might suggest going to them.
This link http://nativefishsociety.org/index.php/science-research/wild-vs-hatchery-salmonid-interactions/  connects to many studies and reports on the exact topic. It is a lot to sort through. And even though it is on the Native Fish Society website the research is independent. It's not all slanted to favor native fish proponents' opinions- but it is where the research is. I don't know of any "Anti-Native Fish Group" posting scientific data.

From the standpoint of a fisherman who has experienced a little and learned a little from the science (take it for what it's worth- but you seemed to be asking a sincere question so I'll do my best...), I would say what you mention in your post is pretty much true (in general). That said, I would like to point toward some possible exceptions in the case of Oly Pen steelhead.
(I'm over 50 and have been fishing rivers for as long as I can remember, too- for what it's worth).

Hatchery fish intrusion into native populations has been happening in some streams for over 100 years. The hatchery fish have impacts on the wilds by competing with them in the given habitat, as well as through interbreeding. It is generally considered fact that wild salmon and steelhead populations are impacted negatively wherever hatchery fish are present.

This has in part resulted in wild steelhead finding their way onto the Endangered Species List throughout the Puget Sound Basin, the Strait of Juan De Fuca drainages, all of South West Washington rivers, and all of the Columbia river tributaries in Washington (I'm covering only WA here-but you can throw in most streams in Ore. and all of Ida. and Cal. if you want). The only wild steelhead populations to so far avoid  ESA listing (and the restrictions that follow) are in a handful of streams on the Oly Pen. And those are the streams at issue in this recent discussion- they are the only ones in the entire region where wild steelhead sport harvest is still allowed.

Back to your point... in many areas where hatchery plants were made early and over a period of decades, combined with other impacts to the native fish (habitat and harvest, namely) it may indeed be difficult to find a true "native" fish or to separate the genetics of a hatchery fish from a wild-spawned fish in the same river.
Take the Cowlitz for example. Massive hatchery plants and dams built without fish passage have combined to nearly obliterate the wild fish. Some say they are gone completely- the state/feds claim some still exist and are trying to rebuild the wild run (which is required under ESA). This leaves sport-fishermen feeling stabbed in the back as hatchery plants are curtailed and the river is producing fish at something like 10% of what it did a decade or so ago.

Back to the Oly Pen streams... what has kept wild steelhead populations there more viable (and so far avoiding ESA listing) is the fact that the habitat conditions are generally better than elsewhere
(the headwaters of those rivers are all in ONP) and the fact that compared to other streams in Washington state, hatchery intrusion has not been as evident. Reasons for this include fewer rivers planted, a shorter history of plantings, plantings focused on the lower ends of the rivers, etc. Timing of returns/spawning is a factor too, but many consider the early-run native-component to be nearly gone as they show up at the same time as the (Chamber's creek stock) hatchery fish and are inter-bred and harvested at a higher rate than later returning wilds.
 
So yeah, I think you could make a case for the wild steelhead on the peninsula rivers being more genetically "native" than anywhere on the continent outside of BC and Alaska. That and the overwhelmingly bleak situation of surrounding wild populations makes treating them with care pretty important.

[chukar58]

"Native Fish Society" equals NO FISHING SOCIETY....... Enough said.

[Forks]

I've been reading this for awhile decided to put my two cents in . I'm over 50 and I've fished river sense I was a kid . A lot of these natives are not true nates . There hatchery fish that did not get clipped . Plus I have seen hatchery fish spon in river . So  a lot of your true natives are not even a native. A lot of rivers they don't clip all the fins on the fish so they will get more returns to the hatcherys. Look at the Columbia river if I emember right 3 tribes admitted to the state that they dident clip all the fins. So when it comes back it's a native to us but it's really a hatchery fish so the fish go up river to be netted. So taking the so called native is a bad thing . So fish exsperts how do you know what's what. :

Common practice everywhere. The upper Quinault hatchery, on the lake, only clips 10% of their fish. Right or wrong,  it's the only reason we are fishing in many systems including the ocean.

[Bullkllr]

"Native Fish Society" equals NO FISHING SOCIETY....... Enough said.

I see your point...More said.. they have a ton of independent research linked to their website. Cuz bein' informed iz impotent. I'm sure some of it reinforces their agenda, but I can vouch that some does not. It does represent some of the best science available. It might actually make sense, or even be true...

[chukar58]

Honestly... If the steelhead and salmon hatcheries were as evil as the Native Fish Society wants the public to believe most runs of salmon and steelhead along the west coast should be extinct.  The Wild Fish Society has purchased studies and research to fit into their agenda and to brainwash the public and politicians.   Close all the hatcheries and the closure of sport fishing for salmon and steelhead will be next.   A balance of naturally reproducing salmon and steelhead and hatchery reared fish is the solution to keep our fish runs healthy and productive.

[Bullkllr]

Honestly... If the steelhead and salmon hatcheries were as evil as the Native Fish Society wants the public to believe most runs of salmon and steelhead along the west coast should be extinct.  The Wild Fish Society has purchased studies and research to fit into their agenda and to brainwash the public and politicians.   Close all the hatcheries and the closure of sport fishing for salmon and steelhead will be next.  A balance of naturally reproducing salmon and steelhead and hatchery reared fish is the solution to keep our fish runs healthy and productive.

I couldn't agree more with that last idea.

So are you saying that wild steelhead/salmon being listed under the ESA- and the impacts on state hatchery practices because of that- is purely a conspiracy generated by the NFS who concocted the science to fit their agenda?... seems kinda far-fetched considering a lot of the independent science pre-dates the existence of the NFS.

And I'm not saying I'm buying whatever the NFS is selling by any means- but like I said- where is the "Hatchery Fish Society" linked data to compare it to?

As far as wild runs going extinct- I think you could find evidence that quite a few actually have... obviously not only due to hatchery fish displacing them.

[WSU]

The difficulty in the hatchery vs. wild fish debate is that we have screwed things up for so long it is now hard to go back.  If we quit planting hatchery fish there will be no fishing in a lot of places.  However, relying on hatchery fish is part of how we got to the screwed up position we are in.  One thing seems certain: continuing to do what we have done for the last 100+ years (rely on planting loads of hatchery fish) is going to get us more of the same: dwindling stocks of salmon and steelhead.

[snowpack]

The rivers that do allow retention have been quite busy lately.  One of the jokes is that if the sol duc is running low, just wait until all the boats are in and then it rises to a good, fishable level.  They call it March Madnes.  About 250 wild fish were reported caught to the fish checkers just last week (so whatever percent that actually represents).  I know there are a lot of guides from out of the area that advertise for the wild fish and then travel here in winter to bring clients from their other areas.  Lots that would not normally come out here.  Been seeing a lot of AK and MT license plates on rigs carrying rafts.  This year there was a lot more targeting of wild fish early on because the hatchery run was so dismal, so people just wanted anything to bite.  Although with WDFW closing nearly everything else around the state, where else are the people to go?

[deltaops]

Glad someone got a laugh out of my Steal Head spelling and the word SMELT instead of smolt.  Need to throw a little fun into the pot every once in a while.

So if steelhead are just searun rainbows, I am pretty sure steelhead would never go extinct unless we killed all the rainbows in the world. We may have some low numbers in WA Rivers but as long as we have rainbows we will have steelhead.