Can I use 209 primers with T7 to eliminate blowback hang fire issue?

[Brushbuster]

I have a Knight 50 Cal Disc Extreme that I am trying to get sighted in for my rapidly approaching New Mexico Muzzy Hunt. I wanted to try BH 209 powder because supposedly it was cleaner and would eliminate the need of swabbing the barrel between shots. (BH 209 is legal in NM)

I switched out the bolt for Full Plastic Jacket Ignition system that came with my gun and put in the standard 209 breech plug from Knight and went to the range. I loaded 100 grain by volume of BH 209 and used a Federal Shot shell No 209A primer with the red jacket. Right away noticed a slight delay from the time the cap fired and the “boom”.  I swabbed the barrel and the patches were just as dirty as with T7. I next ordered the extreme Vented 209 Muzzleloader Breech Plug which was supposed to reduce the blowback and went to the range today and fired 6 shots with no improvement. (One shot was a total misfire).
 

I now just want to go back to using T7. My question is can I just switch using the powder & stay with the 209 primer and breech plug or do I need to also go back to using no. 11 caps and appropriate breech plug that goes with it? Thanks for your input.

[JColony]

209's are hot primers.  They should fire T7 just fine.

[Sabotloader]

I have a Knight 50 Cal Disc Extreme that I am trying to get sighted in for my rapidly approaching New Mexico Muzzy Hunt. I wanted to try BH 209 powder because supposedly it was cleaner and would eliminate the need of swabbing the barrel between shots. (BH 209 is legal in NM)

Using BH 209 in your rifle will eliminate the need of patching between shots. 

I switched out the bolt for Full Plastic Jacket Ignition system that came with my gun and put in the standard 209 breech plug from Knight and went to the range. I loaded 100 grain by volume of BH 209 and used a Federal Shot shell No 209A primer with the red jacket. Right away noticed a slight delay from the time the cap fired and the “boom”.  I swabbed the barrel and the patches were just as dirty as with T7. I next ordered the extreme Vented 209 Muzzleloader Breech Plug which was supposed to reduce the blowback and went to the range today and fired 6 shots with no improvement. (One shot was a total misfire).
 

The FPJ plug will normally shoot BH 209 without a lot of problems but it will do noting for the cleanliness of the breech because the Red Plastic Jackets expand so much from the back pressure allowing gas to escape.  Shooting BH compounds the problem because it is a progressive burning powder and the blow back pressure last longer especially with heavier bullets and the volume of powder shot.

I now just want to go back to using T7. My question is can I just switch using the powder & stay with the 209 primer and breech plug or do I need to also go back to using no. 11 caps and appropriate breech plug that goes with it? Thanks for your input.[/size]

You can got back to shooting T7 with you current FPJ (Full Plastic Jacket Breech Plug) without any problems but the breech will continue to be dirty.  I would also suggest you switch primers to something cooler like a Winchester W209.  With the new vented breech plugs there is no need for the Mag primers - they just clog up the flash channel faster.

If you want to shoot BH or T7 will a clean breech you will need to shoot the NFPJ breech plug (Bare Primer)

These pictures might show some examples of the NFPJ plug.







I hope some of this information helps...

[Patarero]

What they said.  209 primers are plenty, if not too much for loose powder.  I have found that this combination: no 11 caps + t7 pellets + knight wolverine results in a cap to firing delaying.  I never had this issue with 209 primers and pellets out of this gun.  First time I shot it with a cap and pellets, there was a bit of a surprise when it went pop...boom. 

[Sabotloader]

What they said.  209 primers are plenty, if not too much for loose powder.  I have found that this combination: no 11 caps + t7 pellets + knight wolverine results in a cap to firing delaying.  I never had this issue with 209 primers and pellets out of this gun.  First time I shot it with a cap and pellets, there was a bit of a surprise when it went pop...boom.

You know that Hodgdon recommends 209 primers with T7 pellets...  They were never suppose to work with caps and T7 pellets - Unless you have a flat faced breech plug.  If you have a regular plug you will also have to use a #11 Mag cap to get ignition most of the time.

Knight has never made a cap breech plug for pellets in the open breech rifles.

The breech plug on the left is set for pellets of loose - all the others are for loose.

[Brushbuster]

I just got off the phone & ordered the kit from Knight

Bare 209 Primer Muzzleloader Conversion Kit
$38.99 Part# M900044
•   This Bare 209 Primer Muzzleloader Conversion Kit fits: Disc Extreme and Long Range Hunter.
•   To Shop For 209 Muzzleloader Conversion Breech Plugs For the KP1, Shadow, or Vision, Click Here.

I'll give it a try & report back.

A big thank you guys for taking the time to reply. This is one of the greatest things I love of this website. 

[Brushbuster]

Update: I received my Knight 209 Bare Breech Plug & Bolt adapter. The adapter is easy to install. It slides into a groove at the end of the 209 bolt. I had some problems installing the breech plug. The hex head cylinder wasn’t deep enough to screw the breech plug in all the way. Then I realized my gun came with 2 of these cylinders. After 2 hours of searching I found the second one & it worked perfectly to screw the Bare Breech in all the way. I popped a couple Winchester W209 primers and off to the range I went.
(There was a little learning curve putting a new cap in the modified bolt but once you master it the cap would easily fall off the bolt after firing as long as the bolt was back all the way.)

Below are 4 shots at 108 yards. Wow!! Great Group!! Only ran a windex/alcohol patch after every 3rd round. No hang or misfires. The cap, powder, & bullet went off together every time   
                             
I then took 4 shots at 140 yds and still got a good group. See below.
                           
Used 100 grains of BH 209 Powder, Winchester W209 primer & 290 grain Spit-Fire T-EZ FB with Black Crushed Rib Sabot in my Knight 50 caliber disc extreme.
Thank You Infinity Squared!! Sabotloader & others here for sharing your knowledge. New Mexico here I come.

[MarkyMark]

Good luck on your NM trip!

[Sabotloader]

Brushbuster

Shoot looking at those targets - I would suggest you go hunting!

[Brushbuster]

Thanks again guys! U2 on your E-side Deer Mark. BTW the JB bore paste, Krill oil & Montana Extreme treatment you & sabotloader recommended worked great. I now can easily get a bullet down the barrel. Have great 2014 season.