just lost my bear area

[Coastal_native]

Pope, I agree 100%.

[Coastal_native]

Certainly easier to operate a business without having to pay taxes, benefits etc... If it were level many tribal businesses would operate at a loss.   Interesting Delbert Wheeler owns the businesses but when ruled he owes taxes it is a tribal manner.

We're talking about governments.  They don't pay taxes, they collect them. Tribal casinos and enterprises are owned by tribal governments.  If the state wants to develop a business enterprise, who would it pay taxes to?  This is the biggest misconception out there.

Governments also form trade agreements and ratify rules governing trade.  Non-tax alcohol, tobacco and other various and sundry items to non-tribal individuals violate the free trade and commerce agreements that sovereign nations would hold.  For instance I got to BC and pay VAT and then can get that back.  The tribes want to play both sides of the coin and then scream sovereignty when it suits or will cost them.  Curious to know how much western tribes paid to support traffic improvements to the various tribal lands that generate revenue.

Review the gaming and tax compacts.

[bigtex]

So this land is now part of the reservation. We are going to see lots more land moved to no access no hunting entities as timber companies lose tax advantages.

No.

It is essentially just private land owned by the tribe. Not an actual reservation.

[JimmyHoffa]

So this land is now part of the reservation. We are going to see lots more land moved to no access no hunting entities as timber companies lose tax advantages.

No.

It is essentially just private land owned by the tribe. Not an actual reservation.

I think it has to be owned for seven years and then approved by Congress.  Is that right BigTex?

[bigtex]

So this land is now part of the reservation. We are going to see lots more land moved to no access no hunting entities as timber companies lose tax advantages.

No.

It is essentially just private land owned by the tribe. Not an actual reservation.

I think it has to be owned for seven years and then approved by Congress.  Is that right BigTex?

I don't know if there are any year specifics. However, it is not Congress that approves the reservation expansion but rather the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Basically the tribe will buy land then say hey BIA we want to give you this land, and in turn you will make it our reservation. BIA signs off and we now have an expanded reservation. You can thank a law enacted in 1934 for this.

[Coastal_native]

So this land is now part of the reservation. We are going to see lots more land moved to no access no hunting entities as timber companies lose tax advantages.

No.

It is essentially just private land owned by the tribe. Not an actual reservation.

I think it has to be owned for seven years and then approved by Congress.  Is that right BigTex?

Way more hoops to jump through.  I've navigated my way through a couple small off reservation fee-to-trust conversions and it ain't easy...especially since gaming.  Even it is allowed to be taken in to trust, it's not necessarily an Indian reservation, just tribal trust land.

[longwalker]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

No, anyone to hope for that is an idiot. The problem is the duel citisanship. If you want your own nation you should need a passport to leave it and pay the taxes of mine when dealing in it.

[trophyhunt]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

Honestly, you probably don't want the answer to that.  That's my angry response, But you guys are so proud to call yourselves a different nation I also think you should have passports and should leave through a check point.  Lets be completly honest here, Your tribes in our state and others are the example of "You CAN have your cake and eat it to".  The response from littlejosie is probably how most of us feel around a campfire, but on this forum, most will try not to offend in public. I have a hard time holding back myself. 

[Coastal_native]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

No, anyone to hope for that is an idiot. The problem is the duel citisanship. If you want your own nation you should need a passport to leave it and pay the taxes of mine when dealing in it.

We do pay taxes.  Federal income and state sales.  In certain cases, sales tax exemptions may occur for good and services delivered or work performed on the reservation. Passports to enter and leave Indian Reservations wouldn't be practical in my opinion.

[liljozie495]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

Honestly, you probably don't want the answer to that.  That's my angry response, But you guys are so proud to call yourselves a different nation I also think you should have passports and should leave through a check point.  Lets be completly honest here, Your tribes in our state and others are the example of "You CAN have your cake and eat it to".  The response from littlejosie is probably how most of us feel around a campfire, but on this forum, most will try not to offend in public. I have a hard time holding back myself.

I don't care if anyone gets offended, I speak what's on my mind heck it's a forum on the Internet freedom of speach just like there apparent freedom to "hunt" or freedom "to leave there res." trophy how u been man?

[Coastal_native]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

Honestly, you probably don't want the answer to that.  That's my angry response, But you guys are so proud to call yourselves a different nation I also think you should have passports and should leave through a check point.  Lets be completly honest here, Your tribes in our state and others are the example of "You CAN have your cake and eat it to".  The response from littlejosie is probably how most of us feel around a campfire, but on this forum, most will try not to offend in public. I have a hard time holding back myself.

That's all fine, but what Indians had vs. what they had to give up, I don't think that qualifies as "having their cake and eating it too".  The treaties were a major compromise for the tribes and a minor compromise for the US government.  I think you are in a very, very small minority of US citizens who's lives are impacted (arguably) by treaties.

[trophyhunt]

I agree I am impacted very little by Indians, but that's only because I'm a hunter who cares about the amimals.  If I wasn't a hunter I probably wouldn't think about the tribes at all.  I think the gov was stupid in giving up what they did in those treaties regarding the fish, wildlife and souvern crap.  We really didn't need to go the treaty route, it shouldn't have went that way.  The treaty just kept the indians from being wiped out, other wise the battle would have just gone on a little longer and the inevitable would have happened.  Someone always is gonna lose in war, we wern't going to turn around and go back to Europe.  And there is evidence out there that proves your ancestor's may have not been here first, and if that's the case then those treaties should be abolished.  I'm not a racist hater, I just can't stand the nations being treated differently in our USA.  This wedge between tribes and non natives will always continue, atleast until we are all treated the same.  Which you guys will never allow.

[Coastal_native]

I agree I am impacted very little by Indians, but that's only because I'm a hunter who cares about the amimals.  If I wasn't a hunter I probably wouldn't think about the tribes at all.  I think the gov was stupid in giving up what they did in those treaties regarding the fish, wildlife and souvern crap.  We really didn't need to go the treaty route, it shouldn't have went that way.  The treaty just kept the indians from being wiped out, other wise the battle would have just gone on a little longer and the inevitable would have happened.  Someone always is gonna lose in war, we wern't going to turn around and go back to Europe.  And there is evidence out there that proves your ancestor's may have not been here first, and if that's the case then those treaties should be abolished.  I'm not a racist hater, I just can't stand the nations being treated differently in our USA.  This wedge between tribes and non natives will always continue, atleast until we are all treated the same.  Which you guys will never allow.

We want our agreement to continue to be honored, you want it to be nullified.  Which is the party that is unwilling to compromise in that scenario?...given that the treaties are already a result of compromise.

Given what the founders of this country were trying to accomplish, what other scenario would've been acceptable as the foundation of this country's history other than reaching some form of peace with its current inhabitants?  Would the US be able to stand behind its principles if its first order of business was to commit genocide during colonization?  I understand there is a history of civilizations doing just that, but few if any had the same mission as the founders of this country.  You should be proud and thankful of the outcome.

[westsidehntr]

Indians nowadays claiming they lost their way of life is the same as the blacks saying they have been pressed down by slavery. Buncha bs.

[longwalker]

[/

Assimilationist into the United States of America would have been best for all parties. All the reservations and treaties have done is hold the Indian back. With the history of segrigation and poverty on the reservations can you honestly say it wouldn't have been better to just become part of most powerful prosperous nation on Earth as apposed to creating hundred of small impoverished ones where gambling,gill netting and un regulated hunting is legal ? Think Ida wanted to rip he bandaid off fast and be done with back then. But enjoy your treaty ....